Gulf war veteran sleeps rough on the streets of Lewes (From The Argus)

We help those sponges from abroad and forgot our heroes

This is a disgrace, I'm ashamed of the way our country treats our armed forces.

disgrace this country has gone to the wall. anyone see the programme last night how brave them soldiers were bet brown and his clan havent got any bottle like they have courage was a under statement .rehome this former soldier NOW !!!!!!! lewes council you bunch of moronic idiots.,

To hell with this country im sick of all its tyrannical crap, Britain has taken a turn these past 10 years, this direction disgusts me, just look at the way they treat our soldiers, I am not in any regards proud to be British, in its current state I'm ashamed.

Someone should tell him to phone Emmaus, the homeless charity centre in Drove Road, Portslade. Here many men and women who were homeless live and work together in a former convent. There is shop where furniture, bric a brac etc is sold. And there is an excellent cafe for breakfasts and lunches. Tel 01273 426470 They may have a vacancy or be able to give him some better advice than Lewes Council.

Firstly I fully sopport all our troops abroad and believe we should do as much for them as possible when they returned, particularly when they are suffering.

However, in this case the parents and council have tried to help him as much as they can and sometimes it comes to the point where he needs to help himself. The council has a process (which i'm not saying is the best) which if they just decided to give up for this guy what do they do for all the others? if he fills in the forms and follows the process he may get homed. It even says the GP hasn't sent anything as proof.

I love it how everyone jumps on the bandwagon of how badly our troops are treated the minute a story like this come up........when in this case he could probably get himself helped and homed quite easily.

From reading the article Lewes Council have tried to help him. Not sure where all the people complaining about how he is being treated are getting their arguments from. (And no, I don't work for the council.)

Totally agree BHA fan. People on this forum are generally reluctant to think for themselves when they have the facts, and choose a reactionary response instead, totally missing the point.

Unfortunately that is the kind of reaction that's got Britain into the state it is in now...which ironically they are complaining about without realising they contribute to it more than most.

I am disgusted with the way the authorities are treating this young man. How has he made himself homeless if his parents have told him to leave? If he had come over in the back of a lorry through Newhaven, the council would fall over backwards to give assistance but this young man has been fighting in this countrys' army, doing his bit for the country and the authorities just turn and S**T on him. Shame on those concerned!

Having read more of the comments I am wondering if bha and pancake have experienced what this young man has, and do they know what mental illness involves? It is very easy to say he should help himself but if you do have a mental breakdown, I know from experience, that as much as you want to help yourself, you can't and you need all the help you can get, not criticism.

pancaker wrote:
From reading the article Lewes Council have tried to help him. Not sure where all the people complaining about how he is being treated are getting their arguments from. (And no, I don't work for the council.)

so i suppose youve never had a breakdown, seen bodies lying about rotting and stinking, living in a trench months on end being away from your family not knowing if youre gonna be killed or maimed i think you and all of us need to get a reality check and be grateful that we dont experiance things like that. selfish is what we all are living in comfort zones and f--k everyone else is why this country is gone to the wall

This story is just plain disgusting! Completely agree with all the comments about how dreadfully this man has been treated. Hope someone helps him to find somewhere safe to live, and a way to begin to get over what he's been through. Maybe he would be best off putting on a Middle Eastern accent, and getting into the back of a lorry at Dover, then he might get assistance?!
I hope that Lewes council are proud of themselves!!!!!

Nice parents...

Gulf war veteran sleeps rough on the streets of Lewes
11:01am Thursday 24th September 2009
Comments (14) Have your say »


"This is the Gulf war veteran who put his life on the line for his country but is now reduced to sleeping on the streets of Lewes."

Certainly tells me something about those who take the trouble to write to the 'Argus'!

