How successful have Brighton and Hove City Council's new parking charges been? (From The Argus)
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How successful have Brighton and Hove City Council's new parking charges been?
1:27pm Tuesday 26th June 2012 in News By Tim Ridgway, Local government reporter
How successful have Brighton and Hove City Council's new parking charges been?
Wholesale changes to parking charges across Brighton and Hove have sparked much controversy. But, three months on, have council bosses achieved what they set out to do? TIM RIDGWAY reports.
To reduce congestion and push people towards more sustainable ways of getting around – these were two of the reasons Brighton and Hove City Council gave when it approved a raft of changes to its parking charges from April 1.
But there were other methods behind, what some call, the madness.
The local authority also claimed the changes, which saw some tariffs more than double, would raise an extra £1.3 million a year.
But details obtained by The Argus under the Freedom of Information Act show that financially the council is not doing as well as it would like.
Compared to the first two months last year, the council has recouped an extra £70,000.
If this is reflected throughout the next year it would leave it about £900,000 short of its target.
Income from the council’s on-street parking bays has actually dropped.
Critics say it is proof the charges are "counterproductive" with visitors and shoppers going elsewhere.
They add while the council may be getting more money, this is cash which is being taken away from local businesses.
Others, who have backed The Argus’ Park The Charges campaign to review the strategy, maintain it is hitting people too hard in the pocket during difficult financial times.
But a council spokeswoman said: “The parking figures for April and May cannot possibly give an accurate picture of year round parking in the city, particularly as we have just endured one of the wettest months on record, when numbers of visitors to the city fell dramatically.
“In fact, in a recent issue of The Argus a spokesperson for Brighton’s Palace Pier was quoted as saying ‘it feels like we’ve had 40 days of rain which has badly damaged the business’.
“Since the beginning of April the weather has been atrocious and the whole town’s been quiet.
“It is important to remember that the decision to raise parking charges was made to improve traffic flow, reduce congestion and cut down on pollution.”
The raft of changes saw the majority of prices, particularly those in the centre of the city, increase by double-digit percentages.
At the time the council said it was trying to simplify the tariffs.
Minimum parking periods increased from 15 and 30 minutes to one hour.
This is £1 in some areas but in central Brighton it is £3.50 – an increase from £1.70.
The local authority claims it is trying to push people towards using off-street car parks instead.
However, business and tourism leaders dispute whether this has happened.
Claire Ottewell, chairman of Brighton and Hove Tourism Alliance, said: “I can understand the council’s need to recover revenues in order to fund key public services.
“However the potential ‘win’ of the £1.3 million from the increase in parking charges is costing the local tourism economy that amount and more in lost customers and thus threatening their ability to survive.
“The irony for us is that Brighton was already an expensive city to park in – the Tourism Alliance was already campaigning to make it more affordable before these increased charges were introduced.
“We do support the channelling of customers to the city’s car parks, which are getting better all the time.
“However street parking in destinations without car parks like Seven Dials and Kemp Town, is the very life blood of the area and needs urgent review.
“£3.50 per hour is unaffordable by anyone’s standard.”
Opposition councillors have opposed the hikes in prices.
Conservative councillor Geoffrey Theobald said: “I have been saying from the word go this would be counterproductive and not bring in anything like the £1.3 million extra income they budgeted for and here is the evidence.
“It seems to me to be obvious that if you put up the charges too much, people will simply vote with their wallets and go elsewhere and it is local businesses that will suffer.
“It is not too late for them to change their minds and do another u-turn but, as it stands, the Greens’ parking policy is in complete disarray.”
Labour councillor Warren Morgan said: “The Greens will claim this drop in parking revenue is entirely due to the weather, however business owners at last week’s state of the city event clearly don’t accept that.
“The parking fee increases were designed by the Greens to keep cars out of the city: customers have stayed away and businesses and jobs are suffering as a result.”
For more reaction from the business community and full breakdown of the charges see today's Argus.
Comments(84)
fred clause
says...
1:50pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Cabin fever
says...
1:56pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I decided on Churchill Square 1, where I paid £3 for two hours, which is OK with me.
Surely the fairest way (for the people, maybe not the council/car park company coffers) is to introduce a pence per minute scheme?
I was there less than 30 minutes, which means less than a quarter of the time I'm entitled to. The receipt has the times I arrived and left printed on it, so there must be the technology to make it fairer?
Never gonna happen though, is it?
In other news, there were lots of cyclists using the new cycle lane by BHASVIC *runsforcover*...
Ligand Fields
says...
