What now for the King Alfred? (From The Argus)

I'll reiterate my point made previously that the majority of residents do not want to see a huge development of apartments that our already overburdened infrastructure cannot cope with. What B&H desperately needs is a world class sports complex to encourage people of all ages to get out & about and participate in some form of physical exercise & this site is perfect for it. With the inspiration many people had from this years Olympics, and with GB hosting the 2012 games, you'd think that the council would have the foresight to really build (quite literally) on this initiative & put forward this as a new proposal............
.................but clearly this appears to be too much to ask!!!

Wiggsy wrote:
I'll reiterate my point made previously that the majority of residents do not want to see a huge development of apartments that our already overburdened infrastructure cannot cope with. What B&H desperately needs is a world class sports complex to encourage people of all ages to get out & about and participate in some form of physical exercise & this site is perfect for it. With the inspiration many people had from this years Olympics, and with GB hosting the 2012 games, you'd think that the council would have the foresight to really build (quite literally) on this initiative & put forward this as a new proposal............

.................but clearly this appears to be too much to ask!!!

agreed.

as a major city for visitors, brighton and hove deserves a top class leisure centre, but not at the cost of extra housing which it cannot cope with. the council should have been working on this years ago. as it is, i'm afraid that burgess hill has beaten you to it with the triangle centre, which caters for all the family needs. i am a regular visitor to your city, as i have family there, but still make the short trip to the triangle for swimming etc. maybe the council should have made this part of the agreement to allow the new falmer stadium!!!

I'm glad that Councillor Mitchell think this decision is a "no-brainer".

It makes her the ideal person to make it.

no doubt this will go the same way as The West Pier, Blackrock, I360 (which will never be built), The Stad du Falmer (which will never be built), Park and ride etc etc Brighton& HOve have a great tradition of not doing things and /or letting them rot.

I have a name for it - The Lockwood effect after DR Geoff Lockwood the hapless West Pier trust chair, whose under his stewardship the West pier is what it is today. Harsh but true

"He said a refurbishment of the King Alfred would cost between £10 million and £15 million"

so if they'd invested the 13million quid spent on wasted plans etc into refurbishment it would probably be nearing completion.

I am just waiting for it to "catch" fire like everything else people want rid of...

BBBrighton wrote:
"He said a refurbishment of the King Alfred would cost between £10 million and £15 million" so if they'd invested the 13million quid spent on wasted plans etc into refurbishment it would probably be nearing completion.

Absolutely.
Furthermore why should Karis be given a second chance? They have not come out of this smelling of roses. Now is the time to get someone on board who can help the people of Brighton and HOVE and not their own pocket.

Of course labour councillors want the opposite of what local residents want.We just want a leisure centre.We do not want 700 rabbit hutches built on this site.

Where does Councillor Mitchell get her figure of £16 million for a basic refurb from I wonder?

As someone who works in the construction industry we've just built a fair size four storey office block at Gatwick for just £10 million - so you'd get a helluva lot of refurb for the figure given by Coun Mitchell.

Frankly I think her figure is plucked out of thin air as I doubt anyone has gone to the trouble of properly costing the refurb as it was always going to be demolished and replaced by the Karis monstroisity!!

So Mitchell wants to put all our money into the Brighton Centre.
Who could have guessed that once Brighton and Hove joined together Brighton would slowly rip all the assets from Hove.....ME and every other Hove Tax Payer, that's who.

If Labour had not neglected this asset for the last 10 years it would not be as it is now, at the end of it's life.
Just what is it my ever increasing Council tax and general taxes get used on.
One city Two Towns Three Town Halls
and a very nice bit of tarmac outside Kings house thats where, which brings us back to the missing ornate street lights moved to Brighton and rusty metal ones shoved up in there place.

The selfish Tories,,won't want anyone **** on their parade ,,its all about them and their needs ,dont forget,

Even in its present state the King Alfred is a great asset to the City and is in a good position. It looks to me that the basic fabric is still sound notwithstanding the exposed position. (I wonder if a modern building would have lasted so long!) All it needs is some on-going tlc. It doesn't all need to be done at once.

quedula wrote:
Even in its present state the King Alfred is a great asset to the City and is in a good position. It looks to me that the basic fabric is still sound notwithstanding the exposed position. (I wonder if a modern building would have lasted so long!) All it needs is some on-going tlc. It doesn't all need to be done at once.

good point - why not spend the £1million or so they are quoting for a refurbishement job now, that will last a few more years to take us past the recession, when major redevelopment (but not those god-awful towers) can be reconsidered. its a no brainer. if the COuncil need some money, why dont they sell of some of their other (many) property assets?

Councillor Gill Mitchell I presume doesn't live in Brighton or indeed this century?

Yes blow £16million on the Brighton centre when we have at least 10 perfectly good alternative establishments which can easily facilitate the functions used there.

OR Stop our kids from being so god-**** fat, lazy, and unproductive by building an efficient appealing state of the art leisure centre.

Hmmm which one would we all like to see? Oh that's it somewhere to host the Councillors own political party conference every year.

F@@k off.

The council should be ashamed of their actions. It is the same with all their projects. Their ideas are well beyond their pockets so they get involved with private companies who then dictate the terms and the views of the Brighton residents gets ignored. We should ignore the councillors at the next election and vote the lot of them out.

I would love the day we could vot
NONE OF THE ABOVE
as they all end up lying condesending un-parented prople who forget who they are meant to be working for

Every year there is a roughly £50m Capital Funding allocation made in the February Budget for the financial year ahead by BHCC.

The existing KA pools are 25 years old and inside the building is the earliest combined heat & power unit in the area which is highly sustainable and seriously green and heats the pool water.

In a 2003 paper to the Policy & Resources Committee about the leisure services I learned that Sport England's Lottery fund coughs up a few Million here and there to fund refurbishments and that Greenwich pioneered a not-for-profit Trust Model for running leisure services that is highly regarded and used by many other boroughs now.

There is enough money available for a substantial refurbishment in other words and for Tony Mernagh and Gill Mitchell to try to prevent the King Alfred from having it is a scandal that is more about saving face than saving The Brighton Centre!

They totally blew it; they know it and they are just being mean now to create a politically motivated duststorm diversion pretending to be effective opposition.

Keeping the pools and Combined Heat & Power unit and rebuilding around them and over the RNR site adjacent is DO-ABLE!

And I thank Brighton Blue Nose for his comment on the £4m 4-storey office block at Gatwick. Any expertise that can counter the burblings of the unhelpful Gill Mitchell is important to have at this time to help all of us understand what is and is not possible.

Valerie Paynter for saveHOVE

Apologies Blue Nose. I just spotted my error. £10m and not £4m for the Gatwick office block. Lobby your councillors if you want the King Alfred to take priority over The Brighton Centre getting a new bar! Or whatever....

Valerie Paynter

i hope that on november the 20th that councillor mears pushes through the refurbishment and we finally get what we deserve and a great historical,structual
ly sound building gets the maitenance it should have had -and karis are sent away,they have dresden house and black lion street to play with.as for finding money by selling off some council properties-the previous administration already sold them off,cheaply too,just look at medina house.long live hms king alfred and well done save hove!

What great comments we have here and I echo each and every one but I am sure one of two things will happen to them... 1) they will be deleted because they all make sense or 2) the so called people we put into controlling our City (and that's a joke) will not be able to bring themselves to reading the comments.

What a shame there isn't one person in this City to stand up to these money wasting ****'s and get things moving in the right direction, because they would get a hell of a lot of votes including mine.

Traffic wardens gone, more police on the streets, 50p an hour parking, proper cycle ways, minimum amount of buses on the roads, running full instead of empty and breaking up our road, traffic lights that sync with the flow of traffic, street cleaners on every road every day, clearing out the drug dens and drunks in the city and surrounding areas, finding things for the young people to do, sell off Kings house and use the 3 town halls better, get rid of at least 75% of the support staff and 100% of their support staff, issue all elected councillors use G-whizz cars and make them use them, make the utility companies totally relaid the road they have just dug up and put all the savings and reserves into a World Class sports & leisure centre covering the existing site and the green patch on the other side of the road with a proper sandy beach for all patrons to use.

Has anyone got the bolls to stand for this at the next election? I fear not.

Dave At Home wrote:
What great comments we have here and I echo each and every one but I am sure one of two things will happen to them... 1) they will be deleted because they all make sense or 2) the so called people we put into controlling our City (and that's a joke) will not be able to bring themselves to reading the comments. What a shame there isn't one person in this City to stand up to these money wasting ****'s and get things moving in the right direction, because they would get a hell of a lot of votes including mine. Traffic wardens gone, more police on the streets, 50p an hour parking, proper cycle ways, minimum amount of buses on the roads, running full instead of empty and breaking up our road, traffic lights that sync with the flow of traffic, street cleaners on every road every day, clearing out the drug dens and drunks in the city and surrounding areas, finding things for the young people to do, sell off Kings house and use the 3 town halls better, get rid of at least 75% of the support staff and 100% of their support staff, issue all elected councillors use G-whizz cars and make them use them, make the utility companies totally relaid the road they have just dug up and put all the savings and reserves into a World Class sports & leisure centre covering the existing site and the green patch on the other side of the road with a proper sandy beach for all patrons to use. Has anyone got the bolls to stand for this at the next election? I fear not.

I`d stand for something similar to this, with the addition of the following: (1, 2 and 3 are serious, the rest not quite so)


1) Signpost alternative routes to the A23, rather than forcing all traffic out of the city onto one road

2) Where there are roadworks, they are to be manned 24/7 until filled in. The job would be assessed so that the times would be known, and that would be the paid time for the job. If it took any longer there would be financial penalties for the contractor, i.e. they wouldn`t get paid.

3) A proper park and ride system at Patcham with a new railway station (Patcham Parkway anyone?)

4) Serious debate on the merits or otherwise of either a tramway (Do you know the old tram rails are still there under the roads around the Steine?) or an Underground line for Brighton - If they can build that sewage tunnel they can build a tube line

5) A proper main bus station for Brighton, possibly using compulsory purchase powers on Pool Valley, and its restoration to its 1980`s state (ie with the old canopies, dedicated queue points etc.). This would remove the coast road/country bus services like the 12, 14, 28 29 etc from North Street and Churchill Square

6) Demolish Churchill Square, because I don`t like it. I`d put it back like it was before.

If you think that a refurbished KA would be a great asset to the city then I can only assume you would be happy living somewhere attractive like, say, Milton Keynes, Slough or Croydon.

And what ON EARTH is this terror of new housing? (Of which Brighton and Hove is in great need - credit crunch or not).

What is it about Brighton council? They are boast about the huge sums spent on cycle lanes - partly to get people fit presumably - but they don't seem to get the idea that cyling and football are not the only exercise people want to do. I want a decent swimming pool and a skating rink; my kids would like a properly equiped gymnastics centre, a skateboard park big enough to cater for a huge demand and tennis courts that don't cost an arm or a leg. Why is is all so difficult? They can manage it in other places.

Thank goodness for onerob of Hove. I was beginning to think I was the only person on here that thinks the KA is an eyesore and well past the point where a 'refurbishment' could bring it up to the required standard of a modern leisure centre. If it wasn't for the likes of the Nimby's in Hove building work would probably have been under way long ago. Sums up the mentality of the vocal Brighton / Hove Nimby's - living in their own little parochial regency world; the city will never fulfil it's potential with this lot around.

Lets face it the tory rich people win everything in life and get there own way.As we all see on tv now with the police shows if they stop the rich doing 110 miles hr the fine means nothing.It only works against poor people.

Mr. Kipling wrote:

Dave At Home wrote:
What great comments we have here and I echo each and every one but I am sure one of two things will happen to them... 1) they will be deleted because they all make sense or 2) the so called people we put into controlling our City (and that's a joke) will not be able to bring themselves to reading the comments. What a shame there isn't one person in this City to stand up to these money wasting ****'s and get things moving in the right direction, because they would get a hell of a lot of votes including mine. Traffic wardens gone, more police on the streets, 50p an hour parking, proper cycle ways, minimum amount of buses on the roads, running full instead of empty and breaking up our road, traffic lights that sync with the flow of traffic, street cleaners on every road every day, clearing out the drug dens and drunks in the city and surrounding areas, finding things for the young people to do, sell off Kings house and use the 3 town halls better, get rid of at least 75% of the support staff and 100% of their support staff, issue all elected councillors use G-whizz cars and make them use them, make the utility companies totally relaid the road they have just dug up and put all the savings and reserves into a World Class sports & leisure centre covering the existing site and the green patch on the other side of the road with a proper sandy beach for all patrons to use. Has anyone got the bolls to stand for this at the next election? I fear not.

I`d stand for something similar to this, with the addition of the following: (1, 2 and 3 are serious, the rest not quite so)


1) Signpost alternative routes to the A23, rather than forcing all traffic out of the city onto one road

2) Where there are roadworks, they are to be manned 24/7 until filled in. The job would be assessed so that the times would be known, and that would be the paid time for the job. If it took any longer there would be financial penalties for the contractor, i.e. they wouldn`t get paid.

3) A proper park and ride system at Patcham with a new railway station (Patcham Parkway anyone?)

4) Serious debate on the merits or otherwise of either a tramway (Do you know the old tram rails are still there under the roads around the Steine?) or an Underground line for Brighton - If they can build that sewage tunnel they can build a tube line

5) A proper main bus station for Brighton, possibly using compulsory purchase powers on Pool Valley, and its restoration to its 1980`s state (ie with the old canopies, dedicated queue points etc.). This would remove the coast road/country bus services like the 12, 14, 28 29 etc from North Street and Churchill Square

6) Demolish Churchill Square, because I don`t like it. I`d put it back like it was before.

well said mr kipling. the only point i can't quite agree with, although i understand where you are coming from, is point 6. i would hate to see churchhill sq all open, and with crap shops like bejam, but the other points all make perfect sense.

I'm new to this debate but these comments - and common sense - tells you that the people of the area want a 21st century pool and sports centre here - that's all they want. So why has the council spent council tax money over reaching themselves with other things? How much money in terms of man hours worked has been racked up by the council on this nonsense that has all come apart anyway? How much have they actually spent on plans rather than putting those resources into doing things? They should be held to account and - whoever is responsible for such a fiasco - judged as to their competence for the job they're trusted to do.

The comments of Gill Mitchell and Tony Mernagh sum up what has happened over the past 10 years -let's do nothing, let it rot, hope someone else picks up the bill and don't worry about the residents. This must not be allowed to happen again or drag on any longer. Too much time and money has been wasted on schemes which are totally misconceived and now wholly out-of-date in their concept that the property market will keep going up and up and people will keep on buying. A line must be drawn under this and all efforts put into providing the residents (who incidentally Dave from Hastings are not all nimbys but just council-tax paying hard-working people who want a quality of life and some return for their money)with a great leisue facility which will enhance the area.

davyboy wrote:

Mr. Kipling wrote:

Dave At Home wrote: What great comments we have here and I echo each and every one but I am sure one of two things will happen to them... 1) they will be deleted because they all make sense or 2) the so called people we put into controlling our City (and that's a joke) will not be able to bring themselves to reading the comments. What a shame there isn't one person in this City to stand up to these money wasting ****'s and get things moving in the right direction, because they would get a hell of a lot of votes including mine. Traffic wardens gone, more police on the streets, 50p an hour parking, proper cycle ways, minimum amount of buses on the roads, running full instead of empty and breaking up our road, traffic lights that sync with the flow of traffic, street cleaners on every road every day, clearing out the drug dens and drunks in the city and surrounding areas, finding things for the young people to do, sell off Kings house and use the 3 town halls better, get rid of at least 75% of the support staff and 100% of their support staff, issue all elected councillors use G-whizz cars and make them use them, make the utility companies totally relaid the road they have just dug up and put all the savings and reserves into a World Class sports & leisure centre covering the existing site and the green patch on the other side of the road with a proper sandy beach for all patrons to use. Has anyone got the bolls to stand for this at the next election? I fear not.

I`d stand for something similar to this, with the addition of the following: (1, 2 and 3 are serious, the rest not quite so) 1) Signpost alternative routes to the A23, rather than forcing all traffic out of the city onto one road 2) Where there are roadworks, they are to be manned 24/7 until filled in. The job would be assessed so that the times would be known, and that would be the paid time for the job. If it took any longer there would be financial penalties for the contractor, i.e. they wouldn`t get paid. 3) A proper park and ride system at Patcham with a new railway station (Patcham Parkway anyone?) 4) Serious debate on the merits or otherwise of either a tramway (Do you know the old tram rails are still there under the roads around the Steine?) or an Underground line for Brighton - If they can build that sewage tunnel they can build a tube line 5) A proper main bus station for Brighton, possibly using compulsory purchase powers on Pool Valley, and its restoration to its 1980`s state (ie with the old canopies, dedicated queue points etc.). This would remove the coast road/country bus services like the 12, 14, 28 29 etc from North Street and Churchill Square 6) Demolish Churchill Square, because I don`t like it. I`d put it back like it was before.

well said mr kipling. the only point i can't quite agree with, although i understand where you are coming from, is point 6. i would hate to see churchhill sq all open, and with crap shops like bejam, but the other points all make perfect sense.

The idea was you have all the current shops etc, but around the old open plaza, I usually avoid churchill sq as it is, cos it`s too crowded

"Sums up the mentality of the vocal Brighton / Hove Nimby's - living in their own little parochial regency world; the city will never fulfil it's potential with this lot around."

How true,so often Brightonians are quick to slag of surrounding areas yet if you read all the above and many other news stories on here its amazing just what basic facilities are missing from brighton and all the failed projects there have been. I really think Brighton has seriously lost its way and the council probably have the lions share of teh blame for that.

I've just come out of ASDA and seen the headlines on display outside the Argus building. It said, "King Alfred Latest." My response was, "So, he didn't burn the cakes after all. It was just a vicious rumour put about by those nasty Danes, just to try and discredit the King." Sorry, I thought it was funny.

Everything has a silver lining... Thank god for the credit crunch in this instance! I do hope the council sees sense and seeks a clear cut off (divorce) from the applicants and starts afresh. A sports/community centre with conference facilities in line with Crawly sports centre, some restaurants and shops would be ideal, but on a much smaller scale than the unsightly Karis plan.

Eva Denker
Hove

Mr. Kipling wrote:

davyboy wrote:

Mr. Kipling wrote:

