New Rottingdean toilets go ‘gender neutral’

Unisex toilets are to be rebranded as gender neutral by “politically correct” council chiefs.

A £140,000 refurbishment of the facilities in Rottingdean seafront started this week.

But emails seen by The Argus indicate bosses “wish to promote the term gender neutral” when discussing the block that will be open to everyone regardless of their sex.

Supporters claim it will make it more accessible for those who do not identify with the male-female binary.

But ward councillor Lynda Hyde said: “This does seem to be a case of unnecessary bureaucracy and political correctness.

“If the male/female symbols, rather than any text, are to be used on the toilet then this avoids any confusion so why is the council muddying the waters by insisting they are called gender neutral, which will mean nothing to most people?

“The parish council, which is part funding this toilet, actually wanted to have separate male and female toilets, which would also have been my preference and, I suspect, the preference of most local residents.

“However, the city council in their wisdom, decided otherwise.”

Four toilets

Rottingdean Parish Council is contributing 60% (£84,000) of the total construction costs.

The rest, along with £16,100 additional fees and design charges, will be paid for by Brighton and Hove City Council.

The block, which will include four new toilets open every day of the year, will also include a café.

Work is due to be completed in 12 weeks.

Parish councillor Frank Considine said a sign will shortly be placed on the fencing around the site describing the toilets as gender neutral.

Standard image

An image of a male, female and child will also be fitted to the doors when complete.

It comes after the local authority carried out a scrutiny into making it fairer for trans people to live, work and socialise in Brighton and Hove.

The local authority provided no comment when asked about the use of ‘gender neutral’ rather than ‘unisex’.

Instead, a council spokeswoman said: “When producing signs for public toilets in the city we use standard images rather than words.

“This is particularly beneficial to the many tourists from overseas visiting our city.”

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Comments (37)

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5:51pm Thu 14 Feb 13

george smith says...

Isn't this rather like mixed hospital wards which were very unpopular as abandoned as an idea. They must have some DNA sex very few people are born both as male and female, although occasional this does happen. If we are talking mental health issues, lots of people have different mealth issues but these are not accomodated
Isn't this rather like mixed hospital wards which were very unpopular as abandoned as an idea. They must have some DNA sex very few people are born both as male and female, although occasional this does happen. If we are talking mental health issues, lots of people have different mealth issues but these are not accomodated george smith

5:54pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

Whilst I do most strongly "identify with the male-female binary" (a great expression up there the very best jargon) and I really don't have a problem with this. 'Gender Neutral' is just the new term for 'unisex' regardless of how it's spun. People that was quite beyond the pale back in the 1970s but it's pretty passe now.
Whilst I do most strongly "identify with the male-female binary" (a great expression up there the very best jargon) and I really don't have a problem with this. 'Gender Neutral' is just the new term for 'unisex' regardless of how it's spun. People that was quite beyond the pale back in the 1970s but it's pretty passe now. Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit

5:56pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

Jeez, apologies for the above. The 'and' after 'jargon' shouldn't be there, and there should be a 'thought' after 'people'.
Jeez, apologies for the above. The 'and' after 'jargon' shouldn't be there, and there should be a 'thought' after 'people'. Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit

6:21pm Thu 14 Feb 13

fredflintstone1 says...

So at 1 hermaphrodite birth per 100,000 people, there are statistically 3 genuine transgender people in the whole city. Let's hope they don't all turn up at Rottingean at once.

Interesting the Greens don't even listen to what the Parish Council wants,even though Rottingdean is paying 60% of the cost. Hardly surprising therefore that they never take any notice whatsoever of the views of ordinary local people.

Democracy / public service is a completely alien concept to this sad group of individuals whose sole purpose now seems to be trashing the city before they're turfed out.

The Greens would be better off asking why should young girls or even women be expected to go into a toilet alongside a group of men? What about their rights?
So at 1 hermaphrodite birth per 100,000 people, there are statistically 3 genuine transgender people in the whole city. Let's hope they don't all turn up at Rottingean at once. Interesting the Greens don't even listen to what the Parish Council wants,even though Rottingdean is paying 60% of the cost. Hardly surprising therefore that they never take any notice whatsoever of the views of ordinary local people. Democracy / public service is a completely alien concept to this sad group of individuals whose sole purpose now seems to be trashing the city before they're turfed out. The Greens would be better off asking why should young girls or even women be expected to go into a toilet alongside a group of men? What about their rights? fredflintstone1

6:26pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Tom V says...

