The ArgusMajor seafront route could be closed for weeks following collapse (From The Argus)

Get involved: Send your news, views, pictures and video by texting SUPIC to 80360 or email us.

Major Brighton seafront route could be closed for weeks following collapse

The Argus: Major seafront route could be closed for weeks following collapse Major seafront route could be closed for weeks following collapse

A section of Brighton’s seafront could be closed for weeks after the road collapsed into a pub in the historic arches below.

Structural engineers are working to assess the extent of the damage this weekend while a busy stretch of the A259 King’s Road eastbound remains closed off between West Street and Ship Street.

The collapse comes just months after it was revealed another section of structurally unsound arches along the seafront need tens of millions of pounds of work.

At 8am yesterday workmen trying to repair a leak at the back of the Fortune of War pub in the Kings Road Arches removed a piece of plywood on the arched roof.

Earthwork and rocks cascaded into the pub leaving a hole which revealing a disused water main and the tarmac of the road about 6ft above.

When the workmen realised there was no longer anything supporting the road they ran up and stopped the traffic on the A259, where the road had sunk.

Sussex Police cordoning off the scene from and surveyors from Brighton and Hove City Council and Southern Water assessed the damage.

Laurence Hill, manager of the Fortune of War, said: "We had builders working to shore up a fire exit at the back of the pub.

"They took out a part of ceiling and then loads of rubble just came down.

"It looks like there is nothing holding the road up at some points but luckily no one was hurt.”

At 11.30am yesterday morning the road was reopened east bound only for access and light vehicles, but the clogged up city remained congested throughout the day.

In a statement Sussex Police said: “Lorries and the majority of traffic are still being diverted via the B2185 Grand Avenue and The Drive, Hove, onto the A270 Old Shoreham Road.

“Westbound traffic is still being diverted north at the Aquarium roundabout/Palace Pier to follow the A23 London Road to join the A270 New England Road and Old Shoreham Road.”

Mr Hill said surveyors yesterday stripped away more of the panelling to check the integrity of the archway.

Mr Hill said: “I don’t know if there is a problem with the arch, but it looks like the builders came across some repair work done when there were still horse and carriages on the road, rather than heavy traffic.”

The pub reopened but its upper deck seating remained closed while the collapse was investigated.

A spokesman for Southern Water said: “Our engineers have been in Kings Road, Brighton, helping investigate the cause of the subsidence.

“This precautionary work included digging down to check our water mains.

“We have not found any problems with our mains that could have contributed to this issue.”

Brighton and Hove City Council executive director Geoff Raw said: “Structural engineers will be working over the weekend to assess the extent of the problem and which seems to have been caused by historic alterations to premises in the arches.

“We’re working as swiftly as possible with the police and key partners to ensure public safety and to keep the traffic moving as smoothly as possi ble.

“A contra flow system is now in place between Middle Street and West Street, please allow extra time for journeys through this area and check the council website for updates.”

In January this year The Argus revealed the city council faces a bill for almost £80 million of repair work on the seafront – including £65 million for the arches amid fears of possible collapse.

Mr Raw’s statement that yesterday’s collapse was caused by historic alterations to premises in the arches echoes the council’s statement in January, which said: “Many different forms of construction have been used over the last 125 years to build and then extend the arches.”

A council spokesman said the extent of any structural problem uncovered yesterday would not be determined until a survey was completed.

Yesterday opposition councillors called on Brighton and Hove City Council to take urgent action.

Councillor Warren Morgan, Leader of the Labour and Co-operative Group on Brighton and Hove City Council, said: “The collapse shows how critical the condition of our most important transport arteries is.

“It is vital for business, tourism and of course traffic and major disruption will do immense harm to our city’s economy.”

He said the council knows tens of millions of pounds needs to be invested in the city’s main seafront road and called for funding to be diverted from other projects.

Conservative group leader Geoffrey Theobald added: “I’m quite surprised that the situation has been allowed to occur.

“It’s a very important road and I’m just surprised it’s been allowed to happen. You assume engineers are constantly checking the road.”

In response Green Councillor Ian Davey, lead member for transport, said: “We recognised immediately that emergency action needed to be taken and working with the police and others, secured the area for urgent investigation.

“Strengthening the seafront is an enormous project which in total costs many millions more than the council has – especially after years of neglect.

“We have bid many times for government funding to help meet the bill, but unfortunately these weren’t successful.

“We are however spending an unprecedented amount of council money – over £2 million a year - on rebuilding sections of our seafront. This work is vital to our city and its economy.

“It’s disingenuous for Cllr Morgan to talk about diverting funds - he knows it’s not possible as that funding has been granted by the Local Enterprise Partnership to a specific project.

“It’s not ours to spend on anything else - and if we were to try, it could be taken away from the city altogether.

“Rather than playing political football and misleading residents about this serious matter, perhaps Cllr Morgan can support the council and police officers working hard to deal with this unforeseeable incident and get the city moving again as quickly as possible.”

Owners of businesses in other seafront arches were confident that the collapse was an isolated problem.

Mike Levy, owner of the Castor and Pollux art gallery, said: “This is not the Brighton seafront falling it is a localised incident – I am not concerned at all.”

Another business owner, who did not want to be named, said he believed if there was any real danger to their shops they would have been told to close.

Katty McMuarry, owner of Two Kats and a Cow, said: “I was concerned when I came down this morning and saw the road closed and the police around.

“The arches are old structures and we have assured by surveyors that they are structurally sound.

“We thought it was going to be a quiet day with all the rain and then this happened.”

Comments (52)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

7:09am Sat 26 Apr 14

rogerthefish says...

Well let's forget the stupid rivet thing and spend it on something of use or we will have years of delay, and open western road/north st whilst this is going on.
Well let's forget the stupid rivet thing and spend it on something of use or we will have years of delay, and open western road/north st whilst this is going on. rogerthefish
  • Score: 32

7:28am Sat 26 Apr 14

rogerthefish says...

Oh and I forgot when's the argus going to organise a coach trip to Weymouth sea life tower to see their rivet that's failing to bring in the punters after only two years of trading. It's run by Merlin entertainments who run Madame Tussaud's, Blackpool Tower, Bridge Climb Sydney Australia among 100 attractions worldwide and second only in size to Disney. their headquarters are in Poole so you would have thought they would be keeping an "eye" on a £3.5 million investment. So councillors get out/down from your Ivory towers and go and look before you put this town in hock for £35 million over your vanity project.
Oh and I forgot when's the argus going to organise a coach trip to Weymouth sea life tower to see their rivet that's failing to bring in the punters after only two years of trading. It's run by Merlin entertainments who run Madame Tussaud's, Blackpool Tower, Bridge Climb Sydney Australia among 100 attractions worldwide and second only in size to Disney. their headquarters are in Poole so you would have thought they would be keeping an "eye" on a £3.5 million investment. So councillors get out/down from your Ivory towers and go and look before you put this town in hock for £35 million over your vanity project. rogerthefish
  • Score: 48

7:45am Sat 26 Apr 14

Juleyanne says...

Scrap the multi million pound gimmicky viewing platform - problem solved!
Scrap the multi million pound gimmicky viewing platform - problem solved! Juleyanne
  • Score: 49

8:06am Sat 26 Apr 14

salty_pete says...

Slowly but surely over the past 25 years many of the east-west routes across Brighton and Hove have been closed, or seriously reduced in capacity with the introduction of bus and/or cycle lanes. It now just leaves two routes via Preston Circus or the seafront, and one fiddly route via North Road and Eastern Road. Lose just one of these roads and the city rapidly descends into gridlock. However as the emphasis over the last 25 years has been to improve the routes for pedestrians and cyclists at the expense of cars (and businesses) we are now faced with all those elderly and/or infirm citizens of the city having their mobility seriously compromised by just the closure of one road. Maybe the incoming councillors at the next election will try and persuade the (Un?)Sustainable Transport dept. to actually work to improve the flow of traffic across and in the city, instead of their focus of cyclist and pedestrians. But I don't have much hope as all incoming councillors seem to get hijacked and toe the line fed to them by the transport dept.
Slowly but surely over the past 25 years many of the east-west routes across Brighton and Hove have been closed, or seriously reduced in capacity with the introduction of bus and/or cycle lanes. It now just leaves two routes via Preston Circus or the seafront, and one fiddly route via North Road and Eastern Road. Lose just one of these roads and the city rapidly descends into gridlock. However as the emphasis over the last 25 years has been to improve the routes for pedestrians and cyclists at the expense of cars (and businesses) we are now faced with all those elderly and/or infirm citizens of the city having their mobility seriously compromised by just the closure of one road. Maybe the incoming councillors at the next election will try and persuade the (Un?)Sustainable Transport dept. to actually work to improve the flow of traffic across and in the city, instead of their focus of cyclist and pedestrians. But I don't have much hope as all incoming councillors seem to get hijacked and toe the line fed to them by the transport dept. salty_pete
  • Score: 45

8:21am Sat 26 Apr 14

TIMBURRY says...

On 6 May last year riptide gym was shut down for the same reason, the whole of kings arches are going to have the problems they where never meant to be multiple units all knocked into one to make pubs and clubs which hold hundreds of customers. I've all ways wandered how the clubs have got away without proper fire exits.
On 6 May last year riptide gym was shut down for the same reason, the whole of kings arches are going to have the problems they where never meant to be multiple units all knocked into one to make pubs and clubs which hold hundreds of customers. I've all ways wandered how the clubs have got away without proper fire exits. TIMBURRY
  • Score: 39

8:31am Sat 26 Apr 14

Old Ladys Gin says...

Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings.
A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy.
I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness.
The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well.
A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.
Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings. A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy. I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness. The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well. A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue. Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: 19

8:59am Sat 26 Apr 14

havendweller says...

How much have the 20mph zones and numerous bus lanes cost to implement? How much does the council earn in parking charges over the course of a year?
Surely money can be made available from these schemes to pay for essential repairs to the city's roads.
Many years of under investment but the largest income from parking outside of London. How have the council found themselves in this situation?
How much have the 20mph zones and numerous bus lanes cost to implement? How much does the council earn in parking charges over the course of a year? Surely money can be made available from these schemes to pay for essential repairs to the city's roads. Many years of under investment but the largest income from parking outside of London. How have the council found themselves in this situation? havendweller
  • Score: 46

9:33am Sat 26 Apr 14

Morpheus says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings.
A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy.
I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness.
The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well.
A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.
I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned.
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings. A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy. I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness. The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well. A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.[/p][/quote]I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned. Morpheus
  • Score: 23

9:38am Sat 26 Apr 14

Saltdean Resident says...

I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.
I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan. Saltdean Resident
  • Score: 16

9:49am Sat 26 Apr 14

saveHOVE says...

No political party can claim the high ground. End of. For many decades now the attention has been on the urban rather than seafront parts of the city and to some extent this was a response to the rise and rise of cheap package hols to sun and sand beaches abroad and a perceived need to bring people to Brighton and Hove for the city itself.

Now of course we see B&H pinning all its revenue hopes on the i360 which could not attract private funding and which B&H believe is going to generate huge revenues. Meanwhile, it has been the habit of our councils to take existing revenues generated by the seafront and divert this to uses elsewhere in the city.

