Barnes urges Albion to sign Mason

Joe Mason played with Ashley Barnes at Plymouth

Joe Mason played with Ashley Barnes at Plymouth

First published in Sport by , Chief sports reporter

Ashley Barnes has urged Albion to sign his pal Joe Mason – as his replacement.

Cardiff striker Mason and Bournemouth’s top scorer Lewis Grabban are two of the names on the Seagulls’ wanted list after Barnes moved to Burnley last week.

He was team-mates with Mason at Plymouth and believes the 22-year-old would be an excellent addition to Oscar Garcia’s strike force.

Barnes revealed to The Argus: “Joe is a good friend of mine and I still speak to him now. He’s a great player.

“He is a completely different player to me. When I played with him he was best probably playing off a striker or on the wing really.

“I wouldn’t class him as a main striker, because he is quite small, but then again Macca (Craig Mackail-Smith) is not the biggest and he is fantastic up front on his own.

“He is definitely worth signing, without a doubt. He has already been there and done it. He got promoted with Cardiff and look at the games he played for Cardiff.”

Mason has scored 18 goals in 43 starts and 34 substitute outings for Cardiff.

The £600,000-rated former Republic of Ireland under 21 international helped the Welshmen win the Championship last season but has not featured for them in the Premier League and is just back from a loan spell at Bolton Wanderers.

Comments (27)

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9:22am Wed 15 Jan 14

WisdomSpeaks says...

Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned.

I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes.

The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid.

There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't.

It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p
rices etc - but players - never!

I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters.

The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it.

Let's see what happens now.
Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned. I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes. The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid. There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't. It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p rices etc - but players - never! I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters. The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it. Let's see what happens now. WisdomSpeaks
  • Score: 17

9:38am Wed 15 Jan 14

the taffster says...

WisdomSpeaks wrote:
Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned.

I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes.

The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid.

There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't.

It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p

rices etc - but players - never!

I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters.

The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it.

Let's see what happens now.
you've been moaning for ages that barnes isn't good enough......now hes gone.....your all hypocrits.l
[quote][p][bold]WisdomSpeaks[/bold] wrote: Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned. I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes. The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid. There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't. It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p rices etc - but players - never! I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters. The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it. Let's see what happens now.[/p][/quote]you've been moaning for ages that barnes isn't good enough......now hes gone.....your all hypocrits.l the taffster
  • Score: 8

10:06am Wed 15 Jan 14

Aye Aye says...

Getting back on topic, if Mason is best feeding off a striker or playing on the wing, he isn't really our man, is he? We need somebody to bulge the opponents onion bag, surely!
Getting back on topic, if Mason is best feeding off a striker or playing on the wing, he isn't really our man, is he? We need somebody to bulge the opponents onion bag, surely! Aye Aye
  • Score: 2

10:10am Wed 15 Jan 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

"The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging"

Well, we will be fine then as we don't have a 'manager'. The rest of your argument is therefore basically moot.

David Burke's job is to bring in players. Barber's job is to finance them. OG's job is to coach them. Clear division of duties.
"The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging" Well, we will be fine then as we don't have a 'manager'. The rest of your argument is therefore basically moot. David Burke's job is to bring in players. Barber's job is to finance them. OG's job is to coach them. Clear division of duties. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 6

10:24am Wed 15 Jan 14

SeagullOverSelsey says...

Back to the Bridcutt situation,GP is about to make an increased offer for him,according to the Mail today and I find the paper is accurate most of the time.
Back to the Bridcutt situation,GP is about to make an increased offer for him,according to the Mail today and I find the paper is accurate most of the time. SeagullOverSelsey
  • Score: 0

10:30am Wed 15 Jan 14

WisdomSpeaks says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
"The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging"

Well, we will be fine then as we don't have a 'manager'. The rest of your argument is therefore basically moot.

