LiveBudget live - Council debates council tax and cuts

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Last updated

This live event has finished

Summary

  • Proposed 4.75% rise by Greens rejected
  • Meeting adjourned as no agreement on budget

10:31pm

Conservatives voted to stay. Labour and green voted to adjourn. 

10:30pm

Vote is yes 34 and no 16. So we will all come back next week. 

10:30pm

Have to set council tax by march 11. Statute says adjournment would be for until next council meeting which would be next Thursday. Council to take electronic vote. 

10:27pm

Coun Kitcat asks for meeting to be adjourned and to come back next week. 

10:26pm

Mayor apologises for long delay. 

10:26pm

Here we go again. 

10:26pm

Cheers as Green Party members take their seats. Details to be revealed very soon for those still up and with us. 

10:23pm

Greens and labour returning too. 

10:11pm

While the waiting is a bore it could worse. There's apparently a river of sewage in clapham. 

10:03pm

The Conservatives have returned to the chamber. 

9:58pm

Informed a deal between all parties being discussed now. 

9:50pm

Parties are now holding group meetings. Hoping it is to decide something. Not sure yet though. 

9:44pm

Some activity from the party leaders who have all gone off into the private room again. Hope of a deal?

9:43pm

Still waiting ladies and gentlemen. I will let you know if anything happens. 

9:37pm

Labour group are claiming greens are willing to provide three votes that will push through 1.99% if £6,000 is taken off Pride grant. Obviously not had Green side of story and Jason Kitcat is still in the deliberating room.

9:14pm

Another 20 minute wait has just been announced. Furious negotiations going on behind the scenes. 

8:09pm

In view of failure to approve revenue meeting. Meeting is adjourned for an hour so party leaders can meet and discuss. See you in an hour. 

8:08pm

Yes 14, 1 abstention, 35 against. 

8:05pm

Formal council tax resolution now.

8:02pm

That is end of all the ammendments. Substantive vote to come. 

8:01pm

Amendment six and seven also lost. 

7:58pm

Amendment five - cutting travellers budget to stop cuts to libraries - is lost. 14 yes and 36 no. 

7:56pm

Amendment four from labour now being voted on. Result is 14 yes and 36 against. 

7:54pm

Amendment two has also been carried while amendment three has been withdrawn as it overlaps with a previously carried Tory amendment. Sorry for lack of numbers but technology cut out at just the wrong time. 

7:51pm

Number one is funding for able and willing from reserves. Result is yes 31 and 19 against. Amendment is carried. 

7:50pm

We are now onto the labour amendments of which there are another seven. 

7:49pm

Final conservative amendment, number seven, is lost. Yes 16 and no 34. 

7:47pm

Amendment six from the conservatives is lost. 16 yes and 34 no. 

7:46pm

Conservative amendment five is also lost 15 yes to 31 no. Some of these figures will change as some return no choice instead of true vote. But outcome remains. 

7:43pm

Amendment four from the conservatives is to reduce contribution to pension fund and give £120,000 to able and willing. Result is 15 yes and 34 against. 

7:42pm

Amendment three from conservatives concerns reduction. To pension fund to reduce business and trader parking permits. Result is 16 yes and 34 no. 

7:42pm

Amendment three from conservatives concerns reduction. To pension fund to reduce business and trader parking permits. Result is 16 yes and 34 no. 

7:39pm

Amendment two is a Grant to pride of £25k. Result is 30 yes and 20 no. Ammendments carried. 

7:36pm

Onto conservative amendment one on travellers budget among others 16 yes and 30 no. 

7:36pm

Green amendment three also lost with 20 yes and 30 no. 

7:33pm

Next up is amendment 2 from greens to reduce employment support savings. This is also voted out. 

7:31pm

20 yes and 30 no. No abstentions. The 4.75% rise is rejected. 

7:30pm

Cons and labour seem to have stuck to guns and voted no but total not in yet

7:29pm

First up the green 4.75% rise amendment which would trigger a referendum. 

7:29pm

So here we go then

7:28pm

Speeches are over and voting is about to begin. Screens coming down so voting can be recorded. Hubbub in the chamber. 

7:25pm

Coun littman: taking money out would cost more money that it would save. 

7:21pm

Green group only party to stick to manifesto commitments. 