2:01pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
2:05pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I have to say though they don't affect me as I haven't got a car (although my wife has). We deal with the sky-high bus prices and sky-high parking prices by not using either. If one of us wants to go into town (from Fiveways) the other one drives in and either waits or worse, goes home and comes back later. The queues don't worry us, it's just the price you pay for living in a city. Probably not the effect the council were after but there you go, it's the Law of Unintended Consequences.
MaldonMark
says...
2:15pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Brighton has gradually making it a miserable place to live in terms of being able to do that. Every nook and cranny is being sewn up, even the delightful Preston park now has parking meters and traffic wardens prowling around.
The other day I was just going to have a walk on the seafront with my wife and discovered it was going to cost me £6 for two hours in a spot that used to be 50p an hour. Goodness knows what daytrippers and tourists make of it. And if you're a business in Seven Dials, for example, it must be hitting your trade, who is going to pay to simply pop into a newsagent or video shop?
Last weekend we paid a visit to Worthing and you could park in some streets for free and not feel harassed.
Brighton may be earning a few bob from it but I think it's shortsighted and just takes the shine off what is otherwise a wonderful place.
Ligand Fields
says...
2:19pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Mark63
says...
2:32pm Tue 26 Jun 12
MissFit
says...
2:32pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Fercri Sakes
says...
2:34pm Tue 26 Jun 12
People across the country are skint (not the Green's fault, quite the opposite) and Brighton has always been an expensive place to visit so let's not be blinkered and blame a fall on visitor numbers on parking charges just yet.
Phani Tikkala
says...
2:49pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Nothing to do with the weather at all....
I do feel sorry for the local businesses screwed by some ideological muppets
Ligand Fields
says...
3:04pm Tue 26 Jun 12
graham_Seagull
says...
3:17pm Tue 26 Jun 12
NickBtn
says...
3:25pm Tue 26 Jun 12
One quote from the article stands out: "Income from the council’s on-street parking bays has actually dropped"
Prices increase in many cases massively. Revenue falls. Clearly it's not working and needs a major rethink. Quickly - before too many businesses and the town suffers.
pjwilk
says...
3:30pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Ligand Fields
says...
3:32pm Tue 26 Jun 12
pjwilk
says...
3:32pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Ligand Fields wrote:You having a laugh,on double yellow lines,i dont think so.
I don't see what the problem is: anyone can park all day on the double-yellow lines in Preston Street for free. Another free parking spot in on Queens Road (the part just in front of Brighton Station), where you can park all day on double yellow lines and 'No Loading' double-yellow kerb stripes for free, 24-7.
rolivan
says...
3:37pm Tue 26 Jun 12
MissFit wrote:What and miss out on the construction of the Magic Roundabout.
In the 6 years I have lived in Seven Dials visitors permits have jumped from £1 to £2.50 each. A visiting friend stayed overnight a few weeks ago and we realised in the morning when she was trying to pack up her children and their belongings just before 9am that she would have to pay £3.50 to park for what amounted to approx. 20 minutes to avoid risking a £30 penalty. Disgraceful. This council and their greed will eventually force people to move away from Brighton. I am seriously considering it.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
3:40pm Tue 26 Jun 12
It would be interesting to see if Churchill Square, which subsidises parking charges has seen an increase in footfall and if the Marina, where there is free parking, has also seen an increase in footfall and vehicle parking.
It would be a good comparison.
However, the Green council will ignore it as they are driving through ideology at any cost.
fred clause
says...
4:14pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Fercri Sakes wrote:Not true our sky high price charges were all over the national press so its hardly a shock there going elsewhere is it.
As if holiday makers would have known about these parking charges before deciding whether to visit Brighton. I think the weather has had much more to do with it. People across the country are skint (not the Green's fault, quite the opposite) and Brighton has always been an expensive place to visit so let's not be blinkered and blame a fall on visitor numbers on parking charges just yet.
Surely not!
says...
4:57pm Tue 26 Jun 12
You wouldn't get me to go to Crawley to shop if you paid me to park there.
pistachionut
says...
5:02pm Tue 26 Jun 12
graham_Seagull wrote:If all bus travel was free, how would this service be paid for?.
Make ALL bus travel free. The reduction in pollution, traffic chaos and the improved movement throughout the town would be great
Would the increase in usage in people using it more especially for short journeys not increase pollution.
bug eye
says...
5:57pm Tue 26 Jun 12
ClintG
says...
6:04pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Cleaners Brighton
Fercri Sakes
says...
