The ArgusUnqualified officers working in CID (From The Argus)

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Unqualified officers working in CID

The Argus: Unqualified officers working in CID Unqualified officers working in CID

Serious crimes are being investigated by unqualified officers due to a “critical shortage of police officers”, The Argus can reveal.

Officers are being drafted in to Brighton CID without having sat their detective exams, which is a national requirement for detectives working in the department.

CID officers deal with serious crimes such as rapes and murders.

A Detective Constable working in Brighton CID contacted The Argus and described how there was a “critical shortage of police officers across the entire Brighton and Hove division”.

The DC said: “Officers are having to be drafted in from other departments with almost no notice and with many of these officers not even having passed the detectives exam - a national requirement - and with little or no additional training to prepare them for dealing with the serious crimes investigated by CID.

“It is not uncommon to see my colleagues on the verge of tears because they are under so much pressure and stress and have more work than they can cope with.

“This is nothing short of scandalous and not only puts the public at increased risk but the officers themselves.”

A spokesman for Sussex Police admitted there were officers working in CID without the relevant qualifications but that they are all “experienced investigators”.

The spokesman also admitted the department was not operating at a 100% staff level.

Superintendent Steve Whitton said: "Policing, by its very nature, requires a flexible approach.

“Often this means moving officers, all of whom are trained and competent to investigate crime, into different departments.

“This is why we have recently temporarily moved a number of people into our CID to ensure that we can continue to respond effectively to crimes such as rape and sexual assault.

"We are going through challenging times at the moment and having to make some difficult decisions regarding our resources but, as with all our decision making, the needs of the public always come first.”

Sussex Police and Crime Commissioner Katy Bourne has assured the public that their safety remains the precedence.

She said: "The number one priority in the Police and Crime Plan will always remain the same - keeping the people of Sussex safe.

"Where and how officers are deployed is an operational decision made by divisional commanders in order to meet local policing demands and priorities.

"Should I find any evidence that officer and staff resilience is affecting police performance I will hold the Chief Constable to account for this on behalf of Sussex residents."

Comments (20)

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7:13am Wed 14 May 14

We love Red Billy says...

In theory there should be 30 full police officers on duty for Brighton / Hove in any onr shift period. This includes senior officers who do not patrol. But take out those training, sick, on maternity leave and secondment you have about 20 officers per shift. This is why when the blackshirts were rioting in town recently we had officers brought in from Cornwall. I for one think we deserve more.
In theory there should be 30 full police officers on duty for Brighton / Hove in any onr shift period. This includes senior officers who do not patrol. But take out those training, sick, on maternity leave and secondment you have about 20 officers per shift. This is why when the blackshirts were rioting in town recently we had officers brought in from Cornwall. I for one think we deserve more. We love Red Billy
  • Score: 34

7:31am Wed 14 May 14

worthingite says...

Policing has changed, there is no real Sherlock Holmes detective work anymore,just plenty of CPS pen pushing. The only way to get a conviction these days is a positive ID by hopefully more than more person with good eyesight, CCTV putting them at the scene of a crime,cell site analysis (phone records), a DNA match or guilty plea!

Real policing finished 20 years ago......
Policing has changed, there is no real Sherlock Holmes detective work anymore,just plenty of CPS pen pushing. The only way to get a conviction these days is a positive ID by hopefully more than more person with good eyesight, CCTV putting them at the scene of a crime,cell site analysis (phone records), a DNA match or guilty plea! Real policing finished 20 years ago...... worthingite
  • Score: 21

8:43am Wed 14 May 14

clubrob6 says...

This does not surprise me,i also think the 13% drop in crime is fiddled figures just to justify police cuts.I think crime has NOT gone down its just that we have fewer police on duty especially after dark to record any.In Hove we used to often see a police car at night which gave a sense of security but now with the police station closed down and only part time in council offices we are on our own.The public cant easily report crime as the part time police station is closed at night in hove,plus as I found when reported a crime on the police online form you get a email saying they have received the report then that's it you hear no more.Luckily the nightlife now provides its own private security backup for doorstaff in effect our police are partially privatised.Its pointless reporting anything that's not serious to our police they simply don't have to numbers to respond.
This does not surprise me,i also think the 13% drop in crime is fiddled figures just to justify police cuts.I think crime has NOT gone down its just that we have fewer police on duty especially after dark to record any.In Hove we used to often see a police car at night which gave a sense of security but now with the police station closed down and only part time in council offices we are on our own.The public cant easily report crime as the part time police station is closed at night in hove,plus as I found when reported a crime on the police online form you get a email saying they have received the report then that's it you hear no more.Luckily the nightlife now provides its own private security backup for doorstaff in effect our police are partially privatised.Its pointless reporting anything that's not serious to our police they simply don't have to numbers to respond. clubrob6
  • Score: 12

9:08am Wed 14 May 14

rayellerton says...

Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation...
Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation... rayellerton
  • Score: 29

9:44am Wed 14 May 14

Goldenwight says...