So we participate in the invasion of a foreign country offering no threat to this country, on the basis of a series of blatant lies, kill an estimated million of their subjects (according to the British Medical Journal calculations) --- and yes, the dead bodies do smell and look and smell rather horribly a few days later -- endanger our own country and citizens as a consequence, whilst we remove Saddam (who, whatever his many faults may have been, was a bitter enemy of Osama bin Ladin) ... and all this is summarized by the 'Argus' press reporter as putting "his life on the line for his country".

Fourteen of you contribute comments -- all writing the same bilge!

Anubis,

While I appreciate your comments, none of that is the fault of the chap who's living on the streets. It's not a debate about the rights or wrongs of war, it is about how we treat the soldiers who do the bidding of the government. We may well disagree with what that bidding is, but is it the footsoldiers place to decide policy? Like it or not, an army has to follow instructions if it is to function.

Yes the way the Argus put it will be a bone of contention, but to describe people rightly pointing out that he has; done his job, suffered from it and is now on the streets as a result, and that being unjust as bilge misses the point of the article.

gory333, I think you've missed the point, and should read again. No-one is belittling what he's been through, all I have done is point out that those who say the council have done nothing or should do more are wilfully ignoring the facts.

Wilfully ignoring the facts is what made the Government invade Iraq in the first place, and is what keeps society in the state it is in.

How have I offended you by pointing that out? The Council have done all they can. Would you be happier if the council could take power of attorney over whoever they wanted and dictate what needs to be done for them? I'm guessing not. Would you also be happy if anyone could go to the council and say "I'm homeless, give me a house"? Again, I'm guessing not.

At some point someone else (another agency, himself, his family) need to step in and help by filling in the forms and referring him as appropriate. It's not the council because they don't have the legal powers to do so. Yet people bash the council. They are a bit silly to do so and they seem to get themselves all worked up and angry about the wrong things.

I'm not sure how me pointing that out made you take a quite impressive leap of logic and think I was cussing soldiers, but I'm sorry that it did. Disrespecting them is the last thing I would do.

It'd also be interesting to get the stories of others involved in this. We have here someone we're all agreed is in need of significant help and who admits he gets confused yet we are relying totally on his version of events. This is dangerous and people on this forum are condemning his parents when we don't have their side of the story. Is that fair on them? Did they really kick him out? And what of the GP? What's their take?

But then people on this forum don't tend to like facts, and prefer a knee-jerk reaction attacking everything and everyone they can while ignoring the facts, even when the newspaper spells them out in a story.

Poor bloke he's doing it all wrong too, lose your passport say your 15 they'll be throwing everything at you. Do some thing for your country and pay taxes all your life, zilch !! As an ex serviceman my self watching all the military hospitals close over the years, poor equipment. I'm afraid this country is lost, unless you've paid nothing into our country and done nothing for our country you'll soon get housed, health and benefits. There's something badly wrong and I think beyond repair.

Come on Norman, who usually have plenty to say about everything else. Is it because Lewes District Council is run by the Lib Dems?

shall we have some straight facts. Councils operate something called a local connection policy. You will only access help with emergency accommodation when homeless if you can prove you have a local connection and can prove you are vulnerable. This was introduced as there is a severe shortage of council run and owned accommodation and they couldn't possibly help everyone that comes through the door.
1.5 % of social housing has been allocated to people who have lived in this country for less than five years.
There is no enforced enlistment in this country.
Help is available but workers are not psychic. They need evidence of homelessness and vulnerability or anyone could claim to be homeless .
Having made the choice to join the army does not entitle you to a council house.
Perhaps those who feel so strongly could offer a home to this man?
I hope this man has been in contact with British Legion who have support for homeless ex forces.

it was a freind of mine nigel sands that a good number of years ago took LDC to court and forced them to adopt a policy of local connection this chap should be aware that as a single male unless he has a lot of medical back up would not be deemed a priority or needy case.
Let nobody missunderstand the debt of honour we as a country owe our armed forces, as civillians it is without question that we give respect to those who have worn the colours. The debt however does not negate the requirement of those exmilitary to do there bit to help them selves and some times this can be difficult
I hope he passes through this phase quickly as public support is often fickle, especially when they see a fit healthy looking guy sleeping rough.
my thoughts are with you ricky take each day at a time mate.

pancaker wrote:
gory333, I think you've missed the point, and should read again. No-one is belittling what he's been through, all I have done is point out that those who say the council have done nothing or should do more are wilfully ignoring the facts.

Wilfully ignoring the facts is what made the Government invade Iraq in the first place, and is what keeps society in the state it is in.

How have I offended you by pointing that out? The Council have done all they can. Would you be happier if the council could take power of attorney over whoever they wanted and dictate what needs to be done for them? I'm guessing not. Would you also be happy if anyone could go to the council and say "I'm homeless, give me a house"? Again, I'm guessing not.

At some point someone else (another agency, himself, his family) need to step in and help by filling in the forms and referring him as appropriate. It's not the council because they don't have the legal powers to do so. Yet people bash the council. They are a bit silly to do so and they seem to get themselves all worked up and angry about the wrong things.

I'm not sure how me pointing that out made you take a quite impressive leap of logic and think I was cussing soldiers, but I'm sorry that it did. Disrespecting them is the last thing I would do.

It'd also be interesting to get the stories of others involved in this. We have here someone we're all agreed is in need of significant help and who admits he gets confused yet we are relying totally on his version of events. This is dangerous and people on this forum are condemning his parents when we don't have their side of the story. Is that fair on them? Did they really kick him out? And what of the GP? What's their take?

But then people on this forum don't tend to like facts, and prefer a knee-jerk reaction attacking everything and everyone they can while ignoring the facts, even when the newspaper spells them out in a story.

Couldn't have put it better really. And there are some facts from Indiebrighton. I feel sorry for him and no one is belittling his problem. I would never suggest I knew how he feels, but it does seem like everyone gets worked up, gets tunnel vision and wants to take a shot at the council as they've decided to ignore the facts and think about it. (and I don't work for the council either).

This is dreadful. We send our boys out to fight, without the right equipment or support and when they need help we cannot provide it. When people come from abroad they are give everything, free housing, benefits, health care and education. The sooner we get rid of this weak government and look after our own the better. I hope Rickey gets professional help soon.

I don't think you can decide to support or not support our armed forces depending on the rights and wrongs of the conflict they find themselves in. It wouldn't be much of an army if half of them turned on their heels and said: "Sorry, we're not sure we agree with the reasonings for war in this instance. See you later." If you're in the army, you're in the army. Period.

If we can all agree on that, then surely we can all agree that anyone who serves our country in armed conflict should be given absolute priority in terms of housing and support on their return to this country. If that means someone going through homelessness application forms step by step with them, then so be it. For LDC to bleat on about form-filling when an ex-serviceman is on the brink of nervous collapse - thus rendering homeless - is, which ever way you look at it, a national disgrace.

Assuming the basic facts of the story are correct, I sincerely hope this poor chap gets the support he so richly deserves.

Please can the Argus confirm whether this ex-serviceman has been in put in contact with SSAFA or British Legion. There are a lot of charities for ex-serviceman who would be able offer help.

nice parents.... think we are all jumping to conclsions here without hearing all the facts from all the parties involved... like his parents!!

Firstly we do not even know their side of the story and not everything is all black and white like people are making out, and are they even aware of what is being said?

There are people out there out there who abuse the system, and the press shoulde be more responsible before publishing delicate artilces like this one before getting all the information from all the parties involved.

And secondly if he was homeless like he is making out how come he is wearing what is obviously
brand named clothing and sitting with a smirk on his face!!

firstly im sitting here absolutly outraged at the comments that are being said about the parents! how dare you judge them. no one knows the parents ! and no-one knows the FULL story !!!! so before you comment the story is not about them its about the bloke ok!

Excuse my userid, but this is an issue close to my heart:

pancaker, Lewes says...
"But then people on this forum don't tend to like facts, and prefer a knee-jerk reaction attacking everything and everyone they can while ignoring the facts, even when the newspaper spells them out in a story."

