Huge shortfall in parking (From The Argus)

The local authority blames the loss of income on the bad weather throughout the summer months---------Of course they do. Otherwise they would have to admit the truth. They've c0cked up big time. It's time this council went, and one that can do the job is elected

Some people stop for less than an hour paying the pound moving on quicker. Putting it to 3,50 for an hour they drive on. You either charge less and get quicker pass through or charge outrageously and get less.charity shops also don't seem to realise this it is one pound that is parted with more often than two or three quick turn over or left empty on shelf no way will I pay 3,50 to park on around the level London rd rather go to eastbourne or Worthing free parking

Funny how more people use the car in bad weather, also who is going to pay £3.50 for ten minutes to go in a shop for some bread or milk.
I now walk into the city or take the car to Eastbourne or Worthing on my days off where I can save up to £20 on parking.
Even London is cheaper and free parking from early evening and Sundays and not having to wait till 8pm in Brighton

righton wrote:
Some people stop for less than an hour paying the pound moving on quicker. Putting it to 3,50 for an hour they drive on. You either charge less and get quicker pass through or charge outrageously and get less.charity shops also don't seem to realise this it is one pound that is parted with more often than two or three quick turn over or left empty on shelf no way will I pay 3,50 to park on around the level London rd rather go to eastbourne or Worthing free parking

I have always thought that the parking charges should be looked at again, but many of you doth protest too much. Are you really telling us that you would rather spend £5-£6 and a lot of extra time driving to Worthing or Eastbourne to save £3.50? That is peverse.

I have no doubt the weather has played a large part for the shortfall, it has been pretty dire except for a few short spells of good weather in the last couple of months. There have been so few good weekends that the city has been swamped and the beach strewn with litter as reported in this paper when the weather has been good.

Of course the national government monthly blames the weather (too cold, too hot, too wet, too dry) and bank holidays for the dire state of the economy.

Put up parking charges and you will put off some people from visiting B&H, but is business lost overall, I am not convinced.

I have never owned a car and have no choice about shopping. My easiest option is to get a bus into the centre of Brighton. When I moved here I quickly discovered that people with cars never shop in the centre of Brighton. If I have visitors with cars we always go out of Brighton and spend elsewhere. The council needs to wake up to this, and it is not just the recent increases in parking charges that are the problem. The Tories were no better.

For everything in life there is a point at which the cost can outweigh the desire and people decide its not worth it. I just hope that B&H council can at least entertain the possibility that they are pricing themselves out of the market.
I also hope that those who have left comments here also participated in this:
http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/index.cf
m?request=c1258455

Stall69 wrote:
For everything in life there is a point at which the cost can outweigh the desire and people decide its not worth it. I just hope that B&H council can at least entertain the possibility that they are pricing themselves out of the market.
I also hope that those who have left comments here also participated in this:
http://www.brighton-

hove.gov.uk/index.cf

m?request=c1258455

Totally agree, its cheaper to DRIVE to Seaford, park for free and have a stress free day in a lovely place which is what it used to be like here!

I guess thats just how its going to be. I always walk (or cycle) into town now, never drive - the expense of parking definitely drives that behavoiur (along with a realisation that sitting at a desk at all isn't going to shift the calories!)
and I can see that quite a few people are doing the same.

That can't be a bad thing, but it may lead to a change in the profile of shoppers and when they shop. That'll be a challenge to shop owners and if they have any intelligence they'll cotton onto that and change their offering and make their customer service stand out from the crowd

I work during the day and do my shopping in the town I'm working in (I'm an electrician and work wherever my callouts take me).

I used to enjoy getting jobs in Brighton as I enjoy the town's vibe like the variety of independent shops.

If I work in town centre I am forced to pay £25 for a day ticket (pay& display are limited to max 2 or 4 hours ). That cost goes back to the customer (a Brightonian).

For shorter jobs, I resent having to put in an extra £3.50 so I can have a walk around town after finishing my job, and putting that money (earned in Brighton) back in Brighton (in independent shops.

They parking scheme here has really backfired.

If the Council encouraged drivers to leave their cars at a decent Park & Ride rather than the woeful effort at Withdean Stadium revenue could be topped-up by the visitor numbers.

But if the Greens steps back in the parking scheme, what excuse will you use to ask for their resignation and new elections?

In the sticks wrote:
I work during the day and do my shopping in the town I'm working in (I'm an electrician and work wherever my callouts take me).

I used to enjoy getting jobs in Brighton as I enjoy the town's vibe like the variety of independent shops.

If I work in town centre I am forced to pay £25 for a day ticket (pay& display are limited to max 2 or 4 hours ). That cost goes back to the customer (a Brightonian).

For shorter jobs, I resent having to put in an extra £3.50 so I can have a walk around town after finishing my job, and putting that money (earned in Brighton) back in Brighton (in independent shops.

They parking scheme here has really backfired.

Totally agree with you and the previous comments, I never drive into Brighton town centre which no doubt pleases the Dumb Greens, and consequently all my shopping is done out of town now.

There is no way I am paying the ridiculous amount of £7, given that it takes usually upto 2hrs for a decent walk round shopping, when I can park for free elsewhere.

I pity traders in Brighton, all down to a council voted in by "trendy" students and loony lentil eaters!

HJarrs, you say you are not convinced by the stats about parking fees.
It's strange that you are quite happy about the stats and lies the Green Party issued about the Lewes Road scheme.
You seem to be a conflicted person or just an obsessive Green Party supporter.
FYI, since the fees have been introduced, three vehicles have started parking in the street where I live and the owners take bikes out and then cycle into town.
So they are still travelling into the city, just not parking in fee paying bays.
I myself have taken to driving onto the seafront and not paying to park and not straying too far from the car as I am fit enough to run before the tubby ticket issuer arrives to ticket me.
Also I hear that the Volks Railway will run all year which means people will park in the Marina for free and then pay for the little train into the city which is far cheaper.
The real test will be in winter when the restaurants are desperate for cusotmers in the week and have always taken part in marketing such as the Argus meal for a tenner or some sort of meal deal....the businesses stuggled to get business in the winter and wont stand a chance when the customers face a £7 fee to park on a deserted sea front on a wet Monday night.
It was a silly idea but the council wont listen. They are rabid about their own ideas and do NOT listen to any feedback which will be their downfall.

There's a shortfall. Let's close the shortfall by putting the prices up!

Oh, wait. That's what we've already tried and which created the shortfall....

Plan B: Let's put the prices down to a reasonable level and see more of those spaces used and earning money. More people visiting town, spending money in shops, cafes, restaurants.... More jobs for Brighton and Hove. Doesn't that sound like a plan?

It's a shame Nick that the Greens are so stubborn they will not accept feedback from residents. They are incapable of entering dialogue and it will be their downfall.
They will not even do a trial of an area to see if reducing fees generates more custom.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
HJarrs, you say you are not convinced by the stats about parking fees. It's strange that you are quite happy about the stats and lies the Green Party issued about the Lewes Road scheme. You seem to be a conflicted person or just an obsessive Green Party supporter. FYI, since the fees have been introduced, three vehicles have started parking in the street where I live and the owners take bikes out and then cycle into town. So they are still travelling into the city, just not parking in fee paying bays. I myself have taken to driving onto the seafront and not paying to park and not straying too far from the car as I am fit enough to run before the tubby ticket issuer arrives to ticket me. Also I hear that the Volks Railway will run all year which means people will park in the Marina for free and then pay for the little train into the city which is far cheaper. The real test will be in winter when the restaurants are desperate for cusotmers in the week and have always taken part in marketing such as the Argus meal for a tenner or some sort of meal deal....the businesses stuggled to get business in the winter and wont stand a chance when the customers face a £7 fee to park on a deserted sea front on a wet Monday night. It was a silly idea but the council wont listen. They are rabid about their own ideas and do NOT listen to any feedback which will be their downfall.

Did you actually read what I posted? I am quite in favour of a parking charge review. The charges seem too high to me but also the wailing and gnashing of teeth by many of the posters is much overdone.

But I have issues with the story's spin. Is anyone actually going to suggest that the wettest summer since a very long time is not going to affect the number of people who want to come to the seaside and their consequent spend? How many good days of weathe rdid we have this summer? Not many and when we did the town was busting at the seams.

As for the Lewes Rd anyone can look back through the numerous times we have both posted on that subject and come to their own conclusions upon where we stand, whether anybody is that interested.

I am still waiting for you to paste up the link to the Lewes Rd press release you keep reffering to as I can't find it.

Lets not be too critical here. The policy has had some desirable effects for the local (city center) populace. A bit more space to move around, less pollution, and it's easier to park. The balance will shift towards the more affluent types who wish to a have a relaxing time, rather than those unpleasant "rat pack" type crowds of commoners you get coming. As for the economy, well most of the cosmopolitan locals don't work in Brighton anyway, what does it matter if a few takeaways close down? A re-sizing and re-branding of Brighton towards a more exclusive feel will be a good thing all in all.

As you well know Hjarrs, the press release is on the B&H City Council website in the press release archive.
This would have been written by a press officer under instruction from a councillor or officer.
It would then go through an approval process usually with the last say being given to the political party in power.
So either the Greens allowed the lies to be published, or someone sent it to the media without agreement.
If that is the case it should be withdrawn.
You know which press release I am talking about as you mentioned it last week...the one which states that there was overwhelming support for the scheme.

Jo Wadsworth, last week the city council issued a press notice which The Argus published about the results of the Lewes Road consultation.
This release was also available on the council website in the archive.
The 'misrepresentation' of figures was criticised by myself and others on these posts.
It appears that this release has now 'disappeared' from the council archive.
Interesting story for the Argus.
Who ordered the removal of that press release from the council website after it had been sent to the press?
Come on, there's something going on here.

Oh how the increase in Parking charges have backfired on the Greens.
Now let me think.How do we get our money back.?

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
Jo Wadsworth, last week the city council issued a press notice which The Argus published about the results of the Lewes Road consultation.
This release was also available on the council website in the archive.
The 'misrepresentation' of figures was criticised by myself and others on these posts.
It appears that this release has now 'disappeared' from the council archive.
Interesting story for the Argus.
Who ordered the removal of that press release from the council website after it had been sent to the press?
Come on, there's something going on here.

Hence, having had another look in the archive this would explain why I couldn't find it.

Who knows why it has been withdrawn but if it was because it contains errors then that would be a good thing wouldn't it? A bit like the corrections to Argus stories that have to be made when errors are pointed out by posters.

It still doesn't alter the fact that the majority of those that responded to the Lewes Rd consultation were favourable to the scheme. At the end of the day it is a consultation not a vote or referendum. I also note that, according to the Council web page for the scheme, some changes have been incorporated from the consultation.

I believe the parking price hike was intended to reduce unnecessary car journeys, not to put a stop to visits.

We have a really serious, ILLEGAL, air quality problem and the city stands to be fined by the EU for it if it is not sorted.

That said, I liked the comment a day or two back about what Lewisham does. Free 15-20 minutes parking and then charging. This would help traders; but it would increase the need for wardens to enforce it and prevent abuses.

Some journeys cannot be taken by bus.....like an Old Shoreham Road resident's example and her liking for a seafront visit after work to just unwind for an hour there. And she is not a cyclist.

Cycling these days does require a willingness to risk being hit by a vehicle or to ride on pavements. Many resist this.

Like many others who have already commented and as residents of Brighton, all of our shopping is done out of town and we never drive into the centre of town, due entirely to the cost of parking. The centre of Brighton has no shops to attract anyone nowadays anyway (is that why everyone is dressed scruffily these days, or is it because the people dress that way that the decent clothes shops moved out?).
Most of the people I work with in Surrey will not go to Brighton any longer, even when the weather is good, precisely because of the cost of parking. A few couldn't believe they had been ticketed on a Bank Hoilday and word spreads very quickly.
Still the Greens know what's best for us, don't they?

They might be missing 700k but where do the traders send the bill for 70 million in lost business? Jason Kitcat could not run a bath let alone a city. His own business only records just over 7k profit last year. And Ian Daveys only claim to fame is the failed Bike for life charity. Poor Bill Randal. I ran a business, yes Bill but 10 years ago.
And for a great business friendly finish from the Greens we have the animal rights nutters protesting on Western Rd this Saturday. Police already warning traders that the may be targetted. Nice

You are correct...the majority of those who responded.
That is not the same as the majority of people.
I am a stickler for accuracy no matter which party is involved.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
It's a shame Nick that the Greens are so stubborn they will not accept feedback from residents. They are incapable of entering dialogue and it will be their downfall.
They will not even do a trial of an area to see if reducing fees generates more custom.

spot on comment

I agree with the point Mike Holland made in the Argus interview. Lets reduce the charges of parking to an average of the parking charges at Eastbourne, Hastings, Worthing and Bournemouth and bring back jobs and visitors to Brighton. Not everyone is rich like Caroline Lucas or Jason Kitkat and these charges are devastating if you are on a normal income.

We have four children, I know, it's our fault! (I can't even blame Thatcher for that one!) My point is this; if we get on the bus from hollingbury a return journey will cost us £17.60. This is hardly a carrot to get local people to use public transport methinks.

If I am stopping for less than half an hour its easier not to pay and take a chance, and a lot of others do the same you see them watching their cars as they pop in and out of shops. if there was a 20p 15 minute charge I would pay no worries. the greens are leading us all to believe the air pollution is so bad because of all those terrible cars (that are now more fuel effiecient than ever) by allowing so many road works and terrible road schemes that cause congestion and pollution to further their false cause. The only benefit to me is that it keeps the masses out of the city centre and allows more space for me and my car. The parking charges will only make the city centre more exclusive. the council cannot control the bus fares and they are too high to encourage more affluent people to use them. I do cycle and bus when i want to, not when I am being told to. free parking for eco cars would help, and healthy young students should sign up to not owning a car when accepting a place at our universities.

inadaptado wrote:
But if the Greens steps back in the parking scheme, what excuse will you use to ask for their resignation and new elections?

Their policy on allowing pikeys, sorry, travellers, to park their expensive caravans and mobile homes around the open spaces of Brighton and Hove completely free of charge and responsibility - perhaps?

vogon1 wrote:

inadaptado wrote:
But if the Greens steps back in the parking scheme, what excuse will you use to ask for their resignation and new elections?

Their policy on allowing pikeys, sorry, travellers, to park their expensive caravans and mobile homes around the open spaces of Brighton and Hove completely free of charge and responsibility - perhaps?

Totally agree vogon they haven't even implement their plan to blow £1.7m on their fantastic to extend the so called travellers site and thus destroy the south downs at horsdean and subsequently put the local people in the midst of a ghetto full of thieves and criminals. Don't call me racist, I speak the truth.

As Brighton residents the best way we've found to beat the high parking and bus charges is to work as a team. From Fiveways I'll drive my wife into the centre of Brighton and drop her off, I'll then drive home again. When she's ready she rings me up and come out and pick her and the shopping up. The combined total of the four trips is about £1.60 in petrol - if that. I drive my wife's car (I don't have one) which admittedly is a Ford KA, but you'd need to have quite a thirsty car before the economics work against you.

And like others we've also gone to Eastbourne, Crawley and Worthing, which I'm guessing is what the council want us to do as it means less traffic in the town centre.

I do the same thing. Two trips to the town and back.pain in the arse for me but a lot lot cheaper

Speaking of travellers' sites, here's an idea. Refuse to clear up after them and see what the next lot do. Regards parking charges, it seems to be cheaper to park at Gatwick according to their advert on this page

HJarrs wrote:

righton wrote:
Some people stop for less than an hour paying the pound moving on quicker. Putting it to 3,50 for an hour they drive on. You either charge less and get quicker pass through or charge outrageously and get less.charity shops also don't seem to realise this it is one pound that is parted with more often than two or three quick turn over or left empty on shelf no way will I pay 3,50 to park on around the level London rd rather go to eastbourne or Worthing free parking

I have always thought that the parking charges should be looked at again, but many of you doth protest too much. Are you really telling us that you would rather spend £5-£6 and a lot of extra time driving to Worthing or Eastbourne to save £3.50? That is peverse.

I have no doubt the weather has played a large part for the shortfall, it has been pretty dire except for a few short spells of good weather in the last couple of months. There have been so few good weekends that the city has been swamped and the beach strewn with litter as reported in this paper when the weather has been good.

Of course the national government monthly blames the weather (too cold, too hot, too wet, too dry) and bank holidays for the dire state of the economy.

Put up parking charges and you will put off some people from visiting B&H, but is business lost overall, I am not convinced.

Re your comment about spending the extra time driving somewhere else to save a few quid, it's more the principle of the thing. The council have increased the price of parking because they don't want people to use it - so we don't.

We also resent being the victims of a somewhat-flawed ideology that thinks that private cars are intrinsically 'bad' and that if the traffic is discouraged from coming into Brighton it will make the place 'better' and also help save the planet. I'm guessing you don't share that view.