"Should I find any evidence that officer and staff resilience is affecting police performance I will hold the Chief Constable to account for this on behalf of Sussex residents."

You won't find it, because you will sit on your backside all day avoiding looking for it to the point of closing your eyes and looking the other way. After all, if they had too many competent officers they might pay a bit more attention to your expenses claims...
"Should I find any evidence that officer and staff resilience is affecting police performance I will hold the Chief Constable to account for this on behalf of Sussex residents." You won't find it, because you will sit on your backside all day avoiding looking for it to the point of closing your eyes and looking the other way. After all, if they had too many competent officers they might pay a bit more attention to your expenses claims... Goldenwight
  • Score: 22

9:54am Wed 14 May 14

mimseycal says...

Goldenwight wrote:
"Should I find any evidence that officer and staff resilience is affecting police performance I will hold the Chief Constable to account for this on behalf of Sussex residents."

You won't find it, because you will sit on your backside all day avoiding looking for it to the point of closing your eyes and looking the other way. After all, if they had too many competent officers they might pay a bit more attention to your expenses claims...
Exactly ... Katy Bourne is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

On the whole, I am dissatisfied with policing here. However that has nothing to do with any lack in the officers I have met and more with the prioritisation that is handed down by management which includes the aforementioned Katy Bourne!
[quote][p][bold]Goldenwight[/bold] wrote: "Should I find any evidence that officer and staff resilience is affecting police performance I will hold the Chief Constable to account for this on behalf of Sussex residents." You won't find it, because you will sit on your backside all day avoiding looking for it to the point of closing your eyes and looking the other way. After all, if they had too many competent officers they might pay a bit more attention to your expenses claims...[/p][/quote]Exactly ... Katy Bourne is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. On the whole, I am dissatisfied with policing here. However that has nothing to do with any lack in the officers I have met and more with the prioritisation that is handed down by management which includes the aforementioned Katy Bourne! mimseycal
  • Score: 13

12:42pm Wed 14 May 14

Mr chock says...

rayellerton wrote:
Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation...
yes this did sound right.. BUT why did they need so many CID ..? Officers are being drafted in to Brighton CID without having sat their detective exams, which is a national requirement for detectives working in the department.is it not true that crime figers are redusing ? MASSIVELY falling violent crime and CCTV is helping resolve so many crimes maybe cid are busy looking at video footage ?
[quote][p][bold]rayellerton[/bold] wrote: Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation...[/p][/quote]yes this did sound right.. BUT why did they need so many CID ..? Officers are being drafted in to Brighton CID without having sat their detective exams, which is a national requirement for detectives working in the department.is it not true that crime figers are redusing ? MASSIVELY falling violent crime and CCTV is helping resolve so many crimes maybe cid are busy looking at video footage ? Mr chock
  • Score: -1

2:38pm Wed 14 May 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

ZeeGee..ffs wrote:
Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs.

Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.
If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague.

Don't you live in Burgess Hell?
[quote][p][bold]ZeeGee..ffs[/bold] wrote: Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs. Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.[/p][/quote]If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague. Don't you live in Burgess Hell? thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 1

2:59pm Wed 14 May 14

getThisCoalitionOut says...

They should get rid of useless Katy Bourne and her under worked deputy and that would provide a further 8 officers.
They should get rid of useless Katy Bourne and her under worked deputy and that would provide a further 8 officers. getThisCoalitionOut
  • Score: 14

3:03pm Wed 14 May 14

ZeeGee, ffs says...

"If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. "

Do you have as link to those figures?

What percentage of them is committed by B&H residents?
"If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. " Do you have as link to those figures? What percentage of them is committed by B&H residents? ZeeGee, ffs
  • Score: -2

4:16pm Wed 14 May 14

a person says...

ZeeGee..ffs wrote:
Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs.

Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.
Well the police do seem to spend a lot of time
with / checking up on / moving !!! on
the travelling community .
That seem to travel a few miles every few weeks.
[quote][p][bold]ZeeGee..ffs[/bold] wrote: Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs. Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.[/p][/quote]Well the police do seem to spend a lot of time with / checking up on / moving !!! on the travelling community . That seem to travel a few miles every few weeks. a person
  • Score: -1

6:11pm Wed 14 May 14

Hove Actually says...

Whats wrong with PCSO's responding to Rape and Murder calls and why their at it maybe they could carry out the roles of Chief Constable and Crime commisioner .......
There you go Brighton & Hove policed for £31.50p can I have my council tax back now please?
Whats wrong with PCSO's responding to Rape and Murder calls and why their at it maybe they could carry out the roles of Chief Constable and Crime commisioner ....... There you go Brighton & Hove policed for £31.50p can I have my council tax back now please? Hove Actually
  • Score: 1

6:14pm Wed 14 May 14

rayellerton says...

Mr chock wrote:
rayellerton wrote:
Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation...
yes this did sound right.. BUT why did they need so many CID ..? Officers are being drafted in to Brighton CID without having sat their detective exams, which is a national requirement for detectives working in the department.is it not true that crime figers are redusing ? MASSIVELY falling violent crime and CCTV is helping resolve so many crimes maybe cid are busy looking at video footage ?
Civilian employees can trawl through CCTV, which is part of the problem...It produces reactive policing and does nothing to reduce crime. If there were less senior officers perhaps there would be more money to put boots on the street and have a proper quota of qualified CID officers...
[quote][p][bold]Mr chock[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayellerton[/bold] wrote: Too many overpaid/over promoted Chiefs and not enough Indians. A common problem in any public sector organisation...[/p][/quote]yes this did sound right.. BUT why did they need so many CID ..? Officers are being drafted in to Brighton CID without having sat their detective exams, which is a national requirement for detectives working in the department.is it not true that crime figers are redusing ? MASSIVELY falling violent crime and CCTV is helping resolve so many crimes maybe cid are busy looking at video footage ?[/p][/quote]Civilian employees can trawl through CCTV, which is part of the problem...It produces reactive policing and does nothing to reduce crime. If there were less senior officers perhaps there would be more money to put boots on the street and have a proper quota of qualified CID officers... rayellerton
  • Score: 3

8:09pm Wed 14 May 14

cleggandbacon says...

Is it any wonder there is a critical shortage of police officers in Brighton & Hove when half of those that are available are over at WATERHALL making sure illegal travellers pitched there are nice and comfy.
And if the ARGUS had any spine they would have opened a site for readers to comment on the latest merry-go-round of travellers just settled in at WATERHALL.
Is it any wonder there is a critical shortage of police officers in Brighton & Hove when half of those that are available are over at WATERHALL making sure illegal travellers pitched there are nice and comfy. And if the ARGUS had any spine they would have opened a site for readers to comment on the latest merry-go-round of travellers just settled in at WATERHALL. cleggandbacon
  • Score: 6

8:23pm Wed 14 May 14

blardeblar says...

I think it shows resourcefulness, if there aren't enough detectives what should they do? Not investigate crime?
I think it shows resourcefulness, if there aren't enough detectives what should they do? Not investigate crime? blardeblar
  • Score: 2

8:37pm Wed 14 May 14

We love Red Billy says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
ZeeGee..ffs wrote:
Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs.

Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.
If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague.

Don't you live in Burgess Hell?
Thought that was Burgess Heil.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ZeeGee..ffs[/bold] wrote: Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs. Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.[/p][/quote]If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague. Don't you live in Burgess Hell?[/p][/quote]Thought that was Burgess Heil. We love Red Billy
  • Score: 2

10:21pm Wed 14 May 14

MPC1000 says...

This, to coin a phrase, is not rocket science..

The staffing shortage started 5 years ago when recruiting was stopped, to fund the £50 million savings that the government ordered. Those who retired / resigned or were sacked were not replaced.

Since then, like many other workers, pensions and working conditions have been immorally altered - contracts, promises and agreements have all been broken.
Unlike other workers, police do not have the right to strike or take action of any kind. So they've done the only thing they could do - left the service.
*That* is why there are untrained officers in CID.
This, to coin a phrase, is not rocket science.. The staffing shortage started 5 years ago when recruiting was stopped, to fund the £50 million savings that the government ordered. Those who retired / resigned or were sacked were not replaced. Since then, like many other workers, pensions and working conditions have been immorally altered - contracts, promises and agreements have all been broken. Unlike other workers, police do not have the right to strike or take action of any kind. So they've done the only thing they could do - left the service. *That* is why there are untrained officers in CID. MPC1000
  • Score: 6

10:52pm Wed 14 May 14

Loujam says...

There is no Chief Constable at the moment Ms Bourne!
There is no Chief Constable at the moment Ms Bourne! Loujam
  • Score: 1

11:34pm Wed 14 May 14

ZeeGee, ffs says...

We love Red Billy wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
ZeeGee..ffs wrote:
Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs.

Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.
If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague.

Don't you live in Burgess Hell?
Thought that was Burgess Heil.
I think you'll find it's 'Hill'
[quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ZeeGee..ffs[/bold] wrote: Isn't it time someone made the obvious point that if the people of Brighton and Hove weren't committing so many crimes, then we wouldn't have this situation? And things like rent-a-mob turning up to jeer at EDL marches only added to the strain on police manning levels and costs. Blaming the police for their high work-load is like blaming the chicken when you've overcooked it.[/p][/quote]If you look at crime figures in B&H, a percentage is committed by people who live outside the area - eg London, Crawley, Worthing etc. It's part and parcel of being a tourist destination. Hence a large police presence in West St on a Saturday night. Somewhere most locals avoid like the plague. Don't you live in Burgess Hell?[/p][/quote]Thought that was Burgess Heil.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find it's 'Hill' ZeeGee, ffs
  • Score: -4

3:12pm Thu 15 May 14

Roundbill says...

What? I've been saying "Burgess Hole" all these years. Why did nobody correct me? I hate my friends sometimes.
What? I've been saying "Burgess Hole" all these years. Why did nobody correct me? I hate my friends sometimes. Roundbill
  • Score: 1

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