The ArgusAlbion chief says head coach role is right for the club (From The Argus)

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Albion chief says head coach role is right for the club

The Argus: Paul Barber Paul Barber

Albion chief executive Paul Barber has hailed the shift from manager to head coach as the right way forward for the club.

The Seagulls have pressed on with a structure they believe suits them better since the acrimonious dismissal of Gus Poyet last summer and the appointment of Oscar Garcia.

Oscar, as his title suggests, essentially coaches the team. He is not involved to the same extent that Poyet was initially in matters such as player recruitment before an erosion of the Uruguayan's powers signalled the start of his dispute with the club.

Albion are now less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager such as the man in charge of Tuesday's visitors, Queens Park Rangers.

When Harry Redknapp leaves Loftus Road then Kevin Bond (assistant), Joe Jordan (first team coach) and Wally Downes (coach) will probably all go as well.

Similarly Mauricio Taricco, Charlie Oatway and Andy Beasley have all followed Poyet from the Amex to Sunderland.

Albion post-Oscar would not be subject to the same level of change. The Spaniard brought with him Juan Torrijo (fitness coach) and Ruben Martinez (goalkeeping coach).

Assistant Nathan Jones, the Spanish-speaking Welshman who played for the Seagulls, is not linked in quite the same way.

And, once Oscar's reign is over, David Burke is still likely to be head of football operations, Mervyn Day head of scouting and recruitment.

Barber told The Argus: "I have worked in football clubs where there has been a director of football and a head coach and where there has been a manager.

"Both have positives and negatives. The reality these days is there is a huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team.

"If there was nobody else around looking at scouting players, preparing scouting reports, looking at possible loan window targets, looking at possible transfer targets in the summer, thinking about the player contracts, I think that would be an impossible task for Oscar.

"Certainly in a club like ours splitting those two roles I think is a very positive thing and I don't know too many clubs, even those that have a more traditional manager, that don't have someone in the background who is doing the role of a director football or head of football operations or technical director, or what ever title you want to call it."

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6:07pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 5

6:24pm Fri 7 Mar 14

raymondo999 says...

How can anyone possibly suggest the 'Arry is destabilising? He's as honest as the day is long. Has a lovely house on sandbanks and a lovely boy who charms us on television. OK introduce a new management system if you must but leave Mr redknapp out of it.
How can anyone possibly suggest the 'Arry is destabilising? He's as honest as the day is long. Has a lovely house on sandbanks and a lovely boy who charms us on television. OK introduce a new management system if you must but leave Mr redknapp out of it. raymondo999
  • Score: -15

6:38pm Fri 7 Mar 14

VegasSeagull says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 4

6:48pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-) Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 10

6:50pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Claude Back says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
No, it doesn't !
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)[/p][/quote]No, it doesn't ! Claude Back
  • Score: -9

6:50pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Claude Back says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
No, it doesn't !
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)[/p][/quote]No, it doesn't ! Claude Back
  • Score: -6

6:53pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
No, it doesn't !
Qu'elle surprise. You would actually be happy if he is indeed as good as I think he is.

Who would you have then? Would you go for a coach, or a 'manager'?
[quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)[/p][/quote]No, it doesn't ![/p][/quote]Qu'elle surprise. You would actually be happy if he is indeed as good as I think he is. Who would you have then? Would you go for a coach, or a 'manager'? Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 3

6:56pm Fri 7 Mar 14

brighton bluenose says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Have you been paying attention since last summer FFS??!!! We all KNOW that it is Burke who will 'offer up' the three or so options you refer to and OG has to choose from these! The best teams are not made by committee but by a manager who knows his players, knows his league (and the one above!) and buys accordingly!!
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Have you been paying attention since last summer FFS??!!! We all KNOW that it is Burke who will 'offer up' the three or so options you refer to and OG has to choose from these! The best teams are not made by committee but by a manager who knows his players, knows his league (and the one above!) and buys accordingly!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 0

7:00pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know? Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 3

7:08pm Fri 7 Mar 14

dazzler1983 says...

GET A GRIP ARGUS! OLD NEWS AS EVER! YES IT WAS A Q&A WITH PB 2 WEEKS AGO!!!!!!!!!! I wonder how much Mr Naylor gets paid for being 2 weeks behind,if I was that slow in my job I'd be getting a p45.
GET A GRIP ARGUS! OLD NEWS AS EVER! YES IT WAS A Q&A WITH PB 2 WEEKS AGO!!!!!!!!!! I wonder how much Mr Naylor gets paid for being 2 weeks behind,if I was that slow in my job I'd be getting a p45. dazzler1983
  • Score: 1

7:16pm Fri 7 Mar 14

VegasSeagull says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Claude Back wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
No, it doesn't !
Qu'elle surprise. You would actually be happy if he is indeed as good as I think he is.

Who would you have then? Would you go for a coach, or a 'manager'?
don't hold your breath Ex Pat, looks like a hit and run job to me
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Claude Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)[/p][/quote]No, it doesn't ![/p][/quote]Qu'elle surprise. You would actually be happy if he is indeed as good as I think he is. Who would you have then? Would you go for a coach, or a 'manager'?[/p][/quote]don't hold your breath Ex Pat, looks like a hit and run job to me VegasSeagull
  • Score: -2

7:17pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Steveg1958 says...

So now it starts to come out, Gus's powers over how the football side of the club was organised, presumably once the wonderful M Barber arrived.

Not sure I like the sound of this, the article says OG brought in his fellow Spannish coaching staff, and clearly they would not stay if he left, BUT NJ isn't in that group apparently ! so who is earmarked to take over from Oscar then I wonder. I'm sorry apart from getting the club run on a good financial footie exactly what good has Mr Barber done for the team ? Football people should be responsible for the football part of the business and business people should look after the business side .
So now it starts to come out, Gus's powers over how the football side of the club was organised, presumably once the wonderful M Barber arrived. Not sure I like the sound of this, the article says OG brought in his fellow Spannish coaching staff, and clearly they would not stay if he left, BUT NJ isn't in that group apparently ! so who is earmarked to take over from Oscar then I wonder. I'm sorry apart from getting the club run on a good financial footie exactly what good has Mr Barber done for the team ? Football people should be responsible for the football part of the business and business people should look after the business side . Steveg1958
  • Score: 6

7:18pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Neville says...

Yes this was taken from qa session with PB,however the destabilisation started when all three were suspended by the board,so equal blame due. Several other back room staff have also left including the analysis team and a few others.This system will obviously suit PB and associates as they will completely control the finances.
Yes this was taken from qa session with PB,however the destabilisation started when all three were suspended by the board,so equal blame due. Several other back room staff have also left including the analysis team and a few others.This system will obviously suit PB and associates as they will completely control the finances. Neville
  • Score: 3

7:20pm Fri 7 Mar 14

wiseman of hove says...

As far as the Albion is concerned, surely the jury is out on the issue of 'manager' or 'head coach' ? All the signs are that Oscar is an excellent coach but something has not worked this season regarding our transfer/loan 'selections'. I'm yet to be convinced by Oscar's support team. I was not distraught to see our former manager depart but he left a very strong nucleus of players which is a significant factor as to why we are still hanging in there, despite so many injuries.
As far as the Albion is concerned, surely the jury is out on the issue of 'manager' or 'head coach' ? All the signs are that Oscar is an excellent coach but something has not worked this season regarding our transfer/loan 'selections'. I'm yet to be convinced by Oscar's support team. I was not distraught to see our former manager depart but he left a very strong nucleus of players which is a significant factor as to why we are still hanging in there, despite so many injuries. wiseman of hove
  • Score: 2

7:23pm Fri 7 Mar 14

VegasSeagull says...

To those who think that we should have a more traditional Manager rather than a Head Coach, what do you think we lose by having the latter?
To those who think that we should have a more traditional Manager rather than a Head Coach, what do you think we lose by having the latter? VegasSeagull
  • Score: 1

7:30pm Fri 7 Mar 14

OldGull says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players????

I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players???? I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players? OldGull
  • Score: 1

7:43pm Fri 7 Mar 14

VegasSeagull says...

Steveg1958 wrote:
So now it starts to come out, Gus's powers over how the football side of the club was organised, presumably once the wonderful M Barber arrived.

Not sure I like the sound of this, the article says OG brought in his fellow Spannish coaching staff, and clearly they would not stay if he left, BUT NJ isn't in that group apparently ! so who is earmarked to take over from Oscar then I wonder. I'm sorry apart from getting the club run on a good financial footie exactly what good has Mr Barber done for the team ? Football people should be responsible for the football part of the business and business people should look after the business side .
Steve you ask what Barber does that is, 'good for the team,' but you recognize that he has the club on a, 'good financial footing,' do not these factors go together?
If the club is financially sound does that not bode well for transfer budgets? Having the money to buy or borrow players is essential if we are to strengthen the squad as needed and the stronger the squad, the better our future.

Barber is a money man, his role is to balance the books and to say yes when he can and no when he has to for the good of the club as a whole. The employment and financial security that players want comes from his efforts, all the time they are delivering what is expected from them he will deliver the wages. I think it fair to say that accountants are respected rather than liked, and at the end of the day that's what Barber is, an accountant, and I for one respect what he is doing for the good of the club.
[quote][p][bold]Steveg1958[/bold] wrote: So now it starts to come out, Gus's powers over how the football side of the club was organised, presumably once the wonderful M Barber arrived. Not sure I like the sound of this, the article says OG brought in his fellow Spannish coaching staff, and clearly they would not stay if he left, BUT NJ isn't in that group apparently ! so who is earmarked to take over from Oscar then I wonder. I'm sorry apart from getting the club run on a good financial footie exactly what good has Mr Barber done for the team ? Football people should be responsible for the football part of the business and business people should look after the business side .[/p][/quote]Steve you ask what Barber does that is, 'good for the team,' but you recognize that he has the club on a, 'good financial footing,' do not these factors go together? If the club is financially sound does that not bode well for transfer budgets? Having the money to buy or borrow players is essential if we are to strengthen the squad as needed and the stronger the squad, the better our future. Barber is a money man, his role is to balance the books and to say yes when he can and no when he has to for the good of the club as a whole. The employment and financial security that players want comes from his efforts, all the time they are delivering what is expected from them he will deliver the wages. I think it fair to say that accountants are respected rather than liked, and at the end of the day that's what Barber is, an accountant, and I for one respect what he is doing for the good of the club. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 8

7:44pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

OldGull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players????

I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?
There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation.

I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want.
[quote][p][bold]OldGull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players???? I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?[/p][/quote]There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation. I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 3

7:54pm Fri 7 Mar 14

ringtone says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back?

In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.
I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue.

All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.
Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)
Not . only for posters with palace connections
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Has this been taken from the Q&A video posted a couple of Fridays back? In any case, hopefully this will clear a few things up for those who still insist we would be better with an 'old-skool' manager rather than head coach.[/p][/quote]I saw that interview and I am pretty sure that this is new stuff from Barber. I think his words give us some insight into what was a problem for Poyet, perhaps his control was going to diminish and Poyet wasn't up for that, plus the FFP issue. All the while we are in the champ div Oscar won't be selecting a, 'single,' target to sign, my guess he will offer up two or three names for a particular spot, taking into account the scouting reports, and then Burke goes to work on getting one of them. The more time Oscar has to work with the players the better, and he will need a lot of time once our academy is up and running, I can see Oscar having total control over youth policy.[/p][/quote]Agreed - I really hope OG is here for the long haul. Just think what he could achieve in say 5 years, assuming he's as good as we think he probably is. It raises a smile, does it not? :-)[/p][/quote]Not . only for posters with palace connections ringtone
  • Score: -5

7:55pm Fri 7 Mar 14

ringtone says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
To those who think that we should have a more traditional Manager rather than a Head Coach, what do you think we lose by having the latter?
Games
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: To those who think that we should have a more traditional Manager rather than a Head Coach, what do you think we lose by having the latter?[/p][/quote]Games ringtone
  • Score: 0

7:56pm Fri 7 Mar 14

sussexram40 says...

Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.
Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager. sussexram40
  • Score: 0

7:56pm Fri 7 Mar 14

brighton bluenose says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG!
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 4

8:01pm Fri 7 Mar 14

ringtone says...

sussexram40 wrote:
Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.
Spot on Sussexram. This ends the argument
[quote][p][bold]sussexram40[/bold] wrote: Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.[/p][/quote]Spot on Sussexram. This ends the argument ringtone
  • Score: -6

8:07pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG!
It is experience that will make him better, not necessarily English experience.

For instance, if he'd been over here last season he'd have known that Burnley were a dodgy outfit and would probably be lower mid-table this season, but Watford were a class act and would be favourites for automatic promotion. It hasn't quite worked out like that.

He will have colleagues scouting each and every one of his upcoming opponents who will give him reports on dangermen, likely tactics and their variations, weaknesses, etc. Having watched them last season will be of no benefit to him at all.

