Poyet calls for change to FA disciplinary system (From The Argus)
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Poyet calls for change to FA disciplinary system
10:33am Thursday 7th February 2013 in Sport By Andy Naylor
Charlie Oatway, second left. Albion are set to contest his FA charge.
Albion boss Gus Poyet has called for an overhaul of the Football Association disciplinary system covering the behaviour of managers and their staff.
Poyet wants an independent panel, free of FA involvement, to decide on cases.
Poyet's plea comes with Albion poised to contest a charge of improper conduct faced by first team coach Charlie Oatway.
Sheffield Wednesday chief Dave Jones has been charged with the same offence after the pair were dismissed by referee Simon Hooper during last Saturday's match at Hillsborough.
Poyet told The Argus: "It would would be funny if you got accused by the police and the police judge you after. You'd have no chance. This is the situation with the FA at the moment and I cannot believe that nobody is standing up. I think it's time to make sure it is an independent panel, completely independent, not named by the FA.
"As soon as you are charged that's it, so why are you spending all your energy to prove that the report is wrong when it doesn't matter, you are going to get done anyway?
"That is the truth, because I have been there. I proved that the report about a situation I had at Coventry was completely wrong, nothing close to the truth, and I was found guilty and fined £2,000.
"If somebody, anyone, from the FA could explain that it would be nice."
Oatway has until 4pm tomorrow to respond to the charge.
Poyet said: "It's not going to be very difficult, if you know what I said after the game, what our decision is going to be but, because it has not been made 100 per cent yet I'm not going to commit to that.
"I believe that Charlie was very, very wrongly dismissed."
Comments(32)
B-hove
says...
10:51am Thu 7 Feb 13
Vernon Wentworth
says...
11:13am Thu 7 Feb 13
The referee makes his report and the FA bring a charge on the basis of that report.
You are allowed to contest the charge and bring forward evidence either in writing or in person.
If you have a good case then you get off.
davidinsouthampton
says...
11:27am Thu 7 Feb 13
Vernon Wentworth wrote:But most people wwould accept that an FA panel is more likely to uphold an original charge made by the FA. It's objectivity wlll always be in question.
Can't agree with Gus here.
The referee makes his report and the FA bring a charge on the basis of that report.
You are allowed to contest the charge and bring forward evidence either in writing or in person.
If you have a good case then you get off.
Jonathan Mouette
says...
11:32am Thu 7 Feb 13
Neillo
says...
12:10pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509
says...
12:16pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Vernon Wentworth wrote:You cant possibly believe that!!. Look at the evidence,Jones goes to our technical area and argues with Charlie,he blatantly puts his arm across Charlies chest,Charlie has his hands in his pocket!. Unyet a very poor ref on the day sends Charlie off as well,the fact that the FA,are charging Charlie at all is ridiculous at best. We all know full well the FA stick up for their refs regardless of how big a blunder they have made. If you are Ferguson you will have a chance,but not the rest of us.
Can't agree with Gus here.
The referee makes his report and the FA bring a charge on the basis of that report.
You are allowed to contest the charge and bring forward evidence either in writing or in person.
If you have a good case then you get off.
An independent panel is the only fair way to guarantee a fair outcome. UTA
tug509
says...
12:17pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Neillo wrote:If you are right then that proves bias. UTA
Not much point in Oatway disputing the charge now that GP has said that....
the taffster
says...
12:31pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Smartbloke
says...
12:45pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Vernon Wentworth wrote:Er... actually no you don't.
Can't agree with Gus here.
The referee makes his report and the FA bring a charge on the basis of that report.
You are allowed to contest the charge and bring forward evidence either in writing or in person.
If you have a good case then you get off.
FA rules don't allow it.
Smartbloke
says...
12:47pm Thu 7 Feb 13
the taffster wrote:Interesting you introduce your post as 'boring'. You were right on that score.
boring. oatway should learn to control his temper and gus should concentrate on what matters within his control like player motivation and picking a starting 11 able to compete with mediocre sides like sheff wed.
Hovite
says...
12:52pm Thu 7 Feb 13
davidinsouthampton wrote:Well they have got to draw the line somewhere otherwise every decision would be fought.
Vernon Wentworth wrote:But most people wwould accept that an FA panel is more likely to uphold an original charge made by the FA. It's objectivity wlll always be in question.
Can't agree with Gus here.
The referee makes his report and the FA bring a charge on the basis of that report.
You are allowed to contest the charge and bring forward evidence either in writing or in person.
If you have a good case then you get off.
This was over a bit of handbags between two club staff and whatever happened, whoever the instigater, they both had to go.
All this means is that next time a game gets heated Oatway will step away and keep calm.
I am more disappointed with the Barnes sending off and being down to 10 men for 65 mins. Ulloa needed his first league game with a full team, even just as match practice.
To me this moment was key and may well define our season.
We have just got to get out there and do the business on the pitch, and maybe now because we have nothing to lose things may change and result will come.
tug509
says...
12:57pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509
says...
1:00pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509 wrote:Again sorry,but Hovite,next time Charlie,step away and keep calm?,it`ll never happen,its not his nature. UTA
Sorry Hovite,but thats part of why they have technical areas,if you leave yours to pursue an argument with the oppositions bench,then you are the guilty party. UTA
pjwilk
says...
1:19pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Hovite
says...
1:26pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Oatway wasn't sitting down quietly, and I don't know what he was saying to Jones before the event.
I know that this was about a player that should have maybe been sent off, and because we were a man down anyway we wanted it evened out. If Barnes hadn't been rightfully sent off in the first place, Oatway wouldn't have been shouting of the injustice.
Oatway is first team coach, not a fan who is caught up in the moment.
This whole incident was a carry on from Barnes's sending off, not the refs fault, not Jones's fault and Oatway should have shown Barnes his anger in the dressing room and not taken it out on anyone else.
Tug do you know what was going on and what was said before Jones stepped over?
Hovite
says...
1:27pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Hovite
says...
1:31pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Hovite wrote:Of course it was to tug, I mention tug twice doh
Above response to tug
VegasSeagull
says...
1:31pm Thu 7 Feb 13
In most walks of life the aggressor is normaly the person held responsible and in this case, Jones left his technical area and entered Oatway's thus making him the aggressor.
The refs will issue a yellow or red card to the person commiting the bad foul but they will also do the same to the person fouled if he retaliates, it seems to me that that is what has happened here.
Oatway may have not been the aggressor but his response to the aggression may have been wrong.
I don't know, I didn't see it and I am only offering a possible explanation. ,
rolivan
says...
1:32pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509
says...
1:59pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Hovite wrote:Its funny Hovite,i read your response aloud,and when it got to the "i dont know what he was saying to Jones before the event",i turned to my wife,who was already smiling and said,i bet i do!. But thats just Charlie,Jones is no angel,in fact iv`e heard he is one of the most antagonistic so and so`s in the Championship. I still think that the physical aggression Jones displayed was the catalyst,and his lack of genuine character,was only likely to get one response from a firecracker like Charlie,and i think he knew that.
Well that's his & Gus's problem not mine then tug.
Oatway wasn't sitting down quietly, and I don't know what he was saying to Jones before the event.
I know that this was about a player that should have maybe been sent off, and because we were a man down anyway we wanted it evened out. If Barnes hadn't been rightfully sent off in the first place, Oatway wouldn't have been shouting of the injustice.
Oatway is first team coach, not a fan who is caught up in the moment.
This whole incident was a carry on from Barnes's sending off, not the refs fault, not Jones's fault and Oatway should have shown Barnes his anger in the dressing room and not taken it out on anyone else.
Tug do you know what was going on and what was said before Jones stepped over?
To be honest only those there at the time will know for certain what was said,but i have always thought that you know what you are getting with Charlie,he does everything up front,no snyde tricks,i dont believe Jones is cut from the same clothe. UTA
Hovite
says...
2:27pm Thu 7 Feb 13
And the only thing I did was call Jones a *****r. I didn't start it, he stepped over the line. Was nuffing to do we me, honest.
I haven't even bothered watching the clip and the FA haven't got time to bother with it either. It's only a £2k fine and if Gus doesn't think it is fair on Oatway, he can pay it.
Pay it and get over it and concentrate on beating Hull. UTA
Hovite
says...
2:30pm Thu 7 Feb 13
dave from bexill
says...
3:12pm Thu 7 Feb 13
B-hove wrote:I don't wish to sound rude B-hove but your explanation of the "balance of probability" is somewhat simplistic and more complex than you suggest.
Yep! Absolutely right Gus. Same happened to John Terry. Aquitted in a court of law: which deals with facts. Found guilty by the FA on the "balance of probability" - i.e. opinion. And we all know that, as opposed to facts, opinions are like bottoms: everyone has one and a lot of them stink!
championshipgull
says...
3:43pm Thu 7 Feb 13
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/sport/0/football/21
371343#asset
saraman
says...
5:25pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509
says...
5:30pm Thu 7 Feb 13
Just got back home,so i have only just read your reply.
I can understand Charlies disinterest in the clip,after all he knows they aren`t going to bother with the facts. I would of agreed with you on the Barnes should pay his fine bit,if it wasn`t for the equally bad but under punished pugh tackle on Ini.
Spot on Hovite,all the focus must be on beating a good Hull side,despite the fact they lost to Sheff Wed 3-1 as we did,recently. Only they had 11 men and were at home.
BUT,Charlie is spot on dave jones IS a *****r. UTA
tug509
says...
5:53pm Thu 7 Feb 13
saraman wrote:What,like Ferguson does!. You know your football saraman,managers have been given heart monitors during games,you cannot expect clarity of thought in a vital match,in any match for that matter. Likewise i believe referees are under the same pressure to a degree,after all they are not going to lose their job if "they" make a mistake,but countless managers have and will.
Wether Charlie or Gus is right or wrong there is one thing that bothers me. It is the fact that both of them are not strangers to tantrums on the touch line. Referees by and large do not like to have their judgement challenged and I am sure talk to each other about various members of various clubs. The upshot is that referees will not treat The Albion too favourably in future. Gus could have made a rod for his and our backs. If as Gus says you cannot beat them do the clever thing and keep your gob shut.
Being nice to refs could just as easily be construed as trying to curry favour,and if your right and refs talk about members of clubs,then how blatantly is that proving Gus` point!!!.
You say "keep your gob shut",do you not defend yourself or those you consider yours,that is what they are doing,defending theirs,their team mates and friends,we do it ,they do it,it doesn`t mean they should abuse there position and ultimately decide the outcome of what might be a pivotal football match. UTA
WisdomSpeaks
says...
6:01pm Thu 7 Feb 13
saraman
says...
6:09pm Thu 7 Feb 13
tug509 wrote:Your wisdom has been taken on board Tug. Perhaps a little more self counselling and prudence from Gus may be a better arguement. Also less airing of ALL of his views in public.
saraman wrote: Wether Charlie or Gus is right or wrong there is one thing that bothers me. It is the fact that both of them are not strangers to tantrums on the touch line. Referees by and large do not like to have their judgement challenged and I am sure talk to each other about various members of various clubs. The upshot is that referees will not treat The Albion too favourably in future. Gus could have made a rod for his and our backs. If as Gus says you cannot beat them do the clever thing and keep your gob shut.What,like Ferguson does!. You know your football saraman,managers have been given heart monitors during games,you cannot expect clarity of thought in a vital match,in any match for that matter. Likewise i believe referees are under the same pressure to a degree,after all they are not going to lose their job if "they" make a mistake,but countless managers have and will. Being nice to refs could just as easily be construed as trying to curry favour,and if your right and refs talk about members of clubs,then how blatantly is that proving Gus` point!!!. You say "keep your gob shut",do you not defend yourself or those you consider yours,that is what they are doing,defending theirs,their team mates and friends,we do it ,they do it,it doesn`t mean they should abuse there position and ultimately decide the outcome of what might be a pivotal football match. UTA
Baldseagull
says...
11:49pm Thu 7 Feb 13
We don't have a panel deciding whether the ball crossed the line or not and the consequence of getting that decision wrong can be far more damaging than having your assistant manager sit in the stands and have his wallet picked.
Let it go Gus, I think it should be enough to say that you do not agree with the refs opinion.
Anyone citing what happened to John Terry as an example of FA injustice is barking up the wrong tree, in my opinion.
dave from bexill
says...
9:09am Fri 8 Feb 13
jockithenoo says...
10:46am Thu 7 Feb 13
Now please back you're target man for cms and play both together on Saturday i will back you 100% if it don't work but at least try (you did say last week you wanted to see more of them so please go for it)
UTA