Dave At Home wrote: What great comments we have here and I echo each and every one but I am sure one of two things will happen to them... 1) they will be deleted because they all make sense or 2) the so called people we put into controlling our City (and that's a joke) will not be able to bring themselves to reading the comments. What a shame there isn't one person in this City to stand up to these money wasting ****'s and get things moving in the right direction, because they would get a hell of a lot of votes including mine. Traffic wardens gone, more police on the streets, 50p an hour parking, proper cycle ways, minimum amount of buses on the roads, running full instead of empty and breaking up our road, traffic lights that sync with the flow of traffic, street cleaners on every road every day, clearing out the drug dens and drunks in the city and surrounding areas, finding things for the young people to do, sell off Kings house and use the 3 town halls better, get rid of at least 75% of the support staff and 100% of their support staff, issue all elected councillors use G-whizz cars and make them use them, make the utility companies totally relaid the road they have just dug up and put all the savings and reserves into a World Class sports & leisure centre covering the existing site and the green patch on the other side of the road with a proper sandy beach for all patrons to use. Has anyone got the bolls to stand for this at the next election? I fear not.

I`d stand for something similar to this, with the addition of the following: (1, 2 and 3 are serious, the rest not quite so) 1) Signpost alternative routes to the A23, rather than forcing all traffic out of the city onto one road 2) Where there are roadworks, they are to be manned 24/7 until filled in. The job would be assessed so that the times would be known, and that would be the paid time for the job. If it took any longer there would be financial penalties for the contractor, i.e. they wouldn`t get paid. 3) A proper park and ride system at Patcham with a new railway station (Patcham Parkway anyone?) 4) Serious debate on the merits or otherwise of either a tramway (Do you know the old tram rails are still there under the roads around the Steine?) or an Underground line for Brighton - If they can build that sewage tunnel they can build a tube line 5) A proper main bus station for Brighton, possibly using compulsory purchase powers on Pool Valley, and its restoration to its 1980`s state (ie with the old canopies, dedicated queue points etc.). This would remove the coast road/country bus services like the 12, 14, 28 29 etc from North Street and Churchill Square 6) Demolish Churchill Square, because I don`t like it. I`d put it back like it was before.

well said mr kipling. the only point i can't quite agree with, although i understand where you are coming from, is point 6. i would hate to see churchhill sq all open, and with crap shops like bejam, but the other points all make perfect sense.

The idea was you have all the current shops etc, but around the old open plaza, I usually avoid churchill sq as it is, cos it`s too crowded

oh right, got you now. yes a good idea, bit of open space whilst shopping. love the other ideas too, but far too sensible for the council down there!

Why is it that if you object to the massive ill planned KA housing complex ,you are immediately branded by the champagne socialists as being a Tory Nimby.Last week we had Prescott making a fool of himself in his programme about being working class and consequently a labour voter.I am afraid you are all iving in the past.Get real and uptodate.Aghiros was only ever interested in the money.Labour who spun this for years only wanted the votes from renters,renting the 40% council/housing association rabbit hutches proposed.Majority of locals never wanted this monstrosity.They want a leisure centre with a pool and uptodate facilities.Maybe a cinema etc.Dave at Home's post is spot on and if he ever wanted to become an independant councillor he would win without doubt.Logical thinking which is not the Council's forte.Labour/Tory very little difference.Liberals/
Greens would make the city worse.So an independant party is needed desperately maybe headed by Dave at Home.

Build a football stadium on the site. Apparently 74% of the residents of Brighton & Hove want one but 0% of the residents of Falmer do.

jack reagan wrote:
no doubt this will go the same way as The West Pier, Blackrock, I360 (which will never be built), The Stad du Falmer (which will never be built), Park and ride etc etc Brighton& HOve have a great tradition of not doing things and /or letting them rot. I have a name for it - The Lockwood effect after DR Geoff Lockwood the hapless West Pier trust chair, whose under his stewardship the West pier is what it is today. Harsh but true

Jack, i360 not being built, I'm glad to say you are completely WRONG, didn't you see the pictures & article in the Argus a couple of weeks back of the approx 600 (or was it 900) tonnes of steel being rolled at a steel mill in Holland, for the sections of the central column of the i360? Obviously not, the i360 is being built and soon! Hurrah!

oh,and here's the link to the article..

http://www.theargus.
co.uk/search/3782372
.Work_starts_on_i360
_tower___in_Holland/