Jewish community angered as MP backs anti-Israel protest (From The Argus)

Would anybody expect anything less from Caroline 'Brussels' Lucas and her bunch of Green Marxist loons?

Thank God they'll be gone soon....

As soon as I saw the headline I guessed which MP it was. Funny that

wow- Jewish people moaning about something - who'd have thought it!!
Israel has plenty of support (rightly or wrongly) from the world's biggest police force (the godamn USA) - can't they just leave it at that?

Here we go again...

As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played...

It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism!

If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

sbiscorrupt wrote:
Here we go again... As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played... It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism! If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

You beat me to it. Totally agree with your comment.

sbiscorrupt wrote:
Here we go again...

As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played...

It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism!

If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

Agreed!

spa301 wrote:

sbiscorrupt wrote:
Here we go again... As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played... It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism! If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

You beat me to it. Totally agree with your comment.

and me

How about a word from Lucas on the crimes agaist humanitw committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa.

Or Lucas condemns the rockets fired from gaza at Israeli civilians, 20,000 + to date. In an example last year an anti-tank miisile was delibareatly fired at a school bus killing a 15 year old school boy.

The Palestinians want to create into the see. Iran on the other hand has the stated intention os wipping Israel of the map.

However Israel can defend itself, & it has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Lucas should think about Syria Assad has killed 50,000 + of his own people this year. What about supporting a boycott of Syrian shops Lucas ?

Funny thing is, if you look in back issues of the Argus from November 1917 you will see a story very similar.

It is about Arthur Balfour (an MP) issuing a declaration of support for the establishment of a homeland for Jews in Palestine and causing massive outrage among the residents of Palestine. But they could never have guessed what would come about over the next 100 years.

Nothing ever changes...

'How about a word from Lucas on the crimes agaist humanitw committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa'

And the fact that the UN are constantly castigating Hamas for the way that gays and lesbians are treated; gay men are frequently thrown off the top off tall buildings by Hamas members, and lesbians are gang-raped and then set on fire.

And don't forget how Palestinians routinely persecute Christians, burn down church's and desecrate Christian cemeteries.

Of course, all the 'useful idiots' in the pro-Palestinian groups go VERY quiet when reminded how Palestinians persecute gays, lesbians and Christians.

It's a very clear issue - shoppers have the right to know where their consumer goods come from to choose whether or not to buy them.Israel should move its factories out of the illegal settlements. Sodastream's website admits that the Israeli government gives them financial incentives to set up factories in the illegal settlements , so if they moved out, they would lose all their tax breaks.

Do reply to the above - It would be good to have some informed comments on the facts of the case instead of the ignorant low-level abuse which passes as debate on this site

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:
'How about a word from Lucas on the crimes agaist humanitw committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa'

And the fact that the UN are constantly castigating Hamas for the way that gays and lesbians are treated; gay men are frequently thrown off the top off tall buildings by Hamas members, and lesbians are gang-raped and then set on fire.

And don't forget how Palestinians routinely persecute Christians, burn down church's and desecrate Christian cemeteries.

Of course, all the 'useful idiots' in the pro-Palestinian groups go VERY quiet when reminded how Palestinians persecute gays, lesbians and Christians.

http://failedmessiah
.typepad.com/failed_
messiahcom/2012/10/c
hurch-defaced-with-a
nti-christian-pro-se
ttler-graffiti-345.h
tml

sbiscorrupt wrote:
Here we go again...

As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played...

It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism!

If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

Agree with your comment too.

No point discussing the issue here as the usual pro-apartheid apologist cut-and-pasters will be here soon.

brassband wrote:
Do reply to the above - It would be good to have some informed comments on the facts of the case instead of the ignorant low-level abuse which passes as debate on this site

I think you're mistaking this site for a debate forum.

It would be useful if the Jewish community could look at the reasons for the protest as opposed to the normal knee jerk anti semetic/zionist reaction etc. Perhaps they would like to justify why this factory has been built where it is contrary to UN resolutions in an area where the Palestinians are subjected to daily suppression enforced by the Israeli military.

Brought to you by the party that hates Jews, Christians and Motorists. Any others to add to the list?

Bob_The_Ferret wrote:
Brought to you by the party that hates Jews, Christians and Motorists. Any others to add to the list?

I would imagine that many people of the Jewish and Christian and other faiths and no faiths and many people who are also motorists feel uneasy about the ongoing situation in the illegally settled areas. I am sure that they are also concerned about the actions of Hamas, the Assad regime in Syria etc as to be against one is not mutually exclusive.

Amazing how upset you get by the introduction of a few cycle paths.

Bob_The_Ferret wrote:
Brought to you by the party that hates Jews, Christians and Motorists. Any others to add to the list?

I would imagine that many people of the Jewish and Christian and other faiths and no faiths and many people who are also motorists feel uneasy about the ongoing situation in the illegally settled areas. I am sure that they are also concerned about the actions of Hamas, the Assad regime in Syria etc as to be against one is not mutually exclusive.

Amazing how upset you get by the introduction of a few cycle paths.

Leave the Greens out of the equation, they are irrelevant.
Jewish war crimes are always in the news.
Every week, somewhere there is a march in favour of the right of individuals or organisations to kill the Jews.
After thousands of years is it not time to STOP.

Israeli Jews are accused of being prickly and perhaps that is true. But the reason is because we are surrounded by countries that would like nothing better than to wipe us off the face of the earth. The genocide against our people perpetuated by Stalin and Hitler is still fresh in the memory of our living relatives. It's very easy to sit in a safe european home and cast judgement. But do that when you have been subjected to a sustained bout of ethnic cleansing before commenting on our situation.

I don't need to mention it as it is inevitable that the Anti-Semites will do that. That is war my friend. When a people is under attack they will do things that you and I would agree is not preferable in a free world. As I say, it is easy for you to judge in your safe european home. I wonder if you would live up to your name of 'Fight Back' if your people or family were ever under pressure. Would you plant your flag in the ground and take a stand or would melt like a soft european ****?

General Dreedle wrote:
I don't need to mention it as it is inevitable that the Anti-Semites will do that. That is war my friend. When a people is under attack they will do things that you and I would agree is not preferable in a free world. As I say, it is easy for you to judge in your safe european home. I wonder if you would live up to your name of 'Fight Back' if your people or family were ever under pressure. Would you plant your flag in the ground and take a stand or would melt like a soft european ****?

Argus filter has censored the word for Mrs Slocombe's pet.

This utterly odious women (though her true gender is dubious) should step down with immediate effect.

She is an insult to all those who have died for this country.

Nathan_Adler wrote:
This utterly odious women (though her true gender is dubious) should step down with immediate effect.

She is an insult to all those who have died for this country.

"This utterly odious women"

Oh dear Freudian slip? I think you meant woman or maybe you didn't.

Are you suggesting that "those who died for this country" would approve of ethnic cleansing, occupation and Apartheid?

Nemeth wrote:
Are you suggesting that "those who died for this country" would approve of ethnic cleansing, occupation and Apartheid?

I think he is and presumably he's not including the British forces in Palestine who "died for this country".

Well I'm unequivocally on the side of the Palestinians so I say well done Caroline!

Signed

One Green-hating Labour voter who might well be tempted to vote Ms Lucas as a personal vote.

I would indeed fight back BUT I would only do so if I was in the right. Israel is not. Firstly Palestine was carved up against Palestinian wishes all in the name of the rest of the world feeling guilty and a book of fairy tales. Even then Israel has stolen lands that weren't gifted to them in the original carve up. Give back the illegally occupied lands and THEN Israel may have a case for fighting back against the attacks - until then I have zero sympathy with the plight of Israel while they act like a terrorist state.

The following Arab countries have a far worse human rights record then Israel -

1) Egypt
2) Algeria
3) Morocco
4) Iraq
5) Sudan
6) Saudi Arabia
7) Yemen
8) SYRIA
9) Tunisia
10) Somalia
11) United Arab Emirates
12) Libya
13) Jordan
14) Lebanon
15) Gaza
16 ) Mautitania
17) Oman
18) Kuwait
19) Qatar
20) Bahrain
21) Djibouti
22) Comoros
23 Iran. ( Not Arab, but stated aim to remove Israel from map ).

I will support Lucas when she calls for a boycott of these countries, who do not givetheir citizerns equal rights.

General Dreedle wrote:
I don't need to mention it as it is inevitable that the Anti-Semites will do that. That is war my friend. When a people is under attack they will do things that you and I would agree is not preferable in a free world. As I say, it is easy for you to judge in your safe european home. I wonder if you would live up to your name of 'Fight Back' if your people or family were ever under pressure. Would you plant your flag in the ground and take a stand or would melt like a soft european ****?

From what I recall it was the "soft europeans" who put paid to the Nazis after years of long hard struggle, so I suggest you keep your insults to yourself.
My next point is that you claim the right of self defence for yourself but deny that same right to the Palestinians, this at the heart of the hypocrisy that surrounds the supporters of Israel. If it is ok for you to "do things" that are "not preferable in a free world" why is not ok for the Palestinians to do the same?
Typical hypocrisy.
You also make the classic argument that anyone who criticises Israel is an anti-Semite, what a childish overused, factually vacuous argument, as other people have pointed out, criticising the blatant human rights abuses that Israel is responsible for does not make someone an anti semite and nor does it blind them to the shortcomings of other regimes in the area.
You also make the other classic argument that we are not allowed to criticise Israel because we have not suffered like the jews, hogwash, two wrongs dont make a right. For a race that has suffered historical persecution to use that persecution to justify their oppression of another race is morally wrong. You do not get a free pass because of the holocaust to deny a race of people a homeland. Israel changed a long time ago from being the bullied to being the bully and that is why support for Israel in this country is dropping and that drop in support is why Israels supporters have renewed their efforts to smear anyone who criticises Israel as either racist, anti semitic or not able to understand the situation, wrong wrong and wrong.