What I'm saying is, teams and managers and players change so much from one season to the next that anything you've learned 12 months ago can be tossed away during the close season as an irrelevance.
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG![/p][/quote]It is experience that will make him better, not necessarily English experience. For instance, if he'd been over here last season he'd have known that Burnley were a dodgy outfit and would probably be lower mid-table this season, but Watford were a class act and would be favourites for automatic promotion. It hasn't quite worked out like that. He will have colleagues scouting each and every one of his upcoming opponents who will give him reports on dangermen, likely tactics and their variations, weaknesses, etc. Having watched them last season will be of no benefit to him at all. What I'm saying is, teams and managers and players change so much from one season to the next that anything you've learned 12 months ago can be tossed away during the close season as an irrelevance. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 4

8:11pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

sussexram40 wrote:
Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.
Right... so long as you don't include Barcelona, who did rather well with a DoF, a man now at Man City.
[quote][p][bold]sussexram40[/bold] wrote: Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.[/p][/quote]Right... so long as you don't include Barcelona, who did rather well with a DoF, a man now at Man City. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 2

8:29pm Fri 7 Mar 14

ringtone says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
sussexram40 wrote:
Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.
Right... so long as you don't include Barcelona, who did rather well with a DoF, a man now at Man City.
The exception always proves the rule, dear boy.

Please provide other examples to back up your rubbish
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sussexram40[/bold] wrote: Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.[/p][/quote]Right... so long as you don't include Barcelona, who did rather well with a DoF, a man now at Man City.[/p][/quote]The exception always proves the rule, dear boy. Please provide other examples to back up your rubbish ringtone
  • Score: -1

8:48pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

"The exception always proves the rule" - the nonsense of the stupid, dear boy. An exception disproves a rule.
"The exception always proves the rule" - the nonsense of the stupid, dear boy. An exception disproves a rule. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 6

9:21pm Fri 7 Mar 14

brighton bluenose says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG!
It is experience that will make him better, not necessarily English experience.

For instance, if he'd been over here last season he'd have known that Burnley were a dodgy outfit and would probably be lower mid-table this season, but Watford were a class act and would be favourites for automatic promotion. It hasn't quite worked out like that.

He will have colleagues scouting each and every one of his upcoming opponents who will give him reports on dangermen, likely tactics and their variations, weaknesses, etc. Having watched them last season will be of no benefit to him at all.

What I'm saying is, teams and managers and players change so much from one season to the next that anything you've learned 12 months ago can be tossed away during the close season as an irrelevance.
Whilst I appreciate what you are saying we will have to agree to disagree on this one! Enjoy tomorrows game - wherever you are!
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Mate I am not sure if you are misunderstanding me - I am right behind OG and believe our PL ambitions remain mid-term so would be happy with promotion in a couple of seasons! My point is the FACT that at his arrival OG did not know this league ie the clubs, the managers, the way they work, their tactics, the other teams players, their individual weaknesses etc etc etc and considering he was thrown in at the deep end to a certain degree he still has a lot to learn on all of this. This will all come to him with this season under his belt and in subsequent seasons too but lets not pretend that OG with four seasons experience in English football would not be a better coach than a newly arrived OG![/p][/quote]It is experience that will make him better, not necessarily English experience. For instance, if he'd been over here last season he'd have known that Burnley were a dodgy outfit and would probably be lower mid-table this season, but Watford were a class act and would be favourites for automatic promotion. It hasn't quite worked out like that. He will have colleagues scouting each and every one of his upcoming opponents who will give him reports on dangermen, likely tactics and their variations, weaknesses, etc. Having watched them last season will be of no benefit to him at all. What I'm saying is, teams and managers and players change so much from one season to the next that anything you've learned 12 months ago can be tossed away during the close season as an irrelevance.[/p][/quote]Whilst I appreciate what you are saying we will have to agree to disagree on this one! Enjoy tomorrows game - wherever you are! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 4

9:51pm Fri 7 Mar 14

OldGull says...

ringtone wrote:
sussexram40 wrote:
Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.
Spot on Sussexram. This ends the argument
Of course it does.
One bullsh1tter to another
[quote][p][bold]ringtone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sussexram40[/bold] wrote: Clubs with directors of football arent successful. You need a manager who can pick his own players.When the OG experiment fails we will go back to a proper manager.[/p][/quote]Spot on Sussexram. This ends the argument[/p][/quote]Of course it does. One bullsh1tter to another OldGull
  • Score: 3

10:05pm Fri 7 Mar 14

blue-eyed-boy says...

Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham. blue-eyed-boy
  • Score: 6

10:12pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
[quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Fri 7 Mar 14

blue-eyed-boy says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.[/p][/quote]You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence. blue-eyed-boy
  • Score: 6

10:53pm Fri 7 Mar 14

WoodingdeanDS says...

This is beginning to sound like the Paul Barber show. But the winning formula is the double act. My favourite is Alan Mullery and Mike Bamber. Match that and we're winning again.
This is beginning to sound like the Paul Barber show. But the winning formula is the double act. My favourite is Alan Mullery and Mike Bamber. Match that and we're winning again. WoodingdeanDS
  • Score: 1

11:23pm Fri 7 Mar 14

tug509 says...

blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
Excellently put ,a faultless argument for a Manager as apposed to a Coach and DOF .
Personally i think the more modern game does require a certain amount of delegation ,to give the "Coach" more time to concentrate on the players and tactics ,but imho the Coach/Manager MUST be the guy who tells the DOF who he wants ,not the other way round ,funds allowing of course .
In an ideal situation ,i would prefer to see Oscar give Mr Barber a list of his own choosing ,and Mr Barber then try and get his target/s ,this is the way Darren Ferguson and Barry Fry make this type of partnership work .
But as i have said in a previous post ,Mr Fry pointed out that "99 out of 100 Managers do not want a DOF" UTA
[quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]Excellently put ,a faultless argument for a Manager as apposed to a Coach and DOF . Personally i think the more modern game does require a certain amount of delegation ,to give the "Coach" more time to concentrate on the players and tactics ,but imho the Coach/Manager MUST be the guy who tells the DOF who he wants ,not the other way round ,funds allowing of course . In an ideal situation ,i would prefer to see Oscar give Mr Barber a list of his own choosing ,and Mr Barber then try and get his target/s ,this is the way Darren Ferguson and Barry Fry make this type of partnership work . But as i have said in a previous post ,Mr Fry pointed out that "99 out of 100 Managers do not want a DOF" UTA tug509
  • Score: 2

11:35pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Tug, managers don't want a DoF maybe, but coaches do. We have a coach.
Tug, managers don't want a DoF maybe, but coaches do. We have a coach. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 0

11:37pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.
What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.
[quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.[/p][/quote]You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.[/p][/quote]What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 0

11:57pm Fri 7 Mar 14

cheese rolls ! says...

raymondo999 wrote:
How can anyone possibly suggest the 'Arry is destabilising? He's as honest as the day is long. Has a lovely house on sandbanks and a lovely boy who charms us on television. OK introduce a new management system if you must but leave Mr redknapp out of it.
Harry , honest ? can I have some of what your on please ?
[quote][p][bold]raymondo999[/bold] wrote: How can anyone possibly suggest the 'Arry is destabilising? He's as honest as the day is long. Has a lovely house on sandbanks and a lovely boy who charms us on television. OK introduce a new management system if you must but leave Mr redknapp out of it.[/p][/quote]Harry , honest ? can I have some of what your on please ? cheese rolls !
  • Score: 4

12:01am Sat 8 Mar 14

OldGull says...

Maybe we should listen to the dinosaurs
Maybe we should revert back to a manager
Maybe we should go and play in a decrepid stadium
Maybe we should go back to division 3 football (where we spent most of our history)
OR
Maybe we trust in TB who has given us a fantastic stadium, Is building a state of the art training centre, who has taken us to the upper reaches of the Championship, Whilst trying to balance the books, whose vision is Sustainable premiership football.
Sorry No Brainer.... UTA
Maybe we should listen to the dinosaurs Maybe we should revert back to a manager Maybe we should go and play in a decrepid stadium Maybe we should go back to division 3 football (where we spent most of our history) OR Maybe we trust in TB who has given us a fantastic stadium, Is building a state of the art training centre, who has taken us to the upper reaches of the Championship, Whilst trying to balance the books, whose vision is Sustainable premiership football. Sorry No Brainer.... UTA OldGull
  • Score: 8

12:59am Sat 8 Mar 14

gordongull says...

I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.
However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club.
We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority.
A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant?
Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar.
But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge.
And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''?
Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget.
I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts.
Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?''
Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.
I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club. We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority. A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant? Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar. But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge. And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''? Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget. I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts. Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?'' Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer. gordongull
  • Score: 2

2:02am Sat 8 Mar 14

blue-eyed-boy says...