6:34pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Can you explain how Churchill Square subsidises their parking spaces? I don't get it. Just would like to see the maths.
Parking charges do not change people's mode of transport behaviours, it only changes motorist's destinations.
It would be interesting to see if Churchill Square, which subsidises parking charges has seen an increase in footfall and if the Marina, where there is free parking, has also seen an increase in footfall and vehicle parking.
It would be a good comparison.
However, the Green council will ignore it as they are driving through ideology at any cost.
disrember
says...
6:35pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I have complained and was told the original plan was... 11pm...
Dwayno
says...
6:45pm Tue 26 Jun 12
tartanesque
says...
6:46pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
Ligand Fields
says...
6:49pm Tue 26 Jun 12
pjwilk wrote:Have you ever actually BEEN to that part of Queen's Road, or to Preston Street. Another excellent free parking zone is the cycle lane/double yellow lines on the Lewes Road. Park all, long as you like!
Ligand Fields wrote:You having a laugh,on double yellow lines,i dont think so.
I don't see what the problem is: anyone can park all day on the double-yellow lines in Preston Street for free. Another free parking spot in on Queens Road (the part just in front of Brighton Station), where you can park all day on double yellow lines and 'No Loading' double-yellow kerb stripes for free, 24-7.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
7:23pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I know that Churchill Square uses the car park info to measure footfall and give the city centre useful trade data.
Therefore, the car park must have comparative data of when the bay charges increased ie, did people who used to park on the seafront on a weekday trip now avoid those costly bays and head to the CS car park or the Marina it's easily accessed comparative data.
As for visitors FecriSakes, it's risky to leave visitors feeling ripped off if they don't feel they get good value.
There's also a risk that the demographic of the visitors changes, ie only young drinkers with spend in bars/restaurants and little spend in family venues or museums etc
Many city centres across Europe have tried to throw off the stag/hen/party venue label as it actually loses locations money in the long term.
Morpheus
says...
7:26pm Tue 26 Jun 12
fred clause
says...
7:43pm Tue 26 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:I think you need to get your head out of the sand our prices our some of the highest in the country and yes it is having an effect on our tourist trade and our buisnesses much like the numptys you voted for you obvioulsy wont be happy untill we have become a ghost town.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me.
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
power_ranger
says...
7:46pm Tue 26 Jun 12
In future we shall recommend meetings in our out of town offices, and lunch will never be bought again in Brighton.
Brighton pebbles
says...
7:54pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Brighton pebbles
says...
7:54pm Tue 26 Jun 12
keswick
says...
7:56pm Tue 26 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:You voted for these green's and you are therefore responsible in your own way for the systamatic destruction of this city by a small number of people hell-bent on pursuing their ideology regardless of the consequences. Even the tories are better than this mob, come to it I would even prefer the BNP.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
brightonsaints
says...
8:14pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I have to spend all day in Brighton often and cannot believe the £25 Churchill Square charge, the on street parking is just as bad.
Short-sightedness is the word(s). Yes, raising the parking charges have "green" benefits, but in my world it is clearly damaging the trade in all of my 5 shops in Brighton.
Dealing with idiots
says...
8:14pm Tue 26 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:Do you run a business? If not then you should keep quiet and let those of us in the real world get on and pay for the windmills, cycle lanes and Jasons vanity p***s tower.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
8:36pm Tue 26 Jun 12
.......listening to screeching business owners.
What a patronising and aggressive attitude towards the people who provide the very fabric of the city and you are just like the Greens who refuse to listen and don't trust what they are being told by any people in the city whether its residents, traders, business people, visitors, bus users.
That's a dangerous attitude to take.
Ignore your residents at your peril.
tartanesque
says...
8:49pm Tue 26 Jun 12
fred clause wrote:Where is your evidence that it's having an effect on the tourist trade/businesses?
tartanesque wrote:I think you need to get your head out of the sand our prices our some of the highest in the country and yes it is having an effect on our tourist trade and our buisnesses much like the numptys you voted for you obvioulsy wont be happy untill we have become a ghost town.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me.
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
tartanesque
says...
8:55pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Ignore my residents? I AM a resident!
tartanesque.........
.......listening to screeching business owners.
What a patronising and aggressive attitude towards the people who provide the very fabric of the city and you are just like the Greens who refuse to listen and don't trust what they are being told by any people in the city whether its residents, traders, business people, visitors, bus users.
That's a dangerous attitude to take.
Ignore your residents at your peril.
