Bus services saved from axe in Brighton and Hove (From The Argus)

Why oh Why is it that lying politicians can say one thing yesterday do the opposite today and then carry on as if they were right all along. If this type of incompetence occurred in a private company people would lose their jobs.
One last question, how much did this cost us taxpayers?

Nice open government from the Greens then ...... NOT !

A Council Spokeperson says; "Ooh er... this is more unpopular than we thought and Labour are gaining some capital from it - Oh... look we just found some money down the back of the sofa - that was lucky..." etc. etc.

Astounding.
First they ask for 3.5 per cent council tax increase then tell us they have founda spare £4 million, then a key planning decision turns to chaos when the councillors do't know what they are supposed to vote on and now we have an administrative error.
Who on earth is running the council?
I wouldn't let these people water my plants while I'm on holiday.

i wonder how long it will be before the big lemon starts bleating on about too many buses going along the seafront . but the best thing of all is big lemons tickets cant be used on any b&h route so people will have to pay again to go anywhere else other than the marina. oops can the big lemon get wheelchairs on their really old buses oh no they cant well done the green party for really considering the elderly and disabled people i think the green party will be out on there ears come the next election good riddance to bad rubbish

Well, this is good news. It hardly matters whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn, the services have been saved. However, it is now up to people to use these services and keep them going.
At the end of the term of the current administration, despite savage cuts in government funding B&H will retain a bus almost, if not as comprehensive as the day the Greens became the lead party in the council.

Of course the usual moaners and groaners will not be pointing out the comparison between B&H and the swinging cuts to bus services in both Conservative run East and West Sussex, nor that it was Conservative legislation backed by 13 years of Labour government that results in it being against the law to cross subsidise loss making services from the revenue of profitable routes (unless you are in London!). The profit goes to the bus company!

I will say to passing comments about the big lemon bus company if we did not have them running along side B&H busses offering an alternative way of transport B&H busses would roll Hassan to say it is healthy to have competition to help keep down the rising cost of fears and secondly the big lemon busses use alternative full kinder to the environment unlike the B&H busses that still dote have any environmentally friendly busses.

O’ and I nearly forgot not only is council tax going up by 3.5 per cent wile they continue to make cuts they also plane to put a large screen on the seafront so people can watch the games one ponders who will be paying for this large screen on the seafront? Because I very much doubt its coming out of council funds.

wippasnapper wrote:
I will say to passing comments about the big lemon bus company if we did not have them running along side B&H busses offering an alternative way of transport B&H busses would roll Hassan to say it is healthy to have competition to help keep down the rising cost of fears and secondly the big lemon busses use alternative full kinder to the environment unlike the B&H busses that still dote have any environmentally friendly busses.

O’ and I nearly forgot not only is council tax going up by 3.5 per cent wile they continue to make cuts they also plane to put a large screen on the seafront so people can watch the games one ponders who will be paying for this large screen on the seafront? Because I very much doubt its coming out of council funds.

Brighton & Hove are running brand new Hybrid buses.

Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

rolivan wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

If you do your research I believe you will find that B&H DO NOT get any grants for new buses. However they can obtain a small grant - around 20% of the cost for hybrid buses which comes from EU sources. Either way the BL will not be investing in new easy access buses.

As for LPG hopefully a tech head can answer that point.

HJarrs wrote:
Well, this is good news. It hardly matters whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn, the services have been saved. However, it is now up to people to use these services and keep them going.
At the end of the term of the current administration, despite savage cuts in government funding B&H will retain a bus almost, if not as comprehensive as the day the Greens became the lead party in the council.

Of course the usual moaners and groaners will not be pointing out the comparison between B&H and the swinging cuts to bus services in both Conservative run East and West Sussex, nor that it was Conservative legislation backed by 13 years of Labour government that results in it being against the law to cross subsidise loss making services from the revenue of profitable routes (unless you are in London!). The profit goes to the bus company!

It is good news BUT it raises some questions, how does £60k get lost due to an administrative error ? How incompetent are this council ? How many other, as yet undiscovered, errors have lost the taxpayer money or a service ? We'll probably never know given the Greens seem keen not to provide the detail, indeed keen to cover it up. Could it have been a dodgy backhand deal between the council and B&H Buses ?

