Crackdown on parents taking Brighton and Hove pupils on term-time holidays (From The Argus)

Crack down on the travel agents extortionate fees, not the parents.

You're right Magoo, So £120 fine per child or pay over £1000 extra for going in school holidays? No brainer.

We don t all work for company's that will let us have time off in the school holidays. I work for a company where my leave is allocated. Another reason for me to leave my job, when it already works out better financially for be to claim benefits.
Children can learn from experiences as well as school and let's remember its a parents responsibility to provide a education for their child that doesn t always have to mean school.

It's disgusting that as soon as school holidays kick in, flights, holidays etc all become a LOT more expensive. For many parents I guess it's school time holidays or no holiday as it becomes unaffordable.

Travel agents? In the 21st century? Have you lot heard of the "internet"?

anonymous coward wrote:
Travel agents? In the 21st century? Have you lot heard of the "internet"?

Prices still rise significantly...

“Research shows lack of attendance takes its toll on students’ grades.

“If you’re not turning up for school for a month a year it is going to have an effect on your learning.” ....

Hmm...


I wonder what the effect the numerous 'inset' days have on that 'learning'... or the times schools close down when there is a snowflake in the air?...Or the term time holidays that heads/teachers are allowed?

Btw, a 'fine' is a statute offence...unenforcea
ble under common law!

I would just take this opportunity to mention another example of my pet hate - cyclists who go through red lights. Last night, after 6pm, in the dark, a cyclist travelling westbound went through a red light at the Hove Park Tavern traffic light and was almost hit by an articulated lorry. Fortunately for both, the driver saw the jerk on a bike and stopped.

Just what makes these people do that?! I wouldn't do it in a car, and I'm safer in a car than on a bike!

I don't get these people.

This term-time holiday issue is a complete red herring. I guarantee you that only a tiny proportion of the one in ten pupils who miss more than a month of school each year is due to holidays.

Persistent absentees tend to be from problem families where discipline is lacking.

And why shouldn't holiday companies increase their prices in the summer? It's down to supply and demand like any other business. If they didn't they'd go out of business.

I'm glad mine have left, we always took ours out of school for holidays - and their education did not suffer one iota because of it. And the fines would have to have been pretty hefty for us to have changed our behaviour.

It's simple supply and demand economics ! Demand is greater during school holidays therefore supply is restricted and prices will rise. During term time there is less demand and therefore prices are cheaper for those not having kids!

Strange that you never hear teachers mean the damage to childrens education because of all the inset days or days lost due to strike action. Nor do you hear the politicians mean the damage when schools are closed for voting. I wonder if any schools will be closed due to the farcical police chief election coming up in November ?

Teachers and politicians - do as we say not as we do - hypocritical idiots.

can we have a crackdown on teacher training days or when they decide to go on strike---as far as im concerned,whats good for the goose is also good for the gander!!!!

Perhaps if William Deighan managed to keep his pupils on his premises throughout the school day, so they weren't marauding around neighbouring streets and causing criminal damage, then they might learn more anyway?

When you have kids, one of the issues is that you have to take your holidays during school holidays when it's more expensive. That's always been the case, it's nothing new. Go back 40 years ago when I was at school and we had to have our holiday when the schools were off. It's a temporary thing that ends when your kids are between 5 and 16. Problem today is that people expect everything even when they can't afford it. It's a 'must have' society'. Holidays aren't essential. A lot of people stay at home for their holidays because they can't afford to go away. I remember several years when I was young when we didn't have a proper 'holiday' because my parents couldn't afford it. The people taking kids out of school and damaging their education because they want to jet off somewhere are selfish. People who put themselves above their children. If you have kids, your children's interests should come first. That's a sacrifice any decent parent has to make. It's not just the kids who suffeer, the teachers suffer too because when those kids get back they have missed certain lessons and have to be given extra help to catch up with the rest of the class. Illness can't be avoided. Holidays can.

