Sussex detectives investigate fox hunting claims (From The Argus)

big brave bold men riding on there big horses hunting a little fox,lowlife scumbags they need to get a life.they all look like upper crust stuck up, siht dont stink dicks. and had to spell that word siht differently because it wont let you write it.love to shove that horn where the sun dont shine.

A huntsman got a little excited.
The spokesman makes it sound as if he is in charge of a group of children.
Most of them are thick as two short planks, although the horses are very nice.

The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible.

So the huntsman is on his horse and looks down at a pack of dogs tearing apart a live female fox and he (in the hunt spokesman's words) "gets a little exited" . Says it all really.

Heritage is a dying art

The gods know, I've been a bit over-excited myself in my time but I've never ended up ripping a fox to bits. Well, maybe the once but cider has that effect on me...
The thing that gets me though is that they don't actually hide it very well, do they? I mean, if someone has a crowbar in their bag, they can be nicked for "going equipped". 30 people in bright red on horse back with 20 pairs of hounds, what does anyone think they're going to be doing? A very realistic fancy dress party?
They never gave up hunting & never had any intention to - & I do know this from the circles I move in. Drag hunting is much better as you know you're going to get a run & end up at a pub.
The police should get the helicopter up & keep an eye on the hunts (as it were...) & the hunts can pay for it.

Guarantee there won't be a prosecution. Why? Simply because the sadists involved are those influential types who run the country and the courts. Even Blair was scared stiff to make a watertight law banning this savagery!

Foxes are annoying, they scream all night and rip up all your rubbish & leave it all over your garden.

It was the bloody toffs who sold off the UK, its companies and all its heritage and then they want to keep a little bit for themselves.
A bit rich really.

This is nothing other than a "class warfare" law, designed by the urban classes to stick it to the "gentry", despite this being a pusuit followed by country people of all classes.

The Police have far better things to do than worry about this. Unfortunately, it would appear that many sad people do not.

Exactly Plantpot, there really are some brain-dead people on these forums!

People in a modern western society simply do not want to see others gaining pleasure from the suffering of animals. It's not fair to say it's "class warfare". Dog fighting, which is more associated with working classes, causes just as much disgust.

milkypirate wrote:
People in a modern western society simply do not want to see others gaining pleasure from the suffering of animals. It's not fair to say it's "class warfare". Dog fighting, which is more associated with working classes, causes just as much disgust.

If some of the posters on here actually used a constructive argument against hunting - i.e. it's cruel - then their point of view would be more valid. Unfortunately they appear too stupid to do this and instead mix their argument up with pointless swipes at classes. It smacks of class envy or an inferiority complex rather than a rational argument.

ITS UNCIVILISED she shouted

Following a trail? Blew the horn in excitement? Come on, how gullible do you think we are? A recent YouGov poll found that only 3% of the public trust hunters to regulate themselves, and placed hunters at the very bottom of a list of trustworthy characters. I've watched them lay a "trail" and then watched the hounds walk right past it without reacting at all. From Tony Blair's autobiography we know that he deliberately wrote loopholes into the Act and got Hazel Blears to brief the police not to police it. So it's left to monitors to protect our wildlife. If they're all hunting legally, why are they employing stewards to prevent monitors getting the evidence?

I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

milkypirate wrote:
People in a modern western society simply do not want to see others gaining pleasure from the suffering of animals. It's not fair to say it's "class warfare". Dog fighting, which is more associated with working classes, causes just as much disgust.

>





And you don't think it's class warfare? Is there any other subject that uses outmoded words like "Toff"?

This 'toffs' argument is so tired and old Plantpot. As all reasonable people know, animal abuse has nothing to do with class and to use it is a smokescreen for cruelty. Hunts are breaking the law all the time. The ones who get found out use the same old b***cks, 'the hounds were following a trail.'The law needs changing and tightening then we can nail those who come up with such garbage and don't even have the guts to admit they are law breaking. But what can one expect from animal abusers??

BenUk wrote:
Foxes are annoying, they scream all night and rip up all your rubbish & leave it all over your garden.

And that gives people an excuse to hunt and rip to shreds does it?? If, as the hunters claim, it was an accidental kill then why were they so insistent on recovery of the body? Having been caught on film, it would appear more a case of covering their actions up!! I would hope the illegal activity will result in prosecution either for flouting the anti hunt law or at the least for cruelty to an animal.

Foxes are, whether you like them or not, a creature that has every right to exist...

Yet more rubbish from the intellectually challenged hunt supporters, linking urban foxes and the hunting debate. Is "Another Explanation" from Hove suggesting we have a hunt riding through our City? Would just love to see the reception they'd get! Hunts kill a tiny minority of foxes. Cars kill lots more. Hunts proved what their real motives are when they threatened to kill all the hounds and horses if hunting was banned. They could have gone drag hunting but it wasn't blood thirsty enough for them. Stop treating us all as idiots. You've lost the argument so accept that graciously and disappear. The vast majority of the British public, rural and urban, don't want you hunting our wildlife.

Fight Back wrote:

milkypirate wrote:
People in a modern western society simply do not want to see others gaining pleasure from the suffering of animals. It's not fair to say it's "class warfare". Dog fighting, which is more associated with working classes, causes just as much disgust.

If some of the posters on here actually used a constructive argument against hunting - i.e. it's cruel - then their point of view would be more valid. Unfortunately they appear too stupid to do this and instead mix their argument up with pointless swipes at classes. It smacks of class envy or an inferiority complex rather than a rational argument.

I think the point milkypirate was trying to make is that it is that it is a cruelty issue and not a class one, try reading it again, if not maybe turn it the other way up and try reading it that way around instead!

Yes it is a cruelty issue. I do not consider it a sport to kill a creature for pleasure. That said I have no difficulty with the concept that pests can be killed and this probably includes foxes in some circumstances. So if it is a pest shoot it, don't chase it for fun and then destroy it.

I love all animals and I do not condone cruelty, but the huntsmen are at liberty to come to my garden to get rid of the animals. They leave behind the most god awful stench and create havoc as well. They are prowling about day and night and just look at you if you try to shoo them away, also their constant barking keeps me awake at night. I would like any advice on how to deter them from my ground. I wouldn't mind so much if I lived in the country, but in the middle of town, no way.

So, then, a serious question. How does one control nuisance foxes? And they can be a nuisance!

SuzieB wrote:
Yet more rubbish from the intellectually challenged hunt supporters, linking urban foxes and the hunting debate. Is "Another Explanation" from Hove suggesting we have a hunt riding through our City? Would just love to see the reception they'd get! Hunts kill a tiny minority of foxes. Cars kill lots more. Hunts proved what their real motives are when they threatened to kill all the hounds and horses if hunting was banned. They could have gone drag hunting but it wasn't blood thirsty enough for them. Stop treating us all as idiots. You've lost the argument so accept that graciously and disappear. The vast majority of the British public, rural and urban, don't want you hunting our wildlife.

Hmm, it would seem that the real intellectually challenged could well be you SuzieB with all that hippie drivvel you spout. Fact; in the four years between the ban in 2004 and 2008 fox numbers in urban areas have quadrupled. This is simply because rural ares are now so overpopulated by foxes that they relocate to uban areas for easier meals. You make unfounded assumptions that the 'vast majority' of the British public disagree with fox hunting. I urge you to look at the official Number10 website and I think you'll find that you are chatting out of your backside. Fact; 15900 signatures to repeal the hunting act (ban) laws introduced in 2004 and a measly 270 signatures supporting the hunting act (ban). From what I can see Suzie, you are the one who has lost the argument because you talk rubbish, not me. Now will you crawl in to a hole and disappear please.

How many of you hunt protestors enjoyed a nice Sunday roast on the weekend, or a bacon sandwich this morning. What about the poor Cow, sheep, lamb killed to give you a nice meal. The foxes are killed anyway, by gamekeepers/farmers shooting them because they are not hunted. At least in a hunt sometimes the fox gets away. Not many lambs get out of the slaughterhouse alive!!
You will be banning lions hunting Zebra next, because it looked like the lion smiled after the kill!!

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago.
I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country.
I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder.
But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

Ballroom Blitz wrote:
I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago. I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country. I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder. But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

70% of the population know nothing about the countryside and hence act on what the media tells them not reasoned argument

fascinator wrote:
The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible.

Whilst I agree in parts with your sentiments I think that you will find that fox is both edible and widely eaten in many parts of the world as are many other animals that we'd rather not think of as being part of any staple diet

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote: I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago. I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country. I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder. But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

70% of the population know nothing about the countryside and hence act on what the media tells them not reasoned argument

Well, you could use that childish argument about anything.
Who are you to decide that people know nothing about the countryside?
It's unmitigated arrogance of people like you that convinces me that the ban is completely right.

I hope you all have proof for your sweeping statements such as "they all carry out illegal hunts still" Im sorry can you prove that? The people that go on hunts is people of all classes, people that live in the countryside. They have the most respect for the animals and wildlife and probably more then a lot of you. What do you think of when an eskimo kills a seal or a polar bear? its tricky because its their heritage, both species are on the decline. However foxes are vermin (and horrid creatures) and people hunt them on private land. It is also English Heritage, like it or not. As someone has already said a dog will kill a fox as quick as a bullet would and quicker then a snare. Foxes regularly kill more animals then they need because of greed. We don't seem to mind them doing that though. Our countryside has been carefully created over the years by farmers and hunters. The eco system is balanced by them.

Oh and why has no one mentioned that the people filming this are quite clearly off the pathway and as such tresspassing, an illegal activity.

Ballroom Blitz wrote:
I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago.
I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country.
I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder.
But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

So you want fox hunting to stay banned due to your own prejudices towards people YOU see as a higher class than you rather than for any feelings for the fox ? Given the people that hunt come from a range of classes ( if there really is such a think left ) it makes your argument somewhat pointless.

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote: I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago. I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country. I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder. But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

70% of the population know nothing about the countryside and hence act on what the media tells them not reasoned argument

Well, you could use that childish argument about anything. Who are you to decide that people know nothing about the countryside? It's unmitigated arrogance of people like you that convinces me that the ban is completely right.

How is that childish? Explain further please?
It is not up to me to decide, the fact is 90% of the UK population live in the city. If 20% (and I feel that is generous) are educated or read about the countryside and how it works, that leaves 70% of the population not really understanding (or caring) about what happens in the country. It is a very different way of life.
No arrogance there, just reasoned argument.

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote: I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago. I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country. I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder. But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

70% of the population know nothing about the countryside and hence act on what the media tells them not reasoned argument

Well, you could use that childish argument about anything. Who are you to decide that people know nothing about the countryside? It's unmitigated arrogance of people like you that convinces me that the ban is completely right.

How is that childish? Explain further please? It is not up to me to decide, the fact is 90% of the UK population live in the city. If 20% (and I feel that is generous) are educated or read about the countryside and how it works, that leaves 70% of the population not really understanding (or caring) about what happens in the country. It is a very different way of life. No arrogance there, just reasoned argument.

How is your argument reasoned?
Rightly or wrongly, to exercise one's democratic right one doesn't have to prove to anyone that one knows what what one is voting for, or how one has reached one's personal opinion.
So, with regard to the ban on fox hunting - the population of this country - whether knowledgeable or ignorant - have decided by 70% to 30% in favour of a ban.
It is not for you to question the legitimacy of that opinion, and to do so is arrogant. If you can't see that, then it just shows how arrogant you are.

These people are nothing more than just gutless barbarians! I hope they get prosecuted for breaking the law, as they should, else it just makes a mockery of the justice system!

Putting aside for or against the arguments on fox hunting for a moment, as I said at the beginning of these comments, I think the fact that the huntsman was "excited" by seeing a vixan fox being torn apart, by a pack of dogs, whilst still alive really says it all about those that hunt.

Yes- it appears they may have broken the law - by design or accident. But dont be surprised if the law changes soon and fox hunting (and maybe mink hunting) become legal again. "The Government has pledged to bring forward a motion on a free vote enabling the House of Commons to express its view on the repeal of the Hunting Act. I think it will be a very close vote.

If it is cruel for hounds to kill foxes why isn't it cruel for cats to kill birds just for the fun of it? What about hunting stags just for the antlers? Let's ban everything.

BAN BLOOD SPORTS and I'm animal lover.

What a really stupid thing to say Morpeus! Cats don't actually kill for fun - it's called instinct because they don't know any better. In its wild state, a cat would need this instinct to kill any small prey that moves in order to survive.
Human beings on the other hand can make a moral choice. Plus foxes, like us, have a very developed nervous system, which means they can suffer greatly.
Fox hunting will never be legalised because it is barbaric and shows the level of depravity that some people are willing to sink.
If you pro-hunt scum can stand by and watch an animal screaming as it is eaten alive, then you are the kind of person this world could well do without.
I actually despise anyone who supports such terrible cruelty - and I despise you because you make me feel hatred for you - it's an emotion I'd rather be without.
Those who can watch an animal being cruelly killed could watch a human being being tortured to death. You are vermin and should be got rid of!!

VAT at 20%, petrol prices soaring, house market stagnant, British soldiers dying in Afghanistan and the list of real news goes on and on..... Is anyone really interested in this and shouldn't those interfering in country pursuits get a job or do something worthwhile with their lives. WTF!

... and if the Sussex detectives have nothing better to do perhaps they can go to Bristol and help with the investigation into the murder of Joanna Yeates!

Robert Baggs wrote:
VAT at 20%, petrol prices soaring, house market stagnant, British soldiers dying in Afghanistan and the list of real news goes on and on..... Is anyone really interested in this and shouldn't those interfering in country pursuits get a job or do something worthwhile with their lives. WTF!

What a simple little world you live in. I have a job, and I also have a point of view - not from the media - I can think for myself.
Everyone who pays tax and lives in this country has a RIGHT to 'interfere' in anything they want.
70% of us decided that fox hunting had to stop. So it has, and will stay stopped.
If you don't like it, go and live somewhere else. This is democracy at work.
It's not the anti-hunt lobby that is out of step with public opinion - it's you.

Although brought up in the country, I am not sure that fox hunting by traditional methods is either productive for the eradication of foxes or actually morally correct. Maybe a change from the fox being hunted to your local MP may induce a greater sense of satisfaction!

What a measley argument the pro-hunt supporters proffer for their barbaric rituals. - They are vermin and the death is quicker than being snared. So having a pack of starved huge hounds and a group of individuals mounted on massive horses chasing one fox for miles and miles before being ripped to shreds is humane? If they are vermin, shoot them. Do you dress up in fancy dress costumes and chase around farmland to kill rats? I'm sorry, but you are no different to those twisted individuals that torture abandoned cats and dogs - they are doing it for sport just like you. The only difference is they are prosecuted by the law.

Oh please! Public opinion says.....! Most of the public couldn't really give one, don't kid yourself anyone really cares. They have real issues to deal with.

Hunting with dogs is illegal. However there are exceptions to this. Ratting and taking of rabbits is allowed. Ignoring the rights and wrongs of hunting with dogs, the arguments on this forum seem to be class related. It seems that the majority of the anti fox hunt brigade are more concerned about so called class other than animal wefare. If hunting foxes with hounds is wrong, then so should be the hunting of rats and rabbits with dogs. The vociferous minority are quiet about this. Why? Oh of course ratting and rabbiting is mainly done by the so called working classes. Travellers with there lurchers often go rabbiting. God forbid that we criticise the travelling fraternity.

People talk about anti-fox-hunters really being anti-toff. But what really is class warfare is the fact that while hunting on horse back has always been allowed to continue & lauded as "tradition" & "our heritage", working class blood sports have all been banned. So, if it's not about the poshos having a bit of fun, & the hunting ban is to be ended, bring back the working class blood sports. That'll be bull baiting, bear baiting, badger baiting, ratting, ****-fighting & dog-fighting. I mean, it's all traditional, it's our heritage & it's not about class, is it?

"you nailed it, the zionists who took over our economy,banks and media are hell bent on destroying our country and british culture.
I dont agree with fox hunting,it disgusts me,but its the least of our problems now that us brits are second class citizens in our own country."
Oh dear...
.
Anyway, the ****fighting I was referring to is cockEREL fighting! Heaven forbid anyone on here should see the word for a male chicken!
But, you cannot argue that foxes need to be killed because they are foxes & they behave like foxes. That is just stupid. Yes, foxes are annoying, noisy, smelly & destructive & so are my 5 brothers. They may well cause a nuisance but they are animals & we are not. That is why it is wrong to turn killing them into a fun pass-time. If a child takes joy in the torture of animals (& running for your life from beings who wish to harm you is torture. And if the fox didn't realise it's life is in danger it wouldn't run) that child is abnormal & action is taken.
Hunting may well be a "classless" pursuit, but those "working class" hunters are either very rich or employed by the hunt, which is rare these days.
When all is said & done, the law has been broken & intent is no defence. The law must be applied.
And I'd like to see the hunt belting through Whitehawk in pursuit of an urban fox, they'd have the shoes off the hooves before they got to Swanborough Drive!

SEAGULLS v THE FOXES can not wait until next year!

One of your idiot comments mentions Toffs in Red Coats, there was not one red coat there, Trial Hunting is enjoyed by all types, the problem is that there are so many foxes that sometimes an accident will happen, in this area there are several gamekeepers as there is a big shoot with lots of pheasants and the fox kills no end of them, the land owner needs this income to keep their estates looking good and not being overgrown, this was purely an accident so just get use to it and stop throwing your toys out of your prams.

This is all about perverse social inadequates getting their rocks off chasing a terrified wild animal to exhaustion and then watching it torn to pieces for fun.

There is no place in 21st century Britain for such barbarism. It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history along with bear baiting, ****-fighting and bull baiting. If the Spanish can get rid of bull fighting we can get rid of fox hunting.

so many comments for a pointless story foxes are vermin pure and simple if you want to end suffering of animals do it properly so that mouse traps bug spray roach traps etc are all illegal all cause suffering to animals although to be fair i couldent give a cr@p

Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers.

As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

NatureWatcher wrote:
Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers.

As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

He wasn't panicking nor was he bullying. He wasn't trying to cover anything up, he was just rightfully reclaiming his property. The fox was killed by the hunt, accidently I might add, therefore the dead fox became the legal property of the hunt, not the unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers.

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Chip_cobb wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote: I don't mind who knows that the reason I'm glad fox hunting got banned is because it really stuffed up all the privileged toffs and landed gentry that we should have got rid of years ago. I actually heard one of them saying the fox enjoyed being chased! And those are the people who run our country. I don't think that killing an animal for sport is fun. I'm no vegan liberal do gooder. But the real reason fox hunting should stay banned for good is a democratic one. 70% of the population are against it. It's that simple.

70% of the population know nothing about the countryside and hence act on what the media tells them not reasoned argument

Well, you could use that childish argument about anything. Who are you to decide that people know nothing about the countryside? It's unmitigated arrogance of people like you that convinces me that the ban is completely right.

How is that childish? Explain further please? It is not up to me to decide, the fact is 90% of the UK population live in the city. If 20% (and I feel that is generous) are educated or read about the countryside and how it works, that leaves 70% of the population not really understanding (or caring) about what happens in the country. It is a very different way of life. No arrogance there, just reasoned argument.

How is your argument reasoned?
Rightly or wrongly, to exercise one's democratic right one doesn't have to prove to anyone that one knows what what one is voting for, or how one has reached one's personal opinion.
So, with regard to the ban on fox hunting - the population of this country - whether knowledgeable or ignorant - have decided by 70% to 30% in favour of a ban.
It is not for you to question the legitimacy of that opinion, and to do so is arrogant. If you can't see that, then it just shows how arrogant you are.

And you got that 70-30 figure from where exactly??? I think what you are referring to when you say 70% of the population voted to ban fox hunting is that it was actually 70% of the population OF THE HOUSES OF PARLIMENT that voted to ban fox hunting. Last time I checked, parliment didn't make up the entire popuation of this country. Chipp-cobb has a perfectly reasoned argument, it is you who doesn't.

Personally I think anyone who expresses 'excitement' or 'happiness' at a live animal being torn to shreds for entertainment, needs to be looked at very carefully by social services. Especially if they have children.

Why do so many people think hunting only occurs in England? It also takes place in the USA and Russia, among other places. It developed because foxes are vermin, not cute and cuddly and. It is usually old, ill foxes which are caught by the hunt, not young and healthy ones, which are the ones now being shot and killed. And now, of course, your cute and cuddly foxes with the big eyes are roaming your streets, looking for an opportunity to enter your house and eat whatever it can find. Including your cat and your baby and even your finger.

Another Explanation wrote:

NatureWatcher wrote:
Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers.

As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

He wasn't panicking nor was he bullying. He wasn't trying to cover anything up, he was just rightfully reclaiming his property. The fox was killed by the hunt, accidently I might add, therefore the dead fox became the legal property of the hunt, not the unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers.

"rightfully claiming his property"... a fox is a wild animal (and still not "vermin" according to DEFRA by the way) and if he was doing a service in despatching said fox then it's just a carcass, not "property" and shouldn't belong to anyone. Not unless he wanted it for a trophy.

And what's with this obsession about "unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers"? The pros are always the first to complain when class and toffs are mentioned, so you do yourself no favours in stating that the unemployed are unwashed and hippies.

I was only referring to the video in which the two idiots with nothing better to do than annoy pest controllers are quite clearly unwashed, jobless hippies. Also, in law, a wild animal is a wild animal and belongs to the crown, but once that animal is lawfully killed, in this case, the dog accidentally killed it, then it becomes the legal property of the person or organisation that killed it and they then hold responsibility for disposing of it in a lawful fashion. The dead fox in this video was the legal property of the hunt, therefore they have the legal right to use resonable force to reclaim their property. And as no force was even used in reclaiming it, no offences have been committed by anyone on the hunt. Finally, for the record, I tend to dislike toffs as much as the next man, however like I have already said in a previous post, hunts are made up of people from all walks of life, not just the 'upper classes'.

NatureWatcher wrote:
Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers. As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

Hi Naturewatcher - it was me who made the comment about the sunday roast, making the point that everyone is getting upset over the killing of a fox by dogs, i.e. a predator killing some prey as happens in the wild quite often I would guess. Yet they will happily eat an animal that has been reared just to be killed. People will argue, ah but the cow was going to be killed for essential meat anyway, does that make the cow smile somehow, knowing it has served society. And the fox would probably have been killed anyway as vermin.
Does that make the comment any clearer for you now?

I do wish these neaderthal sadists would stop quoting 'the country' as the reason for their barbaric behavior. I'm from the countryside and the sooner the courts start sending the illegal hunters to prison- the better.

How do you feel about leisure fishing? you know sitting on the bank of a river and lake and impaling a fish on a barbed steel hook then dragging it terrified to the bank and out of its natural environment leaving gasping on the bank while you take a photo to show to your mates before either bashing its brains out to take home or throwing back into the river so that some other "sportsman" can have a go? Nobody seems to want to ban leisure fishing, if fishing was only done by "toffs" you would all be screaming for a ban. Fox numbers are growing, their only natural predators are badgers and golden eagles (who eat the cubs) and now that household waste is usually put in wheelybins these days, foxes are becoming more desperate and bold for food. I dont agree that hunting them on horseback through the countryside is the answer, its not going to control urban foxes anyway.

As I said before, the rights & wrongs of the ban can be debated until the end of time, but the law is in place & it has been broken. We cannot choose laws to apply & laws to ignore, even if we think a particular law is wrong.
That is all there is to say about it & any other argument is erroneous.
On a personal note, I have been hunting, once, as a child. It is an "extreme" sport, the rush is amazing & I can completely understand why some people are addicted. Only the MFH & hunt staff actually see the the kill so the rest of the field can put it out of their minds & enjoy the chase. Drag hunting has always been used (we get the phrase "red herring" from that as a smoked "red" herring would be used for a trail) without the field being informed & it is a way to keep alive a sport without chasing down & killing an animal.
Yes the end is very quick but the chase is not. It is not a humane way to kill an animal which is why it is not used to kill meat animals - there are no hounds breaking necks in slaughter houses.
If hunts were honest & not so defensive, it would help. Accidental kills during drag-hunts will happen & the hunts should be open about that, but it's hard for them to do that when they are pilloried. They have to be defensive because they are attacked (albeit usually only verbally & hunt members can be physically abusive towards protesters) so it is understandable that they like to be secretive.
The MFH should always have a body camera so situations can be reviewed & if an accidental killing occurs a fine can be imposed. For deliberate killings a full prosecution can be brought.
There are so many horse-riders in this country & hunts should campaign to popularise their drag hunting amongst them. This seems like a sensible way forward to me & a way to make hunting a truly egalitarian sport.

Another Explanation wrote:

NatureWatcher wrote:
Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers.

As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

He wasn't panicking nor was he bullying. He wasn't trying to cover anything up, he was just rightfully reclaiming his property. The fox was killed by the hunt, accidently I might add, therefore the dead fox became the legal property of the hunt, not the unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers.

Hahaha.... dear God!! You guys will lie through your teeth to get away with this and for the rest of the nation, it's pathetic to watch. Yes, he panicked, yes the activist was bullied and yes, he was removing the evidence of a CRIME! That in itself is worth a second prosecution. The moment the kill horn was sounded all the bullsh*t whining in the world isn't going sway as far as this is concerned. I'n not anti-hunting where the kill is for food. I am anti-hunting where the kill not for food, where the hunters stand and watch as the fox is disembowelled alive and where those who say this is "classless" are riding around on horses and in "pinks" that 70% of the nation would have to take out a second mortgage for. It's revolting and pure arrogant bloodlust at it's best. **** right they should prosecute. Whatever the nations other problems, and I have concerns there too, allowing mindless torture on animals is one thing we as a nation have to stand up to. Oh, and we do.. 70% want to keep this banned and 70% want to see ANYONE hunting with hounds prosecuted!

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

Washedworker! wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

NatureWatcher wrote: Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers. As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

He wasn't panicking nor was he bullying. He wasn't trying to cover anything up, he was just rightfully reclaiming his property. The fox was killed by the hunt, accidently I might add, therefore the dead fox became the legal property of the hunt, not the unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers.

Hahaha.... dear God!! You guys will lie through your teeth to get away with this and for the rest of the nation, it's pathetic to watch. Yes, he panicked, yes the activist was bullied and yes, he was removing the evidence of a CRIME! That in itself is worth a second prosecution. The moment the kill horn was sounded all the bullsh*t whining in the world isn't going sway as far as this is concerned. I'n not anti-hunting where the kill is for food. I am anti-hunting where the kill not for food, where the hunters stand and watch as the fox is disembowelled alive and where those who say this is "classless" are riding around on horses and in "pinks" that 70% of the nation would have to take out a second mortgage for. It's revolting and pure arrogant bloodlust at it's best. **** right they should prosecute. Whatever the nations other problems, and I have concerns there too, allowing mindless torture on animals is one thing we as a nation have to stand up to. Oh, and we do.. 70% want to keep this banned and 70% want to see ANYONE hunting with hounds prosecuted!

The kill is for food - the hounds love a bit of fox. Where is the evidence of a CRIME as well - a fox was killed, if it was accidental, there is no crime, prove to me otherwise?
And give up with this 70% rubbish. It is from an opinion poll! There have been many opinion polls all giving different results, and opinion polls can be made to give any result you want, depending on who you ask and where!
'puddingandpi' speaks well, the fact is the hunt is secretive because no matter what they do they are villified, there is good and bad on both sides :-)

Now I have watched the video a number of times and you clearly see the rider handling the body. The next shot is that of the abandoned/dumped/dro
pped carcass. Showing that the hunt has decided not to accept responsibility for the body. Not claim the kill. Possibly hoping to pass it off as a "natural" kill between wild animals. But it is interesting that when the body is picked up by the camera people the hunt runs back to claim the kill/evidence. That to me smacks of a guilty conscience.They have broken the law and they know it.

At the end of the day, the people persuing fox hunting are criminals. Its against the law.
Although, I imagine that the same people that support this criminal activity would argue against many other criminal activities.

Chip_cobb wrote:

Washedworker! wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

NatureWatcher wrote: Looks to me like the hunt master was panicking because he knew they had done something illegal. Why else would they want the body back and try to bully the person with it to give it back? They wanted to cover it up as another "accidental kill". There have been far too many of these "accidents" since the ban. It's time the courts dealt properly with these animal abusers. As for the comment about whether someone likes their Sunday roast - What a stupid comment to make. When was the last time anyone sat down to roast fox?

He wasn't panicking nor was he bullying. He wasn't trying to cover anything up, he was just rightfully reclaiming his property. The fox was killed by the hunt, accidently I might add, therefore the dead fox became the legal property of the hunt, not the unwashed, jobless hippie trespassers.

Hahaha.... dear God!! You guys will lie through your teeth to get away with this and for the rest of the nation, it's pathetic to watch. Yes, he panicked, yes the activist was bullied and yes, he was removing the evidence of a CRIME! That in itself is worth a second prosecution. The moment the kill horn was sounded all the bullsh*t whining in the world isn't going sway as far as this is concerned. I'n not anti-hunting where the kill is for food. I am anti-hunting where the kill not for food, where the hunters stand and watch as the fox is disembowelled alive and where those who say this is "classless" are riding around on horses and in "pinks" that 70% of the nation would have to take out a second mortgage for. It's revolting and pure arrogant bloodlust at it's best. **** right they should prosecute. Whatever the nations other problems, and I have concerns there too, allowing mindless torture on animals is one thing we as a nation have to stand up to. Oh, and we do.. 70% want to keep this banned and 70% want to see ANYONE hunting with hounds prosecuted!

The kill is for food - the hounds love a bit of fox. Where is the evidence of a CRIME as well - a fox was killed, if it was accidental, there is no crime, prove to me otherwise?
And give up with this 70% rubbish. It is from an opinion poll! There have been many opinion polls all giving different results, and opinion polls can be made to give any result you want, depending on who you ask and where!
'puddingandpi' speaks well, the fact is the hunt is secretive because no matter what they do they are villified, there is good and bad on both sides :-)

Accidental my ars*, the moment the kill horn was sounded it was game over, and the in-bred who took that fox knew it. The was a crime commited! That horn took away reasonable doubt so dont even try to justify it. And taking the fox was removing evidence of that crime!

The hunts should be vilified. They believe they are above the law and believe because they have wealth on their side they can tramp over democracy. Know where I got this link from? Here... http://www.facebook.
com/#!/pages/Conserv
atives-Against-Fox-H
unting/239237090980

This isnt gonna be made legal again. We'll make **** sure of it!!

I think its disgusting, a crime has clearly been committed.

The video clearly shows two people filming and being on private property.

139% of the public agree that tresspassing is bad and its only carried out by people that wear green.

What is this world coming too?

When will people learn that the old days of hunting only by aristocrats ended almost a century ago? Now, it is undertaken by farmers and other landowners It is a sport developed over a millenium out of a need to deplete the numbers of foxes which will, themselves, kill stock and pets, purely for sport.

Athena wrote:
When will people learn that the old days of hunting only by aristocrats ended almost a century ago? Now, it is undertaken by farmers and other landowners It is a sport developed over a millenium out of a need to deplete the numbers of foxes which will, themselves, kill stock and pets, purely for sport.

I don't have issues with it on a class basis, I have an issue with it because it's cruel.

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

You are clearly mentally challenged so after this, I will not be engaging in any further discussion with you. Go back a thousand years to the huntsman with his bow and arrow, when he made a kill, whether it be a deer or a rabbit, I'm sure he'd have been ecstatic, simply because that's his dinner for the evening. Now regarding myself, I like to shoot, I have done for a long time. I participate in clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting, field archery and target archery. In fact just to boast a little, I was once national under 16's champion at target archery. Once a month I'll also spend the weekend with my friend, a local farmer, and use my guns and my arrows to help with pest control on his farm. I kill rabbits and pidgeons as they are considered pests on farms, however, they are both also very tasty. I smile when I do this because I take pride in the absolute skill needed to shoot a rabbit with a bow and arrow or a flying pidgeon with a shotgun. I enjoy killing a pidgeon the same as I enjoy shooting down a clay disk. It's not the animal I enjoy killing, its the shot that makes it happen I enjoy. Now whilst writing this I have taken a good look at myself as suggested and I have come to the conclusion that there is and never has been anything wrong with me and that I am perfectly grown up. There is however something seriously mentally wrong with people who will eat meat gladly, but complain about people killing animals.

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

You are clearly mentally challenged so after this, I will not be engaging in any further discussion with you. Go back a thousand years to the huntsman with his bow and arrow, when he made a kill, whether it be a deer or a rabbit, I'm sure he'd have been ecstatic, simply because that's his dinner for the evening. Now regarding myself, I like to shoot, I have done for a long time. I participate in clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting, field archery and target archery. In fact just to boast a little, I was once national under 16's champion at target archery. Once a month I'll also spend the weekend with my friend, a local farmer, and use my guns and my arrows to help with pest control on his farm. I kill rabbits and pidgeons as they are considered pests on farms, however, they are both also very tasty. I smile when I do this because I take pride in the absolute skill needed to shoot a rabbit with a bow and arrow or a flying pidgeon with a shotgun. I enjoy killing a pidgeon the same as I enjoy shooting down a clay disk. It's not the animal I enjoy killing, its the shot that makes it happen I enjoy. Now whilst writing this I have taken a good look at myself as suggested and I have come to the conclusion that there is and never has been anything wrong with me and that I am perfectly grown up. There is however something seriously mentally wrong with people who will eat meat gladly, but complain about people killing animals.

There is a whole world of difference in doing a job, as game keepers and farmers do and feeling satisfaction over it, and watching the hounds rip apart another animal (and post-mortem reports prove that the hounds dont cleanly kill and the chase is horrific for the foc) and getting a buzz from it. THAT is sick in anyones book... also the Speaker of the House agrees! There is little support in govenment or out of it. Give it up.

Exactly my sentiments as well Uncle_Meat. And you and Plantpot sound to me like the biggest brain-deads of them all!

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

You are clearly mentally challenged so after this, I will not be engaging in any further discussion with you. Go back a thousand years to the huntsman with his bow and arrow, when he made a kill, whether it be a deer or a rabbit, I'm sure he'd have been ecstatic, simply because that's his dinner for the evening. Now regarding myself, I like to shoot, I have done for a long time. I participate in clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting, field archery and target archery. In fact just to boast a little, I was once national under 16's champion at target archery. Once a month I'll also spend the weekend with my friend, a local farmer, and use my guns and my arrows to help with pest control on his farm. I kill rabbits and pidgeons as they are considered pests on farms, however, they are both also very tasty. I smile when I do this because I take pride in the absolute skill needed to shoot a rabbit with a bow and arrow or a flying pidgeon with a shotgun. I enjoy killing a pidgeon the same as I enjoy shooting down a clay disk. It's not the animal I enjoy killing, its the shot that makes it happen I enjoy. Now whilst writing this I have taken a good look at myself as suggested and I have come to the conclusion that there is and never has been anything wrong with me and that I am perfectly grown up. There is however something seriously mentally wrong with people who will eat meat gladly, but complain about people killing animals.

Mentally challenged? At least I can have a discussion without throwing insults and name calling. And we are not talking about killing for food, we are talking about killing for fun. There's a difference. And anyway, you don't know if I eat meat or not, not that it is any of your business.

Washedworker! wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote: I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

You are clearly mentally challenged so after this, I will not be engaging in any further discussion with you. Go back a thousand years to the huntsman with his bow and arrow, when he made a kill, whether it be a deer or a rabbit, I'm sure he'd have been ecstatic, simply because that's his dinner for the evening. Now regarding myself, I like to shoot, I have done for a long time. I participate in clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting, field archery and target archery. In fact just to boast a little, I was once national under 16's champion at target archery. Once a month I'll also spend the weekend with my friend, a local farmer, and use my guns and my arrows to help with pest control on his farm. I kill rabbits and pidgeons as they are considered pests on farms, however, they are both also very tasty. I smile when I do this because I take pride in the absolute skill needed to shoot a rabbit with a bow and arrow or a flying pidgeon with a shotgun. I enjoy killing a pidgeon the same as I enjoy shooting down a clay disk. It's not the animal I enjoy killing, its the shot that makes it happen I enjoy. Now whilst writing this I have taken a good look at myself as suggested and I have come to the conclusion that there is and never has been anything wrong with me and that I am perfectly grown up. There is however something seriously mentally wrong with people who will eat meat gladly, but complain about people killing animals.

There is a whole world of difference in doing a job, as game keepers and farmers do and feeling satisfaction over it, and watching the hounds rip apart another animal (and post-mortem reports prove that the hounds dont cleanly kill and the chase is horrific for the foc) and getting a buzz from it. THAT is sick in anyones book... also the Speaker of the House agrees! There is little support in govenment or out of it. Give it up.

He won't be the speaker for very long if he continues to express political opinions publicly!

Exactly my sentiments too Uncle_Meat.
And it sounds to me like you and Plantpot are the biggest brain-deads of them all.

Chip_cobb wrote:

Washedworker! wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:

Tippy Toes wrote:

Another Explanation wrote: I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

And there lies the problem 'to have some FUN outdoors'. I seriously worry about the mind set of any person that thinks killing animals is fun? And before you start, I am neither a do-gooder or a hippy.

What do you propose we do then? When I shoot a Pidgeon that is destroying my local farmers crops, am I not allowed to smile a little and enjoy for just a moment, a good shot? Or would you have me cry a little for the cute, helpless birdy-wirdy and say a prayer as it enters Pidgeon heaven? You numpty.

Are you not allowed to smile??? It's the fact that killing something would even make you smile that worries me! I am not suggesting that we never kill anything ever again, it's that fact that someone would actually get pleasure out of it. It's sick. I think that you should maybe have a good look at yourself, and grow up before you start calling people names.

You are clearly mentally challenged so after this, I will not be engaging in any further discussion with you. Go back a thousand years to the huntsman with his bow and arrow, when he made a kill, whether it be a deer or a rabbit, I'm sure he'd have been ecstatic, simply because that's his dinner for the evening. Now regarding myself, I like to shoot, I have done for a long time. I participate in clay pidgeon shooting, target shooting, field archery and target archery. In fact just to boast a little, I was once national under 16's champion at target archery. Once a month I'll also spend the weekend with my friend, a local farmer, and use my guns and my arrows to help with pest control on his farm. I kill rabbits and pidgeons as they are considered pests on farms, however, they are both also very tasty. I smile when I do this because I take pride in the absolute skill needed to shoot a rabbit with a bow and arrow or a flying pidgeon with a shotgun. I enjoy killing a pidgeon the same as I enjoy shooting down a clay disk. It's not the animal I enjoy killing, its the shot that makes it happen I enjoy. Now whilst writing this I have taken a good look at myself as suggested and I have come to the conclusion that there is and never has been anything wrong with me and that I am perfectly grown up. There is however something seriously mentally wrong with people who will eat meat gladly, but complain about people killing animals.

There is a whole world of difference in doing a job, as game keepers and farmers do and feeling satisfaction over it, and watching the hounds rip apart another animal (and post-mortem reports prove that the hounds dont cleanly kill and the chase is horrific for the foc) and getting a buzz from it. THAT is sick in anyones book... also the Speaker of the House agrees! There is little support in govenment or out of it. Give it up.

He won't be the speaker for very long if he continues to express political opinions publicly!

Quite. We can but hope. If Bercow the Hobbit opposes it I'm off to sign up to the nearest hunt.

Unusual for Morpheos to be talking a load of cobblers, but he is today when drawing parallels.
Since when have ****-cats gone out on organised hunting trips in pursuit of birds dressed up to the nines in hunting pinks, same as unsavoury huntspeople do?
Hunting is barbaric and if an animal needs dispatching there is decent an humane way of doing it, and thats the same way as the big-shot bully huntspeople would want it doing if they were in the the animals position.
Nuff said!

If you insist on hunting wild animals illegally then we will insist on following you to gather evidence and your thugs that you employ to keep us away from filming you will never ever stop us.

A wild animal killing another animal is nature. Starving a pack of hounds then releasing them and galloping behind them for miles to see a fox ripped apart for pleasure is pretty warped whichever way you look at it. The real issue here has nothing to do with the fox or the hounds, it is nothing to do with class or tradition or location; the issue is that people are allowed to take pleasure from the tortuous demise of a wild animal.

Ringmer Rich wrote:
A wild animal killing another animal is nature. Starving a pack of hounds then releasing them and galloping behind them for miles to see a fox ripped apart for pleasure is pretty warped whichever way you look at it. The real issue here has nothing to do with the fox or the hounds, it is nothing to do with class or tradition or location; the issue is that people are allowed to take pleasure from the tortuous demise of a wild animal.

The rest is all distraction,what Ringmer Rich says is what I believe too.This is about people getting off on killing animals which has no place in our society.

I'm so bored of hearing the same tired arguments from the pro-hunt community.

Firstly - if you eat meat then you're no better. Yes, except that the abattoirs do actually serve a purpose for the majority of the population. No it may not be the most humane of practices, but then no one who hunts the fox actually eats it. Perhaps if that were the case there wouldn't be such massive public outcry against it.

Secondly - the cat argument. I can't believe that the pro-hunt forum actually thinks that the best way to persuade people round to their way of thinking is to compare themselves to cats. Basically they are saying they are no more intelligent or morally superior than animals. If this is the case then I really do fear for the future of this country. Cats do not kill for fun - they act out of instinct. Instincts that humans can decide not to follow as they know it inflicts pain on another being. Cats do not understand the concept of cruel - they do not perceive their actions as inflicting pain on another creature. Cats are amoral, hunters immoral.

Thirdly - city folk should stay out of countryside business. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise we had separate rules based on postcode. Animal cruelty is a concern for the nation as a whole, not just a small part of it.

Fourthly - it's class warfare. Although some posters here have claimed that it's all about sticking it to the toffs, hunters have, quite rightly, replied that hunts include people from all walks of life. Therefore it surely is not a case of sticking it to the middle/upper classes.

Fifthly - it's faster, less painful, more humane than shooting or trapping. Trapping maybe, but I have witnessed plenty of incidents that go completely against the whole "dogs go for the throat" argument. The dogs go for whatever bit they can grab - usually the hind legs seeing as they're chasing the poor beast.

Sixth most common argument - foxes are vermin. No, they are not classed as vermin by DEFRA, therefore that is opinion, not fact.

Seventh - foxes kill all chickens out of greed. No, if given time it has been proven that foxes will return to the kill site to bury any extra carcasses. The fox does not know when his next feed will be therefore he needs to make provisions. Greed is a human emotion. Again, like cats, foxes are immoral, they do not understand such concepts and trying to personify animals shows a distinct lack of understanding.

Eighth - there are more foxes than ever now. I have seen stated that there are 4 times as many foxes as before the hunting ban. I cannot believe that the hunts really took out that many foxes to make such an impact on numbers. If this is the case, please show the evidence.

Ninth - foxes kill children. I honestly have seen this - attacks on humans are rare. It is certainly no coincidence that the recent scaremongering in the media has come as a result of Cameron wanting a repeal on the ban.

The problem of urban foxes is caused by humans. It is far too easy for them to find food sources. We need to start taking responsibility for our environment and clearing up urban areas. But it is all too easy for humans to find a scapegoat for their problems. We live in a society that would rather sit on its backside and blame someone else than get up and do something about it. We only have ourselves to blame.

Sorry, quick edit - foxes are amoral, like cats, not immoral.

The video doesn't show them breaking the law.. Or am I missing something?

Catkins wrote:
I'm so bored of hearing the same tired arguments from the pro-hunt community.

Firstly - if you eat meat then you're no better. Yes, except that the abattoirs do actually serve a purpose for the majority of the population. No it may not be the most humane of practices, but then no one who hunts the fox actually eats it. Perhaps if that were the case there wouldn't be such massive public outcry against it.

Secondly - the cat argument. I can't believe that the pro-hunt forum actually thinks that the best way to persuade people round to their way of thinking is to compare themselves to cats. Basically they are saying they are no more intelligent or morally superior than animals. If this is the case then I really do fear for the future of this country. Cats do not kill for fun - they act out of instinct. Instincts that humans can decide not to follow as they know it inflicts pain on another being. Cats do not understand the concept of cruel - they do not perceive their actions as inflicting pain on another creature. Cats are amoral, hunters immoral.

Thirdly - city folk should stay out of countryside business. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise we had separate rules based on postcode. Animal cruelty is a concern for the nation as a whole, not just a small part of it.

Fourthly - it's class warfare. Although some posters here have claimed that it's all about sticking it to the toffs, hunters have, quite rightly, replied that hunts include people from all walks of life. Therefore it surely is not a case of sticking it to the middle/upper classes.

Fifthly - it's faster, less painful, more humane than shooting or trapping. Trapping maybe, but I have witnessed plenty of incidents that go completely against the whole "dogs go for the throat" argument. The dogs go for whatever bit they can grab - usually the hind legs seeing as they're chasing the poor beast.

Sixth most common argument - foxes are vermin. No, they are not classed as vermin by DEFRA, therefore that is opinion, not fact.

Seventh - foxes kill all chickens out of greed. No, if given time it has been proven that foxes will return to the kill site to bury any extra carcasses. The fox does not know when his next feed will be therefore he needs to make provisions. Greed is a human emotion. Again, like cats, foxes are immoral, they do not understand such concepts and trying to personify animals shows a distinct lack of understanding.

Eighth - there are more foxes than ever now. I have seen stated that there are 4 times as many foxes as before the hunting ban. I cannot believe that the hunts really took out that many foxes to make such an impact on numbers. If this is the case, please show the evidence.

Ninth - foxes kill children. I honestly have seen this - attacks on humans are rare. It is certainly no coincidence that the recent scaremongering in the media has come as a result of Cameron wanting a repeal on the ban.

The problem of urban foxes is caused by humans. It is far too easy for them to find food sources. We need to start taking responsibility for our environment and clearing up urban areas. But it is all too easy for humans to find a scapegoat for their problems. We live in a society that would rather sit on its backside and blame someone else than get up and do something about it. We only have ourselves to blame.

Brilliant quote. Couldn't agree more!

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

How does hunting in the countryside help to cull foxes in cities, which are miles away? This is a completely illogical statement and just an excuse people use to continue this barbarity. I think there is something emotionally and psychologically lacking in people who enjoy watching any sentient creature being murdered whether it is quick or otherwise. I find it unbelievable that you cannot understand why people would take issue with foxhunters and just write us all off as do-gooding, hippies. Anyone who knows anything about fox hunting knows that it is not just the upper and middles classes that participate, so your class argument doesn't wash.

BB1975 wrote:

Another Explanation wrote: I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

How does hunting in the countryside help to cull foxes in cities, which are miles away? This is a completely illogical statement and just an excuse people use to continue this barbarity. I think there is something emotionally and psychologically lacking in people who enjoy watching any sentient creature being murdered whether it is quick or otherwise. I find it unbelievable that you cannot understand why people would take issue with foxhunters and just write us all off as do-gooding, hippies. Anyone who knows anything about fox hunting knows that it is not just the upper and middles classes that participate, so your class argument doesn't wash.

I'm a bit confused here. Perhaps you can help me out here.



True. That's exactly the point that Another Explanation has made. Are you agreeing with him/her?



Fair enough point but undermined by you writing off your opponents as >. Sauce for the goose, and all that. You can't complain about one side writng off the other while doing prcisely the same thing yourself

I'm a bit confused here. Perhaps you can help me out here.



True. That's exactly the point that Another Explanation has made. Are you agreeing with him/her?



Fair enough point but undermined by you writing off your opponents as >. Sauce for the goose, and all that. You can't complain about one side writng off the other while doing prcisely the same thing yourself

BB1975 wrote:

Another Explanation wrote:
I agree with uncle meat and plantpot. Unfortunately, it's going to take a few more little children to get savaged in their bedrooms by foxes before the government look into changing this stupid law. There is now more foxes than ever roaming our streets. They are a pest, they are vermin, they carry disease and they need to be culled. Believe it or not, the way in which the hounds kill the fox on a hunt is very quick. It may look inhumane however when you see dogs ripping a fox apart, it has already been dead for a while. As soon as a hound catches a fox, it's jaws are wrapped round the throat of the fox making a very quick, clean kill. Remember, dogs are descended from wolves. They don't play with their food before they kill it unlike cats. Hmm, maybe all cat owners should be prosecuted for the inhumane way in which thousands of mice across the land are tortured before they're killed??? Also, contrary to popular belief, it's not only the upper classes that go on hunts, it's people from all walks of life getting together to have some fun outdoors doing a worthwhile job. What will these smelly, unwashed, do-gooder hippies want banning next???

How does hunting in the countryside help to cull foxes in cities, which are miles away? This is a completely illogical statement and just an excuse people use to continue this barbarity. I think there is something emotionally and psychologically lacking in people who enjoy watching any sentient creature being murdered whether it is quick or otherwise. I find it unbelievable that you cannot understand why people would take issue with foxhunters and just write us all off as do-gooding, hippies. Anyone who knows anything about fox hunting knows that it is not just the upper and middles classes that participate, so your class argument doesn't wash.

So you're saying that humans in the city have nothing to do with humans in the country? Now that would be an illogical statement. When food is scarce in an animals natural habitat, they pack up and move elsewhere. In the foxes case, they are coming more and more into our towns and cities for an easy meal because the countryside is overpopulated by them and a meal is now harder to come. Secondly, I have no class argument? You seem to have misunderstood me. I was answering to people that say it's only toffs that hunt, and I was saying that isn't the case.

Cor, took me ages to read all this, still, the fox burgers are fully cooked now.
Can anyone tell me if it horseradish, cranberry or mint sauce I should have with them.
A new alternative sport is needed for the hounds. How about chasing red coated toffs one week and smelly unwashed students the next, might even get on Channel 4

foxes regulate their own numbers and only breed according to food supply so foxhunters trying desperately to claim they are needed to control numbers is complete and utter hogwash! Its a tired old argument that has been disproved yet they hang on to it like a drowning man. Explanations from certain uneducated people who are not worthy of having their names mentioned twice are laughable, one claiming farmers and huntsman actually created our countryside, so not only are they sadistic and barbaric to foxes and wildlife in general they really believe they are actually 'GOD'!
so we can now add the word 'arrogance' to the list. Do these cruel blood lusters actually know the definition of the word 'vermin' (i doubt they do) because if they did they would actually be describing themselves! Keep hunting banned for fox sake!

Juleyanne wrote:
foxes regulate their own numbers and only breed according to food supply so foxhunters trying desperately to claim they are needed to control numbers is complete and utter hogwash! Its a tired old argument that has been disproved yet they hang on to it like a drowning man. Explanations from certain uneducated people who are not worthy of having their names mentioned twice are laughable, one claiming farmers and huntsman actually created our countryside, so not only are they sadistic and barbaric to foxes and wildlife in general they really believe they are actually 'GOD'!
so we can now add the word 'arrogance' to the list. Do these cruel blood lusters actually know the definition of the word 'vermin' (i doubt they do) because if they did they would actually be describing themselves! Keep hunting banned for fox sake!

You could say that vermin are creatures which are a nuisance to man. Whatever the pro-fox club says, foxes do attack sheep, chickens, ducks and even children. You say foxes breed according to food supply. That Malthusian statement applies to any creature, but foxes are encroaching on towns, because the numbers of them are increasing. This is also because of the human garbage left lying around, sometimes randomly by people too lazy to put their half-eaten take-aways in bins, and sometimes because of the intermittent rubbish collection by councils. Nature, indeed, created the countryside, but farmers re-shaped it to the way it looks today.

Farmers may have reshaped much of the countryside but oh what destruction they have made of it!natural landscapes ruined, stripping hedgerows and ancient woodland home for millions of years to much wildlife and insects, their extensive usage of chemicals not only have poisoned insects and mammals that previously lived there has effectively 'broken' the natural food chain. Together with our human need to build on much of the remaining habitats of wildlife including foxes, it is not really a surprise they have now adapted also to living amongst us to survive. DEFRA does NOT class foxes as vermin this hidious label issued out by some ill informed
people who refuse to tolerate any living thing apart from themselves and their hate filled followers, is NOT the view of the masses who are not 'sucked in' by sensationalist and deliberately targeted propaganda aimed at trying to force the public to view the fox as some demonistic
evil creature of folklaw living amongst us, rather than the beautiful natural wild animal it is and its battle against all odds to survive.

You still fail to explain your ludicrous assertion that a decrease in fox-hunting with hounds has led to an increase in urban fox populations.
If you could garnish your reply with hard evidence in the form of the research methods, results, authors and figures to prove this I would be appreciative. I doubt that you can, as I predict will become apparent by your reply, that will include no evidence whatsoever.