Have a say on 20mph zones

A map showing the rollout of the 20mph zone across Brighton and Hove

A map showing the rollout of the 20mph zone across Brighton and Hove

First published in News
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MORE 20mph zones could be rolled out across Brighton and Hove – and the city council wants the public’s views on the plans.

23,675 homes in Hangleton, Woodingdean, Ovingdean, Saltdean and Rottingdean will receive letters from Brighton and Hove City Council by next week.

The third phase roll-out could see the majority of roads in the neighbourhoods and villages reduced to 20mph.

Depending on the outcome of the consultation, the third phase could be introduced as early as next year.

It follows the first phase which saw most roads in the city centre reduced to 20mph back in April 2013.

In the second phase in June this year the speed limit of roads between Portslade in the west, Moulsecoomb and Whitehawk in the east and Coldean in the north, was also reduced.

The council has said early monitoring from phase one of the scheme shows a decrease in traffic speed on 74% of roads.

The number of collisions and the severity of casualties are also down where the new limit is in place.

Ian Davey, the council’s lead member for transport, urged residents to get behind the 20mph roll-out.

He said: “We’re seeing growing levels of support for 20mph as people understand the national research proving it to be safer.

“We’ve already seen the benefits of lower limits in central Brighton and Hove with fewer people being hurt on our roads.

“That means people can gradually feel safer on the streets where they live, making neighbourhoods more accessible and pleasant for everyone.

“I’d urge people to look at the evidence from the many towns and cities with 20mph and the positive evidence we already have here in Brighton and Hove - and support the proposals.”

Comments (153)

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8:33pm Thu 14 Aug 14

baldyfab says...

Concentrate on preventing the increasing number of violent crimes in the city or put money into repairing the shocking state of roads in and around the whole area rather than wasting everyone's time with these frankly pathetic 20mph restrictions. Reduce the limits to 10mph where schools and hospitals are but stop suffocating the rest of this great city.
Concentrate on preventing the increasing number of violent crimes in the city or put money into repairing the shocking state of roads in and around the whole area rather than wasting everyone's time with these frankly pathetic 20mph restrictions. Reduce the limits to 10mph where schools and hospitals are but stop suffocating the rest of this great city. baldyfab
  • Score: 146

9:08pm Thu 14 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

We all know that no one bothers with the new limits so don't waste the money with more signs etc. Please people, reply to these letters stating you are against the introduction of the 20mph limits in your area if you are because I have been told that with earlier consultations, if people were against them but didn't reply, their vote was considered to be for the new limits. The only reason there is a decrease in traffic speeds is because of the ridiculous congestion on the roads and the huge number of road works that seem to be happening at the moment. Oh, and the single lanes in Lewes Road that everyone knows has caused daily chaos.
We all know that no one bothers with the new limits so don't waste the money with more signs etc. Please people, reply to these letters stating you are against the introduction of the 20mph limits in your area if you are because I have been told that with earlier consultations, if people were against them but didn't reply, their vote was considered to be for the new limits. The only reason there is a decrease in traffic speeds is because of the ridiculous congestion on the roads and the huge number of road works that seem to be happening at the moment. Oh, and the single lanes in Lewes Road that everyone knows has caused daily chaos. DCCCCCC
  • Score: 114

9:43pm Thu 14 Aug 14

Bob_The_Ferret says...

The council has no interest in people's views and will push through whatever they can get away with, justifying it with their own propaganda and selective and manipulated statistics.
The council has no interest in people's views and will push through whatever they can get away with, justifying it with their own propaganda and selective and manipulated statistics. Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 127

7:00am Fri 15 Aug 14

Sir Prised says...

How about spending the money on providing economic parking? I wouldn't dream of shopping in Brighton. The place is an absolute nightmare. Of course, as with so much, the real issue is over-crowding but hell will freeze over before any government dare tackle that!
How about spending the money on providing economic parking? I wouldn't dream of shopping in Brighton. The place is an absolute nightmare. Of course, as with so much, the real issue is over-crowding but hell will freeze over before any government dare tackle that! Sir Prised
  • Score: 67

7:33am Fri 15 Aug 14

rogerthefish says...

Why bother with signs you've chocked the city to a standstill already, meanwhile the road collapse in May on the Seafront that's not been repaired is going to cost you a lot of votes...and hate towards those who work for the council, It sums up my views of overpaid lazy people who could not give a flying for the residents.
Why bother with signs you've chocked the city to a standstill already, meanwhile the road collapse in May on the Seafront that's not been repaired is going to cost you a lot of votes...and hate towards those who work for the council, It sums up my views of overpaid lazy people who could not give a flying for the residents. rogerthefish
  • Score: 81

7:42am Fri 15 Aug 14

Dr Wombleface says...

These statistics probably include the times when a queue of drivers wanting to go faster get stuck behind one of the few people going at 20mph. The police have said they won't enforce it, and it really is annoying. The greens seem hellbent on making as much of a mark on our city before they get booted out. What a shame they won't be remembered for sorting out the awful condition of many of our roads, just for painting a number 20 on them, and spending a small fortune on god knows how many road signs.
These statistics probably include the times when a queue of drivers wanting to go faster get stuck behind one of the few people going at 20mph. The police have said they won't enforce it, and it really is annoying. The greens seem hellbent on making as much of a mark on our city before they get booted out. What a shame they won't be remembered for sorting out the awful condition of many of our roads, just for painting a number 20 on them, and spending a small fortune on god knows how many road signs. Dr Wombleface
  • Score: 62

8:04am Fri 15 Aug 14

hoveguyactually says...

If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it. hoveguyactually
  • Score: 53

8:25am Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding. HJarrs
  • Score: -111

8:32am Fri 15 Aug 14

Bsxking1 says...

Complete waste of time by the green party who are also a complete waste of time..
Complete waste of time by the green party who are also a complete waste of time.. Bsxking1
  • Score: 67

8:32am Fri 15 Aug 14

leftysmellbags says...

Whats the point in asking the public for their view, the green party will not listen and just go ahead regardless.
Whats the point in asking the public for their view, the green party will not listen and just go ahead regardless. leftysmellbags
  • Score: 64

8:55am Fri 15 Aug 14

calro75 says...

I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the
20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad.
20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting.
I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the 20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad. 20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting. calro75
  • Score: 61

8:56am Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

Nothing like a flawed consultation - I live in Hangleton and yet I received nothing from the council about it ( then again they couldn't even collect my rubbish on time this week so why am I surprised ).

As usual The Argus have failed as well - they could at least put a link to any online access to the consultation.

I'll very expressing very strong views against and even if it comes in will ignore the limit when safe to do so as I already do in the current 20mph areas.
Nothing like a flawed consultation - I live in Hangleton and yet I received nothing from the council about it ( then again they couldn't even collect my rubbish on time this week so why am I surprised ). As usual The Argus have failed as well - they could at least put a link to any online access to the consultation. I'll very expressing very strong views against and even if it comes in will ignore the limit when safe to do so as I already do in the current 20mph areas. Fight_Back
  • Score: 50

8:57am Fri 15 Aug 14

DaRMiH says...

20 mph limits are a civilising influence. It would make sense to extend them to residential areas across the town.
20 mph limits are a civilising influence. It would make sense to extend them to residential areas across the town. DaRMiH
  • Score: -72

8:59am Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

To add - a quick look at the councils consultation portal and what a surprise - no online consultation.
To add - a quick look at the councils consultation portal and what a surprise - no online consultation. Fight_Back
  • Score: 54

9:03am Fri 15 Aug 14

rvic007uk says...

The greens need to stop wasting money on 20mph zones that could be better spent elsewhere. Transport is by far their weakest area and they need to sit down and work out a policy to help existing road users and incentivise limiting the amount of vehicles in the city centre, maybe making more use of the park and rides on the outskirts for tourists?

The statistics they throw around are worthless, as nearly every vehicle that drives in central Brighton (including cyclists, buses and police) ignore the 20mph speed limit, therefore the death rates and other statistics that they band around are actually indicative of people driving at 30mph. At the very most, the signs are just making people drive more carefully at 30mph, I dont think I have seen one vehicle driving at 20mph since the change came in over a year ago

Spend it on something else, like potholes, road maintanance, traffic flow. They have already wasted millions on the first failed phase that was implemented in April 2013.
The greens need to stop wasting money on 20mph zones that could be better spent elsewhere. Transport is by far their weakest area and they need to sit down and work out a policy to help existing road users and incentivise limiting the amount of vehicles in the city centre, maybe making more use of the park and rides on the outskirts for tourists? The statistics they throw around are worthless, as nearly every vehicle that drives in central Brighton (including cyclists, buses and police) ignore the 20mph speed limit, therefore the death rates and other statistics that they band around are actually indicative of people driving at 30mph. At the very most, the signs are just making people drive more carefully at 30mph, I dont think I have seen one vehicle driving at 20mph since the change came in over a year ago Spend it on something else, like potholes, road maintanance, traffic flow. They have already wasted millions on the first failed phase that was implemented in April 2013. rvic007uk
  • Score: 52

9:09am Fri 15 Aug 14

Old Ladys Gin says...

We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before.
Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking.

http://www.securite-
routiere.gouv.fr/con
naitre-les-regles/la
-route-la-rue/le-cod
e-de-la-rue2
We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before. Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking. http://www.securite- routiere.gouv.fr/con naitre-les-regles/la -route-la-rue/le-cod e-de-la-rue2 Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: -17

9:10am Fri 15 Aug 14

Old Ladys Gin says...

'Shows not shoes' - Freudian slip?
'Shows not shoes' - Freudian slip? Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: 0

9:14am Fri 15 Aug 14

G Wiley says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
@HJarrs - why do you persist in spinning this bovine excrement green-speak?

The green-led transport committee knew all along that the 20 mph zones would not be enforced - the police told you! But dopey Davey just carried of regardless...

And the speed limits were never planned to be enforced as the aim was only to get AVERAGE speed limits down to 25 mph.

Yes - speeds have reduced, but mainly due to all the increased congestion- not from the majority of council vehicles, buses, taxis and cars that continue to ignore them.

Yes - a few areas wanted to have their 30 mph zones converted to 20 mph, but these were minor exception to the majorities who did not want them.

Yes - and I would agree that lower speed limits do encourage pedestrians and cyclists to stop taking responsibility for taking care the roads and just crossing roads without looking and ignoring road signs.

Roll on May 2015 when we can get rid of these incompetent, idealistic green morons!
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - why do you persist in spinning this bovine excrement green-speak? The green-led transport committee knew all along that the 20 mph zones would not be enforced - the police told you! But dopey Davey just carried of regardless... And the speed limits were never planned to be enforced as the aim was only to get AVERAGE speed limits down to 25 mph. Yes - speeds have reduced, but mainly due to all the increased congestion- not from the majority of council vehicles, buses, taxis and cars that continue to ignore them. Yes - a few areas wanted to have their 30 mph zones converted to 20 mph, but these were minor exception to the majorities who did not want them. Yes - and I would agree that lower speed limits do encourage pedestrians and cyclists to stop taking responsibility for taking care the roads and just crossing roads without looking and ignoring road signs. Roll on May 2015 when we can get rid of these incompetent, idealistic green morons! G Wiley
  • Score: 47

9:15am Fri 15 Aug 14

PracticeNotTheories says...

The police will NOT enforce a 20MPH limit, unless there is evidence of deliberate offending and the limits are clear, and appropriate.(http://
www.acpo.police.uk/d
ocuments/uniformed/2
013/201305-uoba-join
ing-forces-safer-roa
ds.pdf)
Unfortunately a little round sign is not CLEAR designation, and, somewhere like the Old Steine, the limit is certainly NOT appropriate.
If the council had any idea, they would look at putting the money spent on the 20mph limit (£1.5m - http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/content/
parking-and-travel/t
ravel-transport-and-
road-safety/safer-st
reets-better-places) into ENFORCING the already adequate 30mph limit, which would have resulted in the same effect of reducing the overall speed of cars.
Unfortunately, not listening the AA evidence of INCREASING emissions, or the fact that the majority of people did not support the change (15000 respondents of 250000 population is less support than most RMT strikes get...) they blindly went along with it.
Out of interest, I have seen an increasing number of taxi drivers that will speed along above the speed limit along most of the roads. If they have impunity to do this, at risk of losing their jobs, what effect does that have on Joe Public's driving attitudes?
The police will NOT enforce a 20MPH limit, unless there is evidence of deliberate offending and the limits are clear, and appropriate.(http:// www.acpo.police.uk/d ocuments/uniformed/2 013/201305-uoba-join ing-forces-safer-roa ds.pdf) Unfortunately a little round sign is not CLEAR designation, and, somewhere like the Old Steine, the limit is certainly NOT appropriate. If the council had any idea, they would look at putting the money spent on the 20mph limit (£1.5m - http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/content/ parking-and-travel/t ravel-transport-and- road-safety/safer-st reets-better-places) into ENFORCING the already adequate 30mph limit, which would have resulted in the same effect of reducing the overall speed of cars. Unfortunately, not listening the AA evidence of INCREASING emissions, or the fact that the majority of people did not support the change (15000 respondents of 250000 population is less support than most RMT strikes get...) they blindly went along with it. Out of interest, I have seen an increasing number of taxi drivers that will speed along above the speed limit along most of the roads. If they have impunity to do this, at risk of losing their jobs, what effect does that have on Joe Public's driving attitudes? PracticeNotTheories
  • Score: 23

9:19am Fri 15 Aug 14

Mrbrightside1 says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Oh my life, you are hilarious
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Oh my life, you are hilarious Mrbrightside1
  • Score: 27

9:21am Fri 15 Aug 14

clarkebrighton says...

I thought the Idea of More Bus Lanes was to allow Buses/Taxis Quicker and Traffic free Lanes, So that we all start to use Public transport rather
than everybody using Cars, because its quicker !!
So what do they do Now, Introduce a 20mph so that Buses/Taxis will be
like the Rest of us, grinding to a halt.
I like most people fully understand the need for 20mph outside schools, Hospitals, Care Home, and other High Risk Area's.
but NOT a Blanket 20mph ALL over the City.
I thought the Idea of More Bus Lanes was to allow Buses/Taxis Quicker and Traffic free Lanes, So that we all start to use Public transport rather than everybody using Cars, because its quicker !! So what do they do Now, Introduce a 20mph so that Buses/Taxis will be like the Rest of us, grinding to a halt. I like most people fully understand the need for 20mph outside schools, Hospitals, Care Home, and other High Risk Area's. but NOT a Blanket 20mph ALL over the City. clarkebrighton
  • Score: 37

9:31am Fri 15 Aug 14

aat99 says...

One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference aat99
  • Score: -22

9:39am Fri 15 Aug 14

Notters_Seagull says...

More deaths from increased air pollution. Sounds like a good idea.
More deaths from increased air pollution. Sounds like a good idea. Notters_Seagull
  • Score: 25

9:51am Fri 15 Aug 14

G Wiley says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before.
Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking.

http://www.securite-

routiere.gouv.fr/con

naitre-les-regles/la

-route-la-rue/le-cod

e-de-la-rue2
@Old Ladys Gin - very interesting - isn't this the approach already followed in New Road and I've also seen it in Ashford where everybody shares the road with no segregation of different forms of traffic and every one does what they want.

However, IMHO it wouldn't work in the centre of Brighton where all the main roads are already full up with buses, and I believe the cyclists have started doing what they want and ignoring road signs already ;)
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before. Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking. http://www.securite- routiere.gouv.fr/con naitre-les-regles/la -route-la-rue/le-cod e-de-la-rue2[/p][/quote]@Old Ladys Gin - very interesting - isn't this the approach already followed in New Road and I've also seen it in Ashford where everybody shares the road with no segregation of different forms of traffic and every one does what they want. However, IMHO it wouldn't work in the centre of Brighton where all the main roads are already full up with buses, and I believe the cyclists have started doing what they want and ignoring road signs already ;) G Wiley
  • Score: 26

9:51am Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

clarkebrighton wrote:
I thought the Idea of More Bus Lanes was to allow Buses/Taxis Quicker and Traffic free Lanes, So that we all start to use Public transport rather
than everybody using Cars, because its quicker !!
So what do they do Now, Introduce a 20mph so that Buses/Taxis will be
like the Rest of us, grinding to a halt.
I like most people fully understand the need for 20mph outside schools, Hospitals, Care Home, and other High Risk Area's.
but NOT a Blanket 20mph ALL over the City.
The whole city would strike me as a high risk area. People live everywhere. Gets in the way of all these cars.
[quote][p][bold]clarkebrighton[/bold] wrote: I thought the Idea of More Bus Lanes was to allow Buses/Taxis Quicker and Traffic free Lanes, So that we all start to use Public transport rather than everybody using Cars, because its quicker !! So what do they do Now, Introduce a 20mph so that Buses/Taxis will be like the Rest of us, grinding to a halt. I like most people fully understand the need for 20mph outside schools, Hospitals, Care Home, and other High Risk Area's. but NOT a Blanket 20mph ALL over the City.[/p][/quote]The whole city would strike me as a high risk area. People live everywhere. Gets in the way of all these cars. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -16

9:55am Fri 15 Aug 14

yatman says...

The only silver lining in this pile of excrement is that
A. HJars will be looking for work post the May election no more troughing for wee Stevie.
B. Ian Davey is not standing at the next election.

However, watch them implement a scorched earth policy prior to their impending political demise. Less than 250 days!
The only silver lining in this pile of excrement is that A. HJars will be looking for work post the May election no more troughing for wee Stevie. B. Ian Davey is not standing at the next election. However, watch them implement a scorched earth policy prior to their impending political demise. Less than 250 days! yatman
  • Score: 24

9:57am Fri 15 Aug 14

Max Ripple says...

calro75 wrote:
I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the
20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad.
20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting.
Absolutely right. Most people actually drive at around 25-30 mph. I see it day in day out. Anyone who thinks people are actually driving at 20 mph is fooling themselves.
25-30 is obviously a good optimum speed if the results from Ian Davey are to be believed. No-one drives at 20mph. Trust me! Except where the traffic jams are such that you can't go any faster.
Bus drivers and taxis ALWAYS drive faster than 20mph.
[quote][p][bold]calro75[/bold] wrote: I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the 20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad. 20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. Most people actually drive at around 25-30 mph. I see it day in day out. Anyone who thinks people are actually driving at 20 mph is fooling themselves. 25-30 is obviously a good optimum speed if the results from Ian Davey are to be believed. No-one drives at 20mph. Trust me! Except where the traffic jams are such that you can't go any faster. Bus drivers and taxis ALWAYS drive faster than 20mph. Max Ripple
  • Score: 23

10:04am Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Nothing like a flawed consultation - I live in Hangleton and yet I received nothing from the council about it ( then again they couldn't even collect my rubbish on time this week so why am I surprised ).

As usual The Argus have failed as well - they could at least put a link to any online access to the consultation.

I'll very expressing very strong views against and even if it comes in will ignore the limit when safe to do so as I already do in the current 20mph areas.
You're a kn0b, but at least you're honest. Where would Brighton be without working, grafting scroats who enjoy urban speeding?

Some of us appreciate rules as a civilising influence in all walks of life, and that 20mph zones are long overdue. As for the potholes etc., Brighton and Hove does seem to have some serious mismanagement issues that pre-date the Greens by many years; it does seem to get poor value for money with its overall enterprise - City Clean could probably do to be outsourced - bring back Compulsory Competitive Tendering I say.

Brighton and Hove strikes me as a council that was waiting for a recession to highlight itself in the same way as someone who was swimming naked when the tide went out; an improvement on a town that looked like it was helping the Police with their enquiries I suppose.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: Nothing like a flawed consultation - I live in Hangleton and yet I received nothing from the council about it ( then again they couldn't even collect my rubbish on time this week so why am I surprised ). As usual The Argus have failed as well - they could at least put a link to any online access to the consultation. I'll very expressing very strong views against and even if it comes in will ignore the limit when safe to do so as I already do in the current 20mph areas.[/p][/quote]You're a kn0b, but at least you're honest. Where would Brighton be without working, grafting scroats who enjoy urban speeding? Some of us appreciate rules as a civilising influence in all walks of life, and that 20mph zones are long overdue. As for the potholes etc., Brighton and Hove does seem to have some serious mismanagement issues that pre-date the Greens by many years; it does seem to get poor value for money with its overall enterprise - City Clean could probably do to be outsourced - bring back Compulsory Competitive Tendering I say. Brighton and Hove strikes me as a council that was waiting for a recession to highlight itself in the same way as someone who was swimming naked when the tide went out; an improvement on a town that looked like it was helping the Police with their enquiries I suppose. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -29

10:06am Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Spot on
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Spot on theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -32

10:09am Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

hoveguyactually wrote:
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
But the house prices just go up and up and up. Where would you be on this particular fence? You have a strong opinion about everything except this.
[quote][p][bold]hoveguyactually[/bold] wrote: If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.[/p][/quote]But the house prices just go up and up and up. Where would you be on this particular fence? You have a strong opinion about everything except this. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -21

10:16am Fri 15 Aug 14

gheese77 says...

I think most drivers have lowered their speed. Ok they don't stick to the 20 mph limit but then most didn't stick to a 30 mph limit either. You see cars travelling at 25 -to 30 mph instead of 35 mph. This is good news for road safety as the chances of a pedestrian surviving being hit by a car are much better at speeds below 30 mph.
I think most drivers have lowered their speed. Ok they don't stick to the 20 mph limit but then most didn't stick to a 30 mph limit either. You see cars travelling at 25 -to 30 mph instead of 35 mph. This is good news for road safety as the chances of a pedestrian surviving being hit by a car are much better at speeds below 30 mph. gheese77
  • Score: -19

10:34am Fri 15 Aug 14

Johnwilson23 says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
What a plonker.Not in the real world.Brighton thanks to the Greens is a gridlocked city.They are so inexperienced in all matters..The seafront is a disaster.Traffic is almost permanently at a standstill because of the Traffic lights which must have been programmed by someone only used to working with a commodore 64 or a zx siinclair.Commuters using A27/Old Shoreham Rd./London Rd/Lewes Rd/A259 Rottingdeam cant wait for the May elections.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]What a plonker.Not in the real world.Brighton thanks to the Greens is a gridlocked city.They are so inexperienced in all matters..The seafront is a disaster.Traffic is almost permanently at a standstill because of the Traffic lights which must have been programmed by someone only used to working with a commodore 64 or a zx siinclair.Commuters using A27/Old Shoreham Rd./London Rd/Lewes Rd/A259 Rottingdeam cant wait for the May elections. Johnwilson23
  • Score: 26

10:34am Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

gheese77 wrote:
I think most drivers have lowered their speed. Ok they don't stick to the 20 mph limit but then most didn't stick to a 30 mph limit either. You see cars travelling at 25 -to 30 mph instead of 35 mph. This is good news for road safety as the chances of a pedestrian surviving being hit by a car are much better at speeds below 30 mph.
A balanced opinion that makes a difference.
[quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: I think most drivers have lowered their speed. Ok they don't stick to the 20 mph limit but then most didn't stick to a 30 mph limit either. You see cars travelling at 25 -to 30 mph instead of 35 mph. This is good news for road safety as the chances of a pedestrian surviving being hit by a car are much better at speeds below 30 mph.[/p][/quote]A balanced opinion that makes a difference. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -4

11:10am Fri 15 Aug 14

NickBtn says...

aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims. NickBtn
  • Score: 22

11:26am Fri 15 Aug 14

Lord Tilford says...

A unintended consequence of lowering the speed limit from 30 to 20mph is that it the air quality will deteriorate. A car/lorry/van driving at 20mph will take 50% long to cover the same distance as it does at 30mph. The engine efficiency at 20 is also less than it is at 30.
So this Green initiative will be keeping cars longer within suburban roads (as they take longer to traverse them) as well as increasing the pollution levels.
A unintended consequence of lowering the speed limit from 30 to 20mph is that it the air quality will deteriorate. A car/lorry/van driving at 20mph will take 50% long to cover the same distance as it does at 30mph. The engine efficiency at 20 is also less than it is at 30. So this Green initiative will be keeping cars longer within suburban roads (as they take longer to traverse them) as well as increasing the pollution levels. Lord Tilford
  • Score: 22

11:31am Fri 15 Aug 14

salty_pete says...

The only way for a vehicle to drive at 20mph in the east of Brighton, is to continually drive on your brakes as it tends to have hills. Now brake dust is not a very nice substance to inhale and is particularly harmful. But I suppose being practical is not an attribute one can associate with the Greens; ideology at all costs even when it is harmful. There are so many things wrong with this proposal it would need more space than I have here to list them all. However one thing we can be sure of, any consultation can, and will, be ignored as the council are under no obligation to consider the answers.
The only way for a vehicle to drive at 20mph in the east of Brighton, is to continually drive on your brakes as it tends to have hills. Now brake dust is not a very nice substance to inhale and is particularly harmful. But I suppose being practical is not an attribute one can associate with the Greens; ideology at all costs even when it is harmful. There are so many things wrong with this proposal it would need more space than I have here to list them all. However one thing we can be sure of, any consultation can, and will, be ignored as the council are under no obligation to consider the answers. salty_pete
  • Score: 13

11:45am Fri 15 Aug 14

One View says...

The area I live in did not vote for a 20mph restriction and I am not aware of any higher accident rate here than elsewhere in the city that did opt for a 20mph limit. Residents can't be called hypocrites here!

Some roads just a few yards long and dead ends have had signs and road markings advertising 20pmh limits where in reality you couldn't achieve more than 10 anyway!

The annoying thing is people driving more than 20mph in the restricted areas who live there, were the ones who asked for it to be introduced.

You can drive without due care and attention at any speed.
The area I live in did not vote for a 20mph restriction and I am not aware of any higher accident rate here than elsewhere in the city that did opt for a 20mph limit. Residents can't be called hypocrites here! Some roads just a few yards long and dead ends have had signs and road markings advertising 20pmh limits where in reality you couldn't achieve more than 10 anyway! The annoying thing is people driving more than 20mph in the restricted areas who live there, were the ones who asked for it to be introduced. You can drive without due care and attention at any speed. One View
  • Score: 11

11:59am Fri 15 Aug 14

aat99 says...

NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely aat99
  • Score: -10

12:10pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Nick Brighton says...

Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20. Nick Brighton
  • Score: -20

12:40pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
Hear hear
[quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]Hear hear theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -15

12:42pm Fri 15 Aug 14

stir up says...

The main reason you ended up with the greens is the students in Brighton at the time voted them in and then left the town soon as finished with education. The 20 mile limit uses more fuel and causes more pollution, if you had a fall on the pavement near a traffic hold up your lungs will fill up with all the exhaust gases, walking just a few feet above ground only makes a slight difference to the degree of pollution around you.
The main reason you ended up with the greens is the students in Brighton at the time voted them in and then left the town soon as finished with education. The 20 mile limit uses more fuel and causes more pollution, if you had a fall on the pavement near a traffic hold up your lungs will fill up with all the exhaust gases, walking just a few feet above ground only makes a slight difference to the degree of pollution around you. stir up
  • Score: 13

12:50pm Fri 15 Aug 14

cookie_brighton says...

20 m.p.h.....waste of money as no one is policing it, the police do not seem concerned.......plac
ing all these 20 m.p.h. zones throughout Brighton and Hove areas, if they were adhered to, it would take a person a long time to travel through the area. I witness bicycles travelling at more than 20 m.p.h., sometimes on the pavements......sort that out.
20 m.p.h.....waste of money as no one is policing it, the police do not seem concerned.......plac ing all these 20 m.p.h. zones throughout Brighton and Hove areas, if they were adhered to, it would take a person a long time to travel through the area. I witness bicycles travelling at more than 20 m.p.h., sometimes on the pavements......sort that out. cookie_brighton
  • Score: 13

12:52pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Mark63 says...

Its pointless having your say , cos they have already decided. Our road said NO and they still went ahead with it. They are one-policy lunatics who don't care one jot what people really want. They continue to waste money on anti-car policies while letting road systems rot, allowing the centre to look continually grubby, the sea-front to collapse and keeping the welcome for visitors at an all time low. Disgusting use of our money, that could be better spent on any of the above.... not to mention support services....
Its pointless having your say , cos they have already decided. Our road said NO and they still went ahead with it. They are one-policy lunatics who don't care one jot what people really want. They continue to waste money on anti-car policies while letting road systems rot, allowing the centre to look continually grubby, the sea-front to collapse and keeping the welcome for visitors at an all time low. Disgusting use of our money, that could be better spent on any of the above.... not to mention support services.... Mark63
  • Score: 18

1:06pm Fri 15 Aug 14

We love Red Billy says...

aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you. We love Red Billy
  • Score: 19

1:12pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

stir up wrote:
The main reason you ended up with the greens is the students in Brighton at the time voted them in and then left the town soon as finished with education. The 20 mile limit uses more fuel and causes more pollution, if you had a fall on the pavement near a traffic hold up your lungs will fill up with all the exhaust gases, walking just a few feet above ground only makes a slight difference to the degree of pollution around you.
These students are mentioned a lot by those with anti-Green issues. Can you put hard numbers on this opinion, or are you just extrapolating Hanover to somehow include the whole of Brighton and Hove to assert your case?
[quote][p][bold]stir up[/bold] wrote: The main reason you ended up with the greens is the students in Brighton at the time voted them in and then left the town soon as finished with education. The 20 mile limit uses more fuel and causes more pollution, if you had a fall on the pavement near a traffic hold up your lungs will fill up with all the exhaust gases, walking just a few feet above ground only makes a slight difference to the degree of pollution around you.[/p][/quote]These students are mentioned a lot by those with anti-Green issues. Can you put hard numbers on this opinion, or are you just extrapolating Hanover to somehow include the whole of Brighton and Hove to assert your case? theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -9

1:18pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Nosfaratu says...

We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Boss-Eyed reading all this above.

Just move to Bodmin area (Wales) where the roads are much better than here, smooth ! ,uncluttered by road furniture, or ridiculous speed limits.

So tired of the never-ending lack of Fiscal punch to sort out the Transport system in East/West Sussex. Pse all write to your MP or the PM if you don't have a responsible one (Btn/Lewes) complaining that he has just spent £15 Billion on Crossrail and we have to use 60 year old roads.
[quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Boss-Eyed reading all this above. Just move to Bodmin area (Wales) where the roads are much better than here, smooth ! ,uncluttered by road furniture, or ridiculous speed limits. So tired of the never-ending lack of Fiscal punch to sort out the Transport system in East/West Sussex. Pse all write to your MP or the PM if you don't have a responsible one (Btn/Lewes) complaining that he has just spent £15 Billion on Crossrail and we have to use 60 year old roads. Nosfaratu
  • Score: 2

1:20pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

Mark63 wrote:
Its pointless having your say , cos they have already decided. Our road said NO and they still went ahead with it. They are one-policy lunatics who don't care one jot what people really want. They continue to waste money on anti-car policies while letting road systems rot, allowing the centre to look continually grubby, the sea-front to collapse and keeping the welcome for visitors at an all time low. Disgusting use of our money, that could be better spent on any of the above.... not to mention support services....
As I said in my earlier post, you cannot blame Brighton and Hove Council's problems on the Greens. It has serious personnel issues that seem to ensure that it will always get poor value for money for its overall enterprise. The need for austerity in local government has only highlighted this. The Greens have only been PARTLY in charge since 2010. Why do people not seem to recognise that both Labour and the Conservatives have had significant input into day to day business during this time as well?
[quote][p][bold]Mark63[/bold] wrote: Its pointless having your say , cos they have already decided. Our road said NO and they still went ahead with it. They are one-policy lunatics who don't care one jot what people really want. They continue to waste money on anti-car policies while letting road systems rot, allowing the centre to look continually grubby, the sea-front to collapse and keeping the welcome for visitors at an all time low. Disgusting use of our money, that could be better spent on any of the above.... not to mention support services....[/p][/quote]As I said in my earlier post, you cannot blame Brighton and Hove Council's problems on the Greens. It has serious personnel issues that seem to ensure that it will always get poor value for money for its overall enterprise. The need for austerity in local government has only highlighted this. The Greens have only been PARTLY in charge since 2010. Why do people not seem to recognise that both Labour and the Conservatives have had significant input into day to day business during this time as well? theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -9

1:20pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

There's no real point in introducing more until they can enforce the iones they've got - not that they necessarily should. In my experience (as a pedestrian) it's made no difference to car speeds. I walk to Brighton Station every morning to catch the 06:30, and the vehicles that are around at that time are, quite sensibly, going at exactly the same speeds as they always did as opposed to wasting fuel (and time) by crawling along at 18mph.

The sensible thing to do would be to review the whole scheme and remove the limits where they're unnecessary and also where they've simply been introduced out of dogma and spite - but as that's the 'sensible' thing there is zero chance of that happening.
There's no real point in introducing more until they can enforce the iones they've got - not that they necessarily should. In my experience (as a pedestrian) it's made no difference to car speeds. I walk to Brighton Station every morning to catch the 06:30, and the vehicles that are around at that time are, quite sensibly, going at exactly the same speeds as they always did as opposed to wasting fuel (and time) by crawling along at 18mph. The sensible thing to do would be to review the whole scheme and remove the limits where they're unnecessary and also where they've simply been introduced out of dogma and spite - but as that's the 'sensible' thing there is zero chance of that happening. Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: 13

1:27pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Nosfaratu says...

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
There's no real point in introducing more until they can enforce the iones they've got - not that they necessarily should. In my experience (as a pedestrian) it's made no difference to car speeds. I walk to Brighton Station every morning to catch the 06:30, and the vehicles that are around at that time are, quite sensibly, going at exactly the same speeds as they always did as opposed to wasting fuel (and time) by crawling along at 18mph.

The sensible thing to do would be to review the whole scheme and remove the limits where they're unnecessary and also where they've simply been introduced out of dogma and spite - but as that's the 'sensible' thing there is zero chance of that happening.
Can we not get the Israelis to make new roads for us like in Gaza.
[quote][p][bold]Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit[/bold] wrote: There's no real point in introducing more until they can enforce the iones they've got - not that they necessarily should. In my experience (as a pedestrian) it's made no difference to car speeds. I walk to Brighton Station every morning to catch the 06:30, and the vehicles that are around at that time are, quite sensibly, going at exactly the same speeds as they always did as opposed to wasting fuel (and time) by crawling along at 18mph. The sensible thing to do would be to review the whole scheme and remove the limits where they're unnecessary and also where they've simply been introduced out of dogma and spite - but as that's the 'sensible' thing there is zero chance of that happening.[/p][/quote]Can we not get the Israelis to make new roads for us like in Gaza. Nosfaratu
  • Score: -6

1:46pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MrDavis says...

I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity. MrDavis
  • Score: -19

1:53pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MrDavis says...

salty_pete wrote:
The only way for a vehicle to drive at 20mph in the east of Brighton, is to continually drive on your brakes as it tends to have hills. Now brake dust is not a very nice substance to inhale and is particularly harmful. But I suppose being practical is not an attribute one can associate with the Greens; ideology at all costs even when it is harmful. There are so many things wrong with this proposal it would need more space than I have here to list them all. However one thing we can be sure of, any consultation can, and will, be ignored as the council are under no obligation to consider the answers.
Not at all, try changing down a gear..
[quote][p][bold]salty_pete[/bold] wrote: The only way for a vehicle to drive at 20mph in the east of Brighton, is to continually drive on your brakes as it tends to have hills. Now brake dust is not a very nice substance to inhale and is particularly harmful. But I suppose being practical is not an attribute one can associate with the Greens; ideology at all costs even when it is harmful. There are so many things wrong with this proposal it would need more space than I have here to list them all. However one thing we can be sure of, any consultation can, and will, be ignored as the council are under no obligation to consider the answers.[/p][/quote]Not at all, try changing down a gear.. MrDavis
  • Score: -6

2:23pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed?

OK.
[quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed? OK. notslimjim
  • Score: 2

2:26pm Fri 15 Aug 14

aat99 says...

We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
[quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident .... aat99
  • Score: -12

2:30pm Fri 15 Aug 14

NickBrt says...

I can't remember the last time I did manage to drive at 20 mph. So much congestion but I can't really complain when I am part of the problem, being an occasional driver.
I can't remember the last time I did manage to drive at 20 mph. So much congestion but I can't really complain when I am part of the problem, being an occasional driver. NickBrt
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Fri 15 Aug 14

PracticeNotTheories says...

I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...).
While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays.
I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...). While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays. PracticeNotTheories
  • Score: 14

2:37pm Fri 15 Aug 14

NickBtn says...

MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend.

The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive).

In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike).

So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread....
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend. The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive). In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike). So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread.... NickBtn
  • Score: 9

2:37pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
No, keeping the traffic moving is what is vital.

You're also breathing in dirtier air whilst you walk around. That may please you, but many of us would rather the cars travelled faster and burned their fuel more efficiently.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]No, keeping the traffic moving is what is vital. You're also breathing in dirtier air whilst you walk around. That may please you, but many of us would rather the cars travelled faster and burned their fuel more efficiently. notslimjim
  • Score: 4

2:38pm Fri 15 Aug 14

PracticeNotTheories says...

aat99 - It's very unfortunate about your friend, however, if the accident was possibly his fault (as you say), why would it be other people needing to slow down?
I assume you in the same way would petition to stop anyone being served more than 2 beers in a single 24 hours period?
Speed limits have historically been set at a sensible level, in order to ensure things are safer. If people are not obeying those limits, you enforce them, rather than drop them 'in the hope they will slow down to where we want them to be'.
aat99 - It's very unfortunate about your friend, however, if the accident was possibly his fault (as you say), why would it be other people needing to slow down? I assume you in the same way would petition to stop anyone being served more than 2 beers in a single 24 hours period? Speed limits have historically been set at a sensible level, in order to ensure things are safer. If people are not obeying those limits, you enforce them, rather than drop them 'in the hope they will slow down to where we want them to be'. PracticeNotTheories
  • Score: 8

2:57pm Fri 15 Aug 14

A. Bird says...

It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions
A. Bird
It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions A. Bird A. Bird
  • Score: 7

3:14pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

notslimjim wrote:
Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed?

OK.
This isn't possible.
[quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed? OK.[/p][/quote]This isn't possible. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -3

3:15pm Fri 15 Aug 14

yatman says...

aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it. yatman
  • Score: 12

3:19pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

A. Bird wrote:
It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions
A. Bird
The state of the roads (as with much of BHCC's culture) seem to be more to do with the history of the place being run for the benefit of the council officers more than its citizens. Keeping on blaming EVERYTHING on the Greens is just factually incorrect. There seems to be a cull of staff, with more to come. Watch this space for the next few years, instead of keeping on shouting about how much you hate the Greens.
[quote][p][bold]A. Bird[/bold] wrote: It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions A. Bird[/p][/quote]The state of the roads (as with much of BHCC's culture) seem to be more to do with the history of the place being run for the benefit of the council officers more than its citizens. Keeping on blaming EVERYTHING on the Greens is just factually incorrect. There seems to be a cull of staff, with more to come. Watch this space for the next few years, instead of keeping on shouting about how much you hate the Greens. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -5

3:22pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

NickBtn wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend.

The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive).

In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike).

So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread....
Enough of this nonsense about targeted 20 mph zones. Where these exist, I'm used to being bullied by motorists that seem unable to comprehend that the speed limit changes from 30mph to 20 mph for fifty yards or so, and they really don't like it.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend. The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive). In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike). So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread....[/p][/quote]Enough of this nonsense about targeted 20 mph zones. Where these exist, I'm used to being bullied by motorists that seem unable to comprehend that the speed limit changes from 30mph to 20 mph for fifty yards or so, and they really don't like it. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -8

3:35pm Fri 15 Aug 14

wendy-uk says...

Here's a radical idea. How about pedestrians using designated pedestrian crossings instead of stepping out in front of cars? Speed limits would not be reduced if people used a bit of common sense when crossing roads.
Here's a radical idea. How about pedestrians using designated pedestrian crossings instead of stepping out in front of cars? Speed limits would not be reduced if people used a bit of common sense when crossing roads. wendy-uk
  • Score: 10

3:35pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
[quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -9

3:38pm Fri 15 Aug 14

calro75 says...

PracticeNotTheories wrote:
I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...).
While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays.
Totally agree, drivers are becoming frustrated and intolerant of everyone since all the road changes. Personally. I've witnessed some awful driving and behaviour but I think a large part of it is people being fed up with sitting in jams or at traffic lights. I think the next death on the roads in Brighton will be through road rage.
[quote][p][bold]PracticeNotTheories[/bold] wrote: I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...). While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays.[/p][/quote]Totally agree, drivers are becoming frustrated and intolerant of everyone since all the road changes. Personally. I've witnessed some awful driving and behaviour but I think a large part of it is people being fed up with sitting in jams or at traffic lights. I think the next death on the roads in Brighton will be through road rage. calro75
  • Score: 5

3:41pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
notslimjim wrote:
Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed?

OK.
This isn't possible.
Correct.

I missed the 'extra' bit out.

Thanks.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]So you won't feel stressed about people overtaking you legally at 50% of your speed? OK.[/p][/quote]This isn't possible.[/p][/quote]Correct. I missed the 'extra' bit out. Thanks. notslimjim
  • Score: -2

3:42pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

wendy-uk wrote:
Here's a radical idea. How about pedestrians using designated pedestrian crossings instead of stepping out in front of cars? Speed limits would not be reduced if people used a bit of common sense when crossing roads.
Facetious woman. Pedestrians can't kill people sitting in cars.
[quote][p][bold]wendy-uk[/bold] wrote: Here's a radical idea. How about pedestrians using designated pedestrian crossings instead of stepping out in front of cars? Speed limits would not be reduced if people used a bit of common sense when crossing roads.[/p][/quote]Facetious woman. Pedestrians can't kill people sitting in cars. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -5

3:44pm Fri 15 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 8

3:44pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

calro75 wrote:
PracticeNotTheories wrote:
I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...).
While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays.
Totally agree, drivers are becoming frustrated and intolerant of everyone since all the road changes. Personally. I've witnessed some awful driving and behaviour but I think a large part of it is people being fed up with sitting in jams or at traffic lights. I think the next death on the roads in Brighton will be through road rage.
Your lesson seems to be; adopt a more easy-going manner with your motoring, walk, cycle or take the bus. Seems like good advice to me.
[quote][p][bold]calro75[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PracticeNotTheories[/bold] wrote: I live just off Eastern Road, near the Hospital, and the accident rate since the change in speed has increased. In the last few months there have been some serious accidents (yes, one involved a stolen car, so would expect them not to adhere to speed limits). I'm aware of 3 serious car accidents, and a number of pedestrian accidents (with cars... not people bumping into each other...). While I'm not about to attribute them all to the new speed limit, previously there have not been this number. Talking to different bus drivers, and neighbours, it has been noticed that there does appear to be 'less tolerance' to delays.[/p][/quote]Totally agree, drivers are becoming frustrated and intolerant of everyone since all the road changes. Personally. I've witnessed some awful driving and behaviour but I think a large part of it is people being fed up with sitting in jams or at traffic lights. I think the next death on the roads in Brighton will be through road rage.[/p][/quote]Your lesson seems to be; adopt a more easy-going manner with your motoring, walk, cycle or take the bus. Seems like good advice to me. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -8

3:47pm Fri 15 Aug 14

aat99 says...

yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ...
[quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ... aat99
  • Score: -5

3:49pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -7

3:49pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

aat99 wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ...
spot on
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ...[/p][/quote]spot on theargusissoinformative
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Fri 15 Aug 14

boo2005 says...

well that ought to be enough opinion material for the council to be sifting it's way through for the moment!........fools to ask really, as if they didn't already know the answer!
well that ought to be enough opinion material for the council to be sifting it's way through for the moment!........fools to ask really, as if they didn't already know the answer! boo2005
  • Score: 4

3:55pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Bertie1966 says...

Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
It might be stress free for you, but look in your rear view mirrors and you will see a long line of irate drivers. Idiot!
[quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]It might be stress free for you, but look in your rear view mirrors and you will see a long line of irate drivers. Idiot! Bertie1966
  • Score: 9

3:57pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

A. Bird wrote:
It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions
A. Bird
How about the fact that some of us like the idea of being able to use local roads where motorists are culturally considerate and tolerant of all types of road user, apart from only looking out for themselves. Makes the whole place a lot more pleasant and civilised. This should equal less stress and associated cardiac trouble. After all, local authorities are now responsible for promoting public health, and the Greens seem to be going the right way about it. What else should they do to promote public health; force you to go jogging?
[quote][p][bold]A. Bird[/bold] wrote: It is a total waste of money, there is a new government report that shows that in the areas the report was taken there was a noticeable increase in accidents Fortunately the two misinformed but publicity hungry individuals responsible for this very expensive fiasco will not be standing again. Hopefully the next elected council will undo this costly and crazy scheme . The state of the roads in Brighton are the cause of more accidents than the 30 mph restrictions A. Bird[/p][/quote]How about the fact that some of us like the idea of being able to use local roads where motorists are culturally considerate and tolerant of all types of road user, apart from only looking out for themselves. Makes the whole place a lot more pleasant and civilised. This should equal less stress and associated cardiac trouble. After all, local authorities are now responsible for promoting public health, and the Greens seem to be going the right way about it. What else should they do to promote public health; force you to go jogging? theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -5

3:58pm Fri 15 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

Bertie1966 wrote:
Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
It might be stress free for you, but look in your rear view mirrors and you will see a long line of irate drivers. Idiot!
You're the idiot. Change your outlook, and you'll be doing yourself a favour if anything.
[quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]It might be stress free for you, but look in your rear view mirrors and you will see a long line of irate drivers. Idiot![/p][/quote]You're the idiot. Change your outlook, and you'll be doing yourself a favour if anything. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -8

3:59pm Fri 15 Aug 14

yatman says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
aat99 wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ...
spot on
Yes.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]So you are basically saying you are happy to knock someone over and if it is their fault that they are badly injured so be it ... the fact that is wouldn't have been so bad at 25mph instead of 35 mph doesn't matter to you so long as you get to your destination those vital minutes earlier ...[/p][/quote]spot on[/p][/quote]Yes. yatman
  • Score: 2

4:07pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Bertie1966 says...

Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ... Bertie1966
  • Score: 0

4:17pm Fri 15 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 6

4:19pm Fri 15 Aug 14

reddogs says...

what is this council trying to do to this town now they want more 20mph streets ,what with bus and cycle lanes everywhere it will soon be a walking town where you leave your vehicle outside of the town and walk everywhere.I know we all say it the sooner the bloody greens are gone the better this town will be.
what is this council trying to do to this town now they want more 20mph streets ,what with bus and cycle lanes everywhere it will soon be a walking town where you leave your vehicle outside of the town and walk everywhere.I know we all say it the sooner the bloody greens are gone the better this town will be. reddogs
  • Score: 6

5:16pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MartinDE says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
@thevoiceoftruth

What make and model is your car?

As an example, a standard 2014 Ford Focus has gear ratios of 1.45 (3rd gear) and 1.03 (4th gear) so it can do 20mph in 3rd at the same revs as it does 28.2mph in 4th.

What strange car do you have that can happily do 30mph but struggles to do 20mph?

And if you are unable to drive consistently at 20mph, how do you deal with roads outside hospitals and schools, where everyone seems to agree 20mph makes sense?
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.[/p][/quote]@thevoiceoftruth What make and model is your car? As an example, a standard 2014 Ford Focus has gear ratios of 1.45 (3rd gear) and 1.03 (4th gear) so it can do 20mph in 3rd at the same revs as it does 28.2mph in 4th. What strange car do you have that can happily do 30mph but struggles to do 20mph? And if you are unable to drive consistently at 20mph, how do you deal with roads outside hospitals and schools, where everyone seems to agree 20mph makes sense? MartinDE
  • Score: -3

5:30pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

reddogs wrote:
what is this council trying to do to this town now they want more 20mph streets ,what with bus and cycle lanes everywhere it will soon be a walking town where you leave your vehicle outside of the town and walk everywhere.I know we all say it the sooner the bloody greens are gone the better this town will be.
A walking town? Excellent, as long as there are suitable arrangements for those that cannot do this. Just imagine how much fitter and better off we would be!
[quote][p][bold]reddogs[/bold] wrote: what is this council trying to do to this town now they want more 20mph streets ,what with bus and cycle lanes everywhere it will soon be a walking town where you leave your vehicle outside of the town and walk everywhere.I know we all say it the sooner the bloody greens are gone the better this town will be.[/p][/quote]A walking town? Excellent, as long as there are suitable arrangements for those that cannot do this. Just imagine how much fitter and better off we would be! HJarrs
  • Score: -3

5:40pm Fri 15 Aug 14

SoundSerpent says...

hoveguyactually wrote:
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that!
[quote][p][bold]hoveguyactually[/bold] wrote: If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.[/p][/quote]I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! SoundSerpent
  • Score: 0

5:40pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

Bertie1966 wrote:
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time.

And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.
[quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...[/p][/quote]If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time. And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down. HJarrs
  • Score: -4

5:45pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

NickBtn wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend.

The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive).

In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike).

So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread....
You might of had a point had bus ridership not continued to increase following the introduction of the 20mph zones. People are clearly not being put off public transport.

Most journeys by bus as by car a largely unaffected by the 20mph introduction as waiting at traffic lights or junctions is the critical factor.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]It's really interesting how the supporters of the 20mph zone feel much safer and that things are calmer. Perhaps this is the key benefit and why the greens want to extend. The reality is different. Even the council only claim just over a 1mph change in average speed. And the effect is only on 3/4 of roads (again council figures). So while the roads appear safer, they are only marginally so (by 1mph). What has changed is that buses are slower - so public transport is less attractive and routes are having timings put up (so bus frequencies go down, again making buses less attractive). In other cities where 20mph has been put in accident rates have gone up - perhaps because people wrongly think that they are safer. A car still hurts at 29mph, or at 30mph. Or at 20mph or 21. People still need to take responsibility and look (that is all road users alike). So the greens are not succeeding in making roads safer or making public transport more attractive. This is a real pity. With proper planning and more sensible use of the money both of these could have been achieved. Instead we are spending millions on signs! Why not targeted 20mph zones, properly installed, outside accident blackspots and schools? Instead we have a 20mph zone that turns to 30mph on the Ditchling Road just BEFORE an infant school. Shows just how badly designed and implemented the scheme is - and will continue to be as the zones spread....[/p][/quote]You might of had a point had bus ridership not continued to increase following the introduction of the 20mph zones. People are clearly not being put off public transport. Most journeys by bus as by car a largely unaffected by the 20mph introduction as waiting at traffic lights or junctions is the critical factor. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

5:54pm Fri 15 Aug 14

SoundSerpent says...

hoveguyactually wrote:
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods!
[quote][p][bold]hoveguyactually[/bold] wrote: If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.[/p][/quote]I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods! SoundSerpent
  • Score: 1

5:58pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

SoundSerpent wrote:
hoveguyactually wrote:
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods!
What a silly over reaction. Why would anyone want to do what you propose?
[quote][p][bold]SoundSerpent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hoveguyactually[/bold] wrote: If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.[/p][/quote]I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods![/p][/quote]What a silly over reaction. Why would anyone want to do what you propose? HJarrs
  • Score: 0

6:04pm Fri 15 Aug 14

yatman says...

HJarrs wrote:
Bertie1966 wrote:
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time.

And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.
Hi Steve, as usual you living in fantasy land again. Polish off that CV buddy, you are going to neeed it post May 2015.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...[/p][/quote]If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time. And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.[/p][/quote]Hi Steve, as usual you living in fantasy land again. Polish off that CV buddy, you are going to neeed it post May 2015. yatman
  • Score: 3

6:11pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

yatman wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Bertie1966 wrote:
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time.

And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.
Hi Steve, as usual you living in fantasy land again. Polish off that CV buddy, you are going to neeed it post May 2015.
Have you changed name again or are you yet another moaner. You might to tell me why I may want to brush up my CV in May. Bit of a mystery!
[quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...[/p][/quote]If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time. And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.[/p][/quote]Hi Steve, as usual you living in fantasy land again. Polish off that CV buddy, you are going to neeed it post May 2015.[/p][/quote]Have you changed name again or are you yet another moaner. You might to tell me why I may want to brush up my CV in May. Bit of a mystery! HJarrs
  • Score: -3

6:57pm Fri 15 Aug 14

bug eye says...

Its a joke!
Its a joke! bug eye
  • Score: 1

7:06pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark. Fight_Back
  • Score: 8

7:10pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are! HJarrs
  • Score: -3

7:33pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat


ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it. Fight_Back
  • Score: 2

7:34pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

Ignoring these speed limits is the way forward.
Ignoring these speed limits is the way forward. notslimjim
  • Score: 3

7:55pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MrDavis says...

Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else!
Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else! MrDavis
  • Score: -9

8:21pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

MrDavis wrote:
Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else!
It's the Greens who want to take us back to the times when cars required a red flag.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else![/p][/quote]It's the Greens who want to take us back to the times when cars required a red flag. notslimjim
  • Score: 4

8:22pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

MrDavis wrote:
Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else!
No Greens and their supporters can sod off. You will be next May.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else![/p][/quote]No Greens and their supporters can sod off. You will be next May. Fight_Back
  • Score: 5

8:43pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Aquadee says...

I thought the Council was trying to save money, so why are they wasting it on something which should be very low down on their priorities. 20 mph is far too slow- it makes drivers irritable and frustrated.
I thought the Council was trying to save money, so why are they wasting it on something which should be very low down on their priorities. 20 mph is far too slow- it makes drivers irritable and frustrated. Aquadee
  • Score: 4

8:43pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MrDavis says...

It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it. MrDavis
  • Score: -7

9:09pm Fri 15 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

MrDavis wrote:
Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else!
You obviously haven't traveled far!
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: Some proper dinosaurs on here as usual. Why don't you backwards people go and live somewhere else. Brighton is the best city to live in in the UK and the greens are making it an even more pleasant place to live. Negative people sod off and moan somewhere else![/p][/quote]You obviously haven't traveled far! DCCCCCC
  • Score: 6

9:09pm Fri 15 Aug 14

happy1972 says...

Waste of time and our money, the green agenda has gone too far! The sooner they are voted out by the majority and we get a council that actually cares about services rather than squandering our heard earned on follies the better. If those green minded individuals want to contribute to fund these initiatives then feel free just don't use my money without permission for schemes that I did not vote for in the first place!
Waste of time and our money, the green agenda has gone too far! The sooner they are voted out by the majority and we get a council that actually cares about services rather than squandering our heard earned on follies the better. If those green minded individuals want to contribute to fund these initiatives then feel free just don't use my money without permission for schemes that I did not vote for in the first place! happy1972
  • Score: 6

9:13pm Fri 15 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

HJarrs wrote:
Bertie1966 wrote:
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time.

And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.
Oh, so people come to Brighton because of 20mph limits? You are having a laugh. Lots of people including me are avoiding Brighton. because of the limits and congestion.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...[/p][/quote]If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time. And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.[/p][/quote]Oh, so people come to Brighton because of 20mph limits? You are having a laugh. Lots of people including me are avoiding Brighton. because of the limits and congestion. DCCCCCC
  • Score: 10

9:17pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Fight_Back says...

MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent. Fight_Back
  • Score: 5

9:28pm Fri 15 Aug 14

happy1972 says...

SoundSerpent wrote:
hoveguyactually wrote:
If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour.
Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties.
Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for.
Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads.
These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.
I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods!
Actually you may not be far from finding the real Green agenda SoundSerpent & HoveGuyActually, the message they seem to be sending is that they want us to move away from Brighton and stop spending our money here. That way ultimately Brighton becomes a ghost town that no-one wants to use, over time it returns to being part of the South Downs National Park as Nature reclaims the environment, and then becomes very green indeed! Lol :)
[quote][p][bold]SoundSerpent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hoveguyactually[/bold] wrote: If the council had its way we would be back to living in the days of horse and cart. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, confusing traffic signs, delays in roadworks have all led to terrible congestion, not to mention the creation of ugly landscaping of roads everywhere (see Grand Avenue for example). Ian Davey should have a look at the chaos caused by their policies on any of the roads going into and out of Brighton & Hove during the rush hour. Meanwhile, excessive parking charges = shoppers going elsewhere = shops and businesses closing down = higher unemployment = empty properties. Parking spaces along Hove seafront, throughout winter months and bad weather remain empty, due to the discouragement of visitors who are unwilling to pay the meters. Yet parking wardens have to be paid for. Cycle lanes, many of which are very badly planned, remain unused while cyclists still prefer to ride on pavements, often dangerously, always annoyingly, and ride through red traffic lights, and still use the adjacent main roads. These are the problems that the council should be addressing, not the creation of yet more 20 mph speed limits and all the signs that go with them. Many motorists ignore them anyway, since in most cases they are unnecessary, so why pretend there is a need to extend them? No, it is pure vanity on the part of a party that has lost its grip and its appeal, in a desperate attempt to regain it before election time comes around again. Hopefully the voters will be a bit more clued up this time and will get them kicked out once and for all. This is a lesson to other towns and cities who might be contemplating choosing a Green party to control it.[/p][/quote]I agree 👍 with the comments made by hoveguyactually, but clicked on the thumbs down button by mistake & am unable to rectify that! How about this idea Greens! Close down Brighton's roads to all traffic and stop people visiting here or residents getting out! Charge residents extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of living in Brighton. You could also ban lorries from bringing in goods![/p][/quote]Actually you may not be far from finding the real Green agenda SoundSerpent & HoveGuyActually, the message they seem to be sending is that they want us to move away from Brighton and stop spending our money here. That way ultimately Brighton becomes a ghost town that no-one wants to use, over time it returns to being part of the South Downs National Park as Nature reclaims the environment, and then becomes very green indeed! Lol :) happy1972
  • Score: -1

9:37pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat



ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others. HJarrs
  • Score: -5

9:44pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

DCCCCCC wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Bertie1966 wrote:
Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear.
Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...
If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time.