Is'nt it wonderful when we see the far right - jhunty, agree with the far left -gazscott, in there common wish to damage & destroy Israel.
What great bedfellows.

hursthill wrote:
The following Arab countries have a far worse human rights record then Israel -

1) Egypt
2) Algeria
3) Morocco
4) Iraq
5) Sudan
6) Saudi Arabia
7) Yemen
8) SYRIA
9) Tunisia
10) Somalia
11) United Arab Emirates
12) Libya
13) Jordan
14) Lebanon
15) Gaza
16 ) Mautitania
17) Oman
18) Kuwait
19) Qatar
20) Bahrain
21) Djibouti
22) Comoros
23 Iran. ( Not Arab, but stated aim to remove Israel from map ).

I will support Lucas when she calls for a boycott of these countries, who do not givetheir citizerns equal rights.

Care to detail how you measure a "human rights record" ? I'd suggest that Israeli snipers purposely shooting children should mean Israel is in your list.

hursthill wrote:
Is'nt it wonderful when we see the far right - jhunty, agree with the far left -gazscott, in there common wish to damage & destroy Israel.
What great bedfellows.

He's given a good reason for his belief that Israel is a bully - something I agree with him on wholeheartedly.

Squabbles aside I don't know JHunty's absolute political orientation but the fact is that the views that he has expressed aren't those of extremists but a view that is becoming more common amongst the wider population as more and more people understand the reality of what Israel is doing especially in the settlements. It's a matter of morality and the consistent application of International Law not Left-Right politics.

So much for Caroline Lucas claims that she is simply standing up for freedom of political expression .
Here she is taking part in a Boycott of Israel event on the River Thames

http://londonbds.org
/2011/06/30/thames-b
oat-hails-gaza-floti
lla/

Her statement conceals the fact that she is an avid supporter and an activist for the campaign to delegitimise Israel
She knows full well that the BDS are against a two state solution and demand a single Palestinian state from
' River to the Sea ' . She only has to look at the PSC logo to see that .
As for her Green Credentials , they seem to stop well short of what we would expect of the UKs first Green MP .
She is not being open and transparent regarding her allegiance with the Boycott movement .

harvela wrote:
So much for Caroline Lucas claims that she is simply standing up for freedom of political expression .
Here she is taking part in a Boycott of Israel event on the River Thames

http://londonbds.org

/2011/06/30/thames-b

oat-hails-gaza-floti

lla/

Her statement conceals the fact that she is an avid supporter and an activist for the campaign to delegitimise Israel
She knows full well that the BDS are against a two state solution and demand a single Palestinian state from
' River to the Sea ' . She only has to look at the PSC logo to see that .
As for her Green Credentials , they seem to stop well short of what we would expect of the UKs first Green MP .
She is not being open and transparent regarding her allegiance with the Boycott movement .

I don't think she has ever tried to hide her views on the Palestine issue. None of us are terribly happy about the fact that the workers in the shop will lose their jobs when the shop inevitably closes down due to lack of trade and neither is she.

The shop workers also might want to think about how supporting an apartheid regime might look on their CV to an employer who understands the issues. Doing the right thing and finding a new job now would be a wise move for them.

But the fact is that it the Government of the party of Mike Weatherley who are showing a total lack of concern for the thousands of jobs being lost up and down the country due to ideology, vested interests and incompetence.

I look forward to Mike Weatherley being so outspoken about other businesses being shut down due to his Government.

hursthill wrote:
How about a word from Lucas on the crimes agaist humanitw committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa.

Or Lucas condemns the rockets fired from gaza at Israeli civilians, 20,000 + to date. In an example last year an anti-tank miisile was delibareatly fired at a school bus killing a 15 year old school boy.

The Palestinians want to create into the see. Iran on the other hand has the stated intention os wipping Israel of the map.

However Israel can defend itself, & it has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Lucas should think about Syria Assad has killed 50,000 + of his own people this year. What about supporting a boycott of Syrian shops Lucas ?

Most fair minded and decent people would agree with Hursthill's comments above.

Ms Lucas is a well known supporter of Palestinian and a strong critic of Israel. Is she balanced or is she bigoted ?

Well she makes a lot of comments about Israel but rarely mentions anything about human rights in China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, Russia, N Korea, various African states and about 25 other countries i could mention.

Considering Israel has to deal daily with the likes of Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc I think its human rights record is actually very good, when you consider it is actively having to defend its citizens from attack on a daily basis.

The boycott of Israel organisation like many of these types of organisations have tenious links to various unsavoury people and extremist groups and do not support a two state solution but want to wipe Israel of the map.

Interestingly recent polls suggest a majority of the Arabs living in Israel would rather stay living in Israel despite the difficulties than live in any of the neighbouring Arab countries because Israel's human rights are much better.

Ms Lucas is an educated woman, so she must be aware of this. The only conclusion i can draw is in my view she is deeply bigoted.

juleshove wrote:

hursthill wrote:
How about a word from Lucas on the crimes agaist humanitw committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa.

Or Lucas condemns the rockets fired from gaza at Israeli civilians, 20,000 + to date. In an example last year an anti-tank miisile was delibareatly fired at a school bus killing a 15 year old school boy.

The Palestinians want to create into the see. Iran on the other hand has the stated intention os wipping Israel of the map.

However Israel can defend itself, & it has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Lucas should think about Syria Assad has killed 50,000 + of his own people this year. What about supporting a boycott of Syrian shops Lucas ?

Most fair minded and decent people would agree with Hursthill's comments above.

Ms Lucas is a well known supporter of Palestinian and a strong critic of Israel. Is she balanced or is she bigoted ?

Well she makes a lot of comments about Israel but rarely mentions anything about human rights in China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, Russia, N Korea, various African states and about 25 other countries i could mention.

Considering Israel has to deal daily with the likes of Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc I think its human rights record is actually very good, when you consider it is actively having to defend its citizens from attack on a daily basis.

The boycott of Israel organisation like many of these types of organisations have tenious links to various unsavoury people and extremist groups and do not support a two state solution but want to wipe Israel of the map.

Interestingly recent polls suggest a majority of the Arabs living in Israel would rather stay living in Israel despite the difficulties than live in any of the neighbouring Arab countries because Israel's human rights are much better.

Ms Lucas is an educated woman, so she must be aware of this. The only conclusion i can draw is in my view she is deeply bigoted.

This shop sells goods made in the settlements. The lives of Palestinians in the West Bank (and Gaza) are made unbearable by Israel - an occupying power. The settlements and the settlers, many of whom are religious fundamentalists backed by the military and state incentives, make their lives worse.

The UN, International Court of Justice and international community consider the settlements to be illegal.

These goods should not be sold in Brighton.

How about a word from Ms Lucas on the crimes against humanity committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa'

And the fact that the UN are constantly castigating Hamas for the way that gays and lesbians are treated; gay men are frequently thrown off the top off tall buildings by Hamas members, and lesbians are gang-raped and then set on fire.

And don't forget how Palestinians routinely persecute Christians, burn down church's and desecrate Christian cemeteries.

Of course, all the 'Useless Idiots' in the pro-Palestinian groups go VERY quiet when reminded how Palestinians persecute gays, lesbians and Christians. Wonder why.

Less of the copy and paste please. Can you provide links to support these claims. Also what do you think of the desecration of Christian churches by the Settlers?

You don't provide a link to the poll you quoted earlier but I think most people would elect to stay in the country they are born in whatever the difficulties. If I suddenly became a second class citizen in my own country I'd want to stay. Personally I'd also make the decision to fight those who made me a second class citizen.

juleshove wrote:
How about a word from Ms Lucas on the crimes against humanity committed by Palestinians, where Hamas routinely torture & execute Fatah prisoners & vice versa'

And the fact that the UN are constantly castigating Hamas for the way that gays and lesbians are treated; gay men are frequently thrown off the top off tall buildings by Hamas members, and lesbians are gang-raped and then set on fire.

And don't forget how Palestinians routinely persecute Christians, burn down church's and desecrate Christian cemeteries.

Of course, all the 'Useless Idiots' in the pro-Palestinian groups go VERY quiet when reminded how Palestinians persecute gays, lesbians and Christians. Wonder why.

What a stupid argument - so because Hamas is anti gay ( much like the Church of England here ) it justifies the war crimes of Israel ? I don't condone some of the things Hamas & co do but it's hardly surprising that they fire rockets into an occupying country. The problem is that Israeli Jews play on the holocaust ( which was horrific ) but now they use almost exactly the same tactics against the Palestinians. Maybe I've missed it but how does Hamas persecuting gay people justify Israel illegally occupying land that isn't theirs, shooting women and children and using banned weapons ? Give the illegally held lands back and then Israel might have a case but unfortunately Israelis are too stupid to realise this.

Congratulations to all the commentators here who have fallen into the anti/pro Israel trap...lol

That's exactly what in this instance the 'believers of Israel' was hoping would happen...

Because it then dilutes the issue at hand, and becomes a 'tit for tat' brawl...

If Israel is abusing the palestinians, it should be highlighted...

In the same way as abuses towards Israel should be acknowledged..

This playground mentality only ensures that nothing will ever change!

BDS, at its heart, is a tool designed to win a propaganda war, not help bring a real peace. It is a blunt weapon of ideological hostility, not human empathy and engagement. It is neither a genuine response to the suffering endured by both peoples nor a program designed to address effectively the complex challenge of improving their lot.