To be fair, it seems to me that the idea of raising parking prices has been exceptionally successful in reducing cars in town.

Shame the numpties running the council didn't think of their (presumably) unintended consequences such as ruining the livelihood of local traders through a reduction in visitors and shoppers.

The problem with all ideologists is they are so focussed on their own little issues they fail to understand the bigger picture and inevitably they alienate almost everybody - except H Jarrs of course !

Roll on the local elections.

By the way why can't we comment on travellers anti social behaviours on this website any more ?

Can't wait till the greens "carefull what you wish for" get kicked out,which they will.

Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:
To be fair, it seems to me that the idea of raising parking prices has been exceptionally successful in reducing cars in town. Shame the numpties running the council didn't think of their (presumably) unintended consequences such as ruining the livelihood of local traders through a reduction in visitors and shoppers. The problem with all ideologists is they are so focussed on their own little issues they fail to understand the bigger picture and inevitably they alienate almost everybody - except H Jarrs of course ! Roll on the local elections. By the way why can't we comment on travellers anti social behaviours on this website any more ?

What I don't understand is why they don't care about wild park, fell the trees and fill it with sheep at great expense.
Too busy with their noses in the funding trough to care about residents wishes. Behaving like eco fascists

Fairfax Sakes wrote:
Lets not be too critical here. The policy has had some desirable effects for the local (city center) populace. A bit more space to move around, less pollution, and it's easier to park. The balance will shift towards the more affluent types who wish to a have a relaxing time, rather than those unpleasant "rat pack" type crowds of commoners you get coming. As for the economy, well most of the cosmopolitan locals don't work in Brighton anyway, what does it matter if a few takeaways close down? A re-sizing and re-branding of Brighton towards a more exclusive feel will be a good thing all in all.

Lovely satire, but wasted on the Greens.

Payback for the Tory controlled GREEN Brighton and Hove Council....
Give us a break! greedy greens!!

HJarrs lives in Hanover, which is a stone's throw and a ten minute walk to doctors surgeried, dentists, supermarkets and all other key fecilities.
He also does not come from the town so probably doesn't have family dotted all over the town on various estates so his life is probably in the one square Regency mile with the odd train trip to London and the odd hire of the City Car Club vehicle.
Until people live the real local life and understand the needs and desires of people, you wont get a sustainable transport system which actually works for the customers instead of people like HJarrs and the Greens introducing schemes to force human behaviour change.
Understanding human need has to be understood before a solution is created, not introduce a scheme hoping that the scheme is a driver for change.
That is why the bike lanes are generally empty....and I am a cyclist.
A good example will be an eco Toads Hole. Fine build eco homes, but if you think a private transport company can be left to serve a far off estate on a steep hill adequately, then you haven't lived in Coldean, Hangleton, Woodingdean etc.
Live it first HJarrs. It truly is impossible for all 300,000 of the city's residents to live right in the centre of the town.
You many actually have some good genuinely valuable contributions if you go and live on the outskirts and get to udnerstand the challenges.
They aren't the same as living in Brent or Hanover.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
HJarrs lives in Hanover, which is a stone's throw and a ten minute walk to doctors surgeried, dentists, supermarkets and all other key fecilities. He also does not come from the town so probably doesn't have family dotted all over the town on various estates so his life is probably in the one square Regency mile with the odd train trip to London and the odd hire of the City Car Club vehicle. Until people live the real local life and understand the needs and desires of people, you wont get a sustainable transport system which actually works for the customers instead of people like HJarrs and the Greens introducing schemes to force human behaviour change. Understanding human need has to be understood before a solution is created, not introduce a scheme hoping that the scheme is a driver for change. That is why the bike lanes are generally empty....and I am a cyclist. A good example will be an eco Toads Hole. Fine build eco homes, but if you think a private transport company can be left to serve a far off estate on a steep hill adequately, then you haven't lived in Coldean, Hangleton, Woodingdean etc. Live it first HJarrs. It truly is impossible for all 300,000 of the city's residents to live right in the centre of the town. You many actually have some good genuinely valuable contributions if you go and live on the outskirts and get to udnerstand the challenges. They aren't the same as living in Brent or Hanover.

Bikes are interesting in terms of human need, they were the mainstay of travel in China, but now the chinese can afford cars, they are off their bikes and into cars. If you are retired or unemployed or retired bikes and public transport are fine, but for those working with kids without nannies and other staff you need a car just to be able to fit everything into the day.