The Seafront Scrutiny Panel meetings revealed the extent of the deliberate neglect....the Greens just fell in with the convention of decades.

The one and only moment when the seafront got a look in was under the last Conservative Administration which invested in restoration of The Birdcage Bandstand.

The storms this winter were ruthless in exposing the folly of leaving the seafront to look after itself. There is a hole in the sea wall below the Kings Espanade in Hove that a saveHOVE supporter has drawn attention to. We know the Marine Terraces need underpinning in Brighton.

If you believe, as 1,200 signatories already do, that BHCC has no business borrowing £36.2m to lend to get i360 built on the grounds it is infrastructure and that it will generate income for the council, please sign the petition asking the Public Works Loan Board not to let BHCC have the money to lend on (at a higher rate of interest) to Marks Barfield's Brighton i360 Ltd. The city should borrow for REAL infrastructure that generates REAL income for the city if it is to borrow at all.

Here is a link to the petition.- tinyurl.com/o9t76xh

....and then there is the issue of the extreme depth to which i360 would have to drill and how that would affect surrounding geology. Anyone aganst fracking, should also be against the i360 deep drill for a base that can support the over 500 foot high pole and pod.

.....and an issue with wind. On the Marks Barfield site, there is a 2012 article reprinted saying it would not run if wind gusted above 44mph. Helloooooo. Remember this winter? We get that quite a lot. And it can only take 110 mph gusts for seconds. The next hurricane could challenge the structural integrity of the wretched thing!!!

The i360 money is a bailout of a scheme the public sector shunned. The seafront needs should come before bailing out Marks Barfield and The West Pier Trustees. Please sign the petition.
No political party can claim the high ground. End of. For many decades now the attention has been on the urban rather than seafront parts of the city and to some extent this was a response to the rise and rise of cheap package hols to sun and sand beaches abroad and a perceived need to bring people to Brighton and Hove for the city itself. Now of course we see B&H pinning all its revenue hopes on the i360 which could not attract private funding and which B&H believe is going to generate huge revenues. Meanwhile, it has been the habit of our councils to take existing revenues generated by the seafront and divert this to uses elsewhere in the city. The Seafront Scrutiny Panel meetings revealed the extent of the deliberate neglect....the Greens just fell in with the convention of decades. The one and only moment when the seafront got a look in was under the last Conservative Administration which invested in restoration of The Birdcage Bandstand. The storms this winter were ruthless in exposing the folly of leaving the seafront to look after itself. There is a hole in the sea wall below the Kings Espanade in Hove that a saveHOVE supporter has drawn attention to. We know the Marine Terraces need underpinning in Brighton. If you believe, as 1,200 signatories already do, that BHCC has no business borrowing £36.2m to lend to get i360 built on the grounds it is infrastructure and that it will generate income for the council, please sign the petition asking the Public Works Loan Board not to let BHCC have the money to lend on (at a higher rate of interest) to Marks Barfield's Brighton i360 Ltd. The city should borrow for REAL infrastructure that generates REAL income for the city if it is to borrow at all. Here is a link to the petition.- tinyurl.com/o9t76xh ....and then there is the issue of the extreme depth to which i360 would have to drill and how that would affect surrounding geology. Anyone aganst fracking, should also be against the i360 deep drill for a base that can support the over 500 foot high pole and pod. .....and an issue with wind. On the Marks Barfield site, there is a 2012 article reprinted saying it would not run if wind gusted above 44mph. Helloooooo. Remember this winter? We get that quite a lot. And it can only take 110 mph gusts for seconds. The next hurricane could challenge the structural integrity of the wretched thing!!! The i360 money is a bailout of a scheme the public sector shunned. The seafront needs should come before bailing out Marks Barfield and The West Pier Trustees. Please sign the petition. saveHOVE
  • Score: 31

9:59am Sat 26 Apr 14

wexler53 says...

If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it.
If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it. wexler53
  • Score: 29

10:04am Sat 26 Apr 14

From beer to uncertainty says...

Saltdean Resident wrote:
I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.
No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax.
Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers?
I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment?
[quote][p][bold]Saltdean Resident[/bold] wrote: I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.[/p][/quote]No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax. Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers? I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment? From beer to uncertainty
  • Score: 13

10:15am Sat 26 Apr 14

Martha Gunn says...

Scrap the vanity projects and get on with the essentials.

And apply the same principle to collecting the rubbish and recycling.

No more Greenspeak - we want our city back!
Scrap the vanity projects and get on with the essentials. And apply the same principle to collecting the rubbish and recycling. No more Greenspeak - we want our city back! Martha Gunn
  • Score: 32

10:24am Sat 26 Apr 14

lewes road low life says...

sounds like a load of bungaroosh to me.
sounds like a load of bungaroosh to me. lewes road low life
  • Score: 5

11:03am Sat 26 Apr 14

Eugenius says...

Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises.

Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future. Eugenius
  • Score: -13

11:14am Sat 26 Apr 14

whatevernext2013 says...

Eugenius wrote:
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises.

Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
do you read the report ,i read the damage may date back to the horse and cart days
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.[/p][/quote]do you read the report ,i read the damage may date back to the horse and cart days whatevernext2013
  • Score: 7

11:20am Sat 26 Apr 14

whatevernext2013 says...

Morpheus wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings.
A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy.
I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness.
The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well.
A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.
I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned.
may be you should take a walk down north street and see the state of some of it add to it the numbers of homeless with there dogs begging on it and it really a sad state for a once great town that became a city and fell apart
[quote][p][bold]Morpheus[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings. A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy. I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness. The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well. A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.[/p][/quote]I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned.[/p][/quote]may be you should take a walk down north street and see the state of some of it add to it the numbers of homeless with there dogs begging on it and it really a sad state for a once great town that became a city and fell apart whatevernext2013
  • Score: 15

11:36am Sat 26 Apr 14

Gribbet says...

