News RSS Feed


Gang brag about attack on internet

11:00pm Sunday 25th March 2007

comment Comments (85)   Have your say »

By Andy Chiles »

Sickening images have been brazenly posted on the internet by a teenage gang bragging about their violent behaviour.

They are part of a CCTV video of a vicious fight outside Churchill Square in Brighton to which the gang have added a rap soundtrack and a title sequence insulting the police and proudly claiming credit for the crimes.

In the three minutes of footage one hoodie can be seen attacking a group of teenagers with a flurry of punches. His gang then throw one of their victims to the floor and repeatedly kick him and stamp on his head.

The incident is yet another example of the growing presence of youth crime in Sussex. More than 10,000 ten to 17 year olds were arrested in the county last year.

It is not yet known how this gang of thugs were able to access the video, which was shot by a police CCTV camera.

A Sussex Police spokesman said yesterday that footage would not normally go outside the force.

He said: "We are investigating the way the video has been made public."

However, he added that if the prosecuting lawyers planned to use footage as evidence in court they were obliged to give access to the defence.

The video is one of a series of three posted on the Bebo and YouTube websites by someone with the username "Moulsboi". It is tagged with the words Moulsecoomb and Whitehawk, spelt incorrectly.

Each shows the disturbing and aggressive behaviour of the group, who call themselves Yung Ofenderz.

One of the videos had been reported to Sussex Police and was under investigation before the fight at Churchill Square took place.

All three videos were posted during February half term. One has been categorised as entertainment.

In the first, posted on February 11, the group of more than a dozen teenagers can be seen jumping up and down in the top floor of a bus chanting abuse.

The notes with the video, written in American-style gangsta rap slang, say the gang are on their way to town to "smash up emos and goths and any1 else who get in our way".

The Argus recently reported that Churchill Square is a regular hang-out for "emos", ordinarily peaceful teenagers who like emotional rock music.

In the second video the gang are again seen chanting abuse and drinking at Moulsecoomb railway station before aggressively surrounding a waiting member of the public.

Moulsboi claims in his notes that one of the gang later "bashed" the passenger and invites people to email him for the full footage.

The fight at Churchill Square, which took place at 7.45pm on Valentine's Day, February 14, is shown in the third video. The song Jus A Rascal by rapper Dizzee Rascal has been added as a soundtrack.

In the footage two groups of teens can be seen coming together by the steps close to Borders bookshop.

A shortish figure dressed in a grey hooded tracksuit can be seen at the edge of the group. He signals to his friends to put up the hoods on their tops before charging into the group throwing punches and kicks.

One victim is dragged to the ground and beaten, kicked and stamped on by members of his gang.

The hoodie then emerges and is given congratulatory hugs by his friends before the gang run away together.

Sussex Police said three people had been arrested following the fight and at least one had been charged and was expected to appear in court.

Brighton Pavilion MP David Lepper said he was disgusted at the actions of the gang.

He said: "They should throw the book at whoever has done this. I almost can't believe they have done it.

"It is not my place to say if anyone is guilty of violence. What they are clearly guilty of is making entertainment out of antisocial behaviour. It is disgraceful."

On a visit to Brighton and Hove in January, Prime Minister Tony Blair declared the city a Respect area, promising funding for projects to tackle antisocial behaviour. The city council will receive £400,000 for the work over the next two years.

YouTube and Bebo were unavailable to comment on the video yesterday.

Have you been a victim of crime? Leave your comments below.


Your Say YourArgus

Mark, Lancs says...
1:46am Mon 26 Mar 07

This is what you get for decades of do-gooders destroying the idea of self-defence!
Our courts are useless, and the government is worse than useless - they would rather turn us all into criminals than do anything about scum like this!
Well I joined Navigor THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION because of scum like this and our pathetic court system!

Tony, Brighton says...
5:35am Mon 26 Mar 07

What do you expect with our invisible police ?
Churchill Square is just another no-go area & nobody gives a ****

sue, Hove says...
7:07am Mon 26 Mar 07

This is what happens when the police blatantly ignore bad behaviour. When all discipline is taken away from teachers. And Parents do nothing to discipline their children but spend time in their self-centred activities. I will never forget the actions of a three year old tugging at his mother and saying talk to me. Needless to say, mother ignored her child and having banal conversations on her mobile phone. Another 14 year old asked me - why did my parents have me - they never soend any time with me - I was shocked he is a delightful young man who obviously feels unwanted. How sad. Until parents take responsibility fot their children - nothing will change.

