School bus company banned from the road (From The Argus)

Why are West sussex continuing to use a company that holds the law in such low regard that they're prepared to collude with drivers who run red lights and speed so they don't face prosecution?

This is an absolute joke. The company should have it's operators license withdrawn; this is not the first offence and it is clear that the company has ignored all reasonable requests to put it's house in order and quite clearly doesn't give a fig about the law or the safety of it's passengers. To quote the article;

“The weight of the sanctions brought against J&M Brown Coaches shows the seriousness with which the Traffic Commissioner views its actions.

“Despite numerous warnings and 39 different offences being submitted to the company, it is disappointing that it took no action to remedy failings, thereby putting the safety of the customers at risk.”

If I were a parent I woulod be insisting that the council provides an alternative method of getting my child to and from school. Seriously people. ask yourselves "am I happy my child is on a Crawley Luxury coach"?

Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

If the suspension is for 7 days from the 1st January, why are West Sussex County Council potentially waiting until 7th January to inform parents of changes?

The rolling of a roll up is quite an art form.

Using the pouch or baccy tin,fag paper,licking and loading it,then light it & and trying to covertly blow it out the window !!!

All with a bunch of at least 20 to 50 kids on board.

They should be fined or lined up naked and left out all night in the cold.

toldsloth wrote:
Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

Now we know why some of Brighton and Hove's bus drivers feel that they can drive as they do. Clearly there aren't effective penalties for repeated breaches. It's not all of their drivers but, as an experienced car driver, some frighten me with their speed and ignoring of lights.

It seems odd, car drivers are penalised yet drivers of larger vehicles which can cause much more damage in an accident are not.....

What a joke!

" will now have its operator’s licence suspended for seven days from January 1"

West Sussex schools return on 7th. So they get one day not to endanger the lives of their young passengers.

Surely if their drivers are irresponsible enough not to keep to the speed limits so often they should lose the contract. If I had a child on one of their coaches I would be asking serious questions of West Sussex.

Good grief, why is this company even allowed to continue in business? They seem to be quite deliberately flouting the law. Sadly their actions confirm what I see on a regular basis when it comes to coach drivers - they are reckless and frankly scary to drive in front of, especially along the A27. Stick to the speed limit and they'll mow you down!

NickBtn wrote:

toldsloth wrote:
Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

Now we know why some of Brighton and Hove's bus drivers feel that they can drive as they do. Clearly there aren't effective penalties for repeated breaches. It's not all of their drivers but, as an experienced car driver, some frighten me with their speed and ignoring of lights.

It seems odd, car drivers are penalised yet drivers of larger vehicles which can cause much more damage in an accident are not.....

B&H have never responded to a complaint yet and I've even gone to the inspector on duty at Churchill Square and complained when a driver went through three red lights and they simply didn't want to know "I would suggest you call or write to the company" was the response. Not interested in other words. I still have an email I sent to Roger French complaining about one the behaviour of one of his drivers and he didn't even have the courtesy to send a two line "thank you for your email, we will be investigating in due course" etc etc.
I urge people to call the Police and give the number fo the bus if you have any concerns. I will be doing so from now on because B&H couldn't give a fig.

There are plenty more school contract busses and coaches that regularly exceed the speed limits, just follow (not too closely) some of those going along the country lanes near to Chailey School. And don't forget that PCVs have speed limits that are different (lower) than those signed in many cases.

B&H bus drivers are the worst. Pull out in front of you a lot from side roads. And for running red lights. Queens Road Brighton at the junction with North Road heading towards the station. The lights change to red and they make no attempt to stop even if some distance away from the lights.

Well Metrobus in Crawley are brilliant in my opinion.

yaddab wrote:
What a joke! " will now have its operator’s licence suspended for seven days from January 1" West Sussex schools return on 7th. So they get one day not to endanger the lives of their young passengers. Surely if their drivers are irresponsible enough not to keep to the speed limits so often they should lose the contract. If I had a child on one of their coaches I would be asking serious questions of West Sussex.

Completely agree, WSCC have 12 contracts with this company and yet, despite the repeated and serious nature of the offences appear happy to continue to use this supplier to transport hundreds of the county's school children about. Interestingly the WSCC Tranport Policy states that "The safety and welfare of children is of paramount importance." as the opening line of its Code of Practice to transport operators, wonder how they square that off with the actions of this particular supplier. WSCC must stop using them immediately.

Companies like this give the whole of the industry a bad name.

West Sussex County Council have it in their power to rescind all of their contracts at a stroke because they are quite clearly failing to operate to the required standard.

If they choose not to exercise this right, then they are effectively condoning this behaviour.

WSCC are responsible for the safety of the students using home to school transport, so they have an obligation to take action.

I can't believe they have been let off so lightly by the Traffic Commissioner. If Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas believes this is a fitting punishment, he must be living on another planet.

i'm afraid that this is very typical behavoiur of this company and it's directors, for along time they have believed the law ,in more than one criteria, does not apply to them,i hope that it gives them a kick up the backside,but more than likely they will make their staff suffer before that happens.

