What do people really think about parking in Brighton? (From The Argus)

Last Question: How can we, B&H Council, squeeze as much as possible out of car owners?

RIPOFF

just out of interest are B+H council going to start Park and ride from Crawley ? and from Folkestone and perhaps Portsmouth?? because thats the way things are going we will only be able to park in them places as there will be NO free Parking in Brighton or Hove and it will be cheaper than paying the Parking charges here!! also I( am very surprised that homeowners with a drive way have not been given an extra charge on their council tax for being able to park a vehicle on their own land!! FORGOT Its only the POOR and Disabled car owners they want to ATTACK!!

Just got my renewal reminder through and at £120 it does beg the question as to why some parts of Brighton pay this and others get to park for free?

I haven't parked in Brighton city centre for about a year due to cost. It used to be £1.70 for two hours, which I was OK with, but not when they nearly doubled the charge.

The other day, I needed to get to Brighton urgently, I drove to trhe Church Street car park - £4 for an hour!!!! I realised myt need wasn't so urgent, after all.

I still visit the city centre, but either park in a road in Hove where it is still free, and walk in, or get the train.

I'm happy to pay for parking, but REASONABLE prices - Crawley, £1 for two hours or £2 for three, or Eastbourne, £2.60 when I was there in the spring.

As a frequent visiter, it seems Madeira drive is badly marked out for parking. It's a wide road, and many more spaces could be created. Seafront charges are too expensive. I would not pay more than £5 to park all day and I doubt many other visiters would either. As for the residential streets, my sympathies to all motorists that live in and have to drive around Brighton and Hove and need a car.

Outrageous that they can pay £25,000 of our money to outside consultants. How does this country allow this to happen?

This survey will be pointless to say the least. The results will be presented in any way they want them to be & the questions will prevent local council tax payers from saying what they really think

In fact - why am I even wasting my brain power thinking about this

Parking charges are seen by the council as an important stream of income. But resident parking schemes have not worked. They have pushed the problem elsewhere and the council have seized on this to charge more people to park outside their home rather than provide more and batter parking. Charges are punitive and have put off visitors to the city. They also take money directly out of the local economy as every pound spent on parking is not available to be spent on local goods and services. More secure parking is also needed for cyclists and motorcyclists. A truly Green council would not have proposed cutting so many bus routes either.

What do people really think? It stinks to high heaven.Cost, availability and alternatives are all major issues for both residents and visitors and rather than simply top-up the coffers by increasing charges (whilst restricting available spaces) the Council should be reinvesting the money into affordable and available parking scheme(s).

Councils should not be allowed to profit from on street parking. If this simple change happened then things would be very different...

Suddenly residents permits would fall from £100 plus to free or token levels. Once that happened would the residents parking zones keep expanding across the city? No, they would stop and probably contract...

I visited Brighton this weekend for the first time since moving away some years ago. I stayed in Eastbourne, parking was free courtesy of the Hotel. I am amazed how expensive parking is in Brighton and why there were no park and ride schemes or if there are they are so badly publicised. Brighton wishes I presume to attract visitors yet does everything in its power to dissuade them from visiting. I spoke to a good number of people in Eastbourne who were in the Hotel ALL of them without question said they thought Brighton was awful and that Parking charges put them off staying there or even visiting for any length of time. OK you have a strong Green party council who we all know hate the car, but cars are a necessary evil stop penalising people who have no choice but to use them and provide sensible parking at a reasonable price £8.00 for 2 hours is a con.

You seem to have an excellent bus service so low cost out of town park and rides would seem to be a logical and sensible option. Get real Brighton Council or yo will kill your City.

Whilst understandable that a council will look for revenue streams, given the fact that parking income can only be spent on road related activity it is of very narrow benefit to the City's citizens. Add to this the clear detriment the super inflated charges has to our tourist driven economy.

Why do I pay £120 for a permit?? It costs £20 in Eastbourne and £25 in Worthing!
BHCC made over £7.5 million in profit from parking charge. What was the money spent on?:
-dropped kerbs
-cycle route signage
-"travel plans" (?) for schools
-"walking networks (?)"
-traffic control inprovements (really?)
-Old Shoreham road...

At a time when public finances are strained and real incomes are dwindling, is this really the best reallocation of resources?

I just hope someone campaigns properly on this theme for the next elections, surely any savvy politician must relaise there are votes to be had, mine included!

Church st car park £4.00 per hour is a total rip off.What have you done to Brighton.The word has spread around the UK and everyone seems to be blaming our Green party and saying they hope no one votes for them in their own towns.Incidently are caravans/campers allowed to park free anywhere in Brighton?Maybe thats the answer.

twenty five thousand pounds of residents hard earnt money!!!! ? spent on a total waste of time survey ... shame on the greens at times like these when most households are struggling to make ends meet ... another nail in there coffin how did we ever get saddled with these fruitcakes

I'm an out-of-towner who loves to park my 4x4 in Brighton within inches of my destination but has decided not to because of the cost.

Could the people of Brighton just close a few childrens homes and cut some services to the disabled so that I can save a quid or two? Thanks!

I know you don't often hear a pro-Green view on these comment areas but I'd like the thank the council for their stance on traffic. Most of the people I know say they're doing a great job but (defying a reactionary perception) maybe they're out at work, too busy to comment here.

If all the people moaning here could come up with actual solutions to the problems we face of dangerous levels of pollutants in the city then great. I don't think some anti-Green hot air is going to help for now though.

If we make it easier and cheaper for out-of-towners to drive their cars into the centre of Brighton we also have to be prepared for our elderly and children to get more ill. The Greens have made their choice about who's more important.

Would these questionnaires be sent out using the postal service which, as we have seen recently, is happy to leave undelivered mail unattended in the street or rotting in delivery offices for weeks at a time?

A tip for BHCC. Don't bother- just ask your own staff what people have communicated to them informally, and act on those comments. Or just use divining twigs or tarot cards, because by the time this data has been "processed" the conclusions will be about as valid.

Get rid of the colleges, then the students so the proper Brighton and Hove residents can elect the council they want

The city should be 2 zones, inner city zone with restrictions from 9 - 6.30 with pay and displays, and free parking and permits for eco cars. permit parking allowed anywhere within the zone.
An outer city zone inclusive of some parks etc with soft touch scheme restrictions from 10 - 11 and 4 - 5 with pay and displays, and free parking and permits for eco cars. permit parking allowed anywhere within the zone. An all day rate for pay and display could be purchased from the machine, and each home should receive allocated visitors tickets free.
Motorbikes should be allowed to use bus lanes as in london and cars can use them at off peak times too.
ALL SORTED where can I get my fee?.

bug eye wrote:
The city should be 2 zones, inner city zone with restrictions from 9 - 6.30 with pay and displays, and free parking and permits for eco cars. permit parking allowed anywhere within the zone. An outer city zone inclusive of some parks etc with soft touch scheme restrictions from 10 - 11 and 4 - 5 with pay and displays, and free parking and permits for eco cars. permit parking allowed anywhere within the zone. An all day rate for pay and display could be purchased from the machine, and each home should receive allocated visitors tickets free. Motorbikes should be allowed to use bus lanes as in london and cars can use them at off peak times too. ALL SORTED where can I get my fee?.

Sounds a great idea. Lower admin costs, flexible, fair, identifies eco vehicles and captures the main reasons for parking controls - which is not to make money. On top of this there should be more attention paid to illegal/bad parking ie locations such as Western Road/Preston street/bus lanes. More and flexible parking equals less cars driving around looking for parking and causing pollution. Balance the policy more fairly between managing the parking effectively, not looking like its treated as a cash cow and enforce genuine illegal parking controls.

Parking is getting ridiculous in the city centre as well as the bus fare to reach town. I parked up in Kemp Town last night as i was heading to an event and thought taking the car would be cheaper in terms of parking than bus fare. To which i was absolutley disgusted to find out that the council are charging £6 to park up a side street next to St James' Street for 2 hours and £10 for 4 hours. What makes me laugh is they are trying to make money out of the tourists that come to the city by hiking up the parking prices but what about the people who live in the city? And don't all car owners pay enough in car tax, insurance, petrol and all the other costs that come with owning a car. The council just take the mick out of the hardworking residents of Brighton and Hove and the council need to get their priorities right by putting the prices down to attract more people and make more money.

AGT999 wrote:
Get rid of the colleges, then the students so the proper Brighton and Hove residents can elect the council they want

I am afraid it is all a little too late for that, we cannot put the genie back in the Bottle...... We will look back on these desperate days as the 'Good Times'

If the Council are true to their 'green' ideals, then surely most, if not all, revenue raised through parking charges and parking fines, should go into subsidising Park & Ride schemes and local bus services, but alas, Brighton and Hove Bus were able to increase their charges by 25% in April with more increases coming into force on Sunday.

It’s the same situation with the railways: introduce the congestion charge and inflated parking charges to stop people driving to London, but then continue to allow the Train Operating Companies to annually increase fares by as much as 11.2%!

It’s ridiculous to price people out of their cars but simultaneously price people off public transport!

As much as I appreciate that reducing car usage on the whole is an important issue, I also appreciate that this is the modern world - cars are a necessity and are here to stay. The council can’t just have a ‘we hate cars’ policy and not implement alternative, affordable transport systems that function around the reality of living and working in a modern city

Looking at the headline, my answer would be, I would rather not!

What a load of rubbish people talk. As a former car owner (it was written off) I can appreciate that it is nice to be able to park easily and for free. However, most of the comments above seem to have been written by morons!

What part of this do you people not understand? THERE ARE TOO MANY CARS AND NOT ENOUGH SPACES! Almost no one seems prepared to think about the issue beyond their own selfish desires.

Parking permits cost £120.00 to pay for the cost of parking attendants. Without them there is no point in having any parking restrictions. The 'profit' from parking mainly comes from meters and penalty charges. It is all reinvested, by law, into further transport schemes, e.g realtime bus displays, traffic management schemes etc. How many of you have read the annual parking report before pronouncing on all manner of parking issues?

There are not enough spaces for the number of cars that want to park in them. Until supply out strips demand then prices will continue to rise- if people will pay £20.00 per hour to park, why charge £10.00? If you don't like it, get rid of your car! And not everyone claiming their car is essential is telling the truth- like the people who live in Hove and claim they need a car to go shopping in Brighton.

It is not a right to be able to park easily and cheaply outside your house, and all the other motoring costs do not entitle motorists to free parking. The streets belong to everyone, they are not paid for out of the fictional 'road tax'.

Theobald is obviously hoping the rabid parking lobby have short memories- both Labour and Conservatives have extended controlled parking zones in their time and raised parking fees. The Greens are doing exactly the same. It has always been greeted with hysteria, regardless of who is in power, so this is not a Green party issue at all.

P.S. Please stop quoting Steve Percy! He is one man with an opinion, and has no more authority than any other person to comment on parking issues.

Fercri Sakes wrote:
I know you don't often hear a pro-Green view on these comment areas but I'd like the thank the council for their stance on traffic. Most of the people I know say they're doing a great job but (defying a reactionary perception) maybe they're out at work, too busy to comment here.

If all the people moaning here could come up with actual solutions to the problems we face of dangerous levels of pollutants in the city then great. I don't think some anti-Green hot air is going to help for now though.

If we make it easier and cheaper for out-of-towners to drive their cars into the centre of Brighton we also have to be prepared for our elderly and children to get more ill. The Greens have made their choice about who's more important.

We seem to have lots of empty parking spaces around the city with people not parking in them. Yet the roads don't seem to be quieter - they are as busy as ever, if not more so. What's going on?

I don't see pollution levels falling unless car usage falls. But getting car drivers to drive past empty spaces and hunt out others at a reasonable price (or give up and go) creates more pollution and traffic, not less. Judging by the way that the roads are still packed makes me think that parking charge increases have not helped reduce car usage, I suspect that they have INCREASED car usage hunting for alternatives (or dropping family members off, driving back to cheaper parking areas and then the driver travelling back. And this travel back can be by taxi - I've seen ads from a taxi company to do just this for tourists!)

So reducing pollution is good. But increasing traffic charges is not the way to do this. If the greens meant to do this then surely some signs as people entering the city showing cheaper parking and less congested routes would be the way to do this. Has this happened, no....

I wish that the green council had implemented some effective changes that would last as benefits. Instead they have gone for extreme policies that are unpopular, very poorly thought through, not communicated and, to cap it off, don't seem to work! Caroline Lucas must be worried - the backlash against the council is likely to cost her seat too.....

NickBtn wrote:

Fercri Sakes wrote: I know you don't often hear a pro-Green view on these comment areas but I'd like the thank the council for their stance on traffic. Most of the people I know say they're doing a great job but (defying a reactionary perception) maybe they're out at work, too busy to comment here. If all the people moaning here could come up with actual solutions to the problems we face of dangerous levels of pollutants in the city then great. I don't think some anti-Green hot air is going to help for now though. If we make it easier and cheaper for out-of-towners to drive their cars into the centre of Brighton we also have to be prepared for our elderly and children to get more ill. The Greens have made their choice about who's more important.

We seem to have lots of empty parking spaces around the city with people not parking in them. Yet the roads don't seem to be quieter - they are as busy as ever, if not more so. What's going on? I don't see pollution levels falling unless car usage falls. But getting car drivers to drive past empty spaces and hunt out others at a reasonable price (or give up and go) creates more pollution and traffic, not less. Judging by the way that the roads are still packed makes me think that parking charge increases have not helped reduce car usage, I suspect that they have INCREASED car usage hunting for alternatives (or dropping family members off, driving back to cheaper parking areas and then the driver travelling back. And this travel back can be by taxi - I've seen ads from a taxi company to do just this for tourists!) So reducing pollution is good. But increasing traffic charges is not the way to do this. If the greens meant to do this then surely some signs as people entering the city showing cheaper parking and less congested routes would be the way to do this. Has this happened, no.... I wish that the green council had implemented some effective changes that would last as benefits. Instead they have gone for extreme policies that are unpopular, very poorly thought through, not communicated and, to cap it off, don't seem to work! Caroline Lucas must be worried - the backlash against the council is likely to cost her seat too.....

Hmm, where are all these empty spaces then?! Apart from during the working day, or in places where a parking zone has just been introduced, I was under the impression that most areas were packed with cars. Hence the introduction, and expansion of, controlled parking zones.

You have raised an interesting point though, and one that is the crux of this matter- what effect does an increase in parking charges have? There is only anecdotal evidence so far- we need some actual facts about whether or not it has an impact on visitors etc. Not the rabid foaming at the mouth based on nothing more than hatred for whichever party is in power that mainly seems to characterise debate on this issue.

The survey they sent out was a joke. Why do they ask if you have had gender reassignment survey to fill in this form. Do people with sex changes need to have their responses analysed differently? Parking in Brighton is an over-priced disgrace and is killing businesses and trade in the city in difficult times. As for more bike parking who in their right mind would leave a working bike in a bike park in Brighton. My bike worth £50 with a £50 bike lock survived 2 hours on a lamp post in Sackville Road before it was stolen.

THE WORD IS OUT.....from todays Economist
The Greens in Brighton



The city by the sea dislikes cars and buildings,

BRIGHTON has long been a refuge for the unconventional. George IV, when a rotund prince, liked to gallivant with mistresses there. In “Brighton Rock”, Graham Greene depicted it as a hedonistic hell. Jason Kitcat, the council leader, describes it simply as a place where people are free to be who they want. Outside a hair salon, men in frocks swig cider in celebration of Gay Pride.

In 2010 Brighton elected Britain’s first Green Party MP. Since 2011 the party has run the council with a minority. Most non-drivers seem indifferent to them. Russ Coe, a barman who studied environmental politics (a combination of roles perhaps distinct to Brighton) says he has not noticed much of a difference. That may be because so many politicians have been influenced by the city’s culture. All parties are committed to making the city greener.

Motorists make a fuss, though. Facing a squeezed budget, the Greens have hiked parking fees, with traders’ permits nearly doubling to £600 ($950) a year. A local newspaper reports that the city makes more money from parking than any local authority outside London. A survey by Aviva, an insurance company, voted the Churchill Square car park as the third worst in Britain. At another car park, motorists staying more than four hours must pay £25.
Mr Kitcat, a Green, says parking fees have been simplified and the higher charges have eliminated a waiting list for permits. But traders are furious. Geoffrey Theobald, leader of the council’s Tory group, claims that the council will take in less cash because fewer people will park in Brighton.

Building is even more painful than parking. Colin Brace, a developer of eco-friendly property, hopes to build a block of flats, with small wind turbines attached, on the seafront. He opened negotiations with the planning department in mid-2006. Construction work has still not started. He blames complex planning criteria, all open to interpretation. Architects must protect the character of the area as well as making buildings sustainable.

Students provide much of the Green vote, reckons Lord Bassam, a Brighton Labour peer. He thinks voters will turn against the Greens when they discover the full extent of the council’s cuts.

How can it be justified that anyone who doesn't contribute through Council tax gets a vote?

Complete nonsense!

£4 for 2 hours in London Road car park on a Saturday - LOADS of empty space in there - wonder why?

The shops in this area DESPERATELY need trade yet if I'm faced with a choice of this or free parking at Asda/Argos etc then they will win.

Its all very well people clamouring about the difficulties of parking and driving in Brighton but they should really step back and just look at how many cars there are in what is essentially a confined space, restricted between the sea and the south downs. The things are everywhere, stuffed into every available corner, sat in long queues going nowhere fast, unable to park, being badly driven and to be honest making a nuisance of themselves everywhere you see them. Traffic is stressful, either being stuck in it or just looking at it winds me up, a load of sheep in long lines, the lowest common denominator. You have to ask yourselves, is it really worth it? The cost, the stress, the amount of time and fuel it takes to travel 2 or 3 miles? The queues, the tax, the parking charges and all the rest of it, hardly adds up to a tool that was meant to make life easier. Plain and simple, there are too many of the things and making it any cheaper to use them in Brighton will only encourage more of them to pile in and make it even worse. I worked this out a long time ago and I will only use mine if absolutely necessary and I wouldn't dream of trying to take it anywhere near the city centre unless I have to carry something heavy. Keep using your cars and keep getting milked, you deserve it for your lack of imagination. My motorbike doesn't get involved in traffic jams, uses about a third of the time and petrol that my car does, costs nothing to park anywhere I like and very little to tax and insure. Habitual urban motorists, keep banging your heads against the wall, like the dull witted migratory herds that you are but don't keep bleating about being eaten by crocodiles. You're at the bottom of the food chain, deal with it.

taman wrote:
THE WORD IS OUT.....from todays Economist The Greens in Brighton The city by the sea dislikes cars and buildings, BRIGHTON has long been a refuge for the unconventional. George IV, when a rotund prince, liked to gallivant with mistresses there. In “Brighton Rock”, Graham Greene depicted it as a hedonistic hell. Jason Kitcat, the council leader, describes it simply as a place where people are free to be who they want. Outside a hair salon, men in frocks swig cider in celebration of Gay Pride. In 2010 Brighton elected Britain’s first Green Party MP. Since 2011 the party has run the council with a minority. Most non-drivers seem indifferent to them. Russ Coe, a barman who studied environmental politics (a combination of roles perhaps distinct to Brighton) says he has not noticed much of a difference. That may be because so many politicians have been influenced by the city’s culture. All parties are committed to making the city greener. Motorists make a fuss, though. Facing a squeezed budget, the Greens have hiked parking fees, with traders’ permits nearly doubling to £600 ($950) a year. A local newspaper reports that the city makes more money from parking than any local authority outside London. A survey by Aviva, an insurance company, voted the Churchill Square car park as the third worst in Britain. At another car park, motorists staying more than four hours must pay £25. Mr Kitcat, a Green, says parking fees have been simplified and the higher charges have eliminated a waiting list for permits. But traders are furious. Geoffrey Theobald, leader of the council’s Tory group, claims that the council will take in less cash because fewer people will park in Brighton. Building is even more painful than parking. Colin Brace, a developer of eco-friendly property, hopes to build a block of flats, with small wind turbines attached, on the seafront. He opened negotiations with the planning department in mid-2006. Construction work has still not started. He blames complex planning criteria, all open to interpretation. Architects must protect the character of the area as well as making buildings sustainable. Students provide much of the Green vote, reckons Lord Bassam, a Brighton Labour peer. He thinks voters will turn against the Greens when they discover the full extent of the council’s cuts.

I liked this. Really good, posted like it adds some gravitas to the knocking the Greens whilst saying nothing new badly. Even better when today's economist website has a number of articles about cycling, which is being promoted far better than by previous administrations despite budget restrictions.

I particularly like Lord Bassam's comments about students. If it is true (didn't see many out with me on the doors in the election) then Labour and the Tories are sunk because they won't be voting for you! Labour and the Conservatives are parties with no vision or not ones that would appeal to ordinary people. Lord Bassam of course failed to mention that Labour joined with their allies the Conservatives to stop a small council tax increase that would have headed off most of the cuts.

I think that some of the parking fees should be reviewed but as for parking zones, it seems to me that it is local car owners that support them in the first place.

I would say Roger French, NCP Ltd (now NSL) and the council have a lot to answer for.

johnthomas wrote:
Outrageous that they can pay £25,000 of our money to outside consultants. How does this country allow this to happen?

This survey will be pointless to say the least. The results will be presented in any way they want them to be & the questions will prevent local council tax payers from saying what they really think

In fact - why am I even wasting my brain power thinking about this

The country doesn't allow it. We, the voters do, when we elect our local council officials. Hands up who voted for the Green party?

The lying b@stards claim NOT to raise taxes etc but charge you £160 to park somewhere near to your home after engineering it so that people need a resident parking scheme to stop displaced parking blocking all the available spaces.
Has anyone seen the promised increase in cheap sustainable transport?

Lewesroadresident wrote:
What a load of rubbish people talk. As a former car owner (it was written off) I can appreciate that it is nice to be able to park easily and for free. However, most of the comments above seem to have been written by morons! What part of this do you people not understand? THERE ARE TOO MANY CARS AND NOT ENOUGH SPACES! Almost no one seems prepared to think about the issue beyond their own selfish desires. Parking permits cost £120.00 to pay for the cost of parking attendants. Without them there is no point in having any parking restrictions. The 'profit' from parking mainly comes from meters and penalty charges. It is all reinvested, by law, into further transport schemes, e.g realtime bus displays, traffic management schemes etc. How many of you have read the annual parking report before pronouncing on all manner of parking issues? There are not enough spaces for the number of cars that want to park in them. Until supply out strips demand then prices will continue to rise- if people will pay £20.00 per hour to park, why charge £10.00? If you don't like it, get rid of your car! And not everyone claiming their car is essential is telling the truth- like the people who live in Hove and claim they need a car to go shopping in Brighton. It is not a right to be able to park easily and cheaply outside your house, and all the other motoring costs do not entitle motorists to free parking. The streets belong to everyone, they are not paid for out of the fictional 'road tax'. Theobald is obviously hoping the rabid parking lobby have short memories- both Labour and Conservatives have extended controlled parking zones in their time and raised parking fees. The Greens are doing exactly the same. It has always been greeted with hysteria, regardless of who is in power, so this is not a Green party issue at all. P.S. Please stop quoting Steve Percy! He is one man with an opinion, and has no more authority than any other person to comment on parking issues.

At last, some clarity on the issue! If the right-wing, petrol-headed, anti-green nutjobs just shut their mouths and availed themselves of the FACTS for five minutes, we could start to have a sensible debate. People talk as if it was just one big free-for-all until the greens got in!!?? It wasn't. Successive councils have been squeezing motorists in B&H for years now. And with good reason! There are far too many cars on the roads. But try having a sensible conversation with your average, reationary Tory, with only their own selfish interests in mind, and you'll be trying for a long time...