And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.
Oh, so people come to Brighton because of 20mph limits? You are having a laugh. Lots of people including me are avoiding Brighton. because of the limits and congestion.
Ha, ha. It always gives a good laugh when you so obviously try misrepresent what I post.

I made no such claim that the 20 mph is responsible for the continuing improvements in the local economy, rather I draw attention to the fact the the introduction of the new limits have not resulted in reduced numbers of tourists or a gross loss of business despite this being predicted by the moaning doom mongers.
[quote][p][bold]DCCCCCC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bertie1966[/bold] wrote: Green Party ... does anyone in the Greens understand that driving at 20mph instead of 30mph takes 50% longer (i.e. driving 30 miles take 60 minutes @ 30mph and 90 minutes at 20mph) and generates traffic on the road. Also to keep to 20mph you have to drive in 2nd gear everywhere which uses more fuel. Ideally we need to drive at 40mph in 5th gear. Finally ... the police aren't enforcing the 20mph limit, but they will when they haven't caught enough speeders. The traffic police are very sneaky. Just look at how many expensive unmarked BMW's and Audi's they drive ...[/p][/quote]If you drove a long way without road junctions or traffic lights in the city then you would be correct, however the streets in the 20mph zone tend to have relatively short distances between traffic lights and junctions. The reduction from 30 to 20mph has meant less acceleration and braking between traffic queues, so less pollution and brake wear, all for little or no increase in journey time. And let's not forget, employment and tourist numbers are continuing to go up since the introduction of the 20mph zones, something we were told by those that seem to take pride in talking our city down.[/p][/quote]Oh, so people come to Brighton because of 20mph limits? You are having a laugh. Lots of people including me are avoiding Brighton. because of the limits and congestion.[/p][/quote]Ha, ha. It always gives a good laugh when you so obviously try misrepresent what I post. I made no such claim that the 20 mph is responsible for the continuing improvements in the local economy, rather I draw attention to the fact the the introduction of the new limits have not resulted in reduced numbers of tourists or a gross loss of business despite this being predicted by the moaning doom mongers. HJarrs
  • Score: -4

9:52pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
[quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration. HJarrs
  • Score: -6

9:56pm Fri 15 Aug 14

HJarrs says...

Fight_Back wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.
Abusive? Pot calls kettle black methinks.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.[/p][/quote]Abusive? Pot calls kettle black methinks. HJarrs
  • Score: -6

10:33pm Fri 15 Aug 14

MasonStorm says...

These limits aren't real so who cares?
These limits aren't real so who cares? MasonStorm
  • Score: 9

11:51pm Fri 15 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat




ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident? notslimjim
  • Score: 1

1:51am Sat 16 Aug 14

whatevernext2013 says...

Max Ripple wrote:
calro75 wrote:
I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the
20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad.
20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting.
Absolutely right. Most people actually drive at around 25-30 mph. I see it day in day out. Anyone who thinks people are actually driving at 20 mph is fooling themselves.
25-30 is obviously a good optimum speed if the results from Ian Davey are to be believed. No-one drives at 20mph. Trust me! Except where the traffic jams are such that you can't go any faster.
Bus drivers and taxis ALWAYS drive faster than 20mph.
i wonder were your claim of bus and taxi drivers drive faster than 20mph ,just another made up comment from someone with nothing better to do ,the b&h buses all have GPS and are tracked and there speed are monitored , a bus driver breaking the speed limit can/will lose his licence
[quote][p][bold]Max Ripple[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calro75[/bold] wrote: I drive in this city everyday and see little evidence of anyone taking any notice of the 20th limit. The only thing that's putting traffic at a standstill is the endless traffic lights and the deliberate bad sequencing of them. This is very evident on the Shoreham road especially by boundary road, I've never known it to be so bad. 20mph limits in the city also seem somewhat pointless as now pedestrians feel they can just walk into the road whenever and expect you to stop, even at twenty you need stopping distance. This is all despite the fact that there are numerous pedestrian crossing dotted all over the place. Seven Dials is a perfect example, there are loads of crossings there yet pedestrians cross on the roundabout! Don't waste more taxpayers money on this pointless scheme. I'll be objecting.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. Most people actually drive at around 25-30 mph. I see it day in day out. Anyone who thinks people are actually driving at 20 mph is fooling themselves. 25-30 is obviously a good optimum speed if the results from Ian Davey are to be believed. No-one drives at 20mph. Trust me! Except where the traffic jams are such that you can't go any faster. Bus drivers and taxis ALWAYS drive faster than 20mph.[/p][/quote]i wonder were your claim of bus and taxi drivers drive faster than 20mph ,just another made up comment from someone with nothing better to do ,the b&h buses all have GPS and are tracked and there speed are monitored , a bus driver breaking the speed limit can/will lose his licence whatevernext2013
  • Score: 0

6:58am Sat 16 Aug 14

Rita Snatch says...

we don't want speed restrictions increased,,, we want roads that we can drive on safely and roads without big holes and diversions - such as the Brighton A259 ... Get your fingers out and get moving!
we don't want speed restrictions increased,,, we want roads that we can drive on safely and roads without big holes and diversions - such as the Brighton A259 ... Get your fingers out and get moving! Rita Snatch
  • Score: 6

9:12am Sat 16 Aug 14

J Hill says...

I think it's going to be a flagrant waste of money (again) by the council if they roll out the scheme to the East of Brighton. Ovingdean, Rottingdean and Saltdean are relatively quiet little villages. The busiest of the three has got to be Rottingdean as the Falmer Road leads directly through it and connects with Marne Drive (A259) but if anyone knows Rottingdean well enough they will already be able to tell you that it's nearly impossible to drve any faster than 20 mph through the village anyway due to the congestion there throughout the day and the tight road layouts throughout. Ovingdean is used by quite a few as a short cut through to Woodindean to avoid the congested village of Rottingdean. But it's never that busy and to be honest it's very rare that I have ever seen anyone speeding through. However, sticking at 20 mph as you negotiate Beacon Hill is an impossibility as the hill is far too steep for such a low speed 30 mph is spot on. Again, much like Rottingdean the layout and make up of Ovngdean dictates that speeds are relatively low anyway with cars parked on either side of the roads and a tight winding lane through the original Domesday part of the village. Saltdean is quieter than Rottingdean and Ovingdean as it does not connect to anything at the back at all and is not used as a thoroughfare and traffic is low. I'd be interested to see a any documentation showing / listing accident rates for these three villages. This is nothing but a money wasting scheme by the Greens. he entire roll out in this part of Brighton is unnecessary.
I think it's going to be a flagrant waste of money (again) by the council if they roll out the scheme to the East of Brighton. Ovingdean, Rottingdean and Saltdean are relatively quiet little villages. The busiest of the three has got to be Rottingdean as the Falmer Road leads directly through it and connects with Marne Drive (A259) but if anyone knows Rottingdean well enough they will already be able to tell you that it's nearly impossible to drve any faster than 20 mph through the village anyway due to the congestion there throughout the day and the tight road layouts throughout. Ovingdean is used by quite a few as a short cut through to Woodindean to avoid the congested village of Rottingdean. But it's never that busy and to be honest it's very rare that I have ever seen anyone speeding through. However, sticking at 20 mph as you negotiate Beacon Hill is an impossibility as the hill is far too steep for such a low speed 30 mph is spot on. Again, much like Rottingdean the layout and make up of Ovngdean dictates that speeds are relatively low anyway with cars parked on either side of the roads and a tight winding lane through the original Domesday part of the village. Saltdean is quieter than Rottingdean and Ovingdean as it does not connect to anything at the back at all and is not used as a thoroughfare and traffic is low. I'd be interested to see a any documentation showing / listing accident rates for these three villages. This is nothing but a money wasting scheme by the Greens. he entire roll out in this part of Brighton is unnecessary. J Hill
  • Score: 6

12:51pm Sat 16 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

notslimjim wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat





ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.
[quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?[/p][/quote]You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -1

12:55pm Sat 16 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

Fight_Back wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.
Haven't you worked that some us find speeding to be an abusive act?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.[/p][/quote]Haven't you worked that some us find speeding to be an abusive act? theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -3

1:02pm Sat 16 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.[/p][/quote]Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -1

1:11pm Sat 16 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

J Hill wrote:
I think it's going to be a flagrant waste of money (again) by the council if they roll out the scheme to the East of Brighton. Ovingdean, Rottingdean and Saltdean are relatively quiet little villages. The busiest of the three has got to be Rottingdean as the Falmer Road leads directly through it and connects with Marne Drive (A259) but if anyone knows Rottingdean well enough they will already be able to tell you that it's nearly impossible to drve any faster than 20 mph through the village anyway due to the congestion there throughout the day and the tight road layouts throughout. Ovingdean is used by quite a few as a short cut through to Woodindean to avoid the congested village of Rottingdean. But it's never that busy and to be honest it's very rare that I have ever seen anyone speeding through. However, sticking at 20 mph as you negotiate Beacon Hill is an impossibility as the hill is far too steep for such a low speed 30 mph is spot on. Again, much like Rottingdean the layout and make up of Ovngdean dictates that speeds are relatively low anyway with cars parked on either side of the roads and a tight winding lane through the original Domesday part of the village. Saltdean is quieter than Rottingdean and Ovingdean as it does not connect to anything at the back at all and is not used as a thoroughfare and traffic is low. I'd be interested to see a any documentation showing / listing accident rates for these three villages. This is nothing but a money wasting scheme by the Greens. he entire roll out in this part of Brighton is unnecessary.
They might just want to do it to show that different areas are not being treated differently. There might also be a stronger sense of community in these areas that is supportive of the idea. Most people like to do their journeys at speed, but they don't really want any cars at all going through their own neighbourhood; I think that the latter will win through. If a larger area is 20 mph, then any enforcement will be easily scaleable (just like parking zones), and it will be harder for other politicians to put the speed limits back up later.

Give it twenty years, and it will all be driverless cars anyway.
[quote][p][bold]J Hill[/bold] wrote: I think it's going to be a flagrant waste of money (again) by the council if they roll out the scheme to the East of Brighton. Ovingdean, Rottingdean and Saltdean are relatively quiet little villages. The busiest of the three has got to be Rottingdean as the Falmer Road leads directly through it and connects with Marne Drive (A259) but if anyone knows Rottingdean well enough they will already be able to tell you that it's nearly impossible to drve any faster than 20 mph through the village anyway due to the congestion there throughout the day and the tight road layouts throughout. Ovingdean is used by quite a few as a short cut through to Woodindean to avoid the congested village of Rottingdean. But it's never that busy and to be honest it's very rare that I have ever seen anyone speeding through. However, sticking at 20 mph as you negotiate Beacon Hill is an impossibility as the hill is far too steep for such a low speed 30 mph is spot on. Again, much like Rottingdean the layout and make up of Ovngdean dictates that speeds are relatively low anyway with cars parked on either side of the roads and a tight winding lane through the original Domesday part of the village. Saltdean is quieter than Rottingdean and Ovingdean as it does not connect to anything at the back at all and is not used as a thoroughfare and traffic is low. I'd be interested to see a any documentation showing / listing accident rates for these three villages. This is nothing but a money wasting scheme by the Greens. he entire roll out in this part of Brighton is unnecessary.[/p][/quote]They might just want to do it to show that different areas are not being treated differently. There might also be a stronger sense of community in these areas that is supportive of the idea. Most people like to do their journeys at speed, but they don't really want any cars at all going through their own neighbourhood; I think that the latter will win through. If a larger area is 20 mph, then any enforcement will be easily scaleable (just like parking zones), and it will be harder for other politicians to put the speed limits back up later. Give it twenty years, and it will all be driverless cars anyway. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Sat 16 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
notslimjim wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat






ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.
A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it.

He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users.

I should that suggestion to be nonsense.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?[/p][/quote]You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.[/p][/quote]A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it. He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users. I should that suggestion to be nonsense. notslimjim
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Sat 16 Aug 14

notslimjim says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
notslimjim wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat






ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.
A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it.

He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users.

I showed that suggestion to be nonsense.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?[/p][/quote]You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.[/p][/quote]A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it. He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users. I showed that suggestion to be nonsense. notslimjim
  • Score: 1

7:14am Sun 17 Aug 14

Deejaytee says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Spot on
Driverless cars? In a few years' time? Oh, please! Trials of this idea have been carried out by Mercedes-Benz in Germany since the 1980's and as yet there's been no significant take-up by any authority. If (and it's a massive 'if') they ever see the light of day (a) where do I get one? (b) what happens to the value of my current car and will I be recompensed for any loss I suffer by having to dispose of it and (c) how do I use it to visit my brother in a remote village in North of England? Cloud Cuckoo Land is imaginary, HJarrs! When you arrive back on planet Earth, do let us know!
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Spot on[/p][/quote]Driverless cars? In a few years' time? Oh, please! Trials of this idea have been carried out by Mercedes-Benz in Germany since the 1980's and as yet there's been no significant take-up by any authority. If (and it's a massive 'if') they ever see the light of day (a) where do I get one? (b) what happens to the value of my current car and will I be recompensed for any loss I suffer by having to dispose of it and (c) how do I use it to visit my brother in a remote village in North of England? Cloud Cuckoo Land is imaginary, HJarrs! When you arrive back on planet Earth, do let us know! Deejaytee
  • Score: 2

7:20am Sun 17 Aug 14

Deejaytee says...

Deejaytee wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Spot on
Driverless cars? In a few years' time? Oh, please! Trials of this idea have been carried out by Mercedes-Benz in Germany since the 1980's and as yet there's been no significant take-up by any authority. If (and it's a massive 'if') they ever see the light of day (a) where do I get one? (b) what happens to the value of my current car and will I be recompensed for any loss I suffer by having to dispose of it and (c) how do I use it to visit my brother in a remote village in North of England? Cloud Cuckoo Land is imaginary, HJarrs! When you arrive back on planet Earth, do let us know!
As a corollary, we already have 'driverless cars'. They're called 'buses'
[quote][p][bold]Deejaytee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Spot on[/p][/quote]Driverless cars? In a few years' time? Oh, please! Trials of this idea have been carried out by Mercedes-Benz in Germany since the 1980's and as yet there's been no significant take-up by any authority. If (and it's a massive 'if') they ever see the light of day (a) where do I get one? (b) what happens to the value of my current car and will I be recompensed for any loss I suffer by having to dispose of it and (c) how do I use it to visit my brother in a remote village in North of England? Cloud Cuckoo Land is imaginary, HJarrs! When you arrive back on planet Earth, do let us know![/p][/quote]As a corollary, we already have 'driverless cars'. They're called 'buses' Deejaytee
  • Score: 0

11:08pm Sun 17 Aug 14

janie9 says...