Karim, Brighton says...
8:57am Mon 26 Mar 07

There should be a permanent police presence on the ground in this part of town.

paul, brighton says...
9:33am Mon 26 Mar 07

I think that the police needs to be in the centre of town at all times, this has happens lots of times, and to no that the oldery and members of the pubic does not feel safe in our city. they should be locked up and throw away the key.

K, Brighton says...
10:03am Mon 26 Mar 07

I was attacked by a group of teenagers about 3 years ago in North Street at 8.30pm on my way to work. When I reported it to the police, they phoned me back 3 days later and said they didn't want to know as they were not going to do anything about it, so would not log my complaint. There is not enough police presence on the streets of central Brighton, it's just going to get worse especailly when the pedestrianisation of New Road is completed, this will just be another area for trouble makers to meet and make it a no go area for law abiding citizens to go after dark.

rob, london says...
12:05pm Mon 26 Mar 07

surely the cause of the problem isnt the lack of policing, more the lack of moral standards by some parents.........

Jim, brighton says...
12:17pm Mon 26 Mar 07

CCTV is anything but secure or 'closed circuit' and accessible by anyone via various websites.
Not sure it is the fault of police at all, Government have set the targets and seek to manipulate the statistics to there own ends and seek to tell us what a wonderful job they are doing despite the evidence we see clearly with our own eyes.
Criminality is absolutely rife in our society now precisely because of under investment in police, education, social services and law enforcement.

Glen, Brighton says...
12:32pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Wimps.

A Gold, Brighton says...
12:37pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Britain has become the dustbin of Europe. I agree with the first poster. Too many do gooders have been the cause of this. These 'boys' (animals) will be breeding before too long & God only knows what their offspring will turn out like. The MP's, T B.Liar & the decision makers don’t have to catch a late bus or wait around at unmanned stations late at night like us grunts so they never see the grief we have to put up with on a day to day basis & the police are only interested in league tables. I'm living in your cesspit Mr B.Liar. What wuill you do about it? Hug a hoodie Cameron is no better...Its time for TOUGH LOVE. National Service anyone?

Peter, Brighton says...
1:54pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Parental responsibility is an integral part of bringing up children. What do the parents think when it's gone midnight and their kids aren't at home? Do they not wonder what mischief their darling kiddywinks are getting up to at that time of the evening? The nanny brigade have all but outlawed smacking (punching, kicking and beating is bad but smacking isn't child abuse)and this is the legacy of years of turning a blind eye.
When I venture into the city centre at the weekend I'm amazed at the lack of self - embarrassment or self respect that
people seem to have. They think nothing of shouting, dropping litter, acting in a completely unreasonable way but in their minds that's how they think you should act properly.
I'm counting the days until I can emigrate!

Chris, Brighton says...
4:45pm Mon 26 Mar 07

This sickens me. I was attacked in Worthing four years ago just because I have long hair and don't dress in dodgy tracksuits.

I find it difficult and intimidating to enjoy the nightlife of Brighton because of the way I dress and the length of my hair because 'people' (and I use the term loosely) take offense and decide to cause trouble which severely limits the choices of night venues.

Tough love needs to be implemented. If a 'hoodie' attacks someone, catch them and beat them senseless. Eye for an eye.

It won't be long before the ordinary citizen retaliates and an all out war erupts on the streets of Brighton.

Davrod, Hove says...
4:53pm Mon 26 Mar 07

What was the camers operator doing?? Do they not call police when violence erupts?? Chavs, nothing better to do than talk about burberry and smoke crack.

Red, Brighton says...
4:56pm Mon 26 Mar 07

I agree with people that we need to sort these scummy chavs out. They cause more hassle that they are worth and just tie up resources. People don't have a go at them because they all dress the same in there sporty rubbish, live and let live or kill or be killed.

Risky H Q, scoom says...
6:51pm Mon 26 Mar 07

we ant no scummy chavs were tru scoombers so **** off!!

A Gold, Brighton says...
7:27pm Mon 26 Mar 07

You're an embarrassment Master Risky (low) IQ. You're a product of a weak society, a flawed lefty social experiment gone wrong and minimal education. You lack respect for others so I assume you also lack respect for yourself and your family. You & your type only have one sorry messed up life to look forward to one way or another. Remember these words, I know you will. They’ll come back to haunt you in years to come. If you want to act hard, try the Army. Adios.

