'We don't want any more Sainsbury's stores', say Brighton campaigners (From The Argus)

Yes but some residents DO want a new Sainsburys. The council can't give precedence to the opinion of anti-Sainsburys campaigners just because they shout louder.

It could be that a majority of people don't want another supermarket (although Taj was a supermarket anyway), or it could just be a vocal minority. They should hold a proper consultation if they really want to know what local residents think.

What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

It would live and die by how many people shop in it. If they are allowed to open it and it makes a profit in its own right then that must mean the public have voted with their feet and wallets. If it doesn't they will shut it again soon.

We can't force the site to be taken by florists, etc, the business rates on that building must be massive.

We still have North Laine for our quirky and interesting shops. We can keep that quarter financially viable, as a good thing for the City as a whole.

Whether we should subsidise small local businesses elsewhere in the City or not is a moot point. Many of us like a "local shop" and agree with the principle, and would like to support the "local shopkeeper". But we know the honest truth, you go somewhere where you get a can of baked beans 50p cheaper. Practical v Ideal. I would also add many of the seamingly "local" shops are often part of local family chains.

If Sainsbury think it makes sense to have another store there, it means people will probably shop there. If you hate it don't shop there.

In this instance the "usage" hasn't changed (Taj-Sainsbury), so I would suggest it doesn't matter too much personally.

I have no problem wiith Sainsbury or any supermarket. Dont stop them in my name. They improve an area - unlike some of the other ideas. Brighton will never be a clone town - but if we can solve issues like beggars, street sleepers, protestors and students we may have a chance !

Yes, lets have more shops selling expensive handmade cards and candles. Just what we need to keep Brighton unique.

Ensure the shop fits in to the character of the area with planning laws then let market forces decide.

Don't get me wrong the 1421 who signed the petition should have a voice but that voice shoukd not be enough to usurp what the majority MAY want.

A vocal minority should not always have the right to think they are right just because the silent majority have said nothing.

Since this is a matter of local interest it would interesting to see how many of 1421 signatories live anywhere near the proposed store they are objecting to?

Perhaps these people who object to a supermarket would be better directing their energies to issues that really matter to the local community-unemployme
nt,homelessness for instance-neither of which could be said to be the fault of Sainsburys....

I for one living in Littlehampton would not object to another supermarket moving into my area!!!

Sainsburys and Tesco would fail if people didn't like them, its as simple as that.

State control of the market is not a good idea. The Chinese and Russians have come to the same conclusion.

I do hope they will be allowed to open a store at the old Caffyn's site near Preston Drove / London Road junction. At the moment in our Preston Park/Fiveways neighbourhood, if we need to do a shop, we can only chose to shop at a VERY small Co-op or else have to drive to the centre of Brighton or the Asda site in Hollingdean. It would be good to have a choice, and one within walking distance as well!

Sainsburys stores are good, I am happy for another to open. Anything to hack Caroline Lucas!

chipmunk77 wrote:
What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

"The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue."

As you are undaoubtedly an expert, would you care to tell us where these unique North and South Laines are?

chipmunk77 wrote:
What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

I note that you seem to have an opinion on everything. I also note that your`re `anti-anties`. Your`re obviuosly not Brighton born or bred or you would`nt come out with such nonsense as " the Laines (North & South)"which, for elucidation, is a marketing ploy invented by estate agents to harmonise their marketing. It could also of course have been created by Brightonians, so as to allow them to spot newbie pretentious counts(sp) who pontificate their right wing rhetoric in our Green and gay friendly muticultural city. But i digress, to sum up I certainly don`t need a national chain setting up in a prime location when the alternative could, with a little bit of encouragment from the council, be so much more attractive.

dawind wrote:

chipmunk77 wrote:
What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

I note that you seem to have an opinion on everything. I also note that your`re `anti-anties`. Your`re obviuosly not Brighton born or bred or you would`nt come out with such nonsense as " the Laines (North & South)"which, for elucidation, is a marketing ploy invented by estate agents to harmonise their marketing. It could also of course have been created by Brightonians, so as to allow them to spot newbie pretentious counts(sp) who pontificate their right wing rhetoric in our Green and gay friendly muticultural city. But i digress, to sum up I certainly don`t need a national chain setting up in a prime location when the alternative could, with a little bit of encouragment from the council, be so much more attractive.

You don't but given the general success of Sainsburys elsewhere if seems others do. It's the free market and democracy at work. You might not like it but the alternative is much worse.

BTW, to save you making embarrassing assumptions I am not only Brighton born and bred but have an independent high street business in the town too.

dawind wrote:

chipmunk77 wrote:
What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

I note that you seem to have an opinion on everything. I also note that your`re `anti-anties`. Your`re obviuosly not Brighton born or bred or you would`nt come out with such nonsense as " the Laines (North & South)"which, for elucidation, is a marketing ploy invented by estate agents to harmonise their marketing. It could also of course have been created by Brightonians, so as to allow them to spot newbie pretentious counts(sp) who pontificate their right wing rhetoric in our Green and gay friendly muticultural city. But i digress, to sum up I certainly don`t need a national chain setting up in a prime location when the alternative could, with a little bit of encouragment from the council, be so much more attractive.

...and you have a strange apostrophe on your computer....

tengri wrote:

dawind wrote:

chipmunk77 wrote:
What great support, 1,421 people out of around 250,000 in Brighton & Hove, or just over 0.5% of the population, no doubt a significant portion of them being the anti-anything ( just add fox hunting, Capitalism, Barclays, McDonalds, Top Shop, Philip Green, Government Cuts) mob that will sign anything because that's all they do, aprt from when they are all blacked up with balaclavas and spraying paint on shops etc etc.

I personally don't mind if another supermarket opens in the old Taj store, it provides jobs, this rubbish they come out with about the unique character of an area, WHAT UTTER ROT, St James Street is a stinky hole in most part with a few great exceptions.

The area that makes Brighton UNIQUE is the Laines (North & South) which are chock-a-block full of small unique shops and long may it continue.

These people should get behind businesses and welcome them to an area, not have a hissy fit just because it doesn't fit in with their particular brand of commercialism.

I note that you seem to have an opinion on everything. I also note that your`re `anti-anties`. Your`re obviuosly not Brighton born or bred or you would`nt come out with such nonsense as " the Laines (North & South)"which, for elucidation, is a marketing ploy invented by estate agents to harmonise their marketing. It could also of course have been created by Brightonians, so as to allow them to spot newbie pretentious counts(sp) who pontificate their right wing rhetoric in our Green and gay friendly muticultural city. But i digress, to sum up I certainly don`t need a national chain setting up in a prime location when the alternative could, with a little bit of encouragment from the council, be so much more attractive.

You don't but given the general success of Sainsburys elsewhere if seems others do. It's the free market and democracy at work. You might not like it but the alternative is much worse.

BTW, to save you making embarrassing assumptions I am not only Brighton born and bred but have an independent high street business in the town too.

Your mention of "the success" of Sainsburys baffles me. It certainly doesn`t feel like success if your`re an independent butcher, baker or candlestickmaker. However if you were a shareholder you wouldn`t give two figs to the destruction of family run firms who spend their cash in the locality of their business. So the term "success" is relative. As to making "embarrassing assumptions" you state; "It's the free market and democracy at work. You might not like it..."
Enough said!
You then continue "but the alternive is much worse." What a strange embarrassing assumption to make. Do you truly believe that unaccountable private power, which is under no public control, what they call minimizing the state and transferring the decision making to unaccountable private interests which, of course, is not helpful to human beings or to democracy or, for that matter, to the markets; is better than building constructive alternitives.

The control is that if the shop does not provide what the customer want it will fail. The alternative is state control. No thanks.

Four chains in that street, so if it was still Taj then it would STILL be four chains in that street. Will you print a headline that says the majority of Brighton residents say they don't want any more 'campaigners' claiming to know what Brighton wants?

Don't people think there are ENOUGH supermarket shops down James Street. There's Sainsbury's all over the place as well. I want a shop where I can buy alternative food such as ethnic food, decent veggi food (i'm not a veggi btw) etc etc things I can't buy from the shop TWO MINUTES further up the street. People are slagging off independant shops before anyone even has a chance to start one up!!! If you like the idea of clone town and surrounded by big chain shops why the hell are you living here! Go and move to Camberley or somewhere like that.

There was....Taj....it failed. There are plenty of other choices available, the other Taj is still going. If there is a market to support them they will thrive. Shops don't exist to make you happy but to make profit. If they don't they fail, if they do they thrive. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?!

Taj was always busy when I went in there and they closed because of difficulty with the parent company. I do not believe it closed becuase the shop wasn't making profit.

And you don't have to be so patronising.

steveP2009 wrote:
Taj was always busy when I went in there and they closed because of difficulty with the parent company. I do not believe it closed becuase the shop wasn't making profit.

And you don't have to be so patronising.

Because you seem to be struggling with the very basic concept of a free market economy...

Taj expanded too fast. They should have consolidated then expanded. If they were busy then a market exists for their products and a more financially competent competitor will most likely open elsewhere, and will thrive.

I understand the free market....I also have a right to an opinion and a right to express it!

Er...yes. You are expressing it and I haven't suggested you shouldn't.

I'm just saying let the market decide if another Tesco/Sainsburys is needed and not the council. Petitions are great for many things but not for a shop which will soon discover if it is popular or not regardless of any petition.

Nick Brt states that Sainsburys are good. That is as may be, but I, for one, cannot afford their prices. Apart from this, I would like to see more help forthcomoing for small independent local stores to open. I would certainly rather shop in one of these, rather than a large impersonal supermarket.

tengri, Portslade says... "If there is a market to support them they will thrive." How very entrepreneurial. Using that logic The Body Shop was doomed from the off. You make the market, thats called wealth creation, not selling the same old tat which unfortunately seems to be mantra of so many so called "business people."

I totally agree with attempting to create a market if it doesn't exist. In the case of the failed Taj it appears a market exists for their type of product and is ready and waiting for a shop to serve it, run a little better than Taj of course.

What I don't agree with is asking the council to get involved in the free market. If they do then perhaps I can get them to stop any of my competitors expanding rather than actually bother to make an effort myself?

tengri wrote:
I totally agree with attempting to create a market if it doesn't exist. In the case of the failed Taj it appears a market exists for their type of product and is ready and waiting for a shop to serve it, run a little better than Taj of course.

What I don't agree with is asking the council to get involved in the free market. If they do then perhaps I can get them to stop any of my competitors expanding rather than actually bother to make an effort myself?

The Councils` job is to make the city attractive to it`s inhabitants, visitors and businesses alike. If that means giving a helping hand to wealth creation then i`m sure the vast majority of people would support it. If you fear your competitors then you ought to up your game. Its called the free market.

dawind wrote:

tengri wrote:
I totally agree with attempting to create a market if it doesn't exist. In the case of the failed Taj it appears a market exists for their type of product and is ready and waiting for a shop to serve it, run a little better than Taj of course.

What I don't agree with is asking the council to get involved in the free market. If they do then perhaps I can get them to stop any of my competitors expanding rather than actually bother to make an effort myself?

The Councils` job is to make the city attractive to it`s inhabitants, visitors and businesses alike. If that means giving a helping hand to wealth creation then i`m sure the vast majority of people would support it. If you fear your competitors then you ought to up your game. Its called the free market.

Yes I ought to up my game and not ask the council to stop competitors from opening.... Sorry I thought it was a fairly obvious rhetorical question, maybe I have to go back to being patronising again.

The suggestion is to get the council to ask Sainsburys not to come to Brighton any more. Since Sainsburys provides jobs and taxes then that must be considered the opposite of wealth creation.

People are just too **** lazy these days. There are more than enough supermarkets in this city. People don't seem to want to go even a tiny distance in order to get the products they love oh so much. It's ridiculous really.

If there's something I really need but can't get it in my immediate surrounds, I'll walk to the other side of the city if I have to. Whereas I see people who regularly drive their cars 500 yards just to buy a pizza or a pint of milk and then drive straight back home again. Madness!

I'm all for free choice etc but anyone with a modicum fo sense would understand that four major supermarket chains in a narrow street that is all of 400 yards long is stupendous.

Sometimes it is only the minority that speak up and make their voices heard because others are too scared to upset the status quo.

1,421 signatures in protest to another Sainsbury's is actually quite a strong voice because it demonstrates the feeling of the people who live in the immediate vicinity.

If people are really dumb enough to think that others, who don't even live anywhere near the proposed site, are going to protest against a store that is not going to effect their immediate surroundings they need the heads examined.

"People are just too **** lazy these days."

Or busy. Whatever the reason the demand is there. There are also lots of organic shops, veggie shops and ethnic shops in Brighton and surrounding areas. There's a new Chinese supermarket open in Southwick of all places and doing well. I can't see the problem to be honest.

Why we can't just let people shop where they want?

Dear tengri, Portslade
I fear you confuse idealogical doctrine with sound business practice. You say that your a High St trader in Brighton. Good for you and the local people you may or may not employ. My point is that Sainsburys` et al act as a leach on the liquidity of the local economy insofar that the money they take is not recycled into the city, it goes elseware. If you as a local trader feel that this is benificial to your business I fear for your future.

More superstores for the civillised thanks and let the left wing layabouts stick to their miserable allotments and back garden veg.

lordenglandofsussex wrote:
More superstores for the civillised thanks and let the left wing layabouts stick to their miserable allotments and back garden veg.

Yet more moronic noise from those who add nothing to the debate. Shut up and grow up cretin, its sometimes better to remain silent and let people think your stupid, than open your mouth and confirm their suspicions.

There are 5 Sainsburys in Brighton and Hove already, and must be at least three superstores already on St james'.. I don't think we really need another one to be honest.

Also, I don't see a problem with the council supporting local businesses, especially during a recession. The reason why local shops prices are so much higher must be because they can't compete with the supermarkets!

Obviously a difference between those who want Sainsburys and those who don't but why use the council veto against Sainsburys when they could help decide the outcome by trying a new approach.
Instead of writing letters et al, why don't the council favour the 1421 protesters plus any others they can rustle up by giving them priority and let them all contribute and effectively subsidise and invest by buying shares in a shop of their choice.
When it opens let the shoppers decide if they want to use it. If its a failure then perhaps it will end all these objections to larger stores, if it's a success then it may encourage others to put their hands in their pockets if they want to continue in the same vein.
Everybody seemingly wants a shop, so let market forces decide but give a little help to the anti's first as I am sure Sainsburys can wait and if necessary invest elsewhere.

All you stuck-up middle-class Little Englanders who don't like Sainsburys - don't shop there. Stick to your little niche shops selling the expensive products you so enjoy and let us, the great unwashed, stick to our common supermarkets.
.
The problem is you're a minority aren't you? There aren't enough rich people in Brighton to keep all the twee little independent shops in business. My heart bleeds.

I think you're missing something Harvey. The people that are campaigning against Sainsburys supermarket aren't likely to be comprised of just the people that shop in the 'twee' independent shops, which incidentally are a big draw for people visiting the city and contribute a great deal to both Brighton's character and economy. I'm not sure why you are ranting against small local businesses? I think people are against Sainsburys for several reasons - some are purely standing up for a bit of diversity in their local area, they want a mix of independent and chain shops, and i can see their point. Others are blatantly anti-capitalist, and have issues with any company that has made it big. I previously made the point that if Taj had achieved the global success and rapid expansion of Sainsburys, then most likely it also would have had many complaints from some of the same people prior to moving into St James st, regardless of its business ethic or range of goods. If you class yourself as a member of the 'great unwashed', i'm guessing that you want cheap products, in which case you'd be better off shopping in Aldi, Lidl, or at the open market, where you will get a lot more food for your money than you do at Sainsburys.

Pound to a penny those wittering on about Sainsbury's are mainly those who cannot afford to shop there.

PC mcgary no452 wrote:
Pound to a penny those wittering on about Sainsbury's are mainly those who cannot afford to shop there.

What a load of rubbish! How can you possibly ascertain that? It's about the fact there are already enough big supermarkets in a very small street.

Any of the 1421 protestors decided to fund the purchase of the lease and accept its responsibility for its run time.
Any sign of a cooperative being formed to fund the purchase and run a business of their choosing
Obviously not a good suggestion.

I say I must agree, what we need are MORE TESCO stores. These are much better value, I would prefer ASDA but they attract the wrong sort of people...you know who you are..... What about some more Morrisons, have you seen how many famous people shop there???????

The council should write ..
"The council’s chief executive has been asked to pen a letter to the supermarket giant to say 1,421 residents do not want another store in the city."

Time the council and Lady Lucas remember the are there to represent the whole community not just small interest groups.

What we need is the Co-op - fair trade products + a stong tradition of starting and supporting the co-operative movement.