Greens announce general election candidates for Hove and Brighton Kemptown (From The Argus)

Oh dear neither of them seem to have a proper job, what we need is someone who is a local tradesperson who is respected by the local community

No More Greens, anyone but the Greens

Davy Jones, a nationally recognised expert on citizen participation

A skill that has never been used here in Brighton & Hove..............

Wasn't Hawtree a member of the Carry-on team? What a laugh. And I thought Davy Jones (the Monkee) was dead.
Ha ha ha

Thank you but no thank you. You won't be getting my vote!

An national expert in citizen participation? Great - so my question to Mr Jones is:-

What about the views of the 1770 people who didn't want more trees felled and permanent fencing in Wild Park?

Why have they been totally ignored by your party, while only 30-odd people supported further clearance, including Cllr Pete West, and so it's going ahead? Perhaps you could explain this please, in the context of citizen participation?

The overwhelming view is clearly that fencing of a public park for sheep grazing etc. should cease.

It seems that not every citizen's participation is considered equally by the Greens.Just the views of those who agree with the Green policy. How do you account for this?

There's plenty of other examples from around the city that could be used to exemplify this apparent dichotomy, eg the Lewes Road survey.

Davy Jones, a nationally recognised expert on citizen participation - is that the same as self proclaimed?

fredflintstone1 wrote:
An national expert in citizen participation? Great - so my question to Mr Jones is:-

What about the views of the 1770 people who didn't want more trees felled and permanent fencing in Wild Park?

Why have they been totally ignored by your party, while only 30-odd people supported further clearance, including Cllr Pete West, and so it's going ahead? Perhaps you could explain this please, in the context of citizen participation?

The overwhelming view is clearly that fencing of a public park for sheep grazing etc. should cease.

It seems that not every citizen's participation is considered equally by the Greens.Just the views of those who agree with the Green policy. How do you account for this?

There's plenty of other examples from around the city that could be used to exemplify this apparent dichotomy, eg the Lewes Road survey.

I suppose it works if you reckon that citizen participation = people consulted and ignored. It certainly has nowt to do with empowering the local citizenry, to encourage them to feel they are listened to and heard.

george smith wrote:
Oh dear neither of them seem to have a proper job, what we need is someone who is a local tradesperson who is respected by the local community

That is a bit much to hope for. I suspect the Greens select their candidates from former closed down Eastern European zoos judging by their performance in office. Anyway does it matter? Does anyone seriously think the Greens have got a cat in hells chance of getting in again in Brighton now people have had a taste of what not voting or voting Green actually means.

Kate234 wrote:

george smith wrote:
Oh dear neither of them seem to have a proper job, what we need is someone who is a local tradesperson who is respected by the local community

That is a bit much to hope for. I suspect the Greens select their candidates from former closed down Eastern European zoos judging by their performance in office. Anyway does it matter? Does anyone seriously think the Greens have got a cat in hells chance of getting in again in Brighton now people have had a taste of what not voting or voting Green actually means.

I wish I shared your confidence. Unfortunately, there will be a whole new generation of students for them to target by then.

Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

How is playing crazy golf qualification for anything other than a pleasant Sunday afternoon?!

The Greens are completely discredited by their ruinous ideas and driving businesses out of Brighton.

This is the Christopher Hawtree who spent years campaigning for improvements to libraries then got into power and shut the mobile library service.
He should stand for the Tory Party.

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

It is indeed. The very same Cllr Hawtree who can barely string a sentence together that anyone can understand and that quotes books that nobody has ever read. Before anyone seriously considers voting for him I suggest you watch some of the council meeting webcasts that he's spoken in ..... totally unelectable.

Consultation

Dictionary definition ;-

A conference for discussion or the seeking of advice.

Green definition :-

Screw you we'll do what we want

Participation :-

Dictionary definition :-

The act of taking part or sharing in something.

Green definition ;-

Screw you we'll do what we want

Simon Burgess is being selected for Labour in Hove..good job Hawtree is there to split the left-wing vote

More 'larking about' from Comrade Hawtree. Veteran of campaigns to save libraries who then closes them down. Trustworthy?

fredflintstone1 wrote:
An national expert in citizen participation? Great - so my question to Mr Jones is:-

What about the views of the 1770 people who didn't want more trees felled and permanent fencing in Wild Park?

Why have they been totally ignored by your party, while only 30-odd people supported further clearance, including Cllr Pete West, and so it's going ahead? Perhaps you could explain this please, in the context of citizen participation?

The overwhelming view is clearly that fencing of a public park for sheep grazing etc. should cease.

It seems that not every citizen's participation is considered equally by the Greens.Just the views of those who agree with the Green policy. How do you account for this?

There's plenty of other examples from around the city that could be used to exemplify this apparent dichotomy, eg the Lewes Road survey.

Another example of course is The Level - of which over 3 000 locals signed a petition against moving the skate park onto the open green. Most of those who signed do in fact support 'green policy' - as in supporting that bit of the manifesto which is all about protecting and preserving our open public green spaces.

