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Pubs claim smoking ban costing business
1:17am Thursday 19th July 2007
Comments (113) Have your say »
Pubs are losing thousands of pounds in takings each week since the smoking ban started.
At the Bricklayers Arms in Wool Lane, Midhurst, landlord Paul Blackmun has seen takings slump by around £3,500 per week - the equivalent of more than £180,000 a year.
He has had to cover running costs from his own pocket for the first time since he took the pub over.
Mr Blackmun is working 100-hour weeks to try to cut down on overheads and believes he may have to give up the business.
He said: "In the two years we've been here we've seen trade go up by 80 per cent, but since the beginning of the month we've seen no new people through the doors and our regulars are not coming in as much.
"For example I had one customer who would spend £20 to £30 per day on wine but he won't come in anymore because he can't light up his pipe. People are staying at home instead.
"We had a live music night this week which went really well, but whereas before the ban it would have meant our takings were well up, now it's just put us on an even keel."
Mr Blackmun spent £5,000 on an outside canopy, heating and lights for smoking customers, but has discovered that customers don't drink as much when they sit outside.
An increase in food sales is often cited as one of the benefits of smoke-free pubs, but this has not helped Mr Blackmun. Although the pub does have a restaurant, it seats only 20 people and food sales will never be able to make up for the fall in alcohol sales.
Meanwhile at the Swan Inn in nearby Red Lion Street, Nigel Mansell and his partner Naomi Newman have seen a similar slide in profits.
Nigel estimates his turnover has dropped by £2,000 per week - a fall of more than £100,000 a year.
He said: "The food has been up a bit but we've been really quiet and sometimes we've looked around and it's been completely empty.
"We thought it would be a bit quieter but didn't think it would be this bad.
"We'll manage but the owners might want to sell."
The poor weather has made it even harder for the pub to attract smoking customers because it does not have a smoking shelter.
Mr Mansell said: "We're in a conservation area and the council would not allow us to build anything. We have four benches with umbrellas on the pavement but we're not allowed heating. It's really restricting."
The ban has at least had one positive consequence for Mr Mansell and his partner - they have both kicked their own smoking habit.
What do you think? Do you go to your local less because of the smoking ban? Leave your comments below.
Your Say YourArgus
brighton gaz, brighton says...
6:51am Thu 19 Jul 07
bob, Brighton says...
6:52am Thu 19 Jul 07
graham, bton says...
7:43am Thu 19 Jul 07
Tim, Brighton says...
7:52am Thu 19 Jul 07
mike, mike says...
8:05am Thu 19 Jul 07
Luke, Brighton says...
8:33am Thu 19 Jul 07
Ben Martin, Brighton says...
8:38am Thu 19 Jul 07
bob wrote:Non smokers die too.
How much money will people be spending in pubs when they are dead? Smoking kills, and dead smokers don\'t buy any wine or beer.
D, Brighton says...
8:40am Thu 19 Jul 07
--Competition nights : forget karaoke; try something new - prize to winner at end of the night
--Loyalty cards - regular customers get discounted prices or free pint after 15 bought
--Survey local residents to find out what would make them come more
--Smiley staff there was a time when staff would smile and hold conversations with punters. It's as much to get a grunt nowadays from some people!
--Decent booze get some real ale in!
--Continental style service where staff go around to tables rather than wait for people to approach the bar. People may be enticed to stay for another.
...any more for any more?
Paul, Brighton says...
8:43am Thu 19 Jul 07
It is a PROVEN fact, passive smoking KILLS 100s of non-smokers a year, and forget the drinking does too argument, people have a choice not to drink, you can't choose not to breathe tho!
Thats why I'm glad there is a ban on smoking in pubs/ clubs/ restaurants etc...
Can't people manage without a cigarette for a few hours once or twice a week?
Well done the government, or should that be the EU who introduced a resolution way back in 1989 to ban smoking in publc places/on public transport for all member states, and was enacted in May 2003!!!
Juan, Brighton says...
8:48am Thu 19 Jul 07
Jon, Brighton says...
8:48am Thu 19 Jul 07
As somone who loves a pint and a fag I'm disapointed about the ban but we live in a nanny state and what can be done?
Mrs Freeps, Burgess Hill says...
8:54am Thu 19 Jul 07
Ben Martin wrote: Non smokers die too.
Mrs Freeps, Burgess Hill says...
8:56am Thu 19 Jul 07
Geoff Hurst, Brighton says...
9:18am Thu 19 Jul 07
g/evidence/prologue.
htm
Dave, says...
10:10am Thu 19 Jul 07
Oh, and I won't feel any sympathy for the smokers who have to go outside when it is cold and wet...
barbara gunn, says...
10:26am Thu 19 Jul 07
l gave up smoking years ago and the hardest thing was going for a drink and seeing others in the pub smoking so, l stayed away for a week or so, then l was fine, no better time to give up smoking l say..,give it go, you soon get used to it, it this ban could help you give up smoking for life, if you want! plus you wont reek of smoke when you get home,and, youll have a lot more money for beer too.
A guy l know is so miffed he has threatened to give up drinking!
It will all settle down, its like anything new,a big plus is
l think it will discourage young people from smoking so much so, it will finally go out of fashion in years to come.
Lets put the tobbacco companys out of buisness and do the goverment out of the huge tax put on cigs
Juan? where do you go with your mates and your £200? do you sit in your house smoking all weekend..get a life.
Dave, Woodingdean says...
10:43am Thu 19 Jul 07
Larry Tate, Darren Stevens House says...
11:25am Thu 19 Jul 07
How do you think they will recoup that huge loss?
"and as for Juan from Brighton, £200 a week, are you rich????"
He may well be but that equates to about £65.00 each a week. Are you poor? Oh, sorry, yes, just noticed that you live in Burgess Hill.
Paul, Brighton says...
11:51am Thu 19 Jul 07
For years smokers have had their way and for non smokers we lost any choice as soon as the smoke hit our noses. Life changes and it was inevitable that this would happen as lets face it, its a vile habit that effects everyone nearby. If it didnt then it would still be happening. Take it on the chin and just give up, spend your money on other things and have a great time instead of moaning.
bob, brighton says...
12:06pm Thu 19 Jul 07
A neighbour gave up smoking after her house cat was diagnosed and subsequently died of lung cancer. The cat was in the house all day every day with 1 person who smoked 20 a day. The neighbour had small children that she also smoked around and this brought home the impact this could have. Now think about bar staff who were working probably 7 hours where many people were smoking, a day. I easily smoked 20 whilst on a night out.
Don't spout that arguement of they don't have to work there. Some people cannot get well paid jobs for a variety of reasons. I don't know of anyone who wants to be bar staff when they grow up!
Dennis, Cambs says...
12:33pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Wintertime will be the tester though when the garden isn't an option & even a heated smoking shelter will seem a very unwelcome place.
The law needs to be reviewed to allow smoking in adequately ventilated premises.I can't see the problem in providing a choice of smoking & non smoking facilities.
Bob Bobberson, Hove says...
12:48pm Thu 19 Jul 07
I'm looking forward to returning to the pubs even during the week for a nice meal and plenty of beers.
I'm pretty sure that as people get used to the ban the smokers will return and even more non smokers will take up some good solid regular drinking.
See ya in there!
Ian Hunt, Worthing, Sussex says...
1:00pm Thu 19 Jul 07
I haven't noticed any empty pubs in Worthing.
Go into, or walk pass any of the town centre pubs in Worthing. Daytime or the evening. They look, or are still very busy.
In the daytime. The pubs are full of pensioners. drinking and stuffing their faces.
Friday and Saturday nights. Young people stand in long que's outside waiting to enter the pubs. As they have for the last 10 years.
People and business will adapt, to the no smoking policy, given time.
Thank you
Ian Hunt
Barney, Winchester says...
1:07pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Bouncy & Pert, Boobville says...
1:18pm Thu 19 Jul 07
D wrote:Topless bar staff. (No saggy merchants though, they make the beer go flat)
Hmm, other ideas to draw in customers: --Competition nights : forget karaoke; try something new - prize to winner at end of the night --Loyalty cards - regular customers get discounted prices or free pint after 15 bought --Survey local residents to find out what would make them come more --Smiley staff there was a time when staff would smile and hold conversations with punters. It's as much to get a grunt nowadays from some people! --Decent booze get some real ale in! --Continental style service where staff go around to tables rather than wait for people to approach the bar. People may be enticed to stay for another. ...any more for any more?