PS Dont forget to swear at me. Its all par for the course

Ali, Brighton says...
8:39pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Risky H Q, Can you please tell me the diffrence between Chavs and True 'Scoombers'.

I thaught they were all the same thing!

Lilian gish, worthing says...
8:47pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Welcome to Blairs socialist Utopia,the new labour project is near to the festering cess pitt it has yearned for us all to live in since do gooders infiltrated schools and town halls in the 70s,
I'm off to Australia before these vermin start to breed.

dodgy, brighton says...
9:04pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Isn't it ironic that the same kind of things happened in Brighton in the 60's and 25 years later its a big film with music by the who .Giving the city some of the coool it has now!
Have we not got to just wait another 25 years for the film of these incidents?

Dan, Brighton says...
9:36pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Look Risky. I too am born & bred in 'Scoomb, Working class and lived mostly on the benfits system as a teenager. I HAD A CHOICE. That is my individual right, as it is yours. What you are doing is bringing your area 'the area you purport to be so proud of DOWN!' Do you think your neighbours & family respect your choice of path - why don't you ask them if you're so sure they will approve? ? In years to come you will come face to face with those who have suffered this sort of violence - 'god forbid' it be your wife, sister, mother, brother...child. It saddens me that so many have worked so hard to dispel the myths that surround Moulsecoomb, yet it is crushed by the obscenities you and others are so trivial about. I too suffered the same sort of violence in Central B'ton some time ago...but believe me when I say it stays with you even as an adult. You should take a trip to Africa, An AIDS hospice, a Romanian orphanage, even Great Ormond Street Hospital- you need to step back and look at the bigger picture instead of your little fishbowl... To even be a brightonian (which I used to be proud of) right now disgusts me.

John Doe, Brighton says...
10:52pm Mon 26 Mar 07

paul wrote:
I think that the police needs to be in the centre of town at all times, this has happens lots of times, and to no that the oldery and members of the pubic does not feel safe in our city. they should be locked up and throw away the key.
I agree with you totally. The law really needs to tackle these stains harder.

rsowen, Brighton says...
10:57pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Britain is dying.

Nothing new - you all knew that already; you're simply blogging your way into dealing with it.

Blogs here and blogs there - but not an action to be seen.

Words are one thing, sirs, but actions quite another. The matter that should be under consideration is not WHAT should be done - I think we are all of a similar mind, although by no means identical, I'm sure - but rather, HOW it should be done.

The blogosphere is full, one might even say bursting, with those who lament the approaching success of euthanasing Great Britain by mediocrity and degeneration. It is, therefore, a primal source of strength for a political movement based around the principles of what made Britain Great.

I see three options -

1: Keep blogging, do nothing
2: Keep blogging, join a fourth
party e.g. UKIP and push up
its membership ( at least it
shares many of the same
sentiments )
3: Keep blogging, create a party.

Create a party? What madness is this?

It's not about votes; it's about the percentage of the vote. If you gentlemen, and others like you, translated their cynicism and dissatisfaction into participation in targeted political arenas ( targeted both in terms of location and time ), the proportion of the vote ( small though the absolute size of the vote may be ) held by us would carry us forward along the road to success.

I would welcome your thoughts on this, gentlemen - and even your supporting actions, if you feel inclined to exert more than your fingertips to revive Britain.

What do you say?

I am, right now, setting up an email address to collect opinion and/or action. The address is:

greater_britain@yahoo.co.uk

Looking forward to reclaiming a nation, and perhaps a decent future, ladies & gentlemen....

Yours

Sam Owen

Bugenhagen, Brighton says...
11:28pm Mon 26 Mar 07

Why is our council so bloody useless? I swear violence and harrasment in public has increased over the past 15 years I have been in this city.

Please stop building new libraries and playgrounds to distract the youths because I do not think a book is going to distract them from when they are beating your son or even raping your daughter.

For the love of God and the good of the city put more protection our streets. I do not want to be scared at night in my own city.

I.L., USA says...
11:31pm Mon 26 Mar 07

This is basically what happens what happens when some kids parents don't get the belt after them and get them in side the home, at a reasonable hour. Especially when your child is friends with people like that.

