Vicente faces a battle to get back in (From The Argus)

Vicente is a class act and without doubt, when fit, a starting 11 player. Having said that we have played well thus far and obviously you dont change a winning team. The bench for the next match should be interesting with Lua Lua, Buckley and Vicente now available, add to this Toby and it would appear that we have some strength in depth in the attacking department. UTA

I think it's best not to tinker with a winning team, but not playing Vicente if he is fit is unthinkable to me.
If Buckley, Vicente and Lua Lua are all sitting on the bench it would be criminal.
The stat that shows we do less well with Vicente in the side should not be ignored but like the goal scoring record of CMS, seen as evidence that we need to find the way to get the best from him.

I'd love to see the stats on results whilst Vicente has started matches. Although he is a class act I have a feeling tha even last season we achieved most of our points without him in the team. Hmmmmmmnnn ?

Got to satrt on the bench along with Will Buckley, and brought on when, and if, required to replace tired legs or change of tactics.
We owe Burnley one after last season.

To be fair, we did no better against those eight teams the previous time we played them, without Vicente.
He seemed to provide a greater impact from the bench last season and surely we we would get more mileage from him if limited to substitute appearances.
Despite all he brings to the side, I agree that it would be difficult to change a winning team.

Gus will likely start at Burnley with the same team as they played well and won, but let's not kid ourselves, in the long term Vicente will come in for Gary Dicker.

The international break should allow sufficient time for Gus to adjust the team to field the strongest line-up, which clearly includes Vicente and perhaps even a new striker too.

Undoubted class my worry is the injurys keep on comming. We could have Messi in the team but if he's off sick 95% of the time its pointless having him. Impact sub maybe

The last six games of last season were all against good sides fighting for a play off or automatic promotion.If those games and there results had been spread over the season it would`nt have stuck out so prominently,or looked so bad.I agree you never change a winning team,as Gee Jay said,only to replace tired legs or tactics.But i cant help thinking that there is an element of warning here to Vicente,that with these convenient "Niggles" he is preferable,but not irreplaceable! UTA

Vicente having trouble getting back!!! Don't think so, not when you have the likes of Dicker and Harley in the squad. Even I would get in the squad ahead of them, and I'm overweight!!!

Vicente having trouble getting back!!! Don't think so, not when you have the likes of Dicker and Harley in the squad. Even I would get in the squad ahead of them, and I'm overweight!!!

gordongull wrote:
To be fair, we did no better against those eight teams the previous time we played them, without Vicente.
He seemed to provide a greater impact from the bench last season and surely we we would get more mileage from him if limited to substitute appearances.
Despite all he brings to the side, I agree that it would be difficult to change a winning team.

Completely agree, we did no better without him.

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Harley is really that bad. Compared to Dicker, I think he is better at picking a pass and has more forward intent, which would certainly help CMS. He also created a great chance for himself at the end, which you would never see from Dicker.

And to be totally controversial (and I never thought I would ever say this, but) Barnes was IMMENSE on Saturday. Can't beleive I ever doubted him.

Vicente and Buckley in for Harley and Barker. A simple decision for me, maybe then swap Vicente with Dicker.

Vicente and Buckley in for Harley and Barker. A simple decision for me, maybe then swap Vicente with Dicker.

Oh, this is just Gus's provocative nonsense. Of course you can change a winning team. They didn't do that well in the first two games and even on Saturday I think the shot stats showed 6 on target so it wasn't that much different to normal. A fit (or even semi-fit) Vicente (or Buckley, or Lua Lua) would improve the team.. fact. The stat linking Vicente to under performance of the team is just one of those flukes - he was responsible for most the assists last season. One of the best performances I saw last season was against Derby where Vicente and Lua-Lua were on fire. What happened the next game? Lua-Lua was dropped.

Eddy B wrote:
Oh, this is just Gus's provocative nonsense. Of course you can change a winning team. They didn't do that well in the first two games and even on Saturday I think the shot stats showed 6 on target so it wasn't that much different to normal. A fit (or even semi-fit) Vicente (or Buckley, or Lua Lua) would improve the team.. fact. The stat linking Vicente to under performance of the team is just one of those flukes - he was responsible for most the assists last season. One of the best performances I saw last season was against Derby where Vicente and Lua-Lua were on fire. What happened the next game? Lua-Lua was dropped.

Maybe he was dropped because he was burnt out

I don't think we can say KLL was dropped, he was carrying an injury last season and we had to use hime carefully.

Perm.'Tache.Legend wrote:
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think Harley is really that bad. Compared to Dicker, I think he is better at picking a pass and has more forward intent, which would certainly help CMS. He also created a great chance for himself at the end, which you would never see from Dicker. And to be totally controversial (and I never thought I would ever say this, but) Barnes was IMMENSE on Saturday. Can't beleive I ever doubted him.

I'm in the same minority. To be far to Harley he was injured for the majority of last season with some bone disease or something. He just needs more playing time.

I do think that people have a habbit of picking on players without a good reason. He did score that wonder free kick last season!

I like the look of Vicente as an impact player. Especially given his propensity for injury, I think GP will want Dicker et al to wear down the opposition, so that Vicente/LL can make a big impact off the bench. It is really a 15 man side these days.

Gus has stated the obvious, it is hard to change a winning team, but we don't have one yet.
My idea of a, 'winning team,' is one that strings together a few wins, one win is not a string and as great as it was to score five, look at what we were up against.

I wouldn't start Vicente this week, in fact I wouldn't even have him on the bench. I say this not because I don't think he would make the line up better, I would think it a good idea to give him a further two weeks to recover and two weeks of extra training to make sure he has recovered.

If we sign a new striker, possibly a new center back and maybe a work horse in midfield, are we saying that we won't change a winning team, of course we will.

Every team needs quality on the bench and every winning team rotates it's players. Once a player, 'knows,' that he will start he has no reason to fight for his place, and that is not how Gus wants his players to think.

Vicente is quality and if used in a way that allows him to do his thing whilst also remembering that he is a tad frail, he maybe doesn't have to play 90 minutes every week, he will scare the pants off our opponents. ,

No news as yet on any new signings, and no news regarding players leaving, the latter needs to be addressed with equal vigor.

There are two, and possibly as many as four, players that have been told that their journey with Brighton has come to an end, it's time they got off the bus.

Gus, quite correctly, has said that contratcs will be honored but are we to assume that they are so poor at what they do nodody wants them, not even in the lower division.
I can understand one or more of them not wanting to drop down a level but will their pride allow them to just sit at home and pick up a paycheck each month.

It makes no difference the reasons why they are no longer needed, or if we the fans agree with the decision, the fact is they have been told and that's that.

If Gus did change a winning team and we lost, that would be moaned at, if he sticks with a winning team and we don`t get 3 points that will be wrong.But if we do change it does that mean Vicente will be pushed forward and CMS to the wing as with the Cardiff game.The shape against Barnsley was good,and only 6 shots on target and 5 go in,i`ll take that every week.Its a shame that some people think,that it was just a poor Barnsley team.Im sure the players reading that are wondering what they have to do to make some people happy.Every team has a squad of players and sometimes you have to make do,as we have many times in the past,im sure the other side was`nt bothered who we had missing.Sorry Vegas Seagull,but we are a winning team,if you string a few wins together you are on a run,but descriptively your as good as your last game,and we won,hence a winning team.UTA

Tug509.
I get your point I am just not sure that you get mine, but maybe I didn't explain it too well.

As I said, great to score five goals but had we not won that particular game, against that much depleted team due to loads of injuries with an impressive performance, I would have been more worried than I was with the draw against Cardiff.

Regarding changing the line up, right now we are all waiting to see if Gus can bring in some extra quality, do you think, should he find the players, that he will not play them untill we lose a match?
If a quality player was found that was a step ahead of Harley, who I like, or Bridcutt, who I also like, do you think that Gus would wait for a loss. I guess the question is, was the opposition last week of a standard to say, well we have our first eleven.

The two prior games were the same team for us but the opposition was better than Barnsley and we didn't score so everyone calls for a new striker. This week the opposition will be better again so Gus has to look at his options. We did most things right in the first two league games but didn't score, banging in five against Barnsley doesn't mean that we have solved our problem as I htink I am right in saying that Barnsley had ten of their squad out injured.

I am not saying that we didn't do well, we did, but to say that Vicente would struggle to replace Harley, remeber I like him, is just not right no matter how many we win. Now can he last 90 minutes every week is another question but just on skill and ability there is no question.
,

THREE days to go to get our new men??
Strange--this time last year the Argus headline was 'Albion still need a New Striker'!!

3 days till the buying window shuts loan windows longer though isnt it?

Forest have just signed Lansbury from Arsenal; I missed Vaughan joining Huddersfield on a season-long loan from Norwich. Our rivals just keep getting stronger. Very hard to keep up with the Joneses in the Championship right now.

VegasSeagull wrote:
Tug509.
I get your point I am just not sure that you get mine, but maybe I didn't explain it too well.

As I said, great to score five goals but had we not won that particular game, against that much depleted team due to loads of injuries with an impressive performance, I would have been more worried than I was with the draw against Cardiff.

Regarding changing the line up, right now we are all waiting to see if Gus can bring in some extra quality, do you think, should he find the players, that he will not play them untill we lose a match?
If a quality player was found that was a step ahead of Harley, who I like, or Bridcutt, who I also like, do you think that Gus would wait for a loss. I guess the question is, was the opposition last week of a standard to say, well we have our first eleven.

The two prior games were the same team for us but the opposition was better than Barnsley and we didn't score so everyone calls for a new striker. This week the opposition will be better again so Gus has to look at his options. We did most things right in the first two league games but didn't score, banging in five against Barnsley doesn't mean that we have solved our problem as I htink I am right in saying that Barnsley had ten of their squad out injured.

I am not saying that we didn't do well, we did, but to say that Vicente would struggle to replace Harley, remeber I like him, is just not right no matter how many we win. Now can he last 90 minutes every week is another question but just on skill and ability there is no question.
,

Yes i do get your point,and we did win that particular game against a side with injuries,as all teams suffer.(or are you suggesting a sympathy vote for all the teams the Albion beat)As it happens are you aware that 11 of the side that opened the season with a 1-0 home win against Middlesborough were in the Barnsley squad at Brighton,does`nt sound such a bad team now does it?Any Brighton fan will tell you that when Gus finds new players he will not upset the balance of the side to introduce them immediately.No im not suggesting he will wait for a loss to play them,merely he will not rush the team or the individual.You say the two previous games were against better sides,and i agree ,but we had 34 strikes in those two games,and the players themselves were quoted as saying it was only a matter of time.And the time was not so poor Barnsley.The game at Burnley (after last season) is a biggy and to quote yourself yes i do believe "Banging in 5 against Barnsley" has solved the problem you mentioned,we could`nt score,ssssss ssss

Whether or not to select the best player in the league for every match, looks like a no-brainer, but there are of course special considerations where Vicente is concerned.
The medics have worked wonders on him since early this year, but his fitness is still suspect, to the extent that you couldn't risk 'building the team around him'.
I would like to see him employed as an impact sub' for the last half hour, to tear tiring defences apart like he did against Portsmouth.
His medical history at Valencia, followed by his first season with us, is evidence enough that It's a question of managing Vicente's physical condition for a whole season, not pushing him to the limit for 90 minutes of each game.
Viva Vicente!!!!

Regarding our competion signing new players it might be, and I think it is, a case of, they have greater needs than we do.
We finished last season with a strong squad and we have added to it since. Brighton are only looking for maybe three players, possibly four but only one of them is paramount (str), one is needed but we could cope (midf) and other is desired but not critical (cdef). The last would be an extra striker as further cover.

If you look at who has been signed and by which club, in my opinion none of those clubs finished last season with a squad as strong as ours hence they needed to catch up.
If we sign just three quality players we will have opened the gap again, and Gus is always focused on quality not quantity.

bruce beckett wrote:
Forest have just signed Lansbury from Arsenal; I missed Vaughan joining Huddersfield on a season-long loan from Norwich. Our rivals just keep getting stronger. Very hard to keep up with the Joneses in the Championship right now.

Yes he apperently cost £1M so I think if we got £1.5 for Hall we have done really well.

tug509 wrote:

VegasSeagull wrote:
Tug509.
I get your point I am just not sure that you get mine, but maybe I didn't explain it too well.

As I said, great to score five goals but had we not won that particular game, against that much depleted team due to loads of injuries with an impressive performance, I would have been more worried than I was with the draw against Cardiff.

Regarding changing the line up, right now we are all waiting to see if Gus can bring in some extra quality, do you think, should he find the players, that he will not play them untill we lose a match?
If a quality player was found that was a step ahead of Harley, who I like, or Bridcutt, who I also like, do you think that Gus would wait for a loss. I guess the question is, was the opposition last week of a standard to say, well we have our first eleven.

The two prior games were the same team for us but the opposition was better than Barnsley and we didn't score so everyone calls for a new striker. This week the opposition will be better again so Gus has to look at his options. We did most things right in the first two league games but didn't score, banging in five against Barnsley doesn't mean that we have solved our problem as I htink I am right in saying that Barnsley had ten of their squad out injured.

I am not saying that we didn't do well, we did, but to say that Vicente would struggle to replace Harley, remeber I like him, is just not right no matter how many we win. Now can he last 90 minutes every week is another question but just on skill and ability there is no question.
,

Yes i do get your point,and we did win that particular game against a side with injuries,as all teams suffer.(or are you suggesting a sympathy vote for all the teams the Albion beat)As it happens are you aware that 11 of the side that opened the season with a 1-0 home win against Middlesborough were in the Barnsley squad at Brighton,does`nt sound such a bad team now does it?Any Brighton fan will tell you that when Gus finds new players he will not upset the balance of the side to introduce them immediately.No im not suggesting he will wait for a loss to play them,merely he will not rush the team or the individual.You say the two previous games were against better sides,and i agree ,but we had 34 strikes in those two games,and the players themselves were quoted as saying it was only a matter of time.And the time was not so poor Barnsley.The game at Burnley (after last season) is a biggy and to quote yourself yes i do believe "Banging in 5 against Barnsley" has solved the problem you mentioned,we could`nt score,ssssss ssss

Sorry Vegas Seagull this is the 3rd attempt to finish my post,bloody argus site!....Iwas just going to add that i think the 5 goals on saturday will start a descent run,all the best.UTA

Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

cullipmyhero wrote:
Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

Good to hear so much positivity,one of the framed shirts on my wall is the light blue stripe with the seagull emblem,not the badge,i had cullip printed on.UTA

cullipmyhero wrote:
Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

Hoping CMS and Barnes don't get injured and score 20 between them is wishful thinking, BRnes for all his attributes is not going to scare quality defenders,
I do think the two fullbacks are now the best we have ever had, I would love to see them as wingbacks, which now does not mean playing three centre backs, but rotating one defensive midfielder into the space left by the defender...
Midfield is strong if we don't lose bridcutt or crofts,
Wingers we have in various types,
Goal scores are thin on the ground.

mark by the sea wrote:

cullipmyhero wrote: Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

Hoping CMS and Barnes don't get injured and score 20 between them is wishful thinking, BRnes for all his attributes is not going to scare quality defenders, I do think the two fullbacks are now the best we have ever had, I would love to see them as wingbacks, which now does not mean playing three centre backs, but rotating one defensive midfielder into the space left by the defender... Midfield is strong if we don't lose bridcutt or crofts, Wingers we have in various types, Goal scores are thin on the ground.

And if Utd lost Rooney, Van Persie, and a couple of wingers they too would be a tad lightweight too!
If, but,maybe,...None of which are positive thinking!
I for one think if we didnt sign anybody by friday it wouldnt be the end of days...

mark by the sea wrote:

cullipmyhero wrote:
Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

Hoping CMS and Barnes don't get injured and score 20 between them is wishful thinking, BRnes for all his attributes is not going to scare quality defenders,
I do think the two fullbacks are now the best we have ever had, I would love to see them as wingbacks, which now does not mean playing three centre backs, but rotating one defensive midfielder into the space left by the defender...
Midfield is strong if we don't lose bridcutt or crofts,
Wingers we have in various types,
Goal scores are thin on the ground.

Brain cells maybe,CMS and Barnsey will score inxs of 25 easily,and that is conservative.UTA

tug509 wrote:

mark by the sea wrote:

cullipmyhero wrote:
Just a thought guys, but 'if' CMS and Barnesy hit 20+ in next 10-15 games between them, will we still be groaning about lack of strikers? Maybe have faith as goals inevitably come from midfield too with Buckers, Vicente and Croft, NOT TO MENTION too the rockets we've seen from our FB's Bruno and Bridge hit already on occasion, if a couple of them find the net which i'm sure will happen this season, we have more goals in the team than most of you think!?!

Hoping CMS and Barnes don't get injured and score 20 between them is wishful thinking, BRnes for all his attributes is not going to scare quality defenders,
I do think the two fullbacks are now the best we have ever had, I would love to see them as wingbacks, which now does not mean playing three centre backs, but rotating one defensive midfielder into the space left by the defender...
Midfield is strong if we don't lose bridcutt or crofts,
Wingers we have in various types,
Goal scores are thin on the ground.

Brain cells maybe,CMS and Barnsey will score inxs of 25 easily,and that is conservative.UTA

In the next 15_ # games? I don't think so, clubs have squads because of injury, and bans, Cms is our only hope .. If injured who would you play?

CMS and Barnes scored 20 between them in the league last time, so taking into account the vast increase in chances being created this season, 40 should be a realistic target.
I'm not convinced by all this so-called strengthening by our rivals. Lansbury and Vaughan were in the championship last season on loan, Palace's signings are from other Championship clubs, + a free transfer from Turkey. It's all just a shuffling of the pack, with a few foreign additions, and a sprinkling of players not required by Prem' clubs.
Bellamy and Bridgey are the two signings most likely to scare opposing sides this season.
Most of the other new faces will have a familiar look about them.

You are right mark by the sea,i did read it ,but it did`nt register 10-15 games.For some reason i saw it as for the season,and thought ,no brainer.But i worship the Albion and see my mistake as a challenge,25 goals in 10-15 games,tough but so do we need to be.We will both be very happy bunnies if that comes off.COYS

Well my friends it is past 9.30pm for you, past 1.30pm for me and it is nearing your bedtime.
I think between us we have sucessfully wasted another day, lets hope that the power brokers within the club haven't.

The clock is ticking down and another day passes without any news, oh well maybe tomorrow.

Now whilst your milk is warming on the cooker give a thought as to what crap we will type come wednesday.

Sleep well.
.. ,

Well one thing is for sure we will have to get up early to beat you.ATB

VegasSeagull wrote:
Regarding our competion signing new players it might be, and I think it is, a case of, they have greater needs than we do.
We finished last season with a strong squad and we have added to it since. Brighton are only looking for maybe three players, possibly four but only one of them is paramount (str), one is needed but we could cope (midf) and other is desired but not critical (cdef). The last would be an extra striker as further cover.

If you look at who has been signed and by which club, in my opinion none of those clubs finished last season with a squad as strong as ours hence they needed to catch up.
If we sign just three quality players we will have opened the gap again, and Gus is always focused on quality not quantity.

Yes, I subscribe to this view. Very well put, Vegas.

I gather each of the requirements may yet be filled. Will be a very interesting few days indeed.

By the way, am I to assume you are the Vegas Seagull who has a brother and family who are back row of the North Stand and with whom I'm acquainted (if so i met you very briefly post-match vs Donny last year)?

Either way you've been a great addition to these boards! Good work!

I don't know why but I think that something good will happen for us tomorrow (wednesday,) and I think that we will hear further news come thursday.

If you think about it, any player that we might obtain that comes from abroad will have to be european, no time for work permit application for those outside europe. The guy would have to pass our medical, and I don't think that GP and TB would want to wait untill the last minute.
We are probably working on two deals, maybe three so one wedenesday and one or two on thursday seems about right.

If we are talking to prem clubs about borrowing I guess those deals could go through on friday morning but my guess is we are looking abroad as far as buying goes.

One part of my head says that we will not get another Vicente or Bridge but the other side of me says, who ever thought we would get those two so why not two more like them.

I suppose it is possible that we don't sign anyone. If the player or the deal is not right then maybe we will just forge ahead with what we have, and to be honest I could live with that. We do have a decent squad, in fact I would say that we have better than many, my only concern would be our strength in depth.