Petition calls on Government to refuse i360 loan

Petition calls on Government to refuse i360 loan

Petition calls on Government to refuse i360 loan

First published in News

A petition has been launched calling on the Government to refuse a multi-million pound loan to Brighton and Hove City Council for the i360.

Hove resident Valerie Paynter has set-up a petition calling on the UK Public Works Loan Board not to grant the £36.2 million loan requested by Brighton and Hove City Council to help build the i360.

The petition has already attracted more than 100 signatures.

 

Comments (33)

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7:09am Wed 12 Mar 14

We are the 99% says...

I can't believe in light if the austerity cuts that the ConDems are forcing people to breaking people, that the Conservatives have agreed with this
Why?
A poison chalice maybe for the next administration maybe???
I can't believe in light if the austerity cuts that the ConDems are forcing people to breaking people, that the Conservatives have agreed with this Why? A poison chalice maybe for the next administration maybe??? We are the 99%
  • Score: 7

7:43am Wed 12 Mar 14

Johnwilson23 says...

100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton
needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla
sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.
100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners. Johnwilson23
  • Score: -19

7:58am Wed 12 Mar 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 22

8:24am Wed 12 Mar 14

upsidedowntuctuc says...

Seems like the picture has the visitor numbers right pity the same can' be said for the ridiculous projections of numbers.
We will be picking up this bill for years to come without doubt running it into far more than putting a new pier there would cost with real long term benefits
Seems like the picture has the visitor numbers right pity the same can' be said for the ridiculous projections of numbers. We will be picking up this bill for years to come without doubt running it into far more than putting a new pier there would cost with real long term benefits upsidedowntuctuc
  • Score: 12

9:00am Wed 12 Mar 14

KempyLocals says...

Not surprised at public outcry did any Councillors of any party think to ask the people what they thought? Nope... Did the make the decision at full council? Nope - 9 Councillors mostly out of touch with reality and swayed by a Marks Barfield begging bowl harping on about a project he did 15 years ago - move on!!!!
Not surprised at public outcry did any Councillors of any party think to ask the people what they thought? Nope... Did the make the decision at full council? Nope - 9 Councillors mostly out of touch with reality and swayed by a Marks Barfield begging bowl harping on about a project he did 15 years ago - move on!!!! KempyLocals
  • Score: 15

9:47am Wed 12 Mar 14

Eugenius says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you.

For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.[/p][/quote]People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you. For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter. Eugenius
  • Score: -5

10:43am Wed 12 Mar 14

Richada says...

Johnwilson23 wrote:
100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton
needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla

sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.
And sticking the i360 up is going to make Brighton and Hove "modern" is it?

We do need forward thinking planners, but we also need to capitalize on what we already have, improve facilities for bus and coach travellers, clean up the city generally - there are just SO many better ways that this money could be spent to benefit all - residents and visitors alike.

The i360 may appear "modern" when first erected, following its first winter it will start to look stained and scruffy, after a few years it will become a very tall blot on the seafront landscape. Google other towers around the UK - there are plenty of them in seaside towns - they all have one thing in common, they look tired and sad - there's nothing modern about that!

Well done Valerie for putting together a petition, thanks too to the Argus for taking a balanced enough view on this particular subject to publish this article on it too.

The Speed Trials petition ended up with over 10,000 signatories - bearing in mind the potential long term costs involved to us all here, hopefully this one has the potential to raise similar support.
[quote][p][bold]Johnwilson23[/bold] wrote: 100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.[/p][/quote]And sticking the i360 up is going to make Brighton and Hove "modern" is it? We do need forward thinking planners, but we also need to capitalize on what we already have, improve facilities for bus and coach travellers, clean up the city generally - there are just SO many better ways that this money could be spent to benefit all - residents and visitors alike. The i360 may appear "modern" when first erected, following its first winter it will start to look stained and scruffy, after a few years it will become a very tall blot on the seafront landscape. Google other towers around the UK - there are plenty of them in seaside towns - they all have one thing in common, they look tired and sad - there's nothing modern about that! Well done Valerie for putting together a petition, thanks too to the Argus for taking a balanced enough view on this particular subject to publish this article on it too. The Speed Trials petition ended up with over 10,000 signatories - bearing in mind the potential long term costs involved to us all here, hopefully this one has the potential to raise similar support. Richada
  • Score: 8

10:47am Wed 12 Mar 14

cynic_the says...

Eugenius wrote:
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you.

For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.
I think I'd rather go on 'Bubble of Misery' than the alternative, 'Green Tinted Spectacles'.

It's generally better to be a pessimist than completely delusional.
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.[/p][/quote]People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you. For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.[/p][/quote]I think I'd rather go on 'Bubble of Misery' than the alternative, 'Green Tinted Spectacles'. It's generally better to be a pessimist than completely delusional. cynic_the
  • Score: 1

12:45pm Wed 12 Mar 14

saveHOVE says...

It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there.

Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360.

Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there.

Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.
It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there. Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360. Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there. Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too. saveHOVE
  • Score: 3

1:55pm Wed 12 Mar 14

jo_brown says...

Cannot wait for this to be built! Its going to regenerate what is rapidly turning into a rubbish dump. Lets move forward and get on with it! Brighton needs move on from the past.. get building and lets see some new projects coming through planning for the future. Too many people stand in the way of progress, look at the state of the King Alfred and the West Pier. An absolute disgrace!
Cannot wait for this to be built! Its going to regenerate what is rapidly turning into a rubbish dump. Lets move forward and get on with it! Brighton needs move on from the past.. get building and lets see some new projects coming through planning for the future. Too many people stand in the way of progress, look at the state of the King Alfred and the West Pier. An absolute disgrace! jo_brown
  • Score: -8

2:08pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Hovite says...

saveHOVE wrote:
It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there.

Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360.

Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there.

Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.
To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK.

Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet.

If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back.

I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it.

Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions.

One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it.
[quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there. Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360. Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there. Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.[/p][/quote]To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK. Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet. If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back. I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it. Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions. One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it. Hovite
  • Score: -3

2:27pm Wed 12 Mar 14

fredflintstone1 says...

Eugenius wrote:
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you.

For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.
Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl
e.

In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher.

I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed?
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.[/p][/quote]People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you. For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.[/p][/quote]Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl e. In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher. I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed? fredflintstone1
  • Score: 4

2:37pm Wed 12 Mar 14

LiberalsOut says...

jo_brown wrote:
Cannot wait for this to be built! Its going to regenerate what is rapidly turning into a rubbish dump. Lets move forward and get on with it! Brighton needs move on from the past.. get building and lets see some new projects coming through planning for the future. Too many people stand in the way of progress, look at the state of the King Alfred and the West Pier. An absolute disgrace!
I left Brighton when I was 18 almost 38 years ago
It was a dump then and has not got any better over time - I only visit to see my aged parents
I feel so sorry for the people there having a Green Council - where I live we have a Lib Dem Council and they are an absolute nightmare
[quote][p][bold]jo_brown[/bold] wrote: Cannot wait for this to be built! Its going to regenerate what is rapidly turning into a rubbish dump. Lets move forward and get on with it! Brighton needs move on from the past.. get building and lets see some new projects coming through planning for the future. Too many people stand in the way of progress, look at the state of the King Alfred and the West Pier. An absolute disgrace![/p][/quote]I left Brighton when I was 18 almost 38 years ago It was a dump then and has not got any better over time - I only visit to see my aged parents I feel so sorry for the people there having a Green Council - where I live we have a Lib Dem Council and they are an absolute nightmare LiberalsOut
  • Score: 4

2:48pm Wed 12 Mar 14

saveHOVE says...

Hovite wrote:
saveHOVE wrote:
It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there.

Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360.

Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there.

Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.
To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK.

Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet.

If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back.

I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it.

Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions.

One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it.
John Keenan, former Argus Business Editor asked the PWLB about the loan and was told that BHCC had not put in a loan request since 2012.

I respect your ambiguous view but the petition represents all the voice the residents are going to get and the PWLB should hear it.

We need to be using the PWLB cheap loans to lend on options for developments that investors clamour to back. as this indicates less risk is involved. Not for bailing out those that fail to attract investment.

How many loans can the city manage? What about the Brighton Centre regen need and the King Alfred opportunity? These are but two that would be more constructively backed. Less damaging in all likelihood too.
[quote][p][bold]Hovite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there. Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360. Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there. Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.[/p][/quote]To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK. Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet. If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back. I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it. Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions. One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it.[/p][/quote]John Keenan, former Argus Business Editor asked the PWLB about the loan and was told that BHCC had not put in a loan request since 2012. I respect your ambiguous view but the petition represents all the voice the residents are going to get and the PWLB should hear it. We need to be using the PWLB cheap loans to lend on options for developments that investors clamour to back. as this indicates less risk is involved. Not for bailing out those that fail to attract investment. How many loans can the city manage? What about the Brighton Centre regen need and the King Alfred opportunity? These are but two that would be more constructively backed. Less damaging in all likelihood too. saveHOVE
  • Score: 8

3:15pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Hovite says...

saveHOVE wrote:
Hovite wrote:
saveHOVE wrote:
It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there.

Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360.

Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there.

Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.
To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK.

Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet.

If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back.

I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it.

Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions.

One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it.
John Keenan, former Argus Business Editor asked the PWLB about the loan and was told that BHCC had not put in a loan request since 2012.

I respect your ambiguous view but the petition represents all the voice the residents are going to get and the PWLB should hear it.

We need to be using the PWLB cheap loans to lend on options for developments that investors clamour to back. as this indicates less risk is involved. Not for bailing out those that fail to attract investment.

How many loans can the city manage? What about the Brighton Centre regen need and the King Alfred opportunity? These are but two that would be more constructively backed. Less damaging in all likelihood too.
I haven’t got an ambiguous view, I made it clear what I thought. I agree that the council have got their priorities back to front and the King Alfred is a far more important issue for the residents of the city but there is not a cat in hells chance of them not going ahead with the i360 unless the PWLB refuse the loan.

The loan is a national tax payer issue now, not a local one and nationally is where your campaign should be taken and would have more impact. My advice to you is to branch outside the city to gain support otherwise it will just fall on deaf council ears.

If they don’t manage to pay it back in 25 years, the loan will probably be extended, and will not require an instant payback from the residents. It may even be written off by the PWLB and turned into an interest only payable by the i360 Company. At worst they will always be able to cover the interest and it is supposed to have a fifty year plus lifespan.
[quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hovite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: It is a saveHOVE petition, with a lot of saveHOVE supporters having signed it. How will people know it is there? Please tweet, email to everyone you know and ask them to tweet and email a link to the petition. That is how people will know it is there. Sadly it means those not online are out of this loop. There will be no paper petition from saveHOVE to go with it. There is another petition on the govt epetition site which went up first but it is quite vaguely worded and aimed at the Govt. The saveHOVE one is asking the Public Works Loan Board not to loan to lend to bankroll the i360. Please look at the link in the article, go there and sign and copy this article and link to everyone you know. Tell your neighbours. Get the word out there. Thank you Argus for this article (unsolicited I might add). Hope it goes into the print edition too.[/p][/quote]To be honest it is a futile attempt to publicise this locally because it is a matter for national interest on whether this vast sum of money should be spread out more evenly to other projects in the UK. Although we know that the council has agreed to go for the loan, I don't know if we have actually applied for the inflated £36m in full yet. If the UK Public Works Loan Board has fully agreed to it I don't think there will be any turning back. I don't fully support it, as I think this type of project should have been located at the end of a new pier not its shoreline, so it shows that the lack of complete imagination from the council that is is sadly hard wired into it. Also this project doesn't serve the local tax payer and their families, and its objectives are fully focused on seasonal tourists. The £1m earnt from the project each year will only go towards council consultation outsourcing, officers jobs with raises, bonuses and golden pensions. One thing I do know is that I wouldn't waste my time fighting it.[/p][/quote]John Keenan, former Argus Business Editor asked the PWLB about the loan and was told that BHCC had not put in a loan request since 2012. I respect your ambiguous view but the petition represents all the voice the residents are going to get and the PWLB should hear it. We need to be using the PWLB cheap loans to lend on options for developments that investors clamour to back. as this indicates less risk is involved. Not for bailing out those that fail to attract investment. How many loans can the city manage? What about the Brighton Centre regen need and the King Alfred opportunity? These are but two that would be more constructively backed. Less damaging in all likelihood too.[/p][/quote]I haven’t got an ambiguous view, I made it clear what I thought. I agree that the council have got their priorities back to front and the King Alfred is a far more important issue for the residents of the city but there is not a cat in hells chance of them not going ahead with the i360 unless the PWLB refuse the loan. The loan is a national tax payer issue now, not a local one and nationally is where your campaign should be taken and would have more impact. My advice to you is to branch outside the city to gain support otherwise it will just fall on deaf council ears. If they don’t manage to pay it back in 25 years, the loan will probably be extended, and will not require an instant payback from the residents. It may even be written off by the PWLB and turned into an interest only payable by the i360 Company. At worst they will always be able to cover the interest and it is supposed to have a fifty year plus lifespan. Hovite
  • Score: 1

3:46pm Wed 12 Mar 14

jo_brown says...

.....and meanwhile we will have a new tourist attraction, a regenerated part of this once-lively and beautiful, now neglected and shabby part of the seafront, lots of happy visitors to Brighton and booming businesses in this part of town! Fantastic!
.....and meanwhile we will have a new tourist attraction, a regenerated part of this once-lively and beautiful, now neglected and shabby part of the seafront, lots of happy visitors to Brighton and booming businesses in this part of town! Fantastic! jo_brown
  • Score: -5

5:18pm Wed 12 Mar 14

PorkyChopper says...

jo_brown wrote:
.....and meanwhile we will have a new tourist attraction, a regenerated part of this once-lively and beautiful, now neglected and shabby part of the seafront, lots of happy visitors to Brighton and booming businesses in this part of town! Fantastic!
No we won't. Now **** off back to Islington.
[quote][p][bold]jo_brown[/bold] wrote: .....and meanwhile we will have a new tourist attraction, a regenerated part of this once-lively and beautiful, now neglected and shabby part of the seafront, lots of happy visitors to Brighton and booming businesses in this part of town! Fantastic![/p][/quote]No we won't. Now **** off back to Islington. PorkyChopper
  • Score: 3

6:33pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Eugenius, you are so full of yourself you bestowed the name of a great roman emperor upon yourself. Now that's narcissism at its greatest and your party certainly likes to think its above us all dictating how we should feel and live from your ivory or boring tower,
Thankfully, we are all still free to think and write reviews and comment, despite your clear vision of running an empire where we worship and obey you.
I suggest readers visit the various review sites themselves and there's nothing more honest than kids.
It's time you stood down from your self appointed position.
Eugenius, you are so full of yourself you bestowed the name of a great roman emperor upon yourself. Now that's narcissism at its greatest and your party certainly likes to think its above us all dictating how we should feel and live from your ivory or boring tower, Thankfully, we are all still free to think and write reviews and comment, despite your clear vision of running an empire where we worship and obey you. I suggest readers visit the various review sites themselves and there's nothing more honest than kids. It's time you stood down from your self appointed position. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 1

8:52pm Wed 12 Mar 14

bjkemptown says...

I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.
I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is. bjkemptown
  • Score: 2

10:29pm Wed 12 Mar 14

onerob says...

I wonder how many people moaning about the i360 had the same attitude towards the 2012 Olympics?
I wonder how many people moaning about the i360 had the same attitude towards the 2012 Olympics? onerob
  • Score: 1

10:37pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Eugenius says...

fredflintstone1 wrote:
Eugenius wrote:
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you.

For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.
Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl

e.

In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher.

I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed?
Yes but the negative comments about Brighton Wheel seem to be about the expensive photographs that are offered and the disappointing champagne experience... 9 out of 10 reviewers say the views are great, fantastic.
[quote][p][bold]fredflintstone1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.[/p][/quote]People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you. For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.[/p][/quote]Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl e. In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher. I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed?[/p][/quote]Yes but the negative comments about Brighton Wheel seem to be about the expensive photographs that are offered and the disappointing champagne experience... 9 out of 10 reviewers say the views are great, fantastic. Eugenius
  • Score: 0

11:02pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Eugenius says...

bjkemptown wrote:
I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.
My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts.

i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining.

I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success.
[quote][p][bold]bjkemptown[/bold] wrote: I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.[/p][/quote]My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts. i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining. I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success. Eugenius
  • Score: 4

11:12pm Wed 12 Mar 14

Roundbill says...

Clearly refurbishing the Brighton Centre, the King Alfred or the Prince Regent, but the head narcissist wants to have an edifice to himself by the West Pier, like some invading empire building temples on the on the ruins of a former holy sites. Jason Kitcat (for I know he watches us) are you familiar with Shelley's poem Ozymandias? That's you, that is.
Clearly refurbishing the Brighton Centre, the King Alfred or the Prince Regent, but the head narcissist wants to have an edifice to himself by the West Pier, like some invading empire building temples on the on the ruins of a former holy sites. Jason Kitcat (for I know he watches us) are you familiar with Shelley's poem Ozymandias? That's you, that is. Roundbill
  • Score: 0

12:41am Thu 13 Mar 14

saveHOVE says...

Eugenius wrote:
bjkemptown wrote:
I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.
My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts.

i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining.

I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success.
What desperate spin.

I have it on IMPECCABLE authority that BHCC did not bother to request visitor figures from the Brighton Wheel operators which makes profit comparison of any worth a matter of conjecture and no better.

As for the pole being "remarkably thin": compared to what?. It is four metres in diameter.

If you really believed in the i360 you would not feel the need to promote it - either here, or in The Guardian....
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bjkemptown[/bold] wrote: I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.[/p][/quote]My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts. i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining. I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success.[/p][/quote]What desperate spin. I have it on IMPECCABLE authority that BHCC did not bother to request visitor figures from the Brighton Wheel operators which makes profit comparison of any worth a matter of conjecture and no better. As for the pole being "remarkably thin": compared to what?. It is four metres in diameter. If you really believed in the i360 you would not feel the need to promote it - either here, or in The Guardian.... saveHOVE
  • Score: 2

4:32am Thu 13 Mar 14

Gribbet says...

Johnwilson23 wrote:
100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton
needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla

sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.
Yep.
[quote][p][bold]Johnwilson23[/bold] wrote: 100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.[/p][/quote]Yep. Gribbet
  • Score: 1

6:57am Thu 13 Mar 14

Kristin Magnuson says...

The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment.

i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning.

To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following:

Daily rubbish and recycling collection
Public transport along the seafront
Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront
Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops
Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done?
Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion

If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least.

Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.
The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment. i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning. To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following: Daily rubbish and recycling collection Public transport along the seafront Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done? Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least. Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it. Kristin Magnuson
  • Score: 1

10:10am Thu 13 Mar 14

fredflintstone1 says...

Eugenius wrote:
fredflintstone1 wrote:
Eugenius wrote:
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame.
Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour.
I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses.
Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.
People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you.

For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.
Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl


e.

In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher.

I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed?
Yes but the negative comments about Brighton Wheel seem to be about the expensive photographs that are offered and the disappointing champagne experience... 9 out of 10 reviewers say the views are great, fantastic.
Unbelieveable! You just don't give up spinning, do you? That is simply not the case. 280 reviews (9 out of 10) for the Brighton Wheel do NOT mention 'great, fantastic' views. There's plenty talking about the experience not being worthwhile, and too expensive, plus how expensive Brighton generally is......
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fredflintstone1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I don't think a tower is modern. Look at the comments on tripadvisor about the Brighton wheel - the view is described as lame. Most cities have had wheels and towers up for more than a decade and that star seems to be waning - the wheel spends most of its weekdays turning empty, hour after hour. I recently had a friend stay with me and I asked his kids if they wanted to go on the wheel and visit the sealife centre - no, apparently they want to climb on or in things and fall off things or go on a double deck bus and sit right at the front as they never use buses. Old fashioned climbing frames and buses seemed more attractive than staring at fish tanks and views but I guess these kids are in a digital age and see amazing stuff on screen so a tower view seems pretty lame.[/p][/quote]People should definitely go and take a look at the Brighton wheel reviews on tripadvisor. Either you get a kick out of fibbing to everyone or your mind is playing tricks with you. For the Brighton Fringe this year someone should create one of those virtual reality headset tours - call it "bubble of misery", it will simulate Brighton as seen through the eyes of an Argus commenter.[/p][/quote]Eugenius, as maths and statistics clearly aren't your strong point, as is evident from your comments on the 20mph zone extension story, it is only fair to point out to you that over 35% of the reviews about the Brighton wheel on Tripadvisor rank it as average/poor/terribl e. In contrast, the equivalent figure for the London Eye is just 17.7%. So you can conclude that twice as many people think the London Eye is a better experience than Brighton's Wheel, especially taking into account the overall sample size - 311 vs 10,999 at the current time. The Wheel does even feature in the Top 20 of Brighton's attractions - even Ghost Walks of the Lanes ranks higher. I don't see how you can accuse Maxwell's Ghost of fibbing, and as someone purporting to be so close to the seat of the power in the city, surely you should be better informed?[/p][/quote]Yes but the negative comments about Brighton Wheel seem to be about the expensive photographs that are offered and the disappointing champagne experience... 9 out of 10 reviewers say the views are great, fantastic.[/p][/quote]Unbelieveable! You just don't give up spinning, do you? That is simply not the case. 280 reviews (9 out of 10) for the Brighton Wheel do NOT mention 'great, fantastic' views. There's plenty talking about the experience not being worthwhile, and too expensive, plus how expensive Brighton generally is...... fredflintstone1
  • Score: 2

11:12am Thu 13 Mar 14

Richada says...

Eugenius wrote:
bjkemptown wrote:
I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.
My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts.

i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining.

I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success.
Same design characteristics as the London Eye?

What on earth are you talking about?

How can an observation TOWER (a donut going up and down a shaft) share design characteristics with a giant WHEEL?

Also you say......."if the i360 is a success".......that does not sound like you at all - are you finally starting to see the light over the projected visitor numbers perhaps?
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bjkemptown[/bold] wrote: I can't support the I360 at all considering the wheel can't attract a full load. If 750k extra tourists could be achieved the infrastructure can't cope. I would support a New West Pier, state of the art. Using solar, wave and wind power to help the energy requirements. How about a water bus during the summer season to and from the Marina, which has free parking. Our current architecture desperately needs attention, just take a look at Madeira Drive. This should be a major attraction to walk by, not the current eye sore it is.[/p][/quote]My theory is that Brighton Wheel isn't that busy because from the ground it doesn't look tall enough to offer spectacular views, but it's more fun than you expect. And it's turning a profit by all accounts. i360 will look spectacular, with the same design characteristics as the London Eye but even taller. As far as I can tell it's going to be the most futuristic looking attraction in the country. And it's remarkably thin, so won't spoil the views as some conservationists are complaining. I really like the sound of your eco pier and water bus, and I hope you can appreciate that such improvements are more likely to follow if the i360 is a success.[/p][/quote]Same design characteristics as the London Eye? What on earth are you talking about? How can an observation TOWER (a donut going up and down a shaft) share design characteristics with a giant WHEEL? Also you say......."if the i360 is a success".......that does not sound like you at all - are you finally starting to see the light over the projected visitor numbers perhaps? Richada
  • Score: 3

4:25pm Thu 13 Mar 14

saveHOVE says...

Gribbet wrote:
Johnwilson23 wrote:
100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton
needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla


sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.
Yep.
Now over 400 signatures on the petition. Includes architects, developers, planning experts, the former Chair of the Economic Partnership too.

None of them would normally break ranks to do this. But they know just how bad and risky this is.

Sign the petition! http://www.change.or
g/en-GB/petitions/uk
-public-works-loan-b
oard-please-refuse-t
he-bhcc-loan-request
-for-36-2m-for-onwar
d-lending-to-brighto
n-i360-ltd-to-build-
the-i360-on-brighton
-s-seafront
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Johnwilson23[/bold] wrote: 100 signatories.Do you think it is time to move to a retirement village,Brighton needs to get modern and not stuck in the sixties.Just look at M/cr/Leeds/Lpool/Gla sgow etc etc.Brighton is so dated.The KA,the cinemas/west st/Churchill Sq/West pier.We need forward thinking planners.[/p][/quote]Yep.[/p][/quote]Now over 400 signatures on the petition. Includes architects, developers, planning experts, the former Chair of the Economic Partnership too. None of them would normally break ranks to do this. But they know just how bad and risky this is. Sign the petition! http://www.change.or g/en-GB/petitions/uk -public-works-loan-b oard-please-refuse-t he-bhcc-loan-request -for-36-2m-for-onwar d-lending-to-brighto n-i360-ltd-to-build- the-i360-on-brighton -s-seafront saveHOVE
  • Score: 3

11:06pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Eugenius says...

Kristin Magnuson wrote:
The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment.

i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning.

To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following:

Daily rubbish and recycling collection
Public transport along the seafront
Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront
Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops
Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done?
Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion

If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least.

Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.
I think you make a lot of good points, and I more or less agree with you about the "get modern" motive, except it is about raising Brighton's profile as a tourist destination and boosting business confidence for inward investment. If we don't have a successful local economy then public services will suffer too. With the cut backs in funding the council is more reliant than ever on business rates and would struggle to bear the burden of high unemployment and a low wage economy because of the double whammy of increased demand for help services and increased benefit payments.

None of your other good suggestions are opportunity costs of the i360, because the Public Works Loan Board funding stream for i360 is esoteric and only available for profit bearing schemes.

Daily rubbish and recycling collections - sadly unaffordable with the level of cuts the council is facing. If we had the full fleet of vehicles operational it probably wouldn't need to be that frequent. New lorries are on the way and the shift to communal recycling in the city centre should help speed up collections but we're not out of the woods yet.

Public transport along the seafront & connection to stations - I believe Brighton & Hove buses are planning to open a new seafront service this summer. There was a grand plan for an express bus service between the stations and marina and King Alfred several years ago but it was scuppered when the major developments fell through because of the recession. In a sense you have to create the demand first then the infrastructure will follow.

Encourage small businesses to fill empty shops - yes, already doing that, contracted scheme with wearepopup.com

Market - London Road Open Market reopening this spring

Additional High School - we're actively looking for a suitable site.
[quote][p][bold]Kristin Magnuson[/bold] wrote: The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment. i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning. To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following: Daily rubbish and recycling collection Public transport along the seafront Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done? Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least. Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.[/p][/quote]I think you make a lot of good points, and I more or less agree with you about the "get modern" motive, except it is about raising Brighton's profile as a tourist destination and boosting business confidence for inward investment. If we don't have a successful local economy then public services will suffer too. With the cut backs in funding the council is more reliant than ever on business rates and would struggle to bear the burden of high unemployment and a low wage economy because of the double whammy of increased demand for help services and increased benefit payments. None of your other good suggestions are opportunity costs of the i360, because the Public Works Loan Board funding stream for i360 is esoteric and only available for profit bearing schemes. Daily rubbish and recycling collections - sadly unaffordable with the level of cuts the council is facing. If we had the full fleet of vehicles operational it probably wouldn't need to be that frequent. New lorries are on the way and the shift to communal recycling in the city centre should help speed up collections but we're not out of the woods yet. Public transport along the seafront & connection to stations - I believe Brighton & Hove buses are planning to open a new seafront service this summer. There was a grand plan for an express bus service between the stations and marina and King Alfred several years ago but it was scuppered when the major developments fell through because of the recession. In a sense you have to create the demand first then the infrastructure will follow. Encourage small businesses to fill empty shops - yes, already doing that, contracted scheme with wearepopup.com Market - London Road Open Market reopening this spring Additional High School - we're actively looking for a suitable site. Eugenius
  • Score: -2

10:32am Sat 15 Mar 14

saveHOVE says...

Eugenius wrote:
Kristin Magnuson wrote:
The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment.

i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning.

To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following:

Daily rubbish and recycling collection
Public transport along the seafront
Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront
Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops
Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done?
Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion

If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least.

Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.
I think you make a lot of good points, and I more or less agree with you about the "get modern" motive, except it is about raising Brighton's profile as a tourist destination and boosting business confidence for inward investment. If we don't have a successful local economy then public services will suffer too. With the cut backs in funding the council is more reliant than ever on business rates and would struggle to bear the burden of high unemployment and a low wage economy because of the double whammy of increased demand for help services and increased benefit payments.

None of your other good suggestions are opportunity costs of the i360, because the Public Works Loan Board funding stream for i360 is esoteric and only available for profit bearing schemes.

Daily rubbish and recycling collections - sadly unaffordable with the level of cuts the council is facing. If we had the full fleet of vehicles operational it probably wouldn't need to be that frequent. New lorries are on the way and the shift to communal recycling in the city centre should help speed up collections but we're not out of the woods yet.

Public transport along the seafront & connection to stations - I believe Brighton & Hove buses are planning to open a new seafront service this summer. There was a grand plan for an express bus service between the stations and marina and King Alfred several years ago but it was scuppered when the major developments fell through because of the recession. In a sense you have to create the demand first then the infrastructure will follow.

Encourage small businesses to fill empty shops - yes, already doing that, contracted scheme with wearepopup.com

Market - London Road Open Market reopening this spring

Additional High School - we're actively looking for a suitable site.
If BHCC is serious about making good use of the PWLB opportunity it needs to seek to loan to projects that investors are clamouring to back or who are at least seriously on board - not this impact-laden, city wrecker that never attracted full private investor funding. What funding it did attract, BOLTED.

Only £6m of Marks Barfield family money remains in the i360 pot - probably representing money already spent over the last 8 years by them. Very rash to have got the pole manufactured before it got its house in order funding-wise. Why should BHCC refund this?
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kristin Magnuson[/bold] wrote: The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment. i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning. To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following: Daily rubbish and recycling collection Public transport along the seafront Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done? Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least. Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.[/p][/quote]I think you make a lot of good points, and I more or less agree with you about the "get modern" motive, except it is about raising Brighton's profile as a tourist destination and boosting business confidence for inward investment. If we don't have a successful local economy then public services will suffer too. With the cut backs in funding the council is more reliant than ever on business rates and would struggle to bear the burden of high unemployment and a low wage economy because of the double whammy of increased demand for help services and increased benefit payments. None of your other good suggestions are opportunity costs of the i360, because the Public Works Loan Board funding stream for i360 is esoteric and only available for profit bearing schemes. Daily rubbish and recycling collections - sadly unaffordable with the level of cuts the council is facing. If we had the full fleet of vehicles operational it probably wouldn't need to be that frequent. New lorries are on the way and the shift to communal recycling in the city centre should help speed up collections but we're not out of the woods yet. Public transport along the seafront & connection to stations - I believe Brighton & Hove buses are planning to open a new seafront service this summer. There was a grand plan for an express bus service between the stations and marina and King Alfred several years ago but it was scuppered when the major developments fell through because of the recession. In a sense you have to create the demand first then the infrastructure will follow. Encourage small businesses to fill empty shops - yes, already doing that, contracted scheme with wearepopup.com Market - London Road Open Market reopening this spring Additional High School - we're actively looking for a suitable site.[/p][/quote]If BHCC is serious about making good use of the PWLB opportunity it needs to seek to loan to projects that investors are clamouring to back or who are at least seriously on board - not this impact-laden, city wrecker that never attracted full private investor funding. What funding it did attract, BOLTED. Only £6m of Marks Barfield family money remains in the i360 pot - probably representing money already spent over the last 8 years by them. Very rash to have got the pole manufactured before it got its house in order funding-wise. Why should BHCC refund this? saveHOVE
  • Score: 9

12:55pm Sat 15 Mar 14

onerob says...

Kristin Magnuson wrote:
The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment.

i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning.

To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following:

Daily rubbish and recycling collection
Public transport along the seafront
Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront
Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops
Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done?
Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion

If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least.

Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.
Modernity isn't simply concerned with efficient amenities. The Eiffel Tower was built to express modernity – was that 'parochial'?

As for the Brighton Centre, it actually has been hugely important to the profile and economy of the town. Of course, it's hardly perfect and showing its age, but still a plus.

Churchill Square is a generic shopping mall, yes. They have plenty of those in London too. It's not all boho markets and pop-up shops in the capital. But as it happens, we have a new market development opening this year: http://www.brightono
penmarket.co.uk

You may find the tower tacky but so is the Royal Pavilion and the pier. I'd argue, if anything, with its sleek lines and minimal footprint, the i360 is a pretty good attempt at a modern tourist attraction.
[quote][p][bold]Kristin Magnuson[/bold] wrote: The tower is not a representation of Brighton being "modern". Modernity is about understanding the built environment, using sustainable transport (pedestrian, cyclists and public transport - not cars) and planning new architecture that takes into consideration the natural and built environment. i360 does not do this. It is a parochial attempt - in the same vein as Churchill Square, Brighton Centre and Holiday Inn - to "get modern" without any understanding urban planning. To make Brighton modern I suggest the council consider the following: Daily rubbish and recycling collection Public transport along the seafront Connected public transport to and from train stations to seafront Actively encourage small businesses to fill empty high street shops Have a proper market - maybe a reconnaissance to one of the over 35 markets in London to see how it is done? Build an additional high school that isn't affiliated with a religion If these things were done, rather than the embarrassing, small town tower (Brighton - Portsmouth got there first. This should be telling you something) the Brighton slide would be halted, temporarily at least. Unfortunately, the local mayor loves Brighton & Hove's rakish appearance and the leader of the council loves his car. Maybe if both would get from behind the wheel and walk a bit more, they would see that the town isn't rakish, just a rubbish tip. And, no, the 360 development isn't going to solve this - only add to it.[/p][/quote]Modernity isn't simply concerned with efficient amenities. The Eiffel Tower was built to express modernity – was that 'parochial'? As for the Brighton Centre, it actually has been hugely important to the profile and economy of the town. Of course, it's hardly perfect and showing its age, but still a plus. Churchill Square is a generic shopping mall, yes. They have plenty of those in London too. It's not all boho markets and pop-up shops in the capital. But as it happens, we have a new market development opening this year: http://www.brightono penmarket.co.uk You may find the tower tacky but so is the Royal Pavilion and the pier. I'd argue, if anything, with its sleek lines and minimal footprint, the i360 is a pretty good attempt at a modern tourist attraction. onerob
  • Score: -2

10:30pm Sun 16 Mar 14

Richada says...

For anyone who is interested in signing it, there is a government e-petition: http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/61662
For anyone who is interested in signing it, there is a government e-petition: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/61662 Richada
  • Score: 0

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