Lights on bikes make us have fits, say Brighton and Hove epileptics (From The Argus)

Photosensitive epilepsy

Thanks to Professor G F A Harding, formerly of Aston University, England and Professor Stefano Seri, of Aston University and the Birmingham Children’s Hospital NHS Foundation for their help and support in producing this information.

Photosensitive epilepsy is the name given to epilepsy in which all, or almost all, seizures are provoked by flashing or flickering light, or some shapes or patterns. Both natural and artificial light may trigger seizures. Various types of seizure may be triggered by flickering light.

Many people think that everybody with epilepsy is photosensitive, but in fact only five in every hundred people with epilepsy are. Photosensitive epilepsy usually begins before the age of 20 years, although it is most common between the ages of seven and 19. Photosensitivity tends to affect girls more than boys. There is also evidence that photosensitive epilepsy can be passed on through the genes.


Diagnosing photosensitive epilepsy

One investigation that is carried out to diagnose epilepsy is an , or EEG. The EEG records brainwave patterns from the continuous tiny electrical signals coming from the brain. During one part of the EEG, you are asked to look at flashing lights, to see if this triggers epileptic activity in the brain. If it does, then this may indicate that you have photosensitive epilepsy.


Hertz

The word hertz (Hz) refers to how often something happens in a given time. In photosensitive epilepsy, hertz (Hz) refers to the number of flashes or flickers a second. When talking about televisions or computer screens, hertz refers to the rate the scanning lines ‘refresh’ themselves.

Most people with photosensitive epilepsy are sensitive to 16-25 Hz, although some people may be sensitive to rates as low as 3 Hz and as high as 60 Hz.

**********

Comments from a mother >>

My son suffers from marked photosensitivity and has to be constantly aware of his surroundings. Last year an incident happened which we hadn't thought of even after 5 years. Our bathroom window faces our road and has a frosted pane of glass with leaf patterns on it. A lorry with yellow flashing lights pulled into our road and was stationary outside our house. The flashing lights magnified in each of the leaf patterns making it look like a mass of flashing images. Unfortunately, my son was in the bath at the time and ended up having a seizure. We now pull down the blind each time just in case this happens again.

I nearly have a fit everytime I see cyclists riding in the dark without lights on.....

The highway code states:
60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

How many cyclists just have the flashing lights at the front and back now. Surely bike shops/police and cycling organisations should be giving out the correct message.

I wonder if there is any evidence to support flashing lights ? I cycle with a flashing front beam at night as I feel I'm more easily spotted by drivers.

If there is any evidence that flashing lights saves lives then that number must be balanced against the percenatge of epilepsy suffers that are affected. If only 5% have photo sensitivity and most of those are sensitive from 16 to 15 Hertz then it is likey to be a very small fraction that suffer at 1 to 4 hertz.

Not that I want that small percent to suffer.....but if you could prove that 10 people have fits for every 1000 lives saved......then you cant condemn the 1000 for the sake of the 100.

Rita Snatch wrote:
Photosensitive epilepsy Thanks to Professor G F A Harding, formerly of Aston University, England and Professor Stefano Seri, of Aston University and the Birmingham Children’s Hospital NHS Foundation for their help and support in producing this information. Photosensitive epilepsy is the name given to epilepsy in which all, or almost all, seizures are provoked by flashing or flickering light, or some shapes or patterns. Both natural and artificial light may trigger seizures. Various types of seizure may be triggered by flickering light. Many people think that everybody with epilepsy is photosensitive, but in fact only five in every hundred people with epilepsy are. Photosensitive epilepsy usually begins before the age of 20 years, although it is most common between the ages of seven and 19. Photosensitivity tends to affect girls more than boys. There is also evidence that photosensitive epilepsy can be passed on through the genes. Diagnosing photosensitive epilepsy One investigation that is carried out to diagnose epilepsy is an , or EEG. The EEG records brainwave patterns from the continuous tiny electrical signals coming from the brain. During one part of the EEG, you are asked to look at flashing lights, to see if this triggers epileptic activity in the brain. If it does, then this may indicate that you have photosensitive epilepsy. Hertz The word hertz (Hz) refers to how often something happens in a given time. In photosensitive epilepsy, hertz (Hz) refers to the number of flashes or flickers a second. When talking about televisions or computer screens, hertz refers to the rate the scanning lines ‘refresh’ themselves. Most people with photosensitive epilepsy are sensitive to 16-25 Hz, although some people may be sensitive to rates as low as 3 Hz and as high as 60 Hz. ********** Comments from a mother >> My son suffers from marked photosensitivity and has to be constantly aware of his surroundings. Last year an incident happened which we hadn't thought of even after 5 years. Our bathroom window faces our road and has a frosted pane of glass with leaf patterns on it. A lorry with yellow flashing lights pulled into our road and was stationary outside our house. The flashing lights magnified in each of the leaf patterns making it look like a mass of flashing images. Unfortunately, my son was in the bath at the time and ended up having a seizure. We now pull down the blind each time just in case this happens again.