7:21pm

Next year we will see much worse. Country will be in mayhem and people literally fighting for survival. 

7:20pm

Coun Philips: some of the most vulnerable and poor having to deal with other cuts. Unprecedented onslaught. 

7:19pm

Coun kitcat makes last plea for labour to vote with greens for 4.75%

7:18pm

Coun kitcat: demand and costs for adult social care is going up. Both opposition proposals are just one off money. Simplistic short term thinking counting down to election. 

7:14pm

Scare mongering has continued and is disgraceful. 

7:14pm

Surely the question Is when is a leader not a leader.  When a kitcat taking a break. Forcing other to take a decision for them. 

7:13pm

Reasonable certain with labour ammendments can reach responsibilities even with care bill coming through this year. 

7:12pm

Coun meadows: here we go again squabbling over money as we do every year. Adult social care such a critical element in budget setting process. 

7:11pm

Trying to drive down costs but still have overspend. If we save on providers out quality at risk. 90% already outsourced. 

7:10pm

Coun jarrett: increase in demand for services. 

7:08pm

Green administration is abdicating its responsibility. 

7:07pm

Coun peltzer Dunn says he will be making formal complaint about minutes. Congrats coun Hawtree for being film critic of the greens and recommends a copy of Genevieve for Coun Davey. 

7:05pm

Still 500 managers at council. 

7:04pm

Coun janio: tonight I have heard so much rubbish. What we are seeing is that the greens is what you see is what you get. High tax and high spend. Thievery is taking tax away from hard earners of city. 

7:00pm

Coun Pissaridou: party to right want local govt to be so small their only services are to empty bins and party on left cannot even do that. 

6:55pm

Hope by end of today rolled over £10k of funds to support security arrangements but at the moment have doubts of what is proposed. Not a sacred cow though and should not be missed out of microscope of budget. 

6:53pm

Coun Bowden: I want to talk about pride. Would like to endorse everything said about it. Does have meaning for oppressed. But not true that it is in financial jeopardy. 

6:50pm

Coun Duncan: what we are talking about is money being taken from poor and given to rich. Must do bare minimum to protect most vulnerable from this war. 

6:46pm

Life is brief and budget councils are large. Cheapskates talking about elections rather than talking about people's lives. 

6:46pm

Coun Hawtree: what of labour? Narrow divide between them and conservatives. 

6:44pm

A few gremlins in the system but hopefully back up and running again. 

6:40pm

Coun summers: green amendment only that reflects serious situation we are in. If you think this year is bad wait until next year. My own conclusions. On principle I think they are making an attempt to shore up our financial basis. 

6:37pm

Coun summers: green amendment only that reflects serious situation we are in. If you think this year is bad wait until next year. My own conclusions. On principle I think they are making an attempt to shore up our financial basis. 

6:30pm

Short breaks help keep families together  

6:29pm

Coun Caroline theobald: short breaks important for those with disabled children. Benefits are enormous.

6:29pm

Coun Caroline theobald: short breaks important for those with disabled children. Benefits are enormous.

6:28pm

Coun Deane adds she urges house to vote for 4.75% rise. 

6:25pm

Vital to protect in house services. 

6:24pm

Coun shanks: I appreciate what we are doing in children's services. Third time I have had to take money out of the budget. This budget minimising damage to frontline services. 

6:21pm

Our amendment offers full protection for services to disabled children. 

6:19pm

Coun weals talking about short break services for disabled. 

6:19pm

Need a revolution in public services. 

6:18pm

Many of own workers want to be set free from council bureaucracy. 

6:17pm

Coun cox: love to be a leftie and agree to every spending demand but country goes bust when that happens and most vulnerable hit. 

6:15pm

Secured rugby World Cup in 2015. 

6:14pm

Coun Sykes: have led Brighton and hove to be one City one planet status. 

6:11pm

Coun west: need funding to deliver quality services. Consequences will grow if we neglect any of this. 

6:11pm

Coun west: need funding to deliver quality services. Consequences will grow if we neglect any of this. 

6:03pm

Pride is a symbolic event. Cannot take freedom for granted. Beacon of hope for lgbt communities

6:01pm

Coun Wilson: seek to allocate funds to pride. Media attention one ussia and Uganda anti gay laws. As we expresss our shock and disgust easy to forget our own track record and long fight members of lgbt community has faced. 

6:00pm

Sad day for them and council. Hope they are never used in cyclical way again. There is a need for action but administration have not done best to find answers. Shying away from decisions. Divided and distracted. 

5:58pm

This kind of voluntary action makes real difference. Gives voice to people who do not trust statutory powers

5:58pm

Coun Daniel: speaking bout amendment 2 on voluntary sector

5:57pm

Not only about extra money. About difference made to residents' lives. 

5:56pm

Strong possibility some will have to close. 

5:56pm

Coun Simpson: not about loss to organisation who on daily basis support and empower residents. 

Reductions in grants would mean loss of eternal money coming to city. 

5:52pm

Coun fitch asks for words to be directed through mayor as it can be frightening. Tongue firmly in cheek but valid point as is procedure. 

5:49pm

Coun Wakefield: other have chosen to direct cuts to vulnerable section of our community - gypsy and travellers. You cut the traveller budget. Children often face discrimination at school due to widespread prejudices. Few agencies try to reach them and yet you cut budget. 

5:47pm

Can make city safer cleaner and greener. 

5:47pm

Budget includes securing council transport schemes. 

5:45pm

Praises Lewes road and seven dials schemes. But lots of heckling. 

5:45pm

Proposals and seconds done. Now general discussion. Councillor Davey first. 

5:44pm

Let's try again. 

5:40pm

Apologies if there a few lack of updates. Technical issues across wifi and 3G (let's not bring up broadband!)

5:39pm

Apologies if there a few lack of updates. Technical issues across wifi and 3G (let's not bring up broadband!)

5:39pm

Apologies if there a few lack of updates. Technical issues across wifi and 3G (let's not bring up broadband!)

5:34pm

How with costs increasing do they justify ignoring what other Tory authorities are doing. 

5:34pm

How with costs increasing do they justify ignoring what other Tory authorities are doing. 

5:31pm

Some Tory authorities rejecting freeze

5:30pm

This green proposal is because they want to be able to say others vote for cuts but they did not. They want a clean pair of hands. 

5:29pm

Cannot wash hands of decisions. Stand up to your problems. 

5:29pm

Almost a million pound to be the first to hold a referendum. 

5:28pm

Most cannot see personal or financial situation improving this year. Recovery only for a few at the top. When the greens day it is not much they show more clearly than ever that they are out of touch. 

5:28pm

Most cannot see personal or financial situation improving this year. Recovery only for a few at the top. When the greens day it is not much they show more clearly than ever that they are out of touch. 

5:26pm

Despite what we are told economic times are still not good. 

5:25pm

Warren Morgans talks about "Dominic" who can afford council tax rise. Donna has to carefully budget and is behind on loan. Cannot afford council tax. 

5:24pm

Budget like no other. Unprecedented cuts and unprecedented proposal from greens. 

5:23pm

Geoffrey theobald told to sit down after running over time. Councillor warren Morgan labour leader now. 

5:22pm

Those just above threshold will be the ones hit hardest. 

5:21pm

Labour proposal would mean rise in cost of living for all council taxpayers. 

5:21pm

Green amendment would be a costly referendum and would not allow people to vote for freeze. 

5:19pm

Shown how we can freeze council tax and put money back. 

5:18pm

Geoffrey theobald now

5:16pm

It is ordinary residents who lose out as a result of pointless political posturing by labour. Budget is about priorities and choices. Ours are clear. 

5:16pm

It is ordinary residents who lose out as a result of pointless political posturing by labour. Budget is about priorities and choices. Ours are clear. 

5:14pm

Labour are democracy dodging. Their proposal will only raise 855,000 pound extra. 

5:14pm

Labour are democracy dodging. Their proposal will only raise 855,000 pound extra. 

5:13pm

Greens are high tax, high spend

5:11pm

With political will services can be protected. 

5:10pm

Brighton and hove is getting less behind. Council independent auditors continue to say some our services are expensive compared to others. 

5:09pm

Misunderstanding namely only way to protect front line services is to raise council tax. It needn't be that way. Número us examples of forward thinking councils who have decided to test market and work together to reuse running costs. 

5:08pm

Ann Norman from conservatives to propose their amendments. 

5:07pm

Support green budget and protect social care. 

