Brighton and Hove council tax rise could go to referendum (From The Argus)
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Brighton and Hove council tax rise could go to referendum
9:26am Monday 8th October 2012 in News By Peter Truman
Brighton and Hove residents could hold the key to deciding how much tax they pay next year.
Brighton and Hove City Council’s ruling Green administration is drawing up plans for a 3.5% rise in council tax next year.
But its plans were dealt a fresh blow yesterday after the Government announced any rise of more than 2% would automatically trigger a referendum.
It means the minority administration would first have to persuade opposition groups to agree to a rise and then would have to ask residents to ratify it.
If locals rejected the rise the council would be forced to scrap its plans and set a budget based on a maximum tax rise of 2%.
The move was announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne who said he wanted to freeze council tax for the third year in a row.
He said councils would be given additional grants equivalent to them setting a rates rise of 1% if they agreed not to increase tax.
Last year Green plans to increase council tax were defeated when Labour and Conservative councillors voted together against them.
An Argus referendum in January revealed 68% of readers were against the increase.
Council leader Jason Kitcat said he was keen for history not to repeat itself but wanted to stick by his party’s plans for a tax increase.
He said: “We will look at whatever comes out of government next week.
“If it is the same deal as last year I would be very unlikely to support it.
“My aim is to try to find some sort of cross party consensus on the budget. We want to deliver services and so I hope we could find some common ground. If not we will go to a vote and see how that goes.”
Were there to be a referendum, the cost of which would likely run into the tens of thousands of pounds, it would be organised by the council and voters would be given at least 28 days to decide.
In the interim the tax rate would increase but if voters rejected the proposals the money would be credited back onto their bills.
Coun Kitcat can rule out any support from Conservative group leader Geoffrey Theobald, who maintained his stance for a freeze.
He said: “I have always said there should be a council tax freeze. Residents should not have it inflicted upon them. No doubt Mr Kitcat will try again though. If there is a referendum we will not support the rise and Argus readers and the city’s residents will say no to it.”
But Labour group leader Councillor Gill Mitchell was more measured in her response.
She said: “We will wait to see if there will be a council tax freeze grant offered which is not clear at the moment. We want to protect people’s budgets as far as possible.”
Hove MP Mike Weatherley supported the idea of a referendum, something he pushed for last year.
He said: “The Green Party needs to explain why it wants the rise and it is right we ask the people on something so important as council tax and money.”
Comments(42)
Joshiman
says...
9:51am Mon 8 Oct 12
linnig
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10:00am Mon 8 Oct 12
pwlr1966
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10:04am Mon 8 Oct 12
Kate234
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10:11am Mon 8 Oct 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
10:23am Mon 8 Oct 12
If they're going to have a referendum I wish they'd let us vote on what we think the money would be spent on, a bit like that on-line budget exercise they did last year. I really enjoyed doing that - and I was able to balance the budget!
Omnishambles_1
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10:23am Mon 8 Oct 12
linnig wrote:What are you talking about? I'm assuming that was just a joke?
Why cant cyclists contribute towards the cost of cycle lanes? £10 a year for their 'tax' would bring in a few quid and help towards the cost of running this city.
While we're at it let's implement a tax on the disabled community, their electronic wheel chairs are eating up the pavement gravel like fat pat on new years; this is actually more likely to happen because of course you actually have to actually register to be deemed a disabled person. Unlike all those hippie cyclists just roaming around carefree - let's tax them as well! (?)
fascinator
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11:17am Mon 8 Oct 12
pjwilk
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11:18am Mon 8 Oct 12
Dealing with idiots
says...
11:22am Mon 8 Oct 12
Omnishambles_1
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11:29am Mon 8 Oct 12
fascinator wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment! This is what being part a community is all about!
Like some others here - I'm interested on what the council wants to spend the money on - as long as it goes towards helping to maintain our services, or even improve them, as long as it helps those genuinely unable to help themselves or make ends meet, i dont mind paying a bit extra.
