'Nationalise trains' says Brighton MP

Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas handing out flyers against rail fair increases at Brighton Station in August Buy this photo » Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas handing out flyers against rail fair increases at Brighton Station in August

Overturning privatisation of the railways could slash fares by nearly a fifth, according to an MP.

Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas made the claim during a House of Commons debate yesterda (September 5)..

Dr Lucas said bringing the railways back into public ownership, as and when current private franchises ended, could save more than £1 billion a year of taxpayers’ money.

She added, if spent in the right way, this could reduce fares by about 18%.

It came during a discussion called by Labour demanding a 1% above inflation cap on fares for 2013 and 2014 instead of the average 6.2% hike planned for January.

Speaking before the Parliament debate, Dr Lucas said: “Britain was once world famous for its trail blazing and hugely successful railways – but today’s privatised system is ripping off passengers, harming the economy and failing the environment.

“The spiralling cost of rail travel is having a huge impact on passengers in Brighton and Hove – the latest above inflation fare increases being the final straw for many commuters in my constituency.”

Dr Lucas added she had raised the case of a constituent who said the recent rail hikes had forced him to give up his job in London directly with new Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin.

Mr McLoughlin said he was concerned about it and would look more closely at the issue of rising fares.

He told MPs: “I’m acutely aware of the concerns passengers have about fares.

“That is why we are committed to ending the above-inflation increases as soon as we can once savings are achieved and the wider fiscal situation improves.

“A relentless focus on efficiency will help us put an end to the above-inflation increases at the earliest opportunity.”

 

Comments(30)

Ballroom Blitz says...
10:44am Thu 6 Sep 12

For once, she's absolutely right. It'll never happen though, unfortunately.

MattBChiro says...
11:00am Thu 6 Sep 12

The railway were appalling when they were run by the government as British Rail. I know Ms Lucas looks young, but surely she is old enough to remember shocking time-keeping, poorly kept trains, union disputes and above inflation fare rises.

inadaptado says...
11:16am Thu 6 Sep 12

MattBChiro wrote:
The railway were appalling when they were run by the government as British Rail. I know Ms Lucas looks young, but surely she is old enough to remember shocking time-keeping, poorly kept trains, union disputes and above inflation fare rises.
And how is that different to the current situation?

keeshond8 says...
11:34am Thu 6 Sep 12

Fare rises were always below the rate of inflation under Chairman Sir Peter Parker in the late'70s and into the '80s, actually. Much of that initially was due to the inflation rate being so high, but this was an era of genuine productivity for British Rail with subsidies reduced to levels that none of today's private companies could operate on.

rolivan says...
11:39am Thu 6 Sep 12

inadaptado wrote:
MattBChiro wrote:
The railway were appalling when they were run by the government as British Rail. I know Ms Lucas looks young, but surely she is old enough to remember shocking time-keeping, poorly kept trains, union disputes and above inflation fare rises.
And how is that different to the current situation?
Totally agree some of the modern stock is already in a sorry state most of it due to vandalism.Because it is not theirs vandals don't worry about the effect it has on others.Why has it taken Her so long to make this statement ,how long has She been a Politician?

Fercri Sakes says...
12:01pm Thu 6 Sep 12

I like the way it is at the moment. These Greens are obviously bonkers.

Fares are jumping up above inflation, train punctuality is appalling, the tax payer contribution is higher than it's ever been and the shareholders can treat themselves to lovely dividends paid out of everybodys income tax.

So if you're very rich and pay no tax you're quids in! Who cares about the rest of society? (and remember to vote Tory, people! They really do have the interests of the working man at heart.)

bruce_ says...
12:24pm Thu 6 Sep 12

I fear Caroline has a short memory if she really thinks nationalisation would automatically improve the railways. I know it's difficult to imagine things being worse overall than they are now; but any new British Rail would have to be free of political interference, and concerned exclusively with public transport, not eg property development. The system did not satisfy anyone when G Young came up with his daft schemes -- the deficiencies of BR gave Major's Govt the excuse to introduce a new system, which has in most ways turned out worse, it is true. To match other modern railways in Europe would need massive investment -- can anyone believe that will be forthcoming? (Meanwhile R Branson is vexed because he wasn't given the chance to fail again. Ho, hum...)

HJarrs says...
12:52pm Thu 6 Sep 12

The most cost effective decision made on the railways in recent years was to take back Network Rail into effective public ownership. This lead to a big improvement over the private Railtrack. The train companies could be taken back into this company as franchises finish at no cost to the tax payer.

We shouldn't be too rose tinted about British Rail, however it was improving at a tremendous rate before it was split into over 100 companies. Years of stagnation followed privitisation, train building was so delayed that the industry collapsed and though the railways are generally better than 1994 it has been by paying a staggering level of subsidy undreamt of pre-privitisation.

If you want to see what British Rail could have and I think would have been and could be if we bring it together then go to Germany. Better, cheaper trains, better customer service and quite probably less subsidy.

Thank goodness the Liberals are in the coalition, the Conservatives want to privatise the roads and pretty much everything else their friends can trouser money from. I kid you not.

The Heretic says...
1:16pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Anyone who's read any of my ravings on this forum won't need to strain the grey matter much to guess how I've voted!

It's rather a pity that in the case of the Sussex rail network, there's so little of it left to argue over.

There's one missing piece of the jigsaw we CAN put back in place - but this would only interest anyone who wonders why, having forked out thousands on a season ticket, they're left wondering if they'll even get a train, never mind a seat. Or anyone who wonders why the tourists might be put off by the idea of a journey twice as long as advertised on a replacement bus service.

It doesn't need to be like this - have a look at www.bml2.co.uk to see why.

Number Six says...
1:17pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Overturning privatisation of the railways could slash fares by nearly a fifth, according to an MP.


Very good Caroline, next time show all workings.

It must be great being the only MP your party has since you can come out with whatever you like knowing full well you'll never get into power to have to implement anything.

Personally, the less any government is involved in anything, the better

Thumper Hove says...
1:44pm Thu 6 Sep 12

What planet is she on? Has she not noticed the country is a little short of cash at the moment??

At least it is nice of her to think about her constituents for once, rather than being anywhere but here doing her "one heroic woman against the world" self-promotion.

censored says...
1:59pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Thumper Hove wrote:
What planet is she on? Has she not noticed the country is a little short of cash at the moment??

At least it is nice of her to think about her constituents for once, rather than being anywhere but here doing her "one heroic woman against the world" self-promotion.
Ummm.... it wouldn't cost anything... it could, in fact, make money because the railway could in future be run at a profit.

We already pay subsidies to the operating companies which, in many cases, go into dividends.

There is also a huge spend on supporting the legal structure: one company suing another for delays. There is no long-term thinking, because each company acts over the length of it's franchise only. Carriages are leased from leasing companies at huge expense instead of being owned by the rail system (imagine renting your car over 20 years for £20,000 instead of buying it for half that).

Our fragmented, private system is insane.

HJarrs says...
2:08pm Thu 6 Sep 12

I think that big savings could be made without taxpayer contribution. Train franchises like Southern, FCC and Gatwick Express could be allowed to lapse and return to a central railway company. Several franchises have gone bankrupt and are handed back at taxpayers expense anyway. For those with long memeories we could recreat something akin to Network Southeast, replacing several overpaid boards of directors with just one management structure and reallocating millions that would otherwise be paid in dividends and boardroom bonuses.

As to those that say may government meddling, I might point out that never have civil servants made more (often bad) decisions about railways than they do today and have done since railway privitisation.

Blondie2 says...
2:10pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Bring back the "Brighton Belle". for a start.

Morpheus says...
2:31pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Dr Lucas needs a history lesson. The trail blazing and successful railways were the privately owned Victorian railways. Where does she get her costs from? Just pie in the sky rubbish as usual.

menowhere says...
2:37pm Thu 6 Sep 12

first a green led council organizes the first squat eviction in the uk and then suggests this. with this new approach to such issues i might even vote green.


ok i wont but all the same my opinion is changing.