Ok I'll take back the word screeching - I should have said hysterical. It certainly wasn't intended to be patronising and I fail to understand why you would think my opinion was agressive in any way.
I stand by my comments - it's my view and I'm entitled to it. Thanks so much for reading:)
tartanesque
says...
8:57pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Dealing with idiots wrote:Yep I own my own business, but I don't agree that only business owners should be entitled to express their views or have an opinion. Is that really what you think?
tartanesque wrote:Do you run a business? If not then you should keep quiet and let those of us in the real world get on and pay for the windmills, cycle lanes and Jasons vanity p***s tower.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
tartanesque
says...
9:09pm Tue 26 Jun 12
keswick wrote:Well, change is inevitable and is hard for lots of people - clearly you are one of them. I prefer change through the democratic process from a party such as the Greens rather than racist/homophobic thugs like the BNP.
tartanesque wrote:You voted for these green's and you are therefore responsible in your own way for the systamatic destruction of this city by a small number of people hell-bent on pursuing their ideology regardless of the consequences. Even the tories are better than this mob, come to it I would even prefer the BNP.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
I don't think the council are imposing a "systematic destruction" of the city - that's a bit over the top don't you think? And you could say that whatever party is voted in are likely to pursue their ideology. Thank goodness voters such as yourself continually fail to elect the fascist BNP - I hate to imagine what types of changes they would want to bring in....
Thanks for your feedback - I'm grateful that you took the time to read and respond to my post:)
tartanesque
says...
9:15pm Tue 26 Jun 12
fred clause wrote:I can almost see your bottom lip protruding!
tartanesque wrote:I think you need to get your head out of the sand our prices our some of the highest in the country and yes it is having an effect on our tourist trade and our buisnesses much like the numptys you voted for you obvioulsy wont be happy untill we have become a ghost town.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me.
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
Don't have nightmares about Brighton becoming a ghost town - it's just not going to happen because of some changes in car parking charges.
Aren't you willing to give it a year or so to see what happens? Or do you foresee a ghost town scenario happening by the end of August if the council doesn't reverse it's policy?
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
9:39pm Tue 26 Jun 12
And instead of sending silly Tweets saying that a church school is a cult, perhaps they could behave in a more understanding way instead of promoting division and hate.
These greens seem to be more Tory than the bloody Tories.
It's a shame that their green credentials are actually faux credentials and they are actually just Tories.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
9:44pm Tue 26 Jun 12
I can tell you breathing in diesel deep into your lungs is **** and now I find out that the Lewes Road will have more traffic on it.
I feel utterly lied to and cheated.
nosolution
says...
10:02pm Tue 26 Jun 12
fondueinferno
says...
10:54pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Dave in Hastings
says...
11:40pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Mark63 wrote:So you spend probably a tenner on petrol and an extra hour (at least) in the car to go to Chichester? Yeah that makes economic sense... not!
I'd rather spend a little on petrol and drive to Chichester for shopping, where I feel very welcome and at a fraction of the cost ... Brighton Council is kicking me in the teeth with its criminal parking charges and spending the ill-gotten gains on narrowing streets with unused cycle roads, slowing down traffic at every opportunity (keep them safe yes, but not at a stand still!) and paying their parking officers to increase parking meter rates at every opportunity ... Empty spaces on the sea front and around Preston Park say just one thing - people are going elsewhere... Get a grip Greens, its not all about 2 wheels and bus lanes! Traffic options should be proportionate to useage and needs - you can't force people on to bikes!
GIVE UP
says...
12:29am Wed 27 Jun 12
Brightonlad86
says...
6:13am Wed 27 Jun 12
I own a car. I need it for work. To run my car (tax/insurance) costs me £800+ per year!! Why use public transport when I have already had to pay such a huge amounts just for the privilege of owning a vehicle? When you pay out that sort of money you might as well make good use of it!
I can't remember the last time I dove into Brighton. I refuse to pay the price for parking. I'd rather pay that bit extra in fuel and travel in comfort than pay towards the bonus' of these corrupt b******
pjwilk
says...
9:29am Wed 27 Jun 12
Ligand Fields wrote:Yeah read the highway code.
pjwilk wrote:Have you ever actually BEEN to that part of Queen's Road, or to Preston Street. Another excellent free parking zone is the cycle lane/double yellow lines on the Lewes Road. Park all, long as you like!
Ligand Fields wrote:You having a laugh,on double yellow lines,i dont think so.
I don't see what the problem is: anyone can park all day on the double-yellow lines in Preston Street for free. Another free parking spot in on Queens Road (the part just in front of Brighton Station), where you can park all day on double yellow lines and 'No Loading' double-yellow kerb stripes for free, 24-7.
Fercri Sakes
says...
9:31am Wed 27 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Thanks for the info.
Fecri Sakes, I understood that the company which owns Churchill Square enables the car park attached to the shopping centre to charge low rates (£3 for two hours), via the rents to its traders to encourage shoppers into the centre, whereas the council owned car parks nearby (as listed on the council's website) charge £5 for two hours.
I know that Churchill Square uses the car park info to measure footfall and give the city centre useful trade data.
Therefore, the car park must have comparative data of when the bay charges increased ie, did people who used to park on the seafront on a weekday trip now avoid those costly bays and head to the CS car park or the Marina it's easily accessed comparative data.
As for visitors FecriSakes, it's risky to leave visitors feeling ripped off if they don't feel they get good value.
There's also a risk that the demographic of the visitors changes, ie only young drinkers with spend in bars/restaurants and little spend in family venues or museums etc
Many city centres across Europe have tried to throw off the stag/hen/party venue label as it actually loses locations money in the long term.
So there's a company which owns the whole building of Churchill Square that pays the company that runs the car park below it?
ZofiZi
says...
9:33am Wed 27 Jun 12
Fercri Sakes
says...
9:36am Wed 27 Jun 12
P.S. I also drive to Edinburgh to do my shopping nowdays. Mucvh more convenient.
mimseycal
says...
9:39am Wed 27 Jun 12
Now that I have a wheelchair that can access the local buses, I do occasionally go into the centre but if any large spending is required, such as my weekly shopping or items for the house, I go out of town. Even with the added cost of petrol, it still works out cheaper.
Fercri Sakes
says...
9:40am Wed 27 Jun 12
Can you imagine if all that traffic still came through the city? The seafront, Shoreham Road and the Lewes Road would be gridlocked all of the time and nobody would visit at all.
Let's not blame visitor numbers on parking just yet when we've had the wettest few months on record.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:04am Wed 27 Jun 12
Try looking on the Churchill Square website. I once asked a council officer why the city centre car parks had different tariffs when they were adjacent to each other.
I was told that CS subsidises or owns the car park, hence the difference in car parking charges between CS and the other multi-storeys.
Perhaps The Argus can answer this question for us and find out why its only £3 for two hours in CS yet £5 for two hours in the council operated car parks.
The council's website has details of the tariffs and car parks it operates.
The of course the marina car park is free, I am not sure who owns that one and why it's free.
BURIRAM
says...
10:13am Wed 27 Jun 12
I parked the car and went to the ticket machine to buy a ticket to park, would have needed about 15 minutes max. The minimum charge was £3.50 for up to one hour. Now add this to the price of my pie would cost me £5.
So I drove to Asda and got a pie for 50p and parked for free.
So the local pie shop lost a customer and the parking space got no revenue and I drove more miles around the city than I needed to.
Fercri Sakes
says...
10:54am Wed 27 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Right, so the CS car park isn't subsidised then. If it's owned by the same company then it can set the prices to whatever it wants.
FecriSakes, Churchill Square is a privately owned company. It has a website. I know it was owned by an investment company a while ago, possibly Standard Life or something similar.
Try looking on the Churchill Square website. I once asked a council officer why the city centre car parks had different tariffs when they were adjacent to each other.
I was told that CS subsidises or owns the car park, hence the difference in car parking charges between CS and the other multi-storeys.
Perhaps The Argus can answer this question for us and find out why its only £3 for two hours in CS yet £5 for two hours in the council operated car parks.
The council's website has details of the tariffs and car parks it operates.
The of course the marina car park is free, I am not sure who owns that one and why it's free.
The differences in parking prices from CS to council-owned streets is a moot point. If CS charge nothing, to attract more visitors, then I'd hardly want the council to follow suit.
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
11:04am Wed 27 Jun 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
11:09am Wed 27 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:Average? Try visiting Seaford, Worthing or Eastbourne and then come back and say the parking prices are 'average'. Jeez, I don't mind you being in favour of the higher prices, but you don't do yourself any favours by lying about facts.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me.
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
Kate234
says...
11:10am Wed 27 Jun 12
trecar
says...
