Could you people watch? Brighton and Hove City Council wants you! (From The Argus)
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Could you people watch? Brighton and Hove City Council wants you!
4:40pm Wednesday 1st August 2012 in News By John Keenan
Brighton and Hove City Council is asking for volunteers to watch how other people behave.
The council wants people to carry out some of the fieldwork on a new project to transform Ann Street and Providence Place.
The council has announced plans to transform the small park opposite |St Bartholomew’s Church into a lively, safe and successful public space.
Volunteers will receive free training on how to observe and record people using the area, which they must complete before they can go on to take part in the survey.
The two-hour workshop will take place during the week beginning September 24 in a venue near Providence Gardens.
Volunteers must commit to a minimum of four hours and maximum of 24 hours between October 1 and October 14.
Anyone interested can apply online to volunteer, end an email to planningprojects@brighton-hove.gov.uk or post an application to Brighton & Hove City Council, Planning Projects, Hove Town Hall room 414, Norton Road, Hove BN3 3BQ.
The closing date for applications is September 16.
Comments(32)
mimseycal
says...
6:20pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Now having clandestine observations by people of people utilising a public space.
Next they will be wanting to have a counter put on all toilet roll holders so that they can estimate how many trees we could have saved had we elected to wipe ourselves on leaves or grass cuttings.
B G Gruff
says...
7:10pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
7:16pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Cass
says...
7:46pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Dealing with idiots
says...
7:57pm Wed 1 Aug 12
george smith
says...
8:27pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Bristol VR
says...
8:51pm Wed 1 Aug 12
Morpheus
says...
8:55pm Wed 1 Aug 12
mimseycal
says...
9:09pm Wed 1 Aug 12
A bike park?
lindi_lmf
says...
9:15pm Wed 1 Aug 12
HJarrs
says...
9:16pm Wed 1 Aug 12
This seems like a practicle compromise when all the above would pour scorn on the amount of public money spent should council employees actually spend some time doing the observation.
I note that observation is not surveillance. Surveillance is carried across the city and country by countless cctv cameras and that is an issue in itself.
I welcome the fact that the council will have a period of observation rather then the tendancy to jump in with two feet.
rolivan
says...
9:40pm Wed 1 Aug 12
The City needs residential Accommodation.
There are plenty of Green Spaces(BETWEEN THE EARS OF A FEW COUNCILLORS AS WELL)why not Prioritise
leobrighton
says...
9:52pm Wed 1 Aug 12
hubby
says...
10:10pm Wed 1 Aug 12
mimseycal wrote:50% of Brightonians use their left hand!
Ye gawds! I sometimes really despair about this council. Closing streets because it worked so well when we had whole sections of the Old Shoreham road closed for the cycle lane construction.
Now having clandestine observations by people of people utilising a public space.
Next they will be wanting to have a counter put on all toilet roll holders so that they can estimate how many trees we could have saved had we elected to wipe ourselves on leaves or grass cuttings.
No paper at all.
nicole/bob
says...
10:50pm Wed 1 Aug 12
As has been reported earlier, just how can this Council come up with such ideas when at the same time they have decided at great inconvenience (excuse the pun) to close down several local toilets including those at Hove Cemetary and Hove Rec, to name but a few.
Just how is that serving the public interest?
Bob, Hove
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:55pm Wed 1 Aug 12
No-one seems to ask commuting cyclists about the the real issues. How the hell I am going to cross the Lewes Road to turn right against a continual stream of traffic is beyond me and there will be absolutely no difference to the gyratory with one fewer lane, as there will still be vehicles hurtling across in all directions. And why have the cameras watching illegal parkers in the cycle lane on the Lewes Road disappeared, yet we have time to ask people to 'observe' people in another part of the town. Why is the cycle counter still in place and not working. Why are the buses travelling in excess of 30mph in the the new limit on the Lewes Road?
Adam Trimingham has written a brilliant piece in today's Argus about the council and with his decades of experience of local authority reporting, his observations about the current council are spot on.
You should read it, although your unbending loyalty to the party without the ability to be objective will probably render the exercise pointless.
Have you thought about Scientology?
taman
says...
3:56am Thu 2 Aug 12
george smith
says...