Clean toilets is another one (you been to Fiddlers Elbow)
Rob Whittle, says...
2:09pm Thu 19 Jul 07
One Legged Man, Recovery says...
2:29pm Thu 19 Jul 07
D McCarthy, Cork, Ireland says...
2:34pm Thu 19 Jul 07
I am intrigued that the majority of people on this thread see no evil and hear no evil when it comes to recognising the damage that this ban will do in England.
In Ireland, three years on, Pub closures are still happening. The figure for closures so far is of the order of 1,300. On a population basis, multiply that by 10. This does not take into account innumerable other business which have been effected/closed permanently.You will not hear a great deal on this, because in both Irish & UK mainstream media, objective, accurate reporting has been stifled from on high to manufacture the delusion of success.
Then there are the other important issues; social isolation, divisions in society, fragmentation of communities and a new intolerance (now evident here, displayed by several posters) of the single largest minority in the country people who happen to smoke.
Many posters here have commented without doing any research on the issue. This is completely irresponsible. A casual scratch of the surface will show that the entire issue is a political one and nothing whatsoever to do with public health. The state is quashing the rights of the largest minority, to champion those of a tiny minority the Antismoking Brigade. Small, dedicated, fascist-like organisations have infiltrated government & society, hijacked public policy and are dictating terms based on a fraudulent premise. This is a very disturbing development in any democracy, and a huge price will be paid for it.
I urge people to examine the facts, look at the big picture, and think for themselves as opposed to merely accepting 'received wisdom'. It is not too late to mobilise against this appalling abuse of political power. Please think big. Your country needs you.
Freedom2choose.co.uk
Kavannagh QC, Chambers says...
2:38pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Rob Whittle wrote:"Prove it. I put it to you Sir that your fact about smoker shelters is frankly b******s."
Pubs shuld be for a range of the public, not fat smoking, pint swilling male minority. What about kids, families, non smokers. Pubs that have constructed smoker shelters outside have seen no loss of business, and have seen a rise from other non smoking customers coming to healthy premises.
The case of Whittle Vs Munster - 1812 The Old Bailey
Tich, York says...
2:55pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Dave wrote:If there was such a market for no-smoking pubs then they would be on every street. It's called market forces. I have not encountered hoards of beer drinking anti-smokers coming in my local. The odd one or two that have ventured in sit quietly in a corner - no general banter with the regulars (the few that are left)- one drink and home to bed.
Aaah, how nice it is to go out and not smell of smoke and have your clothes ruined by inconsiderate smokers.
Oh, and I won\'t feel any sympathy for the smokers who have to go outside when it is cold and wet...
Miserable, antisocial and tight fisted.
freedom2choose.co.uk
Kris, UK says...
3:10pm Thu 19 Jul 07
There is no valid reason for a large proportion of customers to be denied the right of assembly in any of these venues.
At a time when we can land probes on the moons of distant planets our Government believes anti-smoking claptrap about not being able to provide indoor ventilation.
Charlie, UK says...
3:17pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Publicans should rebel and get the ashtrays out after all what are they going to lose, their pubs are already being decimated.
Bill, Brighton says...
3:18pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Alex, Brighton says...
3:23pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Barney wrote:Sorry am i missing something...you moan when people smoke inside, now your moaning because their smoking outside..?? Where exactly do you suggest smokers go??
The problem we have now is that most pubs don't have air-con, or choose to turn it off now there is no smoke to extract, but in the summer they get hot inside the bar, and non-smokers don't want to go outside to the beer gardens which are now too smokey!
Felicity, Swansea says...
3:29pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Luke wrote:Like the Salvation Army or Mother and Toddler groups perhaps?
It's up to pubs to start promoting themselves. A lot of people put off going to the pub due to the smoke need to be encouraged in. Pubs should be promoting themselves as community assets and encouraging different groups of people to meet in them.
Colin, Banff says...
3:30pm Thu 19 Jul 07
You ably demonstrate the fine art of jumping to conclusions with no supporting evidence. Quite apart from your ridiculous theories that SHS kills-it never has, not once, not ever-I can tell you that Mr McCarthy runs a music school. He has nothing to do with the tobacco industry. Neither do I, but dont let that stop you falsely accusing me. Most of the ill-informed anti-smoker Jihadists have not bothered to carry out even token research. If they did, as has been pointed out, they would discover that the second hand smoke myth was born in Germany in the 1930's, it took some time off until 1975, and then the WHO decided to reintroduce the fairy tale. 35 years on and ASH have replaced the Nazi Party, and they continue to spout unsupportable nonsense about SHS.
The truth you know is a lie.
Belinda, Edinburgh says...
3:35pm Thu 19 Jul 07
You are offering only the 'choice' to do what you want. That is no choice.
Tich, York says...
3:42pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Peter C Wilson wrote:... and we're still waking up to the fact that Saddam had WMD's according to you lot and you're worried about a bit of smoke. Do us all a favour and stay at home next time
OUR HOLIDAY TO THE UK WAS SPOILT BY THE SMELL OF CIGARETTE SMOKE AT EVERY HOTEL AND RESTAURANT.IT.S GREAT THAT THEY ARE FINALLY WAKING UP THE FACT THAT CIGARETTE SMOKE IS TOXIC .I LOST BOTH MY PARENTS TO LUNG CANCER
Joel, London says...
4:04pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Don't believe me? Feel free to check the tobacco companies websites where even THEY finally admit how dangerous it is.
Your freedom to smoke does not compare with others freedom from disease.
Squealer, Notts says...
4:06pm Thu 19 Jul 07
graham wrote:I have kids and work hard to pay the bills but I still knew about the ban so I don't really see your point. As for wooing people in by advertising.. advertising WHAT exactly? That pubs are now safe for familys with kids? So when their little darlings stray into a drunken brawl and get seriously injured the parents will say "Thats ok! At least they didnt have to breathe in that nasty smoke".
it'll all come good once people realise they really do miss the pub. On top of that pubs have to do more to woo people who just havent gone into pubs before because it was so smokey. I have yet to see any pub making the most of the opportunity by advertising in such a way. Before anyone says 'oh thats too obvious' remember that most people who didnt visit pubs because it was smokey probably have kids, probably are working hard all day to pay the bills, so make it more obvious to them!
I personally have had my fill of people around me saying "oh great! I can take the kids down the local now because its safe!"
Get real.
CK, Swindn says...
4:12pm Thu 19 Jul 07
As for clothes smelling of tobacco smoke there are such things these days called washing machines! By the sound of it anti-smokers wear the same clothes day in, day out!
Bob from Brighton. What a load of absolute nonsense you spout. You really do need to go and get your head examined.
D McCarthy, Cork, Ireland says...
4:23pm Thu 19 Jul 07
I have witnessed the socio-economic fall-out from ban damage with my own eyes over a three year period. It is, of course Bill, your choice to ignore the decimation I describe and no doubt you will, because it contradicts your position and you dont want to hear it.
Your singular assumption that it is necessary to operate a blanket ban in every place and at all times is what makes this issue one of freedom of choice. It is also precisely that which makes it a fascist law.
Asthma is an unfortunate, but pre-existing condition. Asthmatics have freedom of choice too and are well able to exercise it in fact it is vital that they do. But this law is about neither Asthmatics nor smoking. It is about State Control and social engineering.
Belinda, Edinburgh says...
4:25pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Tim, Brighton says...
4:25pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Arnold, Brighton says...
4:36pm Thu 19 Jul 07
More problems.
Peter E, Wiltshire says...
4:42pm Thu 19 Jul 07
DO YOU SMELL THE FOX - SORRY RAT? Whilst on the subject of smell, Tobacco smoke is accepted as an irritant for some, Guess what, filtration removes it - as well as dust, pollen, skin fragments and other airborne pollutants which are a greater hazard to Asthma (etc) sufferers in particular as well as the general public - frequently commented positively on over the past 7 years by our patrons.
Whatever happened to toleration in this country?
Alan Cook, Hants says...
5:38pm Thu 19 Jul 07
The Goverment imposed this ban without foundation, and its a Dictatorship. At home I can invite friends round, Smoke, Drink and Im saving Money
Bill, Brighton says...
5:45pm Thu 19 Jul 07
And ill-informed anti-smoking jihadists? No false accusations there! Perhaps those who are so certain that there is a wealth of evidence to suggest that passive smoking is harmless could tell me where it can be found online so I can make my own mind up?
And most anti smokers do not want pubs to go out of business!
Val Horne, Wales says...
5:53pm Thu 19 Jul 07
my daughter is helping me write this,as it's the first time i have used a computor.
I feel i want to put my two pennorth worth in on the smoking ban.
I am 72 yrs old and have never smoked in my life.
Half my family are smokers and half non smokers.
I grew up in a house where my father and brothers were heavy smokers.I would like to add that i have never suffered with any chest complaints.
This smoking ban is awful.
Last week the family had a get together in our local,if you can call it a get together
Half the family stood outside(freezing cold)
then us non smokers would wander outside because we were fed up sitting by ourselves---a flipping nightmare!!
Our local does not have patio heaters--nor do they intend to buy any.
All in all an experience we will not be repeating in a hurry.
Val
Alan Cook, Hants says...
6:11pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Have your get togethers at home. If the Pubs/Clubs go bankrupt, it will affect tourism, Businesses. Let the Dictators suffer! The worst is to come
I read on here about Ex Services men in there 80s in a home, disallowedin a home to smoke. Is that what our forefathers fought for at war? Us BabyBoomers are fighting for OUR rights!
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
6:11pm Thu 19 Jul 07
o.uk and follow the various links. But remember when you read the science be careful not to just read the summary, a mistake many make. Remember many of these studies choose to use percentages to Con people. You 25% increased risk is meant to lead you to believe a quarter, it does not in scientific terms it is a 1.25 Relative Risk. 1 is deemed no risk at all a RR of 1.25 is not scientifically significant. A RR of 3+ must be achieved to even start to show a causative association. If you start on the right 'scientific' foot you will find the truth. Google Relative Risk understand and then do the research.
Charlie, UK says...
6:14pm Thu 19 Jul 07
http://193.78.190.20
0/2/7/absence.htm
followed by Enstrom and Kabat the largest study ever done
http://www.scientifi
cintegrityinstitute.
org/defense.html
or these
"In general, there was no elevated lung cancer risk associated with passive smoke exposure in the workplace. ..."
- Brownson et. al.
American Journal of Public Health, November 1992, Vol. 82, No. 11
"... no evidence of an adverse effect of environmental tobacco smoke in the workplace."
- Janerich et al. New England Journal of Medicine, Sept. 6, 1990
"... the association with exposure to passive smoking at work was small and not statistically significant."
- Kalandidi et al.
Cancer Causes and Control, 1, 15-21, 1990
"We did not generally find an increase in CHD risk associated with ETS exposure at work or in other settings."
Steenland et al.
Circulation, Vol. 94, No. 4, August 15, 1996
"... no statistically significant increase in risk associated with exposure to environmental tobacco smoke at work or during social activities...."
- Stockwell et al.
Journal of the National Cancer Institute, 84:1417-1422, 1992
"There was no association between exposure to ETS at the workplace and risk of lung cancer."
Zaridze et al., 1998
International Journal of Cancer, 1998, 75, 335-338
Thats just for starters
Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon says...
6:16pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Chris, was great Britain says...
6:41pm Thu 19 Jul 07
ASH, their creators the Royal College of Physicians and many others earning a living from their hatred of smoking have conned the public and Government and should be held responsible for the many serious downsides of this ban.
Targeting single activities damages overall well-being and happiness which is far more important for life than any single everyday activity.
Live happy and live long.
James, Hove says...
7:21pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Alan Cook, Hants says...
7:34pm Thu 19 Jul 07
Now Pubs are having to fight for survival, and it will be you thats hit next, and gone will be the British Traditional Pub
Peter C Wilson, California says...
3:46am Thu 19 Jul 07