11:20am Wed 27 Jun 12
The Greens although being the largest party in terms of seats and votes only actually polled 14.58% of the electorate, hardly an overwhelming endorsement for their policies. Bringing in high parking charges can result in negative impacts just as much as positive ones. The test will be which impact is greater. If business suffers then the additional burden for the city will be higher unemployment, lower investment and an adverse effect on income for the city from the new business rates allocation system. We could then all be paying higher rates as a result. The local government act 2000 gives the local authority the power to promote or improve the economic well being of their area. If their actions result in the opposite then the electorate have the right to petition the Minister responsible for local government affairs. So there is a sanction if high parking charges have a detrimental effect. It's a case of wait and see, by which time of course it could be too late.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
12:13pm Wed 27 Jun 12
However, the council is operating in the opposite way and as it is not an experienced business generating organisation and does not have the generation of business as a core function, it is struggling to understand techniques to attract business.
The summer wont be the telling time for the city, it will be September onwards (excepting the Christmas trade period) and the February to Easter windows where these charges will kill trade.
The town is dead in winter weekdays and evenings and these charges will put people off further.
I understand that you are a green suporter with your posts, but I am non political and from an objective view, these charges are a charge too far in the current economic climate.
Fercri Sakes
says...
1:09pm Wed 27 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:I suppose my argument is whether tourists will be put off more by bad traffic jams than they would by expensive parking. I don't think we can solve both issues, it's one or the other.
Fecri Sakes, the point is that a private business which needs to generate footfall and business offers competitive parking prices to attract customers. Customer benefits are key to any companies' success, John Lewis, Tesco and the big supermarkets have wiped the UK pound per head spend with free parking and excellent customer service.
However, the council is operating in the opposite way and as it is not an experienced business generating organisation and does not have the generation of business as a core function, it is struggling to understand techniques to attract business.
The summer wont be the telling time for the city, it will be September onwards (excepting the Christmas trade period) and the February to Easter windows where these charges will kill trade.
The town is dead in winter weekdays and evenings and these charges will put people off further.
I understand that you are a green suporter with your posts, but I am non political and from an objective view, these charges are a charge too far in the current economic climate.
And as a local I'd rather have less traffic due to many reasons, while parking for tourists is less of a concern. Everything else costs the same as London here (housing, booze, etc..) so I don't see why parking should be much different.
banargustrolls
says...
1:28pm Wed 27 Jun 12
The council is having an absolute laugh charging £3.50 an hour and really doesn't give a **** what the consequences are, clearly.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
1:41pm Wed 27 Jun 12
Parking charges influence destination choice and the demographic of the parkers, hence the success of out of town retail parks at the cost to UK high streets and the Govt hiring that Mary Queen of Shops woman to save town centres.
The only impact on driving motoring numbers down has been counted during hikes in fuel, unfortunately, the fuel hikes generate bus fare hikes too.
You will only get people on public transport if its a much cheaper alternative as seen in Europe.
Griff_rhys
says...
2:49pm Wed 27 Jun 12
Ligand Fields
says...
3:46pm Wed 27 Jun 12
Kate234 wrote:we all know that the Argus' real agenda is to unseat the Greens and instead have everyone down on the seafront in a feral rage, biting each other's faces off and slavvering like madmen. Naked. WELL I FOR ONE AM NOT HAVING IT.
This has had a shocking impact on the City and businesses (which will ultimately feed through to jobs). Running a tourist business I hear nothing but tourists complain about this policy and say that they will not come back to Brighton because of this. The Greens should be ashamed of themselves for doing this to businesses in Brighton and just assuming everyone is rich like Caroline Lucas. I know myself when going into town it cost £6 to park for two hours to get Sunday lunch. I won't be going to the North Laines for Sunday lunch again in a hurry. I think the Argus is brilliant for keeping this campaign up.
george smith
says...
5:25pm Wed 27 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:Are you a version of J Harrs?
fred clause wrote:I can almost see your bottom lip protruding! Don't have nightmares about Brighton becoming a ghost town - it's just not going to happen because of some changes in car parking charges. Aren't you willing to give it a year or so to see what happens? Or do you foresee a ghost town scenario happening by the end of August if the council doesn't reverse it's policy?tartanesque wrote: The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.I think you need to get your head out of the sand our prices our some of the highest in the country and yes it is having an effect on our tourist trade and our buisnesses much like the numptys you voted for you obvioulsy wont be happy untill we have become a ghost town.
The Real Phil
says...
5:42pm Wed 27 Jun 12
keswick wrote:So keswick would prefer the BNP. Enough said.
tartanesque wrote:You voted for these green's and you are therefore responsible in your own way for the systamatic destruction of this city by a small number of people hell-bent on pursuing their ideology regardless of the consequences. Even the tories are better than this mob, come to it I would even prefer the BNP.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
keswick
says...
7:42pm Wed 27 Jun 12
tartanesque wrote:You know absolutely nothing about me so don't make judgement's about me because I happen to disagree with you. You talk about democracy but don't like it when someone challenges your views. But then the clue may be in your original post, green voter and cyclist.
keswick wrote:Well, change is inevitable and is hard for lots of people - clearly you are one of them. I prefer change through the democratic process from a party such as the Greens rather than racist/homophobic thugs like the BNP. I don't think the council are imposing a "systematic destruction" of the city - that's a bit over the top don't you think? And you could say that whatever party is voted in are likely to pursue their ideology. Thank goodness voters such as yourself continually fail to elect the fascist BNP - I hate to imagine what types of changes they would want to bring in.... Thanks for your feedback - I'm grateful that you took the time to read and respond to my post:)tartanesque wrote: The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.You voted for these green's and you are therefore responsible in your own way for the systamatic destruction of this city by a small number of people hell-bent on pursuing their ideology regardless of the consequences. Even the tories are better than this mob, come to it I would even prefer the BNP.
You may well have seen that the vast majority of posts about many subjects show that lot's of people in this city do not support what the greens are doing to this city. I hope that they enjoy their brief flirtation with power as they have shown that they are totally incapable.
Joshiman
says...
11:20am Thu 28 Jun 12
righton is a gridlocked and expensive place to visit.Another year and you can kiss tourism goodbye.
Fercri Sakes
says...
12:54pm Thu 28 Jun 12
Joshiman wrote:I voted Green because I wasn't clueless about the major parties. Haven't you see the national news in the last four years? Labour giving the banking sector a free ride to destroy the economy. Conservatives and LibDems doing drastic things to the NHS, education and policing against everything they said in their manifestos.
Dont admit voting Green.You just prove to everyone that you are all clueless,naive and basically give the impression that you are all just a bunch of middle class new age trendy hippy types.Real ordinary people have to work,pay bills,shop etc..The parking charges have just forced shoppers to go to other towns like Eastbourne/Crawley.B
righton is a gridlocked and expensive place to visit.Another year and you can kiss tourism goodbye.
I think I'm a real person. I work, pay bills, don't really shop that much though - who needs more tat?
Let's see if tourism has waved goodbye next year shall we? If Eastbourne and Bognor start booming and we get left far behind then you'll be correct and I'll eat my words. I doubt it though.
You wait till the next sunny weekend. Brighton will be busier than ever.
TheDrive
says...
2:08pm Fri 29 Jun 12
tartanesque
says...
4:17pm Fri 29 Jun 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:I was just expressing an opinion darling - that's a bit different from lying. But thanks so much for reading and responding to my post:)
tartanesque wrote:Average? Try visiting Seaford, Worthing or Eastbourne and then come back and say the parking prices are 'average'. Jeez, I don't mind you being in favour of the higher prices, but you don't do yourself any favours by lying about facts.
The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me.
I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist.
It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them!
Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently.
Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.
tartanesque
says...
4:22pm Fri 29 Jun 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:I don't remember mentioning anything about Lewes Road - think you've gone a bit off-topic? Still, your views are thrilling - thanks for sharing. I hope your poor lungs make a speedy recovery. Have you contacted your Green councillor to let them know about your situation? You never know, it might make them reverse their policies.
oh and tartanesque, it's galling that the greens said the Lewes Road transport plan would be good for cyclists, when I have since discovered that there is plans for a bus depot in Hollingbury so even more buses will head along Lewes Road spewing out fumes to reach the depot and that's in addition to the number 25 which trundles along the route every five minutes almost empty and some mornings I am pedalling behind four number 25s in a row almost all empty.
I can tell you breathing in diesel deep into your lungs is **** and now I find out that the Lewes Road will have more traffic on it.
I feel utterly lied to and cheated.
tartanesque
says...
4:29pm Fri 29 Jun 12
mimseycal wrote:You obviously have internet access - do you never shop online and get stuff delivered?
I for one would not and have not, done any shopping in Brighton due to parking charges.
Now that I have a wheelchair that can access the local buses, I do occasionally go into the centre but if any large spending is required, such as my weekly shopping or items for the house, I go out of town. Even with the added cost of petrol, it still works out cheaper.
I have done for years and prefer it to having to deal with huffy adolescents, screaming young children and grumpy parents at the actual shops - not to mention the terrible customer service in most shops these days.
Maybe give it a go sometime and see what you think? There are some great deals on delivery costs - often it's free. Will save you loads on parking/petrol costs.
RottingdeanRant
says...
4:30pm Fri 29 Jun 12
tartanesque
says...
4:41pm Fri 29 Jun 12
keswick wrote:I know that you would like the BNP to be running the council. As someone else said, enough said.
tartanesque wrote:You know absolutely nothing about me so don't make judgement's about me because I happen to disagree with you. You talk about democracy but don't like it when someone challenges your views. But then the clue may be in your original post, green voter and cyclist.
keswick wrote:Well, change is inevitable and is hard for lots of people - clearly you are one of them. I prefer change through the democratic process from a party such as the Greens rather than racist/homophobic thugs like the BNP. I don't think the council are imposing a "systematic destruction" of the city - that's a bit over the top don't you think? And you could say that whatever party is voted in are likely to pursue their ideology. Thank goodness voters such as yourself continually fail to elect the fascist BNP - I hate to imagine what types of changes they would want to bring in.... Thanks for your feedback - I'm grateful that you took the time to read and respond to my post:)tartanesque wrote: The parking prices are hardly "sky high" - they seem average to me. I voted for the greens and I'm delighted with the actions they are taking to change car use in the city - including their plans to reduce the speed limit to 20 in many areas. I speak as a pedestrian, car driver (I need one for work at destinations outside the city) and cyclist. It is far too soon to make judgements about the impact on businesses in the city. The scheme should be given more time - at least 1 year - then have a proper analysis to understand the situation more clearly rather than listening to screeching business owners - there's more to the city than them! Many car drivers in Brighton (and elsewhere) are extremely agressive and impatient and seem to think they own the roads. Let's have more emphasis on safety and not pander to people who needlessly drive the shortest distances because they can't be bothered to think a bit differently. Brighton has and always will be popular with tourists and others - changes to parking charges and speed restrictions won't make any difference to businesses, in my opinion.You voted for these green's and you are therefore responsible in your own way for the systamatic destruction of this city by a small number of people hell-bent on pursuing their ideology regardless of the consequences. Even the tories are better than this mob, come to it I would even prefer the BNP.
You may well have seen that the vast majority of posts about many subjects show that lot's of people in this city do not support what the greens are doing to this city. I hope that they enjoy their brief flirtation with power as they have shown that they are totally incapable.
tartanesque
says...
5:11pm Fri 29 Jun 12
Joshiman wrote:Trying to see some logic in your post - failed. Why exactly does saying I voted Green mean that I'm clueless etc? Or that I'm not a real person? Or that I don't have to work, pay bills, shop etc?
Dont admit voting Green.You just prove to everyone that you are all clueless,naive and basically give the impression that you are all just a bunch of middle class new age trendy hippy types.Real ordinary people have to work,pay bills,shop etc..The parking charges have just forced shoppers to go to other towns like Eastbourne/Crawley.B
righton is a gridlocked and expensive place to visit.Another year and you can kiss tourism goodbye.
If you want to have a debate about something maybe try a little harder to make a rational point?
We are all entitled to our opinions darling - if you don't agree with someone you don't need to make silly and unfounded assumptions about them.
Kate234
says...
7:58am Mon 2 Jul 12
tartanesque wrote:As a result of doing all your shopping online the city centre will become empty as the shops close down. Brighton has been successful in the past at ensuring our shops are filled. No shops means Brighton looks like most other seaside towns (an empty towns with boarded up shops and an influx of crime). I don't want to live in a city that looks like that unlike the Green party. Also who will employ the students and people that rely on jobs in these shops that need to pay their rent or mortgages. It is selfish of you to expect them all to commute to London or claim social security.
mimseycal wrote:You obviously have internet access - do you never shop online and get stuff delivered?
I for one would not and have not, done any shopping in Brighton due to parking charges.
Now that I have a wheelchair that can access the local buses, I do occasionally go into the centre but if any large spending is required, such as my weekly shopping or items for the house, I go out of town. Even with the added cost of petrol, it still works out cheaper.
I have done for years and prefer it to having to deal with huffy adolescents, screaming young children and grumpy parents at the actual shops - not to mention the terrible customer service in most shops these days.
Maybe give it a go sometime and see what you think? There are some great deals on delivery costs - often it's free. Will save you loads on parking/petrol costs.
mimseycal
says...
8:15am Mon 2 Jul 12
Ultimately though everyone has a responsibility for their own expenditure. If that means that places like Brighton, with excessive parking charges, get avoided ... so be it.
davyboy says...
1:45pm Tue 26 Jun 12