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Smoking ban leads to nuisance noise
7:51pm Tuesday 16th October 2007
Comments (74)The smoking ban and weak licensing controls are transforming a quiet city side road into another rowdy West Street, residents have claimed.
Neighbours in Cheltenham Place in Brighton told The Argus they were fed up with anti-social drinkers creating disturbances outside their homes late into the night.
They said they were bearing the brunt of an experience being suffered by residents across the North Laine district of the city cente.
Magazine publisher Louise McArthur, of Cheltenham Place, said: "It's getting worse and worse. It feels like we are under siege."
The residents say increasing numbers of pubs and bars are pandering to smokers by extending both their outdoor facilities and the hours they can be used.
Smoking inside pubs has been banned since July 1 and as a result drinkers have been congregating outside until late in the evening.
Residents said in the narrow streets of North Laine the noise this is creating is a particular problem.
The issue in Cheltenham Place has been exacerbated with the opening of a new pub, The Fountainhead, on the corner with North Road in April. It has a licence for customers to sit outside until 11pm.
Charity chief executive Debbie Charman, of Cheltenham Place, said: "The noise is constant and goes on late at night. This is such a tiny road it almost feels as though people are inside my house, I can hear them that clearly.
"I moved here because it was in the centre and close to everything but was peaceful. The noise has become so bad I'd consider moving out again."
Brighton and Hove City Councillor Ian Davey, who represents North Laine, said: "This is a problem throughout the area but at Cheltenham Place it has become particularly acute."
The residents fear the situation is set to worsen. The Fountainhead has applied for permission to have shelters and heaters for its outdoor area so it can be used in winter.
And Bill's Produce Store in North Road, which backs on to Cheltenham Place, has applied to extend its licence to sell alcohol and play music indoors from 8pm to 11pm.
Brighton and Hove City Council's licensing panel will decide whether to grant permission at a meeting at Brighton town hall on Friday at 9.30am.
The Basketmakers Arms, on the corner of Gloucester Road at the opposite end of Cheltenham Place to The Fountainhead, has also applied for permission to keep its tables outside until 11pm, instead of the current 8pm.
Miss McArthur said: "We need them to be careful with the licensing otherwise we're in danger of becoming another West Street."
Both the landlord of the Fountainhead and its owners, the Zelgrain group, refused to comment, as did the manager of Bill's Produce Store.
Albert McCausland, the manager of the Basketmakers, said: "We sympathise with the neighbours. We need to keep the tables so we can control the outdoor area properly.
"Otherwise people spread out down the street and the problem gets worse."
A Brighton council spokesman said the local authority had been in touch with ward councillors and North Laine Community Association about the issue.
He said the 2003 Licensing Act allowed licences to be reviewed and people could contact the licensing department if they had concerns.
The spokesman said: "The council is obliged to keep an open mind and would want to hear all sides in any particular situation."
Is your area becoming a nightmare because of the ban on smoking? Leave your comments below.
Your Say YourArgus
I. Fletcher, says...
8:34pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Luke is cool, Brighton - YAY! says...
8:41pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Smoker, Heated patio says...
8:49pm Tue 16 Oct 07
I. Fletcher wrote:Sadly for you(and many like you), I shall be basking in the warm glow of outdoor heaters, thoughtfully provided by realistic publicans and restauranteurs. It would have been much quieter for the locals had we been able to have, lets say, a seperate smoking room/bar on the inside. What do you think?
Big talk from ashtray-gob now but he'll be slapping nicotine patches on come December rather than freeze his b*****ks off outside!!
Tim, brighton says...
9:08pm Tue 16 Oct 07
John, Cyberspace says...
9:09pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Sod global warming. We want to make more money.
I. Fletcher, says...
9:10pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Freegift, Level says...
9:10pm Tue 16 Oct 07
dc, sussex says...
9:24pm Tue 16 Oct 07
i live near a pub and the regulars are outside for some of the night shouting and screaming whilst having a fag.
its opened up a whole new problem. something needs to be done!!
andy nielson, says...
10:08pm Tue 16 Oct 07
bn3, hangolia says...
10:27pm today Tue 16 Oct 07
Anti Fag Hag, says...
