Measles hits record high in Sussex (From The Argus)

Any chance the Argus are going to apologise for helping to cause this measles epidemic, by relentlessly spreading anti-vaccine woo? Thought not...
Yet still Anna Roberts has the gall to stick "because of fears over the safety of the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) jab" into her article. Irresponsible specious guff.

Ligand Fields wrote:
Any chance the Argus are going to apologise for helping to cause this measles epidemic, by relentlessly spreading anti-vaccine woo? Thought not... Yet still Anna Roberts has the gall to stick "because of fears over the safety of the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) jab" into her article. Irresponsible specious guff.

you have a something of a bee in your bonnet about this. Granted the media perpetuated the myth in the past but you tell me how the Argus should report this story ? (which is an important one). They have clearly stated that people are not taking up the vaccine due to fears over its saftey. They article continues "is despite any link between the jab and autism having been dismissed". I do undertand you ire against the media historically but taking a quote completey out of context and making out Anna R is perpetuating a myth when that clearly isnt the case just seems a bit weirdo vendetta-like to me.....

The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

You got something against wierdos? Quick! Is there a diversity officer in the house?!? :-O

Ligand Fields wrote:
You got something against wierdos? Quick! Is there a diversity officer in the house?!? :-O

Not when their weirdness only affects themselves, no! In this case, however...

wietraurig wrote:

Ligand Fields wrote: You got something against wierdos? Quick! Is there a diversity officer in the house?!? :-O

Not when their weirdness only affects themselves, no! In this case, however...

Sorry, I was talking to Spanners! :)

wietraurig wrote:
The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

Yes but the point is that none of these woomeister hippie-brained loons have ever done any actual clinical research themselves - all their woo-fears come from reading about this nonsense in the media. Most journalists currently seem to have this idiot notion that you have to provide "balance" by including equal numbers of facts and lies in your article.

Ligand Fields wrote:

wietraurig wrote:
The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

Yes but the point is that none of these woomeister hippie-brained loons have ever done any actual clinical research themselves - all their woo-fears come from reading about this nonsense in the media. Most journalists currently seem to have this idiot notion that you have to provide "balance" by including equal numbers of facts and lies in your article.

I agree that such kind of reporting doesn't help, although I doubt that many people make their minds up from reading a rag like the Argus. I suspect we're on the same side on this one though.

my daughter has just been allowed home after 4 days in hospital, 2 in intensive care due to measles complications leading to pneumonia. she is 8 months old today and we almost lost her. parents must vaccinate! noones telling them what to do, just advising them on the health of their children. GPs and medical researchers dont make it up as they go along, if a vaccine is offered it should be taken! it is not fair to children under one that other parents so irresponsibly ignore the fact that the mmr can prevent life threatening illnesses. i have been unfortunate enough to see what measles can do, and how quickly! i urge everyone to vaccinate their children before this gets out of control! also, schools should think about introducing an mmr only intake!!!

Ligand Fields wrote:

wietraurig wrote:

Ligand Fields wrote: You got something against wierdos? Quick! Is there a diversity officer in the house?!? :-O

Not when their weirdness only affects themselves, no! In this case, however...

Sorry, I was talking to Spanners! :)

nope - I love a weirdo ( Ilive in Brighton after all ). And I totally in agreement that media historically help spread discredited autism linked MMR hysteria. I also totally agree that kids should be vaccinated and not simply given some organic quinoa, jade healing stones and taken for walks along ley lines. All I'm trying to say is that the article (this one right above ^, as apposed to others in history) does clearly state the link was discredited. this is true. It also clearly states that SOME people still wont give their kids the vaccine due to their fears over its saftey. This is also true - people do still have these fears. Perhaps they should add that the people who have these fears are completely ignorant of the facts

The quickest way to remove the MMR issue is for the NHS to offer both MMR and single jabs. Of course that's far too clever an idea for the authorities to come up with.

go spanners! ignorant hippies making my daughter so ill, they need to move to some commune somewhere where they could live in a virus spreading haven together and the rest of us can get on happy and healthy!

Amymyall good luck for your daughter's recovery, what a terrible ordeal.

We also have a young child and when the measles outbreaks started to be more frequent it was a nervous wait until they were old enough to get vaccinated.

