EDO boss tells Brighton protesters: 'You've got your facts wrong' (From The Argus)

I wonder of Mr Beckett could explain if he is agains the sale of parts to all countries or just Israel?

These protest groups are forever getting their facts or science wrong (Brent Spar anybody), but it never stops them getting publicity. Why not protest at every manufacturer in a very long chain? Have they only chosen this factory because it is seen a soft target and they can get their misguided, ill informed views expressed in the media. This factory is doing nothing illegal and should not be the target of the criminal damage these anarchists intend to inflict upon it.

salty_pete wrote:
These protest groups are forever getting their facts or science wrong (Brent Spar anybody), but it never stops them getting publicity. Why not protest at every manufacturer in a very long chain? Have they only chosen this factory because it is seen a soft target and they can get their misguided, ill informed views expressed in the media. This factory is doing nothing illegal and should not be the target of the criminal damage these anarchists intend to inflict upon it.

That's because they are too STUPID to work out the supply chain. Strange that they don't target the numerous defence companies in Crawley - then they could "protest" against a dozen in one go. I use the word "protest" - what they actually do is pick a fight with the police while hiding their faces because they are COWARDS. They then go on to disrupt local residents for no good reason. All because they fail to gather correct facts. It's not for EDO to prove their innocence - it's down to Smash EDO to prove EDO are guilty. EDO are a compnay employing local people ( unlike to protestors who use bus-a-mob to increase their numbers ) and who are carrying out a LEGAL trade. Smash EDO should concentrate on getting the trade banned if they are really serious but of course they wouldn't get their ruck with the police then. SCUM the lot of them - GO AWAY BACK TO THE TOWNS AND CITIES YOU'VE BEEN BUSSED IN FROM - YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE.

Well said, Fightback. I've been using places like BP garages and McDonalds that I wouldn't normally go to, just because these tw*ts are targetting them.

Have these rent-a-mob, what-shall-we protest-about-this week, have I time to collect my dole before I protest saddoes ever asked how many people in EDO would lose their jobs if they were shut down?

And do they think that if EDO were closed down, what they make couldn't be produced elswhere?

Well put FightBack.

If all the people 'supporting' Smash EDO on Monday were interviewed I bet only a handful would know what they were protesting about.

It seems to me that the so called protesters are about as wanted in Brighton as a **** in a space suit. They distort the facts and quote references from wiki sites (normally a load of rubbish thats why you cant use them for any uni courses) they dont listernto anyone. It will be another fraggle party for the great unwashed rent a mob goading the police and trying to pick fights with 16 year olds at Mc Donalds great stuff bet your mums are so proud of you

I should think 90%+ of the 'protestors' have no idea what they are protesting about. It's just a day out to cause trouble and it makes them feel important.

jo w wrote:
I should think 90%+ of the 'protestors' have no idea what they are protesting about. It's just a day out to cause trouble and it makes them feel important.

well said jo, and as someone else pointed out, this electronic stuff would be made elsewhere anyway

"Mr Hills said the company had nothing to hide but were not at liberty to discuss what they made or where the products went"

So that clears that one up then...

The organisers of Smash EDO are sadly misguided. The only reason they have the ability to protest, at least not in German, is that Britain has a strong defence industry. If EDO were making landmines or scatter bombs I would join the protest, but making safe release mechanisms for bombs is quite important, really.
As for the rent-a-mob that are being bussed in - they are just the scum floating on the shallow end of the gene pool.

Meh.

I wish smash EDO would bugger off, quite frankly.

They can't prove any of their "facts" from what I've seen. Oooh, I read it on t'interweb, so IT MUST BE TRUE!!

Of course, conducting yourself like a pack of animals is guaranteed to make the world's leaders listen and stop the war.

If they knew what they were talking about and actually did something to try and make a difference I perhaps wouldn't mind so much.

Unfortunately it seems that most of them are full of $hite!

Well put fighback & it seems to be the opinion of the MAJORITY of Brighton RESIDENTS - not your bussed in rent-a-mob who don't live owrk or conrtibute to society.

Turn Mr Hills' argument on it's head for one minute. If there was a terrorist plot in this country and Mr Hills was supplying parts which enabled the safe release of bombs, he would likely be charged with conspiracy.

I would guess that in reailty there are no more than 50 fully active members of smash EDO living in Brighton. And I might be being over generous with that estimate.
This is why 99% of posters on this site don't like the idea of our city being held to ransom by a rent a mob over the bank holiday weekend.
If smash EDO can't see that the idea of holding this demo on May Bank Holiday is totally against local public opinion, and will alienate them from some people who might actually have supported them, they need to get out more.
You have to remember, that most tourists visiting B&H this weekend will have no idea that this is taking place.
It's deliberately designed to cause the most disruption for normal folk.

Fighback is spot on. What about companies who make aviation fuel, paint, glass the list is endless.

They won't go to Crawley - it's not as nice a day out as going to Brighton.

Fighback is spot on. What about companies who make aviation fuel, paint, glass the list is endless.

They won't go to Crawley - it's not as nice a day out as going to Brighton.

Have you not got the message yet. BRIGHTON RESIDENTS DO NOT WANT ANY OF YOU HERE. You are the dregs of society, if you don't live here go back to where you came from and get on with your sad little lives. If I were to demonstrate, which I'm not at least I would stand up and be counted and not hide behind a mask. Just F--- off out and leave our town in peace

Pointer looking at Smash's web site... If your a local, don't wear anything red on Monday.

I also love the page on Smash's web site about 'How EDO supply the arms trade' (with NO information) :

http://www.smashedo.
org.uk/pressreleases
/How%20EDO%20Supplie
s%20the%20Israeli%20
Military.htm


A local protest back at Smash would be great, setup a street rave and get Pete Bennett to mimick the 'Techno Viking' (see youtube) - Brighton party style.

He can shout 'eee's a tw@@t' at protesters and wave glow sticks at them in an angry fashion.

I reckon we should all form a "Smash smash EDO" group and give them all a stern talking to.

bc909885 wrote:
Fighback is spot on. What about companies who make aviation fuel, paint, glass the list is endless.

They won't go to Crawley - it's not as nice a day out as going to Brighton.

That's a silly argument, aviation fuel, paint and glass have a plethora of uses (well, maybe not the fuel). Bomb release systems have only one use: dropping bombs to cause death and destruction.

EDO, amongst other weapons systems, produce the Zero Retention Force Arming Unit and are the ONLY company to manufacture this. This is a vital part of the weapons systems on Israeli F16 fighters, so Paul Hills saying EDO don't supply Israel is nonsense. Yes, the parts may go through America first for loophole purposes but they know where they end up.

The arms trade is not a moral beast, surely any idiot can see that? They don't care where their products end up, in fact they'd prefer it ended up in a conflict zone. More bombs dropped = more systems sold so it's in their interests to have people fighting wars..

Rephrase: If your a local and NOT supporting Smash (as Smash EDO is a Brighton based group) then don't wear red.

The comments in support of Smash EDO by "Mr nothing head" has only got one thing right .. his nom de plume !

TreasureIsland, Hove says...
1:40pm Thu 30 Apr 09
Have you not got the message yet. BRIGHTON RESIDENTS DO NOT WANT ANY OF YOU HERE. You are the dregs of society, if you don't live here go back to where you came from and get on with your sad little lives. If I were to demonstrate, which I'm not at least I would stand up and be counted and not hide behind a mask. Just F--- off out and leave our town in peace
Have you not got the message yet. BRIGHTON RESIDENTS DO NOT WANT ANY OF YOU HERE. You are the dregs of society, if you don't live here go back to where you came from and get on with your sad little lives. If I were to demonstrate, which I'm not at least I would stand up and be counted and not hide behind a mask. Just F--- off out and leave our town in peace


Well said !!!

Fightback, I live here and all protesters are welcome. It's soulless people who cannot joint the dots and understand that EDO profit directly from murder that I would choose to ban from the city, but it's a free world. Get over it.

Carl Bugenhagen wrote:
Fightback, I live here and all protesters are welcome. It's soulless people who cannot joint the dots and understand that EDO profit directly from murder that I would choose to ban from the city, but it's a free world. Get over it.

I don't have an issue with peaceful protest but Smash EDO have an agenda to cause damage and fear rather than any real protest. Why don't you protest outside those companies that make the bombs themselves ? Or what about Thales in Crawley that sell "defence goods " to the Chinese government ?

I would lay a fairly hefty bet that if the protestors were made to pay the polcing bill, rather than the people of Brighton and Hove, then most would immediately lose their desire to be present. Even giving Smash EDO the benefit of the doubt and assuming all 800 protesters were local, you'd still only represent 0.32% of the city. Given the posts in this thread I would suggest bus-a-mob are not wlecomed by the majority. Tell you what, I'll lay down a challenge - Smash EDO go ahead with your protest, if there is no trouble, no arrests and no criminal damage at EDO I'll pay £100 to a local charity, say the Childrens Hospital, if on the otherhand tehre is trouble, arrests and damage then Smash EDO and the protesters will pay £80k to a local charity ( each paying the same as me if I lose the bet ). Put your money where you mouths are.

Carl Bugenhagen wrote:
Fightback, I live here and all protesters are welcome. It's soulless people who cannot joint the dots and understand that EDO profit directly from murder that I would choose to ban from the city, but it's a free world. Get over it.

Partly true, as mentioned above, Smash EDO is run and organized by Brighton Residents, so residents are moaning about residents. 50/50.

It's a free world? Nope it aint, and it needs to be governed, and you can't govern countries with a flump and a whoppee cushion (as much as some of us would love that).

The world isn't peaceful, it never will be. Arms need to be made, it's how these arms are redistributed as a part or as a whole (ie, a SAM/aircraft/rifle) where the issue lies IMO... and then there's always the black market anyway.

Targetting EDO will achieve nothing in the long run. Either EDO or the buyer will go elsewhere.

Seems to me that Smash EDO are a little extreme, and misguided with their protests (ie. irritating the locals with their disruption). But they may have a point.

Also, makes me laugh when people are derided for using their democratic right to protest. Happens all the time. "At least these people have the right to protest!" Yeah exactly and they're using it.

I just feel sorry for any visitors to the City who are unaware that it will be full of hysterical hippies, clogging up the streets with their dogs on strings and cans of Special Brew.

Their website is pathetic with numbers to call for meeting points (07506705509 if you are bored and fancy clogging it up for them? and numbers to call for emotional support on the day. They also have a wnky pirate radio station which I am sure can't be legal and will hopefully be shut down.

I just hope the good old British Bank Holiday weather comes good and the rain washes all this scum into the sea.

If anyone in red gets in my way on Monday he/she will get one hell of a shock.

I wonder if Nicola Fisher will be there??

Dixonian wrote:
Seems to me that Smash EDO are a little extreme, and misguided with their protests (ie. irritating the locals with their disruption). But they may have a point.

Also, makes me laugh when people are derided for using their democratic right to protest. Happens all the time. "At least these people have the right to protest!" Yeah exactly and they're using it.

There is a right to PEACEFUL PROTEST, which I firmly believe in. Unfortunately on previous occasions with smash EDO, the protest has been far from peaceful (whatever their spokespeople say).
This is why people who live here are concerned.

every one has a democratic right to protest, fine with me, its is how the protest is undertaken that is the point, also the validity of the argument behind the protest, this bunch of idiots called smash EDO have not got a valid argument against this company. have blatantly got their facts wrong, and intent to cause massive disruption to resident who do not share their veiws, also incur the ratepayers with additional policing costs as previously they have shown themselves not to be resonable and mature about their protest
for those reasons I rail against them , and extend my sympathy to the decent hard working employess of the company and the citizens of brighton & hove who have to put up with this rabble

Smash EDO Press Release. 30 April 2009 (16:30)

The managing director of arms factory EDO MBM at the centre of a mass protest in Brighton this Monday, claimed today that protesters have got their facts wrong. In response the campaign group Smash EDO say he is hiding the true facts about what the company make and its time for him to face those facts and come clean.

*
Inteview with Paul Hills, MD of EDO MBM

http://www.theargus.
co.uk/search/4330205
.EDO_boss_tells_Brig
hton_protesters___Yo
u_ve_got_your_facts_
wrong_/

*

Andrew Beckett, press spokesperson for Smash EDO said,

'We have a right to know what this arms company are really up to, so when Paul Hills accuses us of getting our facts wrong, we say "prove us wrong" But the fact is, he can't.'

'Paul Hills claims the company do not supply Israel, but hides the fact that EDO MBM own and control the rights to the bomb release technology used by the Israeli Air Force F16 aircraft. That's a fact. Paul Hills has admitted this in court, as
recently as last month he confirmed it, under oath.'

'Further evidence suggests these parts are actually being made in Brighton and
exported to the Israel (via another country). The Government has confirmed it has
granted the company export licences for these parts since 1998, but the end user
information has been withheld. Despite official UK Goverment statements and
confirmation from the Information Commissioner Paul Hills still refuses to admit
that some of these licences even exist. Despite his claims in the interview the fact
remains that he blocked public requests for the licence information under FOIA.

On 5 July 2007 John Doddrell, Director of Uk Govt Export Control
Organisation stated in an FOIA response:

‘EDO MBM has asked us not to disclose any information on export
licences...Therefore any such information that they might contain is exempt from
disclosure’.

http://www.ico.gov/u
pload/document/decis
ionnotices/2008/fs_5
0180838.pdf

In todays interview Paul Hills descends into surrealism, with his claim that EDO MBM is 'not an arms factory', while at the same time admitting that its products are designed for the ‘safe carriage and release’ of bombs. He appears to be deluding himself that air strikes are a safe activity.

Finally he is right about one thing when he says BERR control UK export licences.
These are licences under UK arms control law that control technology for military
use, listed on the Government’s list of controlled military equipment. EDO MBM must apply for these arms export licences to export their products.

So however 'irritating' it may be, the fact is EDO MBM are clearly an arms factory
and for this reason protests will continue against them until they are shut down.

Their business has been cut by half since the campaign began in 2004.

El Burro, The Hollingbury Aggro Men

Of course you'll one of the first people police will have to interview if someone gets assaulted by an unknown member of the public...

salty_pete wrote:
The comments in support of Smash EDO by "Mr nothing head" has only got one thing right .. his nom de plume !

Thank you, I admire your sharp wit and brilliantly thought out post.

If I only have one thing right can you disprove anything I've said regarding EDO/MBM supplying Israel? Reality begs to differ.. Unless Israel are magically manifesting EDO components out of thin air?

Try doing it without resorting to personal digs and insults or without threatening violence as many here have done (Smash EDO have not once threatened violence against people by the way), as it makes people come across as very childish.

Peacehaven Paul wrote:
I wonder if Nicola Fisher will be there??

Probably, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I think we all agree that everyone has the right to protest/demonstrate but I wonder how many will end up in hospital on Monday when the protests turn violent.

Their own 'leader' said that he can't control what happens and people are being bussed in from all over the country.

I'm staying out of the way on Monday - it's going to be chaos. It's a shame they don't realise that peaceful protests are far more effective and earn support from others. It's how to make people listen - it worked for Gandhi.

If one is to believe these posts, EDO is manufacturing bombs/bomb parts/bomb delivery systems specifically for the Israelis, so they can murder children as many children as they see fit.

What a load of cr@p!

If you have a minute, you could easily find out that they make Zero Retention Force Arming Units, a small but vital part of the aircraft in which they are used. Additionally, Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42
, BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there, but as another poster suggested, the US probably buys them and resells them (or, more accurately, gives them away to countries they support.

Like many other posters, I believe that the majority of the "protesters" won't have a clue what they are there for, other than the pap fed to them by the manipulative SMASH EDO organizers, most of which is half-truths and smoke-and-mirrors. I also believe that most people in Brighton don't give a flying four letter word about SMASH EDO and don't want a bunch of derelicts out for day of mayhem in their neighbourhoods. I don't live in Brighton any more, and even I don't want them there.

And while I'm on a rant, why does the Freedom of Information Act apply to a business? Are you suggesting that anyone can demand to know what your local greengrocer pays for apples, or who he buys them from, just because you want to know? Using that logic, I could ask SMASH EDO where they get their financial support and be outraged when they (of course) refuse to answer.

The only thing you jerks will achieve is to p!ss off the people of Brighton, who will have to pay for the costs of your "protest", to the point where you'll become pariahs - if you haven't done so already.

Hmph!

Jim BB wrote:
I think we all agree that everyone has the right to protest/demonstrate but I wonder how many will end up in hospital on Monday when the protests turn violent.

Their own 'leader' said that he can't control what happens and people are being bussed in from all over the country.

I'm staying out of the way on Monday - it's going to be chaos. It's a shame they don't realise that peaceful protests are far more effective and earn support from others. It's how to make people listen - it worked for Gandhi.

Jim,

Smash EDO have no leader and have threatened no violence??

MoreMikey says:
"Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42

, BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there"

Ermmm, IAF stands for Israeli Air Force, VER-2 and VER-4 are bomb racks designed by IMI (Israeli Military Industries).. So you've proved the point about EDO components being used by Israel, even though Mr. Hills won't admit it...

Jim BB wrote:
I think we all agree that everyone has the right to protest/demonstrate but I wonder how many will end up in hospital on Monday when the protests turn violent.

Their own 'leader' said that he can't control what happens and people are being bussed in from all over the country.

I'm staying out of the way on Monday - it's going to be chaos. It's a shame they don't realise that peaceful protests are far more effective and earn support from others. It's how to make people listen - it worked for Gandhi.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

Remember the anti-Gulf war protest, one of the biggest demonstrations ever seen in this country. It was peaceful. Result: Tony Blair said "I have heard you", then waged war based on lies and copy-and-paste "intelligence".

Remember the Poll Tax demonstrations in Trafalgar Square? They descended into riots. Result: Poll Tax abolished.

Peaceful protest does not always work, or even work most of the time, or even some of the time.

The pen is mightier than the sword only when people are prepared to use swords to back up the pen.

MoreMikey,

EDO/ITT ARE they Americans!

If they know they are effectively supplying Israel it makes no difference the sleight of hand going on.

Would it make a difference if I were running a shop and selling fags and booze to an adult I knew would go round the corner and give them to kids... Which is clearly illegal- but conveniently difficult to prove.

They are just a lazy bunch of people,most on benefits who havent a clue what they are protesting about.Imagine them running the Country,they would soon change their tune/morals and attitudes.

Funny how the M.D has chosen to break his five year silence about what it is that EDO MBM actually do make this week.-

Couldn't he have saved himself a lot of aggro?

Funny how the M.D has chosen to break his five year silence about what it is that EDO MBM actually do make this week.-

Couldn't he have saved himself a lot of aggro?

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
MoreMikey, EDO/ITT ARE they Americans! If they know they are effectively supplying Israel it makes no difference the sleight of hand going on. Would it make a difference if I were running a shop and selling fags and booze to an adult I knew would go round the corner and give them to kids... Which is clearly illegal- but conveniently difficult to prove.

F off back to your other thread.

Osama bin there wrote:

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
MoreMikey, EDO/ITT ARE they Americans! If they know they are effectively supplying Israel it makes no difference the sleight of hand going on. Would it make a difference if I were running a shop and selling fags and booze to an adult I knew would go round the corner and give them to kids... Which is clearly illegal- but conveniently difficult to prove.

F off back to your other thread.

Run out of arguments already?

Us 'Brightonians' and OUR supporters have said all they need to, got the message!!

You can protest all you want outside these places, but no one will be there to hear you and remember one thing, come Tuesday morning it's back to business as usual.

Protest completed - yes

Nothing accomplished - yes

Clean up operation needed - yes

Local residents paying for this - yes

Brighton P!$$ed off - YES, YES, YES !!!

Do you care about us - NO NO NO !!!!

MoreMikey wrote:
If one is to believe these posts, EDO is manufacturing bombs/bomb parts/bomb delivery systems specifically for the Israelis, so they can murder children as many children as they see fit. What a load of cr@p! If you have a minute, you could easily find out that they make Zero Retention Force Arming Units, a small but vital part of the aircraft in which they are used. Additionally, Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42 , BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there, but as another poster suggested, the US probably buys them and resells them (or, more accurately, gives them away to countries they support. Like many other posters, I believe that the majority of the "protesters" won't have a clue what they are there for, other than the pap fed to them by the manipulative SMASH EDO organizers, most of which is half-truths and smoke-and-mirrors. I also believe that most people in Brighton don't give a flying four letter word about SMASH EDO and don't want a bunch of derelicts out for day of mayhem in their neighbourhoods. I don't live in Brighton any more, and even I don't want them there. And while I'm on a rant, why does the Freedom of Information Act apply to a business? Are you suggesting that anyone can demand to know what your local greengrocer pays for apples, or who he buys them from, just because you want to know? Using that logic, I could ask SMASH EDO where they get their financial support and be outraged when they (of course) refuse to answer. The only thing you jerks will achieve is to p!ss off the people of Brighton, who will have to pay for the costs of your "protest", to the point where you'll become pariahs - if you haven't done so already. Hmph!

MORE MIKEY FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!

GVG wrote:
Us 'Brightonians' and OUR supporters have said all they need to, got the message!!

You can protest all you want outside these places, but no one will be there to hear you and remember one thing, come Tuesday morning it's back to business as usual.

Protest completed - yes

Nothing accomplished - yes

Clean up operation needed - yes

Local residents paying for this - yes

Brighton P!$$ed off - YES, YES, YES !!!

Do you care about us - NO NO NO !!!!

Protest completed - We'll see. Sounds like the plod are egging for trouble, and setting a bogus pretext for violent action.

Nothing accomplished - Hmm, export controls, banned landmines, progress on cluster munitions, nearly got BAe roasted in court... so progress is being made.

Clean up operation needed - same as any public event.

Local residents paying for this - yes, same as any public event.

Brighton P!$$ed off - No, on the whole most people won't give a toss either way- unless the cops kill someone again- to be brutally honest. Which is why it takes a minority to actually effect change.



Do you care about us - Compared to the thousands perhaps ten of thousands of people murdered with EDO equipment, and those maimed, and those dispossessed... not much in the grand scheme of things.

Sorry if you are more bothered about having your peace disturbed than actually doing anything about people who happily facilitate murder.

Some of us have other priorities.

Will these idiots only be happy when we lose more skilled jobs in Brighton and a company like EDO decides to up sticks and go to France or Germanyto the benefit of their economies?

More unemployment = the Government not being able to afford to pay benefits to these work shy hippy troublemakers.

Suppose there could be a silver lining afterall.

As a fellow company director and knowing just how difficult it is to keep a company going at the moment I for one will be sending an email of support to Mr Hills tomorrow.

hovesweethove wrote:
Will these idiots only be happy when we lose more skilled jobs in Brighton and a company like EDO decides to up sticks and go to France or Germanyto the benefit of their economies?

More unemployment = the Government not being able to afford to pay benefits to these work shy hippy troublemakers.

Suppose there could be a silver lining afterall.

As a fellow company director and knowing just how difficult it is to keep a company going at the moment I for one will be sending an email of support to Mr Hills tomorrow.

Lord help us if we see a brain drain on baby killers!

The calamity!

Leon wrote:

MoreMikey wrote:
If one is to believe these posts, EDO is manufacturing bombs/bomb parts/bomb delivery systems specifically for the Israelis, so they can murder children as many children as they see fit. What a load of cr@p! If you have a minute, you could easily find out that they make Zero Retention Force Arming Units, a small but vital part of the aircraft in which they are used. Additionally, Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42 , BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there, but as another poster suggested, the US probably buys them and resells them (or, more accurately, gives them away to countries they support. Like many other posters, I believe that the majority of the "protesters" won't have a clue what they are there for, other than the pap fed to them by the manipulative SMASH EDO organizers, most of which is half-truths and smoke-and-mirrors. I also believe that most people in Brighton don't give a flying four letter word about SMASH EDO and don't want a bunch of derelicts out for day of mayhem in their neighbourhoods. I don't live in Brighton any more, and even I don't want them there. And while I'm on a rant, why does the Freedom of Information Act apply to a business? Are you suggesting that anyone can demand to know what your local greengrocer pays for apples, or who he buys them from, just because you want to know? Using that logic, I could ask SMASH EDO where they get their financial support and be outraged when they (of course) refuse to answer. The only thing you jerks will achieve is to p!ss off the people of Brighton, who will have to pay for the costs of your "protest", to the point where you'll become pariahs - if you haven't done so already. Hmph!

MORE MIKEY FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!

Trust me, you REALLY don't want that.

As I said in an earlier post, protesters who burden already overstretched emergency services with a clear threat of "targets in the city" are potentially killing babies and anyone else who is in need of social care here in Brighton.
They are stealing resources from children, family services and elderly social care as vital resources are funnelled into manning this protest, which by its very name -Smash EDO - is antagonistic.
Yes, protest, but choose a method and a language which is less aggressive and antagonistic and frightening to locals. You will have far more success in engaging with local people. Look at the support the Gurkhas are gaining. While most of Britain don't want more "migrants" to the UK, they have bucked the trend and the majority of British people believe they should have homes here. Not a single protest with angry words or threats.
Unfortunately the campaigners of this protest have portrayed themselves (with their choice of vocabulary) as some kind of "untamed and unpredictable" army without a leader or true clear message. They convey an image of wanting to sacrifice UK communities to save another as if they are modelling themselves on some kind of paramilitary organisation. This behaviour is often that of disaffected men, usually under 40. Successful campaigns have always been carried out in peace. Maggie, you are not a peace loving hippy, who wants a silent march through town and lays down in the road covered in flowers, you speak in an aggressive, angry and bitter way which has not engaged people to the cause.
People will now protect EDO which is the opposite of what you wanted.......or is it? You are clearly intelligent so perhaps you are a double agent planted by EDO to get locals on board.

TheInsider wrote:
As I said in an earlier post, protesters who burden already overstretched emergency services with a clear threat of "targets in the city" are potentially killing babies and anyone else who is in need of social care here in Brighton.
They are stealing resources from children, family services and elderly social care as vital resources are funnelled into manning this protest, which by its very name -Smash EDO - is antagonistic.
Yes, protest, but choose a method and a language which is less aggressive and antagonistic and frightening to locals. You will have far more success in engaging with local people. Look at the support the Gurkhas are gaining. While most of Britain don't want more "migrants" to the UK, they have bucked the trend and the majority of British people believe they should have homes here. Not a single protest with angry words or threats.
Unfortunately the campaigners of this protest have portrayed themselves (with their choice of vocabulary) as some kind of "untamed and unpredictable" army without a leader or true clear message. They convey an image of wanting to sacrifice UK communities to save another as if they are modelling themselves on some kind of paramilitary organisation. This behaviour is often that of disaffected men, usually under 40. Successful campaigns have always been carried out in peace. Maggie, you are not a peace loving hippy, who wants a silent march through town and lays down in the road covered in flowers, you speak in an aggressive, angry and bitter way which has not engaged people to the cause.
People will now protect EDO which is the opposite of what you wanted.......or is it? You are clearly intelligent so perhaps you are a double agent planted by EDO to get locals on board.

My that's mighty big of Mighty Whitey allowing people who have risked their lives for the UK to live here. You talk like that is some privilege, when it is the very LEAST that should be offered.

Shame they had to get dragged into two illegal wars- which I assume people like you never opposed.

**** you have foiled me with your Jedi Mind Tricks and subtle reverse psychology psyops.

Again, I'm not here trying to recruit from what is obviously the shallow stagnant end of Sussex's gene pool.

But thanks for letting me know that what I say upsets you enough to be desperate to be rid of me.

I actually only came here to point out that the hatchet job story of the other day was a pack of lies, and have been morbidly entranced by the place ever since.

I have never seen so many contortions to negotiate around and elephant in the room in my life.

Seems like Argusville just really can't come to terms with the death factory in their backyard, and some just really would rather drink bleach than entertain the idea that "smelly hippies" could have any point.

I guess the fact that I have to keep repeating the fact that I have nothing whatsoever to do with Smash EDO (who are obviously experienced enough of the entrenched Argus to deem any interaction pointless) and incredible nature of your responses indicates that you be suffering the onset of dementia.

Don't worry, I'll be much too busy in the very near future to encroach on your happy Fairytaleland with mad made up stories of babies ripped apart in foreign countries...

Sleep on Argusville!

I never liked Maggie Thatcher

I never liked Maggie Thatcher

Mr nothing head wrote:
MoreMikey says:
"Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42


, BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there"

Ermmm, IAF stands for Israeli Air Force, VER-2 and VER-4 are bomb racks designed by IMI (Israeli Military Industries).. So you've proved the point about EDO components being used by Israel, even though Mr. Hills won't admit it...

With hindsight, I'd go further than that, actually, and I submit that Mr. Paul Hills is an outright liar and has tried to mislead the public by feeding false information to The Argus.

If someone against Smash EDO and their cause can unwittingly find and post evidence that Israeli bombs are being dropped by EDO/MBM technology then it's quite clear what is happening here.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with EDO or whether you feel their actions and sales are lawful or otherwise; Paul Hills has LIED to the press to paint his company as somehow on a moral higher ground.

Arms dealers have no morals. They thrive off death and destruction. EDO are not a friendly, happy, butter-wouldn't-melt company targeted by a bunch of loony renegades. Standing up to defend them just so you can criticise some 'hippies' doesn't help anyone. They (or ITT at least) would happily contribute to your deaths if there was a decent profit margin in it.. Nationalities or politics don't come into it, their agenda is strictly that of profit, as history shows us..

Mr nothing head wrote:

Mr nothing head wrote:
MoreMikey says:
"Israel is not their only customer, if they are a customer at all. These devices are used on the U.S. Navy BRU-32,BRU-41,BRU-42



, BRU-45, the USAF BRU-46 & BRU-47, the RAAF MAU-12, the European Tornado HMERU & LMERU, and the IAF VER-2 & VER-4. I don't see Israel listed there"

Ermmm, IAF stands for Israeli Air Force, VER-2 and VER-4 are bomb racks designed by IMI (Israeli Military Industries).. So you've proved the point about EDO components being used by Israel, even though Mr. Hills won't admit it...

With hindsight, I'd go further than that, actually, and I submit that Mr. Paul Hills is an outright liar and has tried to mislead the public by feeding false information to The Argus.

If someone against Smash EDO and their cause can unwittingly find and post evidence that Israeli bombs are being dropped by EDO/MBM technology then it's quite clear what is happening here.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with EDO or whether you feel their actions and sales are lawful or otherwise; Paul Hills has LIED to the press to paint his company as somehow on a moral higher ground.

Arms dealers have no morals. They thrive off death and destruction. EDO are not a friendly, happy, butter-wouldn't-melt company targeted by a bunch of loony renegades. Standing up to defend them just so you can criticise some 'hippies' doesn't help anyone. They (or ITT at least) would happily contribute to your deaths if there was a decent profit margin in it.. Nationalities or politics don't come into it, their agenda is strictly that of profit, as history shows us..

That's a plain stupid arguement - it's not EDO / ITT that drop the bombs. Why don't we campaign to close down Ford as drunk drivers use their goods to kill people ?

You seem to be missing the point most posters have made - it's not whether EDO are right or wrong. It's the violence that Smash EDO bring to the city that most of us object to. The city has hosted many demos that have been peaceful and achieved their aims - this is because grown up intelligent people have been invloved rather than rent-a-mob. They have also discussed things with the police - hence safe and peaceful demos have been had. Smash EDO have only ONE aim - a fight with the police involving as much violence and destruction as possible. My challenge still stands but I note Smash EDO haven't taken it up.

Fight back,

vehicles are not designed to kill, bomb delivery systems are only designed for the purpose of killing.

But if you were to supply a car to someone you knew was going to use it to kill someone you would become an accessory to murder... if you DESIGNED and built the car to facilitate murder, the charges would be even more serious.

EDO are selling components designed to kill, to people who are know to commit murder and who have committed murder with their equipment.

Does that really sound innocent to you? Just because they never pushed the trigger themselves... merely assisted the person who did?

Smash EDO have made no threats of violence and riot so what the hell are you talking about???

So, you have war criminals in your back yard, and all you care about if swallowing some utter rubbish your local rag has cooked up... reread their hatchet job. Smash EDO do not imply anywhere they have violent intentions... it's the Argus that seems to have elicited conjecture about possible violence from various people who are unsympathetic to Smash EDO. Hardly rocket science or post-grad level media studies?

But god forbid you should get upset about your local rag yanking your chain; the 3 Minute Hate is possibly your only pleasure life.

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
El Burro, The Hollingbury Aggro Men Of course you'll one of the first people police will have to interview if someone gets assaulted by an unknown member of the public...

They won't get very far, like most people who live a harmonious existence within the miracle of consumer capitalism, I will be drunk in my back garden on Monday, laughing at your pitiful attempts to upset the town of Brighton because you're too narrow minded to understand that a few smashed windows/arrests is not going to change anything. I think you need to read proper books a bit more, instead of left-wing propaganda.

4$$,

well if threatening people with violence is your idea of harmonious, it is no wonder you find it so difficult to form a coherent argument.

El Burro wrote:

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
El Burro, The Hollingbury Aggro Men Of course you'll one of the first people police will have to interview if someone gets assaulted by an unknown member of the public...

They won't get very far, like most people who live a harmonious existence within the miracle of consumer capitalism, I will be drunk in my back garden on Monday, laughing at your pitiful attempts to upset the town of Brighton because you're too narrow minded to understand that a few smashed windows/arrests is not going to change anything. I think you need to read proper books a bit more, instead of left-wing propaganda.

It's going to be a good natured street party, not a ruckus.. The only people who have insuinuated that are the Argus and moronic commentators on here, even the police themselves have said they're expecting the event to go off peacefully, read their last couple of press releases.. Also, read up on Reclaim The Streets- it's far from a violent or destructive movement at all...


And to FightBack::
Regardless of whether you think what they do is right or wrong can't you understand that Paul Hills has knowingly LIED and made false statements to the media.. There is no dispute the man knows where his products end up, as 'MoreMikey' posted earlier.. Israeli jets would not be able to drop bombs without components made in Brighton at EDO/MBM.. If Mr. Hills had the balls to admit that then we might be on a different topic by now. As it stands, the man is a liar.

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
Fight back,

vehicles are not designed to kill, bomb delivery systems are only designed for the purpose of killing.

But if you were to supply a car to someone you knew was going to use it to kill someone you would become an accessory to murder... if you DESIGNED and built the car to facilitate murder, the charges would be even more serious.

EDO are selling components designed to kill, to people who are know to commit murder and who have committed murder with their equipment.

Does that really sound innocent to you? Just because they never pushed the trigger themselves... merely assisted the person who did?

Smash EDO have made no threats of violence and riot so what the hell are you talking about???

So, you have war criminals in your back yard, and all you care about if swallowing some utter rubbish your local rag has cooked up... reread their hatchet job. Smash EDO do not imply anywhere they have violent intentions... it's the Argus that seems to have elicited conjecture about possible violence from various people who are unsympathetic to Smash EDO. Hardly rocket science or post-grad level media studies?

But god forbid you should get upset about your local rag yanking your chain; the 3 Minute Hate is possibly your only pleasure life.

The Smash EDO web site uses plenty of provocative language that implies they want or at least support violent action. That combined with past demos where they have attacked the police, EDO property, private individuals property and EDO employees clears shows their intent. They have never condemned the violence at previous demos nor do they take any action the prevent it. Therefore they can't complain when they get painted as mindless thugs. Thugs that cover their faces because they are ashamed of their own actions.

"I don't understand the objection to the 'monkey' component of the word either. I simply object to providing free advertising and endorsement for the overt racist and imperialist Edward Abbey who coined the term to describe his fictional Gang's sabotage of heavy plant machinery.

Abbey makes frequent use of racial and sexual stereotypes, and deems the areas that were being developed on Indian land as being "too good for Indians", whilst also disparaging AIM (American Indian Movement) whilst AIM were being subject to a murderous COINTEL programme."

Total crap! As is the rest of it.

"I don't understand the objection to the 'monkey' component of the word either. I simply object to providing free advertising and endorsement for the overt racist and imperialist Edward Abbey who coined the term to describe his fictional Gang's sabotage of heavy plant machinery.

Abbey makes frequent use of racial and sexual stereotypes, and deems the areas that were being developed on Indian land as being "too good for Indians", whilst also disparaging AIM (American Indian Movement) whilst AIM were being subject to a murderous COINTEL programme."

Total crap! As is the rest of it.

Maggie Thatcher wrote:
4$$, well if threatening people with violence is your idea of harmonious, it is no wonder you find it so difficult to form a coherent argument.

A "stern talking to" is not a threat of violence, oh Great one.

If you claim that "Smash EDO" is a non-violent organisation, surely a group named "Smash smash EDO" would be seen in the same light. I am far, far cleverer than you.

Actually, without an arming unit (based on my experience with RAF ones), Israeli jets would be able to bomb away quite happily. They just wouldn't be able to jettison them inertly in an emergency.
So, even if the UK business is supplying them (when it appears to be the case that the US one is, but hey, guess airfare is expensive to justify a foreign protest) they are hardly going to stop the Israelis by not supplying them. The IDFAF (that's the proper shorthand BTW, IAF is the Indian Air Force. At least according to just about every publication I've ever read) would just have to be a bit more careful...

As for VER-2/4. A bit of reading up (now I know why I kept those Jane's all these years) shows them to be multi-store carriers, not the actual aircraft pylon racks. Now, if they are anything like our multi-store carriers on the Tornado and Harrier, they are probably gathering dust because they can't carry smart weapons. Certainly a GIS reveals no recent shots (including a few from the December period) of any IDFAF F-16 carrying anything like them.

So if we accept that the Israeli connection makes up a large chunk of the resentment we'll see on Monday, we have a protest against a safety critical device (as they were always refered to in the RAF),manufactured in the US (not Brighton), for a piece of obsolete and likely out of use equipment.

Hmm... I guess if anyone should be protesting its the Israeli tax-payer for having the IDFAF waste their money on keeping a museum piece!

Code Red wrote:
Actually, without an arming unit (based on my experience with RAF ones), Israeli jets would be able to bomb away quite happily. They just wouldn't be able to jettison them inertly in an emergency.
So, even if the UK business is supplying them (when it appears to be the case that the US one is, but hey, guess airfare is expensive to justify a foreign protest) they are hardly going to stop the Israelis by not supplying them. The IDFAF (that's the proper shorthand BTW, IAF is the Indian Air Force. At least according to just about every publication I've ever read) would just have to be a bit more careful...

As for VER-2/4. A bit of reading up (now I know why I kept those Jane's all these years) shows them to be multi-store carriers, not the actual aircraft pylon racks. Now, if they are anything like our multi-store carriers on the Tornado and Harrier, they are probably gathering dust because they can't carry smart weapons. Certainly a GIS reveals no recent shots (including a few from the December period) of any IDFAF F-16 carrying anything like them.

So if we accept that the Israeli connection makes up a large chunk of the resentment we'll see on Monday, we have a protest against a safety critical device (as they were always refered to in the RAF),manufactured in the US (not Brighton), for a piece of obsolete and likely out of use equipment.

Hmm... I guess if anyone should be protesting its the Israeli tax-payer for having the IDFAF waste their money on keeping a museum piece!

Ha ha ha - yet again showing that Smash EDO, rent-a-mob et al have not been able to research their facts properly.

Why do SmashEDO use false / fictional names for their 'spokespersons'? i.e Cloe Marsh & Andrew Beckett. Hardly Legitimate??

Maggie...Jedi Mind Tricks???? Have you ever had an admission under section or a psychotic episode.
Jedi Mind Tricks....the mind really boggles now.
What on earth was that ramble about?

Thanks for that, Code Red.

so, straight from the RAF guy, an arming unit is used to disarm the weapon in an emergency jettision or inadvertent release. Makes sense, saves life. Imagine RAF aircraft flying without such devices over our countryside. I bet the Smashy and Maggie brigade still object to such equipment.

So come on then Smash EDO - where's your money ??? My deal is still available - I guess you're too cowardly to take the bet !

Code Red wrote:
Actually, without an arming unit (based on my experience with RAF ones), Israeli jets would be able to bomb away quite happily. They just wouldn't be able to jettison them inertly in an emergency.
So, even if the UK business is supplying them (when it appears to be the case that the US one is, but hey, guess airfare is expensive to justify a foreign protest) they are hardly going to stop the Israelis by not supplying them. The IDFAF (that's the proper shorthand BTW, IAF is the Indian Air Force. At least according to just about every publication I've ever read) would just have to be a bit more careful...

As for VER-2/4. A bit of reading up (now I know why I kept those Jane's all these years) shows them to be multi-store carriers, not the actual aircraft pylon racks. Now, if they are anything like our multi-store carriers on the Tornado and Harrier, they are probably gathering dust because they can't carry smart weapons. Certainly a GIS reveals no recent shots (including a few from the December period) of any IDFAF F-16 carrying anything like them.

So if we accept that the Israeli connection makes up a large chunk of the resentment we'll see on Monday, we have a protest against a safety critical device (as they were always refered to in the RAF),manufactured in the US (not Brighton), for a piece of obsolete and likely out of use equipment.

Hmm... I guess if anyone should be protesting its the Israeli tax-payer for having the IDFAF waste their money on keeping a museum piece!

When referring to VER-2/4 IAF is the Israeli military seeing as they're the only country to produce, develop and utilise these systems...

Anyhoo, does anyone want to dispute my submission that Paul Hills is a liar? Or is that the elephant in the corner? As I keep repeating and no-one answers,he publicly states equipment is not going to Israel when there is so much evidence to the contrary. He knows parts are going to Israel, yet categorically denies it all and makes misleading statements to say so.. What do EDO have to hide if they are, *ahem* kosher? No smoke without fire, if you ask me..

IAF may be the Israelis, the Indians, the Iraqis or for all we know, even the Inuits.


Lets assume for the moment the parts are 'going to Israel'. The problem you appear to have is not that the parts are going to Israel but that Paul Hills lied about it. (allegedly - can't afford a libel case right now)

According to the article, he states that they don't supply Israel; this is probably true - they may supply the people who ultimately supply Israel - he's not denied that - but that doesn't make him a liar.

Bassetts don't directly supply me but I still eat their Jelly Babies.

kkj wrote:
IAF may be the Israelis, the Indians, the Iraqis or for all we know, even the Inuits. Lets assume for the moment the parts are 'going to Israel'. The problem you appear to have is not that the parts are going to Israel but that Paul Hills lied about it. (allegedly - can't afford a libel case right now) According to the article, he states that they don't supply Israel; this is probably true - they may supply the people who ultimately supply Israel - he's not denied that - but that doesn't make him a liar. Bassetts don't directly supply me but I still eat their Jelly Babies.

kkj you have now`admitted to being a jelly baby murderer. You will have the great unwashed on your doorstep on monday, move quickly!

if edo is manufacturing parts destined for israel, then it would make sense that our peace-loving chums in 'smash edo' are protesting against them.

it seems that groups operating out of the cowley club, of which 'smash edo' is one, seem to share a pre-occupation with israel and 'anti-zionism'.


it seems the cowley/psc/smash edo pre-occupation with israel means that the bnp has had its raison d'etre usurped in our peace-loving and tolerant city.

any movement which describes a jewish faith school as being a 'zionist facility', as i've heard a certain prominent cowley-ite describe it, would have appeared to have crossed the line from 'anti-zionism' to anti-semitism.

meet with the nu-left, same as the old right.

worthinglad wrote:

kkj wrote:
IAF may be the Israelis, the Indians, the Iraqis or for all we know, even the Inuits. Lets assume for the moment the parts are 'going to Israel'. The problem you appear to have is not that the parts are going to Israel but that Paul Hills lied about it. (allegedly - can't afford a libel case right now) According to the article, he states that they don't supply Israel; this is probably true - they may supply the people who ultimately supply Israel - he's not denied that - but that doesn't make him a liar. Bassetts don't directly supply me but I still eat their Jelly Babies.

kkj you have now`admitted to being a jelly baby murderer. You will have the great unwashed on your doorstep on monday, move quickly!

The jelly babies were already dead. I'm merely an accessory after the fact, or part of the great jelly baby murder conspiracy

kkj wrote:

worthinglad wrote:

kkj wrote: IAF may be the Israelis, the Indians, the Iraqis or for all we know, even the Inuits. Lets assume for the moment the parts are 'going to Israel'. The problem you appear to have is not that the parts are going to Israel but that Paul Hills lied about it. (allegedly - can't afford a libel case right now) According to the article, he states that they don't supply Israel; this is probably true - they may supply the people who ultimately supply Israel - he's not denied that - but that doesn't make him a liar. Bassetts don't directly supply me but I still eat their Jelly Babies.

kkj you have now`admitted to being a jelly baby murderer. You will have the great unwashed on your doorstep on monday, move quickly!

The jelly babies were already dead. I'm merely an accessory after the fact, or part of the great jelly baby murder conspiracy

KKJ You poor deluded fool the fact they were dead when you eat them, will not stop the Smash the dead jelly babe eaters. They will descend upon you like the four horseman of the unwashed and smite you verily as the Smug Bourgeois Jelly Babe eater you most certainly are. hide leave the country quickly.

Maggie

You are an anarchist therefore have no sense of reality on life or be able to show caring for other 'men'. Anarchy is a violent destructive drive. It is so flawed it was probably designed by Rover.

What are you doing about the amount of deaths in Africa due to poor funding?
What are you doing about CO2 reduction?
What are you doing about the safety of children in the UK?
What are you doing about the plight of the elderly and care costs?
What are you doing about unemployment and the effects on a community?
What are you doing about sustainable living?
What are you doing about alleviating Malaria?
What are you doing about Cancer research?
What are you doing about community cohesion?
What are you doing about the plight of those killed in Italy?
What about the human rights issues in China?

You speak in such a pathetic, unrealistic, immature and divisive way. You slant everything to ensure that you antagonise the readers.

You will achieve nothing with your posts.

Until you solve ALL the worlds problems you have NO RIGHT to pontificate, moralise or take a holier than thought approach to anyone else.

Grow up.

Attacking EDO is a waste of energy and gets you a bad name. They make a tiny part of the military equipment that all governments who can afford it, buy. EDO don't make the decisions to use it and it would still get used if they weren't there.