The ArgusCalls for blitz on Brighton and Hove council managers (From The Argus)

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Calls for blitz on Brighton and Hove council managers

A blitz on bureaucracy has been called for after claims one in ten town hall workers are “managers”.

This comes as Brighton and Hove City Council is tasked with cutting £25million from its budget in 2013/14.

The local authority maintains its plans, which will be finalised in February, will continue to provide value for money to the taxpayer.

But opposition councillors claim the “top-heavy” local authority does not have management structure charts which private businesses use when keeping track of finances and staff numbers.

They add there are 500 town hall workers who are deemed “managers” out of a core staff of about 5,000.

With the addition of school staff, there are more than 8,000 city council employees.

Conservative councillor Tony Janio said: “We as councillors are being asked to make some very big decisions about what to cut.

“We’re just told which services we should take money away from but I believe we should be a bit more grown up about it and look a bit deeper.

“We cannot go through this whole thing where officers provide us headline figures without the managerial structure behind it.”

Job titles

An ‘outdated structure’ Councillor Janio, who raised the issue in the council chamber, claims a search of the local authority’s website revealed there are about 500 members of the workforce who have “manager” in their job title.

Coun Janio added a further 297 had the term “supervisor” while there were 14 personal assistants.

He said: “I think it’s too much. I’m concerned that people in the council are being given the manager title so they can receive a pay rise without actually doing a manager’s job.

“It’s not the way to run a business, which is what the council is. It’s an outdated structure and we need to look again at cutting out some of the bureaucracy.”

But Alex Knutsen, of Unison trade union, said: “Coun Janio is comparing apples with pears and he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about.”

Essential services

Council leader Jason Kitcat said: “We deliver 800 services for our city, so it’s vital that we employ managers to make sure those services meet the standards that our residents deserve.

“As with any other major organisation with a sizeable workforce, we have managers at all levels in services ranging from libraries and social services to waste collection and housing.

“We are constantly striving to improve value for money and so far this year we have achieved almost £3.4million worth of savings.

“In total our value for money programme will deliver £10 million in savings this year and we plan on over £8million in savings next year.”

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Comments (19)

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3:04pm Tue 18 Dec 12

NickBrt says...

How many of the Council 'workers' actually work? Are there figures for that?
How many of the Council 'workers' actually work? Are there figures for that? NickBrt
  • Score: 0

4:13pm Tue 18 Dec 12

NickBtn says...

Are there really no management structure charts? How can the Councillors or senior managers make decisions and savings without these and clear role descriptions. I've worked in a number of businesses - all had these why not the council?
Are there really no management structure charts? How can the Councillors or senior managers make decisions and savings without these and clear role descriptions. I've worked in a number of businesses - all had these why not the council? NickBtn
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Nick Brighton says...

Whether a person has the word 'manager' in their job description, is neither here nor there. They may manage people or a function, so they have manager in their job title. What's important is the job description and its position in the organisation. Unless you know the job description, you cannot tell whether the job needs doing at all, or can be amalgamated with other another role. Let's not get hung up on titles.
Whether a person has the word 'manager' in their job description, is neither here nor there. They may manage people or a function, so they have manager in their job title. What's important is the job description and its position in the organisation. Unless you know the job description, you cannot tell whether the job needs doing at all, or can be amalgamated with other another role. Let's not get hung up on titles. Nick Brighton
  • Score: 0

4:59pm Tue 18 Dec 12

earloflucan says...

I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc
I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse!
I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse! earloflucan
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Council Pound says...

earloflucan wrote:
I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc
I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse!
Excellent post, just to add the majority of managers "made up" within their original Council posts become the biggest bullies.
[quote][p][bold]earloflucan[/bold] wrote: I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse![/p][/quote]Excellent post, just to add the majority of managers "made up" within their original Council posts become the biggest bullies. Council Pound
  • Score: 0

6:40pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Rearrangethedeckchairs says...

It's always great to read the totally fair, balanced and totally unbaised comments in these pages
It's always great to read the totally fair, balanced and totally unbaised comments in these pages Rearrangethedeckchairs
  • Score: 0

6:41pm Tue 18 Dec 12

earloflucan says...

I totally agree, shame on me as that is exactly what I became!
I totally agree, shame on me as that is exactly what I became! earloflucan
  • Score: 0

7:14pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Morpheus says...