prices do go up at school holiday times, but if you book early, you will still get free child places, if applicable. we have just booked next years, for july 25th, and because we are travelling thursday instead of the weekend, or monday, have saved over £600. pick you travel times carefully and you can save loads, just by being flexible. hotels will only charge what people are prepared to pay, so if we all said no one year, they would be forced to reduce their prices.

mandi26 wrote:
We don t all work for company's that will let us have time off in the school holidays. I work for a company where my leave is allocated. Another reason for me to leave my job, when it already works out better financially for be to claim benefits.
Children can learn from experiences as well as school and let's remember its a parents responsibility to provide a education for their child that doesn t always have to mean school.

Yes totally agree with you

Some of us are rosted holidays. We are told when our holidays are!!
In order to take the kids on holiday we have to do it when we are told. Our holiday allocation is never in the half term or summer holidays.
So they can fine me if they want, the fine is cheaper anyway

Than put the parant in prison than loose everything and kid gets abused in care home is that what you want all because a holiday !!! Saddam Hussein

funkyyoyo wrote:
can we have a crackdown on teacher training days or when they decide to go on strike---as far as im concerned,whats good for the goose is also good for the gander!!!!

Well said

I recall teachers going on about this when my eldest was at school ... that is well over 20 years ago now. Nothing new really just sad that holidays are deemed more important than education by some parents but t'was ever thus ....

My parents used to force me to go to Wales in holiday time, shouldnt they be fined as well??

sussexram40 wrote:
When you have kids, one of the issues is that you have to take your holidays during school holidays when it's more expensive. That's always been the case, it's nothing new. Go back 40 years ago when I was at school and we had to have our holiday when the schools were off. It's a temporary thing that ends when your kids are between 5 and 16. Problem today is that people expect everything even when they can't afford it. It's a 'must have' society'. Holidays aren't essential. A lot of people stay at home for their holidays because they can't afford to go away. I remember several years when I was young when we didn't have a proper 'holiday' because my parents couldn't afford it. The people taking kids out of school and damaging their education because they want to jet off somewhere are selfish. People who put themselves above their children. If you have kids, your children's interests should come first. That's a sacrifice any decent parent has to make. It's not just the kids who suffeer, the teachers suffer too because when those kids get back they have missed certain lessons and have to be given extra help to catch up with the rest of the class. Illness can't be avoided. Holidays can.

Well said. Personally I find some of the comments on here shocking. I am a single parent of a teenager and have never taken him out of school for a holiday. It's not just their education but also teaching them values - attendance is important- could come in handy for when they go to work? have any of you given any thought to the impact on the school and teachers who are trying to teach not knowing who is going to be absent from one month to the next? Where did the respect that we should have for teachers become so downgraded? And by the way, if you had any knowledge of the current education system you would know that inset days are necessary for planning - teachers have a hugely increased amount of paperwork to deal with (thanks to Ofsted and others)- would you like them to be doing it at midnight? And no, I am not a teacher, nor particularly well off - considered holidays in this country anyone?

sussexram40 wrote:
When you have kids, one of the issues is that you have to take your holidays during school holidays when it's more expensive. That's always been the case, it's nothing new. Go back 40 years ago when I was at school and we had to have our holiday when the schools were off. It's a temporary thing that ends when your kids are between 5 and 16. Problem today is that people expect everything even when they can't afford it. It's a 'must have' society'. Holidays aren't essential. A lot of people stay at home for their holidays because they can't afford to go away. I remember several years when I was young when we didn't have a proper 'holiday' because my parents couldn't afford it. The people taking kids out of school and damaging their education because they want to jet off somewhere are selfish. People who put themselves above their children. If you have kids, your children's interests should come first. That's a sacrifice any decent parent has to make. It's not just the kids who suffeer, the teachers suffer too because when those kids get back they have missed certain lessons and have to be given extra help to catch up with the rest of the class. Illness can't be avoided. Holidays can.

Well said. Personally I find some of the comments on here shocking. I am a single parent of a teenager and have never taken him out of school for a holiday. It's not just their education but also teaching them values - attendance is important- could come in handy for when they go to work? have any of you given any thought to the impact on the school and teachers who are trying to teach not knowing who is going to be absent from one month to the next? Where did the respect that we should have for teachers become so downgraded? And by the way, if you had any knowledge of the current education system you would know that inset days are necessary for planning - teachers have a hugely increased amount of paperwork to deal with (thanks to Ofsted and others)- would you like them to be doing it at midnight? And no, I am not a teacher, nor particularly well off - considered holidays in this country anyone?

Sorry but taking your child out of school for a 2 week holiday at primary school will not jeopardise any kids education what a load of council vs teacher drunken sordid orgy propaganda.

Flights???

Whats wrong with Camber Sands?

ripley48 wrote:

sussexram40 wrote:
When you have kids, one of the issues is that you have to take your holidays during school holidays when it's more expensive. That's always been the case, it's nothing new. Go back 40 years ago when I was at school and we had to have our holiday when the schools were off. It's a temporary thing that ends when your kids are between 5 and 16. Problem today is that people expect everything even when they can't afford it. It's a 'must have' society'. Holidays aren't essential. A lot of people stay at home for their holidays because they can't afford to go away. I remember several years when I was young when we didn't have a proper 'holiday' because my parents couldn't afford it. The people taking kids out of school and damaging their education because they want to jet off somewhere are selfish. People who put themselves above their children. If you have kids, your children's interests should come first. That's a sacrifice any decent parent has to make. It's not just the kids who suffeer, the teachers suffer too because when those kids get back they have missed certain lessons and have to be given extra help to catch up with the rest of the class. Illness can't be avoided. Holidays can.

Well said. Personally I find some of the comments on here shocking. I am a single parent of a teenager and have never taken him out of school for a holiday. It's not just their education but also teaching them values - attendance is important- could come in handy for when they go to work? have any of you given any thought to the impact on the school and teachers who are trying to teach not knowing who is going to be absent from one month to the next? Where did the respect that we should have for teachers become so downgraded? And by the way, if you had any knowledge of the current education system you would know that inset days are necessary for planning - teachers have a hugely increased amount of paperwork to deal with (thanks to Ofsted and others)- would you like them to be doing it at midnight? And no, I am not a teacher, nor particularly well off - considered holidays in this country anyone?

You can teach them to have a bit of spirit and to think for themselves as opposed to supinely following every single petty rule and regulation.

However we all bring our children up the way we think best and if you think that taking them out of school is 'bad' then fair enough. For my part I'll say that none of my kids got lower than a 'B' at either GCSE or A level, my son is in the second year of his music degree and my daughter, having got a first class degree and a Masters is now three years into her PhD. I'll admit it doesn't work for everyone, but my (rather smug) conscience is clear. Everyone's different.

I agree with a lot of what you say but not taking your kids out of school and having a little respect for the work that the teachers have to do and what they are up against is no bad thing. It isn't really connected to whether or not your children have a bit of spirit- that's the parent's job and not related to school attendance. As you say, everyone is different.

I agree with a lot of what you say but not taking your kids out of school and having a little respect for the work that the teachers have to do and what they are up against is no bad thing. It isn't really connected to whether or not your children have a bit of spirit- that's the parent's job and not related to school attendance. As you say, everyone is different.

I am rather shocked about the lack of interest of parents in a proper education of their children. In summer holidays I was always sent to a great boyscout camp. There are girl scouts camps as well. It is affordable!
Show some standards. The education level in the UK is not high anymore. Give your kids a chance. Do not think short term all the time!

Um...what about the 'local' school that is open next Friday but has asked that the students stay at home and do their homework?? Um...what about the 'local' school that closes at lunchtime and sends their students home when they have to prepare for open evenings?? Um...what about the 'local' school that has its staff going off on long-term sick leaving the students with temp after temp after temp??

I don't remember signing anything to accept these circumstances imposed by the schools and I certainly don't remember signing anything to say I would accept a fine if my child is away sick, on holiday, off for a special occasion.

Schools seem to forget that THEY ARE ANSWERABLE TO US, the parents, NOT the other way around. Children go to school for one reason and one reason only...so that the parents can go to work to pay the tax to fund the school. Schools are free babysitters! The so-called 'education' bit is made up to fill the time so anyone missing a month of it over the course of a year is really not missing much at all.

It's about time parents started to kick back a little and stop accepting it all 'as the way things are' because it's not.

This is no disrespect to hard-working teachers - we pay them to do a job (to babysit our children while we work to pay the tax that pays them). But those who like to believe they can dictate our lives to us, need a gentle 'no' every now and then!

This is an easy cash cow for lazy education chiefs to raise a few bob.

People who go on holiday can spare a few quid as opposed to those who's children just don't turn up on a daily basis. No point fining people who don't care in the first place

Blimey, based on some of the posts, I can only imagine that a lot of the people on here enjoyed long breaks from school, missing out on key bits of their education.

Boy Scouts have to believe in a Christian God or they are not accepted?

Strike action and inset days are different, because the whole class misses out, so no one child is left behind. Do people really not realise that when only one child misses school, they are left to catch up on what rest of the class learned when they were away? That catching up has a cumulative effect, which may not affect very bright children much, but they are not the majority.

The core of this story is that only 33% of children who miss a lot of school (for whatever reason) managed to attain 5 GCSE passes (including Maths and English). The man who posted whose daughter is doing a PhD clearly had bright children among the 33%. But that does not change the facts, and it is completely legitimate for schools/ councils to reduce pupil absence where possible, so that the less able get the qualifications which are required for the future that most of them would wish to have.

we would be given work by the school to do whilst on holiday! this so called crackdown is just another revenue making exercise nothing to do with kids missing school ! If the school was that bothered they would give the childs class work to do while away as they did when I was in my youth!! after all they know the curriculum before the term starts!!

Holidays more important than education - says it all.

They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

My holidays are allocated to me not chosen by me. In this internet age why not post work so my kiddies can do it while we are away and even hand it in to be marked? Almost everywhere you go now has WiFi available anyway so this feeble excuse from the council is just a cash cow about to be milked for all its worth. Alternatively holidays should be legislated to happen only during school holidays so we can all have special time with our families, after all secure happy families is a government ideal isn't it....isn't it??

vivelavive wrote:
They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Fact is schooling is important not just for the education but for so many other reasons. Establishing a routine involving daily social intercourse, interacting with people not of your immediate family, responsibility and accountability to and for others, the prioritisation of duties.

There are lots of things I could and have taught my children but there are also many things I cannot teach them and many issues I would never have thought of addressing had it not been for my children being introduced to them at school.

What about that Brighton Headmaster that did it last year?

ALSO

Up to 6,500 school pupils are absent from school on unauthorised holidays every day, a survey has found.

Half of parents are also prepared to risk being fined for taking their children out of school to pay less for their summer breaks, the research revealed.

One in three said the rocketing cost of taking trips during school holidays meant they could only afford to go away at off-peak times.

A family of four taking a two-week break in the Algarve will be hit with a 42 per cent increase during the official holidays.
Break: Almost half of all parents are prepared to risk being fined by taking their children on holiday during term-time

Break: Almost half of all parents are prepared to risk being fined by taking their children on holiday during term-time (posed picture)

Website travelsupermarket.co
m questioned 400 parents about their attitudes to term-time holidays.

Nearly half (48 per cent) said they had taken their child out of lessons for a family trip, a third (29 per cent) to miss the expense of peak season, and almost one in four (23 per cent) said travel was an important part of their child's education.

Asked if they would risk a fine, of up to £100, for taking term-time holidays, two fifths (41 per cent) said they would risk it to avoid paying a premium for peak school holiday trips.


More...

It may only be June but you can already meet this year's must-have Christmas present: The Fijit
'Be Prepared' for equality... The Scouts look to recruit more gay leaders and members

The survey claimed that more than 25,600 parents were fined in 2009 to 2010 for taking their child out of school in term time.

One in ten unauthorised school absences during the 2010 autumn term was due to family holidays with a staggering 6,500 pupils absent for this reason on any given day.

And according to recent truancy figures, for the same period, family holidays were the second most common reason for pupil absence.

Around a third (30 per cent) of days missed due to holiday were not authorised by the child's school, the Department for Education's figures showed.

Cash Bull wrote:
What about that Brighton Headmaster that did it last year?

ALSO

Up to 6,500 school pupils are absent from school on unauthorised holidays every day, a survey has found.

Half of parents are also prepared to risk being fined for taking their children out of school to pay less for their summer breaks, the research revealed.

One in three said the rocketing cost of taking trips during school holidays meant they could only afford to go away at off-peak times.

A family of four taking a two-week break in the Algarve will be hit with a 42 per cent increase during the official holidays.
Break: Almost half of all parents are prepared to risk being fined by taking their children on holiday during term-time

Break: Almost half of all parents are prepared to risk being fined by taking their children on holiday during term-time (posed picture)

Website travelsupermarket.co

m questioned 400 parents about their attitudes to term-time holidays.

Nearly half (48 per cent) said they had taken their child out of lessons for a family trip, a third (29 per cent) to miss the expense of peak season, and almost one in four (23 per cent) said travel was an important part of their child's education.

Asked if they would risk a fine, of up to £100, for taking term-time holidays, two fifths (41 per cent) said they would risk it to avoid paying a premium for peak school holiday trips.


More...

It may only be June but you can already meet this year's must-have Christmas present: The Fijit
'Be Prepared' for equality... The Scouts look to recruit more gay leaders and members

The survey claimed that more than 25,600 parents were fined in 2009 to 2010 for taking their child out of school in term time.

One in ten unauthorised school absences during the 2010 autumn term was due to family holidays with a staggering 6,500 pupils absent for this reason on any given day.

And according to recent truancy figures, for the same period, family holidays were the second most common reason for pupil absence.

Around a third (30 per cent) of days missed due to holiday were not authorised by the child's school, the Department for Education's figures showed.

Nice rant Cash Bull ... your point being?

mimseycal wrote:

vivelavive wrote:
They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Fact is schooling is important not just for the education but for so many other reasons. Establishing a routine involving daily social intercourse, interacting with people not of your immediate family, responsibility and accountability to and for others, the prioritisation of duties.

There are lots of things I could and have taught my children but there are also many things I cannot teach them and many issues I would never have thought of addressing had it not been for my children being introduced to them at school.

Don't get your knickers in a twist. We're talking about the odd day here and there not locking them in the cellar. You're just being silly.

mimseycal wrote:

vivelavive wrote:
They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Fact is schooling is important not just for the education but for so many other reasons. Establishing a routine involving daily social intercourse, interacting with people not of your immediate family, responsibility and accountability to and for others, the prioritisation of duties.

There are lots of things I could and have taught my children but there are also many things I cannot teach them and many issues I would never have thought of addressing had it not been for my children being introduced to them at school.

I am sure that has something to do with the School/Holiday story I am at a complete loss to as to what though.

If you re read my comment you did not understand......and the article which you failed to comprehend either you will see that it is about TAKING CHILDREN OUR OF SCHOOL FOR HOLIDAYS!

Keep up!


Up to 6,500 school pupils are absent from school on unauthorised holidays every day, a survey has found.

Half of parents are also prepared to risk being fined for taking their children out of school to pay less for their summer breaks, the research revealed.

One in three said the rocketing cost of taking trips during school holidays meant they could only afford to go away at off-peak times.