From beer to uncertainty wrote:
Saltdean Resident wrote:
I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.
No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax.
Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers?
I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment?
No, you are wrong. The loan goes to the developer and they pay the loan back.
[quote][p][bold]From beer to uncertainty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Saltdean Resident[/bold] wrote: I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.[/p][/quote]No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax. Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers? I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment?[/p][/quote]No, you are wrong. The loan goes to the developer and they pay the loan back. Gribbet
  • Score: -2

11:47am Sat 26 Apr 14

Binnington says...

It's about time the seafront was pedestrianised. Take this opportunity!
It's about time the seafront was pedestrianised. Take this opportunity! Binnington
  • Score: -15

11:53am Sat 26 Apr 14

Old Ladys Gin says...

Morpheus wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings.
A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy.
I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness.
The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well.
A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.
I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned.
I'd imagine that a lot of properties in central Brighton and indeed Hove should be condemned.
So many must be damp or crumbling with old wooden windows that are rotten.
I wouldn't live in a basement flat in central Brighton nor a conversion as many of them have been poorly done.
Entire streets need hucking out and starting again.
[quote][p][bold]Morpheus[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: Walking along the seafront yesterday gave an opportunity to look at the buildings. A great many are in a very poor state of repair including The Grand; the outside of which is filthy. I'd go as far as to say that on the seafront and the streets leading to it many of the buildings are so derelict that flattening them would be a kindness. The rusty skeletal remnants of the West pier don't exactly set the scene off well. A vast amount of investment and renewal is long overdue.[/p][/quote]I agree. It is always the same in Brighton when money is short. The first cuts are to maintenance. The sea front is now a disgrace in many areas. I was in a bar in East Street a few days ago looking out at the absolutely dreadful state of flats above the shops. I saw a woman with a baby in one window of a flat that looked as though it should be condemned.[/p][/quote]I'd imagine that a lot of properties in central Brighton and indeed Hove should be condemned. So many must be damp or crumbling with old wooden windows that are rotten. I wouldn't live in a basement flat in central Brighton nor a conversion as many of them have been poorly done. Entire streets need hucking out and starting again. Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: 3

12:03pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Every week the slow decline of the city is reported in the national press. This must be having a serious impact on revenues and visitor numbers to the city.
Last Saturday I walked along the seafront at 1pm and it was dead, absolutely dead. It was Easter weekend and the city was eerily quiet with the wheel was spinning empty, and as others have said, the buildings looking tired.
The prime located terraces bar and grill is now empty and derelict, other shops along there had rollers pulled down shut and the Mariner pub is an eyesore as it's boarded up.
It really is time to call an early election and get some new faces into the council with more business acumen before the city's reputation is damaged irreversibly.
Every week the slow decline of the city is reported in the national press. This must be having a serious impact on revenues and visitor numbers to the city. Last Saturday I walked along the seafront at 1pm and it was dead, absolutely dead. It was Easter weekend and the city was eerily quiet with the wheel was spinning empty, and as others have said, the buildings looking tired. The prime located terraces bar and grill is now empty and derelict, other shops along there had rollers pulled down shut and the Mariner pub is an eyesore as it's boarded up. It really is time to call an early election and get some new faces into the council with more business acumen before the city's reputation is damaged irreversibly. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 19

12:05pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Saltdean Resident says...

From beer to uncertainty wrote:
Saltdean Resident wrote:
I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.
No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax.
Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers?
I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment?
I'm no expert but as far as I know the loan is repaid through revenue from the tower, yes if it all goes tits up I'm sure we will end up paying something. The point I was making is that the money can not be used for anything else.
[quote][p][bold]From beer to uncertainty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Saltdean Resident[/bold] wrote: I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.[/p][/quote]No, you are wrong. It's a loan that has to be paid back through council tax. Most other, non-dysfunctional, councils taking out these loans are using them to invest in infrastructure and shared amenities. As far as I know these loans were not intended for risky investments into vanity projects that can't raise private investment to cover them...possibly because private investors are not bonkers? I'm genuinely surprised the Green and Tory councillors aren't trying to get the £36 million loan to buy lottery scratch cards...at least it would be a one-off loss to be repayed from council tax. The maintenance and associated costs for the tower will be an ongoing and added detriment?[/p][/quote]I'm no expert but as far as I know the loan is repaid through revenue from the tower, yes if it all goes tits up I'm sure we will end up paying something. The point I was making is that the money can not be used for anything else. Saltdean Resident
  • Score: 2

12:44pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Mr chock says...

wexler53 wrote:
If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it.
ohh WOT ? Laurence Hill, manager of the Fortune of War, said: "We had builders working to shore up a fire exit at the back of the pub.


"They took out a part of ceiling and then loads of rubble just came down.

so the morons on the council that have approved the i360 project are now getting the blame for over 90 years of NATURAL decay of the structures along the main coastal parts of Brighton ??

actually if you noticed almost anything built in the last 20 years does not seem to last as long as it did in the 1900's . take a look at the buildings at the Brighton Marina built with the same rusty metal cement with rusty rebar support as the now demolished Tricorn center " concrete cancer ..." do the builders ever learn
[quote][p][bold]wexler53[/bold] wrote: If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it.[/p][/quote]ohh WOT ? Laurence Hill, manager of the Fortune of War, said: "We had builders working to shore up a fire exit at the back of the pub. "They took out a part of ceiling and then loads of rubble just came down. so the morons on the council that have approved the i360 project are now getting the blame for over 90 years of NATURAL decay of the structures along the main coastal parts of Brighton ?? actually if you noticed almost anything built in the last 20 years does not seem to last as long as it did in the 1900's . take a look at the buildings at the Brighton Marina built with the same rusty metal cement with rusty rebar support as the now demolished Tricorn center " concrete cancer ..." do the builders ever learn Mr chock
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Mr chock says...