WAY WAY WAY too long. Keep it brief, keep it chirpy. Its called dark and light. people with scroll on after 6 lines.

pc mcgary no 452, got to line two before dying of boredom!

Whilst I am not an epilepsy sufferer, I do find that the bright flashing white lights on bikes, and also the really bright headlights on cars can cause me to suffer from temporary vision loss, followed by a migraine. The same happens with camera flashes too.

I use a fixed and a flashing light. I switch the flashing light on in heavy, slow moving traffic where I am travelling along the inside lane, perhaps on the cycle lane. The reason I do this is that motorists rarely seem to use their nearside wing mirror and often make left turns without looking in this mirror before doing so, clipping cyclists off as they make the turn.
A flashing lights seems more affective at catching their attention.

TheInsider wrote:
I use a fixed and a flashing light. I switch the flashing light on in heavy, slow moving traffic where I am travelling along the inside lane, perhaps on the cycle lane. The reason I do this is that motorists rarely seem to use their nearside wing mirror and often make left turns without looking in this mirror before doing so, clipping cyclists off as they make the turn.
A flashing lights seems more affective at catching their attention.

Well for the front I use a 15 watt halogen with a 35 watt halogen light which I can switch on when required and a 3 watt flashing light, and for the rear I use a red flashing light on my cycle helmet, a steady red one on the bike is self + another flashing one on the bike, and some motorists are so busy yapping on mobile phones, playing with the stereo etc they still don't see me, I have the last laugh though as if they looked close enough they would see my cycle helmet mounted CCTV camera which is more than capable of recording number plates of moronic drivers.

Looks like the PC brigade are out again, so will we be trying to ban the red, white and blue flashing lights on the emergency vehicles as well?

Surely if people know they "fit" they should try and avoid looking at these flashing lights, it's not as if we stare at the sun when it comes out because we know it will cause blindness.

Big Nasty wrote:

TheInsider wrote: I use a fixed and a flashing light. I switch the flashing light on in heavy, slow moving traffic where I am travelling along the inside lane, perhaps on the cycle lane. The reason I do this is that motorists rarely seem to use their nearside wing mirror and often make left turns without looking in this mirror before doing so, clipping cyclists off as they make the turn. A flashing lights seems more affective at catching their attention.

Well for the front I use a 15 watt halogen with a 35 watt halogen light which I can switch on when required and a 3 watt flashing light, and for the rear I use a red flashing light on my cycle helmet, a steady red one on the bike is self + another flashing one on the bike, and some motorists are so busy yapping on mobile phones, playing with the stereo etc they still don't see me, I have the last laugh though as if they looked close enough they would see my cycle helmet mounted CCTV camera which is more than capable of recording number plates of moronic drivers.

"cycle helmet mounted CCTV camera ",what's the make and model?iooot

Dave At Home, Brighton says...
8:27pm Thu 28 Jan 10

Looks like the PC brigade are out again, so will we be trying to ban the red, white and blue flashing lights on the emergency vehicles as well?

Surely if people know they "fit" they should try and avoid looking at these flashing lights, it's not as if we stare at the sun when it comes out because we know it will cause blindness

Actually its called a 'seizure', and epileptics do not look at these lights on purpose but cannot avoid it whilst walking in the dark. You will be telling epileptics not to go out after dark next!

It's an interesting discussion - but no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious - most cyclists I see out after dark don't trouble themselves with any sort of illumination - in fact they also think that wearing dark clothing also aids their visibility. And if they happen to be riding the wrong way down a one way street ( as they often do) they think that other motorists are gifted with automatic night vision.

Nyberg wrote:
It's an interesting discussion - but no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious - most cyclists I see out after dark don't trouble themselves with any sort of illumination - in fact they also think that wearing dark clothing also aids their visibility. And if they happen to be riding the wrong way down a one way street ( as they often do) they think that other motorists are gifted with automatic night vision.

You say that "no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious"; well that's because
1. It's totally 100% irrelevant
2. It's drivel
3. We were all too busy waiting for some fool to start spouting the usual anti-cyclist rubbish as soon as the word cyclist is published... and look who came along?

Nyberg wrote:
It's an interesting discussion - but no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious - most cyclists I see out after dark don't trouble themselves with any sort of illumination - in fact they also think that wearing dark clothing also aids their visibility. And if they happen to be riding the wrong way down a one way street ( as they often do) they think that other motorists are gifted with automatic night vision.

probably the best and most accurate post of the lot, although most are pretty good. i was under the impression that a FIXED, not flashing, light should be affixed front and rear, and that any flashing light was an extra light to aid visibility. we are smitten with exactly the same problems here in oxford, and the local constabulary often have a crackdown, issuing penalty tickets to offenders. these tickets are then cancelled when the offender produces a set of lights at the police station.

I'm curious as to why this request has been made now. The flashing cycle lights have been around for years. Has the research taken that long, or is it a case of 'next on the list of issues'.

Flashing lights do get you noticed more, as a driver and a cyclist I'd prefer both.

What is really needed is someone to think of an alternative (if it is the big issue it's being claimed to be) so that neither group suffers. To just insist that people stop using them and put themselves at risk isn't going to be productive and likely to get peoples back up.

jon s wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

TheInsider wrote: I use a fixed and a flashing light. I switch the flashing light on in heavy, slow moving traffic where I am travelling along the inside lane, perhaps on the cycle lane. The reason I do this is that motorists rarely seem to use their nearside wing mirror and often make left turns without looking in this mirror before doing so, clipping cyclists off as they make the turn. A flashing lights seems more affective at catching their attention.

Well for the front I use a 15 watt halogen with a 35 watt halogen light which I can switch on when required and a 3 watt flashing light, and for the rear I use a red flashing light on my cycle helmet, a steady red one on the bike is self + another flashing one on the bike, and some motorists are so busy yapping on mobile phones, playing with the stereo etc they still don't see me, I have the last laugh though as if they looked close enough they would see my cycle helmet mounted CCTV camera which is more than capable of recording number plates of moronic drivers.

"cycle helmet mounted CCTV camera ",what's the make and model?iooot

Goto ' www.dogcamsport.co.u
k ' and you will see the type of thing I use!.

davyboy wrote:

Nyberg wrote:
It's an interesting discussion - but no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious - most cyclists I see out after dark don't trouble themselves with any sort of illumination - in fact they also think that wearing dark clothing also aids their visibility. And if they happen to be riding the wrong way down a one way street ( as they often do) they think that other motorists are gifted with automatic night vision.

probably the best and most accurate post of the lot, although most are pretty good. i was under the impression that a FIXED, not flashing, light should be affixed front and rear, and that any flashing light was an extra light to aid visibility. we are smitten with exactly the same problems here in oxford, and the local constabulary often have a crackdown, issuing penalty tickets to offenders. these tickets are then cancelled when the offender produces a set of lights at the police station.

It is no longer the case that a non-flashing light is a requirement, in fact this has been the case for at least 4 years.
Flashing lights help drivers spot cyclists, although frankly most drivers struggle to spot other cars, let alone bicycles and pedestrians.
If it is shown that these flashing lights do represent a danger to those with epilepsy, and that this is greater than the safety advantage to cyclists, then this rule may need to be revised, but I think that unlikely.

Nyberg clearly isn't a bright light.
This story is about cyclists who are safe and responsible and use lights. The issue is the safety for people with epilepsy with regards to the type of light used. The story has nothing to do with the idiots who ride without any and they wouldn't be a problem to people with epilepsy anyway would they?
Come on Nyberg move up a gear and keep up with what's going on or switch the light on and read the story properly.

There are various figures quoted across the web but it seems to be around 1% of the population that have epilepsy. According to Rita 5% of them are in some way photosensitive. By my calculation that means 5 out 10000 people are affected in this way - or 78 people out of the B&H population of 156k.

Dave At Home wrote:
Looks like the PC brigade are out again, so will we be trying to ban the red, white and blue flashing lights on the emergency vehicles as well? Surely if people know they "fit" they should try and avoid looking at these flashing lights, it's not as if we stare at the sun when it comes out because we know it will cause blindness.

Surely if people know that they only post moronic nonsense on the internet they should try and avoid computers.......

I use both fixed and flashing lights, front and rear when I ride and I have found them to prove life-savers at certain times when riding in city traffic.
What's interesting in this story, is that fails to mention the fact that the flashing of a computer monitor is also believed to trigger the same sort of fits.
Yet, I don't see any calls for computer monitors to be switched off, redesigned.
Another trigger of fits is carbon monoxide - yet no calls for cars/trucks to be banned from Brighton City Centre.
Cigarette smoke can also trigger fits, yet no calls for smoking to be banned in the streets.
Other triggers include drinking alchohol, stress and so on.
What's telling in this story, is no anecodatal evidence is offered to support the claims made - as in no one has yet had a fit, but only described feeling dizzy and unwell.
Seems to me there are more serious problems they could be tackling concerning the common causes of causing fits.

Didn't take long for the anti-bicycle twits to be attracted to this item to display how limited their knowledge is.
There'll one commenting about bicycles ridden on pavements and jumping red lights soon.

Nyberg wrote:
It's an interesting discussion - but no one seems to have stated the bleedin obvious - most cyclists I see out after dark don't trouble themselves with any sort of illumination - in fact they also think that wearing dark clothing also aids their visibility. And if they happen to be riding the wrong way down a one way street ( as they often do) they think that other motorists are gifted with automatic night vision.

When you've quite finished quoting from your book of cliches perhaps you could form an independant opinion of your own and not be so naive to assume it's a fact.

Whilst there are some cyclists out there who ride without lights etc it is only a small proportion, just like there are a small proportion of car drivers who break the law whilst driving. Both should not be tarred with the same huge brush because you can't distinguish between the minority and majority.

Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of me riding past someone with epile[sy and my lights triggering a fit? Very slim i'd imagine.

if 'photo-sensetive' epileptics are affected by these lights, why do they not get the same problems with emergency vehicles? is this just having a dig at cyclists? flashing lights on cycles does make them easier to spot when you are driving, but they need to be attached to the bike, not the person. i have seen loads with these lights clipped into their back pockets, or on rucksacks, but they can easily slip round so traffic cannot see them.

The flashing Gatso speed cameras give me a headache too.

chroma wrote:
I use both fixed and flashing lights, front and rear when I ride and I have found them to prove life-savers at certain times when riding in city traffic. What's interesting in this story, is that fails to mention the fact that the flashing of a computer monitor is also believed to trigger the same sort of fits. Yet, I don't see any calls for computer monitors to be switched off, redesigned. Another trigger of fits is carbon monoxide - yet no calls for cars/trucks to be banned from Brighton City Centre. Cigarette smoke can also trigger fits, yet no calls for smoking to be banned in the streets. Other triggers include drinking alchohol, stress and so on. What's telling in this story, is no anecodatal evidence is offered to support the claims made - as in no one has yet had a fit, but only described feeling dizzy and unwell. Seems to me there are more serious problems they could be tackling concerning the common causes of causing fits.

Cigarettes? Carbon Monoxide?? I'd be grateful if you could tell me where you have obtained that information as I was unaware that standing by an exhaust while having a cigarette would cause a fit! I'll have to find something else to do with my time!!

You are right about alcohol, stress, computer monitors etc though. I can avoid alcohol, if pc monitors were a problem to me, I could avoid them as well. Stress isn't so easily avoidable though!
How do you know that no-one has suffered a fit/seizure or what ever you want to call them?? I don't go to the doctors everytime I have a fit and tell them!!

Oh sweet jesus, must everything be dumbed down to the level of those least able to cope.
It makes me want to fit the biggest, flashiest, blinking lights to my rear end, just to pi** them off.

I cycle between Lewes and Brighton a lot. There is a part of the cycle path just past Falmer where there is no lighting at all. When you are facing oncoming traffic in the dark, especially if it is raining, a flashing front light of a bike coming towards you can be almost impossible to see.

I don't understand why cyclists think it makes them more visibile. Your eye will track a moving object but a flashing light can easily get lost in the competing glare from car lights. A steady lamp is the safest by far.