10:30pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Stroller, Hove says...
10:40pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Where did Freegift get this idea from? New one on me.
Smoker, Warm & cosy. says...
11:02pm Tue 16 Oct 07
andy nielson wrote:At last! A voice of reason. I have no desire to impose my choices on anyone else (except fellow smokers who would wish to be included). A compromise could(and should) have been made.
Surely it would have made much more sense to have smoking and non smoking establishments. Thanks to nu labour the freedom of choice has been taken away. Mr Orwell was well ahead of his time.
Rastafari, brixton says...
11:17pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Smoker wrote:I think this signals that its now time for stage 2 of the smoking ban plan, which is to ban smoking on the streets or any public place, stage 3 will be a total ban no matter where you are, even in your own home, it will make no difference, we will not let you kill yourself until you get old and then we will insist on assisting your own suicide even if you don't want to die, because BIG BROTHER knows whats best for you, we have got our eye on you 24/7.
Hahahahahah!!!!and I bet most of you that are moaning now backed the smoking ban.Hahahahahaha!!!! !Karma, ladies and gentlemen, karma....
mike, says...
6:22am Wed 17 Oct 07
David Vernon, saltdean says...
7:07am Wed 17 Oct 07
David Vernon, saltdean says...
7:10am Wed 17 Oct 07
i live near a pub and the regulars are outside for some of the night shouting and screaming whilst having a fag.Shame it's not in Lancing, I've heard the police are pulling walls down there!
graham, hove says...
7:45am Wed 17 Oct 07
I'd rather noise pullution on the street than air pollution indoors from filthy ciggies.
The smoking ban is great news, but people outside pubs is a nightmare. We live by a pub and last Saturday night there were 40 people outside the front of the pub up to midnight and the noise was horrendous. I leave for work at 5am so the weekend should be an opportunity to wind down. Plus the noise wakes our very young kids up, so its very stressful.
Thankfully the noise team from the council came round and agreed it as a statutory nuisance, so maybe now the licencsee will finally listen to neighbours concerns.
When the licence extension came up for the pub a year or so ago I went along and handed the commitee a letter from their own noise team saying the extension would create a noise issue for neighbours, but in the rush to be a trendy drinking den the councillors ignored their own noise team advice and gave the extension...
Richard, Brighton\Hove says...
9:15am Wed 17 Oct 07
He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both.
Judge Nutmeg, Hove says...
9:21am Wed 17 Oct 07
Rick H, Hove says...
9:44am Wed 17 Oct 07
Judge Nutmeg wrote:And your language isn't emotive? Or was that a crude stab at irony?
Pubs that create outdoor smoking sections are "pandering to smokers" are they? This is emotive language, The Argus. How about "trying to stay in business in the face of an unjust and divisive law"?
As an aside, my partner and I (both ex-smokers for 5 years now) went to a bar fo the first time since the smoking ban came in (he has been rather ill so our social life is getting back into gear). All we can say is fantastic!! Not only did we manage to get a seat in the bar but when we arrived home, we didn't have to bundle all our cloths into the washing machine straight away. The ban is long overdue and is a positive step in many directions.
Muppetry in action, Bton says...
9:46am Wed 17 Oct 07
Darryl, Kemp Town says...
10:14am Wed 17 Oct 07
Sensible, Brighton says...
10:23am Wed 17 Oct 07
Tim, Brighton says...
10:58am Wed 17 Oct 07
cant move, brighton says...
11:29am Wed 17 Oct 07
Sensible wrote:i'm going to put cold water on your rant "sensible" but many people in the city centre dont choose to live there at all they are put there by the council when they are found to be homeless so choice isnt an issue...furthermore a great many of those in the centre have schoolage kids who dont need lively cosmo types ******* up their sleep mon-sun
If you do not wish to live in a lively cosmospolitan town then I suggest you move to Saltdean, Burgess Hill, Peacehaven etc etc. The Government banned smoking in pub's to appease people like you, so don't moan about the inevitable consequences! Getting on a bit? Move out!
as you will often find its the singles, students and couples without kids who impose their own out of hours lifestyles on the families, if you want to drink in brighton do so indoors after 8pm simple...ooops silly me i forgot that's at odds with a vibrant cafe culture...or rather noisy selfish p*ssheads
Tony Peters, Saltdean says...
11:45am Wed 17 Oct 07
David Vernon wrote:You are a prize idiot Vernon.
i live near a pub and the regulars are outside for some of the night shouting and screaming whilst having a fag.Shame it's not in Lancing, I've heard the police are pulling walls down there!
What has this story got to do with your sad stoner buddies and their little cafe?
Your moronic little comments are about as funny as cancer
pudding&pi, Brighton says...
11:48am Wed 17 Oct 07
It'll probably get better as the weather gets worse.
misty, holywell says...
12:16pm Wed 17 Oct 07
gimmi an effin break, just off west st says...
1:13pm Wed 17 Oct 07
gatwickseagull, 2nd runway gatwick says...
1:24pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Smoker wrote:How very true - and how unlikely in Blair's/Brown's Britain. Draconian laws such as this do not need to be made. Pubs should have been given the option to be smoking or non smoking, A large sign on the door saying what sort of an establishment it was would have "protected" the whingers. Bar staff would have been smokers so nobody is exposed to anything they don't want. That, to me, is sense.Smoking is NOT going to go away whatever the killjoys want to think so you may just as well try and learn to peacefully co-exist. And please don't patronise me with reams of posts about "You've had your time now it's OUR time" as frankly I'm very bored with all that moaning claptrap.
andy nielson wrote: Surely it would have made much more sense to have smoking and non smoking establishments. Thanks to nu labour the freedom of choice has been taken away. Mr Orwell was well ahead of his time.At last! A voice of reason. I have no desire to impose my choices on anyone else (except fellow smokers who would wish to be included). A compromise could(and should) have been made.
paul, hove says...
1:45pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I too was most disgruntled when i moved in, near a main road, in a city known for its nightlife, near a pub. Much to my surprise, when the smoking ban was introduced, there were people on the streets!!! and talking, no less
People have to live in this town, not just party. If no one lived in the centre is would be pretty much like Cardiff, where the centre has no soul as vast swathes of it were pulled down to make way for souless shopping centres. There has to be a balance which just isn't there at the moment.
If you push families and others identified as apparently non party animals out of the centre then it's left to become a wasteland. ehrs
roddy, hove says...
2:16pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Whilst it is now infinitely more pleasant visiting a pub, one now has to endure clouds of smoke outside every licensed premises when walking down the road.
I thus have a dilema - personally I'd like to ban all smoking in public, but I do have some liberal leanings though...
David, Brighton says...
2:44pm Wed 17 Oct 07
OK, lets ban smoking in public.
Whats next, Ban people from leaving the pub if they're intoxicated?
Where does this end.
Why do all these people think we are suffering from life under a nanny state regime?
Its because of their constant moaning, thats why.
Why cant people just shut up for once, stop moaning about every little thing that bothers you as if the future of the planet depended on it and enjoy life.
If its too noisy where you live.....Move.
Personally, I am now going to start a campaign to get all street lighting turned off at 11pm as its disturbing my veiw of the stars!
Anyone want to join in?
lyn, 543-661 says...
3:09pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I. Fletcher, says...
3:54pm Wed 17 Oct 07
David, Brighton says...
4:05pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I. Fletcher wrote:Yellow teeth, who cares, Bad breath, thats why they invented chewing gum, Cancer, who wants to live forever, especially when surrounded by idiots like yourself!
Moaning smokers shut your nicotine-stinking gobs - the ban should be extended to an exclusion zone around pubs & restaurants too, theyre also public places.Then no noise for neighbours and no clouds of smoke as you negotiate your way into or out of the pub. By the way, did you know that as well as giving you cancer smoking gives you vile breath and yellow teeth? NICE! It also rots your brain and gives you a persecution complex whereby you blame all your problems on the government of the day - including the weather and your yellow teeth.
You are the bitter one, who just can't leave things be, and thinks you have the right to tell other people whats good for them.
And sorry to tell you, I don't think there is a smoker out there, that gives a s*** about your opinions.
I also must add, most of the people I come accross with total dog breath are non smokers. Go brush your teeth!