Binnington wrote:
It's about time the seafront was pedestrianised. Take this opportunity!
the seafront is pedestrianised .. you mean the coast road ?
thats 15 meters inland and a 4 meters above the old victorian beach
the road is all "victorian man made ... bont any of you remember the beachfront was all re developed long long ago by the victorians .. find a book called Sussex Through Time its lovely .. Publisher: Amberley Publishing
Published: 28 April 2014
ISBN: 9781445609003
[quote][p][bold]Binnington[/bold] wrote: It's about time the seafront was pedestrianised. Take this opportunity![/p][/quote]the seafront is pedestrianised .. you mean the coast road ? thats 15 meters inland and a 4 meters above the old victorian beach the road is all "victorian man made ... bont any of you remember the beachfront was all re developed long long ago by the victorians .. find a book called Sussex Through Time its lovely .. Publisher: Amberley Publishing Published: 28 April 2014 ISBN: 9781445609003 Mr chock
  • Score: 7

1:02pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Goldenwight says...

Eugenius wrote:
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
Amazing isn't it? We have a whole bunch of internet trolls who will spend hours wandering around different IP addresses giving their own posts positive scores. And at the same timne we have a small number of petty minded individuals who appear to live on the Planet Zog who will negatvely rate sensible and thoughtful ones.

Fairl Play Eugenius. Well phrased and above all SENSIBLE. Lets see if I can achieve a lower score than you, eh?
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.[/p][/quote]Amazing isn't it? We have a whole bunch of internet trolls who will spend hours wandering around different IP addresses giving their own posts positive scores. And at the same timne we have a small number of petty minded individuals who appear to live on the Planet Zog who will negatvely rate sensible and thoughtful ones. Fairl Play Eugenius. Well phrased and above all SENSIBLE. Lets see if I can achieve a lower score than you, eh? Goldenwight
  • Score: -11

1:14pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Goldenwight says...

Eugenius wrote:
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
Amazing isn't it? We have a whole bunch of internet trolls who will spend hours wandering around different IP addresses giving their own posts positive scores. And at the same timne we have a small number of petty minded individuals who appear to live on the Planet Zog who will negatvely rate sensible and thoughtful ones.

Fairl Play Eugenius. Well phrased and above all SENSIBLE. Lets see if I can achieve a lower score than you, eh?
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.[/p][/quote]Amazing isn't it? We have a whole bunch of internet trolls who will spend hours wandering around different IP addresses giving their own posts positive scores. And at the same timne we have a small number of petty minded individuals who appear to live on the Planet Zog who will negatvely rate sensible and thoughtful ones. Fairl Play Eugenius. Well phrased and above all SENSIBLE. Lets see if I can achieve a lower score than you, eh? Goldenwight
  • Score: -8

2:40pm Sat 26 Apr 14

PorkyChopper says...

Eugenius wrote:
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises.

Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
So if it isn't legal to borrow money unless it's for a profit making venture, then why is the i360 getting funding? No way will it make a profit, the figures are fiddled and the whoever came up with them should be under investigation for fraud.
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.[/p][/quote]So if it isn't legal to borrow money unless it's for a profit making venture, then why is the i360 getting funding? No way will it make a profit, the figures are fiddled and the whoever came up with them should be under investigation for fraud. PorkyChopper
  • Score: 15

4:04pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Ian Killmister ( lemme) says...

The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme
The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme Ian Killmister ( lemme)
  • Score: 16

4:07pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Ian Killmister ( lemme) says...

Oh and remember , the council were FORCED to borrow 30 million to do up 499 council homes . What about the other 11,500 flats and houses ? YEARS upon YEARS of neglect . Bill Randall , one among many , should be ASHAMED of his LEGACY .
Oh and remember , the council were FORCED to borrow 30 million to do up 499 council homes . What about the other 11,500 flats and houses ? YEARS upon YEARS of neglect . Bill Randall , one among many , should be ASHAMED of his LEGACY . Ian Killmister ( lemme)
  • Score: 10

4:26pm Sat 26 Apr 14

wippasnapper says...

O’ dear more disruption to B&H duo to A section of Brighton’s seafront that could be closed for weeks after the road collapsed into a pub in the historic arches below. A lack of money spent over the years to maintain Brighton Victorian seafront and sins the greens have been in power of our finances less has been spent where it has been needed most but we can’t put the blame solely on the greens as labor and the Conservative’s nether spent money on keeping the Victorian seafront in good reaper, it would seem regardless of the party running our city they all have a lack of common sense to see a lack of care to our Victorian seafront stretcher needs constant Maintenon’s to keep it looking spectacular for many century’s to come.
A history of Brighton through the years: http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Buildings_a
nd_architecture_of_B
righton_and_Hove
O’ dear more disruption to B&H duo to A section of Brighton’s seafront that could be closed for weeks after the road collapsed into a pub in the historic arches below. A lack of money spent over the years to maintain Brighton Victorian seafront and sins the greens have been in power of our finances less has been spent where it has been needed most but we can’t put the blame solely on the greens as labor and the Conservative’s nether spent money on keeping the Victorian seafront in good reaper, it would seem regardless of the party running our city they all have a lack of common sense to see a lack of care to our Victorian seafront stretcher needs constant Maintenon’s to keep it looking spectacular for many century’s to come. A history of Brighton through the years: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Buildings_a nd_architecture_of_B righton_and_Hove wippasnapper
  • Score: 2

5:25pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Andy R says...

wexler53 wrote:
If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it.
Yeah....150 years the Greens have had to sort this out.....oh.....
[quote][p][bold]wexler53[/bold] wrote: If ever there was proof the city is run by morons, this and the i360 is it.[/p][/quote]Yeah....150 years the Greens have had to sort this out.....oh..... Andy R
  • Score: 3

5:31pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Zeta Function says...