David Burke's job is to bring in players. Barber's job is to finance them. OG's job is to coach them. Clear division of duties.
You're absolutely right - and maybe I didn't make it clear but that is exactly my concern. David Burke's job definitely is to bring in players AND they must ONLY be players who Head Coach wants. That is what my concern is - that, perhaps, that is not the case.

Having met and spoken to the guy, I don't get the sense that his past experience, knowledge of the game can compare with Oscar's and he doesn't have that ability. I know for certain that was when Gus Poyet began 'losing' it at the club. I simply don't want the same thing to happen again as I believe we have a first class man in Oscar Garcia.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: "The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging" Well, we will be fine then as we don't have a 'manager'. The rest of your argument is therefore basically moot. David Burke's job is to bring in players. Barber's job is to finance them. OG's job is to coach them. Clear division of duties.[/p][/quote]You're absolutely right - and maybe I didn't make it clear but that is exactly my concern. David Burke's job definitely is to bring in players AND they must ONLY be players who Head Coach wants. That is what my concern is - that, perhaps, that is not the case. Having met and spoken to the guy, I don't get the sense that his past experience, knowledge of the game can compare with Oscar's and he doesn't have that ability. I know for certain that was when Gus Poyet began 'losing' it at the club. I simply don't want the same thing to happen again as I believe we have a first class man in Oscar Garcia. WisdomSpeaks
  • Score: 0

10:38am Wed 15 Jan 14

WisdomSpeaks says...

IMHO if the Chairman and Board decide they wish to run the club with a 'Head/Director of Football - that is their perogative of course. However, in my opinion, that person must always be MORE experienced than the Head Coach/Manager so that there is a clear professional respect between them.

No one can prove to me that David Burke is more experienced in football players, playing in teams with them, finding them, coaching them or whatever, than Oscar Garcia/Gus Poyet or you name them. Maybe if Richard Tiltman was our Head Coach, then maybe - even that I'm not sure.
IMHO if the Chairman and Board decide they wish to run the club with a 'Head/Director of Football - that is their perogative of course. However, in my opinion, that person must always be MORE experienced than the Head Coach/Manager so that there is a clear professional respect between them. No one can prove to me that David Burke is more experienced in football players, playing in teams with them, finding them, coaching them or whatever, than Oscar Garcia/Gus Poyet or you name them. Maybe if Richard Tiltman was our Head Coach, then maybe - even that I'm not sure. WisdomSpeaks
  • Score: 0

10:58am Wed 15 Jan 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 10

11:01am Wed 15 Jan 14

Vince says...

Aye Aye wrote:
Getting back on topic, if Mason is best feeding off a striker or playing on the wing, he isn't really our man, is he? We need somebody to bulge the opponents onion bag, surely!
But Ings plays off Vokes - so why cant Mason play off Ulloa?
[quote][p][bold]Aye Aye[/bold] wrote: Getting back on topic, if Mason is best feeding off a striker or playing on the wing, he isn't really our man, is he? We need somebody to bulge the opponents onion bag, surely![/p][/quote]But Ings plays off Vokes - so why cant Mason play off Ulloa? Vince
  • Score: 5

11:14am Wed 15 Jan 14

WisdomSpeaks says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
Precisely my point. Robbie Savage - until now - has never had to earn his living discussing, analysing, pontificating about footballers and both Paul Hayward and Oliver Holt are two of my favourite footie journalists - but I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near a 'Head of Football' position.