Fight Back wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
Well, this is good news. It hardly matters whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn, the services have been saved. However, it is now up to people to use these services and keep them going.
At the end of the term of the current administration, despite savage cuts in government funding B&H will retain a bus almost, if not as comprehensive as the day the Greens became the lead party in the council.

Of course the usual moaners and groaners will not be pointing out the comparison between B&H and the swinging cuts to bus services in both Conservative run East and West Sussex, nor that it was Conservative legislation backed by 13 years of Labour government that results in it being against the law to cross subsidise loss making services from the revenue of profitable routes (unless you are in London!). The profit goes to the bus company!

It is good news BUT it raises some questions, how does £60k get lost due to an administrative error ? How incompetent are this council ? How many other, as yet undiscovered, errors have lost the taxpayer money or a service ? We'll probably never know given the Greens seem keen not to provide the detail, indeed keen to cover it up. Could it have been a dodgy backhand deal between the council and B&H Buses ?

Why comment when u don't know what your talking about. B&H have lost out to the tinpot operator known as the Big Lemon. So the question is how much was in the brown envelope that was exchanged between BL and BCC?

Allaroundbrighton wrote:

Fight Back wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
Well, this is good news. It hardly matters whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn, the services have been saved. However, it is now up to people to use these services and keep them going.
At the end of the term of the current administration, despite savage cuts in government funding B&H will retain a bus almost, if not as comprehensive as the day the Greens became the lead party in the council.

Of course the usual moaners and groaners will not be pointing out the comparison between B&H and the swinging cuts to bus services in both Conservative run East and West Sussex, nor that it was Conservative legislation backed by 13 years of Labour government that results in it being against the law to cross subsidise loss making services from the revenue of profitable routes (unless you are in London!). The profit goes to the bus company!

It is good news BUT it raises some questions, how does £60k get lost due to an administrative error ? How incompetent are this council ? How many other, as yet undiscovered, errors have lost the taxpayer money or a service ? We'll probably never know given the Greens seem keen not to provide the detail, indeed keen to cover it up. Could it have been a dodgy backhand deal between the council and B&H Buses ?

Why comment when u don't know what your talking about. B&H have lost out to the tinpot operator known as the Big Lemon. So the question is how much was in the brown envelope that was exchanged between BL and BCC?

I suspect you have an axe to grind so I don't think I'll be taking your advice thank you.

Allaroundbrighton wrote:

rolivan wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

If you do your research I believe you will find that B&H DO NOT get any grants for new buses. However they can obtain a small grant - around 20% of the cost for hybrid buses which comes from EU sources. Either way the BL will not be investing in new easy access buses.

As for LPG hopefully a tech head can answer that point.

So do they get a grant or not?Surely a small grant is still a grant.20 percent is quite a lot.

Why were these routes not "flushed out" long ago and run on a commercial basis?

rolivan wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:

rolivan wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

If you do your research I believe you will find that B&H DO NOT get any grants for new buses. However they can obtain a small grant - around 20% of the cost for hybrid buses which comes from EU sources. Either way the BL will not be investing in new easy access buses.

As for LPG hopefully a tech head can answer that point.

So do they get a grant or not?Surely a small grant is still a grant.20 percent is quite a lot.

I'm told there are no grants available for bus companies to buy buses other than for hybrid type buses of which Brighton & Hove had two but they did not attract a grant as they were purchased outside the scheme.

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

My son uses the 96 to travel to and from school on a daily basis. We would have preferred him to attend a local school, however, at the time we had no option but to apply for either Blatchington Mill or Hove Park Schools, under the disastrous
lottery/catchments scheme set up by the council 3 years ago. We were assured at the time that a subsidised school bus would be provided to keep us sweet and ensure that the school admission changes were forced through. The 96 bus is almost always full and transports around 70 children each way to and from Westdene/Withdean and Blatch/Hove Park Schools. The catchments have since been changed a number of times, however at the time of application we were denied access to our 'local' schools. A decision that was forced upon us, therefore, we have no alternative but to rely upon the school bus service.

You lot in Brighton make me laugh!!! You are all so wrapped in in who can s**g off B&H buses first! You really should all get out a bit more and try using buses in other parts of Sussex... then you would have something to complain about! As you can see be my tag, I live in Worthing... a town dominated by Stagecoach who DO NOT run on Sundays (most services) and stop (our service 6) at 7pm! After the cuts over here, we lost numerous services and what is left have been cut back to day time only. A day ticket for Worthing ONLY is £4.70... great value:NOT! Appart from London, Brighton probably has the best bus service in the Country so I suggest before you all moan about B&H (and the other opperators in Brighton), you take a trip to Worthing and try to using our 'service' if you can call it that.

rolivan wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

LPG in a bus? You tell me which manufacturers make them and maybe I'll believe you just made such an idiot comment.

Allaroundbrighton wrote:

rolivan wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Allaroundbrighton wrote:
Well done the greens! Did they not pay any attention to the fact that a vast majority of passengers that travel on the 52 are elderly - obviously not. Why on earth award a contract to a company that only runs vehicles that are not only "NON easy access" but are unreliable and dirty. I have lost count of the times that I have seen their vehicles abandoned at the side of the road due to breaking down. I for one know how unreliable their service to the university is and that only runs once an hour also.

As for Brighton & Hove, for those that have no idea what do ever what they are talking about, you will see from the companies own information that they invest heavily in ultra low sulphur diesel and are now investing in Euro 5 compliant vehicles as well as hybrid versions. If you bother to do your research you will see they have been accredited time and time again by the carbon trust. An award the BL is never likely to see.

Oh and another thing. How exactly am I going to get my elderly relative on the BL in her wheelchair or even the mums with their pushchairs.

Let's hope B&H can find a viable option to run a commercial service even if was only 2 hours so we are not all trapped in ovingdean without accessible transport.

good points, as the BL will not invest in low floor buses at that price. it also gives the council a year to make sure all the kids who currently use the 74 & 96 go to their LOCAL schools. by that i mean all those in moulscoomb go to falmer, and those in patcham go to patcham. there is absolutely no need to bus children all over the city when there are schools nearby. school entrance policy in brighton is a joke!

Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company also get grants for their new buses.I am still waiting for somebody to explain why they aren't run on LPG.

If you do your research I believe you will find that B&H DO NOT get any grants for new buses. However they can obtain a small grant - around 20% of the cost for hybrid buses which comes from EU sources. Either way the BL will not be investing in new easy access buses.

As for LPG hopefully a tech head can answer that point.

They also just chuck cooking oil straight into the tanks without filtering it. This is NOT bio-diesel. It really ought to be filtered and have some kind of additive such as non-kerosene white spirit to keep it less viscous.

I have travelled widely in Germany/Switzerland and Austria and in Germany (Stuttgart, Berlin & Hamburg), most of the buses are run on either LPG or are 'trolley buses' powered by electric cables above the vehicle. The LPG buses are made by M.A.N mainly but I think (may be wrong) that a few were Mercedes Benz?? I do know they opperate 'tripple bendy' buses in Hamburg... made up of 3 articulated sections, not something fro Brighton!
The thing is... LPG is not a finite resource where as bio diesel is grown (used by B&H) also vegetable oil used by BL is grown. Electric is powered by what?? Coal & Gas fired power stations... the fumes are just being pumped out somewhere else! I expect there are many more suppliers and users of LPG buses in the world, it is just a case of cost. Does this answer help??

gas buses are available, as one local operator here in oxford has tried one. manufactured by MAN, i believe. two large gas tanks on the roof, therefore not really suitable for double deckers! grants are available from the 'Green Bus' fund, for operators wishing to purchase hybrid buses of the type operated by B&H, and others. the fundid covers about half of the difference between and ordinary diesel and a hybrid. my company in oxford have just ordered another 19, to make us the biggest operator of hybrids in our area. i understand B&H are getting more to work on the 7 route. one of the requirements of the green bus funding is that the buses are used on specific routes only.

OK so there are LPG buses. Not really practical for Brighton though given that certain bridges are only just high enough for a decker. Sackville Road comes to mind here. Like you say Davyboy, cost is a big factor as the technology isn't yet cheap enough.

ghost bus driver wrote:
OK so there are LPG buses. Not really practical for Brighton though given that certain bridges are only just high enough for a decker. Sackville Road comes to mind here. Like you say Davyboy, cost is a big factor as the technology isn't yet cheap enough.

Sorry I don't quite understand what bridges have to do with LPG Buses.

I don't see how the Green's are now "saving" all the bus routes....to do that the 52 would need to run the same route it is now. To the city.