Frankly I have yet to see a single FACT presented by yourself, it feel it would be better to stop trying to divert attention.

indiebright, brighton says
"They need evidence of homelessness and vulnerability or anyone could claim to be homeless"

Have you ever seen how these faceless beaurocrats, who have no idea of what these people are suffering from, dream up these pieces of evidence based on the need to fit thier systems, NOT those in need.

John Steed, worthing says...
"The debt however does not negate the requirement of those exmilitary to do there (sic) bit to help them selves"

This case has, along with many others, been extensively documented as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. They cannot help themselves, they are MENTALLY disabled and can no more help them selves as a physically disabled one legged person can be asked to dance a jig.

jamusIII, hove says...
"If that means someone going through homelessness application forms step by step with them, then so be it"

At last a REALLY HELPFUL THOUGHT even at the most basic level, ordinary people can help these neglected victims get the help they need. Help them seek charities who are trying to do the governments job for them.

On the subject of our governments disgraceful treatment of the injured military. May I add, I worked for several years, in the American Veterans Administration. They do the best they can, with tremendous support both publicly and politically, and constantly strive to do better. By comparison, it seems to me, we seek to cut off the 'diseased' arm of our society, bury them quietly, and strive to do less.

It's always difficult to get the real truth in a few paragraphs in a local paper.
However, if we stopped giving social housing to teenage mums who have contributed nothing to society by the time they start reproducing with any old toe rag who is usually unemployed and half witted - also scum families, benefit cheats and unemployed people who keep their hard-working neighbours up with music all night or rutting goat sex sessions, there would be homes available for people who really need help and would actually respect their homes and neighbours.
It's about time we valued our social housing stock and gave it to people who can behave and respect its worth instead of handing it out to utter scum who appear so often in The Argus wreaking havoc with decent people.
Then none of us would be making a judgement ,based on a few lines in a paper, on whether this man is mentally suffering enough to receive help.

Anglosaxy wrote:
Excuse my userid, but this is an issue close to my heart: pancaker, Lewes says... "But then people on this forum don't tend to like facts, and prefer a knee-jerk reaction attacking everything and everyone they can while ignoring the facts, even when the newspaper spells them out in a story." Frankly I have yet to see a single FACT presented by yourself, it feel it would be better to stop trying to divert attention. indiebright, brighton says "They need evidence of homelessness and vulnerability or anyone could claim to be homeless" Have you ever seen how these faceless beaurocrats, who have no idea of what these people are suffering from, dream up these pieces of evidence based on the need to fit thier systems, NOT those in need. John Steed, worthing says... "The debt however does not negate the requirement of those exmilitary to do there (sic) bit to help them selves" This case has, along with many others, been extensively documented as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. They cannot help themselves, they are MENTALLY disabled and can no more help them selves as a physically disabled one legged person can be asked to dance a jig. jamusIII, hove says... "If that means someone going through homelessness application forms step by step with them, then so be it" At last a REALLY HELPFUL THOUGHT even at the most basic level, ordinary people can help these neglected victims get the help they need. Help them seek charities who are trying to do the governments job for them. On the subject of our governments disgraceful treatment of the injured military. May I add, I worked for several years, in the American Veterans Administration. They do the best they can, with tremendous support both publicly and politically, and constantly strive to do better. By comparison, it seems to me, we seek to cut off the 'diseased' arm of our society, bury them quietly, and strive to do less.

I'm afraid this story demonstrates yet again that this country does everything, including looking after our army veterans, 'on the cheap'.
But if you are an unmarried mother or 'on the sick' - then you can have what you like.

The ghost of Osama bin there wrote:

Anglosaxy wrote: Excuse my userid, but this is an issue close to my heart: pancaker, Lewes says... "But then people on this forum don't tend to like facts, and prefer a knee-jerk reaction attacking everything and everyone they can while ignoring the facts, even when the newspaper spells them out in a story." Frankly I have yet to see a single FACT presented by yourself, it feel it would be better to stop trying to divert attention. indiebright, brighton says "They need evidence of homelessness and vulnerability or anyone could claim to be homeless" Have you ever seen how these faceless beaurocrats, who have no idea of what these people are suffering from, dream up these pieces of evidence based on the need to fit thier systems, NOT those in need. John Steed, worthing says... "The debt however does not negate the requirement of those exmilitary to do there (sic) bit to help them selves" This case has, along with many others, been extensively documented as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. They cannot help themselves, they are MENTALLY disabled and can no more help them selves as a physically disabled one legged person can be asked to dance a jig. jamusIII, hove says... "If that means someone going through homelessness application forms step by step with them, then so be it" At last a REALLY HELPFUL THOUGHT even at the most basic level, ordinary people can help these neglected victims get the help they need. Help them seek charities who are trying to do the governments job for them. On the subject of our governments disgraceful treatment of the injured military. May I add, I worked for several years, in the American Veterans Administration. They do the best they can, with tremendous support both publicly and politically, and constantly strive to do better. By comparison, it seems to me, we seek to cut off the 'diseased' arm of our society, bury them quietly, and strive to do less.

I'm afraid this story demonstrates yet again that this country does everything, including looking after our army veterans, 'on the cheap'. But if you are an unmarried mother or 'on the sick' - then you can have what you like.

Spot on I'm afraid. and for older readers post traumatic stress syndrome has been refered to as battle fatugue or as its more widely known shell-shock. This young man needs help to get back on his feet as he can't do it by himself. This is where Brown and the rats of lie-bour have broken the military covenant and abandon those we should honor most.

I still can't believe people are blaming the Government and the Council. I find it scary people who think it is their fault despite the facts are given responsibility to vote.

there is a confounding of issues under discussion here. Where there are individuals in need of proper care and attention and they are being let down 'by society', then it is appropriate to identify the failings, whether they be in the local Council or the wider caring environment. The degree to which the 'origin' of this particular individual's difficulties lies from his earlier life, his family life, his war experiences, is a question that cannot have specific and concrete answers ...

However, these matters cannot be meaningfully separated from the war (and the war economy) behind all this (we currently spend about £4 billion pounds every minute on war and war preparations -- imagine the funds that could be readily available for social care, doctors and hospitals etc. if we didn't squander our wealth in this way).

Acheron complains I was 'missing the point' ... but I wasn't; I was addressing the 'Argus' article, NOT what other correspondents chose, themselves, to interpret as the 'real issue' .... and now:

"jamusIII, hove says...
8:02pm Thu 24 Sep 09

I don't think you can decide to support or not support our armed forces depending on the rights and wrongs of the conflict they find themselves in. It wouldn't be much of an army if half of them turned on their heels and said: "Sorry, we're not sure we agree with the reasonings for war in this instance. See you later." If you're in the army, you're in the army. Period.

If we can all agree on that ... "

That great numbers of people DO agree with that, Jamus Iii is apparent from the correspondence on this post ... but that was NOT the view reached, quite bluntly, by the Nuremburg Tribunals following the Second World War. Criminal warfare and the millions of innocent deaths arising therefrom are NOT excusable on the grounds that the perpetrators are "only obeying orders". That you and so many of your fellow correspondents support the same arguments of the Nuremburg defendants bodes ill for those who continue to battle for a more just and civilized society in the future.