Ian Killmister ( lemme) wrote:
The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme
They could pull down the council tower blocks too and build low rise.
[quote][p][bold]Ian Killmister ( lemme)[/bold] wrote: The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme[/p][/quote]They could pull down the council tower blocks too and build low rise. Zeta Function
  • Score: 5

6:21pm Sat 26 Apr 14

missileman says...

Good Old Argus - Seafront Closed for Months.

!. Get in Railtrack
2. Pay for it with parking fines.
Good Old Argus - Seafront Closed for Months. !. Get in Railtrack 2. Pay for it with parking fines. missileman
  • Score: 3

6:24pm Sat 26 Apr 14

missileman says...

Good Old ARGUS "Closed for weeks"

1. Bring in Railtrack
2. Pay for it with parking fines.
3. Bin The Tower Idea .... No Cost Benefit Analysis will ever show it is wortwhile.
Good Old ARGUS "Closed for weeks" 1. Bring in Railtrack 2. Pay for it with parking fines. 3. Bin The Tower Idea .... No Cost Benefit Analysis will ever show it is wortwhile. missileman
  • Score: 3

6:28pm Sat 26 Apr 14

missileman says...

My last effort edited ....

3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further.
My last effort edited .... 3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further. missileman
  • Score: 4

6:34pm Sat 26 Apr 14

missileman says...

Martha Gunn wrote:
Scrap the vanity projects and get on with the essentials.

And apply the same principle to collecting the rubbish and recycling.

No more Greenspeak - we want our city back!
The Greens will argue this has been caused by the threat of future fracking.

Perhaps we could cycle down and dump some of the rubbish in the hole?
[quote][p][bold]Martha Gunn[/bold] wrote: Scrap the vanity projects and get on with the essentials. And apply the same principle to collecting the rubbish and recycling. No more Greenspeak - we want our city back![/p][/quote]The Greens will argue this has been caused by the threat of future fracking. Perhaps we could cycle down and dump some of the rubbish in the hole? missileman
  • Score: 4

6:55pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Mr chock says...

Zeta Function wrote:
Ian Killmister ( lemme) wrote:
The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme
They could pull down the council tower blocks too and build low rise.
wow thats good idea low rise homes with little parking spaces just on a small part of outer brighton .. Ovingdean .. Lightwood Strategic want to build the homes between Ovingdean and Woodingdean YES PLEASE more cheap homes ... and little extra road infrastructure to cope the woodingdean to Falmer road is HORRENDOUS ..
[quote][p][bold]Zeta Function[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian Killmister ( lemme)[/bold] wrote: The WHOLE of the UK is victorian ! The newest addition was the MOTORWAY over FIFTY years ago . The WHOLE seafront from King Alfred to the Marina needs to be pedestrianised COMPLETELY with a PROPER motorway AROUND BRIGHTON . THEN , the residents of this beautiful TOWN ( we have no cathedral and less than 300k residents ) MAY even want to go down the seafront THEMSELVES . The COUNCIL should be looking after the people ! number ONE priority . Oh and get rid of that BLOODY eyesore , the West Pier , AND the bloody useless west pier trust . over THIRTY years guys . AND NO 360i . luv lemme[/p][/quote]They could pull down the council tower blocks too and build low rise.[/p][/quote]wow thats good idea low rise homes with little parking spaces just on a small part of outer brighton .. Ovingdean .. Lightwood Strategic want to build the homes between Ovingdean and Woodingdean YES PLEASE more cheap homes ... and little extra road infrastructure to cope the woodingdean to Falmer road is HORRENDOUS .. Mr chock
  • Score: 1

7:27pm Sat 26 Apr 14

graham_Seagull says...

missileman wrote:
My last effort edited ....

3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further.
The road system is by and large the same road system in place as 50 years ago.
There isn't space to increase the road capacity.
The road capacity is full.
There are far too many vehicles - that's you and me driving, WE are the problem there.
[quote][p][bold]missileman[/bold] wrote: My last effort edited .... 3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further.[/p][/quote]The road system is by and large the same road system in place as 50 years ago. There isn't space to increase the road capacity. The road capacity is full. There are far too many vehicles - that's you and me driving, WE are the problem there. graham_Seagull
  • Score: 1

7:39pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Metro Reader says...

The greens are to blame, closing every road they can and pushing all the traffic on the same road.
They wanted a congestion charge, so are CAUSING the congestion to get one.
The greens are to blame, closing every road they can and pushing all the traffic on the same road. They wanted a congestion charge, so are CAUSING the congestion to get one. Metro Reader
  • Score: 8

9:03pm Sat 26 Apr 14

cynic_the says...

Meanwhile, in other news....

The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day...

... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch.

Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic
Meanwhile, in other news.... The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day... ... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch. Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic cynic_the
  • Score: 8

9:22pm Sat 26 Apr 14

saveHOVE says...

Saltdean Resident wrote:
I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.
Money borrowed from, and agreed by, the Public Works Loan Board for use on a specific project cannot be used on another project. All grants for spending on - say Valley Gardens regeneration - has to be used for THAT and cannot be diverted.

The i360 loan should not be granted by the PWLB as repayment of it is almost certainly not going to come for i360 profits, but rather from raised taxes because i360 does not live up to the hype. And the i360 should not be built. But BHCC is free to go to the PWLB any number of times for loans for specific other infrastructure projects. They could ask for a loan to rebuild the arches, to replace King Alfred....any number of things that do not risk taxpayers having to bail out loan repayment.