5:07pm

Only long term option. It's a green vision for nobody being left behind. Sought to do hanks in our party. Only brave enough in uk to dot his. Offering true alternative. 

5:06pm

Difference between greens and labour 61p a week

5:06pm

Pressure is incredible. Council tax is imperfect and referendum process is imperfect. Have to work with what we have in front of us today. We are incredibly efficient. Taken 60 million out with 100 million more. We are being honest and facing up to the problem. 

5:05pm

Every party says it. Council finances are I crisis. By 2020 main source of govt grants will go to nothing. We should care for elderly and disabled. Social cart will be hit hardest and it is in crisis. Going to see 25% growth over next five years in over 85s

5:03pm

Finances are heading into crisis in next few years and owe it to people to be honest about that. Not a party political point. 

5:03pm

One of top places in uk for new business creation. No doubt city doing well but more to be done. Benefit won't be fast or big enough to deal with scale of cuts we are facing

5:02pm

Jason kitcat to speak now

5:01pm

Green group are setting out their ammendments.

4:59pm

Greens: "Presenting budget to you but unless budget amendment supported I cannot support it"

4:57pm

After some technical difficulties with the council and with us we are back underway. 

4:47pm

There are currently issues with the council's webcast system so the meeting has been briefly adjourned. 

4:47pm

Welcome to our live blog of this afternoon's budget meeting of Brighton and Hove City Council. 

Comments (10)

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5:57pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Fight_Back says...

Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.
Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all. Fight_Back
  • Score: 6

7:22pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Fight_Back says...

How come the Tory and Labour Cllrs can speak calmly yet the Green ones seem very angry ?
How come the Tory and Labour Cllrs can speak calmly yet the Green ones seem very angry ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 8

11:38pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Vigilia says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.
Like the people she champions, she has little respect for anyone or anything that runs counter to her entrenched views on society. This is an extract from the public minutes of the Traveller Policy Scrutiny Panel in 2011.
"She was very concerned about the negative press that was given to
Travellers and felt that events such as Gypsy Traveller History Month could
be used to dispel the myths held by the settled community. It would be very
positive to encourage the settled community to take part in this project. An
example of a success story which could be publicised was that there were 4
council officers who were Travellers. This was kept a secret at the moment.
Cllr Wakefield was involved in the East Sussex Gypsy and Traveller Forum
and this could be used to foster regional co-operation. Horsdean transit site,
with a permanent site nearby, could increase flexibility and give those
stopping inappropriately the chance to move onto the transit site. This is what
the Traveller community want; a safe site and access to health and education
services."
A woman more divorced from reality would be hard to find but that is what political ideology does to one.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.[/p][/quote]Like the people she champions, she has little respect for anyone or anything that runs counter to her entrenched views on society. This is an extract from the public minutes of the Traveller Policy Scrutiny Panel in 2011. "She was very concerned about the negative press that was given to Travellers and felt that events such as Gypsy Traveller History Month could be used to dispel the myths held by the settled community. It would be very positive to encourage the settled community to take part in this project. An example of a success story which could be publicised was that there were 4 council officers who were Travellers. This was kept a secret at the moment. Cllr Wakefield was involved in the East Sussex Gypsy and Traveller Forum and this could be used to foster regional co-operation. Horsdean transit site, with a permanent site nearby, could increase flexibility and give those stopping inappropriately the chance to move onto the transit site. This is what the Traveller community want; a safe site and access to health and education services." A woman more divorced from reality would be hard to find but that is what political ideology does to one. Vigilia
  • Score: 5

6:32am Fri 28 Feb 14

JHunty says...

Yeah we don't really refer to our selves as the settled community, perhaps we could be shown the courtesy of being referred to in a way we find acceptable. Anyway nice to see the councillors at this meeting turned down the chance to fund Able and Willing by decreasing their pension pot. It will be interesting to see if the Greens can control their desire to self destruct and throw Jason to the wolves now they have lost the chance to increase the budget by 4.75% If he cuts a deal with Labour I expect the Duncanistis will be after his head.
Yeah we don't really refer to our selves as the settled community, perhaps we could be shown the courtesy of being referred to in a way we find acceptable. Anyway nice to see the councillors at this meeting turned down the chance to fund Able and Willing by decreasing their pension pot. It will be interesting to see if the Greens can control their desire to self destruct and throw Jason to the wolves now they have lost the chance to increase the budget by 4.75% If he cuts a deal with Labour I expect the Duncanistis will be after his head. JHunty
  • Score: 4

8:01am Fri 28 Feb 14

Roy Pennington says...

debate of titanic redolence -- btw, if the votes are counted electronically, how can the voters see who voted which way?
debate of titanic redolence -- btw, if the votes are counted electronically, how can the voters see who voted which way? Roy Pennington
  • Score: 0

8:12am Fri 28 Feb 14

Thay Qon U says...

I wonder if the Green Party were reluctant to continue the debate as they had more urgent focus on getting to the Green Party Spring Conference in Liverpool which begins this morning?

One of the conference sessions is titled " Fringe - AGC Session - Being a Green Councillor, Mistakes I have made" - could this speaker be anyone from BHCC?
I wonder if the Green Party were reluctant to continue the debate as they had more urgent focus on getting to the Green Party Spring Conference in Liverpool which begins this morning? One of the conference sessions is titled " Fringe - AGC Session - Being a Green Councillor, Mistakes I have made" - could this speaker be anyone from BHCC? Thay Qon U
  • Score: 3

1:24am Thu 6 Mar 14

RobJarrett says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.
Not true, if you listened to her speech she respects Jeremy Corbyn.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.[/p][/quote]Not true, if you listened to her speech she respects Jeremy Corbyn. RobJarrett
  • Score: 0

1:25am Thu 6 Mar 14

RobJarrett says...

Fight_Back wrote:
How come the Tory and Labour Cllrs can speak calmly yet the Green ones seem very angry ?
Because we care.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: How come the Tory and Labour Cllrs can speak calmly yet the Green ones seem very angry ?[/p][/quote]Because we care. RobJarrett
  • Score: 0

1:27am Thu 6 Mar 14

RobJarrett says...

Vigilia wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.
Like the people she champions, she has little respect for anyone or anything that runs counter to her entrenched views on society. This is an extract from the public minutes of the Traveller Policy Scrutiny Panel in 2011.
"She was very concerned about the negative press that was given to
Travellers and felt that events such as Gypsy Traveller History Month could
be used to dispel the myths held by the settled community. It would be very
positive to encourage the settled community to take part in this project. An
example of a success story which could be publicised was that there were 4
council officers who were Travellers. This was kept a secret at the moment.
Cllr Wakefield was involved in the East Sussex Gypsy and Traveller Forum
and this could be used to foster regional co-operation. Horsdean transit site,
with a permanent site nearby, could increase flexibility and give those
stopping inappropriately the chance to move onto the transit site. This is what
the Traveller community want; a safe site and access to health and education
services."
A woman more divorced from reality would be hard to find but that is what political ideology does to one.
You clearly don't know her at all
[quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: Liz Wakefield appears to be a nasty piece of work. No respect for anyone else in other parties at all.[/p][/quote]Like the people she champions, she has little respect for anyone or anything that runs counter to her entrenched views on society. This is an extract from the public minutes of the Traveller Policy Scrutiny Panel in 2011. "She was very concerned about the negative press that was given to Travellers and felt that events such as Gypsy Traveller History Month could be used to dispel the myths held by the settled community. It would be very positive to encourage the settled community to take part in this project. An example of a success story which could be publicised was that there were 4 council officers who were Travellers. This was kept a secret at the moment. Cllr Wakefield was involved in the East Sussex Gypsy and Traveller Forum and this could be used to foster regional co-operation. Horsdean transit site, with a permanent site nearby, could increase flexibility and give those stopping inappropriately the chance to move onto the transit site. This is what the Traveller community want; a safe site and access to health and education services." A woman more divorced from reality would be hard to find but that is what political ideology does to one.[/p][/quote]You clearly don't know her at all RobJarrett
  • Score: 1

1:28am Thu 6 Mar 14

RobJarrett says...

Roy Pennington wrote:
debate of titanic redolence -- btw, if the votes are counted electronically, how can the voters see who voted which way?
They are projected on a screen and they'll be in the minutes.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Pennington[/bold] wrote: debate of titanic redolence -- btw, if the votes are counted electronically, how can the voters see who voted which way?[/p][/quote]They are projected on a screen and they'll be in the minutes. RobJarrett
  • Score: 0

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