My guess is that there is a cohort of older children that were not vaccinated due to the MMR scare and act as a measles reservoir (I can't understand why anyone now would not vacinate a young child). If they get measles, then generally it is not that serious for them, however the real victims are the children too young to be vaccinated and sadly Amymyall's daughter is one of those victims.

amymyall wrote:
my daughter has just been allowed home after 4 days in hospital, 2 in intensive care due to measles complications leading to pneumonia. she is 8 months old today and we almost lost her. parents must vaccinate! noones telling them what to do, just advising them on the health of their children. GPs and medical researchers dont make it up as they go along, if a vaccine is offered it should be taken! it is not fair to children under one that other parents so irresponsibly ignore the fact that the mmr can prevent life threatening illnesses. i have been unfortunate enough to see what measles can do, and how quickly! i urge everyone to vaccinate their children before this gets out of control! also, schools should think about introducing an mmr only intake!!!

Did you not vaccinate your daughter, then?

Ligand Fields wrote:

amymyall wrote: my daughter has just been allowed home after 4 days in hospital, 2 in intensive care due to measles complications leading to pneumonia. she is 8 months old today and we almost lost her. parents must vaccinate! noones telling them what to do, just advising them on the health of their children. GPs and medical researchers dont make it up as they go along, if a vaccine is offered it should be taken! it is not fair to children under one that other parents so irresponsibly ignore the fact that the mmr can prevent life threatening illnesses. i have been unfortunate enough to see what measles can do, and how quickly! i urge everyone to vaccinate their children before this gets out of control! also, schools should think about introducing an mmr only intake!!!

Did you not vaccinate your daughter, then?

NHS only vaccinate at 12-13months

amymyall wrote:
my daughter has just been allowed home after 4 days in hospital, 2 in intensive care due to measles complications leading to pneumonia. she is 8 months old today and we almost lost her. parents must vaccinate! noones telling them what to do, just advising them on the health of their children. GPs and medical researchers dont make it up as they go along, if a vaccine is offered it should be taken! it is not fair to children under one that other parents so irresponsibly ignore the fact that the mmr can prevent life threatening illnesses. i have been unfortunate enough to see what measles can do, and how quickly! i urge everyone to vaccinate their children before this gets out of control! also, schools should think about introducing an mmr only intake!!!

Sorry to hear this - must have been horrific

I belivee you need around 95% to be vaccinated to provide herd vaccination as its known. So it vitally important that we maintain this level in B&H

go spanners! ignorant hippies making my daughter so ill, they need to move to some commune somewhere where they could live in a virus spreading haven together and the rest of us can get on happy and healthy!

yes ligand, she didnt have the option, i knew she had been exposed so she had the mmr early but it didnt work, my 2 1/2 year old son was vaccinated at 12 months! id hope from what id written that you can tell im pro vaccination!!

Perhaps the Argus should have a 'name & shame' campaign against those vaccine denialists who've put so many children's lives at risk?

This all stems from irresponsible reporting in the first place and I seem to remember that the Daily Fail was at the forefront, a paper not known for its hippy readership.

Have you statistics for those children who cannot have the vaccine due to their own health issues? Not all parents are 'hippies' and decided not to vaccinate their kids because it is trendy not to. Dont tar all parents with the same brush! I am sorry your daughter was so ill, but another parent might well have lost their child due to a reaction to the vaccine and YES my children have been vaccinated against MMR!

HJarrs wrote:
This all stems from irresponsible reporting in the first place and I seem to remember that the Daily Fail was at the forefront, a paper not known for its hippy readership.

Scratch and sniff any hippy and you'll find a reactionary git underneath...

