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Binman strike may continue for days, says worker

11:26am Wednesday 13th February 2008

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By Miles Godfrey »

Residents face days of wildcat strikes by binmen after a row over working conditions.

Staff at Brighton's Cityclean depot threatened to continue today's industrial action until the disagreement is resolved, raising the prospect of streets overflowing with waste.

Staff have claimed managers at the Brighton and Hove City Council depot, which is responsible for collecting rubbish across the city, have used "bullying tactics" to increase productivity.

One worker told The Argus this morning: "We'll continue the strikes until the issue is resolved, that may be today, the end of the week, or the end of the month. We're prepared to go as long as it takes."

Around 200 depot staff downed tools on Tuesday in retaliation to having tightly-knit crews broken up by managers.

Four men have reportedly been moved from one lorry to another as management try to address the problem.

Another worker said his cousin, who also works at the depot, had been "punished" for having time off sick by being put onto another shift.

Although some bin collections went ahead, a majority of residents who were due to have their bins emptied yesterday were left without a service.

This morning's 6am rounds were carried out as normal.

But the second shift, due to begin working at 6.50am, refused to go to out Talks between the council and the GMB union are on-going in a bid to resolve the issue.

Although neither side was able to offer a firm indication on when the strike would be over.

One striker said: "The workers are fed up with management bullying tactics.

"We have asked the management to sit down and speak to union representatives.

"We are looking for a change of management approach to the workers."

The rounds are organised into crews of either three or five.

The worker, who did not wish to be named, said: "It becomes like a family unit."

They are picking an individual off the crews and moving them.

"When a new man comes on it takes them time to get to know it.

"Managers are expected to speak to representatives from the GMB union in the next few hours.

A spokesman for Brighton and Hove City Council said: "We are trying to resolve it as quickly as possible to minimise disruption so the crews can get back out there doing a great job."

Do you agree with the binmen? Leave your comments here or call the newsdesk on 01273 544519

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Your Say YourArgus

taxpayer, On the bog sh1tting suits says...
11:57am Wed 13 Feb 08

Come on Brighton and you meuselli bunch lets stop this councils constant bullying and come on Argus you have done tiny peices on this, how about some proper reporting and public exposure of the McCarthy Gang?

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
12:46pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Are we honestly not having our bins collected because the workers at Cityclean don't want to be separated from their little mates????? Is this a grown-up workplace or a school yard????? Bullying tactics by management, this sounds like bullying tactics by the workers - "we're going to hold our breaths until we turn blue, but we're not going to do as we're told!!!!" Pathetic!

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graham, hove says...
12:57pm Wed 13 Feb 08

"When a new man comes on it takes them time to get to know it.


Maybe the quote is a bit unfortunate, but if it's the case that they don't want to have their familiy units broken up and what a load of rubbish (sorry about the pun). The crews should really stop whining about nothing and be a bit more receptive to changes.

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crab apple, brighton says...
12:59pm Wed 13 Feb 08

The point they are trying to make is that management are doing that as a punishment.

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
1:04pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Is moving people really a punishment? I wouldn't mind too much getting in trouble with my job if all they were going to do is move me around! Also, it's really not nice to be calling people t*ss pots. You've really won me over with that one! In the meantime, you've all dragged me in to your silly little game and my rubbish is now going to be strewn all over the city - all because you want to hang out with your mates and chat at work. Boo hoo!

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:07pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I called you that because people like you are all about me me me! And to start with we don't chat as were working to hard and don't have the chance to.Secondly theres alot more to it than what has been said in this report.Thats not the only issue that was boguht up with the union.Others include not having enough vehicles and staff.

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
1:13pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Now, this sounds to me like you've got a case of the 'me, me, me's'. So far, the reportage has only mentioned people being split up. You've not talked about staff and vehicles. Are the shortage of staff and vehicles bullying tactics???? You're not really doing yourself any favours with your argument here. So while you're bleating about these things, you're making the rest of us suffer. That's the hypocrisy of it you see. Now, if it were something real, I'd be behind you, but you've not convinced me that it's anything more than stamping your feet like upset little children!

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Roger Tilbury, Worthing says...
1:25pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Do the crewes go on holiday together? No, of course they don't so presumably they have replacements. The vehicles are all the same, the bins/bags are all the sanme so what is there 'to get to know'? It sounds like a flimsy excuse is being used to cover something else.

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council binman, hollingdean says...
1:26pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I think the article has missed the point the main reason the strike was called was because most of the crews are going out short handed and not being able to complete there rounds so by the end of the week some rounds are 2 days behind and are expected to catch up. there is enough trucks to cover the rounds but if there was a breakdown there is no back up trucks as the spare trucks were taken off the fleet in november all because the council want to save money. sevices are being cut all across cityclean we are standing up for our rights as workers, and are struggling with present situations. At the end of the day, its the Brighton residents services (including cityclean)that will suffer because of the cut backs the new conservative council are making, it will make life difficult for everybody concerned.

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
1:29pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Now, that's an argument I can understand and agree with! Why hide behind all of this shouting and 'all B&HCC managers are bullies' business? This does seem reasonable, but why take wildcat action? It doesn't put you in a very good bargaining position does it? Shooting from the hip really doesn't often hit the mark does it?

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Angryman, hard at work says...
1:29pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Don't forget Wakey Wakey, the Argus are implict in this sham of a council we've got and their over paid managment consultants and are unlikely to have accurate reports on industrial issues.

And I doubt that these hard working bin collectors would leave you lot with rubbish pilling up without a good reason.

I've been working as a journalist in this city for years and whenever I've put together a decent story about how corrupt this council and their cronies are (particularly the deals involving the waste site being given to Veola behind Downs Primary School) no one wants to print it even with real evidence, interviews, witnessess, etc.

Just take a look on the other stories on this site to see how many comment on the bad journalism. The rag is edited by a Tory voting former Daily Mail editor!

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:31pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Exactly the point.Any other union would do the same if presented with this situation.

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
1:33pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I agree! The Argus very rarely lets the truth get in the way of a good story - this beggars the question, why did you contact it to be the mouthpiece of this particular action???? Doh!

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Wakey wakey, Brighton says...
1:34pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Is a wildcat strike backed by a union????

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:35pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Its not in our interests to let the rubbish pile up as its only going to be harder work trying to catch up again.We are not being paid while striking either.People only leave their selves short of cash if they have a good reason to.

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:37pm Wed 13 Feb 08

And no it is not backed by the union.They are however involved as the piggy in the middle.

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Angryman, hard at work says...
1:40pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I agree Crab Apple. I apologise if you thought I meant you were doing it on purpose.

I'm right behind you guys.

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council binman, hollingdean says...
1:42pm Wed 13 Feb 08

wakey wakey we did not ask the argus to be our mouth piece
and as crab apple states we are not being paid
its a pity we dont get the support of brighton and hove residents then we would not have to take matters in to our own hands

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:45pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I could get started on how the majority of the workers are actualy agency staff so the council can treat them how they want with out any real repercussions.For example the agency staff earn a third less than the contracted workers with the council.Theier work is also unreliable sometimes going a whole week without work.Sorry if there has been alot of spelling mistakes and stupid sentances but im angry as people always tend to take sides with the council when they don't know the complete story

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Angryman, hard at work says...
1:53pm Wed 13 Feb 08

The Argus will always do its best to prevent the people from supporting those in dispute by not giving the true facts.

I helped out a few years ago during the teaching assistants dispute by writing leaflets with the assistants to give out explaining what was really going on. We did a few stalls in the street too with a collection bucket to raise a strike fund. Schools were closed while they were on strike but almost all the parents we spoke to supported the assistants because they were told what was really going on.

You guys could do the same and put together a leaflet explaining the situation. Are you picketing the depot at the moment?

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crab apple, brighton says...
1:56pm Wed 13 Feb 08

no not at the moment.Im still not to sure whats going on as far as negotiations are concerned

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council binman, hollingdean says...
2:02pm Wed 13 Feb 08

A spokesman for Brighton and Hove City Council said: "We are trying to resolve it as quickly as possible to minimise disruption so the crews can get back out there doing a great job

this makes me laugh as the council will
talk to us till we go back to work

angryman any help or advice would be appreciated

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johnny, kemp town says...
2:04pm Wed 13 Feb 08

here here, im glad someone had mentioned the lies and hypocrisy of this newspaper..i always presumed as a locla neswpaper it would tell the truth.. but every single piece of news this paper has published where i have known the true story of whyat has happened (maybe 10 times over the past 5 years) the paper got the facts and the truth totally incorrect which makes you wonder about other stories you read that you just take for granted is true when its really a load of old codswallop

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graham, hove says...
2:15pm Wed 13 Feb 08

The tories have said they will keep council tax rise down to inflation and no higher.
Meanwhile central gov reduce their payment to the council partly to keep inflation and partly to reflect that the govt is borrowing too much.