OldGull wrote:
Maybe we should listen to the dinosaurs
Maybe we should revert back to a manager
Maybe we should go and play in a decrepid stadium
Maybe we should go back to division 3 football (where we spent most of our history)
OR
Maybe we trust in TB who has given us a fantastic stadium, Is building a state of the art training centre, who has taken us to the upper reaches of the Championship, Whilst trying to balance the books, whose vision is Sustainable premiership football.
Sorry No Brainer.... UTA
Trouble is your taking to my head, & I'm talking from my heart, which proberly means your right
[quote][p][bold]OldGull[/bold] wrote: Maybe we should listen to the dinosaurs Maybe we should revert back to a manager Maybe we should go and play in a decrepid stadium Maybe we should go back to division 3 football (where we spent most of our history) OR Maybe we trust in TB who has given us a fantastic stadium, Is building a state of the art training centre, who has taken us to the upper reaches of the Championship, Whilst trying to balance the books, whose vision is Sustainable premiership football. Sorry No Brainer.... UTA[/p][/quote]Trouble is your taking to my head, & I'm talking from my heart, which proberly means your right blue-eyed-boy
  • Score: 3

2:10am Sat 8 Mar 14

blue-eyed-boy says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.
What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.
& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.[/p][/quote]You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.[/p][/quote]What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.[/p][/quote]& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams. blue-eyed-boy
  • Score: 4

8:06am Sat 8 Mar 14

Captain Haddock says...

gordongull wrote:
I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.
However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club.
We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority.
A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant?
Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar.
But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge.
And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''?
Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget.
I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts.
Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?''
Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.
The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.)
[quote][p][bold]gordongull[/bold] wrote: I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club. We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority. A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant? Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar. But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge. And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''? Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget. I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts. Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?'' Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.[/p][/quote]The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.) Captain Haddock
  • Score: 3

8:15am Sat 8 Mar 14

dave from bexill says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
OldGull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players????

I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?
There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation.

I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want.
What age exactly do you mean and what's a certain age and your evidence for suggesting this. Sorry Arnie, on this occasion you're speaking nonsense
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OldGull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players???? I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?[/p][/quote]There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation. I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want.[/p][/quote]What age exactly do you mean and what's a certain age and your evidence for suggesting this. Sorry Arnie, on this occasion you're speaking nonsense dave from bexill
  • Score: 1

8:21am Sat 8 Mar 14

Shaftesbury Seagull says...

You can get glimpses of the Albion's past if you watch lower league football on Sky Sports. Old Gull's decrepit stadia, kick and rush football, old style managers (often former players) who have not broken into a canter for some years past but who continue to wear inappropriate tracksuits and who spout ungrammatical gibberish when interviewed and all the rest if it. At the Amex you have hot and cold water in the loos! I can't get over that. At the Goldstone there was a corrugated iron lean to thing with a channel that took its contents vaguely in the direction of the sea. Got to move with the times, chaps!
You can get glimpses of the Albion's past if you watch lower league football on Sky Sports. Old Gull's decrepit stadia, kick and rush football, old style managers (often former players) who have not broken into a canter for some years past but who continue to wear inappropriate tracksuits and who spout ungrammatical gibberish when interviewed and all the rest if it. At the Amex you have hot and cold water in the loos! I can't get over that. At the Goldstone there was a corrugated iron lean to thing with a channel that took its contents vaguely in the direction of the sea. Got to move with the times, chaps! Shaftesbury Seagull
  • Score: 3

10:36am Sat 8 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

dave from bexill wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
OldGull wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?
Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players????

I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?
There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation.

I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want.
What age exactly do you mean and what's a certain age and your evidence for suggesting this. Sorry Arnie, on this occasion you're speaking nonsense
Sorry, I should have made myself clearer - it's not the same age for everyone, but at some point most people will (in general) get to a stage when they dislike change.

My evidence is based on many, many people I know. They for example will not want to change from A to B, but if they had already had B for years they wouldn't want to change to A. It's not the thing they dislike, it's the lack of familiarity.
[quote][p][bold]dave from bexill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OldGull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: Bluenose - what exactly does OG not know about this league? People keep on saying they want a (British, usually) manager who "knows the league" but what is there to know?[/p][/quote]Apparently, because he is Spanish he would not understand videos of English players???? I wonder, do these people think that a Manager spends all his days scouting away looking at players?[/p][/quote]There tends to be the idea that 'managers' are British and bring with them the comfortable 4-4-2, yet 'head-coaches' are foreigners that want to ruin our traditional game by having far more fluidity and squad rotation. I'm finding more and more (talking outside of football now) that when people get to a certain age they will resist change of any kind. They need the comfort blanket of similarity. 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they know and 4-4-2 with a British manager is what they want.[/p][/quote]What age exactly do you mean and what's a certain age and your evidence for suggesting this. Sorry Arnie, on this occasion you're speaking nonsense[/p][/quote]Sorry, I should have made myself clearer - it's not the same age for everyone, but at some point most people will (in general) get to a stage when they dislike change. My evidence is based on many, many people I know. They for example will not want to change from A to B, but if they had already had B for years they wouldn't want to change to A. It's not the thing they dislike, it's the lack of familiarity. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 1

10:39am Sat 8 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.
What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.
& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams.
I can't spell the guy's name and don't have it to hand.

I agree that joe Kinnear was an awful DoF, but then he was a shocking manager anyway.

All this is kinda missing the point as so many old-skool 'managers' are not actually directly involved in the day to day training of the players, They are, in effect, Directors of Football with one important difference - they pick the team. So even what you and me would think of as 'managers' off-load a huge amount of work to the first team coach. It's all a variation on a theme.
[quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.[/p][/quote]You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.[/p][/quote]What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.[/p][/quote]& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams.[/p][/quote]I can't spell the guy's name and don't have it to hand. I agree that joe Kinnear was an awful DoF, but then he was a shocking manager anyway. All this is kinda missing the point as so many old-skool 'managers' are not actually directly involved in the day to day training of the players, They are, in effect, Directors of Football with one important difference - they pick the team. So even what you and me would think of as 'managers' off-load a huge amount of work to the first team coach. It's all a variation on a theme. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 1

10:41am Sat 8 Mar 14

Ex-pat Arnie says...

Captain Haddock wrote:
gordongull wrote:
I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.
However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club.
We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority.
A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant?
Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar.
But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge.
And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''?
Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget.
I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts.
Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?''
Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.
The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.)
Spot on haddock. Burke was also a decent non-league player, so have a proper understanding of what it's like being a player. To call him a suit is unfair.
[quote][p][bold]Captain Haddock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gordongull[/bold] wrote: I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club. We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority. A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant? Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar. But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge. And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''? Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget. I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts. Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?'' Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.[/p][/quote]The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.)[/p][/quote]Spot on haddock. Burke was also a decent non-league player, so have a proper understanding of what it's like being a player. To call him a suit is unfair. Ex-pat Arnie
  • Score: 1

11:30am Sat 8 Mar 14

gordongull says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
Captain Haddock wrote:
gordongull wrote:
I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.
However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club.
We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority.
A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant?
Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar.
But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge.
And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''?
Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget.
I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts.
Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?''
Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.
The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.)
Spot on haddock. Burke was also a decent non-league player, so have a proper understanding of what it's like being a player. To call him a suit is unfair.
A camel is a horse designed by a committee.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Captain Haddock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gordongull[/bold] wrote: I'm not anti-Oscar, and I believe he is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. However, I don't agree that there are any benefits to running a team by committee. Also I am not convinced that the type of character who will accept the job on that basis is likely to bring success to a club. We're in Steve Kean territory where the person directly responsible for the team has no actual authority. A Manager would not tolerate any interfernce, but a coach has to tow the line. Is a player going to run through brick walls when he was bought by the accountant? Mr Barber talks about the huge amount of work that goes into managing the first team, and says it would be an impossible task for Oscar. But managers don't physically do everything themselves, they delegate work, and everyone knows who is in charge. And why are we ''less susceptible to the type of expensive and destabilising disruption which accompanies an 'old school' manager''? Surely an owner will veto any purchases which exceed an agreed budget. I'm sure the 'suits' are doing a fine job with the finances, but they are out of their depth where the team is concerned. They should leave it to the experts. Someone higher up this column asked ''What is there to know about this league?'' Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, and Steve McClaren have the answer.[/p][/quote]The thing is while Paul Barber is to every intent and purpose 'a suit', it is far from true to say David Burke is wholly that. He, as any decent DoF should be, is a 'halfway house' man, who has a hold on both aspects of the business (the bigger picture) but has a foot firmly in the football camp. Burke really knows his football stuff and has a great track record with Southampton and others in performing his role. He isn't an accountant by any stretch though his grasp of the finances is ample. (Did you know he is a BHA-supporting local lad btw?...or so he told us at a Seagulls Over London meeting.)[/p][/quote]Spot on haddock. Burke was also a decent non-league player, so have a proper understanding of what it's like being a player. To call him a suit is unfair.[/p][/quote]A camel is a horse designed by a committee. gordongull
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Sat 8 Mar 14

VegasSeagull says...

Ok so Brighton does not have a manager, we have a Head Coach and a Director of Football, fact.
We have had our worst year for injuries, fact.
We have seen the emergence of a couple of quality young players, fact.
We still have a chance at reaching the playoffs, even with all the injuries fact.

So given the above facts, what's so wrong having a Head Coach and a Director of Football? If the answer is that we entered into a couple of dodgy loan deals, I would refer you to the signing of Dobbie and Harley, both a waste of money and both signed by a, 'manager.'
Ok so Brighton does not have a manager, we have a Head Coach and a Director of Football, fact. We have had our worst year for injuries, fact. We have seen the emergence of a couple of quality young players, fact. We still have a chance at reaching the playoffs, even with all the injuries fact. So given the above facts, what's so wrong having a Head Coach and a Director of Football? If the answer is that we entered into a couple of dodgy loan deals, I would refer you to the signing of Dobbie and Harley, both a waste of money and both signed by a, 'manager.' VegasSeagull
  • Score: 0

9:36am Sun 9 Mar 14

Captain Haddock says...

Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Ex-pat Arnie wrote:
blue-eyed-boy wrote:
Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?"
If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced.
Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.
And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now.

And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.
You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.
What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.
& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams.
I can't spell the guy's name and don't have it to hand.

I agree that joe Kinnear was an awful DoF, but then he was a shocking manager anyway.

All this is kinda missing the point as so many old-skool 'managers' are not actually directly involved in the day to day training of the players, They are, in effect, Directors of Football with one important difference - they pick the team. So even what you and me would think of as 'managers' off-load a huge amount of work to the first team coach. It's all a variation on a theme.
I agree with that. Managers tend to have bigger coaching teams eg Dirty Arry.
[quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ex-pat Arnie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blue-eyed-boy[/bold] wrote: Shanks, Paisley, Sir Matt, Sir Alf, Sir Alex, Jock Stein, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, George Graham, Bobby Robson etc. all without the help of a DoF would all ask the same question "Since when has the Chief Scout been in charge?" If you could provide me with a similar list of DoF's with similar achievements I might be convinced. Here is a list who have not convinced me, Damien Comolli Spurs/Liverpool, David Pleat Spurs, Denis Wise Newcastle, Sven-Göran Eriksson Notts County, Joe Kinnear Newcastle, Alan Curbishley Fulham.[/p][/quote]And all except one of your list of 'managers' are from the distant past. They'd be dinosaurs in the modern game, clinging to the old ways. The game has moved on, and so has the way it is run. We all have to move along with it. These men didn't have to work with the enormous budgets or squads that they would be expected to do now. And the chief scout is not in charge, assuming you mean Mervyn Day, the actual Chief Scout? OG and Burke are a team. Like it, lump it, the choice is yours.[/p][/quote]You haven't come up with a single name of a so called modern DoF with any track record to convince me, I might have named Dinosaurs, but Brendan Rogers only took the Liverpool job because he insisted on not working under a DoF, I am prepared to be converted, just need some evidence.[/p][/quote]What about the guy who is DoF at Man City? He's doing okay... and guess where he was previously DoF? Yep, Barcelona.[/p][/quote]& his names is? I listed a load who turned up for easy money, that's why it would be good to see a list of those that achieved something. Management is about personality & good managers express theirs through their teams.[/p][/quote]I can't spell the guy's name and don't have it to hand. I agree that joe Kinnear was an awful DoF, but then he was a shocking manager anyway. All this is kinda missing the point as so many old-skool 'managers' are not actually directly involved in the day to day training of the players, They are, in effect, Directors of Football with one important difference - they pick the team. So even what you and me would think of as 'managers' off-load a huge amount of work to the first team coach. It's all a variation on a theme.[/p][/quote]I agree with that. Managers tend to have bigger coaching teams eg Dirty Arry. Captain Haddock
  • Score: 1

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