Brighton rail expansion plans: 'No chance' says Lewes MP and transport minister (From The Argus)

Baker is a four square LibLabCon Parliamentary idiot. His crop of traitors are the real cause the country is in the state it is. When Britain is finally rid of them all that will be a great day.

Leaving my usual contempt for Baker aside, one of the problems with any new line to London is that there is virtually no spare capacity in the rail paths to the existing termini; I'm not sure how the BML2 people propose to deal with that.

Having said that I support any scheme that can increase our rail capacity as it is sorely needed - and this need will increase as the population of the South East rises. A fact generally overlooked by the more idiotic Green supporters who think that all people who currently visit Brighton by car could easily switch to the train.

The only way the mainline can cope with the additional amount of commuters (so that everyone gets a seat on the train) is to introduce the double decker trains seen in Europe etc; unfortunately I'm sure this will never to happen due to the cost of having the infrastructure built to support this type of train.

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Leaving my usual contempt for Baker aside, one of the problems with any new line to London is that there is virtually no spare capacity in the rail paths to the existing termini; I'm not sure how the BML2 people propose to deal with that. Having said that I support any scheme that can increase our rail capacity as it is sorely needed - and this need will increase as the population of the South East rises. A fact generally overlooked by the more idiotic Green supporters who think that all people who currently visit Brighton by car could easily switch to the train.

But they put on extra trains during the Olympics proving that there is extra capacity!!

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Leaving my usual contempt for Baker aside, one of the problems with any new line to London is that there is virtually no spare capacity in the rail paths to the existing termini; I'm not sure how the BML2 people propose to deal with that.

Having said that I support any scheme that can increase our rail capacity as it is sorely needed - and this need will increase as the population of the South East rises. A fact generally overlooked by the more idiotic Green supporters who think that all people who currently visit Brighton by car could easily switch to the train.

In response to JSIR, and others asking the same very pertinent questions, BML2 presents an eminently practical solution to the London approaches. Two routes, one via a re-opened Sanderstead to Elmers End connection (re-routing the Croydon Tramlink to benefit a larger population than the current service), the other via the present Sanderstead to South Croydon link, rejoining the main line south of East Croydon.

From Ladywell, BML2 would enter a tunnel (far shorter than the old Network Rail proposal for a bore from Coulesdon) heading cross-river providing an improved transport hub at Lewisham, a direct service to a Crossrail interchange in Docklands and an onward connection via Stratford to the East Anglian network, allowing direct services between Gatwick, Stanstead and Southend airports.

Expansion of East Croydon station is feasible, and would allow services from either the existing route or BML2 to serve either the present terminals or, via the new link, provide through services to East Anglia. This would additionally free up capacity to permit re-introduction of direct services from the south to the Black Country and the North West, lost with the paths necessarily transferred to Thameslink some years ago. Far from causing capacity problems, BML2 (unlike Mr Baker's plan) addresses them and provides a practical solution.

Mr Baker's somewhat parochial scheme to reinstate the missing eight miles of track south of Uckfield would be a welcome start to getting BML2 going, but as he made clear, that is the sum total of his vision - a shoestring investment with a poor financial return over an underdeveloped and slow line, providing a second class service, no useful connections to Brighton or Tunbridge Wells, useless in addressing capacity issues on either the Brighton or Tunbridge Wells services and equally useless as a diversionary route, yet still leaving the question unanswered of just how paths into London are to be found for the proposed service

There's a tendancy to regard any new project such as BML2 as a discrete operation, somehow divorced from the region's rail network. In truth, the scheme represents a vital integral adjunct to the current network, relieving not only capacity issues on the Brighton line, but on routes from West and Mid-Kent. The vastly improved utilisation of rolling stock and the plethora of additional routes which would become possible with BML2 operating alongside Thameslink would represent the greatest single step change in services since electrification of suburban services around a century ago.

For BML2 to happen, it is not enough to merely reinstate the old Hamsey loop to access Lewes. Direct services require a new link, via a tunnel at Ashcombe which,together with the cross-Thames bore, is still shorter than the old Coulesdon proposal, and nowhere near the £3½Billion being floated to extend the Bakerloo tube line a few miles.

Quite how this is more controversial than leaving a city of 400,000 souls, and the 24th busiest station in the UK, cut off by rail from the capital every time the Brighton line goes belly-up, which it does with monotonous regularity, I don't know. Each time the line is shut it inconveniences thousands of passengers, causes headaches for train companies and costs the economy a fortune in lost trade.

Mr Baker's scheme may 'tick an electoral promise box', but that's all it does. You don't need hindsight to see just what a wasted opportunity it would be merely to sling down eight miles of missing track while ignoring many clear and present problems.

So, how do Mr Baker and his department intend to improve matters? Now THERE'S a question I'd like an answer to.

The consultation on the new Thameslink franchise is extended until the 14th Sept at 17:00 hrs. It's YOUR chance to have a say. Why not use it?

You can email them at
thameslink@dft.gsi.g
ov.uk and you can look over BML2's proposals at www.bml2.co.uk

Pitviper wrote:

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Leaving my usual contempt for Baker aside, one of the problems with any new line to London is that there is virtually no spare capacity in the rail paths to the existing termini; I'm not sure how the BML2 people propose to deal with that. Having said that I support any scheme that can increase our rail capacity as it is sorely needed - and this need will increase as the population of the South East rises. A fact generally overlooked by the more idiotic Green supporters who think that all people who currently visit Brighton by car could easily switch to the train.

But they put on extra trains during the Olympics proving that there is extra capacity!!

Yes there were a few extra trains, but nothing like the number that would be generated by another main line feeding into London. And also during the Olympics the great weakness of the rail system, the signalling, largely worked without the usual failures!

The next step is for a few more tories to bother to vote at the next election,to avoid the burden of a Liberal coalition.
Mr.Baker is enjoying this brief chance to flex his muscles as a second-rate "transport spokesman".A new line from Seaford, indeed! Probably through Ringmer to Uckfield: "Look at this, Liberal supporting Ringmer! Your own railway! Liberal action works..."
Just rebuild the old viaduct out of Lewes station, knock down a couple of card shops in the Cliffe, and proceed to Uckfield on the old trackbed.

Short memory, Pitviper? Tens of thousands either took holidays, worked from home or staggered journey times during the Olympics.

Tempting though Sussex jim's suggestion is, Pheonix Causeway still presents a slight problem, as indeed does the DfT's Minister for Cycle Racks and Station Car Parks, Norman Baker MP.

Sussex jim wrote:
The next step is for a few more tories to bother to vote at the next election,to avoid the burden of a Liberal coalition.
Mr.Baker is enjoying this brief chance to flex his muscles as a second-rate "transport spokesman".A new line from Seaford, indeed! Probably through Ringmer to Uckfield: "Look at this, Liberal supporting Ringmer! Your own railway! Liberal action works..."
Just rebuild the old viaduct out of Lewes station, knock down a couple of card shops in the Cliffe, and proceed to Uckfield on the old trackbed.

It was the Tories that left us with a privitised railway that is not only hopelessly innefficient, but that has also hoovered up billions of pounds of hard earned taxpayers money. A typical example of the tax payer subsidising private profit - the Conservative way.

I know a lot of the posters on these boards don't get out much, but if you care to look at the example of Scotland, schemes like the BML2 are going ahead and are successful. Sadly, in England we have too many little boys wanting shiny toys, hence the support for HS2, which will again provide good profits for large corporations while bringing a poor public return per pound spent. London is not prosperous because of its intercity lines, it is much more down to its urban and outer-urban transport network and this is what we should be concentrating on in Sussex.

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Leaving my usual contempt for Baker aside, one of the problems with any new line to London is that there is virtually no spare capacity in the rail paths to the existing termini; I'm not sure how the BML2 people propose to deal with that.

Having said that I support any scheme that can increase our rail capacity as it is sorely needed - and this need will increase as the population of the South East rises. A fact generally overlooked by the more idiotic Green supporters who think that all people who currently visit Brighton by car could easily switch to the train.

One way to do it would be to attach the train to the East Grinstead - London one at Oxted and split it from the front or rear on the return journey.

HJarrs wrote:

Sussex jim wrote:
The next step is for a few more tories to bother to vote at the next election,to avoid the burden of a Liberal coalition.
Mr.Baker is enjoying this brief chance to flex his muscles as a second-rate "transport spokesman".A new line from Seaford, indeed! Probably through Ringmer to Uckfield: "Look at this, Liberal supporting Ringmer! Your own railway! Liberal action works..."
Just rebuild the old viaduct out of Lewes station, knock down a couple of card shops in the Cliffe, and proceed to Uckfield on the old trackbed.

It was the Tories that left us with a privitised railway that is not only hopelessly innefficient, but that has also hoovered up billions of pounds of hard earned taxpayers money. A typical example of the tax payer subsidising private profit - the Conservative way.

I know a lot of the posters on these boards don't get out much, but if you care to look at the example of Scotland, schemes like the BML2 are going ahead and are successful. Sadly, in England we have too many little boys wanting shiny toys, hence the support for HS2, which will again provide good profits for large corporations while bringing a poor public return per pound spent. London is not prosperous because of its intercity lines, it is much more down to its urban and outer-urban transport network and this is what we should be concentrating on in Sussex.

Indeed, BML2 could be touted as a feeder for HS2 if you linked it into the East London line, then you could have trains right up to St Pancras.

they don't like the idea that they have to spend a few billion on infrastructure and lose a few billion in lost fuel taxes. If they hadn't privatised the rail so that a handful of fatcats benefit more than the public, this would be a no-brainer - but that's what the Conservative party are all about - the hint is in the name. For the last year I travelled to Greenwich from Brighton 5 days a week, which cost me 5 hours a day and £5k per annum (which is not a tax reducer). That's why I left Brighton, and now England.