I'm just of the opinion that those two positions - H of F and Head Coach have to be 'in tune'. IMHO when appointing a manage/head coach, if a Board decide they want a Head of Football, I believe they should request the guy they intend to appoint as Head Coach to NOMINATE his own head of football. Then if the club doesn't flourish and they decide they want to change the coach - the head of football has to go t0o. It's wrong that the coach keeps getting the bullet and the guy who is bringing in the players stays immune.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]Precisely my point. Robbie Savage - until now - has never had to earn his living discussing, analysing, pontificating about footballers and both Paul Hayward and Oliver Holt are two of my favourite footie journalists - but I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near a 'Head of Football' position. I'm just of the opinion that those two positions - H of F and Head Coach have to be 'in tune'. IMHO when appointing a manage/head coach, if a Board decide they want a Head of Football, I believe they should request the guy they intend to appoint as Head Coach to NOMINATE his own head of football. Then if the club doesn't flourish and they decide they want to change the coach - the head of football has to go t0o. It's wrong that the coach keeps getting the bullet and the guy who is bringing in the players stays immune. WisdomSpeaks
  • Score: -2

11:31am Wed 15 Jan 14

Claude Back says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately.
I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy.
If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately. I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy. If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city. Claude Back
  • Score: -2

11:57am Wed 15 Jan 14

B.W. says...

Gus didn't leave. He was thrown out. Gross misconduct.

Selling Barnes now made financial sense (for our club). More than £750k now. £0 in the summer. Ash wanted to leave. The club sold him.

The conspiracy theory view of the above poster is utter nonsense. Oscar will be more than happy provided a similar standard or better striker comes in.
Gus didn't leave. He was thrown out. Gross misconduct. Selling Barnes now made financial sense (for our club). More than £750k now. £0 in the summer. Ash wanted to leave. The club sold him. The conspiracy theory view of the above poster is utter nonsense. Oscar will be more than happy provided a similar standard or better striker comes in. B.W.
  • Score: 4

12:16pm Wed 15 Jan 14

rolivan says...

WisdomSpeaks wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
Precisely my point. Robbie Savage - until now - has never had to earn his living discussing, analysing, pontificating about footballers and both Paul Hayward and Oliver Holt are two of my favourite footie journalists - but I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near a 'Head of Football' position.

I'm just of the opinion that those two positions - H of F and Head Coach have to be 'in tune'. IMHO when appointing a manage/head coach, if a Board decide they want a Head of Football, I believe they should request the guy they intend to appoint as Head Coach to NOMINATE his own head of football. Then if the club doesn't flourish and they decide they want to change the coach - the head of football has to go t0o. It's wrong that the coach keeps getting the bullet and the guy who is bringing in the players stays immune.
The Squad has improved after every transfer window so I think the system is working.
[quote][p][bold]WisdomSpeaks[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]Precisely my point. Robbie Savage - until now - has never had to earn his living discussing, analysing, pontificating about footballers and both Paul Hayward and Oliver Holt are two of my favourite footie journalists - but I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near a 'Head of Football' position. I'm just of the opinion that those two positions - H of F and Head Coach have to be 'in tune'. IMHO when appointing a manage/head coach, if a Board decide they want a Head of Football, I believe they should request the guy they intend to appoint as Head Coach to NOMINATE his own head of football. Then if the club doesn't flourish and they decide they want to change the coach - the head of football has to go t0o. It's wrong that the coach keeps getting the bullet and the guy who is bringing in the players stays immune.[/p][/quote]The Squad has improved after every transfer window so I think the system is working. rolivan
  • Score: 10

12:24pm Wed 15 Jan 14

rolivan says...

Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately.
I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy.
If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.
Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years.
[quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately. I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy. If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.[/p][/quote]Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years. rolivan
  • Score: 3

12:34pm Wed 15 Jan 14

VegasSeagull says...

Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter.
Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year.
Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted.
Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer.

Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.
Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter. Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year. Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted. Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer. Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 3

12:57pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Claude Back says...

B.W. wrote:
Gus didn't leave. He was thrown out. Gross misconduct.

Selling Barnes now made financial sense (for our club). More than £750k now. £0 in the summer. Ash wanted to leave. The club sold him.

The conspiracy theory view of the above poster is utter nonsense. Oscar will be more than happy provided a similar standard or better striker comes in.
Sorry, but you don'y know what you're talking about. What conspiracy theory from whom? If it's me then I never mentioned anything about conspiracy, only the facts.
[quote][p][bold]B.W.[/bold] wrote: Gus didn't leave. He was thrown out. Gross misconduct. Selling Barnes now made financial sense (for our club). More than £750k now. £0 in the summer. Ash wanted to leave. The club sold him. The conspiracy theory view of the above poster is utter nonsense. Oscar will be more than happy provided a similar standard or better striker comes in.[/p][/quote]Sorry, but you don'y know what you're talking about. What conspiracy theory from whom? If it's me then I never mentioned anything about conspiracy, only the facts. Claude Back
  • Score: -4

1:01pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Claude Back says...

rolivan wrote:
Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately.
I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy.
If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.
Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years.
Don't be so precious about the Albion.
Yes, the Club are doing well but that is not what Wisdom speaks or I were debating and doesn't mean we cannot do even better.
Sometimes it just seems to be a case of 'Pearls before swine' on here. Look up the whole quotation before you take offence.
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately. I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy. If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.[/p][/quote]Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years.[/p][/quote]Don't be so precious about the Albion. Yes, the Club are doing well but that is not what Wisdom speaks or I were debating and doesn't mean we cannot do even better. Sometimes it just seems to be a case of 'Pearls before swine' on here. Look up the whole quotation before you take offence. Claude Back
  • Score: -1

1:09pm Wed 15 Jan 14

the taffster says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter.
Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year.
Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted.
Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer.

Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.
problem is are you going to get a s triker for 750,000....as good as barnes...no.
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter. Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year. Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted. Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer. Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.[/p][/quote]problem is are you going to get a s triker for 750,000....as good as barnes...no. the taffster
  • Score: -2

1:17pm Wed 15 Jan 14

VegasSeagull says...

the taffster wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter.
Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year.
Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted.
Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer.

Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.
problem is are you going to get a s triker for 750,000....as good as barnes...no.
Taffster, I want one who is better than Barnes and maybe will cost us a little more. 750k+ was a good deal for us, considering how long he had left on his contract. Could we get a better player for say, 1.2 million, maybe a net cost to us of 400K, I think we could. Mason could come for just 600K, would he be a better option, he might.
[quote][p][bold]the taffster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter. Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year. Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted. Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer. Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.[/p][/quote]problem is are you going to get a s triker for 750,000....as good as barnes...no.[/p][/quote]Taffster, I want one who is better than Barnes and maybe will cost us a little more. 750k+ was a good deal for us, considering how long he had left on his contract. Could we get a better player for say, 1.2 million, maybe a net cost to us of 400K, I think we could. Mason could come for just 600K, would he be a better option, he might. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 4

1:51pm Wed 15 Jan 14

tinker111 says...

WisdomSpeaks wrote:
Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned.

I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes.

The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid.

There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't.

It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p

rices etc - but players - never!

I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters.

The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it.

Let's see what happens now.
OG Will never get backed he has to work with what the DOF ( BURKE) see;s fit and if he is any Man he should get out LIKE GREAT GUS WHO STOOD UP as for Bournemouth player just keep fans happy rubbish not even an approach to AFC B
[quote][p][bold]WisdomSpeaks[/bold] wrote: Having just read Ashley Barnes' full article as to why he left - and watched Oscar's post match Press Conference on Seagull Player - it's very clear that Oscar has not been supported with the Barnes situation, and, I would guess it's the way the club is run now and I'm very concerned. I totally concur that any manager has to work within the financial budgets set by the Directorate. However, my concern is that David Burke has been given too much say as to WHO comes and WHO goes. The minute players realise that their manager is not really THE MAIN MAN - believe me the club is on a slippery slope as there is a subtle shift in energy. The manager's job in a football club is such a unique and challenging one as football has so many opinions, which are all very valid. There is only one opinion that is really meaningful when it comes to players and that is the opinion of the man who is responsible, and whose job is always on the line, and who is working with the players day in and day out, picks the team, sees their influence among the other players. The only person who has that benefit is THE MANAGER/HEAD COACH. We die hard supporters don't, the Head of Football Operations doesn't, the Chairman doesn't. It is very clear if you watch that Seagulls Player interview of Oscar's that he definitely did not want Barnes to go and he, being far more balanced than Gus, let it be known in a far more subtle manner. that it was 'others' who made that decision. I'm concerned that at times our Head of Football listens to the opinions of the crowd too much. I am one of that crowd and I have my opinions and I could be critical of Ashley Barnes as many others -but I certainly don't want a club who listens to my opinions about players and tactics - it doesn't prevent me from having the right to them and enjoying that - but I would be horrified if I thought the club listened to opinions about players from others over and above those opinions of the manager alone. I do expect them to act on opinions of the majority about transport/catering/p rices etc - but players - never! I cannot believe that it was a financial decision either. Is it really going to cost the club less by bringing in a replacement when you consider transfer fee, wages, relocation etc etc. Ashley clearly wanted to stay and if he had been offered a reasonable new contract, or the club were at least prepared to DISCUSS and negotiate another offer I'm sure he would have stayed. And that's all that matters. The main thing is though, the relationship between the Manager and The Head of Football whatever they call him. If that is sound and solid and close then, even when the manager doesn't agree with the H of F he doesn't come out and intimate he didn't agree. he would come out and emphasise it was HIS decision and he is happy with it. Let's see what happens now.[/p][/quote]OG Will never get backed he has to work with what the DOF ( BURKE) see;s fit and if he is any Man he should get out LIKE GREAT GUS WHO STOOD UP as for Bournemouth player just keep fans happy rubbish not even an approach to AFC B tinker111
  • Score: -3

2:32pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Claude Claude Claude...

"It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in."

OG is not a manager of any kind, he is a coach. The Head Coach. Therefore it IS his job solely to coach. He said when he joined he would need to rely on other to bring players in. So, not only is he not a puppet manager, he is not a manager of any kind.

"If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that."

That is your opinion and I totally respect that. None of us know how Burke and Gus split the job of recruiting, so we cannot say for sure that Burke is poor at it. Also we are operating under greater financial constraints than previously and that is probably what caused the internal ructions between the board and Gus.

"If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city."

Whammo! And here it is, the ridiculous, pointless, absurd comment that seems designed purely to undermine and ruin your own argument. For the last time (I seem to have to tell you this more often than is necessary), I have seen several games at the Amex this season, and this is because although my primary residence is overseas I spend a lot of my time in Brighton. Do you understand now? Travel - it makes the world so much smaller.

However, notwithstanding that, how arrogant are you to think that only someone living in the town can truly understand what is going on behind the closed doors of the stadium? Please tell me what you see and hear on the city streets that makes the slightest bit of difference in how well you can properly understand what is happening at the club.

The club is not only for locals, and neither is knowledge.
Claude Claude Claude... "It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in." OG is not a manager of any kind, he is a coach. The Head Coach. Therefore it IS his job solely to coach. He said when he joined he would need to rely on other to bring players in. So, not only is he not a puppet manager, he is not a manager of any kind. "If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that." That is your opinion and I totally respect that. None of us know how Burke and Gus split the job of recruiting, so we cannot say for sure that Burke is poor at it. Also we are operating under greater financial constraints than previously and that is probably what caused the internal ructions between the board and Gus. "If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city." Whammo! And here it is, the ridiculous, pointless, absurd comment that seems designed purely to undermine and ruin your own argument. For the last time (I seem to have to tell you this more often than is necessary), I have seen several games at the Amex this season, and this is because although my primary residence is overseas I spend a lot of my time in Brighton. Do you understand now? Travel - it makes the world so much smaller. However, notwithstanding that, how arrogant are you to think that only someone living in the town can truly understand what is going on behind the closed doors of the stadium? Please tell me what you see and hear on the city streets that makes the slightest bit of difference in how well you can properly understand what is happening at the club. The club is not only for locals, and neither is knowledge. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 4

2:41pm Wed 15 Jan 14

VegasSeagull says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Claude Claude Claude...

"It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in."

OG is not a manager of any kind, he is a coach. The Head Coach. Therefore it IS his job solely to coach. He said when he joined he would need to rely on other to bring players in. So, not only is he not a puppet manager, he is not a manager of any kind.

"If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that."

That is your opinion and I totally respect that. None of us know how Burke and Gus split the job of recruiting, so we cannot say for sure that Burke is poor at it. Also we are operating under greater financial constraints than previously and that is probably what caused the internal ructions between the board and Gus.

"If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city."

Whammo! And here it is, the ridiculous, pointless, absurd comment that seems designed purely to undermine and ruin your own argument. For the last time (I seem to have to tell you this more often than is necessary), I have seen several games at the Amex this season, and this is because although my primary residence is overseas I spend a lot of my time in Brighton. Do you understand now? Travel - it makes the world so much smaller.

However, notwithstanding that, how arrogant are you to think that only someone living in the town can truly understand what is going on behind the closed doors of the stadium? Please tell me what you see and hear on the city streets that makes the slightest bit of difference in how well you can properly understand what is happening at the club.

The club is not only for locals, and neither is knowledge.
Well obviously I don't get to see Brighton play too often, I have attended the Amex on a few occasions, but largely I am reduced to watching on my pc when they are being televised.
When Claude suggests that not being in the city leaves us expats somewhat out of the loop, I don't get that. Fans in Brighton talk about what the club and local newspaper tell them, and when they get told we get told. The fans reports of the matches that they attend are known to us via this site, ok a small sample but at least we get them.
Claude, what can you learn by being in the city that us expats can't learn? As I see it your only real advantage is that you can talk to a wider group of people than we can. Now that is a good thing, I'll give you that, but what you are hearing is probably not that different to what we hear on this forum, just more of it.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Claude Claude Claude... "It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in." OG is not a manager of any kind, he is a coach. The Head Coach. Therefore it IS his job solely to coach. He said when he joined he would need to rely on other to bring players in. So, not only is he not a puppet manager, he is not a manager of any kind. "If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that." That is your opinion and I totally respect that. None of us know how Burke and Gus split the job of recruiting, so we cannot say for sure that Burke is poor at it. Also we are operating under greater financial constraints than previously and that is probably what caused the internal ructions between the board and Gus. "If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city." Whammo! And here it is, the ridiculous, pointless, absurd comment that seems designed purely to undermine and ruin your own argument. For the last time (I seem to have to tell you this more often than is necessary), I have seen several games at the Amex this season, and this is because although my primary residence is overseas I spend a lot of my time in Brighton. Do you understand now? Travel - it makes the world so much smaller. However, notwithstanding that, how arrogant are you to think that only someone living in the town can truly understand what is going on behind the closed doors of the stadium? Please tell me what you see and hear on the city streets that makes the slightest bit of difference in how well you can properly understand what is happening at the club. The club is not only for locals, and neither is knowledge.[/p][/quote]Well obviously I don't get to see Brighton play too often, I have attended the Amex on a few occasions, but largely I am reduced to watching on my pc when they are being televised. When Claude suggests that not being in the city leaves us expats somewhat out of the loop, I don't get that. Fans in Brighton talk about what the club and local newspaper tell them, and when they get told we get told. The fans reports of the matches that they attend are known to us via this site, ok a small sample but at least we get them. Claude, what can you learn by being in the city that us expats can't learn? As I see it your only real advantage is that you can talk to a wider group of people than we can. Now that is a good thing, I'll give you that, but what you are hearing is probably not that different to what we hear on this forum, just more of it. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 1

4:08pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Baldseagull says...

