Seaside rivals survived bad summer better than Brighton and Hove (From The Argus)

The Greens can keep repeating their mantra that the parking charges have not had an effect, until they're blue in the face.
However the majority of the residents are able to make up their own minds and hopefully will eject them at the next election. Our city has been used as a Green experiment which I believe has fundamentaly failed. Their ideals may be sound but the reality of actually transfering them into a coherent realistic strategy is another matter.

Eastbourne is a far nicer place to visit then B&H. It is cleaner, prettier and parking is cheap. The seafront is glorious especially in the Summer.

B&H has become a dirty litter strewn dump.

As I've said previously, all my family and friends now go to Seaford if they want to go to the beach. You can park for nothing a pavements width from the beach. Bye bye for ever Brighton beach. Congratulations Green party, that’s at least 15 families I know that have stopped going to Brighton beach.

The Green's are ruining our city. Why did anyone vote for them !!!

Conservative, Labour, Liberal, vote for any one of them; but if you care about our city don't vote green !

An alternative measure might be to select a hotel chain with representation in each of the locations and look at their occupancy as well as number of unique guests vs rooms over the period.

I think the facts speak for themselves. I have seen crowds of foreign students this year which seem to outnumber families. I accept Eastbourne is more gentile but Brighton is vibrant has many touristy attractions, the seafront has been transformed and the parking charges for central Brighton are exhorbitant = lack of English tourists/day trippers. The problem is that Brighton has a diversity of inhabitants and does tend to do outlandish things like voting the Green party in both locally and parliamentary. Still only a couple of years to go and it should change the politics for us. Let's just hope it's not too late!!

Is Brighton the sort of place that attracts people who actually want to go to the tourist information centre when they visit? I think not. Perhaps it's a sign that Brighton attracts a younger crowd. When the weather has been good its been as busy as ever there certainly seems to be more foreign tourists around. Perhaps the city is moving forward and leaving the Argus behind.

brightonian57 wrote:
As I've said previously, all my family and friends now go to Seaford if they want to go to the beach. You can park for nothing a pavements width from the beach. Bye bye for ever Brighton beach. Congratulations Green party, that’s at least 15 families I know that have stopped going to Brighton beach.

the downside with this option is that you have to go to Seaford

It is not only the tourist's that provide a revenue,we as resident's sustain our economy all year,but we all have the good sence not to attempt to go into the town,becuase of the parking problems,and the general cost of living in general"gas,electric
,council tax,the cost of rent/morgage and car to get to work and the fuel tax to make it go,the road tax ,insurance"the price of food,and general living cost's.there is not much, if any spare money to go into the town where prices are high.

Personally I don't think that counting the number of people going into a information centre is a true correlation for the number of visitors. Maybe the number of OAP visitors?

I think we just have more tech-savy and knowledgable visitors who can use their mobile phones to get around.

Can anybody recommend a better statistic to check? Do the councils create local economy figures?

And to add: can we compare visitors to the Brighton, Bournemouth and Eastbourne tourist websites?

This article does seem a bit biased against the Green's parking policy (strange, that). Which, even if you disagree with it, still sees traffic queues on sunny weekend days stretch up onto the A23 up to Pycombe. Maybe they can find a decent parking space now and dont need to visit the Visitors Centre.

BiggerH wrote:

brightonian57 wrote: As I've said previously, all my family and friends now go to Seaford if they want to go to the beach. You can park for nothing a pavements width from the beach. Bye bye for ever Brighton beach. Congratulations Green party, that’s at least 15 families I know that have stopped going to Brighton beach.

the downside with this option is that you have to go to Seaford

Not really, as you turn right before the town itself. Although personally I have no problem with Seaford, which has some quite good pubs and a few interesting shops

Why would you travel to Brighton to sit and watch the effluent wash against the littered stone and pebble beach. Pay the ridiculous parking charges and eat and drink in the squalor that is Brighton!

Seaford is a nice place to visit and certainly a better place for a family day out on the beach than Brighton beach. Anything that encourages parents to take their children to a beach like Seaford instead of Brighton is to be encouraged. I can't see anyone who wants to go to a nightclub or theatre or to see a show or visit a pier going there though.

Fercri Sakes wrote:
And to add: can we compare visitors to the Brighton, Bournemouth and Eastbourne tourist websites?

This article does seem a bit biased against the Green's parking policy (strange, that). Which, even if you disagree with it, still sees traffic queues on sunny weekend days stretch up onto the A23 up to Pycombe. Maybe they can find a decent parking space now and dont need to visit the Visitors Centre.

In this case the Argus has used the comparison of visitor centre numbers because this is the measure the Greens have selected to use themselves. They can hardly complain when their statements are proven to be untrue by using the exact measurements they themselves chose to use.

ruberducker wrote:
It is not only the tourist's that provide a revenue,we as resident's sustain our economy all year,but we all have the good sence not to attempt to go into the town,becuase of the parking problems,and the general cost of living in general"gas,ele
ctric ,council tax,the cost of rent/morgage and car to get to work and the fuel tax to make it go,the road tax ,insurance"the price of food,and general living cost's.there is not much, if any spare money to go into the town where prices are high.

Brighton & Hove isn't that big a place you know, It's quite possible to get around on foot... and good for you.

bikerjimbo wrote:
I think the facts speak for themselves. I have seen crowds of foreign students this year which seem to outnumber families. I accept Eastbourne is more gentile but Brighton is vibrant has many touristy attractions, the seafront has been transformed and the parking charges for central Brighton are exhorbitant = lack of English tourists/day trippers. The problem is that Brighton has a diversity of inhabitants and does tend to do outlandish things like voting the Green party in both locally and parliamentary. Still only a couple of years to go and it should change the politics for us. Let's just hope it's not too late!!

Oy vey, I think you mean genteel!

Did you not read the bit at the end about more people than ever looking at the website. As already commented above, Brighton attracts a young audience...the sort of audience who would look on a website rather than go to a Tourist Information Centre. Somehow linking the number of visitors to an information centre and parking charges is stupidity itself. It's genuinely worrying. A 10 year old child would probably question the validity of such a statement without more relevant facts. Has the number of cars parking gone down? Has the number of people using public transport gone down? Has footfall gone down? How much is to do with the weather? The Olympics? Impossible to say.

Hundreds of possible variables, yet people manage to provide 'conclusive proof' that one affects the other. Not only that, but that it's the only affecting variable.

F in L wrote:
Why would you travel to Brighton to sit and watch the effluent wash against the littered stone and pebble beach. Pay the ridiculous parking charges and eat and drink in the squalor that is Brighton!

Okay, so if it wasn't for the parking charges you'd:

"travel to Brighton to sit and watch the effluent wash against the littered stone and pebble beach. And eat and drink in the squalor"

Hmm, it seems that parking charges are the least of your deciding factors.

I don't visit Brighton and Hove or Lewes or Eastbourne much now because of the high parking charges.

Bexhill I've just discovered - beautiful, clean, lots of nice places to eat and FREE PARKING!

StyleCop wrote:

ruberducker wrote:
It is not only the tourist's that provide a revenue,we as resident's sustain our economy all year,but we all have the good sence not to attempt to go into the town,becuase of the parking problems,and the general cost of living in general"gas,ele

ctric ,council tax,the cost of rent/morgage and car to get to work and the fuel tax to make it go,the road tax ,insurance"the price of food,and general living cost's.there is not much, if any spare money to go into the town where prices are high.

Brighton & Hove isn't that big a place you know, It's quite possible to get around on foot... and good for you.

I challenge you to walk from say Patcham, Hollingbury or Hangleton to the city centre and carry back your shopping ! Add in that many people are either elderly or have children they need to take with them and walking is hardly practical. Never mind, the longer the Greens continue their policy of persecuting car owners the more people will decide to use out of town shops or other towns facilities altogether.

There's some very poor logic in some of these comments. Whether the average Brighton visitor goes to the Tourist Information office is irrelevant. The point is that a large number - a decent sized sample - historically do, but fewer have done since the new parking charges. If the weather was responsible, Tourist Information offices in other nearby cities would see the same level of impact, but the reduction is greater in Brighton, therefore the weather doesn't explain all of it, and there must be something else depressing visitor numbers.

It's not an ideal indicator but it is a reasonable one.

Those who 'claim' to be going to Eastbourne and Seaford to avoid B&H parking charges: how much does that cost you in petrol, round trip? And once you've deducted that from the cost of parking in Brighton, is there actually a difference? I mean I'm sure you're not making it up, just to have a dig at the greens.

jamus77 wrote:
Those who 'claim' to be going to Eastbourne and Seaford to avoid B&H parking charges: how much does that cost you in petrol, round trip? And once you've deducted that from the cost of parking in Brighton, is there actually a difference? I mean I'm sure you're not making it up, just to have a dig at the greens.

To park for 4 hours on Madeira Drive it costs £10, it does not cost £10 in fuel the drive form Fiveways to Seaford. It could be argued that we could go to Brighton beach on the bus, but that would cost £13.20 for 2 adults and 2 children, plus there is all the stuff required for family day out on the beach As for ‘having a dig at the Greens’, if the cap fits etc etc

£4.00 ph in church st,
just go to out of town supermakets.no traffic, no cyclist,no busses, no students.no problem!

Fight_Back wrote:

StyleCop wrote:

ruberducker wrote: It is not only the tourist's that provide a revenue,we as resident's sustain our economy all year,but we all have the good sence not to attempt to go into the town,becuase of the parking problems,and the general cost of living in general"gas,ele ctric ,council tax,the cost of rent/morgage and car to get to work and the fuel tax to make it go,the road tax ,insurance"the price of food,and general living cost's.there is not much, if any spare money to go into the town where prices are high.

Brighton & Hove isn't that big a place you know, It's quite possible to get around on foot... and good for you.

I challenge you to walk from say Patcham, Hollingbury or Hangleton to the city centre and carry back your shopping ! Add in that many people are either elderly or have children they need to take with them and walking is hardly practical. Never mind, the longer the Greens continue their policy of persecuting car owners the more people will decide to use out of town shops or other towns facilities altogether.

Granted - under those circumstances I'd accept that walking isn't practical - but I used to regularly walk 7 miles into Manchester, Cycle 12 miles to Macclesfield (when I lived oop north) - in the midlands I'd cycle 7 miles to Coventry - and now I'm one of those 'out of towners' that live in B&H - I currently/regularly run in, out, round and about the city of B&H, in fact I did the West Pier > Hangleton > Devils Dyke > Chattri > Ladies Mile/Carden avenue > East Pier loop only this sunday... so in all honesty the challenge of walking from Patcham/Hangleton with shopping is one that I woudn't find too much of an effort - and of course, there's always the bus...? --- I guess I'm lucky to have my health, but I do take your point.

But, my point is, regardless of where I've lived I tended to opt for my feet, so long as I've had the time... and even then I'd walk between bus stops in the general direction of where I want to get - Inspired by stories of my grandparents who used to walk miles to school, and work, and shops, across fields etc...

People have become lazy. Modern society IS lazy... the more people use their legs, and carry themselves from place to place under their own steam the more of the world they will see... there's nothing like the reward of a hot cup of tea and putting your feet up after you've earned it.

clearbluesky wrote:
There's some very poor logic in some of these comments. Whether the average Brighton visitor goes to the Tourist Information office is irrelevant. The point is that a large number - a decent sized sample - historically do, but fewer have done since the new parking charges. If the weather was responsible, Tourist Information offices in other nearby cities would see the same level of impact, but the reduction is greater in Brighton, therefore the weather doesn't explain all of it, and there must be something else depressing visitor numbers.

It's not an ideal indicator but it is a reasonable one.

Maybe car parking charges have taken effect. Maybe people are utilising their time in town more effectively by looking online prior to their visit rather than wasting time (and therefore money) going to visitor centres once they are there? But perhaps they are still spending as much money and time in Brighton. Perhaps they are spending more as they can cram more into their day by planning ahead? Who knows?

What's the historical data? Do visitors to the information centre correlate to visitor numbers to Brighton?

Eastbourne dropped 3%, why? Why has Bournemouth's gone up? Has it increased it's opening hours? Moved it's information centre? Increased the number of centres? What about other information centres? Only 3 in the whole country have been listed.

Without a vast array of data, it is impossible to link car parking charges to a decrease in visitors to the parking. Impossible

Presumably Todmorden have increased their parking charges.... it's the only reasonably explanation for a decrease in visitors http://www.todmorden
news.co.uk/news/loca
l/bad-weather-hits-t
ourist-numbers-1-491
8253.

And who knows what Oxford must've put their parking charges up to, as they've had a 51% drop in visitors to their information centre this July. http://www.oxfordmai
l.co.uk/news/9919191
.Games_and_rain_put_
tourism_in_doldrums/
?ref=nt

This is such a tenuous link to say that overall numbers of visitors to a visitor information centre mean that less people have been to Brighton

How about smartphone and tablet usages to find your way about? (July 2012 article) -

"The number of UK households using tablets and smartphones has risen sharply over last 12 months, according to research by Ofcom.
The regulator's research shows 39% of UK adults now own a smartphone, which is 12 percentage points higher than last year's figures."

This fact on its own could figure into any reduction to visitor centre numbers.

It's been said before and I will say it again, parking charges since April have hurt Brighton and Hove bad. Good thing is, other towns in the county benefit so not all is lost.

getThisCoalitionOut wrote:
I don't visit Brighton and Hove or Lewes or Eastbourne much now because of the high parking charges. Bexhill I've just discovered - beautiful, clean, lots of nice places to eat and FREE PARKING!

Really Bexhill? I might have to check it out. No wait, Mid Sussex is also cheap and full of lovely places too, actually everywhere is in Sussex!!. Brighton is the most expensive place to park in the whole of the county!!! I'm from Brighton and love it a lot so find myself paying quite a lot in churchill square car park!!!

Shouldn't they take into account the number of people using the internet for information before reaching conclusions such as this?

I have family who have regularly visited me in Brighton ! now they stay in Eastbourne and pick me up ! its cheaper to book me in a hotel or b+b there than to pay for parking charges in Brighton for a week!! surely that says something??

getThisCoalitionOut wrote:
I don't visit Brighton and Hove or Lewes or Eastbourne much now because of the high parking charges. Bexhill I've just discovered - beautiful, clean, lots of nice places to eat and FREE PARKING!

So do I

johnboy1 wrote:

clearbluesky wrote:
There's some very poor logic in some of these comments. Whether the average Brighton visitor goes to the Tourist Information office is irrelevant. The point is that a large number - a decent sized sample - historically do, but fewer have done since the new parking charges. If the weather was responsible, Tourist Information offices in other nearby cities would see the same level of impact, but the reduction is greater in Brighton, therefore the weather doesn't explain all of it, and there must be something else depressing visitor numbers.

It's not an ideal indicator but it is a reasonable one.

Maybe car parking charges have taken effect. Maybe people are utilising their time in town more effectively by looking online prior to their visit rather than wasting time (and therefore money) going to visitor centres once they are there? But perhaps they are still spending as much money and time in Brighton. Perhaps they are spending more as they can cram more into their day by planning ahead? Who knows?

What's the historical data? Do visitors to the information centre correlate to visitor numbers to Brighton?

Eastbourne dropped 3%, why? Why has Bournemouth's gone up? Has it increased it's opening hours? Moved it's information centre? Increased the number of centres? What about other information centres? Only 3 in the whole country have been listed.

Without a vast array of data, it is impossible to link car parking charges to a decrease in visitors to the parking. Impossible

Actually its more than possible with some basic knowledge of econometrics and GCSE maths. Though nothing in life is ever certain, it is possible to make 'highly likely' connections statistically, such as car parking charges depressing visitor numbers.

Yes, its perfectly possible and indeed it may well have an effect..but not with the information above. Ask yourself what is missing, not what is there. Why are only 2 towns listed? Strange sample size if you wanted to prove a point. Maybe they got 10 answers but only 2 suited their story. How do you explain oxford going down? Bournemouths going up could easily be due to the Olympics in weymouth. You can't make conclusions based on a study of 3 towns over a 3 month period.

george smith wrote:

getThisCoalitionOut wrote:
I don't visit Brighton and Hove or Lewes or Eastbourne much now because of the high parking charges. Bexhill I've just discovered - beautiful, clean, lots of nice places to eat and FREE PARKING!

So do I

Suggest you relocate there!

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:

george smith wrote:

getThisCoalitionOut wrote: I don't visit Brighton and Hove or Lewes or Eastbourne much now because of the high parking charges. Bexhill I've just discovered - beautiful, clean, lots of nice places to eat and FREE PARKING!

So do I

Suggest you relocate there!

So following your rather ludicrous theory, everyone that visits Brighton and tells people about they like it, should relocate to Brighton?