G, Brighton says...
11:53pm Mon 26 Mar 07

As a working class east-Brightonian myself, I completely agree with Dan's comment. Unfortunately, that's only because I am intelligent enough to understand it and unfortunately these people are not. There is no reasoning whatsoever with people like this. I'm intrigued to know what goes through their minds. To be that inhumane and incapable of considering the feelings of others must require a completely different consciousness in every aspect of life. It's a cliché, but nevertheless true that the majority of the blame lies with the parents. The kind of parents that are more interested in their own self-gratification, be it with booze, drugs, material things, television etc., than providing their kids with moral guidance, patience and inspiration. The kind of parents who think that nurturing their kids means buying them a nike tracksuit, a mobile phone and an ear-piercing as soon as they're old enough to walk. There needs to be a radical new strategy that targets the parents of anti-social children, involving fines for the well off and benefit withdrawal for those less well off.

Tony, Brighton says...
8:30am Tue 27 Mar 07

Yes, sounds like a good idea. Take away cash from the pockets of parents.
Like we have taken away the right to punish. Kids cant be 'grounded', it infrindges on human rights. They cant be smacked, its child abuse. You tell me what to do when your child does not arrive at 9.30pm as you asked? Drive around? find them? force them into your car? oh, nope, cant do that...its child abduction. What ways have been left to parents...have a little talk with them. Big Deal!

Its society to blame for this, and who are society? Us, each and every one of us.

Sites like Bebo are just as responsible, with no controls. Kids hide behind the screen, make statements and past judgement, often with foul abuse, then wonder why there is a response they dont like.

And for the record, I understand that Risky HQ is the name of a group of music makers in East Brighton. They were spurned to music by courses run by the local authorities. Unfortantly, the 'glory' of this has rubbed off on others who dont know anything about music apart from how to download it to a phone! The name is now worn as a badge, not representative at all of its original intention.

Disgusted, Ex of Brighton says...
10:29am Tue 27 Mar 07

According to the Argus of 14th March 4 little scumbags aged 15-17 have just been sent down for between 4-6 months and 2 slightly older ones are being sentenced on 20 April.

Lets get this right. They were attacking Austrian students not other gangs. Very brave indeed!

And also perhaps all this criticism of the police/council in this instance is misplaced as they have been banged up. Not the police's fault its for such a short time.

Just a little surprised the author of this article didnt explain all this in his article above.

Chris, Brighton says...
12:32pm Tue 27 Mar 07

Risky H Q wrote:
we ant no scummy chavs were tru scoombers so **** off!!
Two generations of my family are from Moulsecoomb. Two generations of hard working, peaceful, respectable members of society.

Don't even dare to try and use your surroundings as justification for yobbish behaviour.

Miscreants like yourself need to be dealt with in the harshest manner applicable by law.

Jim Lewes, brighton says...
6:44pm Tue 27 Mar 07

Disgusted wrote:
According to the Argus of 14th March 4 little scumbags aged 15-17 have just been sent down for between 4-6 months and 2 slightly older ones are being sentenced on 20 April. Lets get this right. They were attacking Austrian students not other gangs. Very brave indeed! And also perhaps all this criticism of the police/council in this instance is misplaced as they have been banged up. Not the police's fault its for such a short time. Just a little surprised the author of this article didnt explain all this in his article above.
Well said!! Swift justice in action.
Why have The Argus neglected to report this in the article above?

Margaret, worcester says...
9:19pm Tue 27 Mar 07

Yobs today are the scourge of Britain, primarily because successive governments have totally destroyed the right of self-defence !
Fear of teenage violence is now so widespread that over 1.7 million Britons dare not go out after nightfall because of teenage gangs !

According to Tony Blair himself, the criminal justice system is "utterly useless" in protecting the public from yobs !

And the reason is simple - they do not fear the law - they hold it in total contempt !

For decades criminally inept liberal "do-gooders" who care nothing about the consequences of their lunatic agendas have removed the concept of punishment from the criminal justice system !

The results of their policies can be seen everywhere - mindless thugs roaming the streets looking for innocent victims to attack, elderly people brutally beaten or even murdered in their own homes, and the final obscenity - children who have never known a day's discipline in their lives murdering other children !

It seems almost unbelievable that such scum should be allowed to ruin the lives of so many people, but that is the reality of Britain today !