6:04am Thu 2 Aug 12
HJarrs wrote:One assumes that the cameras are there to be checked if a wrong doing takes place. This is much more sinister, this surveillance of people going about their law biding lives and making judgements as to what is acceptable and and developed and what is not.
There are many things in this city, and indeed in the country, that seem to have been devised without any observation of how they work. The recent road crossings without the green and red person spring to mind as a good example. Many road junctions, cycle paths designs etc seem to have been concocted in an office. This seems like a practicle compromise when all the above would pour scorn on the amount of public money spent should council employees actually spend some time doing the observation. I note that observation is not surveillance. Surveillance is carried across the city and country by countless cctv cameras and that is an issue in itself. I welcome the fact that the council will have a period of observation rather then the tendancy to jump in with two feet.
I see the Wild Park is back on the council web site, no doubt more of you must love butterflies and sheep, but not trees. Mind they seem to have got their hands on money meant for hard pressed farmers. Not sure that is ethical either when farmers struggle to make a living. But once again it is forcing what they consider 'good and bad on us'
Am I right you sit on this site for the greens, defending what they do
HJarrs
says...
9:07am Thu 2 Aug 12
george smith wrote:You do talk some nonsense. I comment on this site as an individual. Do I vote Green ? Yes. After many years of being in the political doldrums, having being a former Labour Party member (but left being completely apalled by their support of inequality and institutional corruption) I have joined the Green Party because they are the only mainstream group that go any way towards addressing what I believe to be the important issues of the day.
HJarrs wrote: There are many things in this city, and indeed in the country, that seem to have been devised without any observation of how they work. The recent road crossings without the green and red person spring to mind as a good example. Many road junctions, cycle paths designs etc seem to have been concocted in an office. This seems like a practicle compromise when all the above would pour scorn on the amount of public money spent should council employees actually spend some time doing the observation. I note that observation is not surveillance. Surveillance is carried across the city and country by countless cctv cameras and that is an issue in itself. I welcome the fact that the council will have a period of observation rather then the tendancy to jump in with two feet.One assumes that the cameras are there to be checked if a wrong doing takes place. This is much more sinister, this surveillance of people going about their law biding lives and making judgements as to what is acceptable and and developed and what is not. I see the Wild Park is back on the council web site, no doubt more of you must love butterflies and sheep, but not trees. Mind they seem to have got their hands on money meant for hard pressed farmers. Not sure that is ethical either when farmers struggle to make a living. But once again it is forcing what they consider 'good and bad on us' Am I right you sit on this site for the greens, defending what they do
Any major decision should start with observation of what is happening. I can't see the problem with this. I was in another part of the country yesterday and whilst out on site I observed the general operation of the area to learn and better inform my design decision. We should observe more not less. There is far too much design in the public realm done from the desktop only.
Tallywhacker
says...
9:09am Thu 2 Aug 12
HJarrs
says...
9:24am Thu 2 Aug 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:I don't do religion. No do I follow any party lines unless I agree with them.
HJarrs, thank goodness you have finally admitted that bloody cycle lanes are concocted in an office just like the ones installed and being installed in this town. No-one seems to ask commuting cyclists about the the real issues. How the hell I am going to cross the Lewes Road to turn right against a continual stream of traffic is beyond me and there will be absolutely no difference to the gyratory with one fewer lane, as there will still be vehicles hurtling across in all directions. And why have the cameras watching illegal parkers in the cycle lane on the Lewes Road disappeared, yet we have time to ask people to 'observe' people in another part of the town. Why is the cycle counter still in place and not working. Why are the buses travelling in excess of 30mph in the the new limit on the Lewes Road? Adam Trimingham has written a brilliant piece in today's Argus about the council and with his decades of experience of local authority reporting, his observations about the current council are spot on. You should read it, although your unbending loyalty to the party without the ability to be objective will probably render the exercise pointless. Have you thought about Scientology?
I am glad you agree with the importance of observing before jumping in with expensive solutions. I hope that before any cycle route, road or pavement is altered, that councillors and council officials and designers get off their bums and experience where their designs will affect. I know I would.
I cycled through the Gyratory on Saturday and thought how great is that the mess of London Road will be to some degree addressed. It is dreadful. Granted there is a challenge to get a good design that meets a wide user group and the council historically has not done a good job here.