What's our new chief executive doing about it?
What's our new chief executive doing about it? Morpheus
  • Score: 0

7:18pm Tue 18 Dec 12

nocando says...

Morpheus wrote:
What's our new chief executive doing about it?
probably buying a bentley.
[quote][p][bold]Morpheus[/bold] wrote: What's our new chief executive doing about it?[/p][/quote]probably buying a bentley. nocando
  • Score: 0

7:34pm Tue 18 Dec 12

ourcoalition says...

Good to see Council Pound back!!!

500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!!

Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k.

Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council.

Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC.

As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!???
Good to see Council Pound back!!! 500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!! Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k. Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council. Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC. As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!??? ourcoalition
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Dave At Home says...

Does the Council actually need any managers? All it needs are people to get off their behinds and do some work, if you have to be 'managed' to do your job, you should not be working there either.

I work a minimum of 45 (paid) hours a week and any time above that and I get paid overtime. I don't get travel allowances or a company car or a company bus pass, I have to run my own vehicle and pay for my petrol, my tax disc and my insurance myself. After I have paid all my bills and shopping there is not much left at the end of the month but at least I can say I have done a honest months work and been paid for what I did, I wouldn't give my company an extra 33 hours worth of work for free.... it really amazes me how some people in the Council can get away with so little work for so much money... and I know a few who are doing just that.
Does the Council actually need any managers? All it needs are people to get off their behinds and do some work, if you have to be 'managed' to do your job, you should not be working there either. I work a minimum of 45 (paid) hours a week and any time above that and I get paid overtime. I don't get travel allowances or a company car or a company bus pass, I have to run my own vehicle and pay for my petrol, my tax disc and my insurance myself. After I have paid all my bills and shopping there is not much left at the end of the month but at least I can say I have done a honest months work and been paid for what I did, I wouldn't give my company an extra 33 hours worth of work for free.... it really amazes me how some people in the Council can get away with so little work for so much money... and I know a few who are doing just that. Dave At Home
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Tue 18 Dec 12

HJarrs says...

Cllr Janio demonstrates why the Tories did such a poor job of running the council when they were in power (all these managers were working under the Tory administration don't forget!). They put the backs up of those working for them with there lack of understanding of how to run a large organisation and motivate their staff. Their government is similarly shambolic.

The relevant issue is not a job title but how effective is the employee and organisation at providing services.
Cllr Janio demonstrates why the Tories did such a poor job of running the council when they were in power (all these managers were working under the Tory administration don't forget!). They put the backs up of those working for them with there lack of understanding of how to run a large organisation and motivate their staff. Their government is similarly shambolic. The relevant issue is not a job title but how effective is the employee and organisation at providing services. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

9:38pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Council Pound says...

ourcoalition wrote:
Good to see Council Pound back!!!

500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!!

Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k.

Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council.

Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC.

As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!???
Knut wheres is my £200 solicitor fee that I paid my subs ans Unison let me down.
[quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Good to see Council Pound back!!! 500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!! Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k. Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council. Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC. As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!???[/p][/quote]Knut wheres is my £200 solicitor fee that I paid my subs ans Unison let me down. Council Pound
  • Score: 0

9:49pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Council Pound says...

I have assumed your name because in fact you are getting larger on the fat of the "Council Pound" You really are the "dogs Knuts"
I have assumed your name because in fact you are getting larger on the fat of the "Council Pound" You really are the "dogs Knuts" Council Pound
  • Score: 0

10:03pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Andy R says...

earloflucan wrote:
I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc
I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse!
Is earloflucan an alias for Walter Mitty?
This is all utter b0ll0x.
[quote][p][bold]earloflucan[/bold] wrote: I am now retired after working as a manager within the highways department for 23 years I can confirm that the Brighton and Hove Council have been running out of control for many years appointing "senior managers" and promoting unskilled and untrained staff in a bureaucratic nightmare governed by political correctness No real managers are allowed to manage as such and are controlled by politics and union pressure there are many many union stewards/ officers who though hold official titles such as refuse workers road sweepers etc in fact have never even carried out any of those duties spending their whole working week on "Official union business" claiming expenses and being provided with the latest technical equipment including iphones ipads etc I took early retirement through frustration and disillusionment just tp get out of the madhouse![/p][/quote]Is earloflucan an alias for Walter Mitty? This is all utter b0ll0x. Andy R
  • Score: 0

10:53pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Instead of continually changing directors and chief execs in the hope of creating a better council which delivers serivces to an efficient and good standard, the leadership needs to take a brave and radical look at the culture which exists in the council, the quality of staff, experience, training, the beliefs and behaviours etc and then create a strategy of how to achieve best performance.
Set performance targets and manage out those who fail and reward those who perform.
The savings made through axing non-performers will pay for the rewards for those who perform and deliver results.
However, so far none of the political parties have dared look inward to save money through performance management, they have all, including the current council, looked at what we, the residents should sacrifice to reach financial targets while continuing with the same mediocre performance.
Instead of continually changing directors and chief execs in the hope of creating a better council which delivers serivces to an efficient and good standard, the leadership needs to take a brave and radical look at the culture which exists in the council, the quality of staff, experience, training, the beliefs and behaviours etc and then create a strategy of how to achieve best performance. Set performance targets and manage out those who fail and reward those who perform. The savings made through axing non-performers will pay for the rewards for those who perform and deliver results. However, so far none of the political parties have dared look inward to save money through performance management, they have all, including the current council, looked at what we, the residents should sacrifice to reach financial targets while continuing with the same mediocre performance. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 0

11:40pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Howard Roark says...

Getting rid of all of the line managers would be a good start. Most seem to be under-qualified, over promoted, unaccountable and generally only there to add another layer of petty bureaucracy.
Getting rid of all of the line managers would be a good start. Most seem to be under-qualified, over promoted, unaccountable and generally only there to add another layer of petty bureaucracy. Howard Roark
  • Score: 0

11:26am Wed 19 Dec 12

Rearrangethedeckchairs says...

ourcoalition wrote:
Good to see Council Pound back!!! 500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!! Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k. Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council. Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC. As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!???
I am sorry ourcoalition but if you are going to be reasonable and quote actual facts rather than the usual bonkers prejudice you could be drummed off this site.

Having said that about too many/overpaid managers- which party got rid of Chief Executive Alan McCarthy, then all the exisitng directors as at a cost of a million and a half or so as an act of political and costly spite and then appointed Barradell and the shower of overpaid new Directos who all but one b******* off to London for even higher paid jobs having done naff all of any use here- err the Tories- Janio's party under the ever scary Mary Mears
[quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Good to see Council Pound back!!! 500 managers - how did Cllr Janio get this information if there are no structure charts. Answer - there are!!! Manager of a Day Centre, Residential Unit, Family Centre, etc.......salary around £18-£20k. Union Officers - I'm one - claiming expenses? Yes, but from the Union, not the Council. Laptop, computer - yes, one at home, and one at work. Paid for by the Union, not the Council. Hours per week - around an average of 70 - 37 paid by the Council, none paid by anyone else. Oh, and as I noted a while ago, we pay towards our facility time, pay a commercial rate for subs collection through payroll, and save the taxpayer (remembering, of course, that our 4,000 members are taxpayers, as well) millions each year in BHCC. As for Cllr Janio - these "wasteful" managers were here when the Tories ran BHCC - why didn't he cut them then. Because they were needed, possibly!!!???[/p][/quote]I am sorry ourcoalition but if you are going to be reasonable and quote actual facts rather than the usual bonkers prejudice you could be drummed off this site. Having said that about too many/overpaid managers- which party got rid of Chief Executive Alan McCarthy, then all the exisitng directors as at a cost of a million and a half or so as an act of political and costly spite and then appointed Barradell and the shower of overpaid new Directos who all but one b******* off to London for even higher paid jobs having done naff all of any use here- err the Tories- Janio's party under the ever scary Mary Mears Rearrangethedeckchairs
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Lewesroadresident says...

Oh dear. Tony Janio; “It’s not the way to run a business, which is what the council is'.

Councils are not businesses. There are a few clues, not least the fact that much of what they do is a statutory function (legally obliged to provide certain services), and they have tax raising powers. Good to see the calibre of our elected representatives on display.
Oh dear. Tony Janio; “It’s not the way to run a business, which is what the council is'. Councils are not businesses. There are a few clues, not least the fact that much of what they do is a statutory function (legally obliged to provide certain services), and they have tax raising powers. Good to see the calibre of our elected representatives on display. Lewesroadresident
  • Score: 0

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