Crawley Luxury is surely an oxymoron ?

crawley luxury coaches have been doing wscc and east sussex school buse run for years and with no accidents and my children and grandchildren go on there coaches and i am very happy for them to do so

toldsloth wrote:
Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

wondered how long it would be before B&H was mentioned, even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

ps -get a life

I reported this company to the police last week following my daughter calling me whilst on the bus on her way home from school. We live in Surrey and Crawley Luxury are the providers for a lot of school services here. My daughter called me because the bus had driven over some wood and this had punctured one of the back tyres. the driver decided that it was safe to travel a 6 miles with a coach full of children. My daughter rang becuase she was scared, so I went and met the bus and the start of our village. The driver saw me but decided he would quickly close the doors and continue his journey with a completely flat tyre by this point. He had travelled from our local town to our village on the very busy A24 at approx 10mph. The only way to stop the bus was to stand in the road, so I did!!!! When the police finally arrived after and hour I was ibformed that there was nothing they could do becuase they hadn't witnessed him driving like that??? I asked if the 40 children on board could be used as witnesses to be told no. I spoke with SCC who are under going a throrough investigation and the driver was suspended pending further investagtion but would probably not be allowed to drive on school runs again. This in my eyes is not good enough as this is not the first time CL have let down my daughter and the other children on the bus. I have just e-mailed SCC with the link to the article and I hope that our county councils act on this befoer a child is seriously hurt or worse because of Crawley Luxury's failings.

All 9 of me wrote:
Crawley Luxury is surely an oxymoron ?

You beat me to it!

D5 wrote:

toldsloth wrote:
Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

wondered how long it would be before B&H was mentioned, even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

ps -get a life

Actually if youy bothered to read my original posting you would see the link - I asked if the Chief Inspector would consider turning his attention to B&H.

Perhaps you work for B&H?

Might explain your laughable comment "get a life" - actually B&H have taken a fair few of other peoples in their time and unless they police their driving standards more carefully, they will no doubt be involved in many more accidents.

You will also note that I was careful to state my comments were aimed at SOME drivers. I was also careful to point out that I was commenting on the MINORITY of idiots that seem to think they can drive a bus without regard for their passengers and other road users.

I have no doubt the same applies to other bus and coach companies however as I use B&H regularly, my experiences are related to them and nobody else.

Perhaps you just don't give a fig or are one of their less ......."considerate" drivers?

paul76 wrote:
B&H bus drivers are the worst. Pull out in front of you a lot from side roads. And for running red lights. Queens Road Brighton at the junction with North Road heading towards the station. The lights change to red and they make no attempt to stop even if some distance away from the lights.

All of them are the worst are they. Actually most of the B&H drivers are very good. If they weren't there'd be many accidents daily involving the suicidal pedestrians, cyclists and other motor vehicles.

toldsloth wrote:

D5 wrote:

toldsloth wrote:
Perhaps Chief Inspector Phil Nicholas, of Sussex Police’s roads policing unit could now turn his attention to Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Some (I stress SOME) of their drivers speed and ignore lights. I witness one deliberatly aiming for a pedestrian who had tried to nip across North Street on Saturday and the swearing that came from the driver in response to the pedestrians complaints. Unfirtunately I didn't get the number of the bus however I doubt it would have done any good - I have reported drivers a number of times for serious offences such as ight jumping and NEVER received a response from B&H. PSV drivers must never forget they have the lives of a number of people in their hands both inside and outside the bus and drive accordingly. The vast majority do however their is a minority that needs to find another job, preferably one where they cannot risk anybodys life other than their own.

wondered how long it would be before B&H was mentioned, even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

ps -get a life

Actually if youy bothered to read my original posting you would see the link - I asked if the Chief Inspector would consider turning his attention to B&H.

Perhaps you work for B&H?

Might explain your laughable comment "get a life" - actually B&H have taken a fair few of other peoples in their time and unless they police their driving standards more carefully, they will no doubt be involved in many more accidents.

You will also note that I was careful to state my comments were aimed at SOME drivers. I was also careful to point out that I was commenting on the MINORITY of idiots that seem to think they can drive a bus without regard for their passengers and other road users.

I have no doubt the same applies to other bus and coach companies however as I use B&H regularly, my experiences are related to them and nobody else.

Perhaps you just don't give a fig or are one of their less ......."considerate" drivers?

Did the pedestrian 'nipping' across North Street in front of the bus consider how long it takes to slow a bus down safely without hurting the passengers on board? No I doubt it.

As for B&H drivers taking lives, can you point me in the direction of someone getting killed by a bus in Brighton & Hove where it was the bus drivers fault? I'm having real trouble finding anything.

“The weight of the sanctions brought against J&M Brown Coaches shows the seriousness with which the Traffic Commissioner views its actions."

no it doesnt - a 7 day suspension says nothing to that effect

taking their license away and the schools cancelling their contracts would show that they took it seriously

Take ALL of the contracts away from this disgraceful company PERMANENTLY. I'm sure that there are other companies that would rush to fill the gaps. I wouldn't want to let my grandchildren go on any of the coaches of this joke company. No doubt the Traffic Commissioner has no relatives that travel on these coaches. Safety of the children is paramount. The commissioner should be ashamed!!!

Surely the issue here is that WSCC appointed J&M Brown Coaches (Crawley Luxury Coaches) due to the cost of the contract.

I suspect that is why the punishment is a joke and why the coach company and it's drivers feel untouchable....

If the transport manager has been banned who will hold the operators licence ? ( you can not operate without one ) All of the drivers should hold drivers CPCs which also makes them liable for transgressions.

I am amazed that the councils have already said they will continue to use this company when there appears to be no real incentive for them to operate safely and is thus a slap in the face for those companies who by default obviously do and have to probably incur extra costs to do so.

runnergirl wrote:
Good grief, why is this company even allowed to continue in business? They seem to be quite deliberately flouting the law. Sadly their actions confirm what I see on a regular basis when it comes to coach drivers - they are reckless and frankly scary to drive in front of, especially along the A27. Stick to the speed limit and they'll mow you down!

if you was observing the speed limit runnergirl they wouldnt be mowing you down buses and coaches are limited to 62mph so you in your car are 8mph+ faster than any psv vehicle you are obviously the annoying minority that does 55 mph and once they try and overtake you you put your foot down how dangerous are you?? VERY

if the drivers had been speeding under EC driving regs they would have a taco,recording speed etc with the drivers name on the taco...if the coaches were made after 05 then a didital taco would be in place belonging to the driver responsable,,but as this was a school contract DOMESTIC hey ho no taco,,and then free to put one in after and then drive for 10 hrs using a taco switching back to EC break even more rules and endanger more lives.they say they cant tell who was driving p*** poor excuse.

olebut wrote:
If the transport manager has been banned who will hold the operators licence ? ( you can not operate without one ) All of the drivers should hold drivers CPCs which also makes them liable for transgressions.

I am amazed that the councils have already said they will continue to use this company when there appears to be no real incentive for them to operate safely and is thus a slap in the face for those companies who by default obviously do and have to probably incur extra costs to do so.

The drivers CPC only comes into effect for established drivers in September 2013, as those who passed their PCV test before 10th September 2008 had acquired rights. I have my CPC card now as I did all the periodic training necessary in the time frame. New drivers have tro do the whole syllabus (effectively another test)

ghost bus driver wrote:

olebut wrote: If the transport manager has been banned who will hold the operators licence ? ( you can not operate without one ) All of the drivers should hold drivers CPCs which also makes them liable for transgressions. I am amazed that the councils have already said they will continue to use this company when there appears to be no real incentive for them to operate safely and is thus a slap in the face for those companies who by default obviously do and have to probably incur extra costs to do so.

The drivers CPC only comes into effect for established drivers in September 2013, as those who passed their PCV test before 10th September 2008 had acquired rights. I have my CPC card now as I did all the periodic training necessary in the time frame. New drivers have tro do the whole syllabus (effectively another test)

Find below extract from email received from Henry Smith, Crawley MP regarding WSCC use of CLC

Thank you for your email regarding West Sussex County Council’s (WSCC) use of Crawley Luxury Coaches for school transportation.

As a parent myself I can quite understand your concerns in light of recent reports of safety breaches by the company and that CLC is used by Hazelwick School where your son attends. Consequently I have written to the Chief Executive of WSCC requesting his comments on the use of CLC.

I will of course contact you as soon as I receive a response.

Yours sincerely

Henry Smith MP
Crawley Constituency

CrawleyParent wrote:

ghost bus driver wrote:

olebut wrote: If the transport manager has been banned who will hold the operators licence ? ( you can not operate without one ) All of the drivers should hold drivers CPCs which also makes them liable for transgressions. I am amazed that the councils have already said they will continue to use this company when there appears to be no real incentive for them to operate safely and is thus a slap in the face for those companies who by default obviously do and have to probably incur extra costs to do so.

The drivers CPC only comes into effect for established drivers in September 2013, as those who passed their PCV test before 10th September 2008 had acquired rights. I have my CPC card now as I did all the periodic training necessary in the time frame. New drivers have tro do the whole syllabus (effectively another test)

Find below extract from email received from Henry Smith, Crawley MP regarding WSCC use of CLC

Thank you for your email regarding West Sussex County Council’s (WSCC) use of Crawley Luxury Coaches for school transportation.

As a parent myself I can quite understand your concerns in light of recent reports of safety breaches by the company and that CLC is used by Hazelwick School where your son attends. Consequently I have written to the Chief Executive of WSCC requesting his comments on the use of CLC.

I will of course contact you as soon as I receive a response.

Yours sincerely

Henry Smith MP
Crawley Constituency

Crawley Luxury are well known in the industry for things like this. I could never say I was surprised. I could tell you a few others who operate along similar lines too. Starting with H...