Charles Hawtree was one of the 6 Green planning officers who enthusiastically voted to allow planning permission for said skate park.

Meanwhile, the public were repeatedly assured that the new concrete skate bowl would all be below ground level (thus not impeding views ha ha.) However, it now appears the new sunken skate bowl will have concrete ramps extending 2 ft above ground level...

After questioning a couple of the workmen I was assured that the planning officers were aware that the skate bowl wouldn't be entirely sunken after all - even if the public weren't made aware of this fact.

So there you go, another green joke!

Well thats two peolpe that will not get elected! Completly now out of touch with what the votes of Brighton and Hove really want.

The Greens will NEVER see my vote again, they asked for a chance because they said they were different and once in power they were different, I just didn't expect them to go totally the other way.

2 conservatives replacing 2 conservatives.

Just google "Hawtree sockets"

“I’m thrilled to stand for Parliament in Brighton Kemptown, having grown up in Saltdean as a teenager, attending the local youth club, playing pitch and putt and, as a student, teaching English to Italian students in Saltdean Lido.”

Perfectly qualified to be an MP then?

Is there any way we can get these people sectioned?

Basically, I have had no connection with Brighton since I was a teenager, when I attended a youth club in a different town and played games. What a lark! I'm not from London, you know.

Looking at Davy Jones' CV, it seems he has spent his entire career working in local government and the Audit Commission and is now a freelance consultant. Nice work if you can get it but I prefer my local councillor to have knowledge of the business world.

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Basically, I have had no connection with Brighton since I was a teenager, when I attended a youth club in a different town and played games. What a lark! I'm not from London, you know.

Looking at Davy Jones' CV, it seems he has spent his entire career working in local government and the Audit Commission and is now a freelance consultant. Nice work if you can get it but I prefer my local councillor to have knowledge of the business world.

Very true. I see that Davy Jones still hasn't answered my question from yesterday about why not every citizen's contribution is as highly valued by the Greens - ie, if you disagree with them, your view doesn't count. So much for Green democracy.

Is it true that Hawtree was officially banned from the council's public meetings for being disruptive during the late 1990's?

Valerie Paynter will know the answer to the above. Come in Valerie where are you?

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

Silly comment. If you want to know the truth, one Richard Scott was very diligent in looking into making Hove Library DDA compliant and lobbied officers with the obvious point that the circling stairwell area was possibly even designed to take a lift which would make the place DDA compliant.

He also pointed out to me that the BME people were looking for a base that would get them £1 grant from Govt. (their Annual Statement contained details at the time). I promptly emailed the Policy & Resources Committee with a comment about this and the item on their Agenda a few days on was withdrawn immediately. It bought us time.

Hawtree gathered petition signatures outside the Library with a couple of other men and then swanned about getting Adam Trimingham to put things in the paper about HIS campaign as though he was all there was. The big I am quite rightly did his bit and deserves some of the credit for keeping it in the public eye.

It is now fully compliant and wheelchair users have access to all floors using the lift that went.....up through the stairwell that Richard Scott worked so hard to get the council to buy into. He also provided a lot of facts and figures to Hawtree....not that CH would ever dream of crediting him for it I'd wager.

Fight_Back wrote:

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

It is indeed. The very same Cllr Hawtree who can barely string a sentence together that anyone can understand and that quotes books that nobody has ever read. Before anyone seriously considers voting for him I suggest you watch some of the council meeting webcasts that he's spoken in ..... totally unelectable.

Unelectable? He got the highest vote count in Central Ward and BECAME A COUNCILLOR !!! I am at a total loss to understand why this happened except that maybe he concentrated on the people who signed his library petition and traded on the bogus idea he single handedly Saved Hove Library.

Plus people were ready to give the Greens a go.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
Valerie Paynter will know the answer to the above. Come in Valerie where are you?

OK Max, here it is (I got a phone call about your summons, so here I am).

I doubt that Mr. Hawtree was active enough in the late 1990's to have been going to council meetings to get banned.

I did hear something like this claim too not long ago which would suggest he may either have got a warning or got a ban....possibly during the previous Conservative Administration....bu
t I cannot confirm that this is true, only that I have heard the same rumour.

He should not be a Councillor and definitely should not have been selected by the Greens to stand for election as an MP. That he was tells me just how much difficulty the Greens find themselves to be in.

They owe him...he delivers their paperwork up and down every street for them...works hard for the party.

Prone to bizarre outbursts. Ask them in the Neptune Pub what they think of him.....!

Thanks Valerie. To other posters, Valerie is one of those vital members of the public who keeps their eyes on the council which is particularly important now local newspaper reporters tend not to attend the chamber or read minutes.
I too am astonished at some of the individuals who were elected knowing some of their history but sadly people vote for rosette colours and don't check their candidate and the Greens were a change from the two main parties.
A quick trawl of You Tube and the web will stop many being re elected and that goes for all parties.
Check your candidate's history before blindly voting.

Valerie Paynter wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

It is indeed. The very same Cllr Hawtree who can barely string a sentence together that anyone can understand and that quotes books that nobody has ever read. Before anyone seriously considers voting for him I suggest you watch some of the council meeting webcasts that he's spoken in ..... totally unelectable.

Unelectable? He got the highest vote count in Central Ward and BECAME A COUNCILLOR !!! I am at a total loss to understand why this happened except that maybe he concentrated on the people who signed his library petition and traded on the bogus idea he single handedly Saved Hove Library.

Plus people were ready to give the Greens a go.

OK, I should have preceded my "unelectable" with "now".

The Greens got in on the "I want a change" vote - people have now seen what that change really means.

Cllr Hawtree's performances in the chamber are comical but also worrying if that's the quality of local councillor we now have ( and heaven forbid an MP ! ).

I'd struggle to select my favourite but it has to be between last years budget meeting or the meeting approving the Albions extension plans.

Fight_Back wrote:

Valerie Paynter wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

It is indeed. The very same Cllr Hawtree who can barely string a sentence together that anyone can understand and that quotes books that nobody has ever read. Before anyone seriously considers voting for him I suggest you watch some of the council meeting webcasts that he's spoken in ..... totally unelectable.

Unelectable? He got the highest vote count in Central Ward and BECAME A COUNCILLOR !!! I am at a total loss to understand why this happened except that maybe he concentrated on the people who signed his library petition and traded on the bogus idea he single handedly Saved Hove Library.

Plus people were ready to give the Greens a go.

OK, I should have preceded my "unelectable" with "now".

The Greens got in on the "I want a change" vote - people have now seen what that change really means.

Cllr Hawtree's performances in the chamber are comical but also worrying if that's the quality of local councillor we now have ( and heaven forbid an MP ! ).

I'd struggle to select my favourite but it has to be between last years budget meeting or the meeting approving the Albions extension plans.

Hello Fight_Back.

If you have not seen it, you might care to look on archived Webcam footage of my public question 31st October 2012.

On arrival, the administrator informed me I would have to leave the chamber after I asked the question. The security guard was posted at the rear to ensure I did leave.

Hawtree behaved so badly that saveHOVE supporters watching on the webcam were emailing by 2:15pm in shock at how their councillor behaved. Incensed I'd say.

It is an exchange that belongs on You Tube. There were 60 empty chairs behind me in that chamber. Hawtree banishes all but the speakers to the upper public gallery, regardless of disability issues or the fact that sometimes developers (yup they are up there too now) or officers have to be brought down specially to answer questions!

Lord Haughty appears to relish (a favourite word of his) his embrace of authoritarian excesses and authoritarian posturing to an unhealthy degree.

Fight_Back wrote:

Valerie Paynter wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

Roundbill wrote:
Is this the same Christopher Hawtree who led the protests against making Hove Library accessible for wheelchairs?

It is indeed. The very same Cllr Hawtree who can barely string a sentence together that anyone can understand and that quotes books that nobody has ever read. Before anyone seriously considers voting for him I suggest you watch some of the council meeting webcasts that he's spoken in ..... totally unelectable.

Unelectable? He got the highest vote count in Central Ward and BECAME A COUNCILLOR !!! I am at a total loss to understand why this happened except that maybe he concentrated on the people who signed his library petition and traded on the bogus idea he single handedly Saved Hove Library.

Plus people were ready to give the Greens a go.

OK, I should have preceded my "unelectable" with "now".

The Greens got in on the "I want a change" vote - people have now seen what that change really means.

Cllr Hawtree's performances in the chamber are comical but also worrying if that's the quality of local councillor we now have ( and heaven forbid an MP ! ).

I'd struggle to select my favourite but it has to be between last years budget meeting or the meeting approving the Albions extension plans.

Hello Fight_Back.

If you have not seen it, you might care to look on archived Webcam footage of my public question 31st October 2012.

On arrival, the administrator informed me I would have to leave the chamber after I asked the question. The security guard was posted at the rear to ensure I did leave.

Hawtree behaved so badly that saveHOVE supporters watching on the webcam were emailing by 2:15pm in shock at how their councillor behaved. Incensed I'd say.

It is an exchange that belongs on You Tube. There were 60 empty chairs behind me in that chamber. Hawtree banishes all but the speakers to the upper public gallery, regardless of disability issues or the fact that sometimes developers (yup they are up there too now) or officers have to be brought down specially to answer questions!

Lord Haughty appears to relish (a favourite word of his) his embrace of authoritarian excesses and authoritarian posturing to an unhealthy degree.

Well let's make sure this information gets a wider audience at election time.
It's time we had MPs and councillors with integrity, intelligence and humanity.
If you crap on people on the way up......

I think someone maybe 'paying hawthorn a visit' very soon. despicable person