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Comment: Should we keep dogs off beaches

2:45pm Monday 25th February 2008

comment Comments (26)   Have your say »

By Louise Poffley »

Brighton and Hove City Council is considering banning dogs from all the city's beaches from May to September and from other public places all year round. Many dog owners are bitterly opposed to the idea and say they are being penalised. They say litter louts leave more mess than dogs.

Louise Poffley reports.

There was a time when dogs were permitted in pubs and allowed to sit by the fire with a bowl of water, waiting for their owners to finish their pints.

It was not uncommon to see dogs in shops. In open spaces dogs were an accepted part of life. You would often see a pet sitting patiently on the touchline of a school football match with its owner, watching the children play.

In the past, dogs were even given their own toilets in some public places, including Hove Recreation Ground.

Now, however, Brighton and Hove City Council is to carry out consultations on proposals to ban dogs from a large number of areas in the city.

As well as the beaches over the summer months, they could be barred throughout the year from children's play areas, some school grounds, small historic city centre squares and cemeteries.

Chris Laurence, veterinary director of the Dogs Trust, which runs a rehoming centre just outside Shoreham, said education was as important as legislation and it should be considered first.

He said: "Local authorities such as Brighton and Hove should be encouraging people to be responsible.

The issue with bans such as this is they are difficult to enforce and usually a complete waste of time. It would surely be better to enforce the picking up of dogs' mess."

Mr Laurence said councils seem ed to overlook the Animal Welfare Act 2007 which placed a duty of care on owners to look after their animals. For dogs, that includes adequate exercise.

He said: "For dogs, exercise means two things. It means going somewhere they can use their nose, which is the way a dog communicates, and somewhere where they can gallop around. A beach is a perfect place for this."

He was adamant that for people to get full benefit from owning a dog their pets have to be allowed to be integrated into everyday life.

He said: "You need to keep the balance right. Twenty four-hour bans for five months of the year are just excessive."

Dog owner Liz Cook, 48, said: "More and more shops say no to dogs. The newer gastro-style pubs don't like dogs in the way the old pubby pubs do. If you walk into one with your dog they look at you as if you've got dog poo on your shoe. It seems the wealthier Brighton gets with things like trendy cafés, the more it adopts city ways and less the old Brighton town ways.

"With a dog you end up talking to people you would never have spoken to before. Once my mum got stopped 32 times on her way to Worthing by people coming up to her because of her dog."

She thinks it is wrong dogs would not be allowed to accompany their owners when they visit loved ones' graves. She used to take her last dog for walks around Woodvale Crematorium cemetery.

She said she believed responsible dog ownership to be the key and wanted to see the issue of owners clearing up dog mess tackled properly.

Angela Hire from Angela's Ark, which provides a dog walking service in the city, said things would be much better if the council provided more dog mess bins which would then encourage more people to pick it up. She said she did not take the dogs in her care for walks in Brighton and Hove because she preferred to take them to "nicer places".

She said: "Look at the rubbish people leave around. That makes much more mess than dog's mess, which disappears eventually."

Celia Barlow, MP for Hove, is strongly opposed to the proposals, which she thinks are badly thought out.

Ms Barlow said: "Dog walking provides community cohesion which we should be looking to promote.

These proposals will penalise dog-owners across the city who already don't have many places to walk their dogs. At the same time, there should be a balance between rights and responsibilities."

Ms Barlow and her office are in the process of organising a mass dog protest for Saturday, March 1, involving many of the dog owners who strongly disapprove of the proposed bans.

Councillor Geoffrey Theobald, chairman of the city council's environment committee, said the council had decided to update the by-laws and replace them with designated dog control orders.

Coun Theobald said: "I don't have a view one way or the other.

We're waiting for the public to speak. It's a wide-ranging review that goes right the way across the board. I'm genuinely interested in what people think."

For a fuller picture of where dogs will and will not be allowed under the new proposals, see the centre spread in Tuesday's The Argus newspaper.

Do you think a ban on dogs is fair?


Your Say YourArgus

Responsible Dog Owner, Brighton says...
3:41pm Mon 25 Feb 08

I intend to do anything I can to stop this ridiculous law being enforced. Give people a choice, that's what I say. If you don't like dogs, then go on the dog free beaches.

Money would be better spent providing more litter bins and free plastic bags. This is a comment I am frequently hearing since I started a petition this weekend to stop this ban.

I have started a group on Facebook (and have had plenty of support) which I will submit to the EVH before 28th March.

I didn't have a dream to move to the seaside and buy a dog only to be told I can't walk my dog on the beach!

Parks, Sussex says...
3:56pm Mon 25 Feb 08

It's a great idea...I didn't move to the beach for the dogs....I moved for fresh air and clean beaches. I am sure that the majority of dog owners are thoughtful, but it only takes a couple for other people's days to be ruined. Anyway why should my Council tax be used to provide the person above with bags...buy your own.

Disgruntled, Brighton says...
4:28pm Mon 25 Feb 08

Read the message properly. Nobody is saying you should have to spend your money buying bags, but it would be cheaper to do that than have people patrolling the beach for dogs. If you don't like dogs then go to the dog friendly beach. Simple

Responsible Dog Owner, Brighton says...
4:32pm Mon 25 Feb 08

What I am saying about bags and bins is that it would be better to encourage dog owners to be responsible and if not then fine them, rather than punishing those who have a dog who are responsible and spoiling it for everybody. If you want 'clean beaches' then go on the dog free beaches and then you'll be sure of that.

Selena123, says...
4:34pm Mon 25 Feb 08

To Parks, Sussex.

You want clean beaches - dogs are the very least of the problems. What about the the rubbish, broken bottles, hypodermics etc etc. or is it ok as long as it's not dog mess?

Nikkie, Brighton says...
6:09pm Mon 25 Feb 08

Leave us responsible dog owners alone it's hard enough to find a dog-friendly beach during the summer months.

kelly, brighton says...
9:13pm Mon 25 Feb 08

The majority of owners pick up.None of want to sit in dog mess.Why can we not keep the FEWbeaches that we have? The council encourage walking as a good form of exercise, is that just for those without dogs? Why not concentrate on keeping the drug dealers off the beach??

TheREALdisgruntle, hove says...
11:23pm Mon 25 Feb 08

I am not a dog owner. I have noticed that pavements, in the past 5yrs or so have become less of a hazzard with dog poop and most owners picking it up...however..paveme
nts are usually outside houses where people can see the dog owners..and the dog owners know this. ~On the beach..especially with all the pebbles..it is not that easy to spot the dog poop, and I have seen dog owners ignore the brown stuff when on the beach. However, if there are beaches that already ban dogs, there should be a beach that doesn't, and owners should try to stick to the shoreline where poopies will get washed away. Dogs can't get proper excercise on a lead. On the lighter side of things..let the dogs into the boneyards..er Graveyards..it teaches them self control..imagine how tempting it must be to them ..sniffing all those bones down there.!!

marlene, hove says...
12:19pm Tue 26 Feb 08

I think the ban would be unfair on dog owners there are plenty of beaches for humans to go on if they dont want to share a beach with dogs they are clearly marked and there is plenty of space. We often take our dog to the beach on the summer evenings and she loves to play in the sea to cool off.

Bill, Brighton says...
12:28pm Tue 26 Feb 08

I despair with the attitude of some people they are either the sort that cannot help poking their noses into all walks of life or the sort are happy to see hundreds of obese kids running around screaming because they have not been taught to talk.I find these more objectionable than someone walking a dog.
If they are going to enforce a ban on dogs on the beach will they also enforce the ban on riding of bikes on the Promenade and also do something about the roller bladers who are much more dangerous than dogs.If this council runs true to form then unlikely.Take the easy option and persecute a few people enjoying a little pleasure and as
usual ignore the bigger problem.
I will be opposing this ban and so should any sensble person.