The original plan to cut it and only having it going as far as the Marina was already strongly opposed to, as it is cutting off elderly and disabled residents who would struggle with the switch over...especially during winter. The petition against the cut was to KEEP the bus running to the city.

This new 'saving of the 52 by the Big Lemon Company" is not saving it at all. Us in Ovingdean are still facing the exact same cut as was first announced - 2 buses.

Only now we will have to pay double the fare for this inconvenience when we wish to get to town, as I have been informed no through ticketing will be available between B&H and BL buses....

A yearly saver is £450 from B&H. From looking on BL site a ticket is £1 pj with a b&h saver....getting the bus twice a day, five days a week....in a year is approximately £510 (allowing for holidays)
Making my yearly bus fare go up by more than double!

Are the greens going to fund this extra fare? They're raising our council tax yet cannot provide a small village such as Ovingdean with a basic, once hourly bus service to the city.

In Kitkats words "having the 52 run up North street to the city would add too much pollution" There's going to be a lot more added when people abandon the bus and opt to drive instead. I myself will no longer use to bus to get to work but will drive instead.

Green Party, you are an absolute disgrace. You prioritise your little green ideals that cost a fortune and benefit the few, yet hard working people who pay their taxes are now to suffer at your hands. Well done....

rolivan wrote:

ghost bus driver wrote:
OK so there are LPG buses. Not really practical for Brighton though given that certain bridges are only just high enough for a decker. Sackville Road comes to mind here. Like you say Davyboy, cost is a big factor as the technology isn't yet cheap enough.

Sorry I don't quite understand what bridges have to do with LPG Buses.

The gas tanks are on THE ROOF! It was noted in a previous comment! There is only a small gap NOW under sackville road rail bridge... I can just see the Argus and all the B&H haters out there if a £500k bus got wedged under a bridge, writing it off!!! As said in other comments, they are not practicle for a victorian road layout. The Germans use double & tripple bendys instead of double deckers (as do most of Europe). They also invest in thier public transport! I went to Amsterdam in Feb and it made B&H service look bad! There was a tram, train or boat every minute! Fast, clean, modern, multi language 'next stop' AND the trams/buses have total priority... even over pedestrians!! That would NEVER happen in Brighton.

rolivan wrote:

ghost bus driver wrote:
OK so there are LPG buses. Not really practical for Brighton though given that certain bridges are only just high enough for a decker. Sackville Road comes to mind here. Like you say Davyboy, cost is a big factor as the technology isn't yet cheap enough.

Sorry I don't quite understand what bridges have to do with LPG Buses.

The tanks that would have to be on the roofs of the double deckers would strike the bridges.

Chantilly wrote:
I don't see how the Green's are now "saving" all the bus routes....to do that the 52 would need to run the same route it is now. To the city.

The original plan to cut it and only having it going as far as the Marina was already strongly opposed to, as it is cutting off elderly and disabled residents who would struggle with the switch over...especially during winter. The petition against the cut was to KEEP the bus running to the city.

This new 'saving of the 52 by the Big Lemon Company" is not saving it at all. Us in Ovingdean are still facing the exact same cut as was first announced - 2 buses.

Only now we will have to pay double the fare for this inconvenience when we wish to get to town, as I have been informed no through ticketing will be available between B&H and BL buses....

A yearly saver is £450 from B&H. From looking on BL site a ticket is £1 pj with a b&h saver....getting the bus twice a day, five days a week....in a year is approximately £510 (allowing for holidays)
Making my yearly bus fare go up by more than double!

Are the greens going to fund this extra fare? They're raising our council tax yet cannot provide a small village such as Ovingdean with a basic, once hourly bus service to the city.

In Kitkats words "having the 52 run up North street to the city would add too much pollution" There's going to be a lot more added when people abandon the bus and opt to drive instead. I myself will no longer use to bus to get to work but will drive instead.

Green Party, you are an absolute disgrace. You prioritise your little green ideals that cost a fortune and benefit the few, yet hard working people who pay their taxes are now to suffer at your hands. Well done....

You can always move from Ovingdean, Whitehawk has a good bus service

Nice one Big Lemon, no doubt Roger French is seething

Lemon will have to go low floor within the next 5 years as the DDA will take effect.

I am certain that the higher bid being accepted & the lower ignored had nothing at all to do with Roger French & his council committee membership......

HJarrs wrote:
Well, this is good news. It hardly matters whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn, the services have been saved. However, it is now up to people to use these services and keep them going.
At the end of the term of the current administration, despite savage cuts in government funding B&H will retain a bus almost, if not as comprehensive as the day the Greens became the lead party in the council.

Of course the usual moaners and groaners will not be pointing out the comparison between B&H and the swinging cuts to bus services in both Conservative run East and West Sussex, nor that it was Conservative legislation backed by 13 years of Labour government that results in it being against the law to cross subsidise loss making services from the revenue of profitable routes (unless you are in London!). The profit goes to the bus company!

Sorry but it does matter whether it is down to an administrative error or to political judgement or a U-turn.

What matters even more is that they haven't even had the guts to admit they were wrong in the first place and are trying to turn it into a clever bit of fact finding on their part ... Oh look, we are so clever we have managed to flush out which services could be run on a commercial basis.

They were ready to cut the services without regard to the feelings of residents and now they are trying to garner the kudos for what was no more than pure happenstance.

Dr.Draconian wrote:
I am certain that the higher bid being accepted & the lower ignored had nothing at all to do with Roger French & his council committee membership......

No. The Greens do not like Roger French. You may think they are like *that* (crosses fingers) but really, B&H have lost 5 routes to Compass Travel, namely the 37B, 52, 47, 56 and 57. All because the Greens wanted to make cuts for cuts sake, even when they had a surplus. Could you ever imagine BL with its 5 ancient buses running a proper cross-city service? They only lost out due to the age of their vehicles and the fact that they are not low floor. Like Isaid elsewhere they will have to be within 5 years or bye bye Big Lemon. And please, Mr. Druitt, Please start filtering that oil of yours properly rather than just filling the tanks with it straight from the fryer. You may find your buses break down less often.

Come one Tom, show us your new buses. Your current fleet meet Euro 1 emission standards, you need to be running Euro 4 buses for the new contracts.

From the tender document:

3. For the new contracts the anticipated minimum exhaust emission standards
will be EURO 4 (or equivalent), in support of the City Council’s Air Quality Action
Plan. The emissions from engines run on recycled cooking oil are below the
limits set for Euro 4 engines or equivalent.

Hove Actually wrote:
Why oh Why is it that lying politicians can say one thing yesterday do the opposite today and then carry on as if they were right all along. If this type of incompetence occurred in a private company people would lose their jobs.
One last question, how much did this cost us taxpayers?

Be fair. What about Barclays. They and their ilk have brought the economy to its knees, but they still collect their vast salaries and bonuses. They have wrecked the Country for all of us, and they still earn more in a day than a full-time Council Chief Executive would hope to do in a year, and you and I in several lifetimes.

Chantilly wrote:
I don't see how the Green's are now "saving" all the bus routes....to do that the 52 would need to run the same route it is now. To the city.

The original plan to cut it and only having it going as far as the Marina was already strongly opposed to, as it is cutting off elderly and disabled residents who would struggle with the switch over...especially during winter. The petition against the cut was to KEEP the bus running to the city.

This new 'saving of the 52 by the Big Lemon Company" is not saving it at all. Us in Ovingdean are still facing the exact same cut as was first announced - 2 buses.

Only now we will have to pay double the fare for this inconvenience when we wish to get to town, as I have been informed no through ticketing will be available between B&H and BL buses....

A yearly saver is £450 from B&H. From looking on BL site a ticket is £1 pj with a b&h saver....getting the bus twice a day, five days a week....in a year is approximately £510 (allowing for holidays)
Making my yearly bus fare go up by more than double!

Are the greens going to fund this extra fare? They're raising our council tax yet cannot provide a small village such as Ovingdean with a basic, once hourly bus service to the city.

In Kitkats words "having the 52 run up North street to the city would add too much pollution" There's going to be a lot more added when people abandon the bus and opt to drive instead. I myself will no longer use to bus to get to work but will drive instead.

Green Party, you are an absolute disgrace. You prioritise your little green ideals that cost a fortune and benefit the few, yet hard working people who pay their taxes are now to suffer at your hands. Well done....

Hi folks, we've got a news release on The Big Lemon's website which explains the details as far as we know them and answers some of the concerns expressed here. http://bit.ly/Q2C392

All the best
Tom Druitt
The Big Lemon

I always travel by car, I have a Parking Place in Central Brighton as I cannot stand the people that use buses.