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Outrage at Albion pundits' disabled jibe


Two BBC radio presenters face the sack after insulting disabled people live on an Albion phone-in show.

Andrew Hawes and Ian Hart have been taken off the airwaves at BBC Southern Counties after using the phrase “window licker” – a derogatory term for a disabled person.

The BBC refused to confirm what action was being taken against the broadcasters but issued an “unreserved apology”.

However, The Argus understands that both have been suspended and disciplinary hearings will take place next week.

Mr Hart, who has been hosting the post-match phone-in for ten years, last night apologised for the gaffe and conceded that what he had said was “grossly inappropriate”.

The furore erupted after Mr Hart told a fan to “go and lick a window” in a row about manager Micky Adams after Albion’s win over Leyton Orient on Tuesday night. His comment was followed by Mr Hawes urging “any window lickers out there” to call the show.

The outburst sparked fury among disabled charities.

A spokeswoman for Mencap said: “We are appalled that such offensive language is still used.

“People with a learning disability are a valuable part of our society and it is a disgrace that they are treated as objects to make fun of. We are pleased to see this was taken seriously by the BBC and hope that they discipline the presenters appropriately.”

Ian MacRae, editor of Disability Now magazine, said: “It is unacceptable that people on public radio believe they can come out with stuff like this. I urge anyone who was offended to complain to the regulator.”

Mr Hawes, who has commentated on Albion games for several years, yesterday declined to comment.

But Mr Hart, 44, said: “I apologised unreservedly three times on air and I apologise again now. In that split second I didn’t realise the severity of what I was saying.

“I now know it was grossly inappropriate.”

Brighton and Hove Albion and a charity for people with learning disabilities last night sprang to Mr Hart’s defence.

Sussex Seals said its members adored Mr Hart and the furore was “political madness gone extremely mad”.

Albion spokesman Paul Camillin said: “Ian is a caring and compassionate individual and does a lot of fine work in the community, much of it out of the media spotlight.

“At our recent home game against Walsall he brought a party of ill and disabled children to the match.

“There is no doubt Ian’s comments were misjudged but they were said in the heat of the moment and I know he is devastated that he has offended anybody.”

Yesterday opinions were split among fans on North Stand Chat, with dozens rallying to support Mr Hart while others called for him to be sacked.

A BBC spokeswoman said: “We issue an unreserved apology for the comments that have been made.

“The BBC takes this kind of issue extremely seriously and action is being taken.”

What is your opinion on the comments made my the presenters? Comment below.

Comments(63)

NoWayIsBack says...
9:52am Fri 10 Oct 08

haha... window licker is also a song by Aphex Twin. it's great.

hpacc1 says...
9:58am Fri 10 Oct 08

My brothers disabled, and I dont find these comments particularly offensive. Harty and Hawes were silly to say it, but no way is it a sackable offence. Give them a ticking off, and then get them back on the air!

Redbeard says...
9:59am Fri 10 Oct 08

I have never even heard this phrase before, why are they called window lickers???

debbie ferris says...
10:27am Fri 10 Oct 08

these guys are the next best thing to brighton and hove albion football club, yes was a slip of tongue, but please should not end up like this, 'sussex seals' adore them and so do i, lets not forget what they do for charity too, i for one will not listen to radio until they are back where they deserve to be - they are tremendous x

whatithink says...
10:45am Fri 10 Oct 08

For goodness, sake this is a storm in a teacup, and hardly a sackable offence.
The same week in which Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse have been taken to task over a sketch that involved Filipino maid.
Have we lost our sense of humour?
This is poilitical correctness gone mad.
It seems though that the only people to have complained are organisations representing the disabled.
Maybe disabled people themselves have more of a sense of humour than the PC crazy Ian McRae.

jeff woad says...
10:46am Fri 10 Oct 08

I didn't hear it and it's an unfortunate phrase but surely the esteemed Messrs Hart and Hawes simply used the term to refer to the idiotic members of Albion supporters rather than those who actually licks windows. Or is that being too generous?
And is standing in the rain at Withdean watching inferior football any less silly than licking windows anyway, given the realtive costs?

mikestone says...
10:54am Fri 10 Oct 08

It was an error yes but to talk of sackings is ridiculous. Typical starchy BBC - get a life

johnashdown says...
11:03am Fri 10 Oct 08

cant believe the idiots on north stand chats suggestions of managers to replace mickey adams they are the sick one as one wanted alan ball these are the people ro repremand not Ian Har or Andrew hawes

Portlock Seagull says...
11:05am Fri 10 Oct 08

No action taken against Joe Kinnear, who never apologised either. Just goes to show the double standards WE ALL have when judging others. Live and let live. Harty MAKES the show.

LB says...
11:09am Fri 10 Oct 08

"This is poilitical correctness gone mad."

'Political correctness living with mental health issues', surely?

CJN says...
11:11am Fri 10 Oct 08

As a regular listener to the commentary and Ian Hart’s show and somebody whose work brings them into regular contact with people with a learning disability I find nothing offensive in what was said. Disability and a sense of humour are not mutually incompatible. A little misjudged in the heat of the moment maybe, and not something that would come from a script writer but in an age when we find Lou and Andy out of Little Britain acceptable I think it’s churlish to start baying for dismissals for something as trivial as this. Ian’s track record with voluntary work for the disabled speaks for itself and don’t forget his day job either.

Cap'n Pugwash says...
11:20am Fri 10 Oct 08

What a load of bollards! A throw away comment by Hart and Hawes gets them suspended. Meanwhile the BBC shows Little Britain ridiculing physical disabilities, cross dressers and more. Bl00dy hypocrites.

Double standards and political correctness gone mad. If they had meant to insult people with mental difficulties fair enough, suspend them-even give them the elbow permanently, but they didn't. Re-instate them now. Soon we won't be able to say anything for fear of offending somebody.

Gray says...
11:24am Fri 10 Oct 08

My Son has severe learning disabilities I heard the comments on the radio & was not offended in the slightest.
I get the impression nowadays some saddos sit at home watching TV & listening to radio waiting to be offended so they can get their kicks out of complaining to the watchdogs.

Eddie from Eastbourne says...
11:29am Fri 10 Oct 08

I have to agree with a lot of the previous posts. I didn’t even know what the comment meant. Maybe I’m naïve, or I've been sheltered, with the last 40-years divided between live in the army and in the construction industry. There are far greater ills being carried out in this world to worry about. The maniacs have taken over the asylum. They have apologised, let it rest.

seagullsovergrimsby says...
11:45am Fri 10 Oct 08

Harty was incensed that a clique on North Stand Chat are conspiring an online campaign to replace Micky Adams even though he has only been back a few months. After a few bad results these moaners and whingers have obviously upset Harty to the point that he mentioned their antics on air and advised them to go and lick a window. Harty realised what he said and made apologies and that should be the end of it in my book.

feline1 says...
12:25pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Argus, why did you censor my mention of Aphex Twin's "WINDOWLICKER" ? It is highly relevant and indeed probably where these DJs got the phrase from!

Anneka says...
12:48pm Fri 10 Oct 08

How stupid to sack them because of that!! i agree a telling off but they shouldn't be sacked over it bring them back otherwise the show won't be the same without them.

albionvicar says...
12:54pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Full support to Andrew and Ian, when you run a lively, popular and humourous show live, occasionally something will slip out. Thats entertainment as they say. Clearly Ian does his bit with the under privilaged community far more than most.

Daisy Johnson says...
1:13pm Fri 10 Oct 08

These guys have apologised, let them keep their jobs and forget the whole thing ever happened.I am sorry but this country is obsessed with PC. Anyone can make a mistake.

pauli says...
1:16pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Interestingly, no comments yet posted agreeing with the BBC. These guys have been doing a great job for the BBC and the Albion for many years. Harty doesn't even have to do it - he does it out of love for the Albion. A sad day for Albion, free speech and good old-fashioned banter on the radio if they are not reinstated.

quedula says...
1:53pm Fri 10 Oct 08

The phrase seems too obscure for offence to be taken. Can anyone explain the reference so that we can all be outraged?

Scorpion says...
2:02pm Fri 10 Oct 08

I confess its a new phrase to me and not one I would immediately associate with any group of people. I'm almost wondering if Hawes knew about it or was just re-acting to invite anyone who thought it might apply to them to phone in.

I'm starting to think the thought police are getting really sharp. Before anyone realises that a new phrase is offensive and to whom, they've already reacted, arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced the miscreant. I'd didnt even have time to be outraged (and I'm still not sure what for).

nkwbtn says...
2:03pm Fri 10 Oct 08

They have said they are sorry. They seem genuine. The apology should be accepted and all move on.

seagullsovergrimsby says...
2:04pm Fri 10 Oct 08

feline1 wrote:
Argus, why did you censor my mention of Aphex Twin's "WINDOWLICKER" ? It is highly relevant and indeed probably where these DJs got the phrase from!
NO , I think the phrase is from another thread on North Stand Chat referring to Lewes FC's "hooligan" element at the pre season friendly.

seagullsovergrimsby says...
2:24pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Apologies , the phrase initially related to some teenage oiks from Brighton who turned up at the friendly thinking they were a crew. As they were not wearing colours and didn't seem to know anything about the Albion they were not Brighton supporters. As they were so few in number I thought initially they may have been from Lewes for which I apologise again.

krobinson says...
2:31pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Pathetic. It is not even a story. Reinstate them, sack the BBC people who suspended them and the MENCAP representative as their time could be much better spent and let common sense prevail. It's time the PC brigade were shown the door permanently, they serve no purpose in a DEMOCRACY, which means a right to free speech.

chrisbrighton says...
2:32pm Fri 10 Oct 08

No ifs, no buts...just sack them

Guerrero says...
2:42pm Fri 10 Oct 08

A very insensitive and thoughtless thing to say,but Harty has always walked a bit of a thin line as far as his humour goes.
They've apologised and a donation of a grand each to charity should suffice to keep them their jobs.

Frank Graham says...
2:56pm Fri 10 Oct 08

outrageous how my licence money is being used to fund such offensive insulting derogatory remarks, for 1 to say then the other to joke about it is beyond belief. These guys obviously dont care as its not the first time they have hurled insulting remarks around at others. To think they can buy their way out of this adds insult to injury. DISGUSTING!

whatithink says...
2:57pm Fri 10 Oct 08

chrisbrighton wrote:
No ifs, no buts...just sack them
err... why? Because of a slightly dodgy gag said in the heat of the moment?
If you're that easily offended I suggest you stay indoors, turn off the telly and radio, and unplug your computer.

Scudster says...
3:11pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Rabbit hutcher; cat twiddler; baby griper; snot worbler; grunge dweeber; zit knobbler;..... Just 6 more obscure insults, previously unheard of by 99% of the population - and very mildly offensive to 0.1% of the rest..! To whisper them on the BBC would obviously be a crime worthy of extended incarceration...

The whole world is envious of the liberality of the BBC you know... What do they know??!!

Daisy Johnson says...
3:20pm Fri 10 Oct 08

from all the comments so far, the only people who have been made to look silly are the BBC and Ian MacRae. We must get enough people to contribute to this site in order that Andrew and Ian are reinstated. Please tell all your friends and colleagues to enter their comments and perhaps The Argus will send them to the BBC, forget Mr MacRae, he's not important, and we can get the boys back in their jobs.

stickman says...
3:40pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Strange - I have heard the term window licker used for someone who is acting stupid, as it seems to have been intended in this case, but didn't relate it to someone with real mental health problems. It's a shame that Mencap and Mr MacRae believe that the mentally ill are in fact just being stupid rather than trying to cope with genuine health issues.

Good luck Hawes and Harty - I will miss you if they sack you and won't bother listening to SCR anymore but with an employer like that you are probably better off without them.

B-hove says...
4:02pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Harty and Hawes have been complete idiots and they know it. The BBC have acted promptly and responsibly but now they need to follow-up propitiously. H&H have said sorry and that seems genuine. Harty's 'phone-in is great and wouldn't be the same with anyone else. Let's hope it is "lesson learnt" and let's move on.

CGull1 says...
4:07pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Oh my god no, they said what.... was anyone offended, probably not, apoligise and move on. I suppose we can't tell racist or homophobic jokes either. What is this country coming to.

twicer says...
5:13pm Fri 10 Oct 08

How ridiculous. What is this country coming to. I am sure that Ian Hart and Andrew Hawse did not mean their comments to be taken as an affront to disabled people. Why would they?. It is because they are passionate about the albion that something like this slips out. The only problem I can see is the attitude the notorious left wing BBC might take. I can't believe that they will sack 2 good commentators

getreal says...
6:02pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Apart from the fact that he would benefit from voice training, hart and his co-presenters do a good job. For heavens sake, is this furore a proportionate response? I hope that if they are disciplined then it will be six of the best or the modern equivalent, to any pupil at any local school who calls another pupil 'spas' or 'retard' or any of the current jibes.

BaldEagle says...
6:06pm Fri 10 Oct 08

46 and never heard that expression! They've apologised, get over it BBC or are you going to sack two more of your best presenters? Some of us still remember the pointless culling two years ago......!

melfromhove says...
6:40pm Fri 10 Oct 08

LB wrote:
"This is poilitical correctness gone mad." 'Political correctness living with mental health issues', surely?
Or is it madness gone politically correct?

