Public could sway vote on new 20mph limits in Brighton and Hove

Public could sway vote on new 20mph limits in Brighton and Hove

Public could sway vote on new 20mph limits in Brighton and Hove

First published in News by , local government reporter

Public support for reduced speed limits on three roads at the centre of a political spat could override councillors.

The Green Party wanted to reduce speed limits on Surrenden Road, Preston Drove and Stanford Avenue when the party launched its second phase of a speed limit roll-out.

But when it was discussed at Brighton and Hove City Council in December last year opposition Labour and Conservative members claimed the lower limit would hinder buses and taxis.


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Since then the public have been given the opportunity to comment on the plans and 700 people have signed a petition and 70 other individuals have called for the streets to be included in the phase two roll out.

About 5,000 children are pupils at schools near Surrenden Road while Preston Drove and Stanford Avenue are near two busy community parks.

The project – and the public’s opinions – will be discussed at the council’s transport committee on Tuesday.

Chairman of the council’s environment, transport and sustainability committee, Coun Pete West, said: “We’ve taken on board the public support and listened to the safety advice from officers, who are recommending that we proceed with slower speeds on Surrenden Road, Preston Drove and Stanford Avenue.”

He added: “As we found previously the majority of residents who responded were in favour of introducing 20mph.”

The first phase of the road scheme was introduced in April last year in the city centre to a mixed reaction.

According to initial speed checks carried out in the first six months of the project speeds reduced by about 74%.

But both the Conservative Party and Labour have criticised the city’s leading party for rushing ahead with the second phase of the speed limit plan, stating a proper evidence-based evaluation should be done on the initial phase before it is rolled out across more of the city.

Conservative group leader Geoffrey Theobald, whose party introduced a number of 20mph limits while in power, said: “Frankly after they introduced phase one then there should have been a period of reflection before phase two.”

Coun Gill Mitchell, Labour’s transport spokeswoman, added: “From my own experience talking to people on the doorsteps it’s a very mixed picture.”

Comments (14)

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12:37pm Fri 28 Feb 14

NickBtn says...

"According to initial speed checks carried out in the first six months of the project speeds reduced by about 74%". I don't think that this is correct. If it was then that would make the average speed around 7mph!

I suspect what the article means to say is that average speeds have reduced on 74% of roads (which of course means that on 26% average speeds have gone up by putting the speed limit down!). If I remember the article correctly a few months ago the average speed reduction was marginal too - just over 1mph

Not sure whether including roads in the scheme or not makes much difference on the evidence so far. I hate to agree with the Tories, but we should wait, see what the effect is and then spend more money if it works. So far the evidence really implies that it's money wasted. Instead perhaps smaller areas of town with 20mph with traffic slowing - doing the job properly in a small area rather than poorly and unnecessarily over a large area
"According to initial speed checks carried out in the first six months of the project speeds reduced by about 74%". I don't think that this is correct. If it was then that would make the average speed around 7mph! I suspect what the article means to say is that average speeds have reduced on 74% of roads (which of course means that on 26% average speeds have gone up by putting the speed limit down!). If I remember the article correctly a few months ago the average speed reduction was marginal too - just over 1mph Not sure whether including roads in the scheme or not makes much difference on the evidence so far. I hate to agree with the Tories, but we should wait, see what the effect is and then spend more money if it works. So far the evidence really implies that it's money wasted. Instead perhaps smaller areas of town with 20mph with traffic slowing - doing the job properly in a small area rather than poorly and unnecessarily over a large area NickBtn
  • Score: 7

1:19pm Fri 28 Feb 14

IndigoTram says...

NickBtn wrote:
"According to initial speed checks carried out in the first six months of the project speeds reduced by about 74%". I don't think that this is correct. If it was then that would make the average speed around 7mph!

I suspect what the article means to say is that average speeds have reduced on 74% of roads (which of course means that on 26% average speeds have gone up by putting the speed limit down!). If I remember the article correctly a few months ago the average speed reduction was marginal too - just over 1mph

Not sure whether including roads in the scheme or not makes much difference on the evidence so far. I hate to agree with the Tories, but we should wait, see what the effect is and then spend more money if it works. So far the evidence really implies that it's money wasted. Instead perhaps smaller areas of town with 20mph with traffic slowing - doing the job properly in a small area rather than poorly and unnecessarily over a large area
Isn't it possible that, for that 26% of roads, the average speeds may have simply stayed the same, or shown insignificant change?
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: "According to initial speed checks carried out in the first six months of the project speeds reduced by about 74%". I don't think that this is correct. If it was then that would make the average speed around 7mph! I suspect what the article means to say is that average speeds have reduced on 74% of roads (which of course means that on 26% average speeds have gone up by putting the speed limit down!). If I remember the article correctly a few months ago the average speed reduction was marginal too - just over 1mph Not sure whether including roads in the scheme or not makes much difference on the evidence so far. I hate to agree with the Tories, but we should wait, see what the effect is and then spend more money if it works. So far the evidence really implies that it's money wasted. Instead perhaps smaller areas of town with 20mph with traffic slowing - doing the job properly in a small area rather than poorly and unnecessarily over a large area[/p][/quote]Isn't it possible that, for that 26% of roads, the average speeds may have simply stayed the same, or shown insignificant change? IndigoTram
  • Score: 3

1:20pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Ania Green says...

The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives. Ania Green
  • Score: -39

1:26pm Fri 28 Feb 14

cynic_the says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
ANOTHER Troll?
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]ANOTHER Troll? cynic_the
  • Score: 17

1:29pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Automaton says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
Is this just your opinion or is there any peer reviewed data to support these claims??

I feel journey times have increased though my experience suggest this is due to the cycle and/or bus lanes on the A27 and Lewes Road. It would be interesting to see the data.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]Is this just your opinion or is there any peer reviewed data to support these claims?? I feel journey times have increased though my experience suggest this is due to the cycle and/or bus lanes on the A27 and Lewes Road. It would be interesting to see the data. Automaton
  • Score: 21

1:58pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Bob_The_Ferret says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
If journey times have not increased, then speeds have not actually fallen!
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]If journey times have not increased, then speeds have not actually fallen! Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 12

2:08pm Fri 28 Feb 14

pwlr1966 says...

WHAT, the GREENS LISTEN, don't make me laugh
WHAT, the GREENS LISTEN, don't make me laugh pwlr1966
  • Score: 12

2:23pm Fri 28 Feb 14

pachallis says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
@Ania Green - are you by any chance Anya Kitcat posting under a pseudonym?
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]@Ania Green - are you by any chance Anya Kitcat posting under a pseudonym? pachallis
  • Score: 16

5:45pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Fight_Back says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
Care to provide a link to the data ? Thought not !
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]Care to provide a link to the data ? Thought not ! Fight_Back
  • Score: 7

6:54pm Fri 28 Feb 14

BrightonHoveboy says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
The green (behind the ears) party has only increased pollution amd congestion in our once magnificent town.People and businesses are leaving or going bust. Also, it seems convenient that everyone forgetsthat Brighton & Hove was found to be the worst place for "pedestrian/vehicle interface". This was around eighteen months after the council spent £1,500,000 in the area affected, North Street and Western Road- already a 20mph limit and restricted vehicles only- mostly huge great busses!!! Idiot Council. Idiot Councillors. Idiot Council penpushers
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]The green (behind the ears) party has only increased pollution amd congestion in our once magnificent town.People and businesses are leaving or going bust. Also, it seems convenient that everyone forgetsthat Brighton & Hove was found to be the worst place for "pedestrian/vehicle interface". This was around eighteen months after the council spent £1,500,000 in the area affected, North Street and Western Road- already a 20mph limit and restricted vehicles only- mostly huge great busses!!! Idiot Council. Idiot Councillors. Idiot Council penpushers BrightonHoveboy
  • Score: 10

11:05pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Gribbet says...

But how can this be? The vast majority of the regular commenters on here (you know who you are) always claim that their opinion is representative of 'the people of B&H' and yet they despise 20mph speed limit zones.

Oh dear, looks like the loud majority on here may actually hold the minority view after all.
But how can this be? The vast majority of the regular commenters on here (you know who you are) always claim that their opinion is representative of 'the people of B&H' and yet they despise 20mph speed limit zones. Oh dear, looks like the loud majority on here may actually hold the minority view after all. Gribbet
  • Score: -3

10:59pm Sat 1 Mar 14

Cogidubnus says...

I'm in the bus business and know from personal experience that these blanket 20mph zones DO increase journey times....so much so that recently I've seen four bus routes in one town where the difficult decision has to be made, that in order to maintain the basic reliability of the service, either the number of vehicles used has to be increased, or the frequency of the routes needs to be reduced so that the number of vehicles used remains constant.

Either way, this is not good for either our business, nor longer term for our customers.

Personally I'm not against 20mph limits within designated "homezones" nor in the areas immediately surrounding schools etc...but blanket application of a limit in other areas (which has NOT been proven to materially increase safety) seems to me symptomatic of either mental laziness or political expediency...I lean towards the sound bytes of the latter!
I'm in the bus business and know from personal experience that these blanket 20mph zones DO increase journey times....so much so that recently I've seen four bus routes in one town where the difficult decision has to be made, that in order to maintain the basic reliability of the service, either the number of vehicles used has to be increased, or the frequency of the routes needs to be reduced so that the number of vehicles used remains constant. Either way, this is not good for either our business, nor longer term for our customers. Personally I'm not against 20mph limits within designated "homezones" nor in the areas immediately surrounding schools etc...but blanket application of a limit in other areas (which has NOT been proven to materially increase safety) seems to me symptomatic of either mental laziness or political expediency...I lean towards the sound bytes of the latter! Cogidubnus
  • Score: 3

7:00pm Sun 2 Mar 14

sidekick125 says...

Ania Green wrote:
The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.
Tell that to the girl who got hit by the bus.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The reduction in the speed limit to 20mph has been a huge success. There has been a big decrease in accidents and vehicle journey times have not increased at all. We want to make B&H a safe pleasant city for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike and our figures show that we are achieving these objectives.[/p][/quote]Tell that to the girl who got hit by the bus. sidekick125
  • Score: 0

10:47pm Sun 2 Mar 14

ARMANA says...

I drive down Ditchling road every day, the average speed, 40 mph, until you get to the speed camera, then we all speed up again till you get to the fiveways traffic lights. then mostly 30mph down till the bottom, Byeee,
I drive down Ditchling road every day, the average speed, 40 mph, until you get to the speed camera, then we all speed up again till you get to the fiveways traffic lights. then mostly 30mph down till the bottom, Byeee, ARMANA
  • Score: 1

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