If you agree that the i360 should not be given public money to be built, please sign this petition addressed to the PWLB asking they not lend the money to BHCC to lend on...tinyurl.com/o9t
76xh
[quote][p][bold]Saltdean Resident[/bold] wrote: I'm no apologist for the council but it seems as though there is misunderstanding about the funding for the tower, which I don't support. The money for the tower and the works being done has not come from council coffers but from a central government fund for such projects, it can not be used on anything else. Don't build the tower then no money. I personally think central government should release the money for the whole seafront, but can't see this happening as it would be very difficult in raising the funds to repay the loan.[/p][/quote]Money borrowed from, and agreed by, the Public Works Loan Board for use on a specific project cannot be used on another project. All grants for spending on - say Valley Gardens regeneration - has to be used for THAT and cannot be diverted. The i360 loan should not be granted by the PWLB as repayment of it is almost certainly not going to come for i360 profits, but rather from raised taxes because i360 does not live up to the hype. And the i360 should not be built. But BHCC is free to go to the PWLB any number of times for loans for specific other infrastructure projects. They could ask for a loan to rebuild the arches, to replace King Alfred....any number of things that do not risk taxpayers having to bail out loan repayment. If you agree that the i360 should not be given public money to be built, please sign this petition addressed to the PWLB asking they not lend the money to BHCC to lend on...tinyurl.com/o9t 76xh saveHOVE
  • Score: 1

9:48pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Eugenius says...

cynic_the wrote:
Meanwhile, in other news....

The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day...

... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch.

Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic
Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks.
[quote][p][bold]cynic_the[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile, in other news.... The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day... ... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch. Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic[/p][/quote]Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks. Eugenius
  • Score: 3

10:22pm Sat 26 Apr 14

cynic_the says...

Eugenius wrote:
cynic_the wrote:
Meanwhile, in other news....

The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day...

... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch.

Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic
Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks.
Make sure you tell that to everyone that was planning to visit Brighton over the next few weeks / months....
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cynic_the[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile, in other news.... The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day... ... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch. Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic[/p][/quote]Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks.[/p][/quote]Make sure you tell that to everyone that was planning to visit Brighton over the next few weeks / months.... cynic_the
  • Score: 1

10:47pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Eugenius says...

cynic_the wrote:
Eugenius wrote:
cynic_the wrote:
Meanwhile, in other news....

The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day...

... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch.

Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic
Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks.
Make sure you tell that to everyone that was planning to visit Brighton over the next few weeks / months....
Why? What good will it do?
[quote][p][bold]cynic_the[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cynic_the[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile, in other news.... The NewsBBC article 'Brighton Seafront Safety Questioned' remains firmly in the top 10 most popular stories of the day... ... right at the start of the tourist season and just 1 week away from the first May bank holiday weekend. Ouch. Now I'm no Labour supporter, but the BBC's quote from Warren Morgan makes him sound like the voice of reason, whilst Ian Davey's retort (indirectly) implies that the Valley Gardens vanity project is more important than keeping the A259 fully open. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic[/p][/quote]Warren is talking out of his hat, as usual. Grants which are awarded for specific infrastructure projects won from a competitive bidding process cannot be reallocated to pay for regular roadworks.[/p][/quote]Make sure you tell that to everyone that was planning to visit Brighton over the next few weeks / months....[/p][/quote]Why? What good will it do? Eugenius
  • Score: 0

11:06pm Sat 26 Apr 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Read the Daily Mail website, there's a feature about the disaster the city has become because of the Greens.
Well that's another nail in the coffin for tourism just after Fridays national news coverage of the seafront being unsafe.
Businesses and the public can no longer tolerate this council and an election has to be called.
Read the Daily Mail website, there's a feature about the disaster the city has become because of the Greens. Well that's another nail in the coffin for tourism just after Fridays national news coverage of the seafront being unsafe. Businesses and the public can no longer tolerate this council and an election has to be called. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 5

2:06am Sun 27 Apr 14

Eugenius says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
Read the Daily Mail website, there's a feature about the disaster the city has become because of the Greens.
Well that's another nail in the coffin for tourism just after Fridays national news coverage of the seafront being unsafe.
Businesses and the public can no longer tolerate this council and an election has to be called.
To paraphrase the late John Smith, we're not really pitching our policies at Daily Mail readers...
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: Read the Daily Mail website, there's a feature about the disaster the city has become because of the Greens. Well that's another nail in the coffin for tourism just after Fridays national news coverage of the seafront being unsafe. Businesses and the public can no longer tolerate this council and an election has to be called.[/p][/quote]To paraphrase the late John Smith, we're not really pitching our policies at Daily Mail readers... Eugenius
  • Score: -4

8:48am Sun 27 Apr 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

You've missed the point Eugenius. Bad publicity affects tourism and business no matter where the information appears. It also gets shared in the fast moving media world.
We were all over BBC and ITV on Friday with news of traffic chaos and an unsafe seafront.
Terribly damaging. It's so sad to see the city in this state. I really feel for the traders.
You've missed the point Eugenius. Bad publicity affects tourism and business no matter where the information appears. It also gets shared in the fast moving media world. We were all over BBC and ITV on Friday with news of traffic chaos and an unsafe seafront. Terribly damaging. It's so sad to see the city in this state. I really feel for the traders. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 6

10:07am Sun 27 Apr 14

We love Red Billy says...

Ho, Ho Ian Davey is really sweating on this one with his full-some statement rather than the usual bland/ smug/ I'm not listening/ we are doing a wonderful job reply. Drinks at the bandstand on 5th May 6.00 pm to usher in the countdown for the last 365 days of green stupidity. All welcome including green councilors who would like help filling out their unemployment forms in advance.
Ho, Ho Ian Davey is really sweating on this one with his full-some statement rather than the usual bland/ smug/ I'm not listening/ we are doing a wonderful job reply. Drinks at the bandstand on 5th May 6.00 pm to usher in the countdown for the last 365 days of green stupidity. All welcome including green councilors who would like help filling out their unemployment forms in advance. We love Red Billy
  • Score: 3

4:51pm Sun 27 Apr 14

Just trying to earn a crust says...

Eugenius wrote:
Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises.

Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.
'Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment' Profit making investment? Hell has got more chance of freezing over than the i sore has of making a profit. What is the point of a large stick if the main road to it is unusable? This council couldn't even look after a town like Camberwick Green They should admit to the electorate they don't have the faintest idea what they are doing, and hand over to someone who does.
[quote][p][bold]Eugenius[/bold] wrote: Council is currently spending £2m a year maintaining the seafront road and rebuilding the arches around the West Pier. But this incident appears to have been caused by alterations within the Fortune of War premises. Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment. Revenue earned from the council's percentage of ticket sales on the other hand will come in handy for seafront repairs in future.[/p][/quote]'Not legally possible to borrow from Public Works Loan Board (i360 loan) to pay for seafront repairs as it has to be for a profit making investment' Profit making investment? Hell has got more chance of freezing over than the i sore has of making a profit. What is the point of a large stick if the main road to it is unusable? This council couldn't even look after a town like Camberwick Green They should admit to the electorate they don't have the faintest idea what they are doing, and hand over to someone who does. Just trying to earn a crust
  • Score: 2

8:57am Mon 28 Apr 14

Joshiman says...

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2613905/Lunacy-town-
turned-green-A-ban-b
acon-butties-Traffic
-calming-sheep-Trans
gender-toilets-Sound
s-like-send-In-fact-
real-story-Britains-
loopiest-party-took-
Brighton.html

Just been sent this link by email from a friend in Germany.Seems we are a laughing stock in Europe as well.
http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2613905/Lunacy-town- turned-green-A-ban-b acon-butties-Traffic -calming-sheep-Trans gender-toilets-Sound s-like-send-In-fact- real-story-Britains- loopiest-party-took- Brighton.html Just been sent this link by email from a friend in Germany.Seems we are a laughing stock in Europe as well. Joshiman
  • Score: 2

1:58pm Mon 28 Apr 14

Mr chock says...

Joshiman wrote:
http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/news/article-

2613905/Lunacy-town-

turned-green-A-ban-b

acon-butties-Traffic

-calming-sheep-Trans

gender-toilets-Sound

s-like-send-In-fact-

real-story-Britains-

loopiest-party-took-

Brighton.html

Just been sent this link by email from a friend in Germany.Seems we are a laughing stock in Europe as well.
~ O M G Brighton in that Mail article sound so bad... i like bacon butties "why is just monday Meat free" ? in that article ? also the Seven Dials works a lot smoother now the bigger round about looks like it should have made things worse but its made the traffic and for me on my bike a LOT lot nicer ..Back to the hole on the coast road .. Brighton council gets a fair bit of cash from ALL the users of the arches now parts need to be massively MASSIVELY structurally altered not just a bit of concrete in the holes . i counted the properties " occupied arches " and there is actually more empty shops plenty of empty vacant retail outlets back from the seafront .... take a look at the state of Preston street that old ventilation company premises been empty for many many months ideal location for Fortune of war to re locate to .. ?
[quote][p][bold]Joshiman[/bold] wrote: http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2613905/Lunacy-town- turned-green-A-ban-b acon-butties-Traffic -calming-sheep-Trans gender-toilets-Sound s-like-send-In-fact- real-story-Britains- loopiest-party-took- Brighton.html Just been sent this link by email from a friend in Germany.Seems we are a laughing stock in Europe as well.[/p][/quote]~ O M G Brighton in that Mail article sound so bad... i like bacon butties "why is just monday Meat free" ? in that article ? also the Seven Dials works a lot smoother now the bigger round about looks like it should have made things worse but its made the traffic and for me on my bike a LOT lot nicer ..Back to the hole on the coast road .. Brighton council gets a fair bit of cash from ALL the users of the arches now parts need to be massively MASSIVELY structurally altered not just a bit of concrete in the holes . i counted the properties " occupied arches " and there is actually more empty shops plenty of empty vacant retail outlets back from the seafront .... take a look at the state of Preston street that old ventilation company premises been empty for many many months ideal location for Fortune of war to re locate to .. ? Mr chock
  • Score: 0

12:47pm Tue 29 Apr 14

Automaton says...

graham_Seagull wrote:
missileman wrote:
My last effort edited ....

3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further.
The road system is by and large the same road system in place as 50 years ago.
There isn't space to increase the road capacity.
The road capacity is full.
There are far too many vehicles - that's you and me driving, WE are the problem there.
And building so many new houses and flats in Brighton and Hove certainly isnt going to improve the problem.
[quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]missileman[/bold] wrote: My last effort edited .... 3. No cost benefit analysis will ever conclude its value for money. The road system has been savaged by the Green Party and can not cope with a single incident. It took 2 hours to get from Shoreham and 1 hour 20 from Hove Park by bus on Friday. 2 years construction of this folly will cripple the roads further.[/p][/quote]The road system is by and large the same road system in place as 50 years ago. There isn't space to increase the road capacity. The road capacity is full. There are far too many vehicles - that's you and me driving, WE are the problem there.[/p][/quote]And building so many new houses and flats in Brighton and Hove certainly isnt going to improve the problem. Automaton
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree