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Could Sussex constituency changes see Lucas and Baker lose their seats? (From The Argus)
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Could Sussex constituency changes see Lucas and Baker lose their seats?
9:53am Wednesday 17th October 2012 in News By Bill Gardner
Two Sussex MPs could be forced to look for a new job after the next election if radical plans to redraw constituency boundaries come into force.
Yesterday the Boundary Commission announced a planned shake-up that could decisively change the county’s political landscape.
The proposals put both Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas and Lewes MP Norman Baker at risk of losing their seats in Westminster.
If the new boundaries had been in place before the last election in 2010, both would have been defeated.
As part of a raft of changes the Boundary Commission has suggested a coastal Brighton East and Seahaven ward should be created that would include Brighton Kemptown and most of the Newhaven and Seaford wards from the Liberal Democrat Lewes constituency.
In the heart of Brighton and Hove, Regency ward, currently a Green stronghold in Brighton Pavilion, would be moved to the neighbouring Hove constituency.
Moulsecoomb and Bevendean wards - currently Labour areas in Brighton Kemptown - would be added to Brighton Pavilion, heaping more pressure on the country’s only Green MP.
If the suggested boundaries had been in place before the last election, Ms Lucas would have lost Brighton Pavilion to Labour’s candidate, Nancy Platts.
Labour would have polled 17 more votes than the Greens, UKIP, all the minor parties and independent candidates combined.
Ms Lucas described the plans as “absurd” and accused the Boundary Commission of trying to “divide up the heart of the city”.
She said: “These proposed changes simply don’t reflect the distinctive communities and neighbourhoods like Regency, which has always been considered the centre of Brighton rather than Hove.
“I’ve already been contacted by constituents who are appalled by these plans – constituency boundaries should reflect the communities that MPs represent, rather than just points on a map drawn in Whitehall to meet quotas of voters.
“In terms of what this means for a likely 2015 election, we obviously need to wait and see – I’m proud of my record as a local MP and the Greens have shown that we have strong and growing support across the whole of Brighton and Hove.”
Uncertainty remains about when the changes will actually happen. In Westminster, the Lib Dems want them delayed until after the election and Labour wants them scrapped.
But the plans are supported by Brighton Kemptown MP Simon Kirby, whose new constituency would include parts of Newhaven and Seaford but would be stripped of the Labour-leaning Moulsecoomb and Bevendean wards.
He said: “I welcome the commission’s proposal for a Brighton East and Seahaven constituency.
There are clear social and economic ties between the areas incorporated.
“Having lived in this area for most of my life I know Newhaven and Seaford very well, and it would be an honour for me to represent them.”
Under the changes, Lewes would fall into a new Lewes and Uckfield constituency which would take in the rural north of Newhaven.
Lewes MP Norman Baker would lose the Lib Dem strongholds of Seaford and the centre of Newhaven and would take on Uckfield, where four of five wards voted Tory in the 2010 election.
If the boundaries had been in place before the last election, Mr Baker would have lost to the Conservatives by more than 3500 votes.
Last night he insisted his party would block the changes after their coalition partners scuppered reform of the House of Lords earlier this year.
He said: “The Tories didn’t stick to their side of the bargain so they must now pay the penalty.
“Even if these plans do somehow happen, I think the seat would be very winnable.
“Uckfield has a long history of electing Liberal Democrat councillors, so you mustn’t just look at one election.”
Mr Baker also accused the commission of failing to recognise the “historical link” between Seaford, Newhaven and Lewes.
He said: “I do not believe that Seaford residents will be happy being stuck at the far end of a Brighton constituency while Newhaven residents will have their town cut in half.
“The commission has swapped one set of bad proposals for another.”
But James Page, the Conservative leader of Lewes District Council, said it “made sense” for the coastal towns to be represented alongside Brighton Kemptown.
He said: “I think we have a lot in common with Brighton so this seems like a good idea.”
In its report, the Boundary Commission said: “Our proposed Hove and Brighton Pavilion constituencies are contained entirely within the unitary authority boundary, and better reflect the separate identity of Hove and the boundaries of the existing constituencies than do the initial proposals.
“Brighton East and Seahaven recognises the links that exist between Brighton and the towns along the coast to the east .
"It further recognises that this area is separated from the rest of East Sussex by the hills of the South Downs.
"We believe an extension from Brighton in this direction is preferable to the extension into Lewes proposed by the commission, and we accept the force of the many responses received by the commission objecting to its proposed Lewes and Brighton East constituency.”
As well as changes to Brighton and Lewes, a new Bexhill constituency would be made up of almost half of the existing Bexhill and Battle constituency and also include wards from the existing Wealden constituency.
There would be an entirely new constituency, called The Weald, which crosses the boundary between Kent and East Sussex.
The commission recommended that Barnham ward, currently in the Arundel and South Downs constituency, should be transferred to Bognor Regis and Littlehampton.
It suggested Plaistow ward in the Chichester constituency should be moved to Arundel and South Downs and said Copthorne and Worth ward should be moved from the Horsham constituency to Crawley.
The constituencies of Eastbourne, Hastings and Rye, Worthing East and Shoreham and Worthing West would remain unchanged.
Comments(80)
sbiscorrupt
says...
10:11am Wed 17 Oct 12
1. benefit the two major parties, and
2. crush any chance of independant representation.
Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
bruce_
says...
10:54am Wed 17 Oct 12
Tailgaters Anonymous
says...
12:07pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Government determined to meddle in aspects of life to deflect from their inadequacy with the core tasks!!
Fight_Back
says...
12:09pm Wed 17 Oct 12
sbiscorrupt wrote:I'm not sure that's a design of the new boundaries more a side affect. Principally the idea is to make seats have the same number of voters which surely is a good thing.
Irrespective of what you think about Lucas/Baker ( I happen to believe they are both quite useless ), boundary changes are designed to...
1. benefit the two major parties, and
2. crush any chance of independant representation.
Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
After Baker's fun and games over the new football stadium I'd be more than happy to see him lose is seat. I wouldn't be sad to see the back of Lucas either.
getThisCoalitionOut
says...
12:09pm Wed 17 Oct 12
spencer1973
says...
12:25pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Lucas will only go back to the EU pigs trough once she is kicked out of westminster anyway
cookie_brighton
says...
12:27pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Archie Bun
says...
12:28pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Plantpot
says...
12:41pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Fight_Back wrote:Baker stood up for principle over the stadium - and the planning regs as well. He's very popular in Lewes - the anti-stadium stance didn't hurt him or the Lib Dem's at all. He's also, by all accounts a very good constituency MP regardless of your political leanings.
sbiscorrupt wrote:I'm not sure that's a design of the new boundaries more a side affect. Principally the idea is to make seats have the same number of voters which surely is a good thing.
Irrespective of what you think about Lucas/Baker ( I happen to believe they are both quite useless ), boundary changes are designed to...
1. benefit the two major parties, and
2. crush any chance of independant representation.
Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
After Baker's fun and games over the new football stadium I'd be more than happy to see him lose is seat. I wouldn't be sad to see the back of Lucas either.
I'm not a Lib Dem BTW.
Lucas on the other hand will be lucky to retain her seat IF the Labour/Tory voters come out regardless of boundary changes.
Kate234
says...
12:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Stripes
says...
12:51pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Mr P Brown
says...
12:56pm Wed 17 Oct 12
fredaj
says...
12:57pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Mart
says...
1:04pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Fight_Back
says...
1:13pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Plantpot wrote:Pity his principles didn't extend to telling the truth.
Fight_Back wrote:Baker stood up for principle over the stadium - and the planning regs as well. He's very popular in Lewes - the anti-stadium stance didn't hurt him or the Lib Dem's at all. He's also, by all accounts a very good constituency MP regardless of your political leanings.
sbiscorrupt wrote:I'm not sure that's a design of the new boundaries more a side affect. Principally the idea is to make seats have the same number of voters which surely is a good thing.
Irrespective of what you think about Lucas/Baker ( I happen to believe they are both quite useless ), boundary changes are designed to...
1. benefit the two major parties, and
2. crush any chance of independant representation.
Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
After Baker's fun and games over the new football stadium I'd be more than happy to see him lose is seat. I wouldn't be sad to see the back of Lucas either.
I'm not a Lib Dem BTW.
Lucas on the other hand will be lucky to retain her seat IF the Labour/Tory voters come out regardless of boundary changes.
Hove Actually
says...
1:42pm Wed 17 Oct 12
sbiscorrupt wrote:"1 Person 1 Vote" is all we have ever had unless you have been fiddling a few postal votes........
Irrespective of what you think about Lucas/Baker ( I happen to believe they are both quite useless ), boundary changes are designed to... 1. benefit the two major parties, and 2. crush any chance of independant representation. Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
It's only the silly PR vote were you get second votes, third choices and the person elected was never anyones first choice
Poccypoc
says...
2:10pm Wed 17 Oct 12
The follow day, I saw a stupid cyclist go through TWO red lights on New Church Road - once by the Tesco store, folloowed by the crossing at the bottom of George Street. I tried to catch him - I did pump him - but because he went through two reds, he was off and away.
sbiscorrupt
says...
2:13pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Hove Actually wrote:The trouble is that we don't have an effective '1 person 1 vote' system in 'first past the post' ...
sbiscorrupt wrote:"1 Person 1 Vote" is all we have ever had unless you have been fiddling a few postal votes........
Irrespective of what you think about Lucas/Baker ( I happen to believe they are both quite useless ), boundary changes are designed to... 1. benefit the two major parties, and 2. crush any chance of independant representation. Until we get true PR - in other words 1 person 1 vote - the UK will just limp on in the same old stale way where the political class gains, and everyone else just has to hope they survive!
It's only the silly PR vote were you get second votes, third choices and the person elected was never anyones first choice
Only about 80 seats will count next time around, and even less if the Scots do the right thing and vote for independance!
That's the main reason turnout is falling, as there is no point in voting in the majority of seats...
And the boundary changes will just make it worse!
MelsTels
says...
2:28pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Poccypoc
says...
2:42pm Wed 17 Oct 12
funkyyoyo
says...
2:46pm Wed 17 Oct 12
michael505
says...
3:17pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Charismatic Andrew
says...
3:20pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Firstly these proposals have been blocked by the Lib Dems because the Tories didn't keep their side of the coalition agreement on House of Lords reform.
Secondly it's ridiculous to say "If the new boundaries had been in place before the last election in 2010, both would have been defeated"..... it's impossible to predict what would have happened had these boundaries been in place. People wouldn't have necessarily voted the same way if they'd been in a different constituency with different candidates and different dynamics.
cookie_brighton
says...
3:30pm Wed 17 Oct 12
radish1871
says...
3:58pm Wed 17 Oct 12
He may be extraordinarily popular in his constituency in lewes but his appeal wanes once you get to the newhaven part of his constituency. His influence over the incinerator debacle, town (non) regeneration, his apathy towards the port and the town as a whole would suggest his iminent demise would be a good thing.
I would also suggest that once the incinerator he helped foist upon up starts belching smoke, soot and other detritus on the good folk of lewes his popularity will wane there too!
george smith
says...
4:28pm Wed 17 Oct 12
michael505 wrote:Generally true but he did put a lot of time into what happened to David Kelly, admittedly he probably made a lot of money from the book.
Make the changes now and get rid of that idiot Baker. I have never seen such a useless individual and now his seat is in danger he claims the rules have been changed. What a surprise.
Poccypoc
says...
6:53pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Sussex jim
says...
7:48pm Wed 17 Oct 12
The same goes for Miss Lucas; other than "green " projects, what has she achieved?
We can no longer afford these hobbiest politicians abusing the parliamentary process.
There are only two proper parties in this country. You are either on the left or the right. Vote Labour or Conservative next time around.
jarmonesque
says...
7:56pm Wed 17 Oct 12
spencer1973 wrote:I wish people would stop calling the Greens Communists, Uncle Joe Stalin loved Industry and particularly the Motorcar. The Greens are clearly Fascists.
I flippin hope so, Lucas and Baker are two of the most odious MP's in the House. Lucas especially, as she was only really voted in due to the student population , whom many dissapear once their studies are over, leaving the rest of us to deal with the communist Greens.
Lucas will only go back to the EU pigs trough once she is kicked out of westminster anyway
pjwilk
says...
8:17pm Wed 17 Oct 12
HJarrs
says...
8:58pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Sussex jim wrote:To see Caroline Lucas's achievements or any other MP's on a wide range of topics you can check out...
Mr. Baker may be a good hands-on local MP; but most of his claimed achievements (usually instigated by others) have been of little value.
The same goes for Miss Lucas; other than "green " projects, what has she achieved?
We can no longer afford these hobbiest politicians abusing the parliamentary process.
There are only two proper parties in this country. You are either on the left or the right. Vote Labour or Conservative next time around.
http://www.theyworkf
oryou.com/
Unlike some, I don't expect miracles from my politicians, but as a Green voter I am more than happy with my MPs performance.
And why exactly would you vote for either Labour or Conservatives, two parties that have consistently let the country down over the years. What did the Labour Party MP for Brighton Pavilion achieve of note? (voting for the Iraq war?) Both parties and laterly the Liberals signed up to financial laisse fair and deregulation that has led us to our parlous state. For example we have a housing crisis that the Labour Party scandelously allowed to develop, we have a Conservative Party in power that is ripping up the social fabric of the country, privitising schools, NHS etc and returning us to the 1930's. Both parties are effectively moribund. The Tories propped up by the City, who they represent, Labour by reluctant trade unions because they have nowhere else to go.
You should take some pride that many people in Brighton and Hove are of independant mind, are up for change and support and worked for their local grass roots Green Party.
Idontbelieveit1948
says...
9:06pm Wed 17 Oct 12
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
HJarrs
says...
9:15pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Yeah right, of course it is a Tory stitchup. If they truly cared about democracy they should be voting for PR.
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
gusset snatcher
says...
9:26pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Norman Baker is an idiot.
Caroline Lucas and the rest of the Greens have no grasp on reality.
How were they ever elected MP's? I partly blame the other's expenses fiddling and they carry on abusing it
juleshove
says...
9:28pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Idontbelieveit1948
says...
9:30pm Wed 17 Oct 12
HJarrs wrote:Doh, didn't we have a referendum on that, didn't we vote and didn't it get kicked out
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Yeah right, of course it is a Tory stitchup. If they truly cared about democracy they should be voting for PR.
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
juleshove
says...
9:33pm Wed 17 Oct 12
spencer1973 wrote:Totally agree. Lucas especially should never have got in. Makes me embarrassed to say i'm from Brighton.
I flippin hope so, Lucas and Baker are two of the most odious MP's in the House. Lucas especially, as she was only really voted in due to the student population , whom many dissapear once their studies are over, leaving the rest of us to deal with the communist Greens.
Lucas will only go back to the EU pigs trough once she is kicked out of westminster anyway
HJarrs
says...
9:38pm Wed 17 Oct 12
gusset snatcher wrote:Thats right why vote Green when, there is no climate change, resources are not running out, no need to challenge the economic system in any wayas it works so well , we don't want to be internationalist and outword looking, don't to be proggressive, don't want to extend democracy and accountability etc.
I doubt this will make much difference but a party I'd like to see coming through is UKIP as they will help to 1 Restore Self Government & Democracy 2 Rebuild Prosperity 3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country 4 Safeguards Against Crime 5 Care And Support For All 6 Our Way Of Life.
Norman Baker is an idiot.
Caroline Lucas and the rest of the Greens have no grasp on reality.
How were they ever elected MP's? I partly blame the other's expenses fiddling and they carry on abusing it
HJarrs
says...
9:42pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Doh! No, we had a vote on AV and as with any referendum it ended up being a vote about the Liberals v Labour v Conservatives than making the most meek and mild change to the voting system.
HJarrs wrote:Doh, didn't we have a referendum on that, didn't we vote and didn't it get kicked out
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Yeah right, of course it is a Tory stitchup. If they truly cared about democracy they should be voting for PR.
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
Idontbelieveit1948
says...
9:43pm Wed 17 Oct 12
HJarrs wrote:Oh dear, we are all such stick in the muds aren't we and just because we don't fancy hitching up with the communist Greens.
gusset snatcher wrote:Thats right why vote Green when, there is no climate change, resources are not running out, no need to challenge the economic system in any wayas it works so well , we don't want to be internationalist and outword looking, don't to be proggressive, don't want to extend democracy and accountability etc.
I doubt this will make much difference but a party I'd like to see coming through is UKIP as they will help to 1 Restore Self Government & Democracy 2 Rebuild Prosperity 3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country 4 Safeguards Against Crime 5 Care And Support For All 6 Our Way Of Life.
Norman Baker is an idiot.
Caroline Lucas and the rest of the Greens have no grasp on reality.
How were they ever elected MP's? I partly blame the other's expenses fiddling and they carry on abusing it
It may come as a surprise to you but many of do not like Lucas or her grubby little Green (although I personally think they are Brown) party
HJarrs
says...
9:44pm Wed 17 Oct 12
juleshove wrote:What childish comments. If the Greens only got in on the student vote then the seat looks safe! They are hardly going to vote for you Tories?
spencer1973 wrote:Totally agree. Lucas especially should never have got in. Makes me embarrassed to say i'm from Brighton.
I flippin hope so, Lucas and Baker are two of the most odious MP's in the House. Lucas especially, as she was only really voted in due to the student population , whom many dissapear once their studies are over, leaving the rest of us to deal with the communist Greens.
Lucas will only go back to the EU pigs trough once she is kicked out of westminster anyway
I suppose you are embarrased that we don't have an MP fighting to privitise the NHS and reduce taxes on the wealthy.
Idontbelieveit1948
says...
9:49pm Wed 17 Oct 12
HJarrs wrote:Hair splitting methinks, why did we have that referendum ? Because the liberal elite knew they couldn't get PR so they went for a watered down version and um lost.
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Doh! No, we had a vote on AV and as with any referendum it ended up being a vote about the Liberals v Labour v Conservatives than making the most meek and mild change to the voting system.
HJarrs wrote:Doh, didn't we have a referendum on that, didn't we vote and didn't it get kicked out
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:Yeah right, of course it is a Tory stitchup. If they truly cared about democracy they should be voting for PR.
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
You will just have to work harder at persuading us all then won't you, but preferably not here - get on your bike and hit the cycle lanes with your message.
Sussex jim
says...
10:07pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:The only way to end the coalition is for more sensible people to vote Conservative next time, to ensure a workable majority for the natural party of England. Or vote Labour to wreck our fragile economy even further.
MelsTels wrote:Twerp, its the Bounary Commission's recommendations and they are designed to give constituencies with equal electorate sizes to get a parliament that more accurately reflects the country's opinion.
Another Tory stitch up !!!!!!!!!!
The only stitch up here is all the rotten boroughs, mainly Labour held, that exist with tiny electorates and consequently give us an unrepresentative parliament.
The sooner these are cleared out the better. Of course it won't happen due to prats like Baker and his useless Clegg reneging on coalition agreements, so the sooner the coalition ends the better as well.
The choice is yours.
Rangjan
says...
10:31pm Wed 17 Oct 12
gusset snatcher wrote:but whereever UKIP have elected representatives (eg European Parliament) they have shown themselves to be more greedy and self-serving and corrupt than any of the other parties.
I doubt this will make much difference but a party I'd like to see coming through is UKIP as they will help to 1 Restore Self Government & Democracy 2 Rebuild Prosperity 3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country 4 Safeguards Against Crime 5 Care And Support For All 6 Our Way Of Life.
Norman Baker is an idiot.
Caroline Lucas and the rest of the Greens have no grasp on reality.
How were they ever elected MP's? I partly blame the other's expenses fiddling and they carry on abusing it
miis b
says...
10:33pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:38pm Wed 17 Oct 12
So to say you are proud of her HJarrs is astonishing.
The negligence of all of the Euro MPs in the past decade to bring Europe to its knees is one of the most shameful periods in modern history.
HJarrs, I spent a month in Europe recently and the sights of poverty are like something from the First World War, yet here we are frittering more EU money away on bike lanes while people can't get cancer drugs in some EU countries.
The world really is a sad place when putting traffic lights and lines on the road are more important than ensuring people can feed their kids.....wasn't that the point of Ms Lucas and the EU elected members representing Europe?
frida_3
says...
12:04am Thu 18 Oct 12
We in East Brighton are appalled that some outsider Councillors are trying to change our ward without proper consultation in trying to link East Brighton up with East coast towns miles away like of Seaford. We will fight any boundary changes affecting this area in which they are trying to fragment this part of town. I pay my Taxes for Brighton and not towns miles away so it is against the law what they are proposing. Our whole services will also be affected and watered down. Whitehawk and in particular Arundel Road has always belonged to Brighton and was the old boundary before Rottingdean lost its Parish council. I am disgusted that you are trying to shove out East Brighton like this!. We historically belong to Brighton including Marina. We will not be fobbed off to wards miles away that have no connections with us. East Brighton has every right to stay within Central Brighton. So you are going to have a a big fight on your hands if you think you can break up the historical make up of Brighton like this. You must think the people of East Brighton are stupid, in fact they are the oldest inhabitants of Brighton. Even Rottingdean feels miles away. I live at the back of Sussex Square and it feels part of Brighton historically and in Character. If you think you can fob off East Brighton like this then I am afraid you are going to have a strong fight on your hands. I will be the first to canvas against such ignorant proposals against changes to East Brighton ward. How dare you mess with our ward like this !!
Dealing with idiots
says...
7:22am Thu 18 Oct 12
miis b wrote:Er no. Check the ward map
think you will find Moulescoomb is tory not labour
http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/download
s/bhcc/democracy/Cou
ncillor_Ward_Map_201
2_web.pdf
JKW
says...
8:31am Thu 18 Oct 12
HJarrs
says...
9:29am Thu 18 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:When the parties you support don't spend £25 billion+ on a replacement for Trident then perhaps I will take note of your tired rants about the morality of spending. It is the parties that you have voted for that have brought us to this state. What were your Tory and Labour MEPs doing? They all backed with gusto an enconomic system that is really at fault for spreading poverty.
Caroline Lucas spent years at the heart of the European Parliament which has brought many EU countries to their knees financially. So to say you are proud of her HJarrs is astonishing. The negligence of all of the Euro MPs in the past decade to bring Europe to its knees is one of the most shameful periods in modern history. HJarrs, I spent a month in Europe recently and the sights of poverty are like something from the First World War, yet here we are frittering more EU money away on bike lanes while people can't get cancer drugs in some EU countries. The world really is a sad place when putting traffic lights and lines on the road are more important than ensuring people can feed their kids.....wasn't that the point of Ms Lucas and the EU elected members representing Europe?
Anyway, this simplifies a very complex subject for which your pet subject the London Rd cyclepath is completely irrelevant. My view is that a great fraud has been perpetrated partly by EU institutions and countries but primarily by financial corporations who encouraged, aided and abetted the process.
Two countries that seem to be fairing well are Germany and the Netherlands, both countries with thousands of miles of high quality cycle paths.
Alison Smith
says...
9:34am Thu 18 Oct 12
gusset snatcher
says...
9:35am Thu 18 Oct 12
HJarrs wrote:Take your imbecile's blinkers off and take a look around Brighton...... have you noticed the hills yet?.... what next for the Greens? a £1 million cycle lane for Bear Road
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:When the parties you support don't spend £25 billion+ on a replacement for Trident then perhaps I will take note of your tired rants about the morality of spending. It is the parties that you have voted for that have brought us to this state. What were your Tory and Labour MEPs doing? They all backed with gusto an enconomic system that is really at fault for spreading poverty.
Caroline Lucas spent years at the heart of the European Parliament which has brought many EU countries to their knees financially. So to say you are proud of her HJarrs is astonishing. The negligence of all of the Euro MPs in the past decade to bring Europe to its knees is one of the most shameful periods in modern history. HJarrs, I spent a month in Europe recently and the sights of poverty are like something from the First World War, yet here we are frittering more EU money away on bike lanes while people can't get cancer drugs in some EU countries. The world really is a sad place when putting traffic lights and lines on the road are more important than ensuring people can feed their kids.....wasn't that the point of Ms Lucas and the EU elected members representing Europe?
Anyway, this simplifies a very complex subject for which your pet subject the London Rd cyclepath is completely irrelevant. My view is that a great fraud has been perpetrated partly by EU institutions and countries but primarily by financial corporations who encouraged, aided and abetted the process.
Two countries that seem to be fairing well are Germany and the Netherlands, both countries with thousands of miles of high quality cycle paths.
juleshove
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9:49am Thu 18 Oct 12
Anyone has to be better than her, Labour, Tory or Lib Dems.
The Greens were a protest vote and clearly the protest vote has backfired.
Even many of the 'usual suspects' that voted Green are now sorry they did..
Maxwell's Ghost
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9:51am Thu 18 Oct 12
A conflict of policy and plain stupidity so to claim they are supporting sustainable trasnport is a lie.
They are feathering the nests of the rich and their little friends while the rest of us should be exepcted to climb Bear Road on foot no matter what our age or ability.
They are crackpots who need to go before they destroy this city with their vanity projects and self serving egos.
Maxwell's Ghost
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10:18am Thu 18 Oct 12
However, you seem incapable of being objective and you will do anything to support your party no matter how immoral its members become.
The Tories sold off state owned assets they had no legal right to do so, Labour got us into an illegal war and destroyed the education system and the Lib Dems sold out to the Tories and now we have the Greens, lying, taking, ignoring, and acting just as immorally.
You may not want to see it, but you will eventually and the rest of the electorate already have and will vote them out anyway.
As for Ms Lucas, she still hasn't confirmed if she has five homes and if they are vacant and if she leaves lights and the heating on in winter in all five homes?
As for the multi-storey car park on the Lewes Road HJarrs, that's ok is it?
And spending money on a bike lane when my friends in Greece are asking me to get cancer drugs from Boots to send to them is ok?
People fighting for the basic human rights of food and medicine should come above parochial schemes for bike lanes, particulalry when the idiot council is building a bloody multi-storey car park on the route.
Nutters.
Whitehawkian
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10:19am Thu 18 Oct 12
JKW wrote:Not targeting precisely enough, it is still there. Maybe if they used Laser Sights?
I don't think Lucas will be worried just yet, they'll get votes out of Patcham and Moulescoomb..they have been targeting Patcham for some time now.
HJarrs
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12:50pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:What is happening in Greece is quite appaling and your efforts to support your friend in need are admirable, but I fail to see what relevance spending money or not on infrastructure improvements in Brighton like the Lewes Rd (no Euro funding to my knowledge) has. If the project were cancelled not one penny would be reallocated to help our friends in Greece and you know it.
HJarrs, I do not support any of the parties so your supposition that my party spent money on Trident is a nonsense because I also do not beleive in spending money in an arms race when people are starving. However, you seem incapable of being objective and you will do anything to support your party no matter how immoral its members become. The Tories sold off state owned assets they had no legal right to do so, Labour got us into an illegal war and destroyed the education system and the Lib Dems sold out to the Tories and now we have the Greens, lying, taking, ignoring, and acting just as immorally. You may not want to see it, but you will eventually and the rest of the electorate already have and will vote them out anyway. As for Ms Lucas, she still hasn't confirmed if she has five homes and if they are vacant and if she leaves lights and the heating on in winter in all five homes? As for the multi-storey car park on the Lewes Road HJarrs, that's ok is it? And spending money on a bike lane when my friends in Greece are asking me to get cancer drugs from Boots to send to them is ok? People fighting for the basic human rights of food and medicine should come above parochial schemes for bike lanes, particulalry when the idiot council is building a bloody multi-storey car park on the route. Nutters.
Look, you complain but don't seem to want any change from the current system and are happy to stay apathetic under Labour or conservative administrations. That is up to you. Some of us want to move forward.
Maxwell's Ghost
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1:03pm Thu 18 Oct 12
The very fact they are a mix of the parties is why they are a fractured group.
And is it really moving forward bringing MPs into the city who have already screwed it up elsewhere and is it really change to build a multi-storey car park at the same time as closing a road.
That's not change, that's a mess.
To make real change you have to listen to the people and if you study change process, you will lear that more than 70 per cent of change plans fail.
What is interesting is that you moved here and then started wanting change to cope with the influx of people similar to yourself.
Your life choice is now forcing change upon others but you just don't get that do you.
If you wanted change you could have gone up north and started to move away from the SE, but you didn't.
Your life choice is part of the problem you now want everyone else to deal with.
Fight_Back
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1:03pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Are you seriously suggesting that both these countries economies are fairing better than others because of cycle paths ? Really ?
Do don't advise Kitcat on financial matters by any chance do you ?
Fight_Back
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1:30pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Fight_Back wrote:That should have read "Do you advise Kitcat on financial matters by any chance ? "
"Two countries that seem to be fairing well are Germany and the Netherlands, both countries with thousands of miles of high quality cycle paths."
Are you seriously suggesting that both these countries economies are fairing better than others because of cycle paths ? Really ?
Do don't advise Kitcat on financial matters by any chance do you ?
HJarrs
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2:22pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Fight_Back wrote:I was applying Maxwell's logic :)..
Fight_Back wrote: "Two countries that seem to be fairing well are Germany and the Netherlands, both countries with thousands of miles of high quality cycle paths." Are you seriously suggesting that both these countries economies are fairing better than others because of cycle paths ? Really ? Do don't advise Kitcat on financial matters by any chance do you ?That should have read "Do you advise Kitcat on financial matters by any chance ? "
Germany seems to be doing particularly well, which I put down to a commitment to an outward looking social democratic state, a commitment that seems to spread from CDU to the Greens (who are a large and growng party there).
ourcoalition
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2:36pm Thu 18 Oct 12
juleshove wrote:I am not a Green voter, but I have to say that as one of her constituents, who often contacts her office, I get prompt, and helpful responses. Her predecessor, Dave Lepper was the same.
If it means that awful Lucas woman goes then i'm all for it !
I know from friends/colleagues in the adjacent constituencies that their experience is very different.
ourcoalition
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2:40pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Poccypoc wrote:Having known Norman for many years, and voted for him, to keep the Tories out,I have to say his "about turn" on a range of issues, is only matched by his Party Leader.
Baker suddenly stopped talking about Kelly when he got into government. Funny, that!
I don't live in Lewes now, but my parents still do - they, and many others, will never vote for him again - lesson learnt!!!
HJarrs
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2:40pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:If it were a mix of Labour / Tories and a bit of eco I wouldn't be in it. Perhaps you are thinking of the Liberals.
I think you will find that the Greens are a mix of Tories and Labour with eco stuck on the end. The very fact they are a mix of the parties is why they are a fractured group. And is it really moving forward bringing MPs into the city who have already screwed it up elsewhere and is it really change to build a multi-storey car park at the same time as closing a road. That's not change, that's a mess. To make real change you have to listen to the people and if you study change process, you will lear that more than 70 per cent of change plans fail. What is interesting is that you moved here and then started wanting change to cope with the influx of people similar to yourself. Your life choice is now forcing change upon others but you just don't get that do you. If you wanted change you could have gone up north and started to move away from the SE, but you didn't. Your life choice is part of the problem you now want everyone else to deal with.
I think you ust get out of bubble Brighton mentality. People move and are encouraged to do so, B&H is a city of immigrants and always has been,just like the rest of the country. But had I remained in my home town I would have supported similar policies and others would have done the same in B&H.
My life choice and your life choice effect others. I want a steady and sensible modal shift away from the private car and the refurbishment of the housing stock of B&H to reduce energy use and address fuel poverty for example. Universal ideas for the whole country.
I read this week that we maybe hitting the upper curve for temperature rise for glaobal warming, so how are we supposed to address this looming issue, just one of many, without radical change? We can't, but look what nonsense is written about building a couple of cycle lanes! And heavens will surely swallow us up if parking spaces are reduced.
Maxwell's Ghost
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4:57pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Then, when you arrive, you try to tell us that we are overpopulated and we should take action.
It's not only galling, it's downright cheeky and if you understood people you would perhaps take a different approach to getting people to take on board your policies.
You have helped fuel house prices, you have helped the culture of family homes being divided into flats bringing more traffic, you have added to the pressure on school numbers, health care and then you tell local people who have been trying to manage this for more than a decade how we should now live.
That is why you face such opposition.
Kawasaki998
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5:06pm Thu 18 Oct 12
The Greens have done a lot a damage to the City and spent money unwisely
Idontbelieveit1948
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8:04pm Thu 18 Oct 12
"I read this week that we maybe hitting the upper curve for temperature rise for glaobal warming, so how are we supposed to address this looming issue, just one of many, without radical change? "
Suggest you move to China or India or Brazill and start working on those producing most greenhouse gases and give us a rest for a while !
Maxwell's Ghost
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8:18pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Take your kids back to your home town and leave us alone. Take KitKat and Lucas to live in their home towns instead of hijacking our communities.
nocando
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8:49pm Thu 18 Oct 12
tonybee
says...
1:50am Fri 19 Oct 12
voted for the watermelon party ie Green on the outside.& red on the inside.
Being a fanatical Albion fan of some 50 years standing promoted a dream
about meeting Baker on a dark night.......
As for Lucas her only hope is emigrate
to Outer Mongolia. Perhaps she could take chocolate snap off KITKAT with her ! I trust all the Green/reds watched
his shambolic TV appearance the other night - the halting speech,the fixed staring eyes - he obviously needs rehab
How can anybody vote Green ? Would it make a difference if it was renamed
The Frontal Lobectomy Party
.
ourcoalition
says...
3:25pm Fri 19 Oct 12
Kawasaki998 wrote:Not true - one vote, where they choose to register.
We can only hope that Lucas loses the next election. The students I understand have 2 votes which I think is unfair. At home where they live and here were they reside at the University
The Greens have done a lot a damage to the City and spent money unwisely
Idontbelieveit1948
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9:19pm Fri 19 Oct 12
ourcoalition wrote:I wanted to clarify this so I wrote to the cabinet office and they told me the actual situation is as follows;-
Kawasaki998 wrote:Not true - one vote, where they choose to register.
We can only hope that Lucas loses the next election. The students I understand have 2 votes which I think is unfair. At home where they live and here were they reside at the University
The Greens have done a lot a damage to the City and spent money unwisely
"It is a matter for the local Electoral Registration Officer to decide whether someone is resident or not. A person registered to vote in more than one area is not permitted to vote twice in a general election or European election, however, they are eligible to vote in two (or more) localities in local elections as in doing so they are not casting a vote in an election to the same body."
So you are both partly right, certainly my concern was with the council elections given how the Greens seem intent on ignoring the residents on so many issues and are causing so much damage to our city and its residents and traders.
I personally regard Lucas as an irrelevance and given the ruckus the Greens seem intent on causing here I suspect she and many of the Green councillors will be out next time round.
george smith
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9:38pm Fri 19 Oct 12
tonybee wrote:What programme was that, I will get back on recall please/
Interesting to see some morons actually voted for the watermelon party ie Green on the outside.& red on the inside. Being a fanatical Albion fan of some 50 years standing promoted a dream about meeting Baker on a dark night....... As for Lucas her only hope is emigrate to Outer Mongolia. Perhaps she could take chocolate snap off KITKAT with her ! I trust all the Green/reds watched his shambolic TV appearance the other night - the halting speech,the fixed staring eyes - he obviously needs rehab How can anybody vote Green ? Would it make a difference if it was renamed The Frontal Lobectomy Party .
tonybee
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2:54am Sat 20 Oct 12
Disremember the actual prog
It was either 6pm news BBC/ITV or the follow up S/East today
Atb Tony
george smith
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11:54am Sat 20 Oct 12
tonybee wrote:thanks!
hello George Disremember the actual prog It was either 6pm news BBC/ITV or the follow up S/East today Atb Tony
The Baron Pepperpot
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9:55pm Sat 20 Oct 12
juleshove wrote:and makes me proud...
spencer1973 wrote:Totally agree. Lucas especially should never have got in. Makes me embarrassed to say i'm from Brighton.
I flippin hope so, Lucas and Baker are two of the most odious MP's in the House. Lucas especially, as she was only really voted in due to the student population , whom many dissapear once their studies are over, leaving the rest of us to deal with the communist Greens.
Lucas will only go back to the EU pigs trough once she is kicked out of westminster anyway
The Baron Pepperpot
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9:57pm Sat 20 Oct 12
BornInBrighton1968 wrote:Do you know what marxist means ?
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see '5 homes' lucas lose her seat.
Then all we have to do is get rid of the rest of the hard-Left, Marxist loons in the Green council...
ourcoalition
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12:48pm Sun 21 Oct 12
The Baron Pepperpot wrote:Hard left, Marxist - if only!!
BornInBrighton1968 wrote:Do you know what marxist means ?
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see '5 homes' lucas lose her seat.
Then all we have to do is get rid of the rest of the hard-Left, Marxist loons in the Green council...
BornInBrighton1968
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2:35pm Sun 21 Oct 12
The Baron Pepperpot wrote:Taken from Pippa Bartolotti's (Leader of the Welsh Green')s blog;
BornInBrighton1968 wrote:Do you know what marxist means ?
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see '5 homes' lucas lose her seat.
Then all we have to do is get rid of the rest of the hard-Left, Marxist loons in the Green council...
"When I first heard that we had won Brighton, I bowed down on my right knee (as is customary with my Marxist beliefs), secure in the knowledge that this win was the beginning of class war, and that we Marxist's would rise up to smash the system and destroy the rich "
Delightful...
still waiting says...
9:56am Wed 17 Oct 12