Management coaching for Brighton and Hove City Council bosses costing thousands of pounds

Management coaching for council bosses costing thousands of pounds

Management coaching for council bosses costing thousands of pounds

First published in News

Taxpayers are stumping up thousands of pounds to pay for “management coaching” for council chiefs.

Despite Brighton and Hove City Council having to make more than £20 million savings in the next year, The Argus can reveal the local authority has hired a consultant to offer tips to its senior staff.

The local authority claims the investment would benefit services in the long run but union representatives blasted it as an “unnecessary luxury”.


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Mark Turner, of the GMB, said: “The days of these luxuries are gone.

“I’m all for the council nurturing its staff but if they are going to help then they should offer support across the board. I do not know what these coaches do. The only coach I know is one that looks after my football team every week.

“What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?”

A council spokeswoman refused to reveal how much the coaching had cost the local authority.

However, sources claim the sessions, which are charged on a daily rate, amount to about £1,200 a week.

It is not known how many members of staff receive the support although it is understood the offer extends to the upper tiers of management including department heads.

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Sources added the council’s chief executive Penny Thompson is among those to receiving the support.

Sue Moorman, the council’s head of human resources and organisational development, said: “Coaching is commonly used by senior managers and is an investment in their leadership capacity for the benefit of key services.

“The council faces significant challenges as we strive to modernise and be ever more responsive to citizens needs.”

But Conservative councillor Dee Simson said: “These senior members of staff have presumably been appointed to their positions, at least in part, because they are good managers.

“It therefore seems to be a bit odd, not to say extravagant, that so much money is being spent on coaching them, particularly at a time when finances are tight.

“This also comes hot on the heels of the revelation that the council is paying Ernst and Young £75,000 to advise them on how to save money.

“I would query whether this is all prudent use of council taxpayers money.”

A decision on the council’s budget plans for 2014/15 will be taken by all 54 councillors in February.

Comments (39)

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8:41am Fri 10 Jan 14

johnboy1 says...

"What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there.

One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching.

By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind)
"What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there. One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching. By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind) johnboy1
  • Score: -2

9:02am Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

If it helped them to manage getting our bins emptied then it may be worthwhile.

As it stands, a total and utter waste of money - with or without coaching this council simply isn't managing to serve the great majority of the residents who actually fund it.
If it helped them to manage getting our bins emptied then it may be worthwhile. As it stands, a total and utter waste of money - with or without coaching this council simply isn't managing to serve the great majority of the residents who actually fund it. Richada
  • Score: 9

9:05am Fri 10 Jan 14

HJarrs says...

johnboy1 wrote:
"What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there.

One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching.

By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind)
You make some good points. Coaching is best practice in the private sector to make managers and the organisation more effective and my company pays more than double £1200 a week for this type of work. Very few people are naturally good or effective managers that cannot gain from coaching, mentoring and training.

I do think that it suits some people to deride the public sector for trying to become more effective.
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: "What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there. One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching. By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind)[/p][/quote]You make some good points. Coaching is best practice in the private sector to make managers and the organisation more effective and my company pays more than double £1200 a week for this type of work. Very few people are naturally good or effective managers that cannot gain from coaching, mentoring and training. I do think that it suits some people to deride the public sector for trying to become more effective. HJarrs
  • Score: -7

9:05am Fri 10 Jan 14

The Prophet of Doom says...

Common sense, accountability and the ability to do the job you are paid for should not be characteristics you can "coach".

Instead BHCC prefer their de rigeuer methods of: selective vision and hearing, arrogance, blind faith in ineffectual methodology/processe
s and a resolute pig-headed refusal to serve the tax paying residents.
Common sense, accountability and the ability to do the job you are paid for should not be characteristics you can "coach". Instead BHCC prefer their de rigeuer methods of: selective vision and hearing, arrogance, blind faith in ineffectual methodology/processe s and a resolute pig-headed refusal to serve the tax paying residents. The Prophet of Doom
  • Score: 12

9:14am Fri 10 Jan 14

Morpheus says...

It might be better to coach them off somewhere else and get somebody with the necessary experience.
It might be better to coach them off somewhere else and get somebody with the necessary experience. Morpheus
  • Score: 11

9:34am Fri 10 Jan 14

Crystal Ball says...

No doubt many people would happily pay to have them put on a coach and carted away.

Indefinitely.
No doubt many people would happily pay to have them put on a coach and carted away. Indefinitely. Crystal Ball
  • Score: 11

9:39am Fri 10 Jan 14

Nobleox says...

Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when
you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site?
Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site? Nobleox
  • Score: 6

9:47am Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

Morpheus wrote:
It might be better to coach them off somewhere else and get somebody with the necessary experience.
Here here to that!

They are after all paying them a managers rate for the job, they should be employing properly trained managers in the first place.

I think the average bin man could do a better job of it than this lot.
[quote][p][bold]Morpheus[/bold] wrote: It might be better to coach them off somewhere else and get somebody with the necessary experience.[/p][/quote]Here here to that! They are after all paying them a managers rate for the job, they should be employing properly trained managers in the first place. I think the average bin man could do a better job of it than this lot. Richada
  • Score: 6

9:56am Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

Nobleox wrote:
Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when
you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site?
Yes indeed, the Argus site is indeed highly under-rated!
[quote][p][bold]Nobleox[/bold] wrote: Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site?[/p][/quote]Yes indeed, the Argus site is indeed highly under-rated! Richada
  • Score: 2

10:54am Fri 10 Jan 14

Valerie Paynter says...

It begs the obvious question: two actually.

1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified?
2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well?

Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo
It begs the obvious question: two actually. 1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified? 2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well? Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 5

11:15am Fri 10 Jan 14

The Prophet of Doom says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
It begs the obvious question: two actually.

1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified?
2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well?

Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo
The Public Sector appears to be a breeding ground for vacuous, autocratic, inexperienced, incapable and inefficient management who, after dismissal or resignation, somehow manage to secure a similar (and over-paid) position at a another public authority.

To say the gravy train has just pulled-in (for them) is an understatement.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: It begs the obvious question: two actually. 1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified? 2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well? Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo[/p][/quote]The Public Sector appears to be a breeding ground for vacuous, autocratic, inexperienced, incapable and inefficient management who, after dismissal or resignation, somehow manage to secure a similar (and over-paid) position at a another public authority. To say the gravy train has just pulled-in (for them) is an understatement. The Prophet of Doom
  • Score: 9

11:21am Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

The Prophet of Doom wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
It begs the obvious question: two actually.

1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified?
2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well?

Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo
The Public Sector appears to be a breeding ground for vacuous, autocratic, inexperienced, incapable and inefficient management who, after dismissal or resignation, somehow manage to secure a similar (and over-paid) position at a another public authority.

To say the gravy train has just pulled-in (for them) is an understatement.
That's why they're not emptying the bins!

Don't want their rotten gravy taken away.
[quote][p][bold]The Prophet of Doom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: It begs the obvious question: two actually. 1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified? 2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well? Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo[/p][/quote]The Public Sector appears to be a breeding ground for vacuous, autocratic, inexperienced, incapable and inefficient management who, after dismissal or resignation, somehow manage to secure a similar (and over-paid) position at a another public authority. To say the gravy train has just pulled-in (for them) is an understatement.[/p][/quote]That's why they're not emptying the bins! Don't want their rotten gravy taken away. Richada
  • Score: 1

12:26pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

HJarrs wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
"What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there.

One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching.

By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind)
You make some good points. Coaching is best practice in the private sector to make managers and the organisation more effective and my company pays more than double £1200 a week for this type of work. Very few people are naturally good or effective managers that cannot gain from coaching, mentoring and training.

I do think that it suits some people to deride the public sector for trying to become more effective.
Im afraid the only coaching that could help your party is the next coach to Barnsley! A pointless waste of money indeed, You cant even get the basics right, Like emptying bins for residents! Total joke
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: "What can they tell the managers that they do not already know?” - A fundamental misunderstanding of what coaching is there. One of the key problems with the public sector is that whenever they do something that appears mildly off-centre from the very narrow concept of the norm, they get slaughtered. Coaching is a widely accepted development tool to improve management effectiveness and style. Whilst value for money needs to be an important consideration, if we stifle the public sector so much that coaching is considered crazy then we will end up with an ineffective service. Look at some of the most effective private sector companies in the world and see what they are doing in terms of learning and development, creativity, problem solving and leadership development. Google for example have a 7 person conference bicycle for team building. Imagine that in the public sector? Yet a council using a method of development that has been around for decades is being questioned???? I'd be more surprised if a large public sector organisation didn't have coaches, given that in 2010 the CIPD found that 82% of organisations use coaching. By the way, I'm not a coach (of either the development or transport kind)[/p][/quote]You make some good points. Coaching is best practice in the private sector to make managers and the organisation more effective and my company pays more than double £1200 a week for this type of work. Very few people are naturally good or effective managers that cannot gain from coaching, mentoring and training. I do think that it suits some people to deride the public sector for trying to become more effective.[/p][/quote]Im afraid the only coaching that could help your party is the next coach to Barnsley! A pointless waste of money indeed, You cant even get the basics right, Like emptying bins for residents! Total joke Brighton1000
  • Score: 6

1:12pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Hovite says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
It begs the obvious question: two actually.

1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified?
2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well?

Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo
Unfortunately elected councils come and go, but the people who run and direct the council are secure in their jobs despite constant failure, whilst needing to contract in coaching, advisors and consultants for direction themselves.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: It begs the obvious question: two actually. 1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified? 2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well? Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo[/p][/quote]Unfortunately elected councils come and go, but the people who run and direct the council are secure in their jobs despite constant failure, whilst needing to contract in coaching, advisors and consultants for direction themselves. Hovite
  • Score: 0

1:21pm Fri 10 Jan 14

johnboy1 says...

Whilst your assertion that, because I believe a development tool used in 82% of organisations is normal, I am therefore a member of the Green Party is welcome, it is alas wide of the mark.

Making jokes about "getting on the coach and driving them as far away as possible" is extremely hilarious, however it does somewhat avoid the point. I'm not sure what world some of the people on here live in, but out here in the real one, all managers undergo development. You don't just employ a manager with all the skills and experience and that's it. It's not a choice between training someone up and bringing in a ready made manager who will never ever need any further development. You should be worried if it is. Even if they have all the skills and experience, you continue to invest in them and they continually develop themselves. The world changes, they need to adapt.

Views on leadership on here are outdated, by possibly 100 years or more. They are views that went out of fashion before Taylorism in 1911 and are probably more in line (ironically given the political leanings of Argus readers) with Communism. Get with the programme kids.
Whilst your assertion that, because I believe a development tool used in 82% of organisations is normal, I am therefore a member of the Green Party is welcome, it is alas wide of the mark. Making jokes about "getting on the coach and driving them as far away as possible" is extremely hilarious, however it does somewhat avoid the point. I'm not sure what world some of the people on here live in, but out here in the real one, all managers undergo development. You don't just employ a manager with all the skills and experience and that's it. It's not a choice between training someone up and bringing in a ready made manager who will never ever need any further development. You should be worried if it is. Even if they have all the skills and experience, you continue to invest in them and they continually develop themselves. The world changes, they need to adapt. Views on leadership on here are outdated, by possibly 100 years or more. They are views that went out of fashion before Taylorism in 1911 and are probably more in line (ironically given the political leanings of Argus readers) with Communism. Get with the programme kids. johnboy1
  • Score: 4

1:32pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

johnboy1 wrote:
Whilst your assertion that, because I believe a development tool used in 82% of organisations is normal, I am therefore a member of the Green Party is welcome, it is alas wide of the mark.

Making jokes about "getting on the coach and driving them as far away as possible" is extremely hilarious, however it does somewhat avoid the point. I'm not sure what world some of the people on here live in, but out here in the real one, all managers undergo development. You don't just employ a manager with all the skills and experience and that's it. It's not a choice between training someone up and bringing in a ready made manager who will never ever need any further development. You should be worried if it is. Even if they have all the skills and experience, you continue to invest in them and they continually develop themselves. The world changes, they need to adapt.

Views on leadership on here are outdated, by possibly 100 years or more. They are views that went out of fashion before Taylorism in 1911 and are probably more in line (ironically given the political leanings of Argus readers) with Communism. Get with the programme kids.
Now or 100 years ago - a leadership that couldn't / can't provide a service for those who pay them is a bad leadership.
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: Whilst your assertion that, because I believe a development tool used in 82% of organisations is normal, I am therefore a member of the Green Party is welcome, it is alas wide of the mark. Making jokes about "getting on the coach and driving them as far away as possible" is extremely hilarious, however it does somewhat avoid the point. I'm not sure what world some of the people on here live in, but out here in the real one, all managers undergo development. You don't just employ a manager with all the skills and experience and that's it. It's not a choice between training someone up and bringing in a ready made manager who will never ever need any further development. You should be worried if it is. Even if they have all the skills and experience, you continue to invest in them and they continually develop themselves. The world changes, they need to adapt. Views on leadership on here are outdated, by possibly 100 years or more. They are views that went out of fashion before Taylorism in 1911 and are probably more in line (ironically given the political leanings of Argus readers) with Communism. Get with the programme kids.[/p][/quote]Now or 100 years ago - a leadership that couldn't / can't provide a service for those who pay them is a bad leadership. Richada
  • Score: -2

1:41pm Fri 10 Jan 14

johnboy1 says...

So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better? johnboy1
  • Score: 2

2:24pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

johnboy1 wrote:
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place!

Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that!

Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably.

It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable.......

...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years.

We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can.

Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?[/p][/quote]Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place! Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that! Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably. It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable....... ...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years. We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can. Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here.......... Richada
  • Score: 2

2:50pm Fri 10 Jan 14

johnboy1 says...

But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing.

So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations?

One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.
But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing. So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations? One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching. johnboy1
  • Score: 0

3:18pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Hovite says...

johnboy1 wrote:
But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing.

So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations?

One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.
You cannot coach common sense.

Who advised the council that the i360 was viable?

Every member of the general public knew the figures didn't add up, yet the council employees thought it was a great plan.
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing. So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations? One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.[/p][/quote]You cannot coach common sense. Who advised the council that the i360 was viable? Every member of the general public knew the figures didn't add up, yet the council employees thought it was a great plan. Hovite
  • Score: -1

3:33pm Fri 10 Jan 14

brightonline says...

Think the Schmargus has got this wrong - it's going to be more like £1200 a DAY, rather than a week - that would be very cheap!
Think the Schmargus has got this wrong - it's going to be more like £1200 a DAY, rather than a week - that would be very cheap! brightonline
  • Score: 1

3:49pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

johnboy1 wrote:
But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing.

So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations?

One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.
Maybe I, as a voting, COUNCIL TAX PAYING resident of Brighton and Hove who has not had his bin emptied for over three weeks, can make that judgement.

The buck has to stop somewhere!

There seem to be dozens of people you want to share the blame here - including, disgracefully, the residents, the very people PAYING for a service that they are not getting!

I'm not asking for something for nothing here, I pay for council services, which since the reorganisation fiasco in October have not been reliably delivered.

If you are in some position of authority on the council, I suggest you get on with DOING something about the situation rather than listing more and more people amongst whom the buck can be passed and then calling in "coaches" to sort it all out..

Having lived in this city for over 50 years I do not feel; that a simple waste bin collection should be regarded as "unrtealistic" - until October of 2013 it was quite realistic.

No, coaching is not going to sort out the current chaotic mess regarding the refuse collections in the Brighton and Hove area - it is just another way of inappropriately spending hard working tax-payers money that should be spent on actually delivering a service.

ALL WE WANT IS OUR BINS EMPTIED!
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing. So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations? One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.[/p][/quote]Maybe I, as a voting, COUNCIL TAX PAYING resident of Brighton and Hove who has not had his bin emptied for over three weeks, can make that judgement. The buck has to stop somewhere! There seem to be dozens of people you want to share the blame here - including, disgracefully, the residents, the very people PAYING for a service that they are not getting! I'm not asking for something for nothing here, I pay for council services, which since the reorganisation fiasco in October have not been reliably delivered. If you are in some position of authority on the council, I suggest you get on with DOING something about the situation rather than listing more and more people amongst whom the buck can be passed and then calling in "coaches" to sort it all out.. Having lived in this city for over 50 years I do not feel; that a simple waste bin collection should be regarded as "unrtealistic" - until October of 2013 it was quite realistic. No, coaching is not going to sort out the current chaotic mess regarding the refuse collections in the Brighton and Hove area - it is just another way of inappropriately spending hard working tax-payers money that should be spent on actually delivering a service. ALL WE WANT IS OUR BINS EMPTIED! Richada
  • Score: 0

5:00pm Fri 10 Jan 14

realityprevails says...

johnboy1 wrote:
But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing.

So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations?

One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.
I've read these comments with increasing horror. So much so it's made me create a logon here. Does no one understand the enormity of what this council and all other councils are facing across the country? The huge amounts (millions and millions of pounds worth) of cuts that are being forced on local authorities by central government mean that they have got to seriously look at their services, how they provide them and more importantly IF they provide them in the future. It's that serious.

Probably no one in local government across the country is lucky enough to be skilled and resourced enough to deal with this. It's unprecedented. Of course they need coaching. As johnboy1 said you can't just sack everyone and get others in - the cost would be huge, far more than any coaching costs would cost. And even then they would need coaching, because no one knows how to deal with this hideous situation that whole country has found itself it in !

So please, if you're worried about your bins not being collected, just wait to see what might happen if the senior leadership of the council (and I mean officers not members) is not supported through this extraordinary time.
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: But who makes the judgement they are underperforming rather than there being a structural or process problem? Or a fundamental lack of money that is going to require huge sums of money to fix? What's the point in sacking a load of people and getting a load more in at huge expense, only for them to possibly find those same problems still exist - because it was never a problem with the management in the first place? Perhaps coaching would help the existing managers reflect on and identify structural problems, processes that don't work, staff below them who aren't performing etc and identify ways to solve them. This is a large organisation that is extremely complex. You don't necessary solve problems by sacking the people in charge and coaching is perfectly acceptable approach, whether the organistion is high performing or low performing. So someones bins aren't getting collected properly - who's to blame? The Chief Executive, Head of Waste, Deputy Head of Waste, binmen, the Waste Collection Strategy, sea-gulls, the bin lorries, lack of money, bureaucracy, the environment strategy, regulations, rules, the secretary, the residents, the bins, the admin team, unrealistic expectations? One of the ways to think about the root cause of a problem and find out is through coaching.[/p][/quote]I've read these comments with increasing horror. So much so it's made me create a logon here. Does no one understand the enormity of what this council and all other councils are facing across the country? The huge amounts (millions and millions of pounds worth) of cuts that are being forced on local authorities by central government mean that they have got to seriously look at their services, how they provide them and more importantly IF they provide them in the future. It's that serious. Probably no one in local government across the country is lucky enough to be skilled and resourced enough to deal with this. It's unprecedented. Of course they need coaching. As johnboy1 said you can't just sack everyone and get others in - the cost would be huge, far more than any coaching costs would cost. And even then they would need coaching, because no one knows how to deal with this hideous situation that whole country has found itself it in ! So please, if you're worried about your bins not being collected, just wait to see what might happen if the senior leadership of the council (and I mean officers not members) is not supported through this extraordinary time. realityprevails
  • Score: 3

5:36pm Fri 10 Jan 14

johnboy1 says...

Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue.

Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.
Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue. Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything. johnboy1
  • Score: 1

6:04pm Fri 10 Jan 14

realityprevails says...

johnboy1 wrote:
Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue.

Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.
I hope you meant me and that I've made a sensible point. Thank you!

Maybe all others that have an issue with the ideology expressed within will contact me.

I do have to confess that I work for the council, but at a low level. I am speaking here as resident of Brighton and Hove myself and the UK and the world! So there!
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue. Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.[/p][/quote]I hope you meant me and that I've made a sensible point. Thank you! Maybe all others that have an issue with the ideology expressed within will contact me. I do have to confess that I work for the council, but at a low level. I am speaking here as resident of Brighton and Hove myself and the UK and the world! So there! realityprevails
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

johnboy1 wrote:
Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue.

Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.
I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas.

I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned.

If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way.
[quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue. Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.[/p][/quote]I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas. I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned. If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way. Richada
  • Score: -1

7:16pm Fri 10 Jan 14

realityprevails says...

Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue.

Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.
I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas.

I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned.

If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way.
I DO live here and I'm saying that the cost of coaching might well be hugely important in terms of how councils will continue to actually exist. If all you can think about is getting your bin emptied, then you're in a sorry place.
[quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue. Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.[/p][/quote]I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas. I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned. If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way.[/p][/quote]I DO live here and I'm saying that the cost of coaching might well be hugely important in terms of how councils will continue to actually exist. If all you can think about is getting your bin emptied, then you're in a sorry place. realityprevails
  • Score: 0

7:57pm Fri 10 Jan 14

hovian says...

I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....
I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable.... hovian
  • Score: 2

9:12pm Fri 10 Jan 14

realityprevails says...

hovian wrote:
I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....
I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better?
[quote][p][bold]hovian[/bold] wrote: I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....[/p][/quote]I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better? realityprevails
  • Score: 0

9:12pm Fri 10 Jan 14

realityprevails says...

hovian wrote:
I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....
I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better?
[quote][p][bold]hovian[/bold] wrote: I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....[/p][/quote]I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better? realityprevails
  • Score: -1

10:10pm Fri 10 Jan 14

hovian says...

realityprevails wrote:
hovian wrote:
I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....
I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better?
Because these people are paid £120,000 plus and for that large sum they should be competent! Why should us taxpayers have to cough up more to get them up to scratch..... it's lousy value for money
[quote][p][bold]realityprevails[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hovian[/bold] wrote: I'm sorry but senior executives are paid a lot of money and ought to know how to organise and manage their staff.... that's an essential part of their job. The problem with this lot is the senior executives appear to have no idea how to run anything...there's no proper internal management, discipline or accountability for anything within the council and the councillors don't seem to understand they're supposed to hold the officers to account..... unbelievable....[/p][/quote]I don't necessarily disagree. Ok, so given your arguments, can you give any real reason why they shouldn't get some coaching to be better?[/p][/quote]Because these people are paid £120,000 plus and for that large sum they should be competent! Why should us taxpayers have to cough up more to get them up to scratch..... it's lousy value for money hovian
  • Score: 2

11:42pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Richada says...

realityprevails wrote:
Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue.

Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.
I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas.

I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned.

If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way.
I DO live here and I'm saying that the cost of coaching might well be hugely important in terms of how councils will continue to actually exist. If all you can think about is getting your bin emptied, then you're in a sorry place.
I am in a sorry place - surrounded in uncollected rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]realityprevails[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: Oh no, you've done it now. You've made a sensible point. Who's first to disregard reasoned and intellectual debate and go for the equally valid 'try to tarnish the person who doesn't agree with me by suggesting they have a vested interest'? Come on...form an orderly queue. Just to put your mind and blood pressure at rest Richada, I don't work for the council, indeed I have never worked for any council. I know nothing of your bin problems... I live outside of Brighton and my bin example was purely hypothetical to illustrate different things that can affect a poor service. I would hate to think that I have upset you by accusing you of being to blame for your current waste collection issue. For complete transparency I once went for a job interview at Brighton and Hove Council, but I didn't get it...about 8 or 9 years ago now...so perhaps that makes me dislike them if anything.[/p][/quote]I am not saying that your opinions are not quite valid - if you DID live here maybe you would have more empathy with myself and the "hundreds" (Argus speak, we're talking several thousands here) of people who have been left with waste dating from the week before Christmas. I am aware that strictly speaking my post is probably off topic as far as coaching is concerned. If your coaches can get my bin emptied before next Wednesday (a month since it was last done) then I'll support them all the way.[/p][/quote]I DO live here and I'm saying that the cost of coaching might well be hugely important in terms of how councils will continue to actually exist. If all you can think about is getting your bin emptied, then you're in a sorry place.[/p][/quote]I am in a sorry place - surrounded in uncollected rubbish. Richada
  • Score: 0

10:48am Sat 11 Jan 14

brighton bluenose says...

Richada wrote:
Nobleox wrote:
Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when
you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site?
Yes indeed, the Argus site is indeed highly under-rated!
I think he was taking the proverbial out of posters like yourself!!
[quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nobleox[/bold] wrote: Why waste tax payers money on "paying" for third rate coaching when you can get premier coaching for free on the Argus site?[/p][/quote]Yes indeed, the Argus site is indeed highly under-rated![/p][/quote]I think he was taking the proverbial out of posters like yourself!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: -1

10:51am Sat 11 Jan 14

brighton bluenose says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
It begs the obvious question: two actually.

1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified?
2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well?

Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo
Valerie - providing training to staff, as millions of organisations across the world do, is, as I am sure you are aware, hardly symptomatic of appointing the 'wrong people' or that the staff being trained are 'unable to do their jobs well'!!
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: It begs the obvious question: two actually. 1. Is BHCC attracting and appointing all the wrong people; i.e. underqualified? 2. Are here insufficent grounds available for sacking those unable to do their jobs well? Failing to uphold corporate objectives is a political tool used to fire peo[/p][/quote]Valerie - providing training to staff, as millions of organisations across the world do, is, as I am sure you are aware, hardly symptomatic of appointing the 'wrong people' or that the staff being trained are 'unable to do their jobs well'!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: -1

11:03am Sat 11 Jan 14

brighton bluenose says...

Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place!

Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that!

Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably.

It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable.......

...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years.

We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can.

Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........
What a load of confused twaddle!
WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?!
WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!!
You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term!
These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!!
[quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?[/p][/quote]Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place! Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that! Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably. It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable....... ...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years. We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can. Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........[/p][/quote]What a load of confused twaddle! WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?! WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!! You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term! These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Sat 11 Jan 14

Richada says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place!

Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that!

Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably.

It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable.......

...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years.

We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can.

Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........
What a load of confused twaddle!
WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?!
WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!!
You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term!
These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!!
Apologies, I'm just a resident, one among many paying for all of this.

Let the coaches get on with it - I guess we'll all expect a drastic improvement between here and the new financial year then.

I am not politically motivated and merely wish to see myself and the other "hundreds" of residents get the service they are paying for.

If resources (money) were plentiful, then by all means, indulge in the luxury of coaching. However the one thing that everyone appears to agree on here is that it was cost cutting that brought us to this situation in the first place - i.e. like councils all over the country B&HCC is cash strapped.

Is is so unreasonable to expect the public sector to employ people, at all levels, appropriate to the task in the first place? It is how many in the private sector (apologies for the dirty term there) have had to survive for many hundreds of years.
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?[/p][/quote]Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place! Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that! Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably. It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable....... ...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years. We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can. Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........[/p][/quote]What a load of confused twaddle! WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?! WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!! You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term! These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!![/p][/quote]Apologies, I'm just a resident, one among many paying for all of this. Let the coaches get on with it - I guess we'll all expect a drastic improvement between here and the new financial year then. I am not politically motivated and merely wish to see myself and the other "hundreds" of residents get the service they are paying for. If resources (money) were plentiful, then by all means, indulge in the luxury of coaching. However the one thing that everyone appears to agree on here is that it was cost cutting that brought us to this situation in the first place - i.e. like councils all over the country B&HCC is cash strapped. Is is so unreasonable to expect the public sector to employ people, at all levels, appropriate to the task in the first place? It is how many in the private sector (apologies for the dirty term there) have had to survive for many hundreds of years. Richada
  • Score: 1

5:26pm Sat 11 Jan 14

Hovite says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place!

Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that!

Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably.

It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable.......

...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years.

We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can.

Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........
What a load of confused twaddle!
WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?!
WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!!
You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term!
These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!!
Do you need training to know that the i360 was just an unaffordable pipe dream?

This has been a massive waste of time and resources for the last ten years.
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?[/p][/quote]Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place! Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that! Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably. It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable....... ...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years. We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can. Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........[/p][/quote]What a load of confused twaddle! WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?! WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!! You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term! These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!![/p][/quote]Do you need training to know that the i360 was just an unaffordable pipe dream? This has been a massive waste of time and resources for the last ten years. Hovite
  • Score: 1

6:59pm Sun 12 Jan 14

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
Richada wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:
So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?
Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place!

Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that!

Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably.

It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable.......

...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years.

We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can.

Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........
What a load of confused twaddle!
WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?!
WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!!
You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term!
These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!!
Bluenose...HJ said you should stop posting because you are making the Greens look silly
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnboy1[/bold] wrote: So why shouldn't they have coaching, which may enable them and the staff below them perform better?[/p][/quote]Because they have been employed inappropriately in the first place! Attempting to school (coach) the wrong people is simply throwing good money after bad there is a high probability that they will never make the grade - and, in the meantime, you are paying them to do just that! Take on the right people - experienced or to train on the job WITH the right people - and the whole organisation will work acceptably. It is equally important to rid the organisation of the wrong people as soon as it becomes apparent that they are not suitable....... ...........at least that is what we have found in our business during the last 74 years. We, with a private company, do not have the vast recources privided by the inhabitants of this city at our disposal - so you may just argue that we can't afford "coaching" and have no choice but to get on with making the tough decisions neccessary in order to balance the books AND serve our customers as best we can. Their proven inability to empty the cities dustbins speaks volumes as far as I am concerned - they can't "coach back" the sold-off dustcarts, if that genuinely is the root of the problem here..........[/p][/quote]What a load of confused twaddle! WHO has been employed 'inappropriately' for gods sake?! WHO are these 'wrong people' that you refer to?!! You haven't a clue who has received this coaching, how many staff have been involved, how it has benefitted them professionally and how it will benefit the city in both the wider and longer term! These people may have been in their job for several years and just need assistance in updating their various skill-sets - it is not unreasonable that our major local employers, including the council, offer training to staff of all levels and to suggest otherwise is plain daft!![/p][/quote]Bluenose...HJ said you should stop posting because you are making the Greens look silly I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!
  • Score: 1

7:45pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Richada says...

Coaches a 100% success!

After 25 days our dustbins were emptied Sunday lunchtime.
Coaches a 100% success! After 25 days our dustbins were emptied Sunday lunchtime. Richada
  • Score: 0

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