A family of four taking a two-week break in the Algarve will be hit with a 42 per cent increase during the official holidays almost half of all parents are prepared to risk being fined by taking their children on holiday during term-time

vivelavive wrote:

mimseycal wrote:

vivelavive wrote:
They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Fact is schooling is important not just for the education but for so many other reasons. Establishing a routine involving daily social intercourse, interacting with people not of your immediate family, responsibility and accountability to and for others, the prioritisation of duties.

There are lots of things I could and have taught my children but there are also many things I cannot teach them and many issues I would never have thought of addressing had it not been for my children being introduced to them at school.

Don't get your knickers in a twist. We're talking about the odd day here and there not locking them in the cellar. You're just being silly.

You don't fly somewhere for the odd day here and there. The article addresses the fact that children are being absented from school for family holidays.

My original comment on the article refers to the fact that this is not a new phenomenon. Twenty odd years ago when my eldest was at school, it was an issue of concern.

My response to Cash Bull refers to the fact that schools is about a lot more then just educating a child.

There is a very simple solution, just tell the authorities you are a traveller.

mimseycal wrote:

vivelavive wrote:

mimseycal wrote:

vivelavive wrote:
They'll be telling us what names to give them soon.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

Fact is schooling is important not just for the education but for so many other reasons. Establishing a routine involving daily social intercourse, interacting with people not of your immediate family, responsibility and accountability to and for others, the prioritisation of duties.

There are lots of things I could and have taught my children but there are also many things I cannot teach them and many issues I would never have thought of addressing had it not been for my children being introduced to them at school.

Don't get your knickers in a twist. We're talking about the odd day here and there not locking them in the cellar. You're just being silly.

You don't fly somewhere for the odd day here and there. The article addresses the fact that children are being absented from school for family holidays.

My original comment on the article refers to the fact that this is not a new phenomenon. Twenty odd years ago when my eldest was at school, it was an issue of concern.

My response to Cash Bull refers to the fact that schools is about a lot more then just educating a child.

But your response had NOTHING to do with the article or point being commented on. Miss much schooling yourself?

Ah I see ... getting personal and smarmy now. Always the last resort of those without substance ;)

mimseycal wrote:
Ah I see ... getting personal and smarmy now. Always the last resort of those without substance ;)

Actually, the last resort of those without substance is to back away sheltering under the claim of being victimised ;)

Hmmm, not sure I agree with this.

1) it's targeting the wrong problem. I'd imagine only a small proportion of the month or more that 10% have off is for holidays in term time. The bigger problem is most likely truancy and other absences without a reason give. But of course, it's easier to tackle the parents who go on holiday in term time, than truancy.

2) what if people cannot take their children on holiday during term time. As people have said, some are assigned holiday from work outside of holiday time, other's can't afford holidays in schools holidays. I'm not saying holidays are a must, but as someone who had very few holidays when younger due to parents not being able to afford them, I can say they can have a massive impact on a child's development and where possible, I would encourage any family or carer to take their children on holiday if possible.

3) we're assuming that a school is the only place a child can get education and the only place that a child can develop. That is wrong - and I say this as a former teacher. Schools play an important part in a child's education, but so should the parents thoughout someone's child hood. There are also experienced a child can only get away from school which are important for them when growing up.

So, in summary, I think we should encourage children to be taken on holiday if possible, even if that is in school time. Some areas have sensible rules where they are concious of the difficulties parents face in this area and sympathetically don't mind limited holidays during term time each year - a week or two a year taken at sensible times (ie when there are not exams or not during key times such as during the latter half of year 11) do little harm to a child's education. Yes, avoid such things if possible, but don't fine the parents if they are not taking the ****.

Instead our schools and education people should do two things:

1) tackle truancy
2) encourage parents to take education seriously and take their own responsiblity for their childs education seriously.

These are the real problems for underachievement in education, not taking a child out for a week here or there by parents who care for a child's education who wan to give them a decent holiday.

As with all things it is a question of balance.