I don't want to go into a toilet block at the same time as women or girls and I know many people will feel the same. This is an unsafe situation for women.

In the interests of being PC, women's safety is being compromised.
I don't want to go into a toilet block at the same time as women or girls and I know many people will feel the same. This is an unsafe situation for women. In the interests of being PC, women's safety is being compromised. Tom V

6:28pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Music Lover says...

Just another Brighton taxpayer funded seafront knocking shop to join the rest!
Just another Brighton taxpayer funded seafront knocking shop to join the rest! Music Lover

6:30pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Athena says...

Women do not want to be confronted with male urinals when they go to public toilets. And men don't want to be confronted with tampax machines or squalling, piddling infants when they go into ladies' loos. There are age-old reasons for separate loos. If the transgender brigade don't know which loo to go in, then they should be allowed in the one for which they are dressed.
Women do not want to be confronted with male urinals when they go to public toilets. And men don't want to be confronted with tampax machines or squalling, piddling infants when they go into ladies' loos. There are age-old reasons for separate loos. If the transgender brigade don't know which loo to go in, then they should be allowed in the one for which they are dressed. Athena

6:30pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Bob_The_Ferret says...

It's just the ongoing imposition of Newspeak by those on the local authority who want to further their own subversive agenda.

We've seen it before, with public toilets being re-labelled Men & Women rather than the conventional terms Ladies & Gentlemen, which benefits no-one, and in fact disadvantages non English speakers who may have little more than their guide books to follow.

There is nothing wrong with unisex toilets, if built to the appropriate standards, and they should be labelled with the internationally recognised pictograms. If you are going to use words as well, branding them as gender neutral, unisex or otherwise is completely pointless - let's just use the known and accepted terms 'Toilet' or 'W.C.'
It's just the ongoing imposition of Newspeak by those on the local authority who want to further their own subversive agenda. We've seen it before, with public toilets being re-labelled Men & Women rather than the conventional terms Ladies & Gentlemen, which benefits no-one, and in fact disadvantages non English speakers who may have little more than their guide books to follow. There is nothing wrong with unisex toilets, if built to the appropriate standards, and they should be labelled with the internationally recognised pictograms. If you are going to use words as well, branding them as gender neutral, unisex or otherwise is completely pointless - let's just use the known and accepted terms 'Toilet' or 'W.C.' Bob_The_Ferret

6:39pm Thu 14 Feb 13

fredflintstone1 says...

Tom V wrote:
I don't want to go into a toilet block at the same time as women or girls and I know many people will feel the same. This is an unsafe situation for women.

In the interests of being PC, women's safety is being compromised.
Yep, couldn't agree more. But the Greens aren't at all interested in women's rights or the feelings of the broader community.That's very passe for them.

But then when you've got Councillor Duncan joking about rape, that it says it all really, doesn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Tom V[/bold] wrote: I don't want to go into a toilet block at the same time as women or girls and I know many people will feel the same. This is an unsafe situation for women. In the interests of being PC, women's safety is being compromised.[/p][/quote]Yep, couldn't agree more. But the Greens aren't at all interested in women's rights or the feelings of the broader community.That's very passe for them. But then when you've got Councillor Duncan joking about rape, that it says it all really, doesn't it? fredflintstone1

6:39pm Thu 14 Feb 13

006 and a third says...

Won't this make it easier for perverts to expose themselves to women and children and use these ridiculous arrangements as an excuse?
Those responsible for decisions that allow indecent exposure to happen more easily should also be prosecuted for whatever crime they're helping to facilitate?
Won't this make it easier for perverts to expose themselves to women and children and use these ridiculous arrangements as an excuse? Those responsible for decisions that allow indecent exposure to happen more easily should also be prosecuted for whatever crime they're helping to facilitate? 006 and a third

6:54pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Joshiman says...

Is this an April fools joke?.Its only February.Someone so politically incompetent has come up with a ludicrous plan.Its disgusting!!!!!!!!!!
!!!
Is this an April fools joke?.Its only February.Someone so politically incompetent has come up with a ludicrous plan.Its disgusting!!!!!!!!!! !!! Joshiman

8:49pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Idontbelieveit1948 says...

Joshiman wrote:
Is this an April fools joke?.Its only February.Someone so politically incompetent has come up with a ludicrous plan.Its disgusting!!!!!!!!!!

!!!
It's the Greens what do you expect ?
[quote][p][bold]Joshiman[/bold] wrote: Is this an April fools joke?.Its only February.Someone so politically incompetent has come up with a ludicrous plan.Its disgusting!!!!!!!!!! !!![/p][/quote]It's the Greens what do you expect ? Idontbelieveit1948

10:22pm Thu 14 Feb 13

thommy says...

It does all become very tiring, when you think that public servants are actually taking vast sums of money from the public purse to compile this garbage. What is "male-female Binary"? - it is Orwellian drivel.
It is now a clear fact that the marxist greens are all mentally ill, but do the council officers have to confirm that they are equally unwell. You could not make it up.
It does all become very tiring, when you think that public servants are actually taking vast sums of money from the public purse to compile this garbage. What is "male-female Binary"? - it is Orwellian drivel. It is now a clear fact that the marxist greens are all mentally ill, but do the council officers have to confirm that they are equally unwell. You could not make it up. thommy

7:59am Fri 15 Feb 13

pitb says...

'The block, which will include four new toilets open every day of the year, will also include a café'.
The mind boggles - is this a purely sit down service?
'The block, which will include four new toilets open every day of the year, will also include a café'. The mind boggles - is this a purely sit down service? pitb

9:56am Fri 15 Feb 13

inadaptado says...

Yes, please, keep calling the Greens "lunatics" and making pointless comments on a conservative-biased newspaper, or sign more petitions asking the other parties to commit political suicide by ousting a legally elected council. That is undoubtedly more effective that actual lobbying or, god forbid, protesting.

Want to know the reason why the Greens were elected? You are.
Yes, please, keep calling the Greens "lunatics" and making pointless comments on a conservative-biased newspaper, or sign more petitions asking the other parties to commit political suicide by ousting a legally elected council. That is undoubtedly more effective that actual lobbying or, god forbid, protesting. Want to know the reason why the Greens were elected? You are. inadaptado

10:09am Fri 15 Feb 13

Kiddon72 says...

Does this mean we will now get dirty old women hanging around them instead of just dirty old men ?
Does this mean we will now get dirty old women hanging around them instead of just dirty old men ? Kiddon72

10:56am Fri 15 Feb 13

whereisthe...? says...

Oh my word. Get this council out NOW!! Total stupidity, even gives the LEFT a terrible name,and IM a left winger saying this!!

terrible waste of public money/ patience/ goodwill.
Oh my word. Get this council out NOW!! Total stupidity, even gives the LEFT a terrible name,and IM a left winger saying this!! terrible waste of public money/ patience/ goodwill. whereisthe...?

11:36am Fri 15 Feb 13

RickH says...

And, of course, we all live in houses and flats that have seperate toilets for male and female inhabitants.........
And, of course, we all live in houses and flats that have seperate toilets for male and female inhabitants......... RickH

11:45am Fri 15 Feb 13

Fairfax Sakes says...

Another bog-standard story from the Arus....
Another bog-standard story from the Arus.... Fairfax Sakes

2:39pm Fri 15 Feb 13

lillylou says...

Not only is this a disgusting thing to do for obvious reasons eg rape , exposure, hygiene, dignity but where the hell does £140,000 come in to it buy a propety for that you thick pox council !!!
Not only is this a disgusting thing to do for obvious reasons eg rape , exposure, hygiene, dignity but where the hell does £140,000 come in to it buy a propety for that you thick pox council !!! lillylou

2:40pm Fri 15 Feb 13

lillylou says...

Peeping tom perverts
Peeping tom perverts lillylou

4:09pm Fri 15 Feb 13

whereisthe...? says...

Funny, cos had plenty of my female friends tell me how disgusting female toilets are.


I mention to balance your sexist view of men, that Im sure creates a lovely atmosphere for your daughter to grow up in..
Funny, cos had plenty of my female friends tell me how disgusting female toilets are. I mention to balance your sexist view of men, that Im sure creates a lovely atmosphere for your daughter to grow up in.. whereisthe...?

4:11pm Fri 15 Feb 13

holly1977 says...

cant they nominate each toilet door, so 2 for men, and 2 for women? if wash hand basins need to be shared, that is better than what the current plan seems to be. Personally, I dont want to have to share public toilets with blokes at all! This has nothing to do with gender equality, and the comment by Athena is a good idea! Please BHCC listen to your residents/tax payers!! for once!!
cant they nominate each toilet door, so 2 for men, and 2 for women? if wash hand basins need to be shared, that is better than what the current plan seems to be. Personally, I dont want to have to share public toilets with blokes at all! This has nothing to do with gender equality, and the comment by Athena is a good idea! Please BHCC listen to your residents/tax payers!! for once!! holly1977

4:24pm Fri 15 Feb 13

We're up here says...

whereisthe...? wrote:
Funny, cos had plenty of my female friends tell me how disgusting female toilets are.


I mention to balance your sexist view of men, that Im sure creates a lovely atmosphere for your daughter to grow up in..
Oh go and soak your head.
[quote][p][bold]whereisthe...?[/bold] wrote: Funny, cos had plenty of my female friends tell me how disgusting female toilets are. I mention to balance your sexist view of men, that Im sure creates a lovely atmosphere for your daughter to grow up in..[/p][/quote]Oh go and soak your head. We're up here

5:23pm Fri 15 Feb 13

fredflintstone1 says...

lillylou wrote:
Not only is this a disgusting thing to do for obvious reasons eg rape , exposure, hygiene, dignity but where the hell does £140,000 come in to it buy a propety for that you thick pox council !!!
Rottingdean Parish Council are pretty miffed because Brighton & Hove Council let the existing toilet block get so rundown that it had to be replaced.

As if that wasn't bad enough, the Greens are now forcing their stupid gender ideas on Rottingdean which is meeting 60% of the cost of this building project anyway.
[quote][p][bold]lillylou[/bold] wrote: Not only is this a disgusting thing to do for obvious reasons eg rape , exposure, hygiene, dignity but where the hell does £140,000 come in to it buy a propety for that you thick pox council !!![/p][/quote]Rottingdean Parish Council are pretty miffed because Brighton & Hove Council let the existing toilet block get so rundown that it had to be replaced. As if that wasn't bad enough, the Greens are now forcing their stupid gender ideas on Rottingdean which is meeting 60% of the cost of this building project anyway. fredflintstone1

6:44pm Fri 15 Feb 13

tradebooker says...

Nice! Greens had there way again votethegreensout.com
Nice! Greens had there way again votethegreensout.com tradebooker

8:47am Sat 16 Feb 13

Telscombe Cliffy says...

Calm down dears, I think you will find that all four cubicle doors will open to the outside, as a row of portable toilets would appear. As for the naming , by this logic does 'disabled toilet' mean one that is broken?
Calm down dears, I think you will find that all four cubicle doors will open to the outside, as a row of portable toilets would appear. As for the naming , by this logic does 'disabled toilet' mean one that is broken? Telscombe Cliffy

9:05am Sat 16 Feb 13

mimseycal says...

Silly idea and a pure vanity project.

Noticed that commentary on this article has brought out some of our more narrow minded vitriol for the sake of vitriol spouting commentators though so at least it is doing its bit by letting them release some of the bile that must have been building up.
Silly idea and a pure vanity project. Noticed that commentary on this article has brought out some of our more narrow minded vitriol for the sake of vitriol spouting commentators though so at least it is doing its bit by letting them release some of the bile that must have been building up. mimseycal

11:59am Mon 18 Feb 13

Jennie Kermode says...

As a disabled person, I use gender neutral toilets all the time. It amazes me that other people find it so difficult.
As a disabled person, I use gender neutral toilets all the time. It amazes me that other people find it so difficult. Jennie Kermode

12:12pm Mon 18 Feb 13

mimseycal says...

Apart from urinals most lavatories are gender neutral in that their usage is not limited to a single sex. However the uproar isn't about the usage so much as the fact that most people are used to gender segregation as well as personal privacy when it comes to evacuating personal physical waste.
Apart from urinals most lavatories are gender neutral in that their usage is not limited to a single sex. However the uproar isn't about the usage so much as the fact that most people are used to gender segregation as well as personal privacy when it comes to evacuating personal physical waste. mimseycal

3:26am Tue 19 Feb 13

Bayne MacGregor says...

fredflintstone1 wrote:
So at 1 hermaphrodite birth per 100,000 people, there are statistically 3 genuine transgender people in the whole city. Let's hope they don't all turn up at Rottingean at once.

Interesting the Greens don't even listen to what the Parish Council wants,even though Rottingdean is paying 60% of the cost. Hardly surprising therefore that they never take any notice whatsoever of the views of ordinary local people.

Democracy / public service is a completely alien concept to this sad group of individuals whose sole purpose now seems to be trashing the city before they're turfed out.

The Greens would be better off asking why should young girls or even women be expected to go into a toilet alongside a group of men? What about their rights?
Your stats are woefully wrong. Intersex is 4% of live births (according to Dr Peter Koopman, University of Queensland Australia) and studies of Transgender people show that the numbers are actually between 6% and 10% of the population. That is a lot of people. Single-sex toilets aren't safe, single-sex assault and sexual assault happens, yes even in womens bathrooms, but Trans people are far more often victims than perpetrators (by lots). Want genuinely safe toilets? Make them one-user-at-a-time. Then it's safe, safe for everyone. And being unisex won't matter at all would it.
[quote][p][bold]fredflintstone1[/bold] wrote: So at 1 hermaphrodite birth per 100,000 people, there are statistically 3 genuine transgender people in the whole city. Let's hope they don't all turn up at Rottingean at once. Interesting the Greens don't even listen to what the Parish Council wants,even though Rottingdean is paying 60% of the cost. Hardly surprising therefore that they never take any notice whatsoever of the views of ordinary local people. Democracy / public service is a completely alien concept to this sad group of individuals whose sole purpose now seems to be trashing the city before they're turfed out. The Greens would be better off asking why should young girls or even women be expected to go into a toilet alongside a group of men? What about their rights?[/p][/quote]Your stats are woefully wrong. Intersex is 4% of live births (according to Dr Peter Koopman, University of Queensland Australia) and studies of Transgender people show that the numbers are actually between 6% and 10% of the population. That is a lot of people. Single-sex toilets aren't safe, single-sex assault and sexual assault happens, yes even in womens bathrooms, but Trans people are far more often victims than perpetrators (by lots). Want genuinely safe toilets? Make them one-user-at-a-time. Then it's safe, safe for everyone. And being unisex won't matter at all would it. Bayne MacGregor

9:35am Tue 19 Feb 13

John of Sydney says...

Bayne-McGregor, the Intersex Society of North America says that 1% of live births show some degree of sexual ambiguity. Between 0.1% and 0.2% of those are ambiguous enough to get specialist medical attention. The name, 'Intersex Society' says that these people should know what they're talking about.

You should apologise to fredflinstone1 for saying his figures were 'woefully wrong'. Even if the
4% transgender live births you quoted were right that clashes with the studies that you say show transgenders are really 6 - 10%. of the population. 4% can never be equal to 6% - let alone 10%.
Bayne-McGregor, the Intersex Society of North America says that 1% of live births show some degree of sexual ambiguity. Between 0.1% and 0.2% of those are ambiguous enough to get specialist medical attention. The name, 'Intersex Society' says that these people should know what they're talking about. You should apologise to fredflinstone1 for saying his figures were 'woefully wrong'. Even if the 4% transgender live births you quoted were right that clashes with the studies that you say show transgenders are really 6 - 10%. of the population. 4% can never be equal to 6% - let alone 10%. John of Sydney

9:55am Tue 19 Feb 13

Alison Smith says...

Men will start peeing in the sinks, as they aren't used to queuing ;)
Men will start peeing in the sinks, as they aren't used to queuing ;) Alison Smith

2:38pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Saffron says...

As Telscombe Cliffy has said...calm down. As I understand it there will be no question of men & women being in the same area ( unless they want to! ) because there will be 4 separate toilets. Rather than posing a greater safety threat it is believed they will be safer. But I believe it is true that the majority of Rottingdean residents would have preferred separate toilets for men and women.
The scandalous aspect of it all though is the fact the only way Rottingdean would obtain the toilets that are needed so desperately on the seafront is by having to contribute so much money. This despite the fact that it has been Brighton & Hove City Council who have done nothing to maintain the old toilets.
And the fact that the residents of Rottingdean in addition to paying an additional amount in Council Tax ( that is where funding is coming from ) pay the same amount as everyone else in the city. But have not received an appropriate level of investment and commitment.
As Telscombe Cliffy has said...calm down. As I understand it there will be no question of men & women being in the same area ( unless they want to! ) because there will be 4 separate toilets. Rather than posing a greater safety threat it is believed they will be safer. But I believe it is true that the majority of Rottingdean residents would have preferred separate toilets for men and women. The scandalous aspect of it all though is the fact the only way Rottingdean would obtain the toilets that are needed so desperately on the seafront is by having to contribute so much money. This despite the fact that it has been Brighton & Hove City Council who have done nothing to maintain the old toilets. And the fact that the residents of Rottingdean in addition to paying an additional amount in Council Tax ( that is where funding is coming from ) pay the same amount as everyone else in the city. But have not received an appropriate level of investment and commitment. Saffron

4:03pm Tue 19 Feb 13

NatFantastic says...

What's wrong with people? The toilets are already unisex, they're just being given a different name. Calm down.

What precisely do people think is going to happen in unisex toilets? Do people genuinely consider men to be so dangerous that they can't be near a peeing woman lest they attack her? Presumably the people condemning it here share bathrooms at home? May I ask how many times their husbands have leapt on them like flying squirrels at the merest hint of a tinkle?

And as for the commenter aghast that men may have to see Tampax machines or children, all I have to say is a) do you genuinely think men will have to get to a fainting couch if they're aware of menstruation? b) Not all women want or even like children, why should they have to put up with them but men don't? c) You are aware that men are parents too, yes?
What's wrong with people? The toilets are already unisex, they're just being given a different name. Calm down. What precisely do people think is going to happen in unisex toilets? Do people genuinely consider men to be so dangerous that they can't be near a peeing woman lest they attack her? Presumably the people condemning it here share bathrooms at home? May I ask how many times their husbands have leapt on them like flying squirrels at the merest hint of a tinkle? And as for the commenter aghast that men may have to see Tampax machines or children, all I have to say is a) do you genuinely think men will have to get to a fainting couch if they're aware of menstruation? b) Not all women want or even like children, why should they have to put up with them but men don't? c) You are aware that men are parents too, yes? NatFantastic

4:06pm Tue 19 Feb 13

NatFantastic says...

Really, if you take out the weird panic and HORROR that everyone pees in this story, what you're left with is 'council refurbishes public toilets'.
Really, if you take out the weird panic and HORROR that everyone pees in this story, what you're left with is 'council refurbishes public toilets'. NatFantastic

8:26pm Sat 23 Feb 13

Weirdorama says...

This is perhaps the Greens most bizarre idea.
Surely a mixed toilet is going to raise safety issues, particularly for women. Public toilets can be dodgy, and to have men and women in the same ones is going to raise the risk of attacks on women.
Also, exactly how many transgender people does Brighton actually have, the way the greens make out, they sound like a majority. But then again they are a bunch of lunatics.

Not wanting to sound sexist, but female friends and family members have all been against the idea.
Im always left stunned by the Greens latest idea, they've gone from ill informed to dangerous in a few years.

Still the transgender community and flasher community will be overjoyed at this development.
This is perhaps the Greens most bizarre idea. Surely a mixed toilet is going to raise safety issues, particularly for women. Public toilets can be dodgy, and to have men and women in the same ones is going to raise the risk of attacks on women. Also, exactly how many transgender people does Brighton actually have, the way the greens make out, they sound like a majority. But then again they are a bunch of lunatics. Not wanting to sound sexist, but female friends and family members have all been against the idea. Im always left stunned by the Greens latest idea, they've gone from ill informed to dangerous in a few years. Still the transgender community and flasher community will be overjoyed at this development. Weirdorama

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