While the idea of reduced speed limits seems sensible, the implementation has been poor and ill judged, with residential and narrow roads having the residual 30 mph limit, leading to main route roads at 20mph. Driving a manual car means gear, brake and engine wear, and considerably more particulate and exhaust pollution holding the speed at 20mph, and in concentrating on the speed, road awareness goes down. Surely significant at any speed??
Perhaps some of the finance should have been put into policing the persistent traffic red light jumpers (including city buses and taxis), who in accelerating to "beat" the lights and posing a far greater risk to vulnerable cyclists, children and pedestrians, as well as other drivers, than those driving a the previous 30mph limits. Those not sticking to the 30mph previously are surely not going to reduce to 20mph anyway? What about the mobile phone texters and users - on last walk into Btn, (as driving is too slow and tedious now, and as for the parking...) of around 20mins' duration, 7 drivers spotted actively using mobiles!
Most of this would seem like common sense, and has probably been covered above, but when o' when will council and gov't ever represent the common people, rather than their own narrow interests and egos....
While the idea of reduced speed limits seems sensible, the implementation has been poor and ill judged, with residential and narrow roads having the residual 30 mph limit, leading to main route roads at 20mph. Driving a manual car means gear, brake and engine wear, and considerably more particulate and exhaust pollution holding the speed at 20mph, and in concentrating on the speed, road awareness goes down. Surely significant at any speed?? Perhaps some of the finance should have been put into policing the persistent traffic red light jumpers (including city buses and taxis), who in accelerating to "beat" the lights and posing a far greater risk to vulnerable cyclists, children and pedestrians, as well as other drivers, than those driving a the previous 30mph limits. Those not sticking to the 30mph previously are surely not going to reduce to 20mph anyway? What about the mobile phone texters and users - on last walk into Btn, (as driving is too slow and tedious now, and as for the parking...) of around 20mins' duration, 7 drivers spotted actively using mobiles! Most of this would seem like common sense, and has probably been covered above, but when o' when will council and gov't ever represent the common people, rather than their own narrow interests and egos.... janie9
  • Score: 3

10:23am Mon 18 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat


ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.
This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy?

We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF?

If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers!
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.[/p][/quote]Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.[/p][/quote]This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy? We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF? If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers! thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 4

10:33am Mon 18 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 4

10:42am Mon 18 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

Fight_Back wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.
Me too. I actually agree with some Green Party ideas but the people that support them seem to be completely nuts! Do they actually think by coming on here and abusing other people that they gain any support for their cause?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]I find it hilarious that Green supporters get so abusive when people say they will ignore these new made up rules. Why don't you get the police to charge us ? Ah, because the police have said they won't and they also ignore the new limits as well. Shame it's cost so much money that could have been better spent.[/p][/quote]Me too. I actually agree with some Green Party ideas but the people that support them seem to be completely nuts! Do they actually think by coming on here and abusing other people that they gain any support for their cause? thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 2

12:22pm Mon 18 Aug 14

MartinDE says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/sites/br
ighton-hove.gov.uk/f
iles/Brighton-Phase2
%20streets%20map.pdf


What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have? MartinDE
  • Score: -1

12:34pm Mon 18 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-

hove.gov.uk/sites/br

ighton-hove.gov.uk/f

iles/Brighton-Phase2

%20streets%20map.pdf



What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
[quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 1

1:18pm Mon 18 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
notslimjim wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat






ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.
Why don't you get public transport? Or are you one of those green supporters that drives whenever they like, but expects everyone else to change their ways.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?[/p][/quote]You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.[/p][/quote]Why don't you get public transport? Or are you one of those green supporters that drives whenever they like, but expects everyone else to change their ways. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 3

3:38pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Hove Actually says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before.
Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking.

http://www.securite-

routiere.gouv.fr/con

naitre-les-regles/la

-route-la-rue/le-cod

e-de-la-rue2
You really are a green spin machine....
You may even be a Scottish SMP the way you ignore the actual facts.
FRANCE has over 7 times the motorway space per car than we do
It's trains are cheaper and cleaner, parking is planned to allow people to park and then transit into and out of areas and theynuse the carrot to get people out of their cars and not just sticks and taxes
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: We are well behind our neighbours in introducing shared space road use in towns. We really haven't even started and as usual are left trailing with attitudes from the 1980's and before. Below is a version of the French highway code (You may need to translate it) which clearly shoes the 'route' many of our fellow EU members have/are taking. http://www.securite- routiere.gouv.fr/con naitre-les-regles/la -route-la-rue/le-cod e-de-la-rue2[/p][/quote]You really are a green spin machine.... You may even be a Scottish SMP the way you ignore the actual facts. FRANCE has over 7 times the motorway space per car than we do It's trains are cheaper and cleaner, parking is planned to allow people to park and then transit into and out of areas and theynuse the carrot to get people out of their cars and not just sticks and taxes Hove Actually
  • Score: 1

4:33pm Mon 18 Aug 14

MartinDE says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-


hove.gov.uk/sites/br


ighton-hove.gov.uk/f


iles/Brighton-Phase2


%20streets%20map.pdf




What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
This is how I would describe those roads:

Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph.

Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it?

Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top.

Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine.

A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians?


You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.[/p][/quote]This is how I would describe those roads: Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph. Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it? Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top. Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine. A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians? You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph. MartinDE
  • Score: -2

5:12pm Mon 18 Aug 14

her professional says...

yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
That paragraph sums up perfectly the arrogance and cold-blooded heartlessness of the anti-20 brigade on this site. 20 limits are not some Green anti-car invention, they are used extensively in the UK and Europe, and as has already been pointed out, the Greens can't get legislation through without some backing from the other parties. Also many of the bus and cycle lanes were in place long before the Greens came along. In other words, there is a consensus that cars need to be controlled in urban areas, and only a few dinosaurs continue to kick against the inevitable.
[quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]That paragraph sums up perfectly the arrogance and cold-blooded heartlessness of the anti-20 brigade on this site. 20 limits are not some Green anti-car invention, they are used extensively in the UK and Europe, and as has already been pointed out, the Greens can't get legislation through without some backing from the other parties. Also many of the bus and cycle lanes were in place long before the Greens came along. In other words, there is a consensus that cars need to be controlled in urban areas, and only a few dinosaurs continue to kick against the inevitable. her professional
  • Score: -3

5:12pm Mon 18 Aug 14

her professional says...

yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
That paragraph sums up perfectly the arrogance and cold-blooded heartlessness of the anti-20 brigade on this site. 20 limits are not some Green anti-car invention, they are used extensively in the UK and Europe, and as has already been pointed out, the Greens can't get legislation through without some backing from the other parties. Also many of the bus and cycle lanes were in place long before the Greens came along. In other words, there is a consensus that cars need to be controlled in urban areas, and only a few dinosaurs continue to kick against the inevitable.
[quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]That paragraph sums up perfectly the arrogance and cold-blooded heartlessness of the anti-20 brigade on this site. 20 limits are not some Green anti-car invention, they are used extensively in the UK and Europe, and as has already been pointed out, the Greens can't get legislation through without some backing from the other parties. Also many of the bus and cycle lanes were in place long before the Greens came along. In other words, there is a consensus that cars need to be controlled in urban areas, and only a few dinosaurs continue to kick against the inevitable. her professional
  • Score: -3

8:57pm Mon 18 Aug 14

G Wiley says...

@her professional and @HJarrs - do you actually think that the amount of bovine excrement that you post here will actually convince anyone to change their minds?

All you manage to do is to polarize opinion and get even more people p*ssed off with the green party and their view that they are so intelligent; they know what is best for everyone, and they don't need to take account of anyone else's opinions or views.

The ignored and unenforcable 20 mph zones, the minimally used cycle lanes, and the dedication of large swathes of the roads to buses queuing through the centre of the city has lead to worsening pollution levels.

How could the green party representatives be so irresponsibly incompetent? Discuss!
@her professional and @HJarrs - do you actually think that the amount of bovine excrement that you post here will actually convince anyone to change their minds? All you manage to do is to polarize opinion and get even more people p*ssed off with the green party and their view that they are so intelligent; they know what is best for everyone, and they don't need to take account of anyone else's opinions or views. The ignored and unenforcable 20 mph zones, the minimally used cycle lanes, and the dedication of large swathes of the roads to buses queuing through the centre of the city has lead to worsening pollution levels. How could the green party representatives be so irresponsibly incompetent? Discuss! G Wiley
  • Score: 5

7:31am Tue 19 Aug 14

twosugars says...

Interesting map, since when has Bannings vale at Saltdean been part of Brighton and Hove? Ordinance Survey show east of Longridge avenue as East Sussex.
Interesting map, since when has Bannings vale at Saltdean been part of Brighton and Hove? Ordinance Survey show east of Longridge avenue as East Sussex. twosugars
  • Score: 2

5:05pm Tue 19 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-



hove.gov.uk/sites/br



ighton-hove.gov.uk/f



iles/Brighton-Phase2



%20streets%20map.pdf





What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
This is how I would describe those roads:

Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph.

Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it?

Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top.

Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine.

A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians?


You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.
My view:

Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of.

Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph.

I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level.

I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.
[quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.[/p][/quote]This is how I would describe those roads: Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph. Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it? Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top. Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine. A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians? You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.[/p][/quote]My view: Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of. Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph. I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level. I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 4

6:14pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Oooh err says...

I can live with the 20mph limits and I drive in Brighton and Hove for a living, the problem is it is part of a raft of measures which experience shows has done nothing to improve traffic flow. If traffic flowed freely at 20 mph I think every driver would vote for it but on top of the ridiculous extended corners cropping up everywhere so anything larger than a green brain can't make the turn, the decreasing of roads from 2 lanes to 1 etc it appears little to offer.
There are many European cities where the limit is 30 km, less than 20mph, yet you don't sit in endless lines of traffic in the middle of the day like you do in Brighton. Instead of constant tweaking the city needs a radical overhaul of it's transport infrastructure with less reliance on a single private bus company and every possible means of transport considered.
I can live with the 20mph limits and I drive in Brighton and Hove for a living, the problem is it is part of a raft of measures which experience shows has done nothing to improve traffic flow. If traffic flowed freely at 20 mph I think every driver would vote for it but on top of the ridiculous extended corners cropping up everywhere so anything larger than a green brain can't make the turn, the decreasing of roads from 2 lanes to 1 etc it appears little to offer. There are many European cities where the limit is 30 km, less than 20mph, yet you don't sit in endless lines of traffic in the middle of the day like you do in Brighton. Instead of constant tweaking the city needs a radical overhaul of it's transport infrastructure with less reliance on a single private bus company and every possible means of transport considered. Oooh err
  • Score: 3

10:30pm Tue 19 Aug 14

her professional says...

Oooh err wrote:
I can live with the 20mph limits and I drive in Brighton and Hove for a living, the problem is it is part of a raft of measures which experience shows has done nothing to improve traffic flow. If traffic flowed freely at 20 mph I think every driver would vote for it but on top of the ridiculous extended corners cropping up everywhere so anything larger than a green brain can't make the turn, the decreasing of roads from 2 lanes to 1 etc it appears little to offer.
There are many European cities where the limit is 30 km, less than 20mph, yet you don't sit in endless lines of traffic in the middle of the day like you do in Brighton. Instead of constant tweaking the city needs a radical overhaul of it's transport infrastructure with less reliance on a single private bus company and every possible means of transport considered.
Reliance on a single bus company.........and Stagecoach, Compass, Sussex Bus, Big Lemon..........and anyone else with the necessary qualifications to hold an Operators licence can register their routes and put their buses on the streets. The current bus service is an ongoing success story, with higher ridership than anywhere in the country outside London.
[quote][p][bold]Oooh err[/bold] wrote: I can live with the 20mph limits and I drive in Brighton and Hove for a living, the problem is it is part of a raft of measures which experience shows has done nothing to improve traffic flow. If traffic flowed freely at 20 mph I think every driver would vote for it but on top of the ridiculous extended corners cropping up everywhere so anything larger than a green brain can't make the turn, the decreasing of roads from 2 lanes to 1 etc it appears little to offer. There are many European cities where the limit is 30 km, less than 20mph, yet you don't sit in endless lines of traffic in the middle of the day like you do in Brighton. Instead of constant tweaking the city needs a radical overhaul of it's transport infrastructure with less reliance on a single private bus company and every possible means of transport considered.[/p][/quote]Reliance on a single bus company.........and Stagecoach, Compass, Sussex Bus, Big Lemon..........and anyone else with the necessary qualifications to hold an Operators licence can register their routes and put their buses on the streets. The current bus service is an ongoing success story, with higher ridership than anywhere in the country outside London. her professional
  • Score: 0

12:01am Wed 20 Aug 14

Seagull John says...

I drive in Brighton every day and I don't think I see any reduction in driving speeds. However I see Carden Avenue strewn with 20 signs at the entrance to tiny roads where you couldn't get up to 20 mph. I see Warmdean Road at the junction with Carden Avenue with a 20 sign on the left and a 30 sign on the right. I see West Street up to the station gridlocked. I see cyclists ignoring everything including their own cycle lanes and lately I see a huge rise in idiot pedestrians who just walk in to the road without looking, even if they aren't wearing headphones. I'm actually finding pedestrians the most careless and, for that reason, endangered road sharers at the moment.
I drive in Brighton every day and I don't think I see any reduction in driving speeds. However I see Carden Avenue strewn with 20 signs at the entrance to tiny roads where you couldn't get up to 20 mph. I see Warmdean Road at the junction with Carden Avenue with a 20 sign on the left and a 30 sign on the right. I see West Street up to the station gridlocked. I see cyclists ignoring everything including their own cycle lanes and lately I see a huge rise in idiot pedestrians who just walk in to the road without looking, even if they aren't wearing headphones. I'm actually finding pedestrians the most careless and, for that reason, endangered road sharers at the moment. Seagull John
  • Score: 1

9:57am Wed 20 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

notslimjim wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
notslimjim wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
theargusissoinformat







ive
wrote:
yatman wrote:
aat99 wrote:
We love Red Billy wrote:
aat99 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
aat99 wrote:
One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit.

5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins

5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference
If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!)

So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.
That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours.
It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time.

The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives.

But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely
It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.
Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....
I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.
'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's.

The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.
Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.
Some responsible parent you are!
Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.
What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit.

Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.
He didn't say that.

Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others?


So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?
You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.
A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it.

He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users.

I showed that suggestion to be nonsense.
What have you shown? I'd put money on there being some correlation with people who speed having other anti-social traits. If not anti-social, then certainly self-centred and narcissistic.
[quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notslimjim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yatman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]We love Red Billy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: One key point people seem to forget ... the police may not actively enforce it but if you cause someone a bad injury in a 20mph zone and you are travelling at 38mph because you don't care ... you will be treated rather differently than in a 30mph zone as you are at nearly double the speed limit. 5 miles at 20 mph = 15 mins 5 miles at 30 mph = 10 mins .... wow that 5 mins makes all the difference[/p][/quote]If you are a delivery driver working an 8 hour day that would take your day to 12 hours. That's quite a difference! And a big cost for any business in Brighton. This is making local businesses less attractive as they have to bear more of the costs, large businesses can absorb them across other areas. I have noticed how much more expensive local businesses and tradespeople are - and have found it's now cheaper to get people to travel in from Worthing/Eastbourne (although this won't last as they are surprised how bad traffic is, but by then they have given a price!) So the greens are actually being anti local business, exactly opposite to their stated aims! And encouraging more driving. Again opposite to their aims.[/p][/quote]That is not quite true as you are assuming that you are driving for all 8 hours which if you are a delivery driver you won't be as you are delivering part of the time ! But I do accept that your day will be longer but not by 4 hours. It also assumes that you can always go at 30mph in Brighton which if you read other posts it appears not as Brighton is gridlocked a lot of the time. The post about pollution is not entirely true either. It very much depends on the efficiency of the car etc. Also the pollution both from the engine and from the brakes depends also on how someone drives. But the main point that very few of the go faster brigade don't want to address is that if you hit someone at 20mph they prob will walk away ... and 30 not so certain ... at 40 unlikely[/p][/quote]It was hardly a charnal house before the 20mph restrictions were brought in. The roads of Brighton and Hove were not running red with the blood of children and mature folk. The trick is look before you step out on the road or Mr Darwin will get you.[/p][/quote]Yes it's very easy to be clever and state the obvious ... life isn't like that. A mate I used to play sport with got knocked down by a taxi when drunk. Yes it was probably his fault but it doesn't stop him from being in a wheelchair the rest of his life with various other issues. Whilst we don't have that many casualties and serious injuries from road accidents in Brighton & Hove for the friends and family involved with the victim it is one too many. Hopefully you won't experience this and maybe just dropping your speed a little isn't too much to give up in order to prevent a serious accident ....[/p][/quote]I don't want to be unsympathetic but unfortunately your mate got the big lesson in life that your actions can have consequences. However, why should his stupidity impact upon my life? Why should we always bring things down to the lowest common denominator, to accommodate those who think there is always someone to blame. Its never their fault is it? I will drive to the conditions of the road wthout some pompous khara like Ian Davey telling me how to do it.[/p][/quote]'I will drive to the conditions of the road'. Would you happen to be the same type of motorist who charges along at 80mph on the A27 when there is foul weather and plenty of surface water? As soon as such self-centred assertions are allowed to take hold, you have the problem of one man's 'speeding thermostat' being different from another's. The main problem, is that motoring culture recognises and understands the Highway Code, but then chooses to ignore it in practice, because they know that they can get away with it. I'm a driver, and I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Davey can put his 20mph zones everywhere and anywhere he pleases, to knock a bit of sense into the anti-social petrolheads. Don't like it? F*** off to Germany.[/p][/quote]Ohhh, we are an angry little Green bunny aren't we. I won't be departing for Germany thank you. I'll just continue to ignore the 20mph speed limit as 99% of other drivers do. If you don't like that I'm sure there are some very cheap flights to Sark.[/p][/quote]Some responsible parent you are![/p][/quote]Oh for goodness sake. Only because you're being paid money by the council for this that doesn't mean it's valid or sensible. Accidents due to excessive speed haven't dropped and it's a complete waste of money because it's not enforced and a vast majority of people ignore it. A complete white elephant and you get all upset and call people names because you helped install it.[/p][/quote]What an odd comment. I cannot recall installing, nor being paid by the council for works pertaining to the 20mph limit. Sad to see you think it is reasonable to drive with little regard for others.[/p][/quote]He didn't say that. Do you honestly believe that the faster one drives, the less one regards others? So how come 99.9999999999999999% of motorway journeys are completed without incident?[/p][/quote]You know that you are now talking about roads that are big and wide enough for anti-social motoring to be tolerated; I should know, because I use the M27 most days at the moment.[/p][/quote]A road needs to be the width of a car for that car to be able to drive at any speed along it. He was suggesting that the faster someone drove, the less regard they gave other road users. I showed that suggestion to be nonsense.[/p][/quote]What have you shown? I'd put money on there being some correlation with people who speed having other anti-social traits. If not anti-social, then certainly self-centred and narcissistic. theargusissoinformative
  • Score: -3

10:22am Wed 20 Aug 14

theargusissoinformative says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat

ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat



ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.
This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy?

We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF?

If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers!
Everything that you seem to say presents another argument. And my real name is not Ian Davey. I'm not completely Green (in a watermelon sense), because there is something about them that seems to be Communists in disguise, EXCEPT THAT 20 MPH ZONES DO NOT REPRESENT THIS, unless you happen to think like Jeremy Clarkson. I suspect that this is why Ian Davey is not standing for re-election. I seem to remember that he refused to sign that disciplinary action for Christina Summerson.

You seem upset that your arguments don't close discussion as you would wish, and someone else who has posted on here has noted the cold-blooded heartlessness that seems to motivate some of the posts.

You must admit that there is an irony with car culture somehow representing the notion of freedom for some, when there can and will never be enough space on the roads to satisfy such demands.

And finally, my UKIP comment is merely a cultural observation. I've had a lot of discussions with different people over the years, and it would be fair to stick pro-UKIP and anti-Green together (because they seem to be the new working class right wing and left wing respectively). But obviously this does not apply to you, as you so vehemently try to use this to run me into the ground (metaphorically speaking).

And do you agree with the personal abuse that seems to be repeated on here on a regular basis against HJArrs?
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.[/p][/quote]Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.[/p][/quote]This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy? We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF? If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers![/p][/quote]Everything that you seem to say presents another argument. And my real name is not Ian Davey. I'm not completely Green (in a watermelon sense), because there is something about them that seems to be Communists in disguise, EXCEPT THAT 20 MPH ZONES DO NOT REPRESENT THIS, unless you happen to think like Jeremy Clarkson. I suspect that this is why Ian Davey is not standing for re-election. I seem to remember that he refused to sign that disciplinary action for Christina Summerson. You seem upset that your arguments don't close discussion as you would wish, and someone else who has posted on here has noted the cold-blooded heartlessness that seems to motivate some of the posts. You must admit that there is an irony with car culture somehow representing the notion of freedom for some, when there can and will never be enough space on the roads to satisfy such demands. And finally, my UKIP comment is merely a cultural observation. I've had a lot of discussions with different people over the years, and it would be fair to stick pro-UKIP and anti-Green together (because they seem to be the new working class right wing and left wing respectively). But obviously this does not apply to you, as you so vehemently try to use this to run me into the ground (metaphorically speaking). And do you agree with the personal abuse that seems to be repeated on here on a regular basis against HJArrs? theargusissoinformative
  • Score: 0

11:19am Wed 20 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

theargusissoinformat
ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat


ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
theargusissoinformat




ive
wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction.
I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like.
I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads.
The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.
I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up?

Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit.

It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.
You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.
Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive?

I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.
Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.
This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy?

We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF?

If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers!
Everything that you seem to say presents another argument. And my real name is not Ian Davey. I'm not completely Green (in a watermelon sense), because there is something about them that seems to be Communists in disguise, EXCEPT THAT 20 MPH ZONES DO NOT REPRESENT THIS, unless you happen to think like Jeremy Clarkson. I suspect that this is why Ian Davey is not standing for re-election. I seem to remember that he refused to sign that disciplinary action for Christina Summerson.

You seem upset that your arguments don't close discussion as you would wish, and someone else who has posted on here has noted the cold-blooded heartlessness that seems to motivate some of the posts.

You must admit that there is an irony with car culture somehow representing the notion of freedom for some, when there can and will never be enough space on the roads to satisfy such demands.

And finally, my UKIP comment is merely a cultural observation. I've had a lot of discussions with different people over the years, and it would be fair to stick pro-UKIP and anti-Green together (because they seem to be the new working class right wing and left wing respectively). But obviously this does not apply to you, as you so vehemently try to use this to run me into the ground (metaphorically speaking).

And do you agree with the personal abuse that seems to be repeated on here on a regular basis against HJArrs?
I don't see the Green Party as representing the working class - they are strongly made up of the middle classes and academics who seem to have very little understanding that many people are struggling financially. For example, trying to increase council tax by such a large percentage. Often their answer to any criticism is to tell people to 'move out of Brighton if you don't like it.' Even though most of their councillors are not local and will be deserting Brighton like rats on a sinking ship come May 2015.

HJarrs can be very patronising and insulting and has been the mouthpiece of the greens on this paper for some time. I ignore most of his posts so they don't bother me but I can understand why he gets flack.

Having looked at the results of the consultations on 20mph and particularly on the Lewes Road scheme, I feel that they have been a sham with people outside the area that are pro-Green being invited to have a say. Even when people have voted no, they have 'weighted' the results so that they become a yes vote.

Despite all this, I don't disagree with everything the Green Party have done - for example, the living wage is a good thing - but they do seem very out of touch with the electorate.
[quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theargusissoinformat ive[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: I think the 20mph zones are great and yes I do drive. I live on Bear Road which has recently become part of the zone and noise levels are greatly improved by the speed reduction. I don't think it has increased my journey times when I am driving, I've noticed that impatient drivers who don't stick to 20mph are often sat at traffic lights when I get there - hare & the tortoise like. I think walking around the city is much more pleasant since the speed limits were introduced and as a father I feel much better about my daughter being out on the roads. The Greens are doing an excellent job in making the city more pleasant with this and other schemes. This is a very busy city that is fuelled by tourism, taming the traffic is vital to the cities prosperity.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree with this. Bear Road is no different to how it was before the implementation of the 20 zone. Everyone still does 30mph. Perhaps you see them going at 20mph when you are in your car and holding the traffic up? Personally, I struggle to drive at 20mph - I'm constantly changing gear from 2nd to 3rd and back again. 20 in 2nd gear makes the engine labour but 20mph in 3rd gear has the opposite problem. I have completely ignored the 20mph zones and will continue to do so - unless I am on a street that warrants a 20mph limit. It's a waste of time asking us for an opinion - the Green Party will ignore the results.[/p][/quote]You seem to be admitting that some people seem to be unable to train their cars to do 20 mph, like they're uncontrollable dogs/teenagers. If I need to go at 20 mph, I find it really easy. You seem to have hit the nail on the head, but you kind of imply that Ian Davey needs to come up with a special motoring education course that teaches you how to suck eggs.[/p][/quote]Perhaps your car has a different size engine to mine. My car is ok doing 25mph in 3rd but not 20mph. What do you want me to do, take you for a test drive? I would love to see Ian Davey doing a special course in egg sucking. Hopefully he will choke on it.[/p][/quote]Then why can't you use second gear, or even first? You might say that this pollutes more, but this would appear to be an insincere argument on your part. Accept it - you just don't like being told what to do by anyone. You're a law unto yourself. If it wasn't for this stuff, you'd just be shouting 'vote UKIP'.[/p][/quote]This is the second time you have replied to my post. You sound like a bit of an obsessive. Perhaps you are Ian Davy? We are talking about huge amounts of money being wasted on a scheme that virtually nobody (even the police) abides by. How does disagreeing with this scheme make me pro-UKIP? WTF? If I am a law unto myself, then you are a little dictator who likes telling other people what to think. How pathetic, trying to imply I am anti-immigration simply because I don't agree with a road scheme. Bonkers![/p][/quote]Everything that you seem to say presents another argument. And my real name is not Ian Davey. I'm not completely Green (in a watermelon sense), because there is something about them that seems to be Communists in disguise, EXCEPT THAT 20 MPH ZONES DO NOT REPRESENT THIS, unless you happen to think like Jeremy Clarkson. I suspect that this is why Ian Davey is not standing for re-election. I seem to remember that he refused to sign that disciplinary action for Christina Summerson. You seem upset that your arguments don't close discussion as you would wish, and someone else who has posted on here has noted the cold-blooded heartlessness that seems to motivate some of the posts. You must admit that there is an irony with car culture somehow representing the notion of freedom for some, when there can and will never be enough space on the roads to satisfy such demands. And finally, my UKIP comment is merely a cultural observation. I've had a lot of discussions with different people over the years, and it would be fair to stick pro-UKIP and anti-Green together (because they seem to be the new working class right wing and left wing respectively). But obviously this does not apply to you, as you so vehemently try to use this to run me into the ground (metaphorically speaking). And do you agree with the personal abuse that seems to be repeated on here on a regular basis against HJArrs?[/p][/quote]I don't see the Green Party as representing the working class - they are strongly made up of the middle classes and academics who seem to have very little understanding that many people are struggling financially. For example, trying to increase council tax by such a large percentage. Often their answer to any criticism is to tell people to 'move out of Brighton if you don't like it.' Even though most of their councillors are not local and will be deserting Brighton like rats on a sinking ship come May 2015. HJarrs can be very patronising and insulting and has been the mouthpiece of the greens on this paper for some time. I ignore most of his posts so they don't bother me but I can understand why he gets flack. Having looked at the results of the consultations on 20mph and particularly on the Lewes Road scheme, I feel that they have been a sham with people outside the area that are pro-Green being invited to have a say. Even when people have voted no, they have 'weighted' the results so that they become a yes vote. Despite all this, I don't disagree with everything the Green Party have done - for example, the living wage is a good thing - but they do seem very out of touch with the electorate. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 4

11:29am Wed 20 Aug 14

MrDavis says...

Half the car journeys made in Brighton are unnecessary anyway. I have a car that I use when I really need to, but most of the time when travelling locally I walk or use the bus.
Seriously what are people moaning about? A 10mph reduction in speed..big deal. The council are trying to make the city more pleasant to live in.
I don't know anyone in real life who is opposed to the scheme, this forum just seems to attract bigotted right wing freaks who are unrepresentative of the Brighton populace. Embarrassing really..
Half the car journeys made in Brighton are unnecessary anyway. I have a car that I use when I really need to, but most of the time when travelling locally I walk or use the bus. Seriously what are people moaning about? A 10mph reduction in speed..big deal. The council are trying to make the city more pleasant to live in. I don't know anyone in real life who is opposed to the scheme, this forum just seems to attract bigotted right wing freaks who are unrepresentative of the Brighton populace. Embarrassing really.. MrDavis
  • Score: -4

6:05pm Wed 20 Aug 14

thevindicator says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Is this nutter for real???
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Is this nutter for real??? thevindicator
  • Score: 2

6:29pm Wed 20 Aug 14

Jaguar_uk says...

As a non brighton resident I can honestly say I avoid brighton like the plague because of its attitude towards motorists and I know many others are put off as well.
30mph is perfectly sensible limit, although in reality most of time because of the congestion caused by the councils other motorist hating policies it is rarely possible to actually achieve 30 mph.
It is obvious from the comments on her that the 20 mph scheme is not popular with the majority, but since when did small things like that ever worry those in power?
When these idiots get into power they treat the public with contempt, thinking that we are stupid and therefore need their interference in absolutely everything.
Why do they never listen to the voters?
As a non brighton resident I can honestly say I avoid brighton like the plague because of its attitude towards motorists and I know many others are put off as well. 30mph is perfectly sensible limit, although in reality most of time because of the congestion caused by the councils other motorist hating policies it is rarely possible to actually achieve 30 mph. It is obvious from the comments on her that the 20 mph scheme is not popular with the majority, but since when did small things like that ever worry those in power? When these idiots get into power they treat the public with contempt, thinking that we are stupid and therefore need their interference in absolutely everything. Why do they never listen to the voters? Jaguar_uk
  • Score: 3

6:55pm Wed 20 Aug 14

Gribbet says...

G Wiley wrote:
@her professional and @HJarrs - do you actually think that the amount of bovine excrement that you post here will actually convince anyone to change their minds?

All you manage to do is to polarize opinion and get even more people p*ssed off with the green party and their view that they are so intelligent; they know what is best for everyone, and they don't need to take account of anyone else's opinions or views.

The ignored and unenforcable 20 mph zones, the minimally used cycle lanes, and the dedication of large swathes of the roads to buses queuing through the centre of the city has lead to worsening pollution levels.

How could the green party representatives be so irresponsibly incompetent? Discuss!
@her professional and @HJarrs - looks like you woke the dinosaur up.

Another cut and paste response brought to you by Pachallisaurus.
[quote][p][bold]G Wiley[/bold] wrote: @her professional and @HJarrs - do you actually think that the amount of bovine excrement that you post here will actually convince anyone to change their minds? All you manage to do is to polarize opinion and get even more people p*ssed off with the green party and their view that they are so intelligent; they know what is best for everyone, and they don't need to take account of anyone else's opinions or views. The ignored and unenforcable 20 mph zones, the minimally used cycle lanes, and the dedication of large swathes of the roads to buses queuing through the centre of the city has lead to worsening pollution levels. How could the green party representatives be so irresponsibly incompetent? Discuss![/p][/quote]@her professional and @HJarrs - looks like you woke the dinosaur up. Another cut and paste response brought to you by Pachallisaurus. Gribbet
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MartinDE says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-




hove.gov.uk/sites/br




ighton-hove.gov.uk/f




iles/Brighton-Phase2




%20streets%20map.pdf






What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
This is how I would describe those roads:

Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph.

Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it?

Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top.

Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine.

A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians?


You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.
My view:

Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of.

Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph.

I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level.

I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.
Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit.

Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it.

The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city?

All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people.

You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.[/p][/quote]This is how I would describe those roads: Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph. Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it? Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top. Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine. A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians? You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.[/p][/quote]My view: Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of. Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph. I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level. I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.[/p][/quote]Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit. Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it. The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city? All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people. You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals. MartinDE
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Thu 21 Aug 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-





hove.gov.uk/sites/br





ighton-hove.gov.uk/f





iles/Brighton-Phase2





%20streets%20map.pdf







What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
This is how I would describe those roads:

Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph.

Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it?

Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top.

Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine.

A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians?


You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.
My view:

Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of.

Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph.

I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level.

I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.
Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit.

Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it.

The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city?

All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people.

You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals.
I didn't say it was an injustice. I just feel it is unworkable and a waste of public funds. I feel the money should have been spent on traffic calming measures on certain roads, rather than road signs that are ignored. Judging by the comments above, most people agree.

I am a local person who uses the Level and it is set far back from the road with crossings at every exit. You are probably more likely to be run over by accidentally wandering into the cycle path. I cycle too, in case you accuse me of being some Jeremy Clarkson anti-cyclist lunatic!
[quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.[/p][/quote]This is how I would describe those roads: Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph. Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it? Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top. Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine. A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians? You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.[/p][/quote]My view: Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of. Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph. I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level. I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.[/p][/quote]Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit. Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it. The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city? All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people. You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals.[/p][/quote]I didn't say it was an injustice. I just feel it is unworkable and a waste of public funds. I feel the money should have been spent on traffic calming measures on certain roads, rather than road signs that are ignored. Judging by the comments above, most people agree. I am a local person who uses the Level and it is set far back from the road with crossings at every exit. You are probably more likely to be run over by accidentally wandering into the cycle path. I cycle too, in case you accuse me of being some Jeremy Clarkson anti-cyclist lunatic! thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 1

4:11pm Thu 21 Aug 14

MartinDE says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
MartinDE wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
MrDavis wrote:
It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.
Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult.

I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.
So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.
They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red):

http://www.brighton-






hove.gov.uk/sites/br






ighton-hove.gov.uk/f






iles/Brighton-Phase2






%20streets%20map.pdf








What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?
Lewes Road
Upper Lewes Road
Viaduct Road
Old Steine/A23


Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
This is how I would describe those roads:

Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph.

Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it?

Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top.

Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine.

A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians?


You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.
My view:

Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of.

Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph.

I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level.

I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.
Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit.

Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it.

The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city?

All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people.

You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals.
I didn't say it was an injustice. I just feel it is unworkable and a waste of public funds. I feel the money should have been spent on traffic calming measures on certain roads, rather than road signs that are ignored. Judging by the comments above, most people agree.

I am a local person who uses the Level and it is set far back from the road with crossings at every exit. You are probably more likely to be run over by accidentally wandering into the cycle path. I cycle too, in case you accuse me of being some Jeremy Clarkson anti-cyclist lunatic!
If you think road signs and paint on the tarmac are expensive, you should see the cost of chicanes and speed bumps! As to being "unworkable", is it really beyond the wit of drivers to drive a bit slower? What's so special about 30mph that drivers can do it but not 20mph?

The long-term goal, nationally, is for 20mph to become the norm on urban streets, at which point the Highway Code is updated and the signs become unnecessary. I give it 10 years.

I wouldn't say "most people agree" on anything based on the comments section of a paper like The Argus.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MartinDE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrDavis[/bold] wrote: It's hilarious that some people are so upset just cos they have to drive their precious cars a bit slower. It's not just Brighton, it will be in every city soon Bristol, Nottingham, Cambridge, Edinburgh & Birmingham are all rolling it out and many smaller towns & cities already have a 20 mph limit. Get used to it.[/p][/quote]Yep and I have been driving in York, Cambridge and Nottingham in the past year and all, particularly the latter have and continue to introduce 20mph zones. As a visitor to their cities (and unlike some of the morons who post on here) I treat the locals with respect by observing the speed limit. It wasn't very difficult. I did point out to a Notts yokel who was extolling the virtues of the proposed new tram line, bus and cycle lanes and 20mph zones, to be ready for the backlash from the selfish minority of drivers that give others little consideration.[/p][/quote]So in those cities, had they made the entire city 20mph? Or did they apply the limits sensibly to certain areas, leaving major roads at 30mph? You see, most people would accept 20mph applied sensibly to certain roads and in the centre of town, but a blanket approach means people ignore it altogether.[/p][/quote]They have probably left the major roads at 30mph, as they have done in Brighton. This Phase 2 map shows the major routes as 30mph (red): http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/sites/br ighton-hove.gov.uk/f iles/Brighton-Phase2 %20streets%20map.pdf What major roads specifically do you have in mind that have been reduced to 20mph and shouldn't have?[/p][/quote]Lewes Road Upper Lewes Road Viaduct Road Old Steine/A23 Are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.[/p][/quote]This is how I would describe those roads: Lewes Road: 30mph north of the Vogue Giratory! 20mph south of there, on a very busy street full of shops, restaurants, a church, a pub, pedestrians, parking bays, bus stops, pedestrian crossings, cycle lanes, double-parked cars and plenty of traffic: a perfect candidate for 20mph. Upper Lewes Road: a 500m-long road with a pub and lots of housing with narrow pavements and obstructions (parked cars and communal bins). The residents there have put up with years of fast, loud traffic. Reducing the speed from 30mph to 20mph makes your journey longer by just 18 seconds. Worth it? Viaduct Road: residents have put up with people hammering it up the hill for years. Houses on both sides that spill out onto a narrow pavement. The amount of time you'd lose by going up it at 20mph instead of 30mph? 11 seconds. Many drivers speed up it even though they can see the red lights at the top. Old Steine: a key pedestrian, tourist area with sharp turns for traffic and lots of traffic lights. How often does anybody hit 30mph there anyway? You said yourself that most people would accept 20mph "in the centre of town"; it doesn't get much more centre than the Old Steine. A23: which part? London Road, full of shops, crossings and pedestrians? You may well disagree, but I believe that is part of the thinking behind them being 20mph. I can't see how any of those should be 30mph.[/p][/quote]My view: Lewes Road - unnecessary. Plenty of controlled crossings and a main artery into Brighton. Were there lots of accidents on Lewes Road while it was 30mph? Not that I know of. Viaduct Road - has always been a busy road. That is why property prices are cheaper and it is mostly inhabited by students. Also a main route through the city. I live on a road like this myself and did not vote for 20mph. I did not mention London Road. Old Steine - well I actually mean Victoria Gardens/The Level - going south into town from Lewes Road. But when you look at a map, it just says A23 and not the road name. So I don't mean the bottom near St James' St but the stretch past the Level. I think the proliferation of 20mph signs has actually made people speed on all roads, even those where 20mph is necessary. The fact it is everywhere means little attention is paid to it. I have not seen one police car stick to the limit. They all do 30mph. The only people that seem to adhere to the limit are bus drivers.[/p][/quote]Lewes Road: with the amount of pedestrians, bikes, buses, double parking and crossings on that road, I'm glad that the national consensus (implemented by every major political party) is that those kinds of city streets should be 20mph for everyone's benefit. Viaduct Road: I don't buy the argument that, just because it's always been a terrible road for everyone except motor vehicles, it should remain so. All they've done is added 11 seconds to the driving time to improve the environment for the local people that use it. The Level: Is it really so much of a problem to slow down slightly for 200m next to one of the most popular children's playgrounds in the city? All in all, I don't see it as a terrible injustice against drivers that we're slightly reprioritising the use of our public space to make it more pleasant for most people. You're showing very little confidence in drivers when you say that having 20mph signs around town is going to make them start driving faster around hospitals.[/p][/quote]I didn't say it was an injustice. I just feel it is unworkable and a waste of public funds. I feel the money should have been spent on traffic calming measures on certain roads, rather than road signs that are ignored. Judging by the comments above, most people agree. I am a local person who uses the Level and it is set far back from the road with crossings at every exit. You are probably more likely to be run over by accidentally wandering into the cycle path. I cycle too, in case you accuse me of being some Jeremy Clarkson anti-cyclist lunatic![/p][/quote]If you think road signs and paint on the tarmac are expensive, you should see the cost of chicanes and speed bumps! As to being "unworkable", is it really beyond the wit of drivers to drive a bit slower? What's so special about 30mph that drivers can do it but not 20mph? The long-term goal, nationally, is for 20mph to become the norm on urban streets, at which point the Highway Code is updated and the signs become unnecessary. I give it 10 years. I wouldn't say "most people agree" on anything based on the comments section of a paper like The Argus. MartinDE
  • Score: -1

2:58pm Mon 25 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
You talk such a load of nonsense, no one agrees with you, just look at the votes against your post. Why should everything revolve around cyclists and pedestrians. Roads are built for vehicles or don't you understand that? Pedestrians should stick to the pavements and the money spent on these ridiculous speed limit signs should have been spent on installing more pedestrian crossings.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]You talk such a load of nonsense, no one agrees with you, just look at the votes against your post. Why should everything revolve around cyclists and pedestrians. Roads are built for vehicles or don't you understand that? Pedestrians should stick to the pavements and the money spent on these ridiculous speed limit signs should have been spent on installing more pedestrian crossings. DCCCCCC
  • Score: 3

3:04pm Mon 25 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

Nick Brighton wrote:
Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.
You are very very sad then. I and everyone I know get very stressed if some plonker drives at 20mph where it isn't necessary and even overtake them!
[quote][p][bold]Nick Brighton[/bold] wrote: Take it from me, driving everywhere at 20mph is great. I feel so much less stressed. Even if they change it back to 30, I shall still drive at 20.[/p][/quote]You are very very sad then. I and everyone I know get very stressed if some plonker drives at 20mph where it isn't necessary and even overtake them! DCCCCCC
  • Score: 3

3:31pm Mon 25 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

thevindicator wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city.

It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times.

20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included!

I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.
Is this nutter for real???
Sadly I think so!
[quote][p][bold]thevindicator[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more enforcement of 20mph limits, though I have no doubt that speeds have reduced across the city. It is sad that we see the usual tired complaints; just because you can physically drive at a higher speed does not make it right to do so. Lower road speeds make the streets more attractive for pedestrians and cyclists and make little or no difference to journey times. 20mph limits have proved so popular that areas left out of the last round demanded to be included! I hope the B&H have applied for the trial of driverless cars, the limit will be enforced by default as these vehicles will stick to the limit. Driverless cars could be common in a few years time, then it will be pretty much game over for urban speeding.[/p][/quote]Is this nutter for real???[/p][/quote]Sadly I think so! DCCCCCC
  • Score: 3

4:15pm Mon 25 Aug 14

DCCCCCC says...

http://www.iam.org.u
k/media-and-research
/media-centre/news-a
rchive/20505-casualt
ies-increase-in-20mp
h-zones

More reason NOT to introduce 20mph zones anywhere!
http://www.iam.org.u k/media-and-research /media-centre/news-a rchive/20505-casualt ies-increase-in-20mp h-zones More reason NOT to introduce 20mph zones anywhere! DCCCCCC
  • Score: 1

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