Brighton and Hove to become 20mph city (From The Argus)
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Brighton and Hove to become 20mph city
11:30am Friday 27th April 2012 in News By Tim Ridgway, Local government reporter
Brighton and Hove is set to become a 20mph city within four years.
Every residential road in the city, apart from the main routes, will have the restrictions introduced by Brighton and Hove City Council.
This means outlying areas including Woodingdean, Saltdean, Patcham and Portslade will all be included in the plans.
The Green administration said the scheme, which police have warned will have to be self-enforcing, will help improve road safety, reduce air pollution and encourage more people to use sustainable transport.
But opposition councillors claim a blanket ban is “over the top”, adding the restrictions will be unenforceable.
Police have warned the scheme will have to be self-enforcing – and that if drivers do not stick to the limit the council will have to invest in traffic calming measures to force them to.
Ian Davey, the council’s cabinet member for transport, said it was consulting on the scheme in response to residents’ requests.
Coun Davey said: “The benefits of a citywide scheme include potentially fewer collisions and less severe collisions while a consistent limit is likely to lead to better compliance, reduced street clutter and safer streets.
If backed in a consultation of thousands of homes, the scheme would take place in stages. The local authority believes it scheme will cost £1.5 million and it is hoped all the work should be complete in the next three to four years.
The widespread zones will be marked with signs and road markings but will not initially include speed bumps or other traffic calming measures.
It was recently revealed a similar city-wide zone in Manchester could cost up to £41 million.
Conservative councillor Geoffrey Theobald said: “We support 20mph zones in certain locations, especially around schools and in residential streets, and indeed, we introduced many of these when we were in administration.
“However, we have consistently argued that the Greens’ blanket citywide approach is over the top.
“It will be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce and my concern is that by slowing everything down it will just end up causing more congestion.”
Labour group leader Gill Mitchell said: “Whilst we fully support 20mph zones we have serious questions as to how the Greens propose to implement the plan.
“They are planning to spend £1.5 million on a blanket city-wide speed reduction scheme based on ‘lines and signs’ only, a scheme that cannot be enforced."
If approved on Friday, consultation is expected to begin in the second week of June and run for about six weeks.
Comments(164)
Kate234
says...
11:49am Fri 27 Apr 12
hogarth123
says...
11:58am Fri 27 Apr 12
Who ever voted for them ?
Martha Gunn
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12:00pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Spanners
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12:02pm Fri 27 Apr 12
In a nutshell- a total utter waste of £1.5m in cash strapped times
I
Barry Trotter
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12:07pm Fri 27 Apr 12
AGT999
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12:14pm Fri 27 Apr 12
HOVEPARKRESIDENT
says...
12:14pm Fri 27 Apr 12
One thing is for sure they won't get in again once everybody has seen what a complete and utter mess they are going to make of Brighton. Problem is it will be too late. The shops will be closed the tourists would have left for ever and all the roads will be turned into organic allotments. Idiots!!!
Phani Tikkala
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12:16pm Fri 27 Apr 12
VOTE OUT THE GREENS
bug eye
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12:19pm Fri 27 Apr 12
no sensible driver exceeds a safe speed in residential streets, our liberties and free will and self responsibility is being taken away by the Greens. i hope the opposition parties will overrule such nonsense. it is now looking bad on the oppositions for their future that they are not bringing in a vote of no confidence.
jagiwatch
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12:25pm Fri 27 Apr 12
GREENS WILL NOT GET MY VOTE
nairtselcyc
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12:29pm Fri 27 Apr 12
kopite_rob
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12:29pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Not sure of my vehicles fuel consumption at 20mph!
Mark63
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12:31pm Fri 27 Apr 12
- 20mph speed limits
- £20 to park for a day
- happy for travellers to park up just about anywhere - even in RESIDENTIAL streets!
- Council tax hike (thankfully scrapped due to pressure)
Do they want this to become a ghost town?!? Get a grip!
nairtselcyc
says...
12:34pm Fri 27 Apr 12
kopite_rob wrote:Fuel consumption should be no worse than in 30mph limit. Cars in 18mph town in Germany used less fuel than before (researched fact). Also door-to-door driving times barely affected (you can google for research on this topic)
Would it not make more sense to impose 20mph limits round schools, which COULD be enforced by the Police and at a far lesser cost in traffic management measures than £1.5M.
Not sure of my vehicles fuel consumption at 20mph!
And scheme will pay for itself pretty quickly through reduction in cost of treating crash victims. I just hope police are more willing to enforce than in Portsmouth and Cambridge otherwise this will indeed be a missed opportunity.
disrember
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12:34pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I live near a primary school and struggle to understand why I am need to do 20mph at 11pm evening, because theres a school on the road.
s&k
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12:38pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
12:39pm Fri 27 Apr 12
) streets. There are FAR more important things to spend our money on.
Anyway, we know it's being proposed for dogmatic and ideological reason only. You do get the feeling that if the government re-introduced the Red Flag Act the Greens would say it was a step in the right direction but it didn't go far enough.
chrisso
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12:49pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Falstaff
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12:49pm Fri 27 Apr 12
It seems the Greens really do not want to win the next local elections.
Mr_Tom
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12:51pm Fri 27 Apr 12
yet again the Greens showing they are way out of their depth when it comes to making the right decisions for a busy town such as Brighton..
falmer seagull
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12:57pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I trust that taxis and buses will also be slowed down, thus making a poorer public transport system!!!!!! Or buses overtaking cars now there's safety.
What a complete load of idiots!
nairtselcyc
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12:59pm Fri 27 Apr 12
disrember wrote:I see your point, but there are benefits to 20mph even at night time. It makes the street quieter and more pleasant for nearby homes. Children might be in bed but others are out and about.
I find this all just a bit bonkers myself.
I live near a primary school and struggle to understand why I am need to do 20mph at 11pm evening, because theres a school on the road.
To those saying it's a waste of money... this is demonstrably untrue. Much more money is today being wasted and lives ruined by the cost of collisions in 30mph roads.
Pollution and congestion will both be reduced--proven by research.
Final point: if you think this is a bad idea ask anyone living on a 20mph street today if they want the speed limit changed to 30mph. I'm sure you'll not find many honest people who would.
HJarrs
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1:01pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I live in a self-regulating 20mph zone; the world has not ended, the vast majority of drivers are responsible enough to obey the speed limit, journey times are unaffected and road safety has been improved.
Many communities will be fed up with people driving too fast past their front doors and I bet that for every petrol head that believes they have a right to carve up the road as they like, there will be ten people that want a more sensible balance and an improvement in road safety.
The introduction of a 20mph limit will not affect journey times as the major routes will remain as they are, which is a shame as the centre of B&H really should have a lot more shared space roads to encourage footfall, increase business and reduce accidents.
Spanners
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1:02pm Fri 27 Apr 12
nairtselcyc wrote:"To those saying it's a waste of money... this is demonstrably untrue. Much more money is today being wasted and lives ruined by the cost of collisions in 30mph roads." Really, please show us the demonstrative, statistical and factual evidence
disrember wrote: I find this all just a bit bonkers myself. I live near a primary school and struggle to understand why I am need to do 20mph at 11pm evening, because theres a school on the road.I see your point, but there are benefits to 20mph even at night time. It makes the street quieter and more pleasant for nearby homes. Children might be in bed but others are out and about. To those saying it's a waste of money... this is demonstrably untrue. Much more money is today being wasted and lives ruined by the cost of collisions in 30mph roads. Pollution and congestion will both be reduced--proven by research. Final point: if you think this is a bad idea ask anyone living on a 20mph street today if they want the speed limit changed to 30mph. I'm sure you'll not find many honest people who would.
Leon
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1:04pm Fri 27 Apr 12
If the Greens insist on 20mph zones, which I'm sure they will, then why not keep trunk roads as a 30 and side roads and school zones as 20.