Lets be honest though, like most of the above and regular commentors on this site, it wouldn't matter what the Greens do, you will always be critical, in your case it seems to be because you wish to reamain special. The worst thing that could happen for you would be the vast increase in people cycling. You have constantly criticised, but offer no change. Just like the other posters and political parties.
I admit I do find it odd and a little sad that a local party, which the Green Party is, is the recipient of so much bile.
fredflintstone1
says...
10:09am Thu 2 Aug 12
taman wrote:Also worth pointing out that it is now impossible to comment on traveller stories on this site as the result of the Argus having "discussions with Brighton and Hove City Council".
They are what they are an extremist minority party .. how the hell did the good people of Brighton and Hove get stuck with this lot ? thank god there on a suicide mission
So much for free speech! That's clearly gone already in this city. Why is it anything to do with the Council as to what people post on this website?
If there is any cause for concern, it should be the police who are involved and advise.
This reeks of political censorship of the worst kind. Should the Argus not reveal what's going on, so it's public knowledge?
mimseycal
says...
11:17am Thu 2 Aug 12
taman wrote:How did we get stuck with this lot? The answer is quite simple really. Political apathy! When you get an electorate who by and large are so turned off by politics on the one hand and a tiny extremist minority party comes on board. It is inevitable that their equally extremist supporters are going to rush to the ballot boxes but the apathetic majority will stay away.
They are what they are an extremist minority party .. how the hell did the good people of Brighton and Hove get stuck with this lot ? thank god there on a suicide mission
Result ... the tiny extremist minority party gets more votes and is in. That is what happened with the BNP. On the positive side, the BNP was so overwhelmed by its success it went into meltdown. The same is happening with the Greens. Like all extremists, they have a tendency to forget the maxim, softly softly catchee monkey. They are drunk with the power they are too immature to handle.
Sadly, whilst they are in power, they will waste a lot of money ... the utterly superfluous cycle lanes along the Old Shoreham Road for instance.
They will alienate a lot of the council staff, especially the high level staff; witness the departure within a very short space of time, of 4 out of 6 top level staff.
Make some very ill advised financial decisions; £14.8 million loan to the I360.
Have some fun and games playing with the civic equivalent of a trainset; witness the cancellation of bus services though they did reinstate some, they have left one suburb of Brighton without access to a local bus service thereby effectively increasing the cost of annual bus travel by £400.+ for those unfortunate residents (probably not Green Party voters ;).
Oh and let us not forget granting planning permission for yet another hotel, nice and modern and totally out of keeping with the architectural style of the locality adn despite the fact that we have hotels here that are either standing empty or are up for sale.
Not to forget that they are doing everything they can to ensure that if we get any visitors at all they are day trippers as the local parking charges are extortionate.
The list goes on ...
No, HJarrs, I don't have an issue with the Greens as Greens. I accept that there were problems they inherited from previous administrations. I also agree that central government has and is introducing cuts.
I do have an issue with an immature, ideologically driven political party that is making naive, long lasting and in some cases irreversible decisions that impact on my quality of life, the state of the place I call home and the future social and economic welfare of my children and grandchildren.
As far as I am concerned the only one who can tell me 'this is for your own good' whilst stabbing me in the back is the medical expert giving me a lumbar puncture.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
12:38pm Thu 2 Aug 12
The best way for cyclists to negotiate the gyratory is ahead of traffic. Therefore, install a green cycle light which activates 30 seconds before the vehicle lights go green.
Second idea, do what they do in Europe and in some parts of London.
Create cycle lanes on roads by just adding a raised kerbs to separate traffic from motorists. They are easy to install, cheap and can be removed if necessary.
They also make cyclists feel safer. As a commuting cyclists, there is nothing more dangerous than shared cycle lanes and lanes which are not segregated and I can say that from experience as I ended up in hospital with a broken collar bone after a dog walker meandered into my path two years ago.
Since that time, I avoid lanes such as the one in Hove. where kids on scooters and dog walkers meander and where people getting off buses just walk onto the lane.
Dangerous and expensive.
There are my suggestions. We over complicate it and until you give non-cyclists confidence they are safe they wont use them and these new ones are dangerous.
Also this council must not continue with the Lewes Road lane closure without right turn fliter lights at ALL right turns. I can tell you now, that it will be impossible for a cyclist to come from the far inside lane, cross over the bus lane and then cross a single lane of continual traffic to get to the centre island of the Lewes Road and then have to negotiate another lane of continual traffic, another bus lane and a cycle lane.
