Sussex pupils 'play up to get suspension holiday'

4:40pm Wednesday 4th July 2012 in News By Anna Roberts, Crime reporter

Pupils are deliberately behaving badly so that they will be excluded from class and have a “holiday” from school.

Youngsters at schools in East Sussex, which permanently excluded 109 children between September 2010 and July 2011, are believed to be acting up so that they can have time off.

Now a number of schools in East Sussex are taking part in a trial which means that if they exclude more than their “agreed limit” of pupils, they could face heavy financial penalties.

This can be up to £16,000 per pupil.

The report said if this trial – which started in April – was judged successful then it could be introduced countywide in a bid to cut the number of children being excluded.

It said it was hoped that this would encourage East Sussex schools to “manage less serious behavioural problems within the school” and therefore reduce the numbers of pupils that had been excluded.

The matters were referred to in a scrutiny report of school exclusions during an East Sussex County Council cabinet meeting yesterday.

Take responsibility The report, by councillors Martin Kenward and Michael Ensor, said: “For exclusions to be effective, a sanction needs to be unwanted.

“However, anecdotal evidence suggests that some children see a period of exclusion as a welcome ‘holiday’, and actively behave in a manner to bring about their exclusion.”

The report said that schools had to “take responsibility for retaining and managing the problems of behaviour and exclusion themselves”.

The council said it was particularly concerned about the levels of exclusions from primary schools, the number of children with special educational needs being excluded from school and the number of fixed term exclusions at secondary schools.

David Elkin, the council’s lead member for children’s and adults’ services, said: “Our behaviour and attendance team continues to work with schools to address levels of exclusions and to look at new ways of supporting them in responding to challenging behaviour. We need to understand why we still have high levels of exclusion and we need to learn from the schools that are not excluding pupils.

“Excluding pupils does not solve the problem of bad behaviour – it just moves it somewhere else. However, we must be very clear that this is about finding more solutions within schools, not in any way tolerating bad behaviour or disruption in the classroom.”

Comments(24)

GemMitchell says...
5:31pm Wed 4 Jul 12

This is only making the news now?! Teachers have known this for years but sometimes, when a child is dangerous to other children, adults or property, they HAVE to be excluded. Punishing the schools by 'charging' them large amounts of money WILL dissuade them from excluding, yes. But all it will mean is a child, who really could be a danger to others and who does not want to cooperate with the education system, will remain a problem for all involved at the school. Other solutions are needed.

Report this post »

Ringmer Rich says...
6:19pm Wed 4 Jul 12

Mr Elkin, if your team is working to address these problems with the schools, and the strategies proposed by your team are effective, just what is the purpose of the fines?

Are you suggesting that these schools are not taking their responsibilities seriously and have not followed lengthy procedures, exhausting all other avenues before issuing the ultimate sanction?

Are not all the incidents recorded, and various strategies initiated at each stage to enable a change in behaviour also recorded?

As to comparisons between schools with high exclusion rates and those with very few, I sincerely hope you are comparing schools that have similar intakes of special needs, poor families (free school meals) and diverse cultural backgrounds and said schools are situated in areas that are similarly prosperous or deprived.

All of this I somewhat doubt. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that you are the ones taking the quick and easy option of trying to bring about change through an aggressive fear inducing tactic.

Report this post »

charlie smirke says...
7:38pm Wed 4 Jul 12

mimseycal wrote:
Pensalising the school is not the answer. Have a central location where all excluded pupils and students must spend their school hours whilst on exclusion. Don't let them have their phones, computers or music players. They'll soon learn that misbehaving for a day off doesn't pay
This is a good idea but I think they could take it further and send them to secure units. They could stay there 24/7 until they learn to behave like human beings instead of little thugs.

Report this post »

pwlr1966 says...
8:00pm Wed 4 Jul 12

fredflintstone1 wrote:
They don't have this problem at Varndean. Their students simply climb out and rampage around the streets anyway. You phone the school when you property is damaged - they never get back to you. Can't see how they'd suspend anyone on this basis anyway.
Bevendean is the same, the head apears to be scared of the kids, weak leadership i.m.h.o

Report this post »

Brightonlad86 says...
8:05pm Wed 4 Jul 12

Agree.. These KIDS (because I don't believe in all this 'young adult' guff) need to be sent to a central location.

They should have a 'prison van' type vehicle collect them from home and drive them to this unit. At the unit there should be individual 'cells' which the kids are put in. Whilst in these cells they are educated via video link, which support staff available to assist them with any difficulties they have.

Any parent who fails to ensure their child gets on the bus should be fined!

Either that or, bring back the cane!! It never done my grandparents/parents any harm!!!!

Report this post »

nicole/bob says...
8:27pm Wed 4 Jul 12

Have to say, this world (particularly that part of it in Brighton & Hove) gets madder by the minute.

It is ridiculous to fine schools for expelling pupils who deliberately act in such a way.

Surely the parents are the ones who should be fined and have not seen one single comment about the impact this is having on all of the other non-disruptive kids' education.

No doubt the parent(s) of the former are either too thick or dissinterested to think about keeping their kids in check themselves as they probably belong to this ever growing "couldn't give a monkey's" sub-culture as long as they get get their freebee benefits/fags/booze.


This place has sadly degenerated into a cesspit.

Bob, Hove

Report this post »

hubby says...
8:42pm Wed 4 Jul 12

I am a teacher in Spain and have been for nine years.
Call me lucky,but I have never been sworn at,spat at or threatened physically or verbally.
There is definately a cultural difference,because if you tell kids they will never amount to anything then they will start to believe it.
I care about every child I teach,and I hope I make a difference to their lives.
Too many teachers pick up a wage packet and forget about the reasons they got into the job!

Report this post »

Ligand Fields says...
8:44pm Wed 4 Jul 12

spare the rod and spoil the child! (Oh sorry, will I get put on a register for saying that...?)

Report this post »

davyboy says...
10:05pm Wed 4 Jul 12

the 'secure' centre is a very good idea in principle, but how to get the kids there? the concept of picking them up is good, but i fear they will not be there when the 'special' bus arrives. maybe repeat offenders should be housed in 24/7 units, away from all the nice things in life, like phones, games consoles and tv! parents also need to be involved, as do the schools, as maybe bullying is the reason these kids truant in the first place. most head teachers will say there is no bullying in their schools, and they are all lying!!! it is rife throughout the education system, but most teachers turn a blind eye. it is about time the police got involved in the most serious cases, and criminal proceedings brought against bullies and their parents.

Report this post »

longman says...
10:27pm Wed 4 Jul 12

Until education is valued in ALL households, there is always going to be truanting! If a parent's attitude is that education is a waste of time, then the teachers dont stand a chance in disciplining the child in school. Television programmes such as 'Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' doesnt help when they show children of 11 leaving school to 'help' around the home. Bullying is just another issue! Perhaps heads of state schools should look at the independent sector and try to understand why there are fewer incidents of truanting! As the slipper and other methods of physical punishment is now illegal in schools, there must be other methods of punishment that work in such schools. There are many private schools that have 30+ kids in a class, so bad behaviour not all down to over-crowding!

Report this post »

nicole/bob says...
10:33pm Wed 4 Jul 12

Sure, bullying goes on , always has and always will but my best guess is that the majority of bullies are these mindless feral louts who disrupt classes.

Used to teach English (or tried to) to foreign language "students" at three different private schools in Hove...most were OK but had to leave as found they were chaotic, zero disciplined with many so called students either not attending lessons or when they did were high on drugs or bragged about having had fights with the police ending up with a night in the cells hence their non-attendance the next day!

The Principals would not act as they were only interested in the money.

You had to be there

Bob, Hove

Report this post »

adorable says...
8:30am Thu 5 Jul 12

If the children were disciplined correctly by their parents they would behave in school and want to learn. Can you imagine what the next generation will be like? We have already lost Please and Thank You.

Report this post »

Morpheus says...
8:55am Thu 5 Jul 12

The idea of a fine to control this is ridiculous. Only councillors could come up with this crazy idea.

Report this post »

Tallywhacker says...
9:06am Thu 5 Jul 12

Why the big surprise? A politicians solution for any problem consists of....A) Give more money to solve the problem....B) Take money away to solve the problem... So there you are. After lots of meetings, expert consultants, more meetings etc all of which costs tax money we are essentially being ruled by the theory of flipping a coin and heads or tails. Which one comes up that's what they'll do.

Report this post »

Andy R says...
9:43am Thu 5 Jul 12

Anyone else notice that this article contains no evidence to justify the headline?!!

Report this post »

EricTheKing says...
9:47am Thu 5 Jul 12

Bring back National Service......quickly
!!

Report this post »

mimseycal says...
9:49am Thu 5 Jul 12

It is just in the grand old tradition of sweeping it under the carpet; organised by a bunch of myopic politicos who cannot see beyond the end of their facial protuberances. These people aren't capable of dealing with the situation so they reckon by threatening the schools with a fine, they will ensure the numbers will go down, as schools will be reluctant to incur the fine, they will not exclude oiks from the classroom; statistically then they can claim that it has worked as the numbers will drop.

That we will end up with disrupted classes, larger numbers of disaffected and disinterested youth and a victorious underclass of feral yobs is a different issue and so not their concern at this moment.

Report this post »

mimseycal says...
9:50am Thu 5 Jul 12

EricTheKing wrote:
Bring back National Service......quickly

!!
The army wouldn't want this unruly mob. What we need is regular boot-camps for these oiks.

Report this post »

Ligand Fields says...
10:04am Thu 5 Jul 12

Andy R wrote:
Anyone else notice that this article contains no evidence to justify the headline?!!
Er, this is The Argos you're reading! What did you expect?

Report this post »

mimseycal says...
10:23am Thu 5 Jul 12

Ligand Fields wrote:
Andy R wrote:
Anyone else notice that this article contains no evidence to justify the headline?!!
Er, this is The Argos you're reading! What did you expect?
In all fairness, the headline refers to the anecdotal evidence on which councillors are basing their findings.

Though from listening to some of these youngsters, here on a sink estate, I must admit that there is some truth in the anecdotes.

Report this post »

EricTheKing says...
12:08pm Thu 5 Jul 12

mimseycal wrote:
EricTheKing wrote:
Bring back National Service......quickly


!!
The army wouldn't want this unruly mob. What we need is regular boot-camps for these oiks.
Well said...

Report this post »

Cllr Ensor says...
4:36pm Thu 5 Jul 12

I think it is good that the ESCC Scrutiny Review on the practice of some schools to exclude children has caused such interest. The evidence showed that excluding some students does not achieve an improvement of the schools overall academic attainment, but it certainly reduces the engagement of those students excluded.

Since each school receives funding for each student, it is logical that the funding is withdrawn when the student is excluded. However ESCC still has the responsibility to provide education for an excluded student, and this costs even more.

There are better ways to tackle "challenging behaviour", and this is best done in the school setting and in the family. The parents and carers of a child have a huge role in preparing the child for a day at school, and encouraging their child when they arrive home.

The Scrutiny Review highlights the urgent need for schools, parents and carers, Governors, and also ESCC, to closely look at better options before considering exclusions. This can only be an option of "last resort", and I am sure that Headteachers already know this.

Report this post »

mimseycal says...
9:55pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Quite frankly Cllr Ensor it may seem logical to you and on a purely fiscal level I agree. However it does not address the problem that exists, namely that some kids will actively invite exclusion and serial exclusions at that.

I agree that the parents and carers of children have a role to play in keeping a child engaged in the education process, however sadly there are evidently children who do not get that support at home. Are you going to accept that we do not have a duty towards those children?

Report this post »

nicole/bob says...
12:19am Fri 6 Jul 12

Cllr Ensor...just not sure which planet you come from...you appear to be more interested in feral out of control kids and their no-mark families than the welfare and education of genuine students who come from good.well disciplned familes.

You sir, are a complete disgrace.

Bob, Hove

Report this post »

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree