Brighton council offers £14m loan to kickstart i360 (From The Argus)
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Brighton council offers £14m loan to kickstart i360
12:40pm Tuesday 1st May 2012 in Business News
A £35 million viewing tower dubbed a potential “tourism magnet” could be back on track thanks to a funding boost.
The planned i360, near Brighton’s West Pier, is expected to attract up to 800,000 visitors a year and create more than 500 jobs.
Developers have now received £3 million from the Coast to Capital local enterprise partnership, a panel designed to bring investment into the area.
Brighton and Hove City Council has also revealed it is prepared to loan the rest of the money – £14 million – to kick-start the project.
This means work could start on the project by the end of the year.
David Marks, of developers Marks Barfield, said: “We are not looking for a subsidy or a grant, and we will not put any burden on the taxpayer.
“I firmly believe our investment in the i360 will be the trigger for a lot more investment in the city, just as the London Eye was for the South Bank.”
A report will go to the council’s cabinet next week recommending the local authority look at loaning the money.
It would be repaid over 12 years from profits from the attraction.
Independent economists Aecom have said the i360 is likely to earn about two-and-a-half times more than the loan.
If judged viable, the loan will be signed off by the council in July.
The opening of the i360 would see the removal of the Brighton Wheel, which is currently based near the Palace Pier.
Geoffrey Bowden, the council’s cabinet member for culture, recreation and tourism, said: “At this stage we’re looking into the option. This would be a business and regeneration proposal by the council, not an act of charity.
“We are proposing this because the project is at such an advanced stage and the developers already have 50% of their funding in place.
“This project being at a standstill is costing the city at least £5 million a year, blocking completion of the seafront regeneration and preventing lots of other spin-off business taking place nearby.
“By making a loan, we end those problems, boost public coffers by renting out nearby seafront arches, collect more in business rates, radically smarten the seafront and create hundreds of jobs.”
A council spokesman said the loan option could not always be used as there were strict regulations meaning it could only be used where a project was self-funding.
The £3 million was from £23 million of grants from Coast to Capital announced last night.
About £6 million was awarded to the £83 million |Airfield Park business centre in Bognor which will create more than 800 jobs.
A further £1.2 million has been handed to those behind the Malling Brooks scheme in Lewes which is the first part of a multimillion pound regeneration of the town centre.
Comments(65)
Hove Actually
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12:55pm Tue 1 May 12
Kate234
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12:56pm Tue 1 May 12
Crystal Ball
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12:59pm Tue 1 May 12
Falstaff
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1:06pm Tue 1 May 12
The ferris wheel was supposed to pull in tens of thousands of people a month - has anybody seen it remotely full? Is there any proof that the i360 will do any better?
Lots of questions to answer before the council gambles with our money.
Busterblister
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1:08pm Tue 1 May 12
brightonsparkle
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1:24pm Tue 1 May 12
Falstaff wrote:I agree completely I went on the ferris a couple of weeks ago with friends who where visiting - 1. it not very good there is nothing to see as it not high enough and 2. We were the only people on there - it has been a disaster and if the i360 is going to end up the same I do not wish the council to invest, that is not being a nimby that is sound financial practice
If "Independent economists Aecom have said the i360 is likely to earn about two-and-a-half times more than the loan" then how come private investors have not come forward? What's the rate of interest to be charged? Will the council have to borrow to lend the £14 million? On what basis is the i360 supposed to attract 800,000 people a year? What are the 500 jobs? Where's the evidence?
The ferris wheel was supposed to pull in tens of thousands of people a month - has anybody seen it remotely full? Is there any proof that the i360 will do any better?
Lots of questions to answer before the council gambles with our money.
Stripes
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1:29pm Tue 1 May 12
*Apart from the £14 million loan.....from the taxpayer.*
And a comparison to the London Eye, pleeeeeeease! Situated on the thriving southbank with views of London landmarks OR "on your right - 25 miles of grey sea and a rusting pier shaped ironworks, on your left - the rooftops of Brighton. WOW, watch them flock.
fredaj
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1:32pm Tue 1 May 12
RickH
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1:32pm Tue 1 May 12
Stripes wrote:Maybe we should add views of....Seven Sisters, the Isle of Wight and the South Downs National Park to the list too. Seems like its not just horses that wear blinkers.
David Marks, of developers Marks Barfield, said: “We are not looking for a subsidy or a grant, and we will not put any burden on the taxpayer. *Apart from the £14 million loan.....from the taxpayer.* And a comparison to the London Eye, pleeeeeeease! Situated on the thriving southbank with views of London landmarks OR "on your right - 25 miles of grey sea and a rusting pier shaped ironworks, on your left - the rooftops of Brighton. WOW, watch them flock.
Stripes
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1:36pm Tue 1 May 12
Spanners
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1:37pm Tue 1 May 12
1)The things costs far more and takes far longer to put up than originally planned
2) Project then requires extra loans from the bank or council to finish. Prob the council as any sane bank would not fund this without some serious assets to secure the loan against
3) After a short time in operation the combined effect of being saddled with too much "unforseen" debt and income not being as much as forecast means the business is on the brink of insolvency
4) After a little more time the thing goes t1ts up and goes through a prepack adminstration. Which leaves the "new" business running just fine and its debts left behind in the old company
Result - Council are owed many millions they'll never see
RickH
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1:47pm Tue 1 May 12
Stripes wrote:You can see the Isle of Wight from the top of the helter-skelter on the pier on a clear day, the Seven Sisters are easily visible from 'ground level' on the Palace Pier and the Downs loom large all over town, so super-hero eye-sight isn't needed. As a the lyrics in a favourite song of mine state "...you don't need eyes to see, just vision..."
I wish I didn't have to wear blinkers and had superman vision such as yourself.
Morpheus
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1:57pm Tue 1 May 12
RickH wrote:Why settle for views when you can visit these places and get more enjoyment compared to being in a glass doughnut? Or it the cheap way and get a bus to Race Hill.
Stripes wrote:Maybe we should add views of....Seven Sisters, the Isle of Wight and the South Downs National Park to the list too. Seems like its not just horses that wear blinkers.
David Marks, of developers Marks Barfield, said: “We are not looking for a subsidy or a grant, and we will not put any burden on the taxpayer. *Apart from the £14 million loan.....from the taxpayer.* And a comparison to the London Eye, pleeeeeeease! Situated on the thriving southbank with views of London landmarks OR "on your right - 25 miles of grey sea and a rusting pier shaped ironworks, on your left - the rooftops of Brighton. WOW, watch them flock.
MouthO
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2:00pm Tue 1 May 12
PorkBoat
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2:14pm Tue 1 May 12
toldsloth
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2:16pm Tue 1 May 12
What in God's name is going on in Brighton & Hove at the moment? Blanket 20mph speed limits, massive price hikes for parking, increased bus fares, stupid hair brained road schemes (Old Shoreham Road. Lewes Road) etc. The last sraw for my was the proposed 20mph limits announced the other week - enough is enough and a £14m loan is WAY out of order.
DGee
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2:22pm Tue 1 May 12
ripmaxman
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2:31pm Tue 1 May 12
Attract visitors! I think not with the exorbitant parking charges people will go to other resorts on the South Coast.
As far the big wheel is concerned, I went on it with my cousin, and it is a total waste of time and money. You can see almost as much from the end of the pier without having to pay!!
DGee
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2:38pm Tue 1 May 12
Pebbles
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2:47pm Tue 1 May 12
The i360 will cost millions to operate and will become a rusted white elephant within a couple of years... and will then be left to rot.... collapse... and suddenly catch fire....
ripmaxman
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2:51pm Tue 1 May 12
DGee wrote:I totally agree. I thought that was what the Greens wanted to do.
I know I've got a better idea for the 14 mill, spend it on housing for people that were born in the city and are living in squalid bedsits.
PorkBoat
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3:31pm Tue 1 May 12
Hetherington
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3:39pm Tue 1 May 12
I am not surprised that Marcus Barfield was going to approach the Council for money as at the start of April they started to tidy up there very untidy site and doing cosmetic work on the site, along with new posters etc. Surely they don’t think this was sufficient for the Council to Loan them £14,000,000.
I can’t for the life of me believe that Brighton Council are so gullible that they will be once again drawn into this ridiculous project, that is purely one man’s ego – David Marks!
I appreciate that they were drawn in enough by granting of the initial Planning Permission and now they are proposing to GIVE Rate Payers Money to fund this outrageous Tower.
I hope that the Council has the foresight to reject their request OUTRIGHT!
My reasons for asking that the Council withhold funds, are as follows:-
If the Project Developer could not realize funding in times of plenty when Banks where lending money, as the project figures did not stack up, they will definitely not achieve it now, hence their approaching the Council for funding.
This Project WILL NEVER make a profit as how can anything that has between 30-50 people riding on at a cost of £10 per head every 20 minutes (at best) achieve revenue of £35,000,000,
at flat rate with No Interest / No Loan Repayments / No Tax / No Wages etc. It would take at least 6.5 years to raise this kind of revenue, with NO expenses incurred.
The true sums need to be done and I would appreciate a look at the figure supplied by Aecom as I feel that they are seriously lacking in their realism, and that like the initial project they are
A PIE IN THE SKY!
If the Council fund this project Brighton Rate Payers will never see a return on their money only a Tower that will be a further drain on the Councils already bleak funds, and a drain to the Brighton Tax Payers, that will require permeate, year on year support. And although we can look to our neighbors in Portsmouth where there tower is supported this project would never break even.
How can the Council give away this money when there have been so many cut backs in the Council budgets affecting the Old and Disabled? They are taking the money away from those in most need to fund a ludicrous project.
Brighton Council need to wake and smell the roses David Marks failed at the London Eye it was his ex-wife that moved the project forward etc., it won’t work!
Why not let Marcus Barfield get the funding elsewhere if this project is so viable. Or is it Banks have seen the figures and know that it is a long term TURKEY that would require long term support - in our case Rate Payers permanent commitment and funding!
Brighton Council Don’t Be so Daft!
Nick Brighton
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3:44pm Tue 1 May 12
bug eye
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5:28pm Tue 1 May 12
tinker000
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5:45pm Tue 1 May 12
robpotter
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6:10pm Tue 1 May 12
And don't say it will attract tourists - God knows we've seen enough letters to the Argus from people saying they'll never come back to Brighton because the parking is so ridiculously expensive.
Falstaff
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6:53pm Tue 1 May 12
Does anyone seriously think that's going to happen? If it's hot, visitors go to the beach. If it's cold they go to places like the Pavilion. I just can't see enough either going in circles or up and down to make either attraction viable.
What's the betting the i360 is never built and the ferris wheel is dismantled well before its supposed five-year temporary planning permission is up?
saveHOVE
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7:21pm Tue 1 May 12
Planning consent was granted in 2007 and as I recall, with no provision for coach drop-off, nowhere for taxis to drop off, nowhere to park and requiring a re-routing of the cycle path.
This will blight the view from the prestigious (bang goes their prestige) Grand and Metropole hotels.
If it was a goer they would, after 5 years of trying have achieved funding. They have failed because this is a bad investment prospect. Experts know this. Why don't council officers?
The Council officers who are rolling the Greens should be sacked forthwith.
gordongull
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8:04pm Tue 1 May 12
So what? What's that got to do with us?
Advanced stage? I didn't notice anything resembling a partially built tower at the weekend!
Why is the project ''being at a standstill'' costing the city at least £5 million a year? and why not complete the regeneration of the seafront without a tower?
500 jobs seems unlikely, and do they include temporary construction staff?
The Council is proposing to take a reckless gamble with public funds, in order to help developers put up an unaesthetic and inappropriate structure.
If it's too misty to see The Seven Sisters, There's always Seven Dials.
fedupwithgreens
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8:15pm Tue 1 May 12
Hovite
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8:25pm Tue 1 May 12
It is a use it once gimmick and of no benefit to local residents.
The Palace Pier has 1 million visitors over the year, but this is includes people using it regularly. There would be no repeat business with the i360.
I could maybe understand if the i360 was an add-on at the end of a new pier but not just dumped on the shoreline. If the estimated users is 800,000, this means 2192 people using it a day and that is not taking into account all the wet windy cold days in the winter.
It can only be used, weather permitting and no one is going to use it on anything but a clear day.
As others have said, if the developers can’t persuade anyone to invest, it means there is a massive problem to it making money and it is a dead duck!
mimseycal
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8:44pm Tue 1 May 12
wexler53
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10:22pm Tue 1 May 12
Phani Tikkala
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10:46pm Tue 1 May 12
Mmmm the i360.... Should get a good overhead view of the knocking shops, air conditioning units, and Churchill Square. Nice
John Steed
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11:17pm Tue 1 May 12
Busterblister
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8:26am Wed 2 May 12
Hovite wrote:As Dr Johnson once said: "Worth seeing, but not worth going to see".
This won’t actually attract more visitors to the city; I mean no one is going to come to Brighton just to go on this, so it won’t bring anymore revenue to the local economy.
It is a use it once gimmick and of no benefit to local residents.
The Palace Pier has 1 million visitors over the year, but this is includes people using it regularly. There would be no repeat business with the i360.
I could maybe understand if the i360 was an add-on at the end of a new pier but not just dumped on the shoreline. If the estimated users is 800,000, this means 2192 people using it a day and that is not taking into account all the wet windy cold days in the winter.
It can only be used, weather permitting and no one is going to use it on anything but a clear day.
As others have said, if the developers can’t persuade anyone to invest, it means there is a massive problem to it making money and it is a dead duck!
Morpheus
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9:34am Wed 2 May 12
Nick Brighton wrote:This really is the key question the council has to answer. No guarantee, no loan!
What guarantee is there, that the recipients of the loan don't squander it and then go bust, leaving the Council (tax payer) £14m out of pocket?
gordongull
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11:56am Wed 2 May 12
No wonder the banks have got vertigo!
flatflat
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12:53pm Wed 2 May 12
toldsloth
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1:51pm Wed 2 May 12
HappyCat
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4:32pm Wed 2 May 12
Who carries the risk if it goes over budget or doesn’t make money? And that seems likely.
Where will tall these visitors park? It is naive to expect more than a minority to come on public transport.
Is an observation tower really such a great, novel and wonderful thing that people will flock to it? They have had them in places like Bush Park in Florida for years and no one seems very interested in them there either.
If the council has £14 million spare to lend, why not rebuild the vandalised pier?
gordongull
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6:44pm Wed 2 May 12
It would incorporate a top floor restaurant and roof terrace open to the public, similar to that of the Montparnasse Tower in Paris, and be twice as tall as sussex heights, without, of course, sharing any of the design features of those two structures.
i360 sounds quite contemporary, so I have'nt got a problem with the name of the now- defunct scheme at the West Pier being retained:)
flatflat
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11:58am Thu 3 May 12
RickH
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1:55pm Thu 3 May 12
Morpheus wrote:By your logic, the same could be said for riding the London Eye, going up the Eiffel Tower, the Empire State Building, the Spinnaker Tower or, indeed, any other tourist attraction that offers views across the locale. I suppose 'tourist attraction' are the key words here.
RickH wrote:Why settle for views when you can visit these places and get more enjoyment compared to being in a glass doughnut? Or it the cheap way and get a bus to Race Hill.Stripes wrote: David Marks, of developers Marks Barfield, said: “We are not looking for a subsidy or a grant, and we will not put any burden on the taxpayer. *Apart from the £14 million loan.....from the taxpayer.* And a comparison to the London Eye, pleeeeeeease! Situated on the thriving southbank with views of London landmarks OR "on your right - 25 miles of grey sea and a rusting pier shaped ironworks, on your left - the rooftops of Brighton. WOW, watch them flock.Maybe we should add views of....Seven Sisters, the Isle of Wight and the South Downs National Park to the list too. Seems like its not just horses that wear blinkers.
beachfronttrader
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5:45pm Thu 3 May 12
The rationale for considering the merits of investment are flawed. The fact that Geoffrey Bawdwin considers leasing seafront arches as a key factor is just bizarre - there are no empty arches i know of.
The council recently let the old paddling pool to a young leisure company who spent thousands of their money brightening the appearance and bringing a new attraction to the seafront. Perhaps the council would like to consider investment opportunities from the local cafe/bar/coffee shops who i am sure could equally offer a good return.
This is nothing more than grandstanding and in no way should our city put this project above the need for a new leisure centre and better healthcare facilities. If the council put this out a referendum it would be shot down in flames. If the council are going to invest in the city it cannot be in a dubious tourism attraction like this. It will not add considerable new visitors, it will help the 12restaurants on Preston Street. It will destroy the new businesses such as Brighton Wheel and the segways company and how can a council refuse private investment from the likes of Mike Holland only to make themselves owners of a risk they have no experience whatsoever of managing.
If this project goes forward then Brighton is unfortunately doomed. Even the debate makes the city look quite amateur in the eyes of external investors.
Maybe we should wipe the sea breeze off our glasses before pointing at an 'opportunity'
flatflat
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12:20pm Fri 4 May 12
Thinking yourself are you?
Good on the Council...you will get my vote.
MouthO
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2:02pm Fri 4 May 12
flatflat wrote:flatflat...I remember reading your posts here before you were against the wheel, you are only in support of the i360 as you live opposite the wheel, so you definitely have a self centered view, best if you keep schtum as not only are you a 100% NIMBY!!! your also a BIG hypocrite!!! LOL
Sounds like a self centred view!!!
Thinking yourself are you?
Good on the Council...you will get my vote.
MouthO
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2:03pm Fri 4 May 12
flatflat wrote:flatflat...I remember reading your posts here before you were against the wheel, you are only in support of the i360 as you live opposite the wheel, so you definitely have a self centered view, best if you keep schtum as not only are you a 100% NIMBY!!! your also a BIG hypocrite!!! LOL
Sounds like a self centred view!!!
Thinking yourself are you?
Good on the Council...you will get my vote.
flatflat
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3:08pm Fri 4 May 12
toldsloth
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8:59am Sat 5 May 12
The supposed "tourists" cannot get to the city in the first place because of the huge traffic jams caused by the ridiclous road layouts and when they get here, they struggle to find a parking space. When they do it's so expensive that they can't afford to spend any more money on "attractions" and instead spend their time walking up and down our dilapidated seafront and marvelling at the ruins of the West Pier. They certainly don't go on the "wheel" at £8 a throw so there is no way they will spend a similar amount going up the i360 to have a view of the rooftops of Brighton!
Things like this make our city a laughing stock and without realising, the combined forces of idiocy are gradually ruining our city. They will need the £14m themselves to undo all the hair brained schemes at some point in the future to avoid the place going bankrupt because the "tourists" have gone to other tows with easier access and cheaper parking!
Popped vanity implant
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7:52pm Sat 5 May 12
mimseycal
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8:00pm Sat 5 May 12
Win/win for our councillors really ;)
nosolution
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9:54am Sun 6 May 12
vga
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2:57pm Sun 6 May 12
mimseycal
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3:07pm Sun 6 May 12
Want to start a petition?
brighton bluenose
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8:33am Mon 7 May 12
brighton bluenose
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8:46am Mon 7 May 12
Correction # 2 - Argus also reported on 15 Sept 2010 that it would cost £40m - they are clearly making up figures as they go along!!!
mimseycal
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8:59am Mon 7 May 12
Yeah ... right ... I believe you. Now how much did you say you wanted for the Golden Gate Bridge?
Nivag1
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12:29pm Mon 7 May 12
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-dor
set-17743434
gordongull
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4:47pm Mon 7 May 12
This is to be expected considering that it has been constructed at only 10% of the Brighton and Hove project.
An economically viable tower should attract private sector funding. If economic conditions, are not favourable, the project should either be put on hold until such time as private investors become available, or scrapped so that the seafront regeneration can be completed with alternative plans.
bbbazcooper
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7:29pm Mon 7 May 12
Burgess Boy
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12:29am Tue 8 May 12
Whoever it is at the council that is being won over by this lot needs step back for a moment and think very carefully about why they are so desparate to get this thing built? Is it because they are so keen to see Brighton on the up and up, or could it be because they have put so much on the line that backing out now is no longer an option for them?
Either way, the council has no place gambling away our money in the hope this project delivers on its promises when the only real winners will be the bank balances and egos of those currently blowing smoke up the posteriors of our elected leaders.
KempyLocals
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5:58pm Fri 11 May 12
FC says...
12:47pm Tue 1 May 12