My eldest was vaccinated 12 years ago, and it was a difficult decision at the time because the reporting in the media and from other parents verged on hysteria. In the end, I went with the numbers: children have been having the MMR in the USA, Canada and Western Europe since the 1970s. For me, hundreds of millions of children trumped 8 cases from that later discredited study. My (healthy) children could probably have got the MMR diseases with no problems, but I could not have lived with myself if my pregnant friend and neighbour had given birth to a baby damaged by her contact with my children. There are loads of children aged 13-18 who are not vaccinated. The HPA should be in Secondary schools in B&H getting these children vaccinated - they can give their own consent without parental permission at that age. Good luck Amy.

longman wrote:
Have you statistics for those children who cannot have the vaccine due to their own health issues? Not all parents are 'hippies' and decided not to vaccinate their kids because it is trendy not to. Dont tar all parents with the same brush! I am sorry your daughter was so ill, but another parent might well have lost their child due to a reaction to the vaccine and YES my children have been vaccinated against MMR!

no but we do have nhs stats for those who have a reaction to the vaccine. Less than 1 in 100,000. And that is not deaths but a serious reaction. Full recovery occurs in majority of cases. On the other hand there many and varied serious complications to getting measles - especially in the under 2 and over 20. Just one of these is always fatal and occurs in 1 in 100,000 (SSPE). So, whatever way you look at it - its clearly statisically far less risky to your childs continued survival to vaccinate than not vaccinate

longman wrote:
Have you statistics for those children who cannot have the vaccine due to their own health issues? Not all parents are 'hippies' and decided not to vaccinate their kids because it is trendy not to. Dont tar all parents with the same brush! I am sorry your daughter was so ill, but another parent might well have lost their child due to a reaction to the vaccine and YES my children have been vaccinated against MMR!

Yeah and another parent might have lost their child from being run over by a bus or struck by lightning on the way to the vaccination clinic. Your point being?

longman wrote:
Have you statistics for those children who cannot have the vaccine due to their own health issues? Not all parents are 'hippies' and decided not to vaccinate their kids because it is trendy not to. Dont tar all parents with the same brush! I am sorry your daughter was so ill, but another parent might well have lost their child due to a reaction to the vaccine and YES my children have been vaccinated against MMR!

Additionally, the Brighton and Hove takeup rate is about 85% for MMR. Of the remaining 15% only a tiny proportaion are medically unable to have the vaccine. How do I know ? Well, unles there is something unique to B&H that does not exist in the combined population in the rest of UK, Europe, Canada and US where take up rates are up in the high 90's

This must be a record: an Argus article with nearly 30-odd comments, and nearly all of them sensible. Has there been an outbreak of rationality alongside the measles??

wietraurig wrote:
This must be a record: an Argus article with nearly 30-odd comments, and nearly all of them sensible. Has there been an outbreak of rationality alongside the measles??

No, it's probably just that many of the vaccine-denialists are now too sick to make it to their computers. Darwinism in action, really.

In the comments above there is frequent reference to the debunking of MMR problems and that it's all the fault of the disenters.
So in the interests of fairness I would like the pro-group to explain the errors ine the following.
1. What is wrong in the legal argument of Valentino Bocca in Italy. The Court has found in favour of the family that there is a causal link between the vaccine and MMR.
There are a further 64 cases about to come to court.
2. Since 1998 there have been 19 further studies by Dr Wakefield implicating the vaccine with the inflammatory bowel disease.
As all of these papers were peer reviewed and did not need retraction perhaps you could pick just one of these studies and highlight the errors in reasoning.
3. There are a further 28 studies from around the world which unfortuneately support Dr Wakefield. Again you could pick one and outline the errors.
4. In 2006 at the International Meeting for Autism Research, Stephen J. Walker, Ph.D.gave the details of prelim findings confirming Dr. Wakefield's contested work.
A research team, Wake Forest Uni School of Medicne, North Carolina examined children with regressive autism and bowel disorder disease and out of 82 tested so far 70 showed positive for the vaccine strain of the measles virus as opposed the wild strain which is the same as found by Dr. Wakefield in 1998.
Doesn't prove with 100% certainty to my mind but I would like to see a decent argumnet in the errors of this research.
There is always room for improvement of any drug however administered and we should always ask informed questions so the risks can be assessd. There should still be the single vaccine available.
In 2009 the US District Court of Claims ( the Vaccine Court ) ruled in favour of federal vaccine injury award to a young boy that developed PDD. Parents argued he had the first seizure 16 days after the first MMR vaccination.
For me I think it's time this was sorted. Are there risks or not?
If the risks are substantive then we should be going down another route with a safer vaccine.

Rational wiki has a good article on this http://rationalwiki.
org/wiki/Vaccine_hys
teria

wietraurig wrote:
This must be a record: an Argus article with nearly 30-odd comments, and nearly all of them sensible. Has there been an outbreak of rationality alongside the measles??

I was thinking that! Add me to the list of people who had nothing but contempt for the parents who refused the MMR vaccine. It's tempting to say their behaviour was inexcusable, but I'll be kind and say they just weren't very bright and were swayed by all the hysterical scare stories in the media.

> 1. What is wrong in the legal argument of Valentino Bocca in Italy.

ANSWER: it's incorrect. Hint: bribing an Italian court doesn't count as scientific evidence.


> 2. Since 1998 there have been 19 further studies by Dr Wakefield implicating the vaccine with the inflammatory bowel disease.

ANSWER: No, there haven't been.

> 3. There are a further 28 studies from around the world which unfortuneately support Dr Wakefield.

ANSWER: No, there aren't.

> 4. In 2006 at the International Meeting for Autism Research, Stephen J. Walker, Ph.D.gave the details of prelim findings confirming Dr. Wakefield's contested work.

ANSWER: No, he didn't

Hope that clarifies all the above for you.

Lostandaway proving a perfect example! He/she's trawled the world and out of all the BILLIONS of worldwide jabs he's found a few examples where there may have been side effects. You couldn't do a similar study about asprin.

Yes and of course let's not forget that most of these vaccine-deniers are actually shills for the deeply unethical multi-billion euro alternative medicine industry, which makes vast pots of cash peddling snake oil and fake remedies to the gullible. And spends a fortune blithering propaganda on the Internet trying to make the case for their scams.

Ligand Fields wrote:
Perhaps the Argus should have a 'name & shame' campaign against those vaccine denialists who've put so many children's lives at risk?

Maybe the person who should be at the top of a list of those endangering children's lives is a certain Mr Blair...

He had the opportunity to knock the building panic on it's head by revealing whether his son Leo had had the MMR jab...

Ho chose not to, and ever since the uptake has been lower than it would have been otherwise...

It would have not been seen as making a precedent as he claimed - it would have been a simple calming measure by a responsible leader....

So yet another debacle can be placed at his door!!

Be fair - MMR vaccine is safe for human kids, but could be quite dangerous for Blair's lizard brood.

http://amycmyall.blo
g.com/2012/07/05/my-
story-of-why-the-mmr
-vaccine-is-so-impor
tant/

My point is that parents may well want to PROTECT their child by NOT having the vaccine!

in 2010, there were 139 300 measles deaths globally!
try and find a statistic for for how many deaths caused by the MMR there were in 2010?

Ligand Fields wrote:

wietraurig wrote:
The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

Yes but the point is that none of these woomeister hippie-brained loons have ever done any actual clinical research themselves - all their woo-fears come from reading about this nonsense in the media. Most journalists currently seem to have this idiot notion that you have to provide "balance" by including equal numbers of facts and lies in your article.

We don't vaccinate... you want to check out the literal mountains of research from medical journals we have filed away in folders to back up our decision? Probably not, it doesn't agree with your government-mandated thought process so Must Be Wrong. (Hint: Autism didn't even come into the equation...).

Btw, how many of you have any idea about the link between severity of measles and vitamin A deficiency? The impact of sodium ascorbate on the body during times of illness? Etc etc etc.... do some homework yourselves and stop blathering on in a state of pure cognitive dissonance about something none of you have clearly researched properly (NHS brochures don't count!).

Though, I do understand that there's nothing like group mentality to make a person feel accepted and validated. ;-)

notasheeple wrote:

Ligand Fields wrote:

wietraurig wrote:
The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

Yes but the point is that none of these woomeister hippie-brained loons have ever done any actual clinical research themselves - all their woo-fears come from reading about this nonsense in the media. Most journalists currently seem to have this idiot notion that you have to provide "balance" by including equal numbers of facts and lies in your article.

We don't vaccinate... you want to check out the literal mountains of research from medical journals we have filed away in folders to back up our decision? Probably not, it doesn't agree with your government-mandated thought process so Must Be Wrong. (Hint: Autism didn't even come into the equation...).

Btw, how many of you have any idea about the link between severity of measles and vitamin A deficiency? The impact of sodium ascorbate on the body during times of illness? Etc etc etc.... do some homework yourselves and stop blathering on in a state of pure cognitive dissonance about something none of you have clearly researched properly (NHS brochures don't count!).

Though, I do understand that there's nothing like group mentality to make a person feel accepted and validated. ;-)

I don't believe you have the skills to critically appraise the evidence.

Prove me wrong:

cite something from the "mountains of research" you have that you think is good evidence supporting your decision.

notasheeple wrote:

Ligand Fields wrote:

wietraurig wrote:
The key point here is not what the Argus has or hasn't said in the past, but that other people's health has been affected by a cohort of demented Brighton hippies who seem to think that they can avoid serious diseases by sticking homeopathic crystals up their children's jacksies ... or some such.. when the NHS is offering them tried and tested, largely risk-free vaccinations for the same diseases.

Yes but the point is that none of these woomeister hippie-brained loons have ever done any actual clinical research themselves - all their woo-fears come from reading about this nonsense in the media. Most journalists currently seem to have this idiot notion that you have to provide "balance" by including equal numbers of facts and lies in your article.

We don't vaccinate... you want to check out the literal mountains of research from medical journals we have filed away in folders to back up our decision? Probably not, it doesn't agree with your government-mandated thought process so Must Be Wrong. (Hint: Autism didn't even come into the equation...).

Btw, how many of you have any idea about the link between severity of measles and vitamin A deficiency? The impact of sodium ascorbate on the body during times of illness? Etc etc etc.... do some homework yourselves and stop blathering on in a state of pure cognitive dissonance about something none of you have clearly researched properly (NHS brochures don't count!).

Though, I do understand that there's nothing like group mentality to make a person feel accepted and validated. ;-)

I think you BADLY need to look at this cartoon https://xkcd.com/101
3/

It's a typical woomeister ploy to claim that they have "researched" something themselves.... strangely, this "research" never involves doing double blind clinical trials or laboratory work, but generally means they read some ridiculous snake-oil selling websites and watched some YouTube videos with MELODRAMATIC MUSIC. Curiously, neither of these methods are generally regarded as a valid way to conduct medical research.

Ligand Fields wrote:
It's a typical woomeister ploy to claim that they have "researched" something themselves.... strangely, this "research" never involves doing double blind clinical trials or laboratory work, but generally means they read some ridiculous snake-oil selling websites and watched some YouTube videos with MELODRAMATIC MUSIC. Curiously, neither of these methods are generally regarded as a valid way to conduct medical research.

I don't think any of us are in a position to judge or even find all the research on vaccinations out there.

I can absolutely understand a parent's reluctance to watch needles being stuck into their children and injected with complicated vaccines, which few of us understand how they work. I certainly wasn't skipping with child to the doctor's on vaccination days.

However, for me, everything in the MMR or seperate vaccinations methods pointed out to a big risk being reduced with no or a possible small alternative risk being introduced. However, not having the vaccinations is not just a risk to that child, but also to other young children to whom the various diseases will be transmitted as is unfortunately the case for amymyall.

> "I don't think any of us are in a position to judge or even find all the research on vaccinations out there."

If only someone would invent search engines and citation indexes for medical literature! Oh wait...

Do you really think the pharmaceutical industry has the welfare of your children at heart? This story is from the Guardian this week.

Basically, what it says is Glaxo Smith Kline bribed doctors to prescribe unsuitable drugs to children, published an article in a medical journal mis-stating their drug's safety for children, ignored drug trials that had negative implications...

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/business/2012/
jul/03/glaxosmithkli
ne-fined-bribing-doc
tors-pharmaceuticals
?newsfeed=true

amymyall wrote:
my daughter has just been allowed home after 4 days in hospital, 2 in intensive care due to measles complications leading to pneumonia. she is 8 months old today and we almost lost her. parents must vaccinate! noones telling them what to do, just advising them on the health of their children. GPs and medical researchers dont make it up as they go along, if a vaccine is offered it should be taken! it is not fair to children under one that other parents so irresponsibly ignore the fact that the mmr can prevent life threatening illnesses. i have been unfortunate enough to see what measles can do, and how quickly! i urge everyone to vaccinate their children before this gets out of control! also, schools should think about introducing an mmr only intake!!!

You are so brave for coming forward and sharing your story. My son has autism, which he did not "contract" as a result of having received his MMR jab. There were signs of my son's disability long before the MMR vaccine was administered. I think the most important message to take away, though, is that VACCINES SAVE LIVES. I have no regrets about having had my son vaccinated, and I would do it again without hesitation. It is so important to safeguard not only our own children, but also those in the community who are among the most vulnerable. In my opinion, it is not just a civic responsibility it is a moral one. David Wakefield has been completely discredited--there are no excuses. Thank you for sharing, Amy. Sending lots of love to you and your family. XXX

Thank you so much for all of your support, all i want to do is raise awareness to people who may not understand how serious measles can be. it isnt always just a rash and flu like virus that can be made better at home, it can be life threatening and i feel some people just dont know that, to be honest, i didnt!

Get educated people!
http://www.kirkusrev
iews.com/book-review
s/paul-offit/deadly-
choices-anti-vaccine
-movement/#reviewe!

Read "Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens us All" by Paul A Offit.

Chaffinch1 wrote:
Do you really think the pharmaceutical industry has the welfare of your children at heart? This story is from the Guardian this week. Basically, what it says is Glaxo Smith Kline bribed doctors to prescribe unsuitable drugs to children, published an article in a medical journal mis-stating their drug's safety for children, ignored drug trials that had negative implications... http://www.guardian. co.uk/business/2012/ jul/03/glaxosmithkli ne-fined-bribing-doc tors-pharmaceuticals ?newsfeed=true

Do you really think the multi-billion euro fake-vitamin Acai Berry rhino-horn homeopathy-woo-fest industry has the welfare of your children at heart? Do you? REALLY??? We all saw what happened with HIV deaths in South Africa when denialists got into power. ALT PHARMA WANTS YOU DEAD.

@ Ligand Fields

I didn't say anything about homeopathy. I don't use homeopathic or any other alternative medicine or promote it.

Interestingly, though, you can get homeopathic treatment on the NHS.

Does that mean the NHS wants me dead too Ligand Field?

http://www.nhs.uk/ne
ws/2010/July07/Pages
/nhs-homeopathy.aspx

You can get clostridium difficile and MRSA on the NHS too, Chaffinch.... CONINCIDENCE???

Ligand Fields wrote:
You can get clostridium difficile and MRSA on the NHS too, Chaffinch.... CONINCIDENCE???

Not sure what your point is Ligand Fields.

What are we arguing about again?

I think it's interesting how the tides have turned...I never thought that being "pro" vaccine would make me a radical.

merry225 wrote:
I think it's interesting how the tides have turned...I never thought that being "pro" vaccine would make me a radical.

Alt-Pharma wants you dead!!

Signing off now...no disrespect, but I think you've lost the plot Ligand Fields.

Or could it be that fewer parents are taking their kids for these vaccinations because they are too lazy to turn Jeremy Kyle off and jump on a bus to get it done?

Or could it be that fewer parents are taking their kids for these vaccinations because they are too lazy to turn Jeremy Kyle off and jump on a bus to get it done?

merry225 wrote:
Signing off now...no disrespect, but I think you've lost the plot Ligand Fields.

Big pharma and big alternative pharma are both a bit evil: this has nothing to do with whether you should vaccinate, however.

merry225 wrote:
Signing off now...no disrespect, but I think you've lost the plot Ligand Fields.

Yep - best not to feed the trolls ;-)

Ligand fields- you cant get those on the nhs. you are either a carrier or not. thats why you are screened when you are in hospital. you just need the right environment!

Ligand Fields you seem particularly uncompromising in your views. Could I ask you do you spend a lot of time on the Internet or is it mainly vaccination that gets you going?

Many things get me going, starting from a well-turned ankle.

merry225 wrote:
Read "Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens us All" by Paul A Offit.

I went to a talk given by Paul Offit at an international scientific conference and it was awesome...evidence clearly shows you HAVE to vaccinate your children. As a scientist, this is one of my biggest irritations!!

I can imagine! Thank you for endorsing Paul Offit--Deadly Choices is really a must-read.