Claude Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately.
I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy.
If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.
Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years.
Don't be so precious about the Albion.
Yes, the Club are doing well but that is not what Wisdom speaks or I were debating and doesn't mean we cannot do even better.
Sometimes it just seems to be a case of 'Pearls before swine' on here. Look up the whole quotation before you take offence.
I am aware of the quotation, and I don't take offence, but it does show your arrogance. You imply that others that disagree with you do so because they lack the sophistication to understand, or appreciate your point. Even if someone has misunderstood you, accept that it may be because you are not quite the communicator you think you are.
Ironically, I think you are failing to recognise the benefits of the way the roles are.
It must be easier to get a player performing if you are not at the same time negotiating his pay and conditions, keeping an eye on who might be available to replace him if negotiations fail and having to tell him you don't think he is worth as much as he does, or as much as another squad member
Oscar may be unhappy to have lost Barnes, I presume that Burke is too as he did offer him a contract. Oscar's disappointment to have lost Barnes does not mean he is unhappy with Burke though. If you have heard something different from a bloke down the pub then please share it.
[quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately. I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy. If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.[/p][/quote]Yes like the Greens are making a terrible job of running the City and that they are not allowed to drive above 20.I was over at Christmas and all I heard was how well the club were doing.Some people will never be satisfied You only have to look at the way some Premiership Clubs are being run.Think back 5 years.[/p][/quote]Don't be so precious about the Albion. Yes, the Club are doing well but that is not what Wisdom speaks or I were debating and doesn't mean we cannot do even better. Sometimes it just seems to be a case of 'Pearls before swine' on here. Look up the whole quotation before you take offence.[/p][/quote]I am aware of the quotation, and I don't take offence, but it does show your arrogance. You imply that others that disagree with you do so because they lack the sophistication to understand, or appreciate your point. Even if someone has misunderstood you, accept that it may be because you are not quite the communicator you think you are. Ironically, I think you are failing to recognise the benefits of the way the roles are. It must be easier to get a player performing if you are not at the same time negotiating his pay and conditions, keeping an eye on who might be available to replace him if negotiations fail and having to tell him you don't think he is worth as much as he does, or as much as another squad member Oscar may be unhappy to have lost Barnes, I presume that Burke is too as he did offer him a contract. Oscar's disappointment to have lost Barnes does not mean he is unhappy with Burke though. If you have heard something different from a bloke down the pub then please share it. Baldseagull
  • Score: 7

11:24pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Clean Sheet says...

The facts are that our squad is one of the best in the division. Burke has to take some credit for that. When we landed Ulloa last year, I was very sceptical, why would we pay £2 mil for a div 2 Player from Spain? How wrong was I? His goal record for us is fantastic! Ward has proven a really capable replacement for WB. These are just 2 example. So whatever Burke is doing wrong for some of you guys, he can keep doing it wrong in my view.
The facts are that our squad is one of the best in the division. Burke has to take some credit for that. When we landed Ulloa last year, I was very sceptical, why would we pay £2 mil for a div 2 Player from Spain? How wrong was I? His goal record for us is fantastic! Ward has proven a really capable replacement for WB. These are just 2 example. So whatever Burke is doing wrong for some of you guys, he can keep doing it wrong in my view. Clean Sheet
  • Score: 2

8:46am Thu 16 Jan 14

OldGull says...

SeagullOverSelsey wrote:
Back to the Bridcutt situation,GP is about to make an increased offer for him,according to the Mail today and I find the paper is accurate most of the time.
You find the Mail accurate?

God help us! Perhaps we have all got half a dozen Eastern Europeans living in our attic
[quote][p][bold]SeagullOverSelsey[/bold] wrote: Back to the Bridcutt situation,GP is about to make an increased offer for him,according to the Mail today and I find the paper is accurate most of the time.[/p][/quote]You find the Mail accurate? God help us! Perhaps we have all got half a dozen Eastern Europeans living in our attic OldGull
  • Score: 3

8:55am Thu 16 Jan 14

OldGull says...

Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle.

What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.
That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately.
I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy.
If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.
Not so sure on that.
Did Gus not bring in a few dodgy Argentinians before we got the Good one.

Burke was already in place when Ulloa arrived, do you know who did the deal?
And what about Ince?
By then Gus was already making noises.
Was it not Gus who got us Paynter & Dobbie?
Let Burke carry on finding them and OG can concentrate on training them.
It's working so why fix it?
[quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: You don't need to be an ex-player to have a deep understanding of the game and its participants. For example, all pundits on MOTD are ex-players but is Robbie Savage really a better option for analysis than say Paul Hayward or Oliver Holt? The best football discussion programme ever had Brian Woolnough and other journos talking around a table. Hansen, Fowler et al cannot hold a candle. What I'm saying in a surprisingly roundabout way is that Burke doesn't need to have been a decent player to find those who are.[/p][/quote]That's right; Burke doesn't - but I still think Gus was a much better judge of a player than Burke and that is why he left ultimately. I agree with practically all of what Wisdom Speaks said in the opening comment here. You wouldn't get Arsene Wenger or Fergie or Cloughie being told what players they were going to have and just get on and coach them, would you? The best managers/coaches are always the ones who have the final say on which players to buy. They know what attributes they are looking for specifically and what they might be able to do with them. If your manager is a good judge of a player then the team prospers. Always has been; always will be.If they are not, they cannot build a successful team.That is why Wisdom is worried and so am I along with many others. It seems to me that Oscar is just a puppet manager whose job is solely to coach the players Burke and others bring in. If Burke is a good judge of a player then no need to worry. However, I am not at all convinced of that. That's why Gus got into trouble with the hierarchy. If all you posters who live abroad were here you would be more cognisant of what was really happening and being said around the city.[/p][/quote]Not so sure on that. Did Gus not bring in a few dodgy Argentinians before we got the Good one. Burke was already in place when Ulloa arrived, do you know who did the deal? And what about Ince? By then Gus was already making noises. Was it not Gus who got us Paynter & Dobbie? Let Burke carry on finding them and OG can concentrate on training them. It's working so why fix it? OldGull
  • Score: 1

7:41pm Thu 16 Jan 14

albion64 says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter.
Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year.
Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted.
Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer.

Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.
I have got to be honest, I don't agree with most of the stuff you come out with and boy it's a lot. But you are spot on here IMHO. I have said for ages that Barnes wouldn't be good enough to carry the premiership flag.

Of course he can now get promoted with Burnley and prove most of us wrong and good luck to him if he does. He certainly won't last 5 minutes with his temperament. The prem' defenders will wind him up non stop. The championship is a doddle in comparison. Let's move on and get behind our current players. UTA
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: Hands up all those that think Barnes is now, or will be next year, a prem level striker, or any other position for that matter. Hands up all those that want Brighton promoted this year. Hands up all those that those that think Barnes would have been a bench warmer for us if we get promoted. Hands up all those that would offer a three and a half year deal to a bench warmer. Ash was offered a contract that would have at least seen him thru the remainder of this season ad probably all of next. From a business stand point, if we get promoted the deal is right for the club, if we don't, he might well have been offered an extension or allowed to leave for a fee. If that was Burke's doing, then well done Mr. Burke, as a promotion challenging club the deal offered makes financial sense.[/p][/quote]I have got to be honest, I don't agree with most of the stuff you come out with and boy it's a lot. But you are spot on here IMHO. I have said for ages that Barnes wouldn't be good enough to carry the premiership flag. Of course he can now get promoted with Burnley and prove most of us wrong and good luck to him if he does. He certainly won't last 5 minutes with his temperament. The prem' defenders will wind him up non stop. The championship is a doddle in comparison. Let's move on and get behind our current players. UTA albion64
  • Score: 2

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