anubis wrote:
there is a confounding of issues under discussion here. Where there are individuals in need of proper care and attention and they are being let down 'by society', then it is appropriate to identify the failings, whether they be in the local Council or the wider caring environment. The degree to which the 'origin' of this particular individual's difficulties lies from his earlier life, his family life, his war experiences, is a question that cannot have specific and concrete answers ... However, these matters cannot be meaningfully separated from the war (and the war economy) behind all this (we currently spend about £4 billion pounds every minute on war and war preparations -- imagine the funds that could be readily available for social care, doctors and hospitals etc. if we didn't squander our wealth in this way). Acheron complains I was 'missing the point' ... but I wasn't; I was addressing the 'Argus' article, NOT what other correspondents chose, themselves, to interpret as the 'real issue' .... and now: "jamusIII, hove says... 8:02pm Thu 24 Sep 09 I don't think you can decide to support or not support our armed forces depending on the rights and wrongs of the conflict they find themselves in. It wouldn't be much of an army if half of them turned on their heels and said: "Sorry, we're not sure we agree with the reasonings for war in this instance. See you later." If you're in the army, you're in the army. Period. If we can all agree on that ... " That great numbers of people DO agree with that, Jamus Iii is apparent from the correspondence on this post ... but that was NOT the view reached, quite bluntly, by the Nuremburg Tribunals following the Second World War. Criminal warfare and the millions of innocent deaths arising therefrom are NOT excusable on the grounds that the perpetrators are "only obeying orders". That you and so many of your fellow correspondents support the same arguments of the Nuremburg defendants bodes ill for those who continue to battle for a more just and civilized society in the future.

So, to paraphrase what you are saying:
"If you don't agree with the government's military policy, you shouldn't join the armed forces, or support those who have to do the government's bidding on the frontline".
Is that your point, because I can't say I agree.
What I will say though is, that every military conflict that I can think of over the last 30 years that the UK have been involved in has been a waste of lives, as very little or nothing was achieved by it.
1. Falklands War. How can islands just off the Argentinian coast and thousands of miles from the UK justifiably belong to us?
2. N Ireland conflict. Was not solved by troops, but by getting around the table and talking. Some would say it will never be solved.
3. 1st Iraq war. Saddam driven back into Iraq from Kuwait. Big deal.
4. 2nd Iraq war. When the troops finally pull out, give it 5 years, and they will be back to tribalism and more ethnic conflict. The imposition of democracy on a country that doesn't want it is ludicrous. We had no right to invade anyway.
5. Afghanistan. No lessons learnt from the Russian experience there. Will eventually result in our troops leaving, because it's an unwinnable war.
So maybe the REAL lesson to be learnt is that we shouldn't have any armed forces, and we would all be a lot better off.

Hmm, I think the whole point has been sadly missed. This is not about agreeing or disagreeing with war etc... To joing the army or any armed forces is a brave move. You do your country's bidding on the front line. Many of us will never know or understand the harsh reality of war like the soldiers do.

To me personally, this is a another sad case that no help is given where needed yet we contiunue to help those who are perfeclt capable of helping themselves (you know who I mean!). I hope the young man gets the support that he needs and finds a better life.

Dear Sussex as a near relative to this young man I believe its time for the truth to be told.
He has hood winked you all, he has never lived on the streets in his life, and was staying with friends and family and his wife until the day of this article.
He may have some issues from his Army service and his Gulf war service but as he told all his family, all of it was spent driving a truck.
Whatever reasons he has for acting in this manor need to be sorted with medical help.
Never judge a book by its cover, as all of family were totally unaware of this article and feel deep shame for his actions

Oh dear - does that mean the Argus has been duped into writing a load of bollards, what a total waste of time.

To the 'Ghost of Osama', who asked:

" ... to paraphrase what you are saying: "If you don't agree with the government's military policy, you shouldn't join the armed forces, or support those who have to do the government's bidding on the frontline". Is that your point, because I can't say I agree."

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. The future society (which, I hope, future humanity will aspire to achieve) will be one where every individual will be enabled to take control of his/her own life, make their own decisions and to be accountable for all his decisions and actions; NOT to 'pass the buck'. That's EXACTLY what a proper democracy will be about.

On the specific case this post is about, thanks are due to 'Truth from Henfield'; that the press story is largely a myth does NOT make the many comments from almost all posters about 'social responsibility' irrelevant. Perhaps the only 'error' is the common belief that the 'responsibility' rests elsewhere -- never with US, as individuals, living within a flawed social system.