Seagull Nic says...
7:01pm Fri 10 Oct 08

One you hear some of these so called Brighton fans (always the same old whinge buckets) constantly slating the team for every bad result I want to call them a lot worse than what was said by Harty on Tuesday.
Get him back on air for Saturday or we should all boycott BBC radio

Billyboy69 says...
7:20pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Wrong thing to say in heat of debate. Apology given. End of story. Harty does tremendous work for physically and mentally sick children. NO offence was meant to be made against them, banter in anyones book. PC & professional moaning brigade back off. Keep Hawes & Harty on SCR.

Guerrero says...
7:46pm Fri 10 Oct 08

CGull1 wrote:
Oh my god no, they said what.... was anyone offended, probably not, apoligise and move on. I suppose we can't tell racist or homophobic jokes either. What is this country coming to.
You try putting a racist or homophobic joke on this forum and see how long it is before it gets censored.

bring back TVS says...
7:53pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Ian Hart is a rare thing. He is a man on UK radio with a passion (for The Albion), he is also a part time, but great broadcaster. I am sure he is sorry for his actions , he is a compasionate man (he runs a funeral business) so you need a degree of tact.

If Ian goes we will have him replaced with usual southern counties dross like Gordon Astley and Neil Pringle.

bharobin says...
7:54pm Fri 10 Oct 08

agree with majority-have never heard of this expression.Like Eastbourne Eddie 50 years in construction - must have led a sheltered life!! Some pc types must listen to everything hoping they have a chance to make a name.
Considering what Ian hart does for charity the BBC PC brigade should be ashamed.
BHAROBIN

Dirk Von Roden says...
7:54pm Fri 10 Oct 08

as a physically disabled male,with a bother who has a mind of a nine year old I do not find the comments offensive (a bit silly perhaps but not offensive )if you want offensive 3 of us went to the william the fourth by bond st bton and got told "they would not serve people like us"when asked for a reason we got told we had had one to many!! (we had not had a single drink up to that point)when we told the guy at the pub round the corner he could not believe it !!

isay says...
8:09pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Pathetic BBC SS & shame on the Albion Fan for bringing the complaint in the first place....!

bring back TVS says...
8:21pm Fri 10 Oct 08

That will be the two-faced BBC who have for years consistantly prevented the excellent blind political reported Gary O'Dongaghue from being seen on screen (he has obviously blind simply by looking at him), until he complained to his union and they threatened to sue the BBC.

Now we see him on News at ten etc with regularity when before he was restricted to radio.

Priceless BBC

toujaty says...
8:23pm Fri 10 Oct 08

The BBC should have rumbled this offensive pair years ago if only because the standard of their radio presentation is so poor. Their record of sneering and name-calling at others goes back a long way, and I’m surprised that they’re still on the airways. For instance, the insulting language that they use on public broadcasting to attack those who do not share their fervour for the stadium at Falmer has been a disgrace and surely offends the BBC’s standards of impartiality and decency. I’m afraid this latest incident is just more evidence of the amateurism and poverty in their journalism. They should never be reinstated.

dpatt says...
8:51pm Fri 10 Oct 08

What rubbish,these two guys are the best thing on southern counties radio. Give them a break you hear a more lot risque stuff from Jonathan Ross and Little Britain, will listern in on saturday,forgive and forget. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AH AND IH

Cap'n Pugwash says...
9:16pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Frank Graham wrote:
outrageous how my licence money is being used to fund such offensive insulting derogatory remarks, for 1 to say then the other to joke about it is beyond belief. These guys obviously dont care as its not the first time they have hurled insulting remarks around at others. To think they can buy their way out of this adds insult to injury. DISGUSTING!
How do you know they have 'hurled insulting remarks around about others'? Can you prove any of your allegations? I hope you can because if not you are being libelous and I for one hope that either Ian Hart or Andrew Hawes sues your miserable **** for the remarks you are hurling around.

Dannyhoops says...
9:24pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Sometimes Ian Hart gets carried away with his own opinion. He is not the only one who is passionate about the Albion. This does not give him the right to slate people who do not agree with him.

This is not the first time he has offended someone on the air. Last time he made sexiest remarks about women supporters and their knitting. That blunder cost him an on air apology and a donation to his chariety.

Once a mistake twice is what? If they do reinstate them both they certainly need to learn that just because they hold one opinion it does not necessarily make it one that everyone has to share or run the gauntlet of being ridiculed.

There is a saying put the brain in to gear before the mouth goes into action.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - if some think Dick Knight has made a mistake to appoint Mickey Adams they are entitled to have that opinion.

If they think Dick Knight treated Dean Wilkins badly and made a mistake sacking him then they are just as entitled to have that opinion.

We live in a country that is supposed to have free speech and respect anothers opinion without making comments that are offensive.

It is very easy to say sorry but much harder to prove you mean it.

Everest says...
9:39pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Has anyone stopped to think WHAT Harty said?
Mr Hart told a fan to “go and lick a window”

Telling someone to "go and lick a window" is completely different from calling someone a "w-l".

BBC having double standards again. What about all the crap that Little Britain has aired by the Big Buffoon Club, that's a **** site worse.
If it was Mohamed Hart that said that, would he be in trouble? I guess not as they'd be up on a charge of racism.

The Phantom says...
10:00pm Fri 10 Oct 08

1. I have never heard of this remark before and I like to think I know most words / phrases in the English language.

2. The over-reaction of certain people has been far more offensive than what was at worst a silly comment.

3. BBC SCR has little going for it as a radio station. Almost everything else I hear from the station is almost unlistenably (did not use to be the case). Hawes is a good commentator and Harty although not a particularly good broadcaster at least talks with a passion (unlike most of his colleagues). If we sack Hawes, will John Lees be making a comeback - sure the worst football broadcaster ever.

4. I remember many years ago an announcer at The Goldstone referring to the Brighton players "going to give some Easter Eggs to the Spastics". No-one batted an eyelid then and the announcer continues to have a long and successful career. No harm or malice wsa meant by the comment as is indeed the case with Hawes and Hart's comments.

Good luck guys and hope to hear you back on the airwaves soon.

masque says...
10:31pm Fri 10 Oct 08

Windowlicker is the current version of spaz, joey, retard, whatever. it is offensive they should be sacked, they would be if they'd asked for spastics, joey's etc. to call.

gdf666 says...
11:41pm Fri 10 Oct 08

A good 50% of the utter purile television on BBC3 is ten times more offensive than this but these programmes get awards?????

The BBC really needs to get a grip of itsself before it disappears up so far up its own backside it can see its own tonsils from behind.

Reinstate them NOW as a licence payer this is not a request!!

Joools says...
12:34am Sat 11 Oct 08

The Argus headline screams 'Outrage at Albion pundits' disabled jibe' but it is very clear from the comments so far that the overwhelming majority of people are not at all outraged by the comment and their only outrage is at the treatment handed out to these two well-liked presenters.

I was listening to the commentary on Tuesday night, the whole thing has been taken out of context and blown up totally out of proportion by the PC brigade.

Both presenters should be reinstated immediately.

chiba seagull says...
4:25am Sat 11 Oct 08

Giving these guys the sack is simply an outrage and just goes to show what a bunch of cretins the BBC are. REINSTATE HARTY AND HAWESY NOW!

Giles says...
7:47am Sat 11 Oct 08

An indication of how the media works.
Front page negative headline on Friday, positive followed up story on Saturday buried on page 13.......

Dicky71 says...
8:54am Sat 11 Oct 08

Ian and Andrew are first rate broadcasters, if you don't like what they say, TURN THE RADIO OFF.

They are both very funny, quick witted guys and i love them both.

The BBC should have a sense of humour in this and reinstate them straight away.

How about extending their phone in show and cutting back Dave Cash til 7pm???

John Brighton says...
9:03am Sat 11 Oct 08

Well Done the BBC Harty should have been taken off a long time ago. All his phone in show is somewhere he and all his mate can put over their own opinion. Every week the same people are on and when someone comes on who does not share his opinion they run out of time how convieniant. Even his co-presenter someone who knows and has played a little bit of football wasn't able to get a word in after the last game So go on BBC do the right thing and get him off the air and lets have someone who will give others their say and not just preach their own opinion

Guerrero says...
2:07pm Sat 11 Oct 08

Little Britain last night had simulated anal sex between two men.Many might find that a lot more offensive.

bha1901 says...
8:58pm Sun 12 Oct 08

What an awful show on SCR without those two.
Rugby at 5.45pm !!! I want to hear opinions about the Albion and other local football teams. The rugby wait, no disrespect but Worthing RFC do not generate the same interest as the Albion, Crawley, Lewes and Eastbourne Football Clubs.
Any more of this nonsense and I'll be back listening to Southern FM on Saturdays.
They have apologised for their mistake if it happens again then sack them.


vikram patel says...
10:03am Wed 15 Oct 08

i like to express much support for the brighton window lickers. we must get them freed from the bay of guantanemo


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