Absolutely George. I cycle a 30 mile round trip to work.
Each morning I check the wind speed and direction as it impacts on the time needed to get to and from work.
I am time rich as I don't have kids to pick up from school otherwise it would be a real challenge.
I can also tell you that putting just two panniers on a bike with shopping in it to wheel up bear road takes a huge feat of strength . I honestly challenge Jason kit Kat and bill Randall to this challenge.
We can meet up and we can do it together.

HJarrs wrote:

Maxwell's Ghost wrote: Jo Wadsworth, last week the city council issued a press notice which The Argus published about the results of the Lewes Road consultation. This release was also available on the council website in the archive. The 'misrepresentation' of figures was criticised by myself and others on these posts. It appears that this release has now 'disappeared' from the council archive. Interesting story for the Argus. Who ordered the removal of that press release from the council website after it had been sent to the press? Come on, there's something going on here.

Hence, having had another look in the archive this would explain why I couldn't find it. Who knows why it has been withdrawn but if it was because it contains errors then that would be a good thing wouldn't it? A bit like the corrections to Argus stories that have to be made when errors are pointed out by posters. It still doesn't alter the fact that the majority of those that responded to the Lewes Rd consultation were favourable to the scheme. At the end of the day it is a consultation not a vote or referendum. I also note that, according to the Council web page for the scheme, some changes have been incorporated from the consultation.

When I looked at the Lewes Road consultation documents, there was no mention of heavy goods vehicles using the roads, which means the whole process is flawed. Of course it would be typical of the council to conveniently forget that a large number of HGVs use the road, especially the never ending Veolia lorries transporting our rubbish

And the kingspan lorries at moulsecoombe. It's going to be a death defying experience trying to turn right for cyclists and vehicles without traffic lights at every right turn along that route.
And which motorists are going to let buses come out of the bus lane into the outside lane to turn right into Bevendean........non
e.
The poor driver of the number 28.

Meanwhile Worthing is thriving

Meanwhile Worthing is thriving

Crystal Ball wrote:
If the Council encouraged drivers to leave their cars at a decent Park & Ride rather than the woeful effort at Withdean Stadium revenue could be topped-up by the visitor numbers.

not a chance whilst the greens are in. it needs a council with vision to do that, and the greens cannot see further than the ends of their noses, and neither could previous councils. the city needs P&R sites located on the 4 main roads into it, ie, near the marina, lewes rd, london road, and somewhere to the west, say near sainsburys, portslade. all P&R buses would be limited stop, terminating at the steine, running every 10-15 mins. that way, everyone would know where to get the return bus, and when they ran. i would also have special fares, say £4 return for a family, and free parking.

Crystal Ball wrote:
If the Council encouraged drivers to leave their cars at a decent Park & Ride rather than the woeful effort at Withdean Stadium revenue could be topped-up by the visitor numbers.

Plans for a Park and Ride were shelved as soon as the Green party came into power. They decided to build the Traveller site at Patcham instead.

What is ironic is that a Park and Ride is a truly "green" solution for Brighton, relieving our streets of traffic and pollution and fuel consumption, while a Traveller site has nothing to do with the environment, it's merely social engineering. The Greens are not green.

Yeah! I think they strong-ed it a bit with the double parking charges, but, as they say ''It was more to keep the traffic down in the city centre''.

Park & Rides like Withdean just WON'T hack it anymore!
the Greens have the solution. I know because I gave them the idea long ago.
We just have to be patient and wait for them to formulate the conception.
If and when they do, then we will have an exceptional attraction for our famous city that will blow your small minds into space....?

Say no more, but it will be a BIGGY!!

Let travellers sit in their own cr*p and put the money into giving residents and visitors value for money.

I see the pikeys are back along lewes road (wild park) our money has been used to put big bins their but they prefer to throw their cr*p on the floor.

boblat wrote:
Yeah! I think they strong-ed it a bit with the double parking charges, but, as they say ''It was more to keep the traffic down in the city centre''.

Park & Rides like Withdean just WON'T hack it anymore!
the Greens have the solution. I know because I gave them the idea long ago.
We just have to be patient and wait for them to formulate the conception.
If and when they do, then we will have an exceptional attraction for our famous city that will blow your small minds into space....?

Say no more, but it will be a BIGGY!!

I've seen that Simpsons episode as well.