I was driving past the Greyhound stadium the other day (20 mph limit) and the idiot in front was doing 17 - just to be sure. Then if you hang a left off the trunk road it becomes a 30 again?? Bonkers!!!
Busterblister
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1:08pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Can I suggest the £1.5m would be better spent on education in schools? When I grew up we were bombarded with info about how to cross the road safely, never to chase a ball into the road etc. The quality of road crossing in B&H is appalling, and not helped by people wearing music players. Unfortunately for many, looking both ways and obeying traffic signals is seen as uncool, and so they suffer for it. No-one can beat the laws of physics, and car drivers reflexes and cars braking performance can only do so much.
fredaj
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1:10pm Fri 27 Apr 12
nairtselcyc
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1:11pm Fri 27 Apr 12
From Worthing 20mph campaign (backed by stats): "On average, Worthing suffers 2 fatalities, 37 serious injuries and 239 slight injuries EVERY year on its roads. Official Department for Transport costings value this at over £12 million, so if this figure was reduced by just 8% then the scheme would pay for itself in less than four and a half months."
I challenge anyone to come up with a cost-benefit analysis of 20mph vs 30mph that proves otherwise.
Rod King - 20's Plenty for Us
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1:14pm Fri 27 Apr 12
There's no need for speed to just get you to the next traffic queue a few seconds earlier. 20mph limits make sense for everyone.
Well done Brighton & Hove.
PaulOckenden
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1:21pm Fri 27 Apr 12
They are slowly killing Brighton.
Hooitness
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1:23pm Fri 27 Apr 12
This is good news for us pedestrians. The irate comments on here cements that belief.
seagullsovergrimsby
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1:32pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PaulOckenden
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1:34pm Fri 27 Apr 12
sdhgfhfuyt
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1:35pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Hooitness wrote:What about the cost of policing, which will inevitably spiral as plod look for easy pickings ? These councillors aren't even from Brighton!
I've never lived in a town with such an awful standard of driver. Too many of you treat your cars like an extension of your living rooms. This is good news for us pedestrians. The irate comments on here cements that belief.
Spx
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1:39pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PJW Brighton
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1:42pm Fri 27 Apr 12
derekhunt
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1:42pm Fri 27 Apr 12
The 20 mph sighs on the road up by Cardinal Newman school are blue background which are technically a minimum speed sign.
Think I'd rather see the money spent on improving the road surfaces myself
Number Six
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1:42pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Leon wrote:You think that that's bonkers?
City wide blanket 20 MPH zone - NO THANKS!!! If the Greens insist on 20mph zones, which I'm sure they will, then why not keep trunk roads as a 30 and side roads and school zones as 20. I was driving past the Greyhound stadium the other day (20 mph limit) and the idiot in front was doing 17 - just to be sure. Then if you hang a left off the trunk road it becomes a 30 again?? Bonkers!!!
Last month I drove down Coldean Lane (40mph) and turned right into Lewes Road (now 30mph)
Can someone expalin the logic of a wide, dual carriageway being 30mph while a single carriageway is 40mph
pete
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1:48pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PJW Brighton wrote:Oh pur-lease.
This makes perfect sense. The brainless ones in the earlier postings dismissing this as a green loony idea obviously don't get out much. Local authorities of all parties elsewhere in the U.K., and all over Europe are taking this approach. It saves lives, cuts polution and makes communities into shared spaces.
poorcarowner
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1:57pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Won't make that mistake again.
bloggs551
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2:00pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PJW Brighton
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2:04pm Fri 27 Apr 12
poorcarowner wrote:It won't increase traffic. At present cars in residential areas speed up and slow down dramatically. The higher speed limits are seen as targets to acheive rather than maximum speeds. 20mph zones simply smooth that out. Most US residential areas have this or a 25mph limit.
As a business owner with two vehicles I constantly drive in and around the City centre. The 20mph speed limit will undoubtably create more traffic woes and will just add to the frustration of the vehicle driver who, already, is made to feel like a criminal. I fully agree with these kind of limits around schools but a blanket approach I feel is rediculous. I'm sure it won't be long until we are further taxed with a congestion charge for the City centre. Maybe some of this money should go on educating pedestrians on how to cross the road correctly, I loose count of the amount of times people on mobile phones or with head phones walk straight into the road without looking. We are having common sense ripped from our lives and forced into a Nanny state. I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted Green in the last elections.
Won't make that mistake again.
monkeymoo
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2:17pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I can do about 30mph on my bicycle through town. Not stopping at any red lights, and i don't need insurance or a number plate!
The Green party gets my vote.xx
MzEden1
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2:21pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Spanners
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2:45pm Fri 27 Apr 12
nairtselcyc wrote:What you have come up with a some statistics on road incidents in Worthing (which by the way includes roads that have national speed limits and not just 30mph). What you have not shown is that a reduction to 20 mph has any effect on those stats. Yes, you can post stats that show that a child hit a 30 will likley die and a child hit a 20 will likley survive. All this is based on the assumption that drivers actually adhere to the limits. Which they won't as the whole thing is totally unenforceable. If actually your £12m costs dont come down at all then all youve achieved is to chuck another £1.5m down the hole. And that 12m is wrong anyway as it includes costs for smash ups in all speed limits not just 30mph. I'm not saying there is not a place for 20 limits - as others have stated near schools and so forth - but blanket makes no sense
"please show us the demonstrative, statistical and factual evidence" From Worthing 20mph campaign (backed by stats): "On average, Worthing suffers 2 fatalities, 37 serious injuries and 239 slight injuries EVERY year on its roads. Official Department for Transport costings value this at over £12 million, so if this figure was reduced by just 8% then the scheme would pay for itself in less than four and a half months." I challenge anyone to come up with a cost-benefit analysis of 20mph vs 30mph that proves otherwise.
PJW Brighton
says...
3:09pm Fri 27 Apr 12
om/watch?v=ZBJr7dU_4
zI
wietraurig
says...
3:17pm Fri 27 Apr 12
It's also worth noting that it will be subject to a consultation of residents of the areas in question, so will only go ahead if they want it. If they do want it, given that that's where they live, I think it's perfectly reasonable for their interests to take precedence over the (judging by the posts on here) rather selfish motorists who drive dangerously through the residential areas.
HJarrs
says...
3:51pm Fri 27 Apr 12
wietraurig wrote:Although it wont be enforced by the police, the vast majority of motorists being responsible adults will adhere to the speed limit as people do in my area and as I do. While you will never stop the minority spoilt selfish petrol heads speeding altogether they can, as a previous poster pointed out, only drive as fast as the car infront.
This sounds like an excellent idea. Shame it excludes the main routes, many of which are also "residential". It should be properly enforced though; looking at the comments on here, there is a fair proportion of the driving population that will ignore the 20mph limit otherwise. It's also worth noting that it will be subject to a consultation of residents of the areas in question, so will only go ahead if they want it. If they do want it, given that that's where they live, I think it's perfectly reasonable for their interests to take precedence over the (judging by the posts on here) rather selfish motorists who drive dangerously through the residential areas.
HJarrs
says...
3:53pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Spanners wrote:The paper version quotes accident reduction statistics of between 5-10% for similar schemes. If this is so, then it would be negligent to not introduce the new 20mph limit.
nairtselcyc wrote: "please show us the demonstrative, statistical and factual evidence" From Worthing 20mph campaign (backed by stats): "On average, Worthing suffers 2 fatalities, 37 serious injuries and 239 slight injuries EVERY year on its roads. Official Department for Transport costings value this at over £12 million, so if this figure was reduced by just 8% then the scheme would pay for itself in less than four and a half months." I challenge anyone to come up with a cost-benefit analysis of 20mph vs 30mph that proves otherwise.What you have come up with a some statistics on road incidents in Worthing (which by the way includes roads that have national speed limits and not just 30mph). What you have not shown is that a reduction to 20 mph has any effect on those stats. Yes, you can post stats that show that a child hit a 30 will likley die and a child hit a 20 will likley survive. All this is based on the assumption that drivers actually adhere to the limits. Which they won't as the whole thing is totally unenforceable. If actually your £12m costs dont come down at all then all youve achieved is to chuck another £1.5m down the hole. And that 12m is wrong anyway as it includes costs for smash ups in all speed limits not just 30mph. I'm not saying there is not a place for 20 limits - as others have stated near schools and so forth - but blanket makes no sense
HJarrs
says...
3:55pm Fri 27 Apr 12
monkeymoo wrote:If you can do 30mph on your bike you should be in the Olympics team!
Brighton is just a stupid "wannabe" city anyway. Who really cares about its speed limits (yes limits, not targets!). I can do about 30mph on my bicycle through town. Not stopping at any red lights, and i don't need insurance or a number plate! The Green party gets my vote.xx
falmer seagull
says...
3:57pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Car owner's subsidise central government via petrol duty and road fund licence, now possibly toll roads.
In the city, higher parking charges, where meters have spread like a malignant disease subsidise the Council Tax!
Will Tourists bother to come to Brighton any more, I doubt it!
Think again.
hawksmoor
says...
3:57pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PJW Brighton wrote:Nice try PJW but there is no reasoning with the petrolheads who think the city is being run for their benefit. Car owners are a minority in this city but they think every available inch should be devoted to roads, speed and parking no matter what the cost to everyone else. They bleat about being persecuted without ever considering the costs to the NHS of accidents, the damage to the environment they cause, the pulverisation of the pavements as they drive over them and park on them, the polluted air, noise and the general ugliness of a city obsessed with maximising on-street parking. But like most spoilt, self obsessed minorities, it's all about them.
This makes perfect sense. The brainless ones in the earlier postings dismissing this as a green loony idea obviously don't get out much. Local authorities of all parties elsewhere in the U.K., and all over Europe are taking this approach. It saves lives, cuts polution and makes communities into shared spaces.
falmer seagull
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4:08pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wendywoodlandh
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4:11pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wendywoodlandh
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4:11pm Fri 27 Apr 12
le mez
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4:12pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Mark63
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4:15pm Fri 27 Apr 12
wietraurig wrote:I'd like to live in the 21st Century, not some forgotten backwater with 19th century ideals... what next - a green party member walking in front of each car with a flag?!
This sounds like an excellent idea. Shame it excludes the main routes, many of which are also "residential". It should be properly enforced though; looking at the comments on here, there is a fair proportion of the driving population that will ignore the 20mph limit otherwise. It's also worth noting that it will be subject to a consultation of residents of the areas in question, so will only go ahead if they want it. If they do want it, given that that's where they live, I think it's perfectly reasonable for their interests to take precedence over the (judging by the posts on here) rather selfish motorists who drive dangerously through the residential areas.
Be proud of the past but stop trying to recreate it...
No doubt the bus drivers will continue tearing around the streets, exempt from all the rules...
If they have money to waste on this, they can reduce the criminal parking fees, reduce the wholly under-used cycle lanes and provide what visitors and residents would best use and want - a fast route in, a fast route out and somewhere cheap, easy and accessible to park!
This is supposed to be a city after all!
freewheelingdom
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4:23pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wooders22
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4:27pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wooders22
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4:27pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wooders22
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4:32pm Fri 27 Apr 12
HJarrs
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4:40pm Fri 27 Apr 12
falmer seagull wrote:I thought non-car drivers did pay their dues, children must be chaperoned by their parents as the roads are too dangerous to cross, loads of health related problems, the lives lost or blighted by accidents and don't forget that raid maintenance and operation is from council tax.
Its about time non car drivers paid their dues. Car owner's subsidise central government via petrol duty and road fund licence, now possibly toll roads. In the city, higher parking charges, where meters have spread like a malignant disease subsidise the Council Tax! Will Tourists bother to come to Brighton any more, I doubt it! Think again.
NickBtn
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4:40pm Fri 27 Apr 12
This is a pity as they offered so much hope but have delivered impractical solutions based often on the "stick" (like increased parking charges) rather than the "carrot"
Where are the plans for park and ride? Where are the plans to encourage tourists to visit rather than push them away? Where are the plans to reduce congestion and pollution (rather than increase it like the Lewes Road plans - something that mainly works to be broken....)
HJarrs
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4:45pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wooders22
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4:45pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Phani Tikkala
says...
4:49pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Imagine how long it will take to get to Holmbush Tescos at 20mph!!
HJarrs
says...
4:54pm Fri 27 Apr 12
NickBtn wrote:Well that beats all; you of all people saying "they offered so much hope" when you spent months having a personal go at Caroline Lucas!
Luckily this will never happen as the greens will be voted out within this timescale This is a pity as they offered so much hope but have delivered impractical solutions based often on the "stick" (like increased parking charges) rather than the "carrot" Where are the plans for park and ride? Where are the plans to encourage tourists to visit rather than push them away? Where are the plans to reduce congestion and pollution (rather than increase it like the Lewes Road plans - something that mainly works to be broken....)
You might have noticed Labour group leader Gill Mitchell jumping on the bandwagon and not only would they do what the Greens are proposing, but spend even more money! Even Tories are proposing an extension of 20mph limits.
Whatever happens and whoever is in power, 20mph zones will continue to spread and hwever impliments them will not lose votes as they will be locally popular. Try taking them away!
cancelaccount
says...
4:55pm Fri 27 Apr 12
monkeymoo wrote:you are a eedjit!! you admit that you have committed a road traffic offence (Running red lights) and are proud of it?
Brighton is just a stupid "wannabe" city anyway. Who really cares about its speed limits (yes limits, not targets!). I can do about 30mph on my bicycle through town. Not stopping at any red lights, and i don't need insurance or a number plate! The Green party gets my vote.xx
you probably cycle on the pavement too..
what I would expect from a supporter of the Greens- self righteous eedjit!
HJarrs
says...
4:56pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Phani Tikkala wrote:Read the article. The Old Shoreham Rd. will be unaffected. It is residential areas.
The Old Shoreham Road all the way to The Slade is slow enough at the new "Green" 30mph. Imagine how long it will take to get to Holmbush Tescos at 20mph!!
HJarrs
says...
5:00pm Fri 27 Apr 12
cancelaccount wrote:Seemed to be a certain degree of irony in the monkeymoo comment.
monkeymoo wrote: Brighton is just a stupid "wannabe" city anyway. Who really cares about its speed limits (yes limits, not targets!). I can do about 30mph on my bicycle through town. Not stopping at any red lights, and i don't need insurance or a number plate! The Green party gets my vote.xxyou are a eedjit!! you admit that you have committed a road traffic offence (Running red lights) and are proud of it? you probably cycle on the pavement too.. what I would expect from a supporter of the Greens- self righteous eedjit!
The self-righteousness seems to be coming from the me, me me's who think it is their right to tear around residential streets with no regard to anyone else.
Hovite
says...
5:07pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Having to do 20mph in fourth gear is far from eco friendly and if everyone used the 2 second rule with tailgating made illegal, the traffic would maintain a healthy speed of 25mph in an economical and healthy gear.
Might have to buy myself a horse, at least if I got done for speeding I could blame the horse for it.
myselfishgenes
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5:08pm Fri 27 Apr 12
By the way, I don't think direct enforcement by the police is necessary, if you have an accident and are doing over 20mph then you are deemed at least partly to blame.
Wooders22
says...
5:20pm Fri 27 Apr 12
http://www.goway.com
/africa/afr_img/safr
ica/palace-of-lost-c
ity600.jpg
rustypegs
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5:39pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Thumper Hove
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6:05pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Has the Greens said how they will enforce UFO's staying within the 20mph limit, perhaps this is something loony Lucas can comment on?
NickBtn
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6:18pm Fri 27 Apr 12
HJarrs wrote:I'm not sure where you have seen me having a "personal go at Caroline Lucas" that certainly isn't the case
NickBtn wrote:Well that beats all; you of all people saying "they offered so much hope" when you spent months having a personal go at Caroline Lucas!
Luckily this will never happen as the greens will be voted out within this timescale This is a pity as they offered so much hope but have delivered impractical solutions based often on the "stick" (like increased parking charges) rather than the "carrot" Where are the plans for park and ride? Where are the plans to encourage tourists to visit rather than push them away? Where are the plans to reduce congestion and pollution (rather than increase it like the Lewes Road plans - something that mainly works to be broken....)
You might have noticed Labour group leader Gill Mitchell jumping on the bandwagon and not only would they do what the Greens are proposing, but spend even more money! Even Tories are proposing an extension of 20mph limits.
Whatever happens and whoever is in power, 20mph zones will continue to spread and hwever impliments them will not lose votes as they will be locally popular. Try taking them away!
In the past I have supported green groups (I have supported centre for alternative technology for over 20 years) and also voted green.
However the green led council has disillusioned me. I hoped for practical, green minded solutions. Instead it's just extreme and impractical ideas. Yes, 20 mph in key danger areas like schools is a good idea. Yes, some parking charge changes to match supply and demand. Yes, improvements to gyratory. But what we've got takes the sensible and makes mad. We don't need £20 tourist scaring parking charges, Lewes Road full of congestion or 20mph everywhere.... That's why I won't be voting green again - and I don't think I'll be alone....
Morpheus
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6:29pm Fri 27 Apr 12
bogs
says...
6:33pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I drove along the seafront today about 4pm, its a nice sunny day. It was dead! No cars parked, no traffic jams. Its like central London now. Only rich people can afford to drive into town and park, wonderful. Long may it continue. The stupid greens are making my life better by default. I shall get the 4x4 out much more often now.
Hovite
says...
6:37pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Wooders22 wrote:Good spot
Brighton pavilion and surrounding area after 10 years of green party
http://www.goway.com
/africa/afr_img/safr
ica/palace-of-lost-c
ity600.jpg
Dave At Home
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6:52pm Fri 27 Apr 12
s&k wrote:Those devices cannot record speed less than 30mph, so it is unenforceable.
Without speed cameras or police with hand held devices it's unenforcible. But in built-up areas it's a noble idea.
This council is mad, time to sell up and move on I am afraid.
george smith
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6:58pm Fri 27 Apr 12
bigandugly wrote:What is really odd is they mostly live in the Hanover area, which is one of the most densily populated in Europe
Right on Wooders22 - F**k off green party. Go and live in the forest, hug trees and eat berries all day. It's about all you're good for.
Stu
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6:59pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Bye bye Greens though!
cvs
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7:07pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Joshiman
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7:28pm Fri 27 Apr 12
We have become the laughing stock of the save the planet greenie world.Next elections.Bye bye and restart your looney party in Belgium.
fedupwithgreens
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7:35pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Brightonlad86
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7:36pm Fri 27 Apr 12
BAD DRIVERS!!!
Most bad drivers will ignore speed limits, road/warning signs etc etc... Will changing the speed
limit, which will cause more congestion as cars take longer to get to their destination, really make a positive difference?
IMO No.
In an ideal world everyone would use the roads properly. Cars, cyclists, pedestrians, taxis, buses.... (u get the point) would not have accidents as would be traveling safely. If everyone done this there would be no need for any speed limits as common would keep you safe.
Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world. People will not alway abide by the law.
Personally I think the money should be spent on ANPR camerers to identify illegal drivers etc as they drive into the city. Then have a 'response team' to go out and give them a ticket!!
Terry Hudson
says...
7:43pm Fri 27 Apr 12
So what are they doing out at 3am in the morning? Because any speed limit is 24/7 X 365 days a year.
This is the time when the police will be most vigilant. Also there are now speed cameras dedicated to enforcing 20mph limits.
In 1930 the 20mph speed limit was abandoned for being out-dated and this is when many cars still had brakes operated by cables!
Besides creating more gridlock, all the tests I have seen, show that 20mph speed limits create more pollution. Free flowing traffic cuts pollution, but that does not meet the political agenda.
chattychatty1
says...
7:53pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I will vote for Greens again and again for this sort of sensible measured approach and for the way they are proficiently running the council for us all. Thank you Greens!
Sussex jim
says...
8:01pm Fri 27 Apr 12
If a 20 limit is mandatory, what can I do about the light truck up my chuff driven by an inexperienced driver on minimum wage who has been given an impractical number of deliveries to make during his working day?
vybertastic
says...
8:08pm Fri 27 Apr 12
No cars on the road expect buses in 6 years through increasing premiums for individuals in Brighton alone?
Hope that is not idea in someone's back pocket hey. ...
Feel like getting my license was a waste of time :(
hubby
says...
8:09pm Fri 27 Apr 12
rustypegs wrote:I have to agree.
What a fantastic decision,we will have much safer roads at long last,power to the greens!
Someone has to start saving this planet of ours.
4x4's will be obsloete in five years time.
Fight Back
says...
8:10pm Fri 27 Apr 12
HJarrs
says...
8:15pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Fight Back wrote:Course you will, that is because you are selfish.
Well if it does come in ( and I doubt people will be stupid enough to vote for it ) I'll simply ignore it and continue to drive at 30mph.
HJarrs
says...
8:26pm Fri 27 Apr 12
NickBtn wrote:I am sorry that you feel disollutioned, I think the parking decision was wrong and I am glad it is to be reviewed. However, you can hardly call a roll out of 20mph zones in residential areas extreme especially when they have already been introduced over large parts of B&H with public support by both Labour, Conservative and Green administrations. Nor is modal shift on Lewes road extreme, it is a pragmatic scheme doing no more than following the good practice tha can be found in many leading European cities.
HJarrs wrote:I'm not sure where you have seen me having a "personal go at Caroline Lucas" that certainly isn't the case In the past I have supported green groups (I have supported centre for alternative technology for over 20 years) and also voted green. However the green led council has disillusioned me. I hoped for practical, green minded solutions. Instead it's just extreme and impractical ideas. Yes, 20 mph in key danger areas like schools is a good idea. Yes, some parking charge changes to match supply and demand. Yes, improvements to gyratory. But what we've got takes the sensible and makes mad. We don't need £20 tourist scaring parking charges, Lewes Road full of congestion or 20mph everywhere.... That's why I won't be voting green again - and I don't think I'll be alone....NickBtn wrote: Luckily this will never happen as the greens will be voted out within this timescale This is a pity as they offered so much hope but have delivered impractical solutions based often on the "stick" (like increased parking charges) rather than the "carrot" Where are the plans for park and ride? Where are the plans to encourage tourists to visit rather than push them away? Where are the plans to reduce congestion and pollution (rather than increase it like the Lewes Road plans - something that mainly works to be broken....)Well that beats all; you of all people saying "they offered so much hope" when you spent months having a personal go at Caroline Lucas! You might have noticed Labour group leader Gill Mitchell jumping on the bandwagon and not only would they do what the Greens are proposing, but spend even more money! Even Tories are proposing an extension of 20mph limits. Whatever happens and whoever is in power, 20mph zones will continue to spread and hwever impliments them will not lose votes as they will be locally popular. Try taking them away!
I hope that you will cotinue to support CAT (I do too), their research has underpinned much Green party thinking and can recommend their Zero Carbon Britain 2030 report (http://www.zerocarb
onbritain.org/), which gives an idea of the challenge we face. Fundemental change is required in every area of life.
Only the Green Party has a serious debate of how we can maintain or improve quality of life whilst avoiding the environmental and social problems that loom large. I am afraid the rest of them are still racing towards disaster. More steel boxes with wheels are not part of the solution!
mimseycal
says...
8:27pm Fri 27 Apr 12
PaulOckenden wrote:I agree. Worthing, Crawley Eastbourne is where I will be going for my shopping from now on. I don't really care where as long as it isn't Brighton!
What a totally bonkers idea. Increase pollution (VERY green!), increase congestion, and drive both visitors and employers out of the city.
They are slowly killing Brighton.
brightonandproud
says...
8:31pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
8:48pm Fri 27 Apr 12
I live in a 20mph zone and no-one takes any notice and in 20 years I have never, ever seen a police car or speed camera.
In fact, no-one has ever, ever received a parking ticket for parking on the pavements here or the double lines and the place is littered with hippy vans with people living in them.
This council does NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING.
Anyone seen the state of Wilde Park since the travellers have arrived?
It's a mud bath and the verges are devastated.
You can drive where you like, how fast you like, park where you like, and let your dog shi* where it likes.
It's all hot air.
HJarrs
says...
9:57pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:You should move over Elm Grove, I have seen cars ticketed twice in the two weeks. There are plenty of vans here too. They keep temselves to themselves, but I am worried we are about to be deluged by people living in cars and vans due to the government's social cleansing policy. The travellers continue to be a problem as they have been for every administration. But I can't agree the council is doing nothing. They have levered in funding for radical changes to the Old Shoreham Road, Lewes Road, the Level, starting the building a the first council housing in years, all of which is quite an achievement set against the bleak financial climate.
Speed limits are self policing and therefore wont work just as you can see on the M23/A27 every single day.
I live in a 20mph zone and no-one takes any notice and in 20 years I have never, ever seen a police car or speed camera.
In fact, no-one has ever, ever received a parking ticket for parking on the pavements here or the double lines and the place is littered with hippy vans with people living in them.
This council does NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING.
Anyone seen the state of Wilde Park since the travellers have arrived?
It's a mud bath and the verges are devastated.
You can drive where you like, how fast you like, park where you like, and let your dog shi* where it likes.
It's all hot air.
fredflintstone1
says...
10:19pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Couldn't agree more. Even the school safety argument itself appears laughable as far as 20mph zones are concerned when you actually see what goes on, in terms of the behaviour of schools themselves.
Speed limits are self policing and therefore wont work just as you can see on the M23/A27 every single day.
I live in a 20mph zone and no-one takes any notice and in 20 years I have never, ever seen a police car or speed camera.
In fact, no-one has ever, ever received a parking ticket for parking on the pavements here or the double lines and the place is littered with hippy vans with people living in them.
This council does NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING.
Anyone seen the state of Wilde Park since the travellers have arrived?
It's a mud bath and the verges are devastated.
You can drive where you like, how fast you like, park where you like, and let your dog shi* where it likes.
It's all hot air.
Walking down Balfour Road in the mornings, where they've expanded the "no parking" zones outside the schools, what have I spotted on a regular basis? None other than groups of B&H buses parked up illegally on the zig-zag markings, to take the children out on trips. This is clearly being authorised by school staff, who are blatantly ignoring a legal requirement specifically created for the kids' safety.
Nor are B&H Buses alone. Just before that, the Big Lemon coaches were parked illegally there for the same purpose. But of course, nothing is done about it. If the staff can't obey the law, what hope for the kids?
Portsladeresident
says...
10:28pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Joshiman
says...
11:18pm Fri 27 Apr 12
chattychatty1 wrote:Well thats a start for the loony green voters register
Excellent! Well done Greens - give the streets of Brighton back to the people away from the selfish few who want to roar around residential streets with little or no regard for the people who live there.
I will vote for Greens again and again for this sort of sensible measured approach and for the way they are proficiently running the council for us all. Thank you Greens!
hubby
says...
11:31pm Fri 27 Apr 12
Not just for your five a day.
Wake up people.
There is a new world order coming.
Gas guzzlers,environment
al murderers,people who think that possessions are more important than our world.
You are on the way out.
Consumerism is giving way to love,peace and caring.
You can't fight it.
Hard times
says...
11:32pm Fri 27 Apr 12
HJarrs wrote:Here, here
I don't understand what is up with some of you, maybe the petrol fumes have caused brain rot!
I live in a self-regulating 20mph zone; the world has not ended, the vast majority of drivers are responsible enough to obey the speed limit, journey times are unaffected and road safety has been improved.
Many communities will be fed up with people driving too fast past their front doors and I bet that for every petrol head that believes they have a right to carve up the road as they like, there will be ten people that want a more sensible balance and an improvement in road safety.
The introduction of a 20mph limit will not affect journey times as the major routes will remain as they are, which is a shame as the centre of B&H really should have a lot more shared space roads to encourage footfall, increase business and reduce accidents.
kmhove
says...
12:15am Sat 28 Apr 12
If the greens have 1 1/2 million to spend, why not spend it on educating people to use the roads more sensibly (remember the "green cross code" ?) and not walk into the paths of cars or drive at well over the limit or use mobile phones when driving (or crossing the road) ? If everywhere is 20mph, children (and adult) pedestrians will thing it's ok to walk into a road without thinking because either the traffic will be much more able to stop (what about the increased NHS costs for passengers with whiplash??) or if they are hit, at 20 mph it won't be that bad!!
I wonder who will be consulted... motorists or pedestrians!! It's so easy to say 2 out of 3 people (or 9 out of 10) want this or that if you are careful about selecting who you ask!!
Cold cold ground
says...
12:21am Sat 28 Apr 12
PaulOckenden wrote:Where pray tell is your evidence for this. Come on man I want facts I want stats. I want links you cant just say stuff like that and have no evidence to show all of us
What a totally bonkers idea. Increase pollution (VERY green!), increase congestion, and drive both visitors and employers out of the city.
They are slowly killing Brighton.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
12:30am Sat 28 Apr 12
The illuminated signs telling motorists they have broken the speed limit stay lit all the time as lorries and vans hurtle past continually. When a rubbish truck or bus meanders up these routes, frustrated commuting vehicles mount the pavements, screeching past in frustration or drivers shout at cyclists to move over or worse, come so close they block you off the road and you often see riders dragging bikes up onto the pavements.
The speed humps and the chicanes are pointless and motorists can be seen driving as fast as they can to beat vehicles approaching in the opposite direction. Ironically, the 20mph sign off Bear Road has been knocked over by vehicles hurtling around it at the junction countless times as vehicles climb the pavements and the council has been forced to use a new stronger post. The new bike rack lasted about two months and was demolished by vehicles and never returned. Successive councils have allowed the tiny, narrow Coombe Road which has a primary school on it (which children mainly walk to), shops and thousands of families living in the area, to be used as a main route in a key one-way system. Now the Greens have proposed a change to the Lewes Road/gyratory corridor which will drive even more vehicles to use these residential areas as a rat run. As a cyclist and pedestrian, I am dreading the changes because a wider cycle lane on the Lewes Road wont improve my safety any more than already available on that route, yet my safety will be compromised once I start heading up Bear Road or Coombe Road, as I will face even more frustrated, speeding vehicles who will use the Woodingdean route and these residential areas to reach the Lewes Road. But who gives a toss about thousands of local residents when a vanity project can be rolled out for the benefit of a few and please remember remember that the Lewes Road route is mainly used by uni students/workers who are not in work for at least five months a year. In summer and Christmas the cycle lane is deserted....except for me and a few old regulars.
Take a look at the marvellous counter it will give you the data.
MrPresident
says...
12:38am Sat 28 Apr 12
mimseycal
says...
6:23am Sat 28 Apr 12
I always temper the speed of my car to the prevailing road conditions. When I see children around, I slow down significantly till I have passed them. My foot is always ready to hit the brakes for when self absorbed pedestrians wander into the road without due attention to either the 'green man' or whether there is a pedestrian crossing at that particular spot. I also pay particular attention to all those cyclists who think that they can ignore road signs and signals.
I do all that as a responsible and accountable driver.
I object to this tendency to use enforcement rules and regulations, at great expense to the public purse, diminish personal accountability and responsibility, criminalise the individual and effectively reduce the population to little more than infants.
I'll hasten to add that this is not just a Green issue, though they are currently in the process of taking this tendency to ludicrous heights.
menton
says...
7:19am Sat 28 Apr 12
Old Ladys Gin
says...
7:58am Sat 28 Apr 12
This is done in all our neighbouring countries; except Ireland, which follows the UK model of car first.
Drive in front of someone waiting to cross the road in Spain and will probably get sworn at, spat at, or your car kicked - I've seen all three done.
I'm a really keen driver but view the arrogance with which pedestrians and cyclists are treated here as a national disgrace. We have the second highest pedestrian casualty rate in the EU, but this is hidden within the much vaunted generally low mortality rate on the roads.
mimseycal
says...
8:33am Sat 28 Apr 12
oldskool_raver
says...
8:45am Sat 28 Apr 12
Excuse my ignorance but what constitutes a 'main route'?
A few years ago people living in Mouslecoomb asked for speed bumps to be put along Birdham Road, there are loads of kids that play out on the streets there and if any road needed them that was high on the list. The council basically said no because it was a bus route.
I'm just wondering if the bus routes are going to become the 'main routes'.
Carden Hill is a 30mph road with a sign that lights up if you're going too fast, do cars go slowly down there (bearing in mind its proximity to a school), no, they don't.
Something tells me that Mr French of B&H buses will be consulted and listened to on this issue, so anywhere a bus goes will not have speed humps put in. I think it will be highly likely that all routes for buses will stay 30mph. You will then be left with a mish mash of speed limits around the city. You will then have something along the lines of... drive down Carden Hill at 30mph, follow the 46 route along Rotherfield Crescent at 30mph, but if you take the next right along Fernhurst Crescent you're down to 20mph and so on. I hate to say this but I'd prefer the money to be spent on Traffic Wardens, you may then have a chance of seeing them around the schools ticketing the selfish t**ts who will park anywhere they want to without considering the fact that children cannot see around or over their cars to be able to cross the road safely. That would probably save a few injuries and would be enforceable.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:08am Sat 28 Apr 12
But please take a sensible approach to the lewes road changes and look at the impact it may have on residential areas which cannot be excluded from plans.
Ballroom Blitz
says...
10:20am Sat 28 Apr 12
The police have said that they can't police the scheme - so the motorist can ignore it if it doesn't suit them.
This is still at the consultation stage. If you don't think a blanket ban is the correct way to go, and it seems most people, including the police, don't - you know what to do if consulted. And you know what to do at the next council elections.
I have no problem with 20mph limits in selected residential areas. But a blanket 20mph limit?
More Green madness. Put in the file along with 'increase in parking charges' and 'charging points for non existent electric cars'.
Last point: a scheme like this will cost millions of taxpayers money. I really think the money could be put to better use.
lizzy27
says...
10:25am Sat 28 Apr 12
Corn Hill wrote:OH GOODIE lets freeze up the WHOLE of the city with this ridiculous idea! GO GREENS or should that say GO POLLUTION RISES! PLEASE think about the concequences of your actions before "blanket over the roads and hope no one notices"!!!
You're lucky to go as fast as 20mph in many parts of town! I'd rather see money invested in cutting the number of incidents on the A27 by-pass where there are regularly serious, major accidents.
Ballroom Blitz
says...
10:37am Sat 28 Apr 12
Most sensible drivers, and they are the majority, would adjust their speed according to the road conditions and the situation. So passing a school at chucking out time - very slow, perhaps more like 10mph. Passing the same school at 11pm, 30 mph might be in order.
It's taking away all responsibility from the motorist to drive correctly.
There will always be nutters who drive way too fast for the conditions. Mostly young drivers in cars way too powerful for their limited ability.
Does anyone seriously think that putting up an unpoliced 20mph sign will slow these people down?
Not a chance.
Andy R
says...
10:52am Sat 28 Apr 12
cancelaccount wrote:Would you mind putting up your bank and credit card details?
monkeymoo wrote: Brighton is just a stupid "wannabe" city anyway. Who really cares about its speed limits (yes limits, not targets!). I can do about 30mph on my bicycle through town. Not stopping at any red lights, and i don't need insurance or a number plate! The Green party gets my vote.xxyou are a eedjit!! you admit that you have committed a road traffic offence (Running red lights) and are proud of it? you probably cycle on the pavement too.. what I would expect from a supporter of the Greens- self righteous eedjit!
Well if you're this gullible it's got to be worth a try.....
Hovite
says...
11:05am Sat 28 Apr 12
The 2 second rule should be a legal requirement, and not just a guide.
Start with penalising tailgaters and you will find this a great traffic calming measure. Would be a great money earner.
mimseycal
says...
11:13am Sat 28 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
11:17am Sat 28 Apr 12
The bus travels slowly over them, cars pull out and hurtle past at 30mph to get past the bus, hence the addtional danger.
No enforcement means people do what they like. It's human nature.
jainldn
says...
11:19am Sat 28 Apr 12
Ballroom Blitz
says...
11:37am Sat 28 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:I didn't know that.
Ballroom Blitz, there are speed humps in 20mph in Coombe Road which is a bus route.
The bus travels slowly over them, cars pull out and hurtle past at 30mph to get past the bus, hence the addtional danger.
No enforcement means people do what they like. It's human nature.
Well, the buses must travel at considerably lower speed than 20 mph to get over the speed humps without causing injury to the passengers!
But that's exactly the reason why they are a danger - because as you say, car drivers get fed up following a bus doing 10 mph and want to overtake. Far better to have no speed humps, and allow the bus to travel at up to 20 mph. If drivers still want to overtake then they are muppets and deserve to be caught and fined.
I think a blanket 20 mph limit over the whole city is ill thought out and impossible to police.
Just asking!
says...
12:33pm Sat 28 Apr 12
/public_affairs/news
/20mph-roads-emissio
ns.html
Personally, I think there are merits to some of this if it is done in the right places, but it will lead to more polution in an already over poluted City
bug eye
says...
12:38pm Sat 28 Apr 12
MzEden1
says...
12:38pm Sat 28 Apr 12
Metro Reader
says...
12:49pm Sat 28 Apr 12
They will not stop until they have killed Brighton and Hove, even more than they have already.
There are so many accidents, or collisions (remember you cannot be held responsible for an accident now) because people do not stop look or listen when crossing the road.
What is it with Brighton Parents, old and young who allow their child to run around the streets 100 yards or so in front? They should be fined for endangerment.
When is the next election?
What is even more amazing is that the greens are a minority administration, so how are these stupid ideas passed?
If every councillor actually gave a dam about B&H they would stop this now.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
3:07pm Sat 28 Apr 12
There seems to be vans, caravans and cars parked all over it and it is a complete mud bath.
It's in a shocking state, but the Greens don't seem to give a toss about the green environment.
Where's that Green gnome Pete West?
He doesn't seem to know the difference between a kitchen stool and a toadstool.
stepford
says...
3:21pm Sat 28 Apr 12
jamesbandenburg
says...
4:06pm Sat 28 Apr 12
stepford wrote:Exactly - slower-moving traffic will cause more build-up, there's no two-ways about it. I'd love to see the council's reasoning behind their belief that driving slower will allow you to get across town quicker, principally because it renders the entire life's work of Isaac Newton to be completely useless. Today it took me 10 minutes on a bus to get from Churchill Square down to the Old Steine - the entirety of Western Road and North Street were snarled up with buses, and all I could see in any direction were yet more huge yellow monstrosities belching out carcinogenic blue fumes as they coughed through the Clock Tower traffic lights two at a time before they turned red again. That's congestion, and since cars aren't allowed down that particular stretch of road it's hardly the fault of the common motorist...
I don't drive, but I notice that there is always a lot of traffic and congestion in Brighton. I can't see how slowing the cars down could help with anything at all. Every time I read about a council decision, I am surprised by their lack of common sense. Let's hope they don't get re-elected. They're a joke.
HJarrs
says...
4:19pm Sat 28 Apr 12
HJarrs
says...
4:30pm Sat 28 Apr 12
bug eye wrote:I think you will find that there was a thorough consultation a couple of years back in Hanover but the Conservative administration's proposal was rejected. Personally, I was for some parking restrictions as it would have encouraged those with more than one vehicle to have downsized their fleet.
introduce parking permits for lewes road and hanover to get the Greenies who live here to pay for their parking and get their gas guzzling hippy trucks off the streets. it is funny how there are no parking restructions in the main Green ward. all speed limits should be variable for the time of day and weather conditions. defiant pedestrians need more education and to take responsibility too. since 2000 car emissions have dropped 23% nationally and falling, so this green argument no longer stacks up they are just anti car full stop.
While it is true that the average fleet emmissions are coming down, they need to come down a lot more. Emissions are only one penalty. I had to laugh at one article where some old duffers from Hanover lamented the passing of kids being able to play in the streets when they were young, then in the next breath complaining that was not space to park their cars! So, there is the reduction of amenity space, road traffic accidents, the financial costs of running a car, parking problems, lack of raod space, oil dependancy, balance of trade payments for car and fuel purchases etc.
We have have been designing in car dependancy for 60 years and it doesn't work very well, we should now be designing out car dependancy.
wexler53
says...
5:38pm Sat 28 Apr 12
DCCCCCC
says...
6:11pm Sat 28 Apr 12
DCCCCCC
says...
6:11pm Sat 28 Apr 12
george smith
says...
6:24pm Sat 28 Apr 12
gingersandy38
says...
6:27pm Sat 28 Apr 12
Old Ladys Gin
says...
7:09pm Sat 28 Apr 12
We are simply falling into line with everyone else.
Except that in the usual british way we fudge it by making it voluntary and wishy washy.
mickage
says...
7:26pm Sat 28 Apr 12
JoePara
says...
7:35pm Sat 28 Apr 12
uniteagainstparkingcharges
says...
7:44pm Sat 28 Apr 12
http://kemptownben.b
logspot.co.uk/2012/0
4/is-it-time-for-bri
ghton-liberal.html
kmhove
says...
11:39pm Sat 28 Apr 12
Oh and regarding emissions... if the UK were to vanish off the face of the earth overnight the difference it would make to worldwide emissions would hardly be measurable. Less that 2% I believe! It might make the earth last a minute or two longer in the end! Why oh why do we bother so much about that sort of thing when we'd do far more good flushing our loos with used bath water or washing our cars with saved rainwater so we don't throw so much drinking water away! Now that really WOULD achieve something useful! 'Doubt if the Greens are very interested in that though... it's not anti-motorist!
willy harris
says...
5:43am Sun 29 Apr 12
o never heed the rules.
Old Ladys Gin
says...
7:49am Sun 29 Apr 12
kmhove wrote:Or, I've heard not wasting a third of the food we buy; that alone would just about wipe out the emissions of all the cars in the country.
Can we pause for a moment.... and can anyone detail a REAL, ACTUAL accident caused SOLELY but someone driving between 20 and 30 MPH around Brighton and Hove? Not a tearaway; not a careless motorist or cyclist or pedestrial, but and accident caused wholly and only by the speed. If not, why do the council think that lowering the speed limit EVERWHERE is going to make one jot difference?
Oh and regarding emissions... if the UK were to vanish off the face of the earth overnight the difference it would make to worldwide emissions would hardly be measurable. Less that 2% I believe! It might make the earth last a minute or two longer in the end! Why oh why do we bother so much about that sort of thing when we'd do far more good flushing our loos with used bath water or washing our cars with saved rainwater so we don't throw so much drinking water away! Now that really WOULD achieve something useful! 'Doubt if the Greens are very interested in that though... it's not anti-motorist!
All we are doing though is falling into line with many of our neighbouring countries. The so called 'Greens' dress it up as something different, but that's what we are doing.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
9:49am Sun 29 Apr 12
Please get online and make sure you comment on the Lewes road plans.
I cycle this route almost daily and it will be murder, particularly on match days.
Get online today if you use this route and make sure this council does not railroad anymore of its minority policies through us.
They have erected electric charging posts so their rich mates
who can afford a £20,000 car, one of which is never used, erected cycling counters while families are losing homes.
This wasteful and out of touch council must be stopped from wasting more money and creating more congestion.
Get online and complete the quick form so I can then request an FoI of how many people opposed the plans when it is rolled out against local
People's wishes.
Dr Wombleface
says...
10:01am Sun 29 Apr 12
They want us to use more sustainable transport but if there's a family of 3 or 4, there's no point getting the bus as it costs more than the car park (well, most of the car parks). Also the bus service isn't up to scratch. I regularly see three 5B buses going down Braybon Avenue in convoy. What is a 20mph limit going to do to bus timetables? Anyone thought about that? Surely they will need more buses to provide a service with the same regularity, which means they will put bus fares up to cover it. It's a no win situation. THIS IS GETTING BEYOND A JOKE. We are a tourist town (city) but we're making it more and more expensive and inaccessible for people to visit. I'm proud to be Brighton born and bred, but I'm not proud of the way Brighton's going.
Hard times
says...
3:01pm Sun 29 Apr 12
There is no reason to drive 30mph on residential streets.
The roads are for all of us not just the selfish minority of the city.
If this saves the lives of a child or gives a more peaceful environment for the elderly then I'm all for it.
thisistips
says...
3:52pm Sun 29 Apr 12
antonyA
says...
6:02pm Sun 29 Apr 12
antonyA
says...
6:07pm Sun 29 Apr 12
hubby wrote:Green voter,SAY NO MORE,,,
Greens are for life.
Not just for your five a day.
Wake up people.
There is a new world order coming.
Gas guzzlers,environment
al murderers,people who think that possessions are more important than our world.
You are on the way out.
Consumerism is giving way to love,peace and caring.
You can't fight it.
ghost bus driver
says...
7:49pm Sun 29 Apr 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Coombe Road has speed pillows (as does Buckingham Road - also a bus route) which are narrow enough for a bus to go over without having to slow down drastically. Buses are unlikely to be massively affected as I measured my average speed on one of the 50s once and it came out as 7mph. Installing SPECS cameras would enforce the speed change as they measure average speed rather than actual speed. they time you between two fixed points and then calculate what the average was based on Speed = Distance / Time. In a 30 zone 1 mile should take no less than 2 minutes so if you have cameras mile apart and you take less than 2 minutes to register on both cameras then you get a ticket.
Ballroom Blitz, there are speed humps in 20mph in Coombe Road which is a bus route.
The bus travels slowly over them, cars pull out and hurtle past at 30mph to get past the bus, hence the addtional danger.
No enforcement means people do what they like. It's human nature.
Here's a site explaining how it works:
http://www.speedcame
rasuk.com/specs.htm
Cold cold ground
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7:59pm Sun 29 Apr 12
DCCCCCC wrote:Please go soon!
How absolutely ridiculous. Time to move from what is soon to become a Ghost town. It's a dump anyway.
Michael Inkpin-Leissner
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1:46am Mon 30 Apr 12
fred clause
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7:38am Mon 30 Apr 12
Joshiman
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9:50am Mon 30 Apr 12
chattychatty1 wrote:Is this a sarcastic joke?Or are you one of the ever diminishing Greenie activists?
Excellent! Well done Greens - give the streets of Brighton back to the people away from the selfish few who want to roar around residential streets with little or no regard for the people who live there.
I will vote for Greens again and again for this sort of sensible measured approach and for the way they are proficiently running the council for us all. Thank you Greens!
Falhawk66
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12:50pm Mon 30 Apr 12
localboy78
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1:55pm Mon 30 Apr 12
Mark63 wrote:The reason why there are numerous references to 'town centre' is because Brighton is a town and thus has a town centre. If Brighton has a 'city centre' then surely Hove must have one too?!
OMG - this council is determined to take Brighton back to the 19th Century!How soon can we vote them out? One mad scheme after another - they are completely out of touch with the people who live here. Stop treating B&H like a 19th century village - you wanted it to be a city, now act like it is one! Spend the money on getting signage up to date (numerous refer to 'town centre' 12 years after city status was won) - the lunatics are well and truly in charge! - 20mph speed limits - £20 to park for a day - happy for travellers to park up just about anywhere - even in RESIDENTIAL streets! - Council tax hike (thankfully scrapped due to pressure) Do they want this to become a ghost town?!? Get a grip!
You seem to forget that it was Brighton AND Hove that became a city of two conjoined towns. Brighton, and Hove, on their own are still towns. Therefore the centre of Brighton is Brighton Town Centre, and the centre of Hove is Hove Town Centre.
The only 'city centre' would surely be 'Brighton & Hove City Centre' the boundaries of which are presently unclear, although I understand that the mysterious, undefined 'Brighton & Hove City Centre' is generally considered to start at the top of Church Road at the juction of Hove Street, and runs all the way down to the Old Steine.
Cash Cow
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2:03pm Mon 30 Apr 12
Roundperson
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2:47pm Mon 30 Apr 12
mimseycal
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2:54pm Mon 30 Apr 12
Cash Cow wrote:With separate charges for incoming and outgoing!
With the introduction of the digital speed cameras, along with parking charges, all we need now is congestion charges. Soon after we will all be walking about with gas mask type things on our faces, with little meters on, so we can be charged for the air we breath!
I wonder if we will get a discount for the 20% oxygen we exhale?
DCCCCCC
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8:27pm Mon 30 Apr 12
Cold cold ground wrote:I am, 16 May to be precise. Can't come soon enough. I've lived many places in my life time but for me, none have been as awful as this!
DCCCCCC wrote:Please go soon!
How absolutely ridiculous. Time to move from what is soon to become a Ghost town. It's a dump anyway.
20splenty
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7:18am Wed 2 May 12
Spanners wrote:@Spanners Evidence from Porsmouth shows average vehicle speeds reduced 6.3mph on those roads where previously they were above 24mph. Drivers there have slowed down. Most people obey laws not based on whether they might get caught but because they realise they are for the good of society. In Worthing 97% of road injuries to children don't happen outside schools. Children get run down on the roads they live on. That's why we need 20mph on all residential roads. The only drivers that won't comply are those who are too selfish to slow down for the safety of others - just so they can get to the next queue a few seconds quicker!
nairtselcyc wrote:What you have come up with a some statistics on road incidents in Worthing (which by the way includes roads that have national speed limits and not just 30mph). What you have not shown is that a reduction to 20 mph has any effect on those stats. Yes, you can post stats that show that a child hit a 30 will likley die and a child hit a 20 will likley survive. All this is based on the assumption that drivers actually adhere to the limits. Which they won't as the whole thing is totally unenforceable. If actually your £12m costs dont come down at all then all youve achieved is to chuck another £1.5m down the hole. And that 12m is wrong anyway as it includes costs for smash ups in all speed limits not just 30mph. I'm not saying there is not a place for 20 limits - as others have stated near schools and so forth - but blanket makes no sense
"please show us the demonstrative, statistical and factual evidence" From Worthing 20mph campaign (backed by stats): "On average, Worthing suffers 2 fatalities, 37 serious injuries and 239 slight injuries EVERY year on its roads. Official Department for Transport costings value this at over £12 million, so if this figure was reduced by just 8% then the scheme would pay for itself in less than four and a half months." I challenge anyone to come up with a cost-benefit analysis of 20mph vs 30mph that proves otherwise.
fredflintstone1
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7:27pm Wed 2 May 12
20splenty wrote:It's time parents and teachers took more responsibility as well. See the kids on the Ditchling Road as they pour out of Varndean. They cross in mobs where they like, often not using the crossing, and simply expecting the traffic to anticipate what they're doing. Selfish and stupid. It's no wonder that there have been more accidents. It's nothing to do with speed - there's a speed camera there.
Spanners wrote:@Spanners Evidence from Porsmouth shows average vehicle speeds reduced 6.3mph on those roads where previously they were above 24mph. Drivers there have slowed down. Most people obey laws not based on whether they might get caught but because they realise they are for the good of society. In Worthing 97% of road injuries to children don't happen outside schools. Children get run down on the roads they live on. That's why we need 20mph on all residential roads. The only drivers that won't comply are those who are too selfish to slow down for the safety of others - just so they can get to the next queue a few seconds quicker!
nairtselcyc wrote:What you have come up with a some statistics on road incidents in Worthing (which by the way includes roads that have national speed limits and not just 30mph). What you have not shown is that a reduction to 20 mph has any effect on those stats. Yes, you can post stats that show that a child hit a 30 will likley die and a child hit a 20 will likley survive. All this is based on the assumption that drivers actually adhere to the limits. Which they won't as the whole thing is totally unenforceable. If actually your £12m costs dont come down at all then all youve achieved is to chuck another £1.5m down the hole. And that 12m is wrong anyway as it includes costs for smash ups in all speed limits not just 30mph. I'm not saying there is not a place for 20 limits - as others have stated near schools and so forth - but blanket makes no sense
"please show us the demonstrative, statistical and factual evidence" From Worthing 20mph campaign (backed by stats): "On average, Worthing suffers 2 fatalities, 37 serious injuries and 239 slight injuries EVERY year on its roads. Official Department for Transport costings value this at over £12 million, so if this figure was reduced by just 8% then the scheme would pay for itself in less than four and a half months." I challenge anyone to come up with a cost-benefit analysis of 20mph vs 30mph that proves otherwise.
PittaPatta
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10:42am Thu 3 May 12
nairtselcyc wrote:I think you really require a reality check.
disrember wrote:I see your point, but there are benefits to 20mph even at night time. It makes the street quieter and more pleasant for nearby homes. Children might be in bed but others are out and about.
I find this all just a bit bonkers myself.
I live near a primary school and struggle to understand why I am need to do 20mph at 11pm evening, because theres a school on the road.
To those saying it's a waste of money... this is demonstrably untrue. Much more money is today being wasted and lives ruined by the cost of collisions in 30mph roads.
Pollution and congestion will both be reduced--proven by research.
Final point: if you think this is a bad idea ask anyone living on a 20mph street today if they want the speed limit changed to 30mph. I'm sure you'll not find many honest people who would.
When petrol contained anti-knock compound, namely lead, pollution studies proved that there was little or no concerns regarding toxic emissions. To have been affected in anyway, you would have needed to have been situated in a gutter at the bottom of spaghetti junction in Birmingham.
Since the "Clean and Green Unleaded petrol" came into existence, there are five major carcinogenics incorporated in the fuel, that will have an untold long-term affect on the population. And that my friend is demonstrably true!
So whilst you eulogize over all things 'Green', just take some time to think of what being green actually means.
Corn Hill says...
11:41am Fri 27 Apr 12
I'd rather see money invested in cutting the number of incidents on the A27 by-pass where there are regularly serious, major accidents.