This is extremely dangerous and will leave cyclists vulnerable at numerous points of a right turn.
That is costly. I often make a right turn and while the traffic is spread out it can be a case of acceleration across all lanes at one go, but the proposal has not considered the move because it's aim it from north to south only.
Mr Sworld
says...
12:41pm Thu 2 Aug 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:Couple of points to ask you and clear up others.
HJarrs, thank goodness you have finally admitted that bloody cycle lanes are concocted in an office just like the ones installed and being installed in this town.
No-one seems to ask commuting cyclists about the the real issues. How the hell I am going to cross the Lewes Road to turn right against a continual stream of traffic is beyond me and there will be absolutely no difference to the gyratory with one fewer lane, as there will still be vehicles hurtling across in all directions. And why have the cameras watching illegal parkers in the cycle lane on the Lewes Road disappeared, yet we have time to ask people to 'observe' people in another part of the town. Why is the cycle counter still in place and not working. Why are the buses travelling in excess of 30mph in the the new limit on the Lewes Road?
Adam Trimingham has written a brilliant piece in today's Argus about the council and with his decades of experience of local authority reporting, his observations about the current council are spot on.
You should read it, although your unbending loyalty to the party without the ability to be objective will probably render the exercise pointless.
Have you thought about Scientology?
1. I am assuming that when you are turning right against the traffic you mean you are coming southbound on Lewes Road and wish to turn onto Upper Lewes Road or all the way around the Gyratory onto Hollingdean Road?
You can do as I do and signal, take a primary position and move into the lane you need. Being assertive and clearly telling drivers what you are about to do makes it much easier, and safer, to mix with vehicular traffic.
However I do appreciate that the Gyratory is not the most cycle friendly junction in Brighton (I ride it every day) and if you don't feel confident enough to do this then you can always get off your bike and use the pedestrian crossing to reach the road you require.
While the re-design doesn't do much for southbound cyclists is greatly improves the safety of those northbound.
2. The cameras at the Elm Grove / Lewes Road / Union Road junctions were to observe traffic flow there. They were not watching the cycle lanes.
I also thought that was their purpose but sadly it wasn't.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
4:08pm Thu 2 Aug 12
I agree that the gyratory could do with some tweaks and the Lewes Road where the shops are but after Coombe Road, the Lewes Road out of town is fine.
The council want to close the inside lane in both directions right along the route up to the unis to create a cycle lane, and a bus lane and a third vehicle lane. The outside lane in each carriageway will be other vehicles, which at peak times will mean a solid lane of traffic at 30/40mph in each direction.
If I am heading out of town in the cycle lane to make a right turn into Bevendean Crescent, I will have to move from the cycle lane on the left, across the inside bus lane, then across the outside lane of solid traffic.
I will then sit in the central reservation of the Lewes Road, which would be ok in some parts as it is protected. Other parts are open and exposed.
I then have to cut across the carriageway with the outside lane once again full of traffic, cut over the bus lane and a bike lane.
At peak periods this will be impossible and bloody dangerous.
Right turn filters will have to be installed for vehicles and bikes.
This happens when there is a match day in the week and trying to go right is impossible for cyclists and sometimes cars.
Mr Sworld
says...
4:28pm Thu 2 Aug 12
I do have the advantage of being able to use the new crossing by the university but I've not needed to yet.
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
4:53pm Thu 2 Aug 12
Also, you will know that some cars turning right sit in the central reservation with their rear ends sitting in the outisde lane.Usually motorists move into the inside lane to negotiate these vehicles.
You will no longer be able to use the inside lane and therefore will have to sit in the outside lane in stationary traffic until the vehicle has managed the right turn.
The congestion at peak times will be horrendous.
Reflect on your post
says...
9:14pm Thu 2 Aug 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:39pm Thu 2 Aug 12
The Heretic
says...
10:10am Fri 3 Aug 12
Problem or opportunity? The choice is yours.....
Nathan_Adler says...
5:59pm Wed 1 Aug 12
For what....These "community spaces" will be filled with yoghurt-knitting lefties and their little Leninist children eating lentil and Trill sandwiches whilst wearing bipperty-bobberty hats and "Free Nelson Mandela" T'shirts.
Ridiculous.