Laurence, Brighton says...
4:33pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Robert Feal-martinez, Swindon says...
5:32pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I. Fletcher, says...
7:20pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Robert Feal-martinez wrote:Sorry Robert but with respect this is total BS - there is no indoor air quality when smokers are present, not even if they are in their own section as the smoke travels. The solution, to stop the smokers, has been achieved and as winter approaches and they find themselves puffing on their miserable fags in brass monkey conditions, loads of them will give up. Which is the ultimate solution to all of this. Oh and David - Pearl Drops whitening toothpaste is sposed to be great you should try it!
There really is no need for abuse from either side of the argument. The fact remains that is the smoking bans which have created this problem. The solution was a simple one. Regulated Indoor Air Quality Standards monitored by the EHO. Modern systems remove 99.97% of all harmful particulates including ETS. Perhaps the local residents should lobby their MP to have the regulations amended to allow choice by way of RIAQS.
chas, suffolk says...
7:28pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Jill, Brighton says...
7:42pm Wed 17 Oct 07
chas, suffolk says...
7:50pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I think you have that the wrong way. Anti's are the most selfish. Smokers only want separate rooms, well ventilated. Anti's want smoking banned EVERYWHERE.
CheltenPlace, Brighton says...
7:56pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Stop complaining about noise if you choose ( yes - you have a choice and no one made you live NEXT to a pub) to live next to or near a pub.
So what do you do when the council allow a NEW pub to be opened NEXT to YOUR house (despite the protests of all the neighbouring residents) then ???
Mr.Meaner, Staid says...
8:10pm Wed 17 Oct 07
chas wrote:TOTALLY CORRECT.
Jill I think you have that the wrong way. Anti's are the most selfish. Smokers only want separate rooms, well ventilated. Anti's want smoking banned EVERYWHERE.
What is wrong with that scenario? WE don't bother you and thank God you don't bother us. I bet there are things that some of you 'non-smokers' do that would offend 'we smokers' even though they may not be smoking related. Tolerence for our RESPECTIVE lifestyle choices would be g reatly appreciated...or is that too complicated for you?
emma, withernsea says...
8:22pm Wed 17 Oct 07
I. Fletcher, says...
8:33pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Mr.Meaner wrote:What your tiny, nicotine addled brain hasn't grasped is that your nasty habit affected non smokers for years and you expected us to tolerate you while your smoke gave us cancer, worsened asthma and generally ruined nights out for us in pubs, clubs and restaurants (smoking areas have NEVER worked or protected non smokers from cigarette fumes). Non smokers 'lifestyle choice' not to smoke never affected you before the ban, so now all of a sudden youre asking for tolerance - which roughly translated means that you believe once again WE should tolerate YOUR smoke. It's right that you smoke in your own homes where your lifestyle choice doesn't affect others.
chas wrote: Jill I think you have that the wrong way. Anti's are the most selfish. Smokers only want separate rooms, well ventilated. Anti's want smoking banned EVERYWHERE.TOTALLY CORRECT. What is wrong with that scenario? WE don't bother you and thank God you don't bother us. I bet there are things that some of you 'non-smokers' do that would offend 'we smokers' even though they may not be smoking related. Tolerence for our RESPECTIVE lifestyle choices would be g reatly appreciated...or is that too complicated for you?
Mr.Meaner, Rolling eyes upwards.. says...
9:24pm Wed 17 Oct 07
2.Nicotine'addled', possibly though your definition of addled may differ from mine.
3.If you care to read one of my previous posts, you would see that I have no desire to share a room with you, let alone secondhand smoke.
4.Many things 'give' you cancer and asthma, passive smoking 'MAY' be one of them.
5."Ruined nights out" Ha! I have had many a night ruined by P***heads that cannot handle their alcohol intake...do I call for a ban on that?
6.Now you are repeating yourself, which does little to convince me that you know what you are really saying.
7. Sod off!
8.****
gatwickseagull, 2nd runway at gatwick says...
9:33pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Why can you not listen to another side of the debate ?
Smokers do have rights you know. Mr Meaner is 100% correct - there should be a choice. If you're that bothered about it why don't you ask the gov't to ban it - go ahead and start up one of those petitions on the number 10 website and see how much notice anyone takes of you
cliff, east london says...
9:55pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Ahmad, Whitehawk says...
10:07pm Wed 17 Oct 07
And proud of it.
Your whining reveals how selfish you are.
Me, me, me, me, me, me.
Anti smokers on here, are revealing themselves as spoilt brats. Come and tell me to be quiet while I'm smoking outside.
Go on, I dare you.
I. Fletcher, says...
10:42pm Wed 17 Oct 07
Ahmad wrote:Ooh 'Come and tell me to be quiet while I'm smoking outside'. You're hard - and your comment was to a woman! If smokers are so hurt & upset about not being allowed to smoke in public places (boo hoo) - stay home! From the lack of grace and intellect shown on here, you won't be missed. Bet youve got yellow teeth and bad breath Ahmad!
Jill And proud of it. Your whining reveals how selfish you are. Me, me, me, me, me, me. Anti smokers on here, are revealing themselves as spoilt brats. Come and tell me to be quiet while I\'m smoking outside. Go on, I dare you.
pat, herts says...
12:26am Thu 18 Oct 07
bill, BN0 says...
12:30am Thu 18 Oct 07
Planning refused to allow the new pub cos the noise it would create; licensing allowed it: ergo, see you in court -- who pays, btw?
# the law is different (public nuisance vs. residential amenity) .
Btw, 102 North Rd used to be a pub, then a piano shop, then Brighton Rights Advice Centre then a purveyor of graffiti support supplies ..
Then Karis bought it .
northlaineres, North Laine says...
12:32am Thu 18 Oct 07
chas, suffolk says...
9:43am Thu 18 Oct 07
David, Brighton says...
10:01am Thu 18 Oct 07
I.Fletcher:
Are you actually aware thet yellow is the natural colour of teeth and that they only go white due to the toothpaste's that we inflict on them.
As for bad breath, this is caused by food between the teeth and bacteria on the surface of your tongue.
I tend to find coffee drinkers have the worst breath, irrespective of whether they smoke or not.
Also, smokers are more likely to brush their teeth and chew gum more often than non smokers who seem to believe only smokers get bad breath.
Now go and buy yourself some Listerine!
I. Fletcher, says...
12:11pm Thu 18 Oct 07
David wrote:I've obviously struck a nerve there haven't I! Can't chat now, am off to my lovely, smoke free local for a pint - Cheers!
Bet youve got yellow teeth and bad breath Ahmad! I.Fletcher: Are you actually aware thet yellow is the natural colour of teeth and that they only go white due to the toothpaste's that we inflict on them. As for bad breath, this is caused by food between the teeth and bacteria on the surface of your tongue. I tend to find coffee drinkers have the worst breath, irrespective of whether they smoke or not. Also, smokers are more likely to brush their teeth and chew gum more often than non smokers who seem to believe only smokers get bad breath. Now go and buy yourself some Listerine!
chas, suffolk says...
1:37pm Thu 18 Oct 07
Jimmy, UK says...
6:47pm Thu 18 Oct 07
I. Fletcher wrote:I was under the impression that smoke could be guided by airflow, ie if fresh air inlets were above the bar and extractors in the smoking area, clean air would be drawn from the bar towards the smoking are
Robert Feal-martinez wrote: There really is no need for abuse from either side of the argument. The fact remains that is the smoking bans which have created this problem. The solution was a simple one. Regulated Indoor Air Quality Standards monitored by the EHO. Modern systems remove 99.97% of all harmful particulates including ETS. Perhaps the local residents should lobby their MP to have the regulations amended to allow choice by way of RIAQS.Sorry Robert but with respect this is total BS - there is no indoor air quality when smokers are present, not even if they are in their own section as the smoke travels. The solution, to stop the smokers, has been achieved and as winter approaches and they find themselves puffing on their miserable fags in brass monkey conditions, loads of them will give up. Which is the ultimate solution to all of this. Oh and David - Pearl Drops whitening toothpaste is sposed to be great you should try it!
Smoker, Outside, thanks to you says...
8:06pm Tue 16 Oct 07
!Karma, ladies and gentlemen, karma....