Ross92 says...
4:03pm Thu 6 Sep 12

I agree, only have to look at Germany to see a profit making nationalised railway.

But I doubt the majority of the UK wants to pick up the bill.

Tallywhacker says...
4:49pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Maybe we should copy the German way of renewing and updating a railway. Start a war, get an entire continents rail structure and rolling stock blown up by the enemy air forces, lose the war and have the enemy pay for all new and updated railways tunnels bridges and trains.

Roger Francais says...
6:18pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Belt up woman and go back to your lentil soup!

Fercri Sakes says...
6:22pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Roger Francais wrote:
Belt up woman and go back to your lentil soup!
1986 called and asked for its joke back.

The Heretic says...
10:04pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Blondie2 wrote:
Bring back the "Brighton Belle". for a start.
And why not? You may like to have a look at:

http://brightonbelle
.com/

Because that's exactly what they're doing!

Kippers for breakfast, anyone?

tonybee says...
2:27am Fri 7 Sep 12

Lucas should take indigestion medicne
she is so full of ignorant wind/
green bile. A classic quote - " methinks she is but an empty vessel "

Old Ale Man says...
8:19am Fri 7 Sep 12

Full of more than just wind Tonybee and it's all of the greens not just St Caroline patron saint of travellers!!!!!
Must away or I'll miss my train.

Fercri Sakes says...
8:59am Fri 7 Sep 12

tonybee wrote:
Lucas should take indigestion medicne
she is so full of ignorant wind/
green bile. A classic quote - " methinks she is but an empty vessel "
Good to see some strong intellectual criticism of our local MP there and a detailed look at the issue at hand.

I was wondering though, could you work a bit more weak reactionary misogynistic nonsense in there, please? You're not coming across as patheticly as I think you could.

Also I'd love a run down of the digestive habits of our other MPs in the area. It's so fascinating. Where do you get your information from?

Sussex jim says...
9:53am Fri 7 Sep 12

Maybe we run our railways like the Italians did during the war. They may have fitted the gearboxes in their tanks the wrong way round, but at least the trains ran on time. And still do today.

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...
1:36pm Fri 7 Sep 12

Thumper Hove wrote:
What planet is she on? Has she not noticed the country is a little short of cash at the moment??

At least it is nice of her to think about her constituents for once, rather than being anywhere but here doing her "one heroic woman against the world" self-promotion.
We wouldn't have to pay. As each franchise expires it could be taken back into public ownership. If you can't wait that long we can always re-nationalise without compensation!

The bottom line is that privatised transport companies (buses as well as rail) do NOT exist to serve our transport needs - they exist to make a profit for their shareholders. Unless you've been living in a cave these last few years you can't fail to have noticed that the old Thatcherite view that 'private enterprise' and 'market forces' are always the best approach has been thoroughly and absolutely trashed.

ghost bus driver says...
10:44pm Fri 7 Sep 12

Morpheus wrote:
Dr Lucas needs a history lesson. The trail blazing and successful railways were the privately owned Victorian railways. Where does she get her costs from? Just pie in the sky rubbish as usual.
Yeah, although they owned the tracks and the rolling stock as well. And had control over what they ran and when. Unlike the current insane franchising system.

tonybee says...
2:00am Sat 8 Sep 12

Ferenghi (apologies to Jean-Luc Picard) Sakes should realise the subject matter is irrelevant if the propounder is totally useless at everything !
Also please learn to spell or get spellcheker fixed - it is Pathetically !

spuldge says...
10:05am Sat 8 Sep 12

This woman is a Communist, don't let the 'green wash' fool you.

Dave in Hastings says...
1:21pm Sat 8 Sep 12

Morpheus wrote:
Dr Lucas needs a history lesson. The trail blazing and successful railways were the privately owned Victorian railways. Where does she get her costs from? Just pie in the sky rubbish as usual.
More sentimental nonsense about the victorian era, when the UK infrastructure was built on the back of ripping off the 'empire' countries.

The railways now receive vastly higher taxpayer subsidies in real terms than they did when nationalised.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree