Cyclist seriously injured after Hove accident

The Argus: Police cordoned off the junction of The Drive and Church Road, Hove, after the accident Buy this photo » Police cordoned off the junction of The Drive and Church Road, Hove, after the accident

A cyclist was hospitalised with serious head injuries after falling from his bike following a collision with a pick-up truck.

Paramedics attended to the male cyclist on the floor for about 30 minutes following the collision at the junction of Church Road and The Drive in Hove at just before 3.30pm yesterday (September 19).

Onlookers rushed to the man’s aid outside Caffé Nero after hearing a scream and a loud crashing noise.

Eyewitnesses said the man had blood pouring from a head wound.

An air ambulance landed in Grand Avenue but the cyclist was eventually taken to hospital by an ambulance.

Last night he was described as being in a stable condition at Royal Sussex County Hospital , Brighton.

A small section of The Drive and Church Road was closed for more than two hours after the incident as police officers measured the crash site and removed the pick-up truck from the scene. Eyewitnesses said the layout of the junction and the interjoining cycle lane meant near misses were common at the site of the accident.

The previous Conservative administration of Brighton and Hove City Council had considered scrapping the cycle lane at a cost of £1.1 million last year over safety concerns but the incoming Green administration instead agreed improvements.

Shocked

Adrian King, 55, owner of Centrepoint in Church Road, said: “While I have been standing here I’ve seen a number of cyclists go through red lights.

“When cyclists are going up the cycle lane they are in the blind spots of motorists turning and they don’t stand a chance.

“They spent a fortune on the cycle lane but it doesn’t look like it is making it any safer for cyclists.”

Another employee working nearby who didn’t want to be identified said: “You see cyclists going through red lights here every day.”

Michael Tosh, 25 and manager of Caffé Nero, said the incident happened right outside his shop.

He said: “One of our regular customers saw it happen and she was just left in shock.

“We went outside to help him and gave him some loo roll but then the paramedics arrived pretty sharpish.

“He was bleeding quite a lot from his head.”

Anybody who witnessed the incident should contact Sussex Police on 101.

Comments (78)

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10:30am Thu 20 Sep 12

bluemonday says...

i'm slightly confused,was it a pick up truck or lorry,i know the well being of the cyclist is the important issue but misleading stories are what get drivers of certain vehicles demonised.
i'm slightly confused,was it a pick up truck or lorry,i know the well being of the cyclist is the important issue but misleading stories are what get drivers of certain vehicles demonised. bluemonday

10:54am Thu 20 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

We have no idea at this time whose fault this incident is or how it happened.
However, stats show that the majority of serious and fatal accidents with cyclists are with lorries and large vehicles turning left and failing to see cyclists also turning left. In London the high number of fatalities are due to such left turns having railings around them, so the cyclists gets crushed into the railings instead of being catapaulted onto a pavement having some small chance of survival.
There are also impatient drivers who want to turn left and see a cyclist ahead of them blocking their left turn as they would have to wait a minute while the cyclist passes a junction so they speed up slightly ahead of the cyclist, cut in left knocking the cyclist over. This happened to me in New England Road by an impatient driver who just couldn't wait to get to the station and happens repeatedly at the Coombe Road junction on the Lewes Road. Only two weeks ago I saw a cyclist knocked off by a food delivery lorry visiting the shops in Coombe Road.
Stats show that in London the majority of accidents happen this way and the majority of fatalities are female cyclists.
I also find cycle lanes which are not kerbed away from motorists are dangerous.
Last week I was cycling along a lane when a silver Mercedes van pulled into the cycle lane hitting me as he was squeezing past a van stopped in the middle of the road to turn right.
I have reported this van which failed to stop and just could not wait for the van in front of him to turn right.
I am also a car driver and try to be consdierate to all drivers, pedestrians and motorbikes who all have a right to the road.
We have no idea at this time whose fault this incident is or how it happened. However, stats show that the majority of serious and fatal accidents with cyclists are with lorries and large vehicles turning left and failing to see cyclists also turning left. In London the high number of fatalities are due to such left turns having railings around them, so the cyclists gets crushed into the railings instead of being catapaulted onto a pavement having some small chance of survival. There are also impatient drivers who want to turn left and see a cyclist ahead of them blocking their left turn as they would have to wait a minute while the cyclist passes a junction so they speed up slightly ahead of the cyclist, cut in left knocking the cyclist over. This happened to me in New England Road by an impatient driver who just couldn't wait to get to the station and happens repeatedly at the Coombe Road junction on the Lewes Road. Only two weeks ago I saw a cyclist knocked off by a food delivery lorry visiting the shops in Coombe Road. Stats show that in London the majority of accidents happen this way and the majority of fatalities are female cyclists. I also find cycle lanes which are not kerbed away from motorists are dangerous. Last week I was cycling along a lane when a silver Mercedes van pulled into the cycle lane hitting me as he was squeezing past a van stopped in the middle of the road to turn right. I have reported this van which failed to stop and just could not wait for the van in front of him to turn right. I am also a car driver and try to be consdierate to all drivers, pedestrians and motorbikes who all have a right to the road. Maxwell's Ghost

11:31am Thu 20 Sep 12

Russ9294 says...

I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law.
I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law. Russ9294

11:50am Thu 20 Sep 12

polheg says...

I am not saying that motorists are blameless, for they are not. The standards of driving round Brighton are horrendous to say the least. However, cyclists seem to think they are immune to all the rules of the road. No lights, disregarding road markings and signs, and as for traffic lights - what the hell are they? Pedestrians? Don't even get me started.

Regarding this accident, it was only a matter of time. There will be more.

It is time that the rules are properly imposed on ALL road users, with the appropriate punishments to fit. All motorists should resit a theory test at each license renewal, and possibly some form of driving competency test. Cycling tests should be compulsory, and as for pedestrians - well brain transplants should be in order, but as the world is full of idiots that would be a non starter..........
I am not saying that motorists are blameless, for they are not. The standards of driving round Brighton are horrendous to say the least. However, cyclists seem to think they are immune to all the rules of the road. No lights, disregarding road markings and signs, and as for traffic lights - what the hell are they? Pedestrians? Don't even get me started. Regarding this accident, it was only a matter of time. There will be more. It is time that the rules are properly imposed on ALL road users, with the appropriate punishments to fit. All motorists should resit a theory test at each license renewal, and possibly some form of driving competency test. Cycling tests should be compulsory, and as for pedestrians - well brain transplants should be in order, but as the world is full of idiots that would be a non starter.......... polheg

11:53am Thu 20 Sep 12

Cash Cow says...

Russ9294 wrote:
I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law.
If you drive a bus as well as you write, there is no hope for cyclists, or anyone else!
[quote][p][bold]Russ9294[/bold] wrote: I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law.[/p][/quote]If you drive a bus as well as you write, there is no hope for cyclists, or anyone else! Cash Cow

12:25pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Nick Brighton says...

I am a cyclist and a car driver, so see things from both sides of the dashboard. I hope the cyclist makes a speedy recovery.
I also hope that no knee-jerk reactions are made as a result of this and many other cycling accidents. They need to be thoroughly investigated.
One of the reasons that there are more accidents involving cyclists, is that cycling has become more popular, and consequently there are more inexperienced cyclists on the road. Perhaps cycle training should be made available for adults too, without being compulsory?
I agree that WE ALL have a responsibility to ride/drive as safely as possible. Drivers AND cyclists must abide by the Highway Code. It does hack me off, as I wait at Preston Circus lights on my bike, as two or three other cyclists just go straight through. If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers? I think the police should have the authority to confiscate bikes for a period of 24 hours from cyclists riding through red lights or on pavements, or without lights at night.
As we move into Autumn, can I ask my fellow cyclists to wear reflective clothing, have properly working British Standard lights on their bike and wear a helmet (as Bradley Wiggins suggests). Can I ask my fellow drivers to make sure all their car lights work, keep their windows clean and clear of obstructions and to make a good point all the time of REALLY looking, rather than glancing around and to remove distractions.
We'll never stop all accidents, but we might reduce them.
I am a cyclist and a car driver, so see things from both sides of the dashboard. I hope the cyclist makes a speedy recovery. I also hope that no knee-jerk reactions are made as a result of this and many other cycling accidents. They need to be thoroughly investigated. One of the reasons that there are more accidents involving cyclists, is that cycling has become more popular, and consequently there are more inexperienced cyclists on the road. Perhaps cycle training should be made available for adults too, without being compulsory? I agree that WE ALL have a responsibility to ride/drive as safely as possible. Drivers AND cyclists must abide by the Highway Code. It does hack me off, as I wait at Preston Circus lights on my bike, as two or three other cyclists just go straight through. If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers? I think the police should have the authority to confiscate bikes for a period of 24 hours from cyclists riding through red lights or on pavements, or without lights at night. As we move into Autumn, can I ask my fellow cyclists to wear reflective clothing, have properly working British Standard lights on their bike and wear a helmet (as Bradley Wiggins suggests). Can I ask my fellow drivers to make sure all their car lights work, keep their windows clean and clear of obstructions and to make a good point all the time of REALLY looking, rather than glancing around and to remove distractions. We'll never stop all accidents, but we might reduce them. Nick Brighton

12:38pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Valerie Paynter says...

We need cyclist-protective laws - training for survival being one of them.

Years ago in London I was partway into an intersection when an Embassy licensed car overtook me to make the classic left turn that knocked me off my bike.

No cyclist can responsibly engage with an intersection whilst also looking over their right shoulder to ensure this kind of accident won't befall them.

It is just this kind of traffic accident fear that is taking cyclists off the roads (where they belong) and onto the pavements.

Today, as parents read this story, they will be more determined than ever to teach their children to ride on the pavement and not on the road.

One serious point about this intersection that everyone needs to know: It was redesigned and altered only a year or so back over and above that cycle lane situation for pedestrian safety and crossings 4 ways.

How did this influence what happened yesterday. This must be a question for the police to look into.
We need cyclist-protective laws - training for survival being one of them. Years ago in London I was partway into an intersection when an Embassy licensed car overtook me to make the classic left turn that knocked me off my bike. No cyclist can responsibly engage with an intersection whilst also looking over their right shoulder to ensure this kind of accident won't befall them. It is just this kind of traffic accident fear that is taking cyclists off the roads (where they belong) and onto the pavements. Today, as parents read this story, they will be more determined than ever to teach their children to ride on the pavement and not on the road. One serious point about this intersection that everyone needs to know: It was redesigned and altered only a year or so back over and above that cycle lane situation for pedestrian safety and crossings 4 ways. How did this influence what happened yesterday. This must be a question for the police to look into. Valerie Paynter

1:28pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Andrew_N_Hove says...

I was sitting about 3metres away at Nero's when it happened, I was staring right at the corner when it happened and saw the cyclist go down and his head go under the rear double wheels of the van as well as its trailer. The man then tried to get up and crawl to the pavement with blood pouring everywhere, it was terrible. I didn't see whose fault it was - at this point, i just hope the man recovers. I think the van just took a tighter line around the corner than the bike, tapped him and then he went down in a horrible manner (but I can't be sure). I am a cyclist myself, and this reinforces the need for care and respect from all road users - cyclists not to skip the lights (as a lot of people do there), and drivers (esp wide, heavy or long loads) to give cyclists space. The lady who went over to the man was amazing - I did no more than dial 999, time seemed to slow. I hope I never see something like this again.
I was sitting about 3metres away at Nero's when it happened, I was staring right at the corner when it happened and saw the cyclist go down and his head go under the rear double wheels of the van as well as its trailer. The man then tried to get up and crawl to the pavement with blood pouring everywhere, it was terrible. I didn't see whose fault it was - at this point, i just hope the man recovers. I think the van just took a tighter line around the corner than the bike, tapped him and then he went down in a horrible manner (but I can't be sure). I am a cyclist myself, and this reinforces the need for care and respect from all road users - cyclists not to skip the lights (as a lot of people do there), and drivers (esp wide, heavy or long loads) to give cyclists space. The lady who went over to the man was amazing - I did no more than dial 999, time seemed to slow. I hope I never see something like this again. Andrew_N_Hove

1:43pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

All the cycle lanes and all the pedestrian crossing in Brighton are potentially dangerous. It is as simple as that.
We put in expensive schemes but consistently refuse to address the basics, which are IMHO that of priority.
Pedestrians, who are the most vulnerable, should have the highest and then it works down the pecking order.
In Germany and other countries when a vehicle turns either left or right it must give way to both pedestrians and cyclists.
A vehicle may have a green light to turn left or right but pedestrians will also have a green light and take priority.
We've been wishy washy and faffed about too long and are paying the price.
In addition the Highway Code which is ridiculously dumbed down needs to be made half the size and become law, not as it largely is now, advice.
All the cycle lanes and all the pedestrian crossing in Brighton are potentially dangerous. It is as simple as that. We put in expensive schemes but consistently refuse to address the basics, which are IMHO that of priority. Pedestrians, who are the most vulnerable, should have the highest and then it works down the pecking order. In Germany and other countries when a vehicle turns either left or right it must give way to both pedestrians and cyclists. A vehicle may have a green light to turn left or right but pedestrians will also have a green light and take priority. We've been wishy washy and faffed about too long and are paying the price. In addition the Highway Code which is ridiculously dumbed down needs to be made half the size and become law, not as it largely is now, advice. Old Ladys Gin

1:57pm Thu 20 Sep 12

ruberducker says...

im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i
f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus
im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus ruberducker

2:01pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

I would like to make a quick comment to say that this accident would have happened, cycle lane or not. Judging from the picture of the accident the van and cyclist were taking a left turn from Church Road to The Drive making the matter of the cycle lane irrelevant. Hopefully this article can be amended to remove reference to the cycle lane so as not to influence public opinion about its safety.

I also hope that there's CCTV imagery so that we can verify the vehicle hadn't encroached into the Advanced Cycle Zone and was clearly signalling to turn left. If this driver was following the law then unfortunately the cyclist should have used more precaution when negotiating next to a large left-turning vehicle.

That's not to say he's to blame at all, rather it's just an unfortunate accident. And I do hope he makes a full and speedy recovery from this.
I would like to make a quick comment to say that this accident would have happened, cycle lane or not. Judging from the picture of the accident the van and cyclist were taking a left turn from Church Road to The Drive making the matter of the cycle lane irrelevant. Hopefully this article can be amended to remove reference to the cycle lane so as not to influence public opinion about its safety. I also hope that there's CCTV imagery so that we can verify the vehicle hadn't encroached into the Advanced Cycle Zone and was clearly signalling to turn left. If this driver was following the law then unfortunately the cyclist should have used more precaution when negotiating next to a large left-turning vehicle. That's not to say he's to blame at all, rather it's just an unfortunate accident. And I do hope he makes a full and speedy recovery from this. Fercri Sakes

2:09pm Thu 20 Sep 12

deanaprior says...

Someone is seriously injured and we get the usual cyclist rant from fundamentalist motorists.
Someone is seriously injured and we get the usual cyclist rant from fundamentalist motorists. deanaprior

2:27pm Thu 20 Sep 12

HJarrs says...

What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc.

I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.
What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc. I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual. HJarrs

2:45pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Jacobdog says...

ruberducker - your views are so stupid that you don't deserve the privilege of free speech; so please, hush now why the adults talk.

I regularly pass that junction on my bike and watch cars ignore the red light for the right turns because they are too stupid and selfish to pay attention.

If the motorist is at fault then i hope he's convicted.
ruberducker - your views are so stupid that you don't deserve the privilege of free speech; so please, hush now why the adults talk. I regularly pass that junction on my bike and watch cars ignore the red light for the right turns because they are too stupid and selfish to pay attention. If the motorist is at fault then i hope he's convicted. Jacobdog

3:26pm Thu 20 Sep 12

graham_Seagull says...

from the pic and Andrew_N's witness account it looks as if the driver has turned left straight across the cyclist and forgotten about the trailer attached to the rear, which will flatten the corner, giving the cyclist absolutely no chance.

Fingers crossed the guy is ok.
from the pic and Andrew_N's witness account it looks as if the driver has turned left straight across the cyclist and forgotten about the trailer attached to the rear, which will flatten the corner, giving the cyclist absolutely no chance. Fingers crossed the guy is ok. graham_Seagull

3:29pm Thu 20 Sep 12

graham_Seagull says...

ruberducker wrote:
im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i

f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus
there are laws, unfortunately not enforced enough.

The cyclists do pay taxes to be on the road - we all pay taxes (unless we're bankers of course).

But aside from that your comments are tasteless and relect that your driving skills and patience are poor.
[quote][p][bold]ruberducker[/bold] wrote: im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus[/p][/quote]there are laws, unfortunately not enforced enough. The cyclists do pay taxes to be on the road - we all pay taxes (unless we're bankers of course). But aside from that your comments are tasteless and relect that your driving skills and patience are poor. graham_Seagull

3:42pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Fairfax Sakes says...

Hope there are soem wider lessons to be learned from this terrible ACCIDENT.
Yes, cars and particularly HGVs need to be as vigilant as possible, expecially in left turn scenarios.
However, its crucial that cyclists are made aware (compulsorily if needed) of the risks and how to minimise them. In particular the danger of weaving beside or between large vehicles: a car hits you and you'll probably survive, a lorry hits you, you might not.
Hope there are soem wider lessons to be learned from this terrible ACCIDENT. Yes, cars and particularly HGVs need to be as vigilant as possible, expecially in left turn scenarios. However, its crucial that cyclists are made aware (compulsorily if needed) of the risks and how to minimise them. In particular the danger of weaving beside or between large vehicles: a car hits you and you'll probably survive, a lorry hits you, you might not. Fairfax Sakes

4:28pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too! Poccypoc

4:45pm Thu 20 Sep 12

graham_Seagull says...

Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you. graham_Seagull

4:53pm Thu 20 Sep 12

mickeyflick says...

i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road,
i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road, mickeyflick

4:55pm Thu 20 Sep 12

BiggerH says...

HJarrs wrote:
What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc.

I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.
exactly - nowadays, it seems acceptable that as long as a lorry has a sticker on the back saying 'if you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you' eveything is ok
if a lorry driver can't see what's going on behind (with or without mirrors) then it shouldn't be on the road.

as someone above says 'If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers?'. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
Car/van drivers preach on about all the accidents occuring due to cyclists going through red lights, but in reality what they really mean is 'I'm annoyed/jealous that I can't go through red lights like the cyclists' and that is what creates this animosity
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc. I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.[/p][/quote]exactly - nowadays, it seems acceptable that as long as a lorry has a sticker on the back saying 'if you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you' eveything is ok if a lorry driver can't see what's going on behind (with or without mirrors) then it shouldn't be on the road. as someone above says 'If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers?'. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Car/van drivers preach on about all the accidents occuring due to cyclists going through red lights, but in reality what they really mean is 'I'm annoyed/jealous that I can't go through red lights like the cyclists' and that is what creates this animosity BiggerH

5:28pm Thu 20 Sep 12

graham_Seagull says...

mickeyflick wrote:
i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road,
take a look at the picture and have a read of the Andrew_N account in the comments above; it indicates the van + trailer and the cyclist were going around the corner into the Drive, so it looks as though the cyclist didnt stand a chance as the trailer would have flattened the corner.

So whilst I take your point there are too many cyclists who dont appreciate the dangers by going up the inside of vehicles, it doesn't sound a factor in this sad moment.

I saw a police car driver stop the other day to let a cyclist ride across the road in front of the car from one pavement to the other, and the officer didnt say a word.

Stupid people are stupid people whether they be on a bike or a car.
[quote][p][bold]mickeyflick[/bold] wrote: i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road,[/p][/quote]take a look at the picture and have a read of the Andrew_N account in the comments above; it indicates the van + trailer and the cyclist were going around the corner into the Drive, so it looks as though the cyclist didnt stand a chance as the trailer would have flattened the corner. So whilst I take your point there are too many cyclists who dont appreciate the dangers by going up the inside of vehicles, it doesn't sound a factor in this sad moment. I saw a police car driver stop the other day to let a cyclist ride across the road in front of the car from one pavement to the other, and the officer didnt say a word. Stupid people are stupid people whether they be on a bike or a car. graham_Seagull

5:42pm Thu 20 Sep 12

mickeyflick says...

I saw a police car driver stop the other day to let a cyclist ride across the road in front of the car from one pavement to the other, and the officer didnt say a word.

Stupid people are stupid people whether they be on a bike or a car.

i totally agree with you, and as i said, i wasn't saying the cyclist is to blame, my point was there are some inconsiderate people on the road, and as for the police, if they can't be bothered to inforce the laws of the road, because it's too much paperwork, they shouldn't be doing the job,
i wish the cyclist a speedy recovery
I saw a police car driver stop the other day to let a cyclist ride across the road in front of the car from one pavement to the other, and the officer didnt say a word. Stupid people are stupid people whether they be on a bike or a car. i totally agree with you, and as i said, i wasn't saying the cyclist is to blame, my point was there are some inconsiderate people on the road, and as for the police, if they can't be bothered to inforce the laws of the road, because it's too much paperwork, they shouldn't be doing the job, i wish the cyclist a speedy recovery mickeyflick

5:44pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

graham seagull, there are often ocassions that when I start a left turn on a bike a lorry/van/bus comes up my side and turns a tight left and I've had to go up the pavement so it's not always the case of a cyclist weaving up the inside and not being seen.
If a large vehicle is already at a junction waiting to turn left, I will wait behind it as I know it is afer to allow it to carry out its turn with me behind.
However, I believe that investigations are also underway in London where cyclists have gone to the front of traffic and sat in the special cycle area which has been designed so drivers can see them, yet still they have been squashed as drivers have turned left and not been paying attention.
And I can tell you that many, many motorists do not keep these cycle areas free, they just drive onto them so cyclists have no safe area.
Until penalties are put in place, these motorists will continue to do it.
When we travel tonight, perhaps we should all think bike.
Thought doesn't cost a penny but thoughtlessness costs lives.
graham seagull, there are often ocassions that when I start a left turn on a bike a lorry/van/bus comes up my side and turns a tight left and I've had to go up the pavement so it's not always the case of a cyclist weaving up the inside and not being seen. If a large vehicle is already at a junction waiting to turn left, I will wait behind it as I know it is afer to allow it to carry out its turn with me behind. However, I believe that investigations are also underway in London where cyclists have gone to the front of traffic and sat in the special cycle area which has been designed so drivers can see them, yet still they have been squashed as drivers have turned left and not been paying attention. And I can tell you that many, many motorists do not keep these cycle areas free, they just drive onto them so cyclists have no safe area. Until penalties are put in place, these motorists will continue to do it. When we travel tonight, perhaps we should all think bike. Thought doesn't cost a penny but thoughtlessness costs lives. Maxwell's Ghost

5:49pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

mickeyflick wrote:
i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road,
Re: the issue of 'sneaking up the inside'. The junction in question has a filter lane for the sole purpose to allow cycles to get the Advanced Cycle Zones. It's been designed so that we can 'sneak up' (or as I prefer it, 'lawfully cycle') in front of the traffic for safety and visibility.

We're often thwarted in our attempts by vehicles parking in this filter lane and, more often than not, in the actual clearly marked ACZs.

So unfortunately the aggresive actions at these junctions of some drivers, such as the poster above you (Poccypoc) who enjoys cutting these cyclists up, are illegal and dangerous and I wish they would kindly desist.
[quote][p][bold]mickeyflick[/bold] wrote: i drive a lorry around brighton almost every day, and every day is the same, cyclists jumping red lights, sneaking up the inside of you when there is no room, cutting up traffic, its an accident waiting to happen, i'm not saying the cyclist is to blame, as we don't know the facts, but if you are going to use the road, obey the codes of the road, it should be an instant £60 fine for cyclists jumping red lights, and if they have a driving licence, 3 points on their licence, the rules apply to everyone, if you cant read the road signs, and lights, keep off the road,[/p][/quote]Re: the issue of 'sneaking up the inside'. The junction in question has a filter lane for the sole purpose to allow cycles to get the Advanced Cycle Zones. It's been designed so that we can 'sneak up' (or as I prefer it, 'lawfully cycle') in front of the traffic for safety and visibility. We're often thwarted in our attempts by vehicles parking in this filter lane and, more often than not, in the actual clearly marked ACZs. So unfortunately the aggresive actions at these junctions of some drivers, such as the poster above you (Poccypoc) who enjoys cutting these cyclists up, are illegal and dangerous and I wish they would kindly desist. Fercri Sakes

7:32pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't.
I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign.
And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy.
So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't. I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign. And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy. Maxwell's Ghost

7:38pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
[quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them. Poccypoc

7:40pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.
I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law. Poccypoc

7:44pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
And if you do that at a junction with a cycle filter and an Advanced Cycle Zone you are purposely driving dangerously.

Do you also stop over the ACZ to prevent the cyclist taking their rightful position? It's a very selfish and dangerous use of the roads that both you and the cyclist pay for.
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]And if you do that at a junction with a cycle filter and an Advanced Cycle Zone you are purposely driving dangerously. Do you also stop over the ACZ to prevent the cyclist taking their rightful position? It's a very selfish and dangerous use of the roads that both you and the cyclist pay for. Fercri Sakes

7:49pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

Poccypoc wrote:
I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.
Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade.

But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street.

Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy.
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.[/p][/quote]Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade. But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street. Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy. Fercri Sakes

8:16pm Thu 20 Sep 12

SmileyD says...

One thing which would certainly help would be if motorists and cyclists alike remembered to indicate before making a turn. I cycle regularly and am constantly having to make allowances for other road-users who don't make their intentions clear - or leave it to the last possible moment to do so. It really doesn't require much effort (for the motorist a simple flick of a switch surely isn't too much to ask?) This also applies when people are pulling out of parking spaces or pulling up at the side of the road. It seems pretty obvious that if we are all aware of other road-users' intentions we will act accordingly and the roads will be safer for everyone.

That said, there is no suggestion at present that a lack of signalling contributed in any way to this terrible accident. My thoughts are with everybody involved and I sincerely hope that the injured man makes a full recovery.
One thing which would certainly help would be if motorists and cyclists alike remembered to indicate before making a turn. I cycle regularly and am constantly having to make allowances for other road-users who don't make their intentions clear - or leave it to the last possible moment to do so. It really doesn't require much effort (for the motorist a simple flick of a switch surely isn't too much to ask?) This also applies when people are pulling out of parking spaces or pulling up at the side of the road. It seems pretty obvious that if we are all aware of other road-users' intentions we will act accordingly and the roads will be safer for everyone. That said, there is no suggestion at present that a lack of signalling contributed in any way to this terrible accident. My thoughts are with everybody involved and I sincerely hope that the injured man makes a full recovery. SmileyD

8:19pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Fercri Sakes wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
And if you do that at a junction with a cycle filter and an Advanced Cycle Zone you are purposely driving dangerously.

Do you also stop over the ACZ to prevent the cyclist taking their rightful position? It's a very selfish and dangerous use of the roads that both you and the cyclist pay for.
No, I only try to do that if there is NO cycle lane! Do you think I'm a lawbreaker?! I just don't want the cyclist scratching my car.
[quote][p][bold]Fercri Sakes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]And if you do that at a junction with a cycle filter and an Advanced Cycle Zone you are purposely driving dangerously. Do you also stop over the ACZ to prevent the cyclist taking their rightful position? It's a very selfish and dangerous use of the roads that both you and the cyclist pay for.[/p][/quote]No, I only try to do that if there is NO cycle lane! Do you think I'm a lawbreaker?! I just don't want the cyclist scratching my car. Poccypoc

8:20pm Thu 20 Sep 12

ruberducker says...

Jacobdog wrote:
ruberducker - your views are so stupid that you don't deserve the privilege of free speech; so please, hush now why the adults talk.

I regularly pass that junction on my bike and watch cars ignore the red light for the right turns because they are too stupid and selfish to pay attention.

If the motorist is at fault then i hope he's convicted.
why did i hit a nervre,or is your lycra shorts cutting off you supply of oxygen to your brain....
[quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: ruberducker - your views are so stupid that you don't deserve the privilege of free speech; so please, hush now why the adults talk. I regularly pass that junction on my bike and watch cars ignore the red light for the right turns because they are too stupid and selfish to pay attention. If the motorist is at fault then i hope he's convicted.[/p][/quote]why did i hit a nervre,or is your lycra shorts cutting off you supply of oxygen to your brain.... ruberducker

8:21pm Thu 20 Sep 12

graham_Seagull says...

Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you graham_Seagull

8:23pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Fercri Sakes wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.
Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade.

But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street.

Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy.
I am actually pro-cyclist, too. When I am cycling. I never use cycle lanes because I firmly believe the onus is on cyclists to behave properly among vehicles on the roads. I always wear a helmet when I am cycling. I sometimes wait for 10-20 minutes if I am cycling south along Grand Parade in Brighton, and want to turn right into the road where the Dome is - Church St, is it?
[quote][p][bold]Fercri Sakes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.[/p][/quote]Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade. But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street. Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy.[/p][/quote]I am actually pro-cyclist, too. When I am cycling. I never use cycle lanes because I firmly believe the onus is on cyclists to behave properly among vehicles on the roads. I always wear a helmet when I am cycling. I sometimes wait for 10-20 minutes if I am cycling south along Grand Parade in Brighton, and want to turn right into the road where the Dome is - Church St, is it? Poccypoc

8:26pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
[quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere. Poccypoc

9:11pm Thu 20 Sep 12

DougM says...

ruberducker wrote:
im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i

f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus
You're a bit dim aren't you?
[quote][p][bold]ruberducker[/bold] wrote: im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus[/p][/quote]You're a bit dim aren't you? DougM

9:50pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

You made me laugh DougM.
I am not sure some of these posters could even complete an insurance form or a driving licence application form let alone read a road sign.
You made me laugh DougM. I am not sure some of these posters could even complete an insurance form or a driving licence application form let alone read a road sign. Maxwell's Ghost

10:54pm Thu 20 Sep 12

secretrabbit says...

I crossed the road towards Grand Avenue in front of this truck as it was waiting at the lights. The driver thought it was huge fun revving his engine at the lights to scare crossing pedestrians and then sped towards the corner as the lights changed. As I was facing south, my only awareness of the accident was the sound of a vehicle hitting/mounting the kerb, a terrible cry and a horrific metallic crunching noise. I have no idea where the cyclist came from, I didn’t see him.

I have seen lots of bad driving in Brighton. I have also seen lots of bad cycling in Brighton. Drivers should know that their vehicles can kill unless they drive sensibly and carefully, and cyclists should know that they will always come out worse if they take risks around traffic, at lights and at junctions (why on earth cyclists use roads when there is are dedicated lanes for them only yards away defeats me). The road is not a race track for insecure drivers to show off, nor is it an adventure park for cyclists.
I crossed the road towards Grand Avenue in front of this truck as it was waiting at the lights. The driver thought it was huge fun revving his engine at the lights to scare crossing pedestrians and then sped towards the corner as the lights changed. As I was facing south, my only awareness of the accident was the sound of a vehicle hitting/mounting the kerb, a terrible cry and a horrific metallic crunching noise. I have no idea where the cyclist came from, I didn’t see him. I have seen lots of bad driving in Brighton. I have also seen lots of bad cycling in Brighton. Drivers should know that their vehicles can kill unless they drive sensibly and carefully, and cyclists should know that they will always come out worse if they take risks around traffic, at lights and at junctions (why on earth cyclists use roads when there is are dedicated lanes for them only yards away defeats me). The road is not a race track for insecure drivers to show off, nor is it an adventure park for cyclists. secretrabbit

11:40pm Thu 20 Sep 12

secretrabbit says...

Poccypoc wrote:
Fercri Sakes wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.
Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade.

But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street.

Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy.
I am actually pro-cyclist, too. When I am cycling. I never use cycle lanes because I firmly believe the onus is on cyclists to behave properly among vehicles on the roads. I always wear a helmet when I am cycling. I sometimes wait for 10-20 minutes if I am cycling south along Grand Parade in Brighton, and want to turn right into the road where the Dome is - Church St, is it?
If you used the cycle lane along The Steine and then crossed at the pedestrian crossing with your bike i.e at the gateway to the Pavilion Gardens, you would have saved time (even beating drivers aiming for the same destination) and had a safer journey. I love the fact that cycling offers so many options for choice of route and hey, try parking a car on the pavement and see what happens!
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fercri Sakes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: I've just seen a cyclist go through a red light outsidde Tesco in Church Road, Hove. Woman about 50. I pumped her, but she was oblivious to it. Thankfully, no-one was crossing the road when she broke the law.[/p][/quote]Wonderful anecdote there. Really swaying my opinion towards the anti-cycle brigade. But, only last week I saw a car go the wrong way down a one-way street. Woosh, I'm pulled right back to the pro-cyclist side again. We'd better stop this as I'm getting dizzy.[/p][/quote]I am actually pro-cyclist, too. When I am cycling. I never use cycle lanes because I firmly believe the onus is on cyclists to behave properly among vehicles on the roads. I always wear a helmet when I am cycling. I sometimes wait for 10-20 minutes if I am cycling south along Grand Parade in Brighton, and want to turn right into the road where the Dome is - Church St, is it?[/p][/quote]If you used the cycle lane along The Steine and then crossed at the pedestrian crossing with your bike i.e at the gateway to the Pavilion Gardens, you would have saved time (even beating drivers aiming for the same destination) and had a safer journey. I love the fact that cycling offers so many options for choice of route and hey, try parking a car on the pavement and see what happens! secretrabbit

6:48am Fri 21 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

The chilli festival was on last weekend and when I cycled along the cycle lane in the Steine a motorcyclist had parked up on the lane horizontally blocking the lane completely so cyclists had to cycle on the pavement with the visitors meandering out of the festival.
Unless cycle lanes are kerbed as they are in some parts of Europe and London ie Kingston Bridge, they end up being bloody dangerous for cyclist and pedestrians and abused by motorists.
The chilli festival was on last weekend and when I cycled along the cycle lane in the Steine a motorcyclist had parked up on the lane horizontally blocking the lane completely so cyclists had to cycle on the pavement with the visitors meandering out of the festival. Unless cycle lanes are kerbed as they are in some parts of Europe and London ie Kingston Bridge, they end up being bloody dangerous for cyclist and pedestrians and abused by motorists. Maxwell's Ghost

6:51am Fri 21 Sep 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

And having read some possible witness comments above, if this case goes to court I hope the argus will follow the case for us so the speculation is cleared up and perhaps we can all learn some lessons from this terrible incident.
And having read some possible witness comments above, if this case goes to court I hope the argus will follow the case for us so the speculation is cleared up and perhaps we can all learn some lessons from this terrible incident. Maxwell's Ghost

7:52am Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know. Old Ladys Gin

7:56am Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't.
I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign.
And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy.
Be warned it could be coming!
In Spain a cyclist can have points (taken not added over there - you start with 12) taken from their driving licence for cycling offences.
It has also happened in the UK that a cyclist found to be drunk had his driving licence removed.
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't. I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign. And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy.[/p][/quote]Be warned it could be coming! In Spain a cyclist can have points (taken not added over there - you start with 12) taken from their driving licence for cycling offences. It has also happened in the UK that a cyclist found to be drunk had his driving licence removed. Old Ladys Gin

8:17am Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

There has been some talk about Advanced Cycle Zones in posts about this collision.
The following may be of interest and goes to show IMHO how confusing the present day Highway Code has become;

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/environment/20
10/jul/29/cycling-ad
vance-stop-line
There has been some talk about Advanced Cycle Zones in posts about this collision. The following may be of interest and goes to show IMHO how confusing the present day Highway Code has become; http://www.guardian. co.uk/environment/20 10/jul/29/cycling-ad vance-stop-line Old Ladys Gin

8:43am Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

http://www.direct.go
v.uk/en/TravelAndTra
nsport/Highwaycode/D
G_070332


Para 178 plainly shows that vehicles may enter the Advanced Cycle Lane is specific circumstances.

I honestly wonder if these Advanced Lanes are for safety or are proving a dangerous compromise.

Would it not be better at junction for the cycle lane to have signals of their own - these could be combined with the pedestrian lights and the cyclist give way to any road users on foot - it works in Holland very well and they have one of the lowest cyclis and pedestrian casualty rates in the EU.
http://www.direct.go v.uk/en/TravelAndTra nsport/Highwaycode/D G_070332 Para 178 plainly shows that vehicles may enter the Advanced Cycle Lane is specific circumstances. I honestly wonder if these Advanced Lanes are for safety or are proving a dangerous compromise. Would it not be better at junction for the cycle lane to have signals of their own - these could be combined with the pedestrian lights and the cyclist give way to any road users on foot - it works in Holland very well and they have one of the lowest cyclis and pedestrian casualty rates in the EU. Old Ladys Gin

8:53am Fri 21 Sep 12

Plantpot says...

Of course, the simple answer for all this cycling vs. motorised transport BS is for everyone to follow the Highway Code to the letter. The rules are there to set expectations amongst all road users.

An application of common sense wouldn't go amiss either. Vehicles with trailers, big articulated lorries all square off corners. Drivers will know this when entering a roundabout alongside an artic where you need to take special care, and this should apply to cyclists too.
Of course, the simple answer for all this cycling vs. motorised transport BS is for everyone to follow the Highway Code to the letter. The rules are there to set expectations amongst all road users. An application of common sense wouldn't go amiss either. Vehicles with trailers, big articulated lorries all square off corners. Drivers will know this when entering a roundabout alongside an artic where you need to take special care, and this should apply to cyclists too. Plantpot

9:30am Fri 21 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

It's still annoying that the article is mentioning the cycle lane on The Drive when it has no relevance to the story.

Plus the article is all about cyclists behaving badly and doesn't mention the amount of vehicles behaving badly at this junction too; stopping in the cycle filter lane and the ACZ, parking on double yellow lines, and accelerating too fast.

The article itself seems quite anti-cyclist when the story could alternatively be about a near death by dangerous driving (if quotes from some the commenters on this and the previous story are accurate).

Argus, is there an agenda to stir up the cycle v car vitriol, an agenda to rubbish any Green-related activity in the city or am I just reading the article wrong?
It's still annoying that the article is mentioning the cycle lane on The Drive when it has no relevance to the story. Plus the article is all about cyclists behaving badly and doesn't mention the amount of vehicles behaving badly at this junction too; stopping in the cycle filter lane and the ACZ, parking on double yellow lines, and accelerating too fast. The article itself seems quite anti-cyclist when the story could alternatively be about a near death by dangerous driving (if quotes from some the commenters on this and the previous story are accurate). Argus, is there an agenda to stir up the cycle v car vitriol, an agenda to rubbish any Green-related activity in the city or am I just reading the article wrong? Fercri Sakes

9:45am Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

There are two publications that are widely misquoted, in order to serve the individuals prejudice IMHO:

The Highway Code and the Bible!
There are two publications that are widely misquoted, in order to serve the individuals prejudice IMHO: The Highway Code and the Bible! Old Ladys Gin

11:21am Fri 21 Sep 12

mickeyflick says...

Maxwell's Ghost says...
7:32pm Thu 20 Sep 12

So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't.
I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign.
And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy.

if you read my comment properly, all cyclists that break the law should be fined, and as for (doing something naughty on a cycle) as you put it, not so funny when you get knocked off for jumping red lights, cutting cars up, cycling on pavements, so if anyone shouldn't be in charge of a buggy, it's you,,,,,,,
Maxwell's Ghost says... 7:32pm Thu 20 Sep 12 So the lorry driver above think it fair that cyclists who have driving licences would get points on their licences for doing something naughty on a bike but those without wouldn't. I am not sure any Government would allow a law like that. You may as well say British lorry drivers who don't follow the law should be banned from the road but foreign lorry drivers should only pay a fine as they are foreign. And you are in charge of a lorry. I wouldn't leave you in charge of a baby buggy. if you read my comment properly, all cyclists that break the law should be fined, and as for (doing something naughty on a cycle) as you put it, not so funny when you get knocked off for jumping red lights, cutting cars up, cycling on pavements, so if anyone shouldn't be in charge of a buggy, it's you,,,,,,, mickeyflick

11:39am Fri 21 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill.

I always drive within speed limits
I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers
I always give way to buses
I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday
I always park legally
I always signal when turning or stopping
I always turn right, back-to-back
I always wear a seatbelt
I never reverse into a main road
I never drink and drive
I never carry unsafe loads
I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them
I never get out of my car when parked in traffic
I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front
I never block a yellow junction box
I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear
I never drive when tired
When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in
I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads
I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know.[/p][/quote]I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill. I always drive within speed limits I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers I always give way to buses I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday I always park legally I always signal when turning or stopping I always turn right, back-to-back I always wear a seatbelt I never reverse into a main road I never drink and drive I never carry unsafe loads I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them I never get out of my car when parked in traffic I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front I never block a yellow junction box I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear I never drive when tired When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on Poccypoc

12:02pm Fri 21 Sep 12

livefastsi says...

Has the Argus established that the cyclist went through a red light? If not why the randomly collected quotes on the subject?

Could quite easily have collected quotes on motorists turning left without indicating or looking in blind spots, which I'm sure everybody on here has seen examples of? I could definitley have provided a quote and it would have been just as relevant ?
Has the Argus established that the cyclist went through a red light? If not why the randomly collected quotes on the subject? Could quite easily have collected quotes on motorists turning left without indicating or looking in blind spots, which I'm sure everybody on here has seen examples of? I could definitley have provided a quote and it would have been just as relevant ? livefastsi

12:12pm Fri 21 Sep 12

livefastsi says...

@ Poppycock- brilliant list. Everybody should take heed and try to aspire to that level.(Do you still use hand signals to indicate stopping?)

Still doesn't quite explain the level of pettiness that makes you want to block off cyclists from moving through sitting traffic though. Whether they get through or not doesn't slow you down.

And, if all those pesky 'blighters' weren't on bikes you would be waiting longer due to all the extra cars. Then who would you resent for getting ahead of you?
@ Poppycock- brilliant list. Everybody should take heed and try to aspire to that level.(Do you still use hand signals to indicate stopping?) Still doesn't quite explain the level of pettiness that makes you want to block off cyclists from moving through sitting traffic though. Whether they get through or not doesn't slow you down. And, if all those pesky 'blighters' weren't on bikes you would be waiting longer due to all the extra cars. Then who would you resent for getting ahead of you? livefastsi

1:53pm Fri 21 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

livefastsi wrote:
@ Poppycock- brilliant list. Everybody should take heed and try to aspire to that level.(Do you still use hand signals to indicate stopping?)

Still doesn't quite explain the level of pettiness that makes you want to block off cyclists from moving through sitting traffic though. Whether they get through or not doesn't slow you down.

And, if all those pesky 'blighters' weren't on bikes you would be waiting longer due to all the extra cars. Then who would you resent for getting ahead of you?
LiveNasti - I just try to do it when I get the chance. I don't always succeed and sometimes even choose NOT to do it. If the cyclist looks a bit of a scallywag, then I might try. However, if the person is behaving like a responsible cyclist, I don't.
[quote][p][bold]livefastsi[/bold] wrote: @ Poppycock- brilliant list. Everybody should take heed and try to aspire to that level.(Do you still use hand signals to indicate stopping?) Still doesn't quite explain the level of pettiness that makes you want to block off cyclists from moving through sitting traffic though. Whether they get through or not doesn't slow you down. And, if all those pesky 'blighters' weren't on bikes you would be waiting longer due to all the extra cars. Then who would you resent for getting ahead of you?[/p][/quote]LiveNasti [sic] - I just try to do it when I get the chance. I don't always succeed and sometimes even choose NOT to do it. If the cyclist looks a bit of a scallywag, then I might try. However, if the person is behaving like a responsible cyclist, I don't. Poccypoc

2:13pm Fri 21 Sep 12

Tedious Pedant says...

Russ9294 wrote:
I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law.
Blame the owners, not the cycles.
[quote][p][bold]Russ9294[/bold] wrote: I ride a bike around Brighton we not not have the right of way I drive a bus to so I seeI both sides most cycles think red or green lights you do not have to stop ,overtaking on the in side of a lorry or bus is not safe get the police to stop and fine cycles that break the law.[/p][/quote]Blame the owners, not the cycles. Tedious Pedant

3:09pm Fri 21 Sep 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill.

I always drive within speed limits
I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers
I always give way to buses
I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday
I always park legally
I always signal when turning or stopping
I always turn right, back-to-back
I always wear a seatbelt
I never reverse into a main road
I never drink and drive
I never carry unsafe loads
I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them
I never get out of my car when parked in traffic
I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front
I never block a yellow junction box
I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear
I never drive when tired
When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in
I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads
I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on
That does not answer the question which was a simple one.
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know.[/p][/quote]I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill. I always drive within speed limits I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers I always give way to buses I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday I always park legally I always signal when turning or stopping I always turn right, back-to-back I always wear a seatbelt I never reverse into a main road I never drink and drive I never carry unsafe loads I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them I never get out of my car when parked in traffic I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front I never block a yellow junction box I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear I never drive when tired When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on[/p][/quote]That does not answer the question which was a simple one. Old Ladys Gin

6:43pm Fri 21 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill.

I always drive within speed limits
I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers
I always give way to buses
I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday
I always park legally
I always signal when turning or stopping
I always turn right, back-to-back
I always wear a seatbelt
I never reverse into a main road
I never drink and drive
I never carry unsafe loads
I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them
I never get out of my car when parked in traffic
I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front
I never block a yellow junction box
I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear
I never drive when tired
When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in
I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads
I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on
That does not answer the question which was a simple one.
Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am.

Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove.

Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going.
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know.[/p][/quote]I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill. I always drive within speed limits I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers I always give way to buses I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday I always park legally I always signal when turning or stopping I always turn right, back-to-back I always wear a seatbelt I never reverse into a main road I never drink and drive I never carry unsafe loads I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them I never get out of my car when parked in traffic I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front I never block a yellow junction box I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear I never drive when tired When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on[/p][/quote]That does not answer the question which was a simple one.[/p][/quote]Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am. Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove. Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going. Poccypoc

6:44pm Fri 21 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

Sorry, "write." Typo.
Sorry, "write." Typo. Poccypoc

7:11pm Fri 21 Sep 12

DougM says...

Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill.

I always drive within speed limits
I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers
I always give way to buses
I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday
I always park legally
I always signal when turning or stopping
I always turn right, back-to-back
I always wear a seatbelt
I never reverse into a main road
I never drink and drive
I never carry unsafe loads
I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them
I never get out of my car when parked in traffic
I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front
I never block a yellow junction box
I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear
I never drive when tired
When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in
I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads
I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on
That does not answer the question which was a simple one.
Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am.

Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove.

Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going.
Big deal. I've driven to work and cycled to work this week and can assure you that I've seen a minimum of 15 cars jump red lights during that time.
What's your point?
[quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know.[/p][/quote]I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill. I always drive within speed limits I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers I always give way to buses I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday I always park legally I always signal when turning or stopping I always turn right, back-to-back I always wear a seatbelt I never reverse into a main road I never drink and drive I never carry unsafe loads I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them I never get out of my car when parked in traffic I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front I never block a yellow junction box I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear I never drive when tired When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on[/p][/quote]That does not answer the question which was a simple one.[/p][/quote]Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am. Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove. Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going.[/p][/quote]Big deal. I've driven to work and cycled to work this week and can assure you that I've seen a minimum of 15 cars jump red lights during that time. What's your point? DougM

1:06am Sat 22 Sep 12

Poccypoc says...

DougM wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
graham_Seagull wrote:
Poccypoc wrote:
Two points of order and a substantive point.

First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken.

Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground.

Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else.

Put your bloody helmets on, too!
so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.
No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.
That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above.
It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing.

I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you
It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light.

I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.
What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver.
These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties.
I'd be interested to know.
I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill.

I always drive within speed limits
I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers
I always give way to buses
I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday
I always park legally
I always signal when turning or stopping
I always turn right, back-to-back
I always wear a seatbelt
I never reverse into a main road
I never drink and drive
I never carry unsafe loads
I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them
I never get out of my car when parked in traffic
I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front
I never block a yellow junction box
I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear
I never drive when tired
When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in
I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads
I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on
That does not answer the question which was a simple one.
Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am.

Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove.

Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going.
Big deal. I've driven to work and cycled to work this week and can assure you that I've seen a minimum of 15 cars jump red lights during that time.
What's your point?
Yes, I see cars jump red lights, usually on an amber, AND saw a vehicle jump the Portslade leve crossing, as I said on here earlier. Read the accusations.
[quote][p][bold]DougM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]graham_Seagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poccypoc[/bold] wrote: Two points of order and a substantive point. First, Argus, Grand Parade is in Brighton, so you must mean the air ambulance landed in Grand AVENUE, to the south of where the photo was taken. Second, only buildings have floors. Outside of buildings, the surface is called the ground. Re cyclists, so many of the blighters go through red lights and sneak up on your nearside. If I see a cyclist behind me approaching lights, I make sure I am as tight to the kerb as I can be so they have to wait in line behind me like everyone else. Put your bloody helmets on, too![/p][/quote]so in other words you're taking your eyes off the road in front of you so that you can concentrate on 'cutting up' a cyclist.....well done, I'm so happy for you.[/p][/quote]No, no, no, Graham_Seagull.... I mean if I see a cyclist 30 or 40 yards behind me, I THEN try to get as a close to the kerb at the lights as I can. I would never do anything to harm them.[/p][/quote]That's just plain silly on all counts. Apart from is being completely unneighbourly, it's possibly also illegal as the other guys have pointed out above. It's also going to harden attitudes between cyclists and motorists as there's little doubt the cyclist you're intentionally blocking will notice what you're doing. I'd suggest thinking again about what you're up to...it's simply better to concentrate on the road space around you[/p][/quote]It is not illegal as I never block a cycle lane. I am an excellent driver as I am a cyclist. I just get tired at how some cyclists treat the road. Take this woman outside Tesco - didn't even look left to see if cars would be in her way - she just freewheeled over the crossing and through the red light. I would wait half an hour for the lights to changes - you know how when some traffic lights fail. I'm not going anywhere.[/p][/quote]What tests and examinations have you taken to know that you are an excellent driver. These tests and examinations would be the only way of knowing as your driving would have been judged by competent third parties. I'd be interested to know.[/p][/quote]I make the odd mistake like any driver, but I am generally of very good and considerate skill. I always drive within speed limits I am always respectful of other drivers, and learner drivers I always give way to buses I never rush through a level crossing as it is about to close - saw that happen in Portslade yesterday I always park legally I always signal when turning or stopping I always turn right, back-to-back I always wear a seatbelt I never reverse into a main road I never drink and drive I never carry unsafe loads I always give horses a wide berth and driver very slowly past them I never get out of my car when parked in traffic I always leave enough space between me and the vehicle in front I never block a yellow junction box I always keep two hands on the wheel except when changing gear I never drive when tired When crossing a roundabout, I always stay in the lane I am in I never overtake on the brow of a hill. In fact, I rarely overtake on single-carriage roads I'm suire my driving has more attributes, but that's enough with which to be getting on[/p][/quote]That does not answer the question which was a simple one.[/p][/quote]Listen, I am not going to wrote in a newspaper that I am a good driver if I'm not. I'm hopeless at DIY, I can't make very good pies, I am only very average at gardening. However, I am a good driver. I know I am. Just today, Friday 21 September 2012, I saw another cyclist go through a red light in Hove. Driving south along Sackville Road, pulling up at the Portland Road lights, I saw two cyclists behind me. The first one pulled up at the lights, but the second one, rode past me, past the other cyclist and through the red light. I pumped him, he looked back as he crossed the open road, but he kept going.[/p][/quote]Big deal. I've driven to work and cycled to work this week and can assure you that I've seen a minimum of 15 cars jump red lights during that time. What's your point?[/p][/quote]Yes, I see cars jump red lights, usually on an amber, AND saw a vehicle jump the Portslade leve crossing, as I said on here earlier. Read the accusations. Poccypoc

10:03am Sat 22 Sep 12

Ihopenoonehasthisusername says...

HJarrs wrote:
What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc.

I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.
Do you drive a large vehicle? If you do you will know the stupid things cyclist do around you. You'd think common sense would be a cyclists biggest defence to other road users. Proximity sensors are useless if the cyclist doesn't obey the rules.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc. I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.[/p][/quote]Do you drive a large vehicle? If you do you will know the stupid things cyclist do around you. You'd think common sense would be a cyclists biggest defence to other road users. Proximity sensors are useless if the cyclist doesn't obey the rules. Ihopenoonehasthisusername

10:51am Sat 22 Sep 12

Ihopenoonehasthisusername says...

BiggerH wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc.

I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.
exactly - nowadays, it seems acceptable that as long as a lorry has a sticker on the back saying 'if you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you' eveything is ok
if a lorry driver can't see what's going on behind (with or without mirrors) then it shouldn't be on the road.

as someone above says 'If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers?'. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
Car/van drivers preach on about all the accidents occuring due to cyclists going through red lights, but in reality what they really mean is 'I'm annoyed/jealous that I can't go through red lights like the cyclists' and that is what creates this animosity
Of course a lorry can't see what's directly behind them. How do you suggest this is made possible?

I spend many hours on the road driving a large vehicle and really most cyclists need to take more responsibility for themselves. As a regular cyclist I well know this. Most of the near misses I see on a daily bases are the fault of the cyclist.
[quote][p][bold]BiggerH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: What I find difficult to understand is why large vehicles, any vehicles for that matter, are allowed to have blind spots. Proximity sensors and camera are cheap as chips and systems could be easily and cheaply fitted to commercial vehicles to give the driver a warning to avoid collisions. This would save many lives of pedestrians and cyclists and reduce vehicle damage through hitting bollards etc. I agree that the cycle lane has no relevance and is there just to stir it up as usual.[/p][/quote]exactly - nowadays, it seems acceptable that as long as a lorry has a sticker on the back saying 'if you can't see my mirrors, then I can't see you' eveything is ok if a lorry driver can't see what's going on behind (with or without mirrors) then it shouldn't be on the road. as someone above says 'If cyclists don't observe red lights, why should drivers?'. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Car/van drivers preach on about all the accidents occuring due to cyclists going through red lights, but in reality what they really mean is 'I'm annoyed/jealous that I can't go through red lights like the cyclists' and that is what creates this animosity[/p][/quote]Of course a lorry can't see what's directly behind them. How do you suggest this is made possible? I spend many hours on the road driving a large vehicle and really most cyclists need to take more responsibility for themselves. As a regular cyclist I well know this. Most of the near misses I see on a daily bases are the fault of the cyclist. Ihopenoonehasthisusername

10:57am Sat 22 Sep 12

Ihopenoonehasthisusername says...

DougM wrote:
ruberducker wrote:
im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i


f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus
You're a bit dim aren't you?
Er....explain...or are you not able?
[quote][p][bold]DougM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ruberducker[/bold] wrote: im sorry but until there are laws to fine bike riders i will not consider them as road users- as a road user who like me have lights, helmets,insurance..i f you are so thick in the head to argue with tons of metal even at small speeds you will be hurt,if you jump light--no excuses you will be hurt your fault no exeptions.use the bike lane on the prom no cars,no accidents,this town has spent shed loads of cash with a up yours approach to the car driver in favour of the tree huging brigade,who moan about "one of there own"being hurt--what about the driver,who pays money to be there?is it fair that dammage is done to bodywork,who's paying the insurance for repairs?and now you idiots are can share the road with taxi's and busses with camaras fitted recording all the time.and there will be"evidence"so take a test,obey the rules,get lights and been seen at night,have insurance,if not dont get on the road--take a taxi or bus[/p][/quote]You're a bit dim aren't you?[/p][/quote]Er....explain...or are you not able? Ihopenoonehasthisusername

1:46pm Sat 22 Sep 12

FatherTed11 says...

Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems.
Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems. FatherTed11

1:50pm Sat 22 Sep 12

DougM says...

FatherTed11 wrote:
Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems.
Have you considered the possibility that some, possibly most, already do own a car?
Is that something you are capable of dealing with on an intellectual level?
[quote][p][bold]FatherTed11[/bold] wrote: Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems.[/p][/quote]Have you considered the possibility that some, possibly most, already do own a car? Is that something you are capable of dealing with on an intellectual level? DougM

7:21pm Sat 22 Sep 12

MrHove says...

Do we know if the above cyclist is ok?

Some of the above comments are quite sad, when you put humans in charge of big machines (cars, vans etc) then of course there is always going to be an element of human error which is natural. I myself am a keen cyclist and I do not understand why bikes and cars cannot share the roads without all of the immature comments above - yes come cyclists are stupid and do stupid things, but so do people driving cars and vans etc so it really is a pointless argument.
Do we know if the above cyclist is ok? Some of the above comments are quite sad, when you put humans in charge of big machines (cars, vans etc) then of course there is always going to be an element of human error which is natural. I myself am a keen cyclist and I do not understand why bikes and cars cannot share the roads without all of the immature comments above - yes come cyclists are stupid and do stupid things, but so do people driving cars and vans etc so it really is a pointless argument. MrHove

9:55pm Sat 22 Sep 12

FatherTed11 says...

DougM wrote:
FatherTed11 wrote:
Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems.
Have you considered the possibility that some, possibly most, already do own a car?
Is that something you are capable of dealing with on an intellectual level?
Yes I considered it and I wish these cyclists would consider using their cars if they have them.

There - I delt with it 'on an intellectual level'.
[quote][p][bold]DougM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FatherTed11[/bold] wrote: Wow so much hate towards motorists by cyclists on here. Just get a car like the rest of us then we wouldn't have these problems.[/p][/quote]Have you considered the possibility that some, possibly most, already do own a car? Is that something you are capable of dealing with on an intellectual level?[/p][/quote]Yes I considered it and I wish these cyclists would consider using their cars if they have them. There - I delt with it 'on an intellectual level'. FatherTed11

8:38am Sun 23 Sep 12

sussexguy says...

As a motorist and a pedestrian I am aware of some really terrible behaviour from other motorists and cyclists every day. Many lorry drivers (and for some peculiar reason, drivers of white vans) are so determined to go beyond the speed limit that they will intimidate anyone who gets in their way. More than once I have had a terrifying experience of being followed closely by one of them, deliberately causing me to go faster and faster myself - thus breaking the law, so as not to get hit by them. Every day I see motorists causing dangerous situations with their selfish driving and parking. However, with the preponderance of cyclists now on our roads (and pavements) there is equally bad behaviour coming from them. I am not surprised that there are so many accidents around the country. All road users (and pedestrians) need to be on guard all the time. It is no playground and we all need to take care. Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists. Unfortunately these habits seem to have become the norm now, and are a common everyday sight. Until there is a clampdown by the police, this will only get worse.
As a motorist and a pedestrian I am aware of some really terrible behaviour from other motorists and cyclists every day. Many lorry drivers (and for some peculiar reason, drivers of white vans) are so determined to go beyond the speed limit that they will intimidate anyone who gets in their way. More than once I have had a terrifying experience of being followed closely by one of them, deliberately causing me to go faster and faster myself - thus breaking the law, so as not to get hit by them. Every day I see motorists causing dangerous situations with their selfish driving and parking. However, with the preponderance of cyclists now on our roads (and pavements) there is equally bad behaviour coming from them. I am not surprised that there are so many accidents around the country. All road users (and pedestrians) need to be on guard all the time. It is no playground and we all need to take care. Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists. Unfortunately these habits seem to have become the norm now, and are a common everyday sight. Until there is a clampdown by the police, this will only get worse. sussexguy

10:44am Mon 24 Sep 12

livefastsi says...

@ Sussex guy- ' Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists' - equally to blame for what? in this particular case or in accidents more generally?

And do you really believe cyclists going through a red light or riding on the pavement cause as much harm as bad /indifferent/ selfish / wreckless / drunk or whatever other excuse for careless driving?
@ Sussex guy- ' Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists' - equally to blame for what? in this particular case or in accidents more generally? And do you really believe cyclists going through a red light or riding on the pavement cause as much harm as bad /indifferent/ selfish / wreckless / drunk or whatever other excuse for careless driving? livefastsi

12:26pm Mon 24 Sep 12

FatherTed11 says...

livefastsi wrote:
@ Sussex guy- ' Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists' - equally to blame for what? in this particular case or in accidents more generally?

And do you really believe cyclists going through a red light or riding on the pavement cause as much harm as bad /indifferent/ selfish / wreckless / drunk or whatever other excuse for careless driving?
So a cyclist going through a red light is ok, even though it can cause accidents involving cars and pedestrians?
[quote][p][bold]livefastsi[/bold] wrote: @ Sussex guy- ' Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists' - equally to blame for what? in this particular case or in accidents more generally? And do you really believe cyclists going through a red light or riding on the pavement cause as much harm as bad /indifferent/ selfish / wreckless / drunk or whatever other excuse for careless driving?[/p][/quote]So a cyclist going through a red light is ok, even though it can cause accidents involving cars and pedestrians? FatherTed11

2:06pm Mon 24 Sep 12

livefastsi says...

@ Father Ted- At what point did I suggest it was ok? And how would my belief either way have changed the point I raised?

On balance, I don’t think it is ‘ok’. But:
- it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being ‘careless’ behind the wheel of a 1 or 2 tonne motorised metal box near other road users.

- the issue of red lights/pavements does appear a complete diversion in any discussion about cycling/cycle paths/road use/road design etc, and that this fosters an unhelpful Us vs. Them attitude amongst some motorists.

I made the comment above because I consider the proposition 'motorists and cyclists are equally to blame' quote to be completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous. Motorists do cause far more damage far more often (to pedestrians / cyclists / even shop fronts), and therefore there is an obligation for motorists to be more aware and considerate of more vulnerable road users, especially around junctions. This is also why they need more insurance, training and restrictions than any other road user.
@ Father Ted- At what point did I suggest it was ok? And how would my belief either way have changed the point I raised? On balance, I don’t think it is ‘ok’. But: - it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being ‘careless’ behind the wheel of a 1 or 2 tonne motorised metal box near other road users. - the issue of red lights/pavements does appear a complete diversion in any discussion about cycling/cycle paths/road use/road design etc, and that this fosters an unhelpful Us vs. Them attitude amongst some motorists. I made the comment above because I consider the proposition 'motorists and cyclists are equally to blame' quote to be completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous. Motorists do cause far more damage far more often (to pedestrians / cyclists / even shop fronts), and therefore there is an obligation for motorists to be more aware and considerate of more vulnerable road users, especially around junctions. This is also why they need more insurance, training and restrictions than any other road user. livefastsi

4:52pm Mon 24 Sep 12

Purple55 says...

@livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws.

And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children.

On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists!

A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not.

IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules.

However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!?

The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.)

P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others.
@livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws. And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children. On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists! A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not. IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules. However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!? The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.) P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others. Purple55

4:52pm Mon 24 Sep 12

Purple55 says...

@livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws.

And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children.

On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists!

A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not.

IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules.

However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!?

The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.)

P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others.
@livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws. And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children. On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists! A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not. IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules. However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!? The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.) P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others. Purple55

8:00pm Mon 24 Sep 12

Fercri Sakes says...

Purple55 wrote:
@livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws.

And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children.

On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists!

A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not.

IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules.

However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!?

The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.)

P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others.
Ha, you're bonkers!! Was your evil stepdad a bike? That's pretty TL;DR but I'll take a quick look.

If you're going to go into that much detail about how dangerous bikes are how many words would you need to write about how dangerous cars are? 800 pages I reckon.

So you saw an accident caused by a cyclist! I saw a car accident caused by a pedestrian once, we should make them all get licenses and insurance before they can leave the house.



Ha ha, you are bonkers! Do you think they're all out to get you? It must take you days to cross the road with all those cars.

You Sir need to get out more. But mind those bikes!!

What a laugh.
[quote][p][bold]Purple55[/bold] wrote: @livefastsi: I saw an accident occur that was 100% created by a cyclist who ignored a red light. He pulled out of a side road that was traffic-light controlled, onto a main road directly into the path of an oncoming juggernaut. The juggernaut driver reacted automatically, swerving to avoid said cyclist. To save this 1 life, he ploughed into/over a car on opposite side of road. A car with 1 adult and 5 children… it took 5hrs to separate car from juggernaut, with loss of all lives in the car. The cyclist lived. The juggernaut driver also survived but was left with the terrible memory/guilt of having taken 6 lives, although he was totally exonerated and all blame put at the feet of the cretin on 2-wheels ignoring basic road laws. And you say "it is nowhere near as bad or dangerous as being 'careless' behind the wheel of a 1/2 tonne motorised metal box…" Explain that to the family who lost a father and 5 of their beloved children. On a lesser note injury-wise, I've also seen, and experienced myself, cyclists careening off the road onto the pavement sending pedestrians flying. Those of us quick on our feet have a split second to move, whereas the elderly don't have a hope in hell. A fall for them can be especially nasty; 1 lady I know broke her hip through one of these cyclist-created falls. Gone are the days when we could have a leisurely, relaxed stroll as we have to be on constant alert for these pavement cyclists. A side-issue of this is we have no way of identifying cyclists involved in incidents, hence many go unreported, so we can only swap 'cycling' stories rather than quote correct statistics. This has lead to crooked stats as cars are easily identifiable, so naturally there are far more incidents involving them. We don't have a clue of the true number involving cyclists! A personal irritation is when these double-standard folks cut right up behind a pedestrian, similar to a car tailgating, forcing them to move aside. Or when on fairly open pavement they cycle at full speed skimming very close to walkers. I had the temerity a few weeks ago to stop walking in a straight line and veer to my right to view Pavilion Gardens closer. I wear music headphones, so did look to my right before veering off but did not see nor hear anything… until a cyclist collided with me. He came off, got right back up and gave me a load of verbal abuse whilst I was picking myself up: Him: "should have watched where you were going *expletive expletive expletive*" etc. Me: "Err, excuse me, this is the *expletive* pavement, I should only need to 'watch out' for fellow pedestrians travelling at walking speed not *expletive* bikes." The rest of the argument can be guessed… Point is motorists have a legal braking distance, pedestrians have it inbuilt (we don't wish to walk nose-to-head with our fellow pedestrians, simple!), whereas cyclists have neither which makes them dangerous to all other traffic, motorised or not. IMO, drivers and cyclists are equally as dangerous; whether they are motorised is a moot point, it's NOT following basic road laws that's the problem. Motorists can't legally drive without taking lessons and passing a test that, in essence, is saying they're safe to be on the roads. Whereas for cyclists there is nothing, so they cycle around following their own non-existent rules/wishes. If they want to use the road with motorists and be treated with the same respect, they should follow the same rules. However, many Brighton cyclists seem to think this whole town is a park where they have priority right-of-way over everything, and they can behave as irresponsible children, inasmuch no safety gear nor road sense. And we're all meant to look after/out for them. Who made them so special?!? The simplest way of dealing with all this is to have cyclists licensed, made to carry out 'cycle license test/highway code' similar to motorists; make it statutory that all cyclists wear hi-vis strip and helmet, along with rear/front lights to their cycles. This would definitely save lives. We need cycle laws now for the safety of everyone including themselves. (I am surprised our Gov. hasn't jumped on this already as could be a 'nice littler earner' with the high volume of cyclists around nowadays, a 'little earner' that we'd actually agree with and might even help pay for those pesky cycle lanes.) P.S. This is not directed at all cyclists, merely the ones that have complete disregard for others.[/p][/quote]Ha, you're bonkers!! Was your evil stepdad a bike? That's pretty TL;DR but I'll take a quick look. If you're going to go into that much detail about how dangerous bikes are how many words would you need to write about how dangerous cars are? 800 pages I reckon. So you saw an accident caused by a cyclist! I saw a car accident caused by a pedestrian once, we should make them all get licenses and insurance before they can leave the house. Ha ha, you are bonkers! Do you think they're all out to get you? It must take you days to cross the road with all those cars. You Sir need to get out more. But mind those bikes!! What a laugh. Fercri Sakes

10:23pm Mon 24 Sep 12

ghost bus driver says...

sussexguy wrote:
As a motorist and a pedestrian I am aware of some really terrible behaviour from other motorists and cyclists every day. Many lorry drivers (and for some peculiar reason, drivers of white vans) are so determined to go beyond the speed limit that they will intimidate anyone who gets in their way. More than once I have had a terrifying experience of being followed closely by one of them, deliberately causing me to go faster and faster myself - thus breaking the law, so as not to get hit by them. Every day I see motorists causing dangerous situations with their selfish driving and parking. However, with the preponderance of cyclists now on our roads (and pavements) there is equally bad behaviour coming from them. I am not surprised that there are so many accidents around the country. All road users (and pedestrians) need to be on guard all the time. It is no playground and we all need to take care. Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists. Unfortunately these habits seem to have become the norm now, and are a common everyday sight. Until there is a clampdown by the police, this will only get worse.
You might find this interesting.

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2159522/Drivers-face
-90-spot-fine-points
-wrong-lane-tailgati
ng.html
[quote][p][bold]sussexguy[/bold] wrote: As a motorist and a pedestrian I am aware of some really terrible behaviour from other motorists and cyclists every day. Many lorry drivers (and for some peculiar reason, drivers of white vans) are so determined to go beyond the speed limit that they will intimidate anyone who gets in their way. More than once I have had a terrifying experience of being followed closely by one of them, deliberately causing me to go faster and faster myself - thus breaking the law, so as not to get hit by them. Every day I see motorists causing dangerous situations with their selfish driving and parking. However, with the preponderance of cyclists now on our roads (and pavements) there is equally bad behaviour coming from them. I am not surprised that there are so many accidents around the country. All road users (and pedestrians) need to be on guard all the time. It is no playground and we all need to take care. Cyclists riding through red lights and on pavements are equally to blame as careless motorists. Unfortunately these habits seem to have become the norm now, and are a common everyday sight. Until there is a clampdown by the police, this will only get worse.[/p][/quote]You might find this interesting. http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2159522/Drivers-face -90-spot-fine-points -wrong-lane-tailgati ng.html ghost bus driver

3:04pm Tue 25 Sep 12

andros says...

hello anyone ... do you have news about the guy? thank you
hello anyone ... do you have news about the guy? thank you andros

1:12pm Thu 27 Sep 12

Perseus says...

Motor vehicles, mostly cars, vans, trucks and buses driving on pavements I find to be a nuisance and cars mostly jumping red lights are very dangerous. The first I see several times every day and the latter at least once a week, probably more.
Motor vehicles, mostly cars, vans, trucks and buses driving on pavements I find to be a nuisance and cars mostly jumping red lights are very dangerous. The first I see several times every day and the latter at least once a week, probably more. Perseus

2:41pm Thu 18 Oct 12

Andrew_N_Hove says...

found out from a friend who knows the cyclist injured that he actually survived, which i find amazing considering the damage i saw inflicted by the lorry. i assume it will be a long recovery, and wish him all the best.
found out from a friend who knows the cyclist injured that he actually survived, which i find amazing considering the damage i saw inflicted by the lorry. i assume it will be a long recovery, and wish him all the best. Andrew_N_Hove

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