The so-called "justice" system has become totally fixated on the rights of criminals - the law which is supposed to protect the innocent and vulnerable has instead made the thugs untouchable!

So much so that any attempt to stand up for one's own rights is met with persecution and prosecution by incompetent and gutless police who would rather defend the yobs than arrest them !

For the criminals, thugs and yobs who infest our society there are no deterrents, no restraints and no punishments !

They can commit crime after crime after crime, yet still walk free from courts, laughing at a system which criminalises and punishes their victims, and rewards thugs for being thugs !

And the government, entrusted with the protection of its citizens has renaged on that trust, leaving innocent people defenceless against an ever increasing tide of lawlessness.

It is time to put a stop to it - once and for all !

It is time to take back your freedom and your rights, time to stop the yobs from wrecking your lives, time to stop living in fear, time to stop being a victim - TIME TO FIGHT BACK !

FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE YOBS - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !


http://www.navigor.org.uk

glen, brighton says...
11:14pm Tue 27 Mar 07

Wow you are so tough your kind was taken out by 1 ex boxer which i thought was great it actually made my year. Let this continue.

emzy, brighton says...
3:36pm Thu 29 Mar 07

im not bein funny but all these mugs need locking away and not lettin out.on one of the vids you can see one of the victims bein kicked in the head and dragged around like some sort of rag doll.it disgusts me.my mate was attacked by a group of lads like this on sat night and to be honest it makes me sick.all people like that are just making themselves out to be what they typically are,...council house plebs who find pleasure in other peoples pain.you all deserve what you get mate i hope they throw the book at you.im a scoomber and its nothing to be proud of.as its jumped up little **** like this that give my estate a bad name.

Dom, says...
9:37pm Thu 29 Mar 07

A dozen police officers, max! (on a good day)patrolling a town the size of Brighton, in a force that has a £10 million short fall to make up, and yet every one always expect the police to be right on the door step when crimes are committed. Get a grip , dont blame the police, blame the yobs and the **** foot society we live in today. Lack of discipline (a cliche I know) but they are literally running riot. The public are afraid to stand up to these yobs because they fear they are just as likely to end up in the box explaining why they used force to defend themselves and others, its the same for the police. Every one's afraid of the system that's supposed to protect them. The police put them in front of the courts and its the court sentencing thats a joke when it comes to the growing population of scum festering in our towns.

ledge, brighton says...
7:39pm Fri 30 Mar 07

o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!

A Gold, Brighton says...
8:38pm Fri 30 Mar 07

ledge wrote:
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
What did that young man say? Something about Burberry?

Andrew Robertson, Brighton says...
12:36pm Sat 31 Mar 07

Welcome to Labour's Britain - lawlessness with no fear of being caught or even if your are you will barely get punished?

Police Officers who are forced to sit at desks and fill in reams of paperwork for the Labour Home Office.

One officer in Brighton has spoken out against it.

Visit his website to see what he says

www.realpolicing.co.uk

givenup, says...
12:18am Sun 1 Apr 07

I am a teacher in a special school for kids like this and I am confused God knows what the kids are like. I am sick of this KIDS FIRST attitude. They actually dont respect themselves or others, cos they have had any sense of responsibility taken away from them. The basic lesson we are meant to teach nowadays is "that was very silly throwing that brick through the window little johnny wasnt it... but what a good throw you did, well done."

Oh and just to aggrevate anyone further. I have been privy to our local councils spending to solve this problem. It aint funny. Not when our C/T bills are so high.
3.5 million pounds last year by B&H city council to transport kids with learning difficulties to school by taxi. The ones I work with arent like my daughter who has down syndrome, she needs that definitely, but these kids I teach most of them spend weekends hanging on buses etc... Well able to get home. Problem is nobody gives them the responsibility.
God help us with what we are teaching our kids.

Disgusted, Ex of Brighton says...
10:07am Sun 1 Apr 07

ledge wrote:
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
Your name should be Illedge little boy. Still, that comment's probably gone straight over your hooded head.

"Stuff like this happens every day." That's exactly why all these completely frustrated law abiding people posting on this link are so frustrated. Its not meant to be the norm you fool.


A provoked fight?! What, did one of those naive Austrian students dare to stand up for himself when being badmouthed by one of the tough boys. It's called bullying, plain and simple.

Andy, Bury says...
1:51pm Sun 1 Apr 07

Navigor = BNP. