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Poyet blasts critics of Zola loan dealings (From The Argus)
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Poyet blasts critics of Zola loan dealings
9:30am Friday 1st March 2013 in Sport By Andy Naylor
Gus Poyet and Gianfranco Zola at The Amex earlier this season
Albion boss Gus Poyet has told Ian Holloway and other critics of Watford’s loans policy to shut up.
Poyet says the Crystal Palace chief and detractors of Gianfranco Zola’s Championship promotion contenders are jealous hypocrites.
Watford have 11 players on temporary deals at Vicarage Road, nine of them from Italian owner Gino Pozzo’s other teams Udinese and Granada.
Clubs are only allowed to name five loan players in a matchday squad under Football League rules.
The restriction does not apply to capped internationals so Watford are free to select 20-goal Matej Vydra, Joel Ekstrand, Almen Abdi and Daniel Pudil outside the five-player rule.
Holloway branded the situation “ludicrous” following Palace’s recent 2-2 draw at Watford.
Chairmen will now vote on whether to change the rules at the Football League’s summer AGM after widespread media attention. But Poyet has accused the critics of undermining the job being done by former Chelsea team-mate Zola at second-placed Watford.
He told The Argus: "If they are within the rules why are people complaining? If I say every week I don’t like loans outside the transfer windows, are the Football League going to investigate that and change it next year because I am not happy?
“Maybe not, because somebody has got interest in loans during the year – and I’m talking about, clubs, agents, Football League and company.
“This is by the rules so I don’t know what they are complaining about. It’s unfair and it’s jealousy and hypocrisy so they are making a big mistake.
“They are trying to take away things from the job that Gianfranco is doing. You cannot have everything but if you go by the rules the rest need to shut up, proper, shut up.
“And then, if they change the law, Gianfranco will need to change, simple as that, and he will, but they need to shut up.”
Comments(51)
mark by the sea
says...
9:47am Fri 1 Mar 13
HornetJJ
says...
10:01am Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea
says...
10:03am Fri 1 Mar 13
HornetJJ wrote:Last home grown player to make his debut for the Albion? Grant hall!
Well said Gus! I can also confirm that this has not held back any of our youth players as they still get in the squad and are improving by learning from international players.
Zorg the Leveller
says...
10:29am Fri 1 Mar 13
So since they aren't technically on loan, they don't count towards the five-player maximum.
heathgate
says...
10:31am Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea wrote:Exactly MBTS, 5 or 7 on the bench, Gus is very reluctant to use players from youth or development squads, maybe the odd unused sub spot, but his record is poor in this area at least.
HornetJJ wrote:Last home grown player to make his debut for the Albion? Grant hall!
Well said Gus! I can also confirm that this has not held back any of our youth players as they still get in the squad and are improving by learning from international players.
NB: He is pretty clued up in all other areas though.
mellow yellow
says...
10:33am Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea
says...
10:44am Fri 1 Mar 13
heathgate wrote:I don't have problem with Gus not playing them, but his rant last year has held no water when things changed!
mark by the sea wrote:Exactly MBTS, 5 or 7 on the bench, Gus is very reluctant to use players from youth or development squads, maybe the odd unused sub spot, but his record is poor in this area at least.
HornetJJ wrote:Last home grown player to make his debut for the Albion? Grant hall!
Well said Gus! I can also confirm that this has not held back any of our youth players as they still get in the squad and are improving by learning from international players.
NB: He is pretty clued up in all other areas though.
If Watford don't make the premiership? Zola and poyet a double act. That would probably get the fans back onside.
not a regular
says...
10:55am Fri 1 Mar 13
We’re flying, playing great football and there is nothing to stop other clubs getting international loans in, they’re just upset that it’s not them in this position. In fact I remember Leicester fielding 5 domestic and 2 international loans a couple of years back. What about Hull whose chairman’s connection has allowed them to import some of Egypt’s finest? Cardiff nearly £100m in debt and still paying the overinflated wages of Bellamy and co?
Whether the players are loaned or signed permanently, it makes no difference to English youth – if they’re good enough they’ll play (and get a more diverse experience with better technical coaching to boot) as has been shown by Sean Murray, Tommie Hoban, Connor Smith and Jonathan Bond.
FWIW our first eleven would probably consist of 2 from last year’s team, 4 Udinese, 1 Granada, 1 Chelsea, 1 academy youngster and 2 frees from this summer. So only really one extra loanee than “allowed”.
Harrydownunder
says...
10:58am Fri 1 Mar 13
Holloway is a plum.
Cabin fever
says...
11:11am Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea wrote:I'm guessing from the username that HornetJJ is a Watford fan...
HornetJJ wrote:Last home grown player to make his debut for the Albion? Grant hall!
Well said Gus! I can also confirm that this has not held back any of our youth players as they still get in the squad and are improving by learning from international players.
SMF20
says...
11:21am Fri 1 Mar 13
Some clubs will spend millions trying to reach the promosied land and in fairness that is their risk.
What Watford have done is borrow a team as expensive as any that others have bought but with zero risk. These are the same owners players and on the same pay roll. should they get promoted then they will buy these guys permanently usinf Premiership money and if they dont then they will have a go next season or send them back, either way the player is paid by the same guy, the only thing that changes is the kit and ground that they play in.
Cant knock Zola though, top guy and working within the rules, just seems a bit wrong.
Heres to 3 points tomorrow
Uta
Dr Baldhead
says...
11:25am Fri 1 Mar 13
Gus has waded in with size 10s and probably unneccessarily wound a few people up. We all know that he and Zola are buddies and it's nice to support them, but Holloway was trying to draw attention to something that he said should be stopped IN THE FUTURE.
I don't think that many ordinary fans would be against stopping a repeat of such extensive loan dealings with overseas clubs before the start of the next season.
mr punch
says...
11:40am Fri 1 Mar 13
Zorg the Leveller
says...
11:43am Fri 1 Mar 13
SMF20 wrote:It's a different kind of takeover. Would you object in principle if we had been taken over by rich arabs who had pumped money in? The Pozzos don't have that sort of money... but they DO have experience of running football clubs (25 years+ at Udinese) and different assets (Scouts, young players). A model that's more sustainable. I don't really see the problem.
I always like what Gus has to say but im afraid that imho he is wrong with this one.
Some clubs will spend millions trying to reach the promosied land and in fairness that is their risk.
What Watford have done is borrow a team as expensive as any that others have bought but with zero risk. These are the same owners players and on the same pay roll. should they get promoted then they will buy these guys permanently usinf Premiership money and if they dont then they will have a go next season or send them back, either way the player is paid by the same guy, the only thing that changes is the kit and ground that they play in.
Cant knock Zola though, top guy and working within the rules, just seems a bit wrong.
Heres to 3 points tomorrow
Uta
Claude Back
says...
11:57am Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea wrote:I agree Mark.
Sorry Gus, but last year you made mAssive statement about how having only 5 subs on the bench restricts bringing youth players through! Only this year we are allowed 7, and has it changed your selection of youth policy? This rule regarding international loans plus 5 is one rule holding back young players in this country.
Gus appears to be not very bright sometimes.
For the record, Holloway was not ranting about it, he made a very shrewd and calm statement about the effect of these loans on the Championship and Football in general. I listened to it as opposed to getting second-hand info from so called journalists. He made intelligent comments.
i luv my dog
says...
11:57am Fri 1 Mar 13
Claude Back
says...
11:59am Fri 1 Mar 13
SMF20 wrote:Well said.
I always like what Gus has to say but im afraid that imho he is wrong with this one.
Some clubs will spend millions trying to reach the promosied land and in fairness that is their risk.
What Watford have done is borrow a team as expensive as any that others have bought but with zero risk. These are the same owners players and on the same pay roll. should they get promoted then they will buy these guys permanently usinf Premiership money and if they dont then they will have a go next season or send them back, either way the player is paid by the same guy, the only thing that changes is the kit and ground that they play in.
Cant knock Zola though, top guy and working within the rules, just seems a bit wrong.
Heres to 3 points tomorrow
Uta
not a regular
says...
12:01pm Fri 1 Mar 13
SMF20 wrote:Zero risk... Well not really seeing as it could have backfired. Don't forget these were all fringe players, not first teamers. There was no guarantee of success. There was no guarantee of staying up, even.
I always like what Gus has to say but im afraid that imho he is wrong with this one. Some clubs will spend millions trying to reach the promosied land and in fairness that is their risk. What Watford have done is borrow a team as expensive as any that others have bought but with zero risk. These are the same owners players and on the same pay roll. should they get promoted then they will buy these guys permanently usinf Premiership money and if they dont then they will have a go next season or send them back, either way the player is paid by the same guy, the only thing that changes is the kit and ground that they play in. Cant knock Zola though, top guy and working within the rules, just seems a bit wrong. Heres to 3 points tomorrow Uta
The Championship is more of an uneven playing field than the Premier League when you take into account the debt/wages paid out by Cardiff and Leicester compared to those of Barnsley and Peterbrough, all we at Watford are doing is challenging that with a new way of thinking.
I'm perplexed as to why you think putting the future of a club at risk is acceptable, while being prudent and finding other ways to compete at the highest level is not.
Claude Back
says...
12:02pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Dr Baldhead wrote:Ditto.
Totally with Holloway on this. Watford are exploiting a loop hole to great effective. In his post match interview after Palace's match at Vicarage Road, he said the "loop" needed reviewing as it wasn't fair BUT also said good luck to Watford for seizing on what is currently a legally acceptable opportunity.
Gus has waded in with size 10s and probably unneccessarily wound a few people up. We all know that he and Zola are buddies and it's nice to support them, but Holloway was trying to draw attention to something that he said should be stopped IN THE FUTURE.
I don't think that many ordinary fans would be against stopping a repeat of such extensive loan dealings with overseas clubs before the start of the next season.
I cannot add anything to that erudite post.
VegasSeagull
says...
12:11pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Rules are rules so as long as you abide by the rules then Holloway should complain about the rules and not the guy abiding by them.
As Gus says, change the rule and Zola will change his practices.
Neillo
says...
12:18pm Fri 1 Mar 13
He's well suited to that odious Russians club.
mark by the sea
says...
12:20pm Fri 1 Mar 13
VegasSeagull wrote:There are rules and ways around rules, did Zola assemble his squad knowing the rue has a silly element to it? There are rules and there are unwritten rules, there is no rule governing the return of the ball when a player gets injured.. Would Zola have so many players on loan at the club if he could only play 5? Which I think is still to much, I would like to see 4 loan players, or a average age of say 22 for all loan players on the pitch!
SMF20, isn't Gus simply saying that the rule is at fault and not Zola.
Rules are rules so as long as you abide by the rules then Holloway should complain about the rules and not the guy abiding by them.
As Gus says, change the rule and Zola will change his practices.
I would also like the FA to introduce a fourth sub, who can only be a English player under 19. Which means the keeper would probably be a youth player... Rather than a journeyman.
Dr Baldhead
says...
12:20pm Fri 1 Mar 13
VegasSeagull wrote:I think SMF20 reads it right. Holloway said the rule was at fault, not Zola. Olly didn't criticise Zola or Watford come to that.
SMF20, isn't Gus simply saying that the rule is at fault and not Zola.
Rules are rules so as long as you abide by the rules then Holloway should complain about the rules and not the guy abiding by them.
As Gus says, change the rule and Zola will change his practices.
That Gus is now claiming that "others" (don't think he names Holloway) have criticised Zola is either him misinterpreting what has been said or, most likely, deciding to add a new slant on the issue and personalise it.
I think Gus is a good guy most of the time, but he's wrong on this one and is getting involved unnecessarily.
Hoarder12345444
says...
12:32pm Fri 1 Mar 13
hannover seagull
says...
12:38pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Watford signed yet another yesterday,
Briggs from Fulham.
At my last count they had 14 loan players in the squad how can this be good for the game and youth development.
Should change their name from
The Hornets to The Borrowers.
UTA.................
....................
........
PressBoxTeaBoy
says...
12:41pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Harrydownunder wrote:Well said.
So Holloway doesnt like the fact we have signed players "on loan", what about being able to sell your best player for a load of cash then loaning him back for the season? Is this "fair"?
Holloway is a plum.
VegasSeagull
says...
12:58pm Fri 1 Mar 13
fairweathersupporter
says...
1:06pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Neillo and i luv my dog: Poor, very poor. Please go to the back of the class and re sit your WUM exam.
Obviously looking forward to tomorrow. With the stated intent from H'field, I would expect Barnes to be back and a solid looking midfield. But bar the defence, it's been difficult to predict, so I'll leave it there.
mark by the sea
says...
1:11pm Fri 1 Mar 13
pjwilk
says...
1:17pm Fri 1 Mar 13
pjwilk
says...
1:24pm Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea wrote:Totally agree with your comments Mark by sea,very sensible not like the FAs incompedence.
VegasSeagull wrote:There are rules and ways around rules, did Zola assemble his squad knowing the rue has a silly element to it? There are rules and there are unwritten rules, there is no rule governing the return of the ball when a player gets injured.. Would Zola have so many players on loan at the club if he could only play 5? Which I think is still to much, I would like to see 4 loan players, or a average age of say 22 for all loan players on the pitch!
SMF20, isn't Gus simply saying that the rule is at fault and not Zola.
Rules are rules so as long as you abide by the rules then Holloway should complain about the rules and not the guy abiding by them.
As Gus says, change the rule and Zola will change his practices.
I would also like the FA to introduce a fourth sub, who can only be a English player under 19. Which means the keeper would probably be a youth player... Rather than a journeyman.
mkhornet
says...
1:36pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Hovite
says...
1:41pm Fri 1 Mar 13
I remember the days when you could only field two foreign players on match day but times have changed since then.
I watched the Holloway interview after Palace drew 2-2 with Watford and felt he had a point and he was right to raise it.
How many loan players should be allowed to play on match day?
If the rest of the Championship was filled with foreign loaned academy players, would this damage the development of English football at home and on the world stage?
Can we afford to let the rest of the world have this advantage over us?
I don’t mind foreign players being part of the English game, but only if they are serving permanent contracts and are working with home grown players.
If nobody stood up to air a view to help the game, we would still be playing 100 a side football, with no offside rule and playing with an out of shape pigs bladder.
Hovite
says...
1:43pm Fri 1 Mar 13
mkhornet wrote:Good to know, when was this made public?
It's all academic to Watford whether the league changes the rules or not as the club's owners have already gone on record to state that all of the loan players at the club will be made permanent in the summer. On another note I like most other Watford fans hope that Brighton go up instead of Palace and their Muppet manager.
the taffster
says...
1:43pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Neillo
says...
1:44pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Nice to hear from a Watford fan.
Didn't hear any at Vicarage Road the other week.
wiseman of hove
says...
1:49pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Dr Baldhead wrote:Eminently sensible post in my view.
Totally with Holloway on this. Watford are exploiting a loop hole to great effective. In his post match interview after Palace's match at Vicarage Road, he said the "loop" needed reviewing as it wasn't fair BUT also said good luck to Watford for seizing on what is currently a legally acceptable opportunity.
Gus has waded in with size 10s and probably unneccessarily wound a few people up. We all know that he and Zola are buddies and it's nice to support them, but Holloway was trying to draw attention to something that he said should be stopped IN THE FUTURE.
I don't think that many ordinary fans would be against stopping a repeat of such extensive loan dealings with overseas clubs before the start of the next season.
tug509
says...
1:54pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Not fringe players as ,not a regular,has stated above but full SerieA, will be deciding the future of OUR league!. UTA
not a regular
says...
2:00pm Fri 1 Mar 13
tug509 wrote:Erm, they're counted by FIFA, EUFA and the FA/FL as permanent transfers, so they can only be transferred during transfer windows.
If Watford dont get automatic promotion. What is stopping them from loaning 1st team players from Udinese and Granada to help them win the play-offs?. Not fringe players as ,not a regular,has stated above but full SerieA, will be deciding the future of OUR league!. UTA
The only type of player that we can bring in between now and July 1st are "emergency" loans from other English clubs. Just the same as every other team in the division.
mr punch
says...
2:15pm Fri 1 Mar 13
mark by the sea wrote:Best post of the lot Mark. No time for silly finger pointing and opinions. Time to concentrate on what we have to do and hope others can do an added job for us :)
Hope for a good atmosphere tomo, good luck to derby and especially Cardiff tomo!
tug509
says...
2:17pm Fri 1 Mar 13
not a regular wrote:You mean like Briggs yesterday?.
tug509 wrote:Erm, they're counted by FIFA, EUFA and the FA/FL as permanent transfers, so they can only be transferred during transfer windows.
If Watford dont get automatic promotion. What is stopping them from loaning 1st team players from Udinese and Granada to help them win the play-offs?. Not fringe players as ,not a regular,has stated above but full SerieA, will be deciding the future of OUR league!. UTA
The only type of player that we can bring in between now and July 1st are "emergency" loans from other English clubs. Just the same as every other team in the division.
not a regular
says...
2:33pm Fri 1 Mar 13
tug509 wrote:Yeah exactly like Briggs. That's what Holloway wants, surely? The chance for English talent to shine through?
not a regular wrote:You mean like Briggs yesterday?.tug509 wrote: If Watford dont get automatic promotion. What is stopping them from loaning 1st team players from Udinese and Granada to help them win the play-offs?. Not fringe players as ,not a regular,has stated above but full SerieA, will be deciding the future of OUR league!. UTAErm, they're counted by FIFA, EUFA and the FA/FL as permanent transfers, so they can only be transferred during transfer windows. The only type of player that we can bring in between now and July 1st are "emergency" loans from other English clubs. Just the same as every other team in the division.
Exactly like Shane Ferguson to Birmingham too, or Reece Brown to Ipswich, Sami Ameobi to Middlesbrough, Chris Martin to Derby and Obika to Charlton (shall I go on?)… Or is it OK for other clubs?
Bringe
says...
2:34pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Through sheer hard work Watfords owners have built up the worlds most extensive and profitable scouting network, they have discovered, developed and nurtured every player, they have not just dropped from outer space. Do people think this also unfair? because once again there is nothing to stop any other owner investing £4m a year into such a project.
That was an initial flurry given the short space of time and of course numbers will drop but unless Fifa actually change their rules you can't expect us not to use them.
The Pozzo families love of football will see that in time the Watford academy will blossom to match Udineses', they are builders not destroyers.
Good luck Brighton, I hope we get the second and you stuff Palace for the third promotion spot.
Jonathan Mouette
says...
4:42pm Fri 1 Mar 13
The criticism of Holloway (notably) and others was unnecessary - you don't always need to say what you think. There is a time and place for everything. Maybe as Gustavo and Gianfranco walk hand-in-hand into the Premier League... Ha! ha! Fingers crossed.
Hovite
says...
4:57pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Out of interest, is there a plan for Vicarage Road to increase it's capacity up from 17,000?
saraman
says...
5:35pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Hovite wrote:They surely must do. I'm sure it would be very difficult to compete in the PL on 17,000 gates, especially with the fair play rules. The Albion will get 30,000 plus. A minimum requirement I would say.
Thanks Bringe, have to say that if we were in your position, I would call it a shrewd footballing move. Out of interest, is there a plan for Vicarage Road to increase it's capacity up from 17,000?
Baldseagull
says...
6:25pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Good luck to them.
A season long loan is more permanent than Dobbie was.
Freeloaders
says...
7:02pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Hovite wrote:Can't believe im saying this but Hovite has got this 100% spot on with this post.
Firstly I congratulate Gus for stirring up a debate on here with interesting views.
I remember the days when you could only field two foreign players on match day but times have changed since then.
I watched the Holloway interview after Palace drew 2-2 with Watford and felt he had a point and he was right to raise it.
How many loan players should be allowed to play on match day?
If the rest of the Championship was filled with foreign loaned academy players, would this damage the development of English football at home and on the world stage?
Can we afford to let the rest of the world have this advantage over us?
I don’t mind foreign players being part of the English game, but only if they are serving permanent contracts and are working with home grown players.
If nobody stood up to air a view to help the game, we would still be playing 100 a side football, with no offside rule and playing with an out of shape pigs bladder.
tug509
says...
7:03pm Fri 1 Mar 13
not a regular wrote:No im saying that they are five players to five clubs,not fifteen to one. I wish Watford all the best,after all we have our spanish lads,...but Fifteen. The reason its a bad idea imho,is because at some time there has to be a conflict of interest,as when top teams across europe want their reserves in the league,how can that be good for the game. When Brighton were at the Withdean,there was one season when we started the league with only 22 players and 13 were Brighton lads,i think that was under Micky Adams. UTA
tug509 wrote:Yeah exactly like Briggs. That's what Holloway wants, surely? The chance for English talent to shine through?
not a regular wrote:You mean like Briggs yesterday?.tug509 wrote: If Watford dont get automatic promotion. What is stopping them from loaning 1st team players from Udinese and Granada to help them win the play-offs?. Not fringe players as ,not a regular,has stated above but full SerieA, will be deciding the future of OUR league!. UTAErm, they're counted by FIFA, EUFA and the FA/FL as permanent transfers, so they can only be transferred during transfer windows. The only type of player that we can bring in between now and July 1st are "emergency" loans from other English clubs. Just the same as every other team in the division.
Exactly like Shane Ferguson to Birmingham too, or Reece Brown to Ipswich, Sami Ameobi to Middlesbrough, Chris Martin to Derby and Obika to Charlton (shall I go on?)… Or is it OK for other clubs?
pte
says...
7:07pm Fri 1 Mar 13
Hoarder12345444 wrote:I cant stand him either and he's a very bad loser. Shouldnt think the players like him either. The wheels will come off palace during the run in.
I cant stand Holloway, he is very gobby jumped little idiot.
Gus's comment to shut up reminds me of the Joe Dolce song: "wass-a-matter-you? Hey gotta no respect, issa nice-a-place! Ah SHUT-UP- A YA FACE"!
Gibseagull says...
9:41am Fri 1 Mar 13