Sylvia, Brighton says...
1:13pm Tue 26 Feb 08

I have been living in the Brighton area for 2 years now, having moved here from SA and in my view Pets are the best looked after and taken care of like having your own child in the UK. I am impressed with this and think the idea of Banning Dogs from Beaches and Parks is not a nice idea at all. Pet owners are doing a job well done at taking care of their four legged kids and I think they should get a pat on the back for this. It is always nice to see people walking their dogs and talking to them even in the Pubs.

Keep up the great work pet owner.


Spencer, Hove says...
1:40pm Tue 26 Feb 08

I'm sick to death of avoiding the copious amount of dog t*rds on our streets and beaches, the last time I took my daughter to the beach we both ended up with shoes caked in the stuff. These dog owners have a responsibility and I know most people do pick up their dogs mess.I can only see Heavy fines/court appearances/naming and shaming and banning dog ownership as the way forwards to stop these buffoons.
People get fined stupid amounts for dropping a crisp or banana skin on the street and it ends up in your paper, so why do these dog owners get away with it?..
Sort it out B&H council. these people wouldnt like it on their own doorstep so why do it on ours!

tracy, says...
3:20pm Tue 26 Feb 08

if the majority of dog owners clean up there dog s...t how come it is everywhere there is some out side my front door now.The last time we went too the park my grandson and myselfwewre both covered so no the majority of dog owners do not clean up there dog s..t.and thats why thay should be banned.It will be so nice to eat on the beach and in the park without that smell .

jeremy, brighton says...
4:43pm Tue 26 Feb 08

It is quite simple, dog owners love their dogs. Their dogs suffer if they do not get enough exercise and fresh air, so most dog owners will simply ignore this pettyminded nonsense.

joy, brighton says...
6:53pm Tue 26 Feb 08

I'd like to know how the consultation was carried out and how the questions were couched. They will have been cleverly devised to give the answers the Council wants, so let's see what they were please.
Once this ban is in place ALL the city parks will be next on the list, so this needs to be resolved now. Do we really want our money spent on pathetic "officers" patrolling the town ready to pounce. It's so sad that the town I was born into has become so narrow minded. Compromise and co-exist. I will be pleased to join the protest on Saturday accompanied by my two well behaved girls.

disillusioned, Hove says...
7:26pm Tue 26 Feb 08

Good idea. Ban these filthy animals and owners from the parks too. A couple of years ago I took my daughter to the Hove lawns to play on a bouncy castle. She took off her shoes as requested. When I was putting her shoes and socks back on I saw her feet and toes were covered with dog poo. The operator didn't want to know, and when I complained to my local councillor I got a reply saying that the council removes tons of dog poo every year from that area. As far a I am concerned I will be glad to see this obvious health hazard removed as soon as possible.

Helen, says...
10:06pm Tue 26 Feb 08

Yep, ban dogs fron beaches and patrol parks continually, imposing heavy fines on the owners for trangressions, it could be self financing properly done and why should poor council workmen have to clean up after other people's dogs? I'm always amazed by the way dog owners seem to think leaving little presents on the verge or pavement outside my house is OK, how would they have felt if I'd emptied the contents of my children's nappies outside their place. Having said that I don't have a problem with one set beach area for dogs, but how do you stop them encroaching on dog free beaches?

Fred, Brighton says...
1:34pm Wed 27 Feb 08

Let's hope that disillusioned of Hove's daughter does'nt go blind or deaf, is trapped in an earthquake or lost up a mountain. I'm sure one of these 'filthy animals' would be most welcome then!.

If we are talking filthy. Then no look no further than the human race.

John Lewis, Hove says...
2:05pm Wed 27 Feb 08

I wonder how many people have been prosecuted for their dog's fouling? A couple of years ago I reported someone, gave the council full details including the car registration number etc. A few weeks later they said they couldn't take any further action as they couldn't trace the vehicle!

I'm a dog owner and would like to see some beaches that are available for those dog owners that want to use them. I personally prefer to go up to Devil's Dyke area and try to avoid the small mountains of
horse poo that are around. No one seems to complain about that?

The council used to give out 'B&H council' dog poo bags at their summer dogs shows at the various parks around the city. After one I phoned them to see if I could get some more (collect from council offices) I was told "Oh no, we don't give them out to the public except at the dog shows".

I've also complained to the council before about the dog poo bins at Waterhall and East Brighton Park not being emptied regularly enough. Sometimes it goes for 3 or 4 days without being emptied.

ok - rant over!

las, bn3 3db says...
4:37pm Wed 27 Feb 08

dear spencer hove
disillusioned, Hove
Helen


Last summer during my dog walk, I saved a girl from the sea, /no one else tried it/ this summer If she is in trouble again I can't help her,
Today there was a brunette on the beach, she left an empty bottle there. Lets ban every brunette from the beach.
Lets ban everybody from the beach aged 17-30 yrs because last summer a boy and girl aged about 18-25 left a lot of broken glass.
Last summer there was a used nappy on the beach: lets ban the children from the beach.
spencer hove
disillusioned, Hove
Helen.
So please think before you comment.
I always clean it up.

Jack Russel, bn3 says...
4:48pm Wed 27 Feb 08

dear Spencer, disillusioned
Helen

Last summer during my dog walk, I rescued a girl from the sea this summer If she is in trouble again I can't help her
Last summer there was a nappy (use of course) on the beach: so lets ban the children from the beach!
Yesterday there was a woman on the beach, she left a bottle there: lets ban the women from the beach!
Last August at 2 p.m. !!!!!!!! I saw a man urinating at the groyn 2 p.m. !!!!!! lets ban the men from the beach!
So dear Spencer, disillusioned, Helen and the others think before you comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A responsible dog owner

Chris, Hove says...
12:07pm Thu 28 Feb 08

Parks wrote:
It's a great idea...I didn't move to the beach for the dogs....I moved for fresh air and clean beaches. I am sure that the majority of dog owners are thoughtful, but it only takes a couple for other people's days to be ruined. Anyway why should my Council tax be used to provide the person above with bags...buy your own.
Why should our council tax be allocated to people leaving ANY rubish around. A total ban on the beach is cruel as swimming is good exercise and its a good way for dogs to cool down. If you dont like dogs on the beaches why dont sit on which isnt an allocated dog beach!

Ben, Hove says...
6:18pm Thu 28 Feb 08

Fantastic idea:

* They are only proposing to ban dogs from the beaches during Summer months - our key tourist season. Let's keep our key asset an enjoyable and pleasant place to be.

* During Summer, if your dog HAS to 'cool down', drive it to a quieter beach along the coast where its mess is less likely to get trodden in.

* A ban will not prevent your dog from being walked-you can use the promenade.

* Faeces on pebbles is hard to pick up, especially runny stuff. I don't want my kids picking up handfuls of it whilst playing.

* Faeces on a pavement/promenade is still disgusting, but easier to pick up.

* Deal with dog mess AND litter, bins etc. Simple.

* Do the majority of residents own a dog? No. Therefore making the beach a nice place for the majority and tourists to enjoy in Summer by slightly incoveniencing dog owners makes perfect sense.

* How nice not to have random strange dogs jumping up at you, stealing your picnic, scaring your children, slobbering on your shoes for at least a few months a year. It may come as a surprise, but we DO NOT find it amusing.

* Hove Lawns is one giant dog toilet, not what it was designed for I'm sure. Try having a picnic there, sun-bathing, playing with your kids without stepping in piles of the stuff.

* Downs, parks, woodland, street not exactly short of places to go.

* A blanket ban keeps it simple, avoids confusion and arguments (I didn't realise etc).

* The 'social' benefits are outweighed by the repulsiveness and health hazard posed by dog mess.

* Dog walking does not promote social cohesion Celia, rather adhesion to your shoe and arguments with inconsiderate dog owners who think everyone will love the little present their 'girls' have left next to the nice people's pram.

Well done B&HCC.

Talk Sens, Brighton Dog owning resident, like so many others says...
2:27pm Fri 29 Feb 08

Oh yeah, great idea Ben from Hove.

I live in Brighton and I have a dog. Tell you what, I'll get in my car and drive to another beach shall I? I'll add to the congestion and pollution problems we already have. I'll leave you to be greedy with the 8 miles of dog-free coastline you propose to lay claim to so that you and all your dog hating friends can enjoy the beach without the presence of any dogs. I'm sure you'll be happy then will you, sitting there amongst all the other rubbish and broken bottles etc. etc. Then you'll be happy, just as long as there are no dogs. After all, all us dog owners are selfish and inconsiderate and we ALL leave our dog mess for you to sit in don't we? And of course, people find it so difficult and confusing to work out which beaches they can and can't go on? Don't talk rubbish! Most of us can read the signposts, so no real confusion there then. You're obviously so small minded and bigotted that you think putting a ban on anything that displeases you is the right thing to do. Well what about people's right to choose? Nobody's forcing you to sit on a dog friendly beach are they? No, YOU have a choice, just like everybody deserves. Nobody FORCES you to sit on a beach were dogs are allowed.

How selfish are you? Ban this, ban that.. I don't agree with it so it should be banned. Now stop wasting everybody's time with your small minded opinions and get a life. Or get a dog maybe. Might chill you out a bit.

Dinah Clarke, Hanover, Brighton says...
7:12pm Wed 19 Mar 08

As an animal lover, not a dog owner I find it outrageous and over the top to ban dogs from the beach all year round.I feel it would be a breech of the owners' and animals' rights to do so. If you really want to stop polluters "litter officers" should be employed to give on the spot fines to people who leave litter on the beaches and thereby pollute the oceans and ruin the environment. Every Summer I am absolutely shocked at the amount of litter left on our beaches...people should be made to think twice about their disgusting habits and a fine is how to do it.

Dogs are wonderful creatures, it's the irresponsible humans who should be banned from our beaches, not them.

Yours truly

Dinah Clarke

Glen, Leamington spa says...
11:13pm Sat 10 May 08

I live in Warwickshire. Every year I like to relax for a week away from my busy life by taking my Black and Tan Jack Russell away for a break as this forces me to chill out and the dog has a great time. Last year we went for a week in Weymouth, they have a great dog beach and we had a great chilled out time. I stayed in a very dog friendly B&B and spent my hard earned money in the town and contributed in a small way to the local economy.

What the hell has this got to do with us I hear you ask? Well this year after looking at dog friendly beach resort in the UK I had planned to spend a week in Brighton, but while searching to see what Brighton had to offer me and my dog who I ALWAYS clean up after. I have come across the great dog ban debate. I was about to book my week in late august but am concerned that a) my dog and myself would not be welcome along with my money!!!!! And b) that when I got down there we would not even be allowed on the dog friendly beaches…..

This is not rocket science people of Brighton!!!! there are two camps here, why not have a beach for dogs and owners and anyone who does not like to share a beach with a dog can use the vast areas that dogs are not allowed in, clamp down hard on the few people that do not feel they have a responsibility for their dogs actions. I agree with comments about children’s play areas; these should be marked as dog free zones. I walk my dog in my local park every day and keep him away from the play areas.

May I suggest you send a councillor to Weymouth to see how they manage it in a way that keeps everyone happy? And also I would not expect the taxpayers of Brighton to pay for my dog poo bags, I will bring my own they are only 99p from my local Pet store, If you need extra let me know and I can bring some….

Wake up Brighton this whole debate is not doing you image ay good to people like myself who wish to visit you and give you our money….. A little common sense goes along way.

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