Focusing on BDS in any form weakens other, constructive forms of engagement and action that seek to bring Israelis and Palestinians together. Choosing even partial BDS as policy promotes a vision which undermines the principles of engagement, tolerance, dialogue and coexistence and makes it more difficult to establish trust, mutual awareness and compromise.

http://youtu.be/j7Mu
poo1At8

http://youtu.be/_ZY8
m0cm1oY

Serendiptiyblue19 wrote:
BDS, at its heart, is a tool designed to win a propaganda war, not help bring a real peace. It is a blunt weapon of ideological hostility, not human empathy and engagement. It is neither a genuine response to the suffering endured by both peoples nor a program designed to address effectively the complex challenge of improving their lot.

Focusing on BDS in any form weakens other, constructive forms of engagement and action that seek to bring Israelis and Palestinians together. Choosing even partial BDS as policy promotes a vision which undermines the principles of engagement, tolerance, dialogue and coexistence and makes it more difficult to establish trust, mutual awareness and compromise.

How exactly do drones, assassinations, F-16s, checkpoints, illegal settlements, etc, etc strengthen constructive engagement?

Gaz Scott
As regards so called Israeli apartheid , unfortunately you have bought into the usual tired old Marxist Agit prop . Instead of regurgitating the lies disseminated by those who work tirelessly for the dismantlement of the Middle East s only democracy , I suggest you take a visit and see with your own eyes the sheer absurdity of your comment .

If you want to talk apartheid , check with the Egyptian Copts who when not being burnt alive in their own churches are steadily going the same way as the once thriving Jewish community .

Closer to home , Abbas has repeatedly stated a Palestinian state will be Jew free . Same with Jordan . No Jews Christians in Saudi Arabia . It's an endless litany of apartheid and you choose the one nation where there is none and equality is enshrined in the constitution .
Lies travel half way round the world before the truth has time to get out of bed . So it is with the BDS and their fascist supporters .
Start to use your own powers of observation before making fatuous comments . It's your only path to enlightenment .

Bob_The_Ferret wrote:
Brought to you by the party that hates Jews, Christians and Motorists. Any others to add to the list?

Just call them CYCLISTS it covers everything.

It is not just a large section of the Jewish community that is angered by the so-called boycotting of Ecostream, but many others like myself are fed up with the disproportionate criticism that Israel receives...much of it unfair, unjust mis-informed and build on a foundation of lies and half truths.

The BDS attempt to pressure Israel politically and economically, and by supporting sanctions against them are by default siding with the enemies of the State of Israel, who have no sense of responsibility towards the welfare of the people under their hateful jurisdiction.

If you want to add your name to their petition outside the shop on Saturday, just remember that you are aligning yourself with Hamas and Fatah...but this fact is hidden under the veneer of human rights activism.

I would also commend anyone seriously interested in what is really going on to look at the biased record of the UN towards the nation of Israel, and weigh up if you really think any real justice can ever emanate from such an organization.

Ecostream employs 500 Palestinians on equal wages to their Israeli counterparts, and despite any concessions, pays its taxes to the Palestian Authority because it is in zone C of the disputed territories, and is complying with the agreements signed in partnership with the PA....it is not 'land-grabbing' or stealing local resources, in fact quite the opposite, and is trying to build bridges and help the local Arab population.

Another factor is the embedded antisemitism within the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign .
Just under a year ago Greenstein led a campaign to oust one such leading campaigner who just happened to be a Holocaust denying antisemite .
Well done Tony , only you failed to convince up to 20% of your members in a free vote . How many others would have voted the same way but for fear of the same fate is anyone's guess .
Now he's tilting at windmills over one Greta Berlin , another foul antisemite and leading organiser of free Gaza

A favoured tactic of the BDS is to attempt to shut down criticism of their cause by stating Zionists always play the anti Semite = antizionist card .

The fact is the card is played by themselves with dedicated antisemites able to conceal themselves within the organisation in order to connect with like minded racists .

Why are people getting so hot under the collar, about the group of protesters outside Sodastream every Saturday. They are a motley crew of weirdos who shout and protest in other parts of Brighton, and have done so for years irritating everyone who has the misfortune to walk past. Tony Greenstein, the guy who fronts them, has a blog and if you're silly enough to read it, which I once did, you will realise why they remain a very small group! The main gripe I have with these people, is their insistence on shouting at others what they should or should not do and do you know what? I don't like being told what to do. I have no interest in buying refillable goods from Sodastream or any other shop, but from now on I shall take great pleasure in giving them my custom. I wish them a long and happy stay in Brighton. Did I vote for Ms Lucas? Yes I did. Will I vote for her again? Not on your nellie. Another pet gripe of mine is someone who uses their position to preach international politics. Now if she were to use her clout to get Greensteins group off the streets, it would be a different matter.

Dabthirtyfive wrote:
Why are people getting so hot under the collar, about the group of protesters outside Sodastream every Saturday. They are a motley crew of weirdos who shout and protest in other parts of Brighton, and have done so for years irritating everyone who has the misfortune to walk past. Tony Greenstein, the guy who fronts them, has a blog and if you're silly enough to read it, which I once did, you will realise why they remain a very small group! The main gripe I have with these people, is their insistence on shouting at others what they should or should not do and do you know what? I don't like being told what to do. I have no interest in buying refillable goods from Sodastream or any other shop, but from now on I shall take great pleasure in giving them my custom. I wish them a long and happy stay in Brighton. Did I vote for Ms Lucas? Yes I did. Will I vote for her again? Not on your nellie. Another pet gripe of mine is someone who uses their position to preach international politics. Now if she were to use her clout to get Greensteins group off the streets, it would be a different matter.

Somebody else with more money than sense. Have you seen how expensive some of their stuff is for no more a bit of coloured plastic. Buy away. They need all the help they can get.

Hm - harvela talks about BDS and their fascist supporters.

Perhaps he didn't see the Zionist supporters of the Ahava shop in Covent garden cosying up to their allies the EDLduring demonstrations against that unlamented outlet for resources stolen from the Palestinians.

Maybe he doesn't remember the Israeli government supporting the vicious white regime in South Africa when the world was boycotting apartheid.

Maybe he doesn't know what apartheid is - I would back Desmond Tutu (who knows apartheid when he sees it) when he says that the way Israel treats the Palestinians is even worse that the apartheid suffered by black people in South Africa.

You don't need to spend long in Israel with your eyes open before you see apartheid in action - unless of course you're a Zionist

gaz scott wrote:

Dabthirtyfive wrote:
Why are people getting so hot under the collar, about the group of protesters outside Sodastream every Saturday. They are a motley crew of weirdos who shout and protest in other parts of Brighton, and have done so for years irritating everyone who has the misfortune to walk past. Tony Greenstein, the guy who fronts them, has a blog and if you're silly enough to read it, which I once did, you will realise why they remain a very small group! The main gripe I have with these people, is their insistence on shouting at others what they should or should not do and do you know what? I don't like being told what to do. I have no interest in buying refillable goods from Sodastream or any other shop, but from now on I shall take great pleasure in giving them my custom. I wish them a long and happy stay in Brighton. Did I vote for Ms Lucas? Yes I did. Will I vote for her again? Not on your nellie. Another pet gripe of mine is someone who uses their position to preach international politics. Now if she were to use her clout to get Greensteins group off the streets, it would be a different matter.

Somebody else with more money than sense. Have you seen how expensive some of their stuff is for no more a bit of coloured plastic. Buy away. They need all the help they can get.

Well..in that case I shall buy enough to get a good discount.

So Ms Lucas said that as a supporter of the retail sector and green businesses, she didn’t want the store to close but said she thought it was right that local people are able to take a principled stand.

Seems to me that too many people are being upset by what Ms Lucas says when in actual fact, and as usual, she says nothing of any real substance. As a useless MP who is effectively happy to sit on the fence here, as shown in her statement quoted above, I can't really think why anyone takes any notice of her in the first place.

Dabthirtyfive wrote:

gaz scott wrote:

Dabthirtyfive wrote:
Why are people getting so hot under the collar, about the group of protesters outside Sodastream every Saturday. They are a motley crew of weirdos who shout and protest in other parts of Brighton, and have done so for years irritating everyone who has the misfortune to walk past. Tony Greenstein, the guy who fronts them, has a blog and if you're silly enough to read it, which I once did, you will realise why they remain a very small group! The main gripe I have with these people, is their insistence on shouting at others what they should or should not do and do you know what? I don't like being told what to do. I have no interest in buying refillable goods from Sodastream or any other shop, but from now on I shall take great pleasure in giving them my custom. I wish them a long and happy stay in Brighton. Did I vote for Ms Lucas? Yes I did. Will I vote for her again? Not on your nellie. Another pet gripe of mine is someone who uses their position to preach international politics. Now if she were to use her clout to get Greensteins group off the streets, it would be a different matter.

Somebody else with more money than sense. Have you seen how expensive some of their stuff is for no more a bit of coloured plastic. Buy away. They need all the help they can get.

Well..in that case I shall buy enough to get a good discount.

Just be careful! Too much of that ghastly syrup can rot your teeth.

'Choosing even partial BDS as policy promotes a vision which undermines the principles of engagement, tolerance, dialogue and coexistence and makes it more difficult to establish trust, mutual awareness and compromise.' says serendipity blue
People have turned to BDS against Israel because Israel has no principles of engagement, tolerance dialogue and coexistence - here is Ariel Sharon's statement of Israeli policy on illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank which holds true today:
“Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” – Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
Trust and compromise from Israel - you must be joking

Brass band
I assume you witnessed the Zionist supporters cosying up to EDL first hand and that again , you have witnessed so called ' Israeli Apartheid ' first hand . Or are you as i suspect simply buying into worthless second hand propaganda .
Don't believe everything you read especially when it comes from someone like Greenstein .

harvela wrote:
Brass band
I assume you witnessed the Zionist supporters cosying up to EDL first hand and that again , you have witnessed so called ' Israeli Apartheid ' first hand . Or are you as i suspect simply buying into worthless second hand propaganda .
Don't believe everything you read especially when it comes from someone like Greenstein .

So are you saying both those things are untrue? You don't make that terribly clear.

If Desmond Tutu says it, then it must be true!!!! I think the Palestinian Arabs have made convincing foreigners of their legitimate claims and persuading them how unjust the Israelis are, into an art form...they are very good at it...heck they even persuade some Jewish people to turn against everything that has been fought for to provide a safe-haven for Jews on a slivver of real-estate that has never ceased from being their legitimate homeland.

The word 'Zionist' is a good word, and means people who support/believe in Israel as the national homeland for the Jewish peope and Jerusalem as its capital. It does not equate with 'Nazi' which is how it is being hi-jacked by anti-Zionists...nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with apartheid or racism.

I will continue to support Ecostream on a Saturday, and happily hand out leaflets that try to give a far more truthful and balanced overview of what is really going on...because it is not really about Ecostream, it is about the Middle-East conflict and whether you will inadvertently side with murderous extremists.

The people of Brighton and Hove need to realise that the BDS are not fighting on their behalf nor do they care about your view-point unless you believe their biased propaganda that could easily have been penned by the brothers Grimm.

Goyboy wrote:
If Desmond Tutu says it, then it must be true!!!! I think the Palestinian Arabs have made convincing foreigners of their legitimate claims and persuading them how unjust the Israelis are, into an art form...they are very good at it...heck they even persuade some Jewish people to turn against everything that has been fought for to provide a safe-haven for Jews on a slivver of real-estate that has never ceased from being their legitimate homeland.

The word 'Zionist' is a good word, and means people who support/believe in Israel as the national homeland for the Jewish peope and Jerusalem as its capital. It does not equate with 'Nazi' which is how it is being hi-jacked by anti-Zionists...nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with apartheid or racism.

I will continue to support Ecostream on a Saturday, and happily hand out leaflets that try to give a far more truthful and balanced overview of what is really going on...because it is not really about Ecostream, it is about the Middle-East conflict and whether you will inadvertently side with murderous extremists.

The people of Brighton and Hove need to realise that the BDS are not fighting on their behalf nor do they care about your view-point unless you believe their biased propaganda that could easily have been penned by the brothers Grimm.

Totally agree

Goyboy wrote:
If Desmond Tutu says it, then it must be true!!!! I think the Palestinian Arabs have made convincing foreigners of their legitimate claims and persuading them how unjust the Israelis are, into an art form...they are very good at it...heck they even persuade some Jewish people to turn against everything that has been fought for to provide a safe-haven for Jews on a slivver of real-estate that has never ceased from being their legitimate homeland.

The word 'Zionist' is a good word, and means people who support/believe in Israel as the national homeland for the Jewish peope and Jerusalem as its capital. It does not equate with 'Nazi' which is how it is being hi-jacked by anti-Zionists...nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with apartheid or racism.

I will continue to support Ecostream on a Saturday, and happily hand out leaflets that try to give a far more truthful and balanced overview of what is really going on...because it is not really about Ecostream, it is about the Middle-East conflict and whether you will inadvertently side with murderous extremists.

The people of Brighton and Hove need to realise that the BDS are not fighting on their behalf nor do they care about your view-point unless you believe their biased propaganda that could easily have been penned by the brothers Grimm.

Well by being there you are helping to highlight to the people of Brighton where these goods come from and thankfully not everyone falls for your fairy stories.

And if it's not about the shop why has a regular PSC stall not been subject to such a concerted counter-campaign for the last 10 years? The occasional crazy (mostly Christian) Zionist yes but they seemed to operate in isolation rather than a pack as is currently the case.

Is there no end to the crazy utterings of this revolting woman?

Bob_The_Ferret says...
7:33pm Wed 10 Oct 12

Brought to you by the party that hates Jews, Christians and Motorists. Any others to add to the list?

Yes please Bob

1. People who work
2. People who wash

Thank you

Could it be the smell of the mad protesters, that send people running, screaming as they go, from Churchill Square on a Wednesday. If you suddenly get an overpowering whiff of perfume mixed with sweat, you'll know they've read this blog.

I thought the concept of this shop was just another annoying Green idea but hearing that the Greens actually hate it makes me tempted to buy a years worth of cleaning materials from here on Saturday. Anything Caroline Lucas doesn't like must be a good thing. Lets face it the greens have done nothing but damage to the city with their blinkered view on driving out tourists, visitors, workers and residents from the city.

A years worth!! We will both get a discount :-)

NickBrt wrote:
Is there no end to the crazy utterings of this revolting woman?

I believe gaz scott is male

Hopefully come the next election, the voters of Lucas's constituency will come out and vote - apathy allows strangeness to flourish.

Gaz Scott said...."And if it's not about the shop why has a regular PSC stall not been subject to such a concerted counter-campaign for the last 10 years? The occasional crazy (mostly Christian) Zionist yes but they seemed to operate in isolation rather than a pack as is currently the case.”

I think it is because some of us have been very slow to see what is happening across this country...the protest against Ecostream in Western Road has been a wake up call to many of us who are no longer prepared to sit on the side-lines and hope for the best, while many people in Brighton and Hove are being drip fed anti-Israeli Marxist poilicy as though it is the only sensible response.

I am glad to report that from what I have witnessed there are many people in Brighton and Hove who are prepared to consider the pros and the cons of the whole issue, and do not like having their minds made up for them by anyone...whether is is us who fully support Israel and the free-enterprise of this shop...or those who oppose the legitimacy of Israels borders and the legitimacy of the shop.

Of course it runs far deeper than this, but that is the issue in a nutshell.

Goyboy wrote:
Gaz Scott said...."And if it's not about the shop why has a regular PSC stall not been subject to such a concerted counter-campaign for the last 10 years? The occasional crazy (mostly Christian) Zionist yes but they seemed to operate in isolation rather than a pack as is currently the case.”

I think it is because some of us have been very slow to see what is happening across this country...the protest against Ecostream in Western Road has been a wake up call to many of us who are no longer prepared to sit on the side-lines and hope for the best, while many people in Brighton and Hove are being drip fed anti-Israeli Marxist poilicy as though it is the only sensible response.

I am glad to report that from what I have witnessed there are many people in Brighton and Hove who are prepared to consider the pros and the cons of the whole issue, and do not like having their minds made up for them by anyone...whether is is us who fully support Israel and the free-enterprise of this shop...or those who oppose the legitimacy of Israels borders and the legitimacy of the shop.

Of course it runs far deeper than this, but that is the issue in a nutshell.

Well I do hope you enjoyed your visit to Brighton this weekend.

http://www.arabnews.
com/arab-spring-and-
israeli-enemy

gaz scott wrote:

Goyboy wrote:
Gaz Scott said...."And if it's not about the shop why has a regular PSC stall not been subject to such a concerted counter-campaign for the last 10 years? The occasional crazy (mostly Christian) Zionist yes but they seemed to operate in isolation rather than a pack as is currently the case.”

I think it is because some of us have been very slow to see what is happening across this country...the protest against Ecostream in Western Road has been a wake up call to many of us who are no longer prepared to sit on the side-lines and hope for the best, while many people in Brighton and Hove are being drip fed anti-Israeli Marxist poilicy as though it is the only sensible response.

I am glad to report that from what I have witnessed there are many people in Brighton and Hove who are prepared to consider the pros and the cons of the whole issue, and do not like having their minds made up for them by anyone...whether is is us who fully support Israel and the free-enterprise of this shop...or those who oppose the legitimacy of Israels borders and the legitimacy of the shop.

Of course it runs far deeper than this, but that is the issue in a nutshell.

Well I do hope you enjoyed your visit to Brighton this weekend.

Lol...I don't rise to any sort of bait or get into bickering matches, but I will just say that you are fishing in the wrong pond laddie.

Why is it the Isrealis always try to make out they are so hard done by.
I am married to a Palestinian and his entire family have lived away from their homeland for over 50 years because Isreal will not let them back. I know many other families in the same situation.
Those still there live a life you cant believe.
Those defending Isreal keep bringing up the holocaust, yes we know it happened but that does not excuse what is has gone on with the Palestinians for many years. Hamas gets brought up, but if Isreal was not so wicked and cruel Hamas would not retaliate.
My father in law once told me the Isrealis stood 10 of his friends and himself in a line, they were all under the age of 14 and shot each one in the head for no reason one by one. When they reached my father in law, the soldier pointing the gun at his head suddenly noticed my father in laws watch which he liked, made him give it to him and let him go. That kind of thing, shooting to kill for fun because they are Palestinian is just as bad as what the Nazi's did.
I refuse to buy anything made in Isreal because their treatment of Palestinians is horrific.

Re comment above.
Please provide date & location of this incident.
Otherwise it is fair to conclude you are a liar.

The Lancet is not exactly known as a crazed group of radicals so interesting that they published this report (link below) only last week.

The page refers to their group (Lancet-Palestinian Health Alliance) as
"...a mechanism to hold all those who share responsibility for the state of Palestinian health accountable for their legal obligations and sometimes also their illegal acts and policies."