Where am I going with this? Well it's surely not coincidental that the daft tories have made a stupid promise and now they are having to cut front line services...meanwhile they are giving at least a million of our cash to tart up the bandstand! Front line services or bandstand? no content, blow up the banstand along with the west pier!

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bannanaman, brighton says...
2:40pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I suggest that all bin men be shot if they refuse to collect my garbage, it is not my fault they didnt educate themselves and get descent jobs. Stop moaning and get back to work you lazy scum!!!

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the punished, says...
2:44pm Wed 13 Feb 08

we are missing the point here. without a plane a pilot cant do his job, without a bus a busdriver cant do his , so it goes without saying a dustman with no lorry .........the council are planning on the new eye sore recycling centre to save them time money and cost a lot of dustmen there jobs. the land was owned by the council so no matter what was said and whos lively hood suffered it was always going to be built, now the dustman are making a stand the council are not listening to them about shortages of lorrys lack of staff etc the same way they didnt listen to the residents around hollingdean over the building of the new recycling centre. so the question of bullying has been answered what the council want they get and to hell with anyone who gets in there way. good on the dustmen for standing up to them and come on brighton and hove give them your support

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the punished, says...
2:56pm Wed 13 Feb 08

as to bannanaman quote if you have a dustcart and if you want to lend a hand as it seems the council cant supply either, then i think the dustmen who are willing and want to work would be happy for your help and lets not forget who produces the waste to start with. by the way binmen is one word when i was educated

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crab apple, brighton says...
3:01pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Bannanaman it seems it is you who is uneducated as pointed out by the punished.

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colin, Brighton says...
3:02pm Wed 13 Feb 08

A few years back when cityclean decided to roll out wheelie bins across this city against the majority wishes of the people, (who actually own the company) most bin men fought on your behalf, only to be brow beaten and bullied into submission. Brighton council under both colours have always thought they know best what is good for us, the senior management and they know who I am referring too, have always preferred bullying to common sense. They tried to teach their work force equalities and anti bullying but did not practise what they preached themselves, the thing that annoys me are some of idiotic remarks made by some of the correspondence on this page. NOTE they did not strike for more money, although they probably need it after years of 1%, they walked out for the very thing Cityclean preaches, human dignity, over the past few years under both parties in government this very basic human right has been eroded. The time has now come to stop singing about Britain’s never being slaves and start practising it. Good luck lads most people know your right.

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council binman, hollingdean says...
3:23pm Wed 13 Feb 08

hank you for your support colin,punished
you have had the service cut back to breaking point and everyone down that yard WANT'S TO WORK a lot of people think were lazy overpaid ect ect thats their right to think that, i don't want to be on strike i can't afford to like most people who earn a wage could not afford to lose money but we can not carry on the way it is at the moment

bananaman i do have an education more than likely a better one than you, i chose to work on the bin's because i enjoy it not because it's all i can do

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Uge, Clearing My Bins says...
4:19pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Well i dont really care if they go on strike!!
wont notice any difference from the service i get now!!!

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punished, says...
4:43pm Wed 13 Feb 08

the reason you dont get a good service is the council are not only bullying there staff they are bullying the public too.why do you think you where only given a very small bin? this wasnt to ask you to recycle it was forcing you too. as binmen we are shouted at by the public who are angry when we leave the bags by the side of the bin and only empty the bin. we are told by managment not to take this extra rubbish so the public will get so fed up with it outside there homes that the only way to reduce it is to recycle.as i say FORCING YOU to do it.£50 fine in some cases if you dont. they also put so much work on us they leave no room anyway on the lorry to take sidewaste and if we do some people at the end of the rounds wouldnt get a collection. so come on people stop blaming the dustmen and blame the real culprits the council. but if you quit happy to pay through the nose for this service and i hope you like you new multi million pound eye sore recycling centre that you have paid for and that will really make you all heathy in years to come with all the noise, dust and 50-60 gas gussling lorry running out of it a day then sit back and cheer on you beloved council or like me get a backbone and stop them running and damaging your lives.

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gavin, brighton says...
5:07pm Wed 13 Feb 08

gosh, what the binmen are really crying about is that they have to go back out after finishing what they consider to be their work, how many other people do you know that daily finish at 12 and get paid till 3. Work that out. If agency staff want to do the job then employ them, they wil happily work the full day. Well done Team Cityclean

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gavin, brighton says...
5:15pm Wed 13 Feb 08

'the crews are going out short handed and not being able to complete there rounds so by the end of the week some rounds are 2 days behind and are expected to catch up'

a load of codswallop - not enough work to cover a full day - like i said crying becauese they have to work what they're paid for

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punished, says...
5:15pm Wed 13 Feb 08

and who devised the work they were given ? yes the MANAGMENT. so if its not enough in your eyes who is to blame for this gavin ? yes the MANAGMENT. but who gets it in the neck YES THE DUSTMEN.

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gavin, brighton says...
5:18pm Wed 13 Feb 08

so now there is enough work why not get on and do it instead of bleating about it or let other people who want to do it

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ms brighton, brighton says...
5:26pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I think the binman need to grow up, adults move units offices in work placements, if it such a problem can they put them selves in to therapy

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the punished, says...
5:28pm Wed 13 Feb 08

try and keep up with the topic. do you have a dustcart and agency staff up your sleeve they can borrow?.........if you have 5 men on a lorry and 3 are on holiday and because the agency cant supply staff because not many people want to work for them for about £5.50. then the dustmen would go out to work.

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gavin, 950-778 says...
5:34pm Wed 13 Feb 08

im sure the majority of tax payers would agree work the hours your paid for? am i wrong? as other people have said here today, if theres other issues speak up and maybe the public will be behind you, right now, i dont see the gripe

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gavin, brighton says...
5:37pm Wed 13 Feb 08

if a crew come back at 12 what is the reason they shouldnt go back out till the end of their shift

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the punished, says...
5:53pm Wed 13 Feb 08

der...not enough staff and not enough lorries ....... wake up

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gavin, 728-727 says...
5:55pm Wed 13 Feb 08

der yourself they can go back out in the same lorry they came in on at 12.00!!!

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council binman, hollingdean says...
6:02pm Wed 13 Feb 08

so gavin in your eyes what should we do if a lorry breaksdown and there is no spare collect it in a wheelbarroww???
and personely i finish at 2.30pm not 12 wish i did, so gavin if you had a problem in your workplace you would not say anything ?? come to cityclean the managment would love you to work there or have you worked there before as you seem to think you know what you are talking about

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tax paying resident, Brighton says...
6:31pm Wed 13 Feb 08

When in the past my refuse has not been colected on the scheduled day, and the number of times is numerous, I have immediately e-mailed Alan McCarthy (CEO Brighton & Hove City Council) and without exception the delegated response has been "we are running late because one of our lorries broke down" at some point in time earlier.

This current dispute is clearly about more than moving "buddies" away from each other although I cannot imagine any of the collectors have in their employment contracts a clause that they can determine who they actually work with. I also think it's time the Council came clean and let us council tax payers (it is we who pay all of the wages)know why it is they are doing such a bad job of manageing waste collections in our City.

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council binman, hollingdean says...
6:48pm Wed 13 Feb 08

tax paying resident,
the reporting on this strike has been poor to say the least
they have taken a minor issue that to be honest cant see a problem with, which should be reported properly in thursdays paper,the main reason of the strike is that there is not enough staff,trucks there is no faith in managment the service is being slowly crushed and as for allan macarthy he more than likely is right a lorry has broken down the point is they got rid of the spare lorries and will not hire a replacement in to cover it so the crew goes on another round and you get missed that day then the crew has double work the next day trying to catch up thats if they get the truck back the next day there are 4 managers in the yard all on about 35 grand which i would not even trust them with a litter pickers barrow
you may think were moaning thats up to you but until you have spent a month on the bins and see how it stumbles from one day to the next to get a better picture

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steve, BRIGHTON says...
7:03pm Wed 13 Feb 08

good for you dustmen.
as for going back out with the lorry at 12:00,the vehicle then has to be tipped as it is full which is a 45min roud trip thencould only work for 1 hour as lorry has to be tipped again because it is not allowed to be left loaded in depot due to fire risks, thus not leaving enough time to load lorry.

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cd-r, says...
7:17pm Wed 13 Feb 08

You r taking the pxxx.binmen in brighton think of any thing to get money for nothing. if u don't like your job, if u don't like management, if you haven't got a truck, get another job but stop pxxxing about with city, u need to get into the real world of real work

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ste, brighton says...
7:42pm Wed 13 Feb 08

The government cuts the money it gives to councils every year (labour and cons)
it then caps the council tax rise to 5% every year.
so concils have to cut services every year
usually the elderly and disabled care get cut first but in this case its the waste.
remeber we are fighting 2 wars at the moment and it has to be paid for

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sandra, brighton says...
8:01pm Wed 13 Feb 08

I think the management should think before they move people around. I was hit by a dustman in 2006. He ran off and left me for dead. The management have decided that he should empty my bin. If I could walk and have the strength I would give him a taste of his own medicine. What are they thinbking letting come near my house, are they stupid or what.

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CD-R, says...
8:06pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Absolute nonsense. u can cut councils costs easily because they are big bureaucracies with many staff just shuffling paper. Refuse costs in this city should be cut - they are one of the most expensive services in the country. this strike is about old 1970's union against a democratically elected conservatives and naive dustman. where is thatcher when you need her ???

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split bag man, btm north rd says...
8:50pm Wed 13 Feb 08

many points that the dustman make are in fact very valid.i know this because the vehicles are often not working-not because the mechanics dont fix them(they are understaffed).i know most people think its not rocket science,but believe it or not-you do have to learn your routes,you have to know which bins could contain needles ect..this is only gained through knowledge of your round.if you are then moved,not only does that person have to learn a new round,the person who replaced him has to learn his old round.why not leave everything as it is?
however,it should be noted that the dustmans job IS NOT job and finish,and most do go home early,a fact that management-luckily for them,chooses to ignore.if a dustman starts at 7am-he could be asked to work until 2.44.by rights,no one should be going home early-regardless of if they have finished thier work,they can always help thier mates if they are so behind.do you also know that if a bag is split,or been put out late by a resident,its not the dustman who has to pick it up,it is in fact the street cleansers(who dont,as far as i am aware go home early).
union-what union?
it is only lately that unions have again started to have meetings with the workforce again.
some dust crews dont bother turning up because it means they wont finish early,some street cleansers dont bother turning up because they say its always about recycling or the dustmen,others dont bother because management say you wont get paid while your having the meeting,and others say whats the point,the head men of the union have abandoned them and cant be bothered to attend.
most feel the union has layed down and died ever since the council took it over.
to most people this must all seem very petty,but a workplace is about fairness.here,in many ways everyone is guilty of doing something wrong-even bannanaman?--if you are so well educated,why cant you spell decent?lol---have you never heard the saying dont judge a book by its cover?

anyway,wait until the new site is up and running.thats when there really will be problems!!!!

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Wake up BHCC staff, Brighton says...
10:43pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Actually the staff across the council are crap - they just got a 2/4 for use of resources by the recent Audit Com inspection - thats crap by council standards - I work for a 4/4 and were crap so god knows whats its like to get 2/4

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BRAD, PEACEHAVEN says...
10:50pm Wed 13 Feb 08

dustmen what are they ? we have people who come around sometimes as much as once a week and steal our rubbish i have tryed catching them but they are too quick . they come running in the garden grab the bags from my dustbin pull them out very quickly splitting the bags and leaving most of the rubbish all over the garden .they are very hard to catch because i never know what day they are going to turn up . next week i am going to confuse them and put it all in yellow bags instead of black ones .just you wait whoever you are ill catch ya one day ..

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Dave, At home says...
12:13am Thu 14 Feb 08

Well I support the binmen and women, they have done this city proud over the last year, they have caught up with bank holidays quickly and yes they might rop a few bits as they go but to be on the job at 6am is more than enough for me, you keep demanding your buffer rights, like extra trucks and back up crews, I would hate to see rubbish piling up again. As for management, can't see them ever doing the rounds and showing everyone, including the Argus how much better they could do the job, cos they can't.

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Graham, Brighton says...
4:35am Thu 14 Feb 08

to hell with the dispute. I expect my rubbish to be collected on the designated day. If this does not happen
I will withhold the proportion of council tax that I see fit & I urge everybody to do the same - why should we pay for a service we are not getting ? When the rubbish IS collected,
no effort is made to pick up the dropped items & the road resembles a bomb site
as the crews pursue their indecent haste
to get off duty so that they can commence their second jobs to pay for their foreign holidays

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Dave, Brighton says...
6:45pm Fri 15 Feb 08

I agree with bannanaman - if they dont want the job there are many that do - All we want is our bins emptied ours were supposed to be emptied on Wednesday but now they are overflowing and rubbish everywhere. I expect it will be worse over the weekend. Funny thing is I saw some litter pickers out today - whats the point in that - Just get back to work bin men or let someone else have the job. My brother-in-law is looking for a bin mans job. 20K A year before overtime lovely -

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emma s.s.s, hove/hanglton says...
10:40am Mon 18 Feb 08

i really need my rubbish collected, work is work not a social club we all have to work with people we dont want to dont we?? please come on guys collect the rubbish or can anyone tell me where i can take my own rubbish 2?

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