Plantpot
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11:35am Mon 8 Oct 12
Fight_Back
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11:49am Mon 8 Oct 12
fascinator wrote:A very honourable attitude but what about those of us that have had pay freezes or even cuts over the last four years yet faced ever increasing costs for gas, electric, food and petrol ? We don't get any handouts from the council and try extremely hard to balance our budgets yet the Greens seem keen to push us over the edge. If it wasn't for the ridiculously high costs of running a referendum I'd say bring it on. The Greens would get slaughtered.
Like some others here - I'm interested on what the council wants to spend the money on - as long as it goes towards helping to maintain our services, or even improve them, as long as it helps those genuinely unable to help themselves or make ends meet, i dont mind paying a bit extra.
clarkebrighton
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11:51am Mon 8 Oct 12
Many Green Supporters are Students &
don't have to Pay Council Tax.
Plantpot
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12:08pm Mon 8 Oct 12
clarkebrighton wrote:I wouldn't be so sure. There is so much apathy towards politics that it doesn't take much for people to get in these days. Remember the Greens are in charge with only something like 13% of the total electorate voting for them. The vast majority of people didn't turn out. Unless the traditional opposition parties get people out voting, it could happen all over again.
The GREENS will NOT be in Power after the Next Local Elections thank God.
Many Green Supporters are Students &
don't have to Pay Council Tax.
Lady Smith
says...
12:49pm Mon 8 Oct 12
linnig wrote:A great suggestion! What a pity we can't tax the buggers for cycling on the pavements, too...
Why cant cyclists contribute towards the cost of cycle lanes? £10 a year for their 'tax' would bring in a few quid and help towards the cost of running this city.
Metro Reader
says...
12:58pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Are they taking hallucinogenic drugs? I can imagine it now " - how can we get in the news, let’s spend money that we don’t have, on a referendum (that we can fix later to get the result we want) to see who we can spend even more money we don’t have"
If they Stopped digging up roads and putting in 24 hour bus and cycle lanes that we not needed they would have money for essential services.
Says a lot about the whole lot of B&H councillors when a minority party is in control.
PorkBoat
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1:07pm Mon 8 Oct 12
gmgc81
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1:26pm Mon 8 Oct 12
As for the Greens, they really don't know how to arrange an inebriation at a brewery, do they?
Fight_Back
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1:30pm Mon 8 Oct 12
gmgc81 wrote:So you don't think asking the council tax payers to approve excessive rises is a good idea then ? Joy !!!! Using that logic the Greens could have attempted to force through 5-7% rises every year they were in power.
The Tories AND the Greens are idiots. The Tories for coming up with the stupid idea of a referendum. What a waste of money. Then again I'd expect nothing less from George Osborne: the Chancellor who claimed he'd cut the deficit yet he and his party are causing it to go up.
As for the Greens, they really don't know how to arrange an inebriation at a brewery, do they?
ripmaxman
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1:41pm Mon 8 Oct 12
What other things have they wasted our money on?
Have a break get rid of Kitcat
funkyyoyo
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1:44pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
1:45pm Mon 8 Oct 12
We, the people, have to approve the budget. Very American!
Fight_Back
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1:52pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:Agreed - although I think the 2% threshold is a little low - it should be set at the average RPI or CPI rate for the prevailing 12 months. That way it will highlight councils that aren't any good at entering contracts with their suppliers.
You make a good point Fight_Back. If a referendum is automatically triggered for an above 2% rise it does mean that whoever's in charge (especially with the safety of an election a few years away) they do have to think twice before airly announcing that Council Tax will go up by 7, 8, 9% in order to 'protect essential services and honour manifesto pledges'. Instead they have to balance our natural desire to want lots of services with our natural desire not to want to pay for them.
We, the people, have to approve the budget. Very American!
Morpheus
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1:59pm Mon 8 Oct 12
pwlr1966 wrote:A council saving the money they take from us. How ridiculous.
Set the rise to 2% and save us all the cost of a referendum, it's not rocket science!
rolivan
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3:09pm Mon 8 Oct 12
bloggs551
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3:12pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
3:12pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Sadly, until they can demonstrate that they will spend the money on front line services such as children and the elderly and disabled, instead of frittering money away on vanity schemes, I will not support an increase.
I honestly don't know how some of these councillors live with their consciences taking money from the EU to install a cycle lane when the Greeks cannot get enough money to pay for treatment in their hospitals.
It's shocking, and then we get some councillors from the same party saying their are Christian.
Well I haven't seen a more unChristian lot since the Tories came to power.
I prefer to support charities than entrust a rise in council tax to these selfish crackpots.
bloggs551
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3:12pm Mon 8 Oct 12
charlie smirke
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3:53pm Mon 8 Oct 12
F in L
says...
4:52pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Omnishambles_1 wrote:We are not building special Wheelchair Lanes or Hippy Pathways yet, but when we do `i am with you 100 percent
linnig wrote:What are you talking about? I'm assuming that was just a joke?
Why cant cyclists contribute towards the cost of cycle lanes? £10 a year for their 'tax' would bring in a few quid and help towards the cost of running this city.
While we're at it let's implement a tax on the disabled community, their electronic wheel chairs are eating up the pavement gravel like fat pat on new years; this is actually more likely to happen because of course you actually have to actually register to be deemed a disabled person. Unlike all those hippie cyclists just roaming around carefree - let's tax them as well! (?)
alyn, southwick
says...
4:57pm Mon 8 Oct 12
rolivan wrote:Perhaps it might be better to know why they are exempt - its not just students who are exempt. others are too, such as:
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
* armed forces accommodation
* annexes such as a garden flat if it is lived in by the children of the main home's owner
* homes where the owner has died are exempt for up to six months after probate is granted (your legal right to sell the home)
* people with learning difficulties.
I suspect you may wish people who are exempt to actually pay - do you want any of these groups to pay?
(By the way many people with Learning difficulties are also having their care cut.)
linnig
says...
5:17pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Omnishambles_1 wrote:Omnishambles_1 Are you crazy?? Disabled people don't ride cycles! Why should my £330 road tax go towards building cycle lanes? (there's a massive on the A27 never seen anyone on it) While im at it, why should landlords who buy to rent (to students) be exempt from paying? They are turning over a pretty good profit...make em pay...
linnig wrote:What are you talking about? I'm assuming that was just a joke?
Why cant cyclists contribute towards the cost of cycle lanes? £10 a year for their 'tax' would bring in a few quid and help towards the cost of running this city.
While we're at it let's implement a tax on the disabled community, their electronic wheel chairs are eating up the pavement gravel like fat pat on new years; this is actually more likely to happen because of course you actually have to actually register to be deemed a disabled person. Unlike all those hippie cyclists just roaming around carefree - let's tax them as well! (?)
rolivan
says...
5:53pm Mon 8 Oct 12
alyn, southwick wrote:No just those that are profiting i.e.Buy to Let Property Owners.
rolivan wrote:Perhaps it might be better to know why they are exempt - its not just students who are exempt. others are too, such as:
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
* armed forces accommodation
* annexes such as a garden flat if it is lived in by the children of the main home's owner
* homes where the owner has died are exempt for up to six months after probate is granted (your legal right to sell the home)
* people with learning difficulties.
I suspect you may wish people who are exempt to actually pay - do you want any of these groups to pay?
(By the way many people with Learning difficulties are also having their care cut.)
alyn, southwick
says...
5:59pm Mon 8 Oct 12
rolivan wrote:the owners don't pay the occupants do - so tax is paid on "Buy to let" properties, There is no exemption per se for "buy to let" properties, there would have to be some other criteria for it to gain exemption.
alyn, southwick wrote:No just those that are profiting i.e.Buy to Let Property Owners.
rolivan wrote:Perhaps it might be better to know why they are exempt - its not just students who are exempt. others are too, such as:
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
* armed forces accommodation
* annexes such as a garden flat if it is lived in by the children of the main home's owner
* homes where the owner has died are exempt for up to six months after probate is granted (your legal right to sell the home)
* people with learning difficulties.
I suspect you may wish people who are exempt to actually pay - do you want any of these groups to pay?
(By the way many people with Learning difficulties are also having their care cut.)
Fight_Back
says...
6:28pm Mon 8 Oct 12
rolivan wrote:Errrr ..... landlords have to pay the Council Tax when their properties are empty and the tenants pay it when the property is let. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant though !
alyn, southwick wrote:No just those that are profiting i.e.Buy to Let Property Owners.
rolivan wrote:Perhaps it might be better to know why they are exempt - its not just students who are exempt. others are too, such as:
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
* armed forces accommodation
* annexes such as a garden flat if it is lived in by the children of the main home's owner
* homes where the owner has died are exempt for up to six months after probate is granted (your legal right to sell the home)
* people with learning difficulties.
I suspect you may wish people who are exempt to actually pay - do you want any of these groups to pay?
(By the way many people with Learning difficulties are also having their care cut.)
rolivan
says...
7:08pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Fight_Back wrote:Not if they are Students and how many Students live in Brighton and Hove?
rolivan wrote:Errrr ..... landlords have to pay the Council Tax when their properties are empty and the tenants pay it when the property is let. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant though !
alyn, southwick wrote:No just those that are profiting i.e.Buy to Let Property Owners.
rolivan wrote:Perhaps it might be better to know why they are exempt - its not just students who are exempt. others are too, such as:
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
* armed forces accommodation
* annexes such as a garden flat if it is lived in by the children of the main home's owner
* homes where the owner has died are exempt for up to six months after probate is granted (your legal right to sell the home)
* people with learning difficulties.
I suspect you may wish people who are exempt to actually pay - do you want any of these groups to pay?
(By the way many people with Learning difficulties are also having their care cut.)
george smith
says...
9:12pm Mon 8 Oct 12
Idontbelieveit1948
says...
9:23pm Mon 8 Oct 12
gmgc81 wrote:Ok Labour supporter what about Prudence Brown and (Load of) Balls I suppose they are entirely innocent of financial idiocy in your book. If it wasn't for them and their ilk we wouldn't have many of the issues currently faced. Yes Labour are idiots of the highest order.
The Tories AND the Greens are idiots. The Tories for coming up with the stupid idea of a referendum. What a waste of money. Then again I'd expect nothing less from George Osborne: the Chancellor who claimed he'd cut the deficit yet he and his party are causing it to go up.
As for the Greens, they really don't know how to arrange an inebriation at a brewery, do they?
However, I do agree the Greens are hugely incompetent and have no real idea of how to run the city other than to rob the citizens of yet more money all the time.
Dealing with idiots
says...
2:35pm Tue 9 Oct 12
rolivan wrote:Do a freedom of information question. It is free just email the council.
I would like to know how many properties in Brighton and Hove are Council Tax exempt?
PorkBoat
says...
2:50pm Tue 9 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:You'll be shocked and probably disturbed to find out I actually agree with you.
The answer is no because we don't trust this council.
Sadly, until they can demonstrate that they will spend the money on front line services such as children and the elderly and disabled, instead of frittering money away on vanity schemes, I will not support an increase.
I honestly don't know how some of these councillors live with their consciences taking money from the EU to install a cycle lane when the Greeks cannot get enough money to pay for treatment in their hospitals.
It's shocking, and then we get some councillors from the same party saying their are Christian.
Well I haven't seen a more unChristian lot since the Tories came to power.
I prefer to support charities than entrust a rise in council tax to these selfish crackpots.
Mark63
says...
4:49pm Wed 10 Oct 12
Lady Smith wrote:Well said! Car drivers are taxed and taxed again - cyclists get free million pound lanes, free parking and the freedom to cycle just about anywhere as erratically as they like... A tax on cyclists may make them more responsible...
linnig wrote:A great suggestion! What a pity we can't tax the buggers for cycling on the pavements, too...
Why cant cyclists contribute towards the cost of cycle lanes? £10 a year for their 'tax' would bring in a few quid and help towards the cost of running this city.
F in L says...
9:42am Mon 8 Oct 12