Please note that wording from the introduction carefully and also that they refer to "land under violent siege".

http://www.thelancet
.com/health-in-the-o
ccupied-palestinian-
territory-2012

workforaliving wrote:
Why is it the Isrealis always try to make out they are so hard done by.
I am married to a Palestinian and his entire family have lived away from their homeland for over 50 years because Isreal will not let them back. I know many other families in the same situation.
Those still there live a life you cant believe.
Those defending Isreal keep bringing up the holocaust, yes we know it happened but that does not excuse what is has gone on with the Palestinians for many years. Hamas gets brought up, but if Isreal was not so wicked and cruel Hamas would not retaliate.
My father in law once told me the Isrealis stood 10 of his friends and himself in a line, they were all under the age of 14 and shot each one in the head for no reason one by one. When they reached my father in law, the soldier pointing the gun at his head suddenly noticed my father in laws watch which he liked, made him give it to him and let him go. That kind of thing, shooting to kill for fun because they are Palestinian is just as bad as what the Nazi's did.
I refuse to buy anything made in Isreal because their treatment of Palestinians is horrific.

You know something if I believed every story about Israelis that I have heard from Palestinian sources they would appear to be the worst group of evil-doers that ever walked this planet.

Fortunately I have learnt for myself that these lies and exaggerations are just part of the way many in the Arab world try to shock Westerners into believing them....the vast majority are total fabrications, and many in the West are waking up to these tactics and actually checking things out for themselves.

People need to be reminded as well that the Qu'ran encourages lying, cheating, stealing and worse to all those who do not follow the path of Islam, and those that perpetrate these things upon infidels are actually commended for bringing the judgment of Allah upon them....it's called 'Taqiyyah', and is the principle of what they see as 'holy deception'.

Many people in the UK do not understand the level of deception used to influence them or why people lie to suit their own ends...and I think this is also true of many British people who have been led to believe Israel is just a vindictive bully who wants to steal land and use the resources of the down-trodden.

No one would doubt that the US is Israel's greatest supporter but the US State Department said this year:

"Obviously, we've seen the reports that an Israeli Government appointed panel has recommended legalizing dozens of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, but we do not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity and we oppose any effort to legalize settlement outposts”

These settlements are illegal and buying goods from them is at best complicity in illegality. Do not buy anything from EcoStream.

hursthill wrote:
Re comment above.
Please provide date & location of this incident.
Otherwise it is fair to conclude you are a liar.

Even if this lady did provide further details you'd find some reason to dispute then, that's the nature of Zionists. There are thousands of documented example of this type of behaviour by Zionists, including ethnic cleansing & terrorism, including against the British during the Mandate, but guess what, Zionists make excuses for each & every one of them, or like certain Israeli historians, actually think the Zionist didn't go far enough with their ethnic cleansing & war against the Palestinian people.

The real enemy here is religion, and the hate, bitterness and divisions it fosters.

The nature of Zionism has evolved since the late 1800's and no one would try to say that everything done in the name of Zionism has been right, or dismiss the fact that some groups that have represented the Zionist cause have at times done more harm than good....but I think that like Zionism itself, all of us in our own lives strive to learn from our mistakes and do better in the future.

Israel is the national homeland for the Jewish people, it has been theirs long before the name of Palestine was ever formulated... with Jerusalem as their undivided capital and no one since biblical days has ever claimed the land as their own...no race has ever turned it around from being desolate until the Jews returned and made it flourish throughout.

Zionists; whether secular or religious, believe it is the land of the Jewish people, a safe-haven and refuge...where those who want to live in peace with them are welcome...but do not be surprised or complain if those that oppose them every step of the way and desire nothing more than their ultimate destruction by whatever means is at their disposal ...reap the whirlwind.

The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

cancelaccount wrote:
The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestini
ans", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

If you are going to just copy and paste propaganda (IMO) from other sites you should at least inform us where they are sourced from.

gaz scott wrote:

cancelaccount wrote: The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestini ans", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians. The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!. The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews! The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

If you are going to just copy and paste propaganda (IMO) from other sites you should at least inform us where they are sourced from.

Oy Va voi Mr Scott so what if one cut and pasted a relevant article.. if it adds to a debate then, its all good isn't it?

you are a numbskull of the highest order!

Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

cancelaccount wrote:

gaz scott wrote:

cancelaccount wrote: The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestini ans", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians. The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!. The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews! The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

If you are going to just copy and paste propaganda (IMO) from other sites you should at least inform us where they are sourced from.

Oy Va voi Mr Scott so what if one cut and pasted a relevant article.. if it adds to a debate then, its all good isn't it?

you are a numbskull of the highest order!

There is nothing at all wrong with cutting and pasting anything you might feel adds to the debate but you should at least be honest enough to indicate its source or the fact that is not original. And replying with an insult says more about you than me.

SOURCE: ARABNEWS.COM
AUTHOR: ABDULATEEF AL-MULHIM
DATE: Saturday 6 October 2012

Thirty-nine years ago, on Oct. 6, 1973, the third major war between the Arabs and Israel broke out. The war lasted only 20 days. The two sides were engaged in two other major wars, in 1948 and 1967.

The 1967 War lasted only six days. But, these three wars were not the only Arab-Israel confrontations. From the period of 1948 and to this day many confrontations have taken place. Some of them were small clashes and many of them were full-scale battles, but there were no major wars apart from the ones mentioned above. The Arab-Israeli conflict is the most complicated conflict the world ever experienced. On the anniversary of the 1973 War between the Arab and the Israelis, many people in the Arab world are beginning to ask many questions about the past, present and the future with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The questions now are: What was the real cost of these wars to the Arab world and its people. And the harder question that no Arab national wants to ask is: What was the real cost for not recognizing Israel in 1948 and why didn’t the Arab states spend their assets on education, health care and the infrastructures instead of wars? But, the hardest question that no Arab national wants to hear is whether Israel is the real enemy of the Arab world and the Arab people.

I decided to write this article after I saw photos and reports about a starving child in Yemen, a burned ancient Aleppo souk in Syria, the under developed Sinai in Egypt, car bombs in Iraq and the destroyed buildings in Libya. The photos and the reports were shown on the Al-Arabiya network, which is the most watched and respected news outlet in the Middle East.

The common thing among all what I saw is that the destruction and the atrocities are not done by an outside enemy. The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries. So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?

The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.

These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars.

In the past, we have talked about why some Israeli soldiers attack and mistreat Palestinians. Also, we saw Israeli planes and tanks attack various Arab countries. But, do these attacks match the current atrocities being committed by some Arab states against their own people.

In Syria, the atrocities are beyond anybody’s imaginations? And, isn’t the Iraqis are the ones who are destroying their own country? Wasn’t it Tunisia’s dictator who was able to steal 13 billion dollars from the poor Tunisians? And how can a child starve in Yemen if their land is the most fertile land in the world? Why would Iraqi brains leave Iraq in a country that makes 110 billion dollars from oil export? Why do the Lebanese fail to govern one of the tiniest countries in the world? And what made the Arab states start sinking into chaos?

On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine. The war ended on March 10, 1949. It lasted for nine months, three weeks and two days. The Arabs lost the war and called this war Nakbah (catastrophic war). The Arabs gained nothing and thousands of Palestinians became refugees.
And on 1967, the Arabs led by Egypt under the rule of Gamal Abdul Nasser, went in war with Israel and lost more Palestinian land and made more Palestinian refugees who are now on the mercy of the countries that host them. The Arabs called this war Naksah (upset). The Arabs never admitted defeat in both wars and the Palestinian cause got more complicated. And now, with the never ending Arab Spring, the Arab world has no time for the Palestinians refugees or Palestinian cause, because many Arabs are refugees themselves and under constant attacks from their own forces. Syrians are leaving their own country, not because of the Israeli planes dropping bombs on them. It is the Syrian Air Force which is dropping the bombs. And now, Iraqi Arab Muslims, most intelligent brains, are leaving Iraq for the est. In Yemen, the world’s saddest human tragedy play is being written by the Yemenis. In Egypt, the people in Sinai are forgotten.

Finally, if many of the Arab states are in such disarray, then what happened to the Arabs’ sworn enemy (Israel)? Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don’t know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World. Wasn’t one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail is an Israeli-Palestinian?

The Arab Spring showed the world that the Palestinians are happier and in better situation than their Arab brothers who fought to liberate them from the Israelis. Now, it is time to stop the hatred and wars and start to create better living conditions for the future Arab generations.

workforaliving wrote:
Why is it the Isrealis always try to make out they are so hard done by.
I am married to a Palestinian and his entire family have lived away from their homeland for over 50 years because Isreal will not let them back. I know many other families in the same situation.
Those still there live a life you cant believe.
Those defending Isreal keep bringing up the holocaust, yes we know it happened but that does not excuse what is has gone on with the Palestinians for many years. Hamas gets brought up, but if Isreal was not so wicked and cruel Hamas would not retaliate.
My father in law once told me the Isrealis stood 10 of his friends and himself in a line, they were all under the age of 14 and shot each one in the head for no reason one by one. When they reached my father in law, the soldier pointing the gun at his head suddenly noticed my father in laws watch which he liked, made him give it to him and let him go. That kind of thing, shooting to kill for fun because they are Palestinian is just as bad as what the Nazi's did.
I refuse to buy anything made in Isreal because their treatment of Palestinians is horrific.

Taken straight from the Palestinian version of Grimms Fairy Stories. I'd heard of it's existence. Thanks for posting.. Don't think I'll bother to buy the book!

Goyboy wrote:
Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

I did pass the shop on Saturday, and for the first time, but it didn't feel particularly welcoming - too many Xtian Zionists were blocking the entrace!

Be interesting to know if they source any of their olive oil from Palestinian farmers, particularly as we hear about how Jewish settlers are forever uprooting/burning Palestinian olive groves.

workforaliving wrote:
Why is it the Isrealis always try to make out they are so hard done by.
I am married to a Palestinian and his entire family have lived away from their homeland for over 50 years because Isreal will not let them back. I know many other families in the same situation.
Those still there live a life you cant believe.
Those defending Isreal keep bringing up the holocaust, yes we know it happened but that does not excuse what is has gone on with the Palestinians for many years. Hamas gets brought up, but if Isreal was not so wicked and cruel Hamas would not retaliate.
My father in law once told me the Isrealis stood 10 of his friends and himself in a line, they were all under the age of 14 and shot each one in the head for no reason one by one. When they reached my father in law, the soldier pointing the gun at his head suddenly noticed my father in laws watch which he liked, made him give it to him and let him go. That kind of thing, shooting to kill for fun because they are Palestinian is just as bad as what the Nazi's did.
I refuse to buy anything made in Isreal because their treatment of Palestinians is horrific.

Sorry i dont believe that story. Thats not the way the Isreali army behaves.

Serendiptiyblue19 wrote:
SOURCE: ARABNEWS.COM
AUTHOR: ABDULATEEF AL-MULHIM
DATE: Saturday 6 October 2012

Thirty-nine years ago, on Oct. 6, 1973, the third major war between the Arabs and Israel broke out. The war lasted only 20 days. The two sides were engaged in two other major wars, in 1948 and 1967.

The 1967 War lasted only six days. But, these three wars were not the only Arab-Israel confrontations. From the period of 1948 and to this day many confrontations have taken place. Some of them were small clashes and many of them were full-scale battles, but there were no major wars apart from the ones mentioned above. The Arab-Israeli conflict is the most complicated conflict the world ever experienced. On the anniversary of the 1973 War between the Arab and the Israelis, many people in the Arab world are beginning to ask many questions about the past, present and the future with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The questions now are: What was the real cost of these wars to the Arab world and its people. And the harder question that no Arab national wants to ask is: What was the real cost for not recognizing Israel in 1948 and why didn’t the Arab states spend their assets on education, health care and the infrastructures instead of wars? But, the hardest question that no Arab national wants to hear is whether Israel is the real enemy of the Arab world and the Arab people.

I decided to write this article after I saw photos and reports about a starving child in Yemen, a burned ancient Aleppo souk in Syria, the under developed Sinai in Egypt, car bombs in Iraq and the destroyed buildings in Libya. The photos and the reports were shown on the Al-Arabiya network, which is the most watched and respected news outlet in the Middle East.

The common thing among all what I saw is that the destruction and the atrocities are not done by an outside enemy. The starvation, the killings and the destruction in these Arab countries are done by the same hands that are supposed to protect and build the unity of these countries and safeguard the people of these countries. So, the question now is that who is the real enemy of the Arab world?

The Arab world wasted hundreds of billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives fighting Israel, which they considered is their sworn enemy, an enemy whose existence they never recognized. The Arab world has many enemies and Israel should have been at the bottom of the list. The real enemies of the Arab world are corruption, lack of good education, lack of good health care, lack of freedom, lack of respect for the human lives and finally, the Arab world had many dictators who used the Arab-Israeli conflict to suppress their own people.

These dictators’ atrocities against their own people are far worse than all the full-scale Arab-Israeli wars.

In the past, we have talked about why some Israeli soldiers attack and mistreat Palestinians. Also, we saw Israeli planes and tanks attack various Arab countries. But, do these attacks match the current atrocities being committed by some Arab states against their own people.

In Syria, the atrocities are beyond anybody’s imaginations? And, isn’t the Iraqis are the ones who are destroying their own country? Wasn’t it Tunisia’s dictator who was able to steal 13 billion dollars from the poor Tunisians? And how can a child starve in Yemen if their land is the most fertile land in the world? Why would Iraqi brains leave Iraq in a country that makes 110 billion dollars from oil export? Why do the Lebanese fail to govern one of the tiniest countries in the world? And what made the Arab states start sinking into chaos?

On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine. The war ended on March 10, 1949. It lasted for nine months, three weeks and two days. The Arabs lost the war and called this war Nakbah (catastrophic war). The Arabs gained nothing and thousands of Palestinians became refugees.
And on 1967, the Arabs led by Egypt under the rule of Gamal Abdul Nasser, went in war with Israel and lost more Palestinian land and made more Palestinian refugees who are now on the mercy of the countries that host them. The Arabs called this war Naksah (upset). The Arabs never admitted defeat in both wars and the Palestinian cause got more complicated. And now, with the never ending Arab Spring, the Arab world has no time for the Palestinians refugees or Palestinian cause, because many Arabs are refugees themselves and under constant attacks from their own forces. Syrians are leaving their own country, not because of the Israeli planes dropping bombs on them. It is the Syrian Air Force which is dropping the bombs. And now, Iraqi Arab Muslims, most intelligent brains, are leaving Iraq for the est. In Yemen, the world’s saddest human tragedy play is being written by the Yemenis. In Egypt, the people in Sinai are forgotten.

Finally, if many of the Arab states are in such disarray, then what happened to the Arabs’ sworn enemy (Israel)? Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don’t know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World. Wasn’t one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail is an Israeli-Palestinian?

The Arab Spring showed the world that the Palestinians are happier and in better situation than their Arab brothers who fought to liberate them from the Israelis. Now, it is time to stop the hatred and wars and start to create better living conditions for the future Arab generations.

Totally agree.

Yawn................
....

I think when you open your curtains in the morning you will look out and see England. Some of the posters on this thread may even see Brighton.

Heathen Earth wrote:

Goyboy wrote:
Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

I did pass the shop on Saturday, and for the first time, but it didn't feel particularly welcoming - too many Xtian Zionists were blocking the entrace!

Be interesting to know if they source any of their olive oil from Palestinian farmers, particularly as we hear about how Jewish settlers are forever uprooting/burning Palestinian olive groves.

I realise that on a Saturday afternoon when things are in full swing, it is a bit intimidating to run the gaunlet afforded by either side in this protest. Yes there are Israeli flags being waved and leaflets thrust into peoples hands...yes sometimes it gets a bit heated....This unfortunately is the nature of this sort of beast.

I thought from our perspective we could be more considerate in our approach, and more careful with the Israeli flags and try not to poke out anyones eye.

Looking at the BDS posters I had no idea what narrative they were attempting to attach to the pictures, and when I challenged a gentleman as to what he thought was going on in the poster he held aloft, he was at a loss to explain it....seems a bit pointless really.

At the end of the day though, we are there to present a strong and determined counter to the information the BDS attempt to convince people is the absolute truth of the matter. The alternative is to continue to stand by and do nothing, and I can't do that anymore now that I see the what is going down.

As for the lies about Christian Zionists, these are the same tired old lies that TG wheels out on his blog as he tries to convince any that will listen that they are tarred with the same brush as the TV evangelist John Hagee...the fact is that the Christians at the protest have no agenda and are determined simply to stand and be counted with the Jewish community in making a stand for the free enterprise of the Israeli shop, to support Israel, and to present alternative information for the public to consider....if you don't believe it ask any of them.

As for where things are sourced...I know because I asked, but why don't you just go in the shop and ask for yourself. I too am saddened when I see these ancient olive trees uprooted, and Arab farmers distressed and helpless....maybe there is a bigger picture as is often the case, or maybe in this instance there is a case to be heard. No one has ever said Israel is lily-white.

Goyboy wrote:

Heathen Earth wrote:

Goyboy wrote:
Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

I did pass the shop on Saturday, and for the first time, but it didn't feel particularly welcoming - too many Xtian Zionists were blocking the entrace!

Be interesting to know if they source any of their olive oil from Palestinian farmers, particularly as we hear about how Jewish settlers are forever uprooting/burning Palestinian olive groves.

I realise that on a Saturday afternoon when things are in full swing, it is a bit intimidating to run the gaunlet afforded by either side in this protest. Yes there are Israeli flags being waved and leaflets thrust into peoples hands...yes sometimes it gets a bit heated....This unfortunately is the nature of this sort of beast.

I thought from our perspective we could be more considerate in our approach, and more careful with the Israeli flags and try not to poke out anyones eye.

Looking at the BDS posters I had no idea what narrative they were attempting to attach to the pictures, and when I challenged a gentleman as to what he thought was going on in the poster he held aloft, he was at a loss to explain it....seems a bit pointless really.

At the end of the day though, we are there to present a strong and determined counter to the information the BDS attempt to convince people is the absolute truth of the matter. The alternative is to continue to stand by and do nothing, and I can't do that anymore now that I see the what is going down.

As for the lies about Christian Zionists, these are the same tired old lies that TG wheels out on his blog as he tries to convince any that will listen that they are tarred with the same brush as the TV evangelist John Hagee...the fact is that the Christians at the protest have no agenda and are determined simply to stand and be counted with the Jewish community in making a stand for the free enterprise of the Israeli shop, to support Israel, and to present alternative information for the public to consider....if you don't believe it ask any of them.

As for where things are sourced...I know because I asked, but why don't you just go in the shop and ask for yourself. I too am saddened when I see these ancient olive trees uprooted, and Arab farmers distressed and helpless....maybe there is a bigger picture as is often the case, or maybe in this instance there is a case to be heard. No one has ever said Israel is lily-white.

Yawn................

....

I think when you open your curtains on Wednesday morning you will look out and see England. Some of the posters on this thread may even see Brighton

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:

Goyboy wrote:

Heathen Earth wrote:

Goyboy wrote:
Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

I did pass the shop on Saturday, and for the first time, but it didn't feel particularly welcoming - too many Xtian Zionists were blocking the entrace!

Be interesting to know if they source any of their olive oil from Palestinian farmers, particularly as we hear about how Jewish settlers are forever uprooting/burning Palestinian olive groves.

I realise that on a Saturday afternoon when things are in full swing, it is a bit intimidating to run the gaunlet afforded by either side in this protest. Yes there are Israeli flags being waved and leaflets thrust into peoples hands...yes sometimes it gets a bit heated....This unfortunately is the nature of this sort of beast.

I thought from our perspective we could be more considerate in our approach, and more careful with the Israeli flags and try not to poke out anyones eye.

Looking at the BDS posters I had no idea what narrative they were attempting to attach to the pictures, and when I challenged a gentleman as to what he thought was going on in the poster he held aloft, he was at a loss to explain it....seems a bit pointless really.

At the end of the day though, we are there to present a strong and determined counter to the information the BDS attempt to convince people is the absolute truth of the matter. The alternative is to continue to stand by and do nothing, and I can't do that anymore now that I see the what is going down.

As for the lies about Christian Zionists, these are the same tired old lies that TG wheels out on his blog as he tries to convince any that will listen that they are tarred with the same brush as the TV evangelist John Hagee...the fact is that the Christians at the protest have no agenda and are determined simply to stand and be counted with the Jewish community in making a stand for the free enterprise of the Israeli shop, to support Israel, and to present alternative information for the public to consider....if you don't believe it ask any of them.

As for where things are sourced...I know because I asked, but why don't you just go in the shop and ask for yourself. I too am saddened when I see these ancient olive trees uprooted, and Arab farmers distressed and helpless....maybe there is a bigger picture as is often the case, or maybe in this instance there is a case to be heard. No one has ever said Israel is lily-white.

Yawn................


....

I think when you open your curtains on Wednesday morning you will look out and see England. Some of the posters on this thread may even see Brighton

Well, if the Palestinian lady from the settlements where the EcoStream factory is, who stumbled across the protests on Saturday and said during her chat to the Israel supporters, that the Palestinian Solidarity group were completely mad...If she is still here, in the country, then she will definitely open her curtains and see England.. She may even see Brighton... One thing she certainly won't see is your point of view. Now run away and think of something new to say... Yawn.

Yawn................

....

I think when you open your curtains you will look out and see England. Some of the posters on this thread may even see Brighton

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:
Yawn................


....

I think when you open your curtains you will look out and see England. Some of the posters on this thread may even see Brighton

Ah repeating the same message repeatedly. Classic "Bladesboy" behaviour.

For those who don't know Bladesboy was his previous name but he had to drop it (and several other names) after being banned for unacceptable behaviour.

He can usually be spotted after one or two postings by his characteristic writing style (verbiage). He then usually confirms suspicions by demonstrating that he has no opinions about anything (apart from "Get a Job"). And sure as eggs is eggs he'll go on to the more extreme and annoying habits like this. I'm just waiting for the next trademark habit now.

Even David Cameron believes that the settlements are illegal. From his speech yesterday to United Jewish Israel Appeal annual dinner:

"But in the search for peace both sides have to make hard choices. And just as President Abbas has followed through his commitment to non-violence with real progress on the West Bank so Israel needs a real drive to improve life for ordinary Palestinians.
That means more support for economic development in the West Bank, relaxing restrictions on Gaza, ending the demolition of Palestinian homes, and yes, it means meeting Israel's obligations under the Roadmap and under international law to halt settlement building.
Britain's position will not change. Settlements beyond the green line are illegal."

Goyboy wrote:

Heathen Earth wrote:

Goyboy wrote:
Visit the Ecostream shop in Western Road...have a look at the innovative way they are cutting down on excess waste especially plastics.
Buy Soda-stream machines and refills, various olive oils, vinegars and much more.

People here have the democratic right to protest....but doing so against this shop which is green, supports Palestinian rights and contributes to the local economy is in my opinion... bonkers and demonstrates a far deeper agenda that suits the political objectives of those that oppose Israel unilaterally.

I did pass the shop on Saturday, and for the first time, but it didn't feel particularly welcoming - too many Xtian Zionists were blocking the entrace!

Be interesting to know if they source any of their olive oil from Palestinian farmers, particularly as we hear about how Jewish settlers are forever uprooting/burning Palestinian olive groves.

I realise that on a Saturday afternoon when things are in full swing, it is a bit intimidating to run the gaunlet afforded by either side in this protest. Yes there are Israeli flags being waved and leaflets thrust into peoples hands...yes sometimes it gets a bit heated....This unfortunately is the nature of this sort of beast.

I thought from our perspective we could be more considerate in our approach, and more careful with the Israeli flags and try not to poke out anyones eye.

Looking at the BDS posters I had no idea what narrative they were attempting to attach to the pictures, and when I challenged a gentleman as to what he thought was going on in the poster he held aloft, he was at a loss to explain it....seems a bit pointless really.

At the end of the day though, we are there to present a strong and determined counter to the information the BDS attempt to convince people is the absolute truth of the matter. The alternative is to continue to stand by and do nothing, and I can't do that anymore now that I see the what is going down.

As for the lies about Christian Zionists, these are the same tired old lies that TG wheels out on his blog as he tries to convince any that will listen that they are tarred with the same brush as the TV evangelist John Hagee...the fact is that the Christians at the protest have no agenda and are determined simply to stand and be counted with the Jewish community in making a stand for the free enterprise of the Israeli shop, to support Israel, and to present alternative information for the public to consider....if you don't believe it ask any of them.

As for where things are sourced...I know because I asked, but why don't you just go in the shop and ask for yourself. I too am saddened when I see these ancient olive trees uprooted, and Arab farmers distressed and helpless....maybe there is a bigger picture as is often the case, or maybe in this instance there is a case to be heard. No one has ever said Israel is lily-white.

Appreciate your post, too many people on here simply resort to personal insults, and to be honest, not what I expected, which was denial that olive trees are destroyed by settlers. Trouble is far too many defenders of Israel do consider Israel to be 'lily-white' and make excuses for some horrendous behaviour by both the State of Israel and the Settlers.

As for John Hagee etc, I've read about him from various sources and he does sound like a very nasty piece of work. Really not sure about the lies you refer to, but I consider xtian-Zionism to be fascist theology, anti-Semetic, racist and homophobic. I've read enough of their own literature to know not to be convinced otherwise.

Thank you GazScott - however your soundbite was taken out context thereby distorting the actual message of the speech.

Cameron also said "So if the Palestinian plan is simply posturing with the UN rather than negotiating with Israel, Britain will never support it.

And let me say this to the Palestinians too. Britain will never support anyone who sponsors a football tournament named after a suicide bomber who killed 20 Israelis in a restaurant. We will not tolerate incitement to terrorism."

For anyone interested in Cameron's full speech: http://www.number10.
gov.uk/news/ujia/

Serendiptiyblue19 wrote:
Thank you GazScott - however your soundbite was taken out context thereby distorting the actual message of the speech.

Cameron also said "So if the Palestinian plan is simply posturing with the UN rather than negotiating with Israel, Britain will never support it.

And let me say this to the Palestinians too. Britain will never support anyone who sponsors a football tournament named after a suicide bomber who killed 20 Israelis in a restaurant. We will not tolerate incitement to terrorism."

For anyone interested in Cameron's full speech: http://www.number10.

gov.uk/news/ujia/

I thought he made it quite clear that the settlements are illegal under International Law. Any amount of terrorism on either side won't change that.

But OK you talk about context: I think a few high profile Israeli politicians (Yitzhak Shamir and others) have a less than wholesome past when it comes to terrorism. Those interested should look up the Stern Gang. I wonder how many streets and monuments are proudly named after him and the other Zionist extremists and terrorists.

The area in question is East Jerusalem and is considered part of the West Bank by the UN. Hamas have control in Gaza, the West Bank is not under Hamas control so we can leave them out of it.
Israel claim it as their territory after taking it out of Jordanian control during the six day war, The Palestinian authority claim it as theirs and the UN agrees.
The argument that Israel is not as oppresive as a list of other nations is irrelevant, it is taking rent and taxes from land that does not legally belong to it, and this company are enjoying benefits from stolen land.

But the important question really is if the UN is unbiased and whether its resolutions can be trusted? Once one understands the politics within the UN along with the voting blocks, it puts into context why there is a disproportionate number of Resolutions passed against Israel.

Over the last century, a pattern has repeated several times.

First, Israel is attacked.

Second, Israel defends itself.

Third, The UN or other international group steps in to end the violence, calling for both sides to take certain actions to resolve the situation. (Note the UN is NOT impartial - it is only as good as its constituent states and the voting alliances formed).

And fourth, Israel attempts to comply but the intransigence and non-compliance of Israel’s enemies delays implementation.

However only Israel is the blamed for failing to comply while the failures of Israel’s enemies are ignored.

This pattern repeats over the decades: Sinai, 1967 war, 1973 war, Lebanon, and in 2002 with regard to Israeli actions in the territories, actions taken in reaction to a wave of homicide bombings in Israel.

But the important question really is if the UN is unbiased and whether its resolutions can be trusted? Once one understands the politics within the UN along with the voting blocks, it puts into context why there is a disproportionate number of Resolutions passed against Israel.

Over the last century, a pattern has repeated several times.

First, Israel is attacked.

Second, Israel defends itself.

Third, The UN or other international group steps in to end the violence, calling for both sides to take certain actions to resolve the situation. (Note the UN is NOT impartial - it is only as good as its constituent states and the voting alliances formed).

And fourth, Israel attempts to comply but the intransigence and non-compliance of Israel’s enemies delays implementation.

However only Israel is the blamed for failing to comply while the failures of Israel’s enemies are ignored.

This pattern repeats over the decades: Sinai, 1967 war, 1973 war, Lebanon, and in 2002 with regard to Israeli actions in the territories, actions taken in reaction to a wave of homicide bombings in Israel.

Although personally I believe in a total boycott of Israeli goods (as is my choice and right to try to persuade others) and would picket them anyway I think the crucial issue on this particular thread (since it is about this shop) is whether the Settlements are illegal. It is obvious that the Settlements are an obstacle to peace whatever your views are on what constitutes peace or who is obstructing it. And it is not just the UN who believe this it is the US State, the UK State and every other state in the world apart from Israel.

Can I also add that I think it odd that no one coordinated protests against the local boycott groups for 10 years when they were leafleting for a general boycott of Israel but now they are specifying the boycott of goods from the illegal settlements counter-protesters come out of the woodwork in force. Really odd that.

"An MP has been labelled an “anti- Zionist”

What is wrong with being "anti Zionist"? If that means that one opposes the hard line aggressive tone taken by the modern state of Israel. I guess that I am anti Zionist too, by that definition.

Now anti Semitic refers to something completely different.

john5001 wrote:

spa301 wrote:

sbiscorrupt wrote: Here we go again... As soon as anything is said opposing Israel's activities, either the 'anti-zionist'or 'anti-semitic' card is played... It's time that people who 'believe in Israel' stopped turning a blind eye to some of it's practices...and cease to deliberately try and mix rights issues with racism! If you ever manage to remove that plank in your eye Mr Cobbs, you'd see that abuses by both sides are condemned...

You beat me to it. Totally agree with your comment.

and me

and me

gaz scott wrote:
Although personally I believe in a total boycott of Israeli goods (as is my choice and right to try to persuade others) and would picket them anyway I think the crucial issue on this particular thread (since it is about this shop) is whether the Settlements are illegal. It is obvious that the Settlements are an obstacle to peace whatever your views are on what constitutes peace or who is obstructing it. And it is not just the UN who believe this it is the US State, the UK State and every other state in the world apart from Israel.

Can I also add that I think it odd that no one coordinated protests against the local boycott groups for 10 years when they were leafleting for a general boycott of Israel but now they are specifying the boycott of goods from the illegal settlements counter-protesters come out of the woodwork in force. Really odd that.

What absolute drivel. Do you make your posts nonsensical on purpose, or do you have intellect issue that pervades everything you think and write?

gaz scott wrote:
Although personally I believe in a total boycott of Israeli goods (as is my choice and right to try to persuade others) and would picket them anyway I think the crucial issue on this particular thread (since it is about this shop) is whether the Settlements are illegal. It is obvious that the Settlements are an obstacle to peace whatever your views are on what constitutes peace or who is obstructing it. And it is not just the UN who believe this it is the US State, the UK State and every other state in the world apart from Israel.

Can I also add that I think it odd that no one coordinated protests against the local boycott groups for 10 years when they were leafleting for a general boycott of Israel but now they are specifying the boycott of goods from the illegal settlements counter-protesters come out of the woodwork in force. Really odd that.

I am just the opposite, I will go out of my way to buy Israeli goods, and I don't differentiate if they come from a Palestinian source either as long as the product is good. I don't believe in boycotting Israeli goods at all, and actually believe that by and large is is a further attempt to denigrate and delegitimize Israel.

I know many people who join the boycotting think they are sticking up for Palestinian rights and pressuring Israel into conforming to world-wide pressure and demands...but I believe behind the so-called human rights issue is the desire to completely wipe Israel off the map, and those nations that endorse, encourage and feed these boycotts are rubbing their hands at the foolish naivity of the gullible Westerners doing their dirty work for them under such a convincing pretext.

That is why the racist and apartheid cards are being played, and that is why the language of lies is carefully constructed to do the most damage to Israels economy and reputation...many people now accept that Israel must be racist and apartheid because this slogan has become a subliminal message that has seeped into the consciousness of an unsuspecting public.

I agree that it is odd that nothing has been done these last 10 years to counter these protests in Brighton ...sometimes we are slow to wake up until we actually see the enemy at the door and can put a face to evil.

As anticipated, when I opened the curtains a few minutes ago, noticed that I am still in England (Brighton actually).

I didn't feel an urge to involve myself in the politics of other countries and don't intend to make a nuisance of myself today by causing an obstruction on the pavements of Brighton.

I will follow a similar routine tomorrow and will update again then.

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:
As anticipated, when I opened the curtains a few minutes ago, noticed that I am still in England (Brighton actually).

I didn't feel an urge to involve myself in the politics of other countries and don't intend to make a nuisance of myself today by causing an obstruction on the pavements of Brighton.

I will follow a similar routine tomorrow and will update again then.

Perpetrators, collaborators, bystanders, victims: we can be clear about three of these categories. The bystander, however, is the fulcrum. If there are enough notable exceptions, then protest reaches a critical mass. We don’t usually think of history as being shaped by silence, but, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:
As anticipated, when I opened the curtains a few minutes ago, noticed that I am still in England (Brighton actually).

I didn't feel an urge to involve myself in the politics of other countries and don't intend to make a nuisance of myself today by causing an obstruction on the pavements of Brighton.

I will follow a similar routine tomorrow and will update again then.

"and will update again then"

Why do you once again feel an urge to keep us informed daily of the fact that you don't give **** about the issues being discussed? This is one of your "trademarks" across multiple threads on these pages. Very strange.

Goyboy wrote:

gaz scott wrote:
Although personally I believe in a total boycott of Israeli goods (as is my choice and right to try to persuade others) and would picket them anyway I think the crucial issue on this particular thread (since it is about this shop) is whether the Settlements are illegal. It is obvious that the Settlements are an obstacle to peace whatever your views are on what constitutes peace or who is obstructing it. And it is not just the UN who believe this it is the US State, the UK State and every other state in the world apart from Israel.

Can I also add that I think it odd that no one coordinated protests against the local boycott groups for 10 years when they were leafleting for a general boycott of Israel but now they are specifying the boycott of goods from the illegal settlements counter-protesters come out of the woodwork in force. Really odd that.

I am just the opposite, I will go out of my way to buy Israeli goods, and I don't differentiate if they come from a Palestinian source either as long as the product is good. I don't believe in boycotting Israeli goods at all, and actually believe that by and large is is a further attempt to denigrate and delegitimize Israel.

I know many people who join the boycotting think they are sticking up for Palestinian rights and pressuring Israel into conforming to world-wide pressure and demands...but I believe behind the so-called human rights issue is the desire to completely wipe Israel off the map, and those nations that endorse, encourage and feed these boycotts are rubbing their hands at the foolish naivity of the gullible Westerners doing their dirty work for them under such a convincing pretext.

That is why the racist and apartheid cards are being played, and that is why the language of lies is carefully constructed to do the most damage to Israels economy and reputation...many people now accept that Israel must be racist and apartheid because this slogan has become a subliminal message that has seeped into the consciousness of an unsuspecting public.

I agree that it is odd that nothing has been done these last 10 years to counter these protests in Brighton ...sometimes we are slow to wake up until we actually see the enemy at the door and can put a face to evil.

I've still not seen a single explanation from you why only Israel considers the settlements legal and the rest of the world considers them illegal.

If Settlements are illegal then people shouldn't buy goods from them.

The only reason you have seen no explanation from me is because no one has asked the question, but I am very happy to comply with the request.

For a start the policy of the US regarding the settlements flies in the face of your blanket statement that 'the rest of the world considers the settlements illegal'...the US considers them 'ill-advised' and 'an obstacle to further peace negotiations'... they do not consider them illegal per se.

The proclamation of the International Court of Justice which is an extension of the United Nations has declared the settlements illegal...does that therefore make them illegal?....they and their accomplices (I used the word advisedly) would like us to think so but legally they pander to pressure from the Islamic world and have adopted the Palestinian narrative and in doing so have judged accordingly...that is not justice.

From a legal point of view and in conjunction with the fourth Geneva convention, the only way the settlements would be deemed illegal was if they had obtained them through being the aggressor and/or had captured sovereign territory.
Neither of these things is the case, and Israel has therefore exercised its legal right to side-step what it sees as farcical, legally inept and most importantly 'non-binding'.

The incomparable pressure being put on Israel from every conceivable angle to bow to Palestinian/Islamic demands is unrelenting...Israel has been successfully painted as a monster and now everyone is hunting her and seeks her harm directly or indirectly, with understanding or without understanding...and the non-Islamic world is playing into the hands of Islamic ideology...not standing up for human rights.

Israel is the only true haven for the Jewish people in the world, and is it any wonder now that the Jews are gathering in their homeland it has become the central focus of world-wide anti-Semitism that is disguised and denied by alternative terminology...but the ideals are exactly the same to deny them the right to govern their own land and to delegitimise Israel....and to vilify and marginalize any who support that nation.

History is truly repeating itself.

General Dreedle wrote:
I don't need to mention it as it is inevitable that the Anti-Semites will do that. That is war my friend. When a people is under attack they will do things that you and I would agree is not preferable in a free world. As I say, it is easy for you to judge in your safe european home. I wonder if you would live up to your name of 'Fight Back' if your people or family were ever under pressure. Would you plant your flag in the ground and take a stand or would melt like a soft european ****?

Well actually their standards aren't any higher than the Israeli's. Look at what "democratic" Britain did in Ireland, Iraq Afganistan only just recently

Just hypocracy

gaz scott wrote:

Somethingsarejustwro

ng wrote:
As anticipated, when I opened the curtains a few minutes ago, noticed that I am still in England (Brighton actually).

I didn't feel an urge to involve myself in the politics of other countries and don't intend to make a nuisance of myself today by causing an obstruction on the pavements of Brighton.

I will follow a similar routine tomorrow and will update again then.

"and will update again then"

Why do you once again feel an urge to keep us informed daily of the fact that you don't give **** about the issues being discussed? This is one of your "trademarks" across multiple threads on these pages. Very strange.

Because people like you don't seem to be able to grasp the most basic of concepts and I am trying to help you.

When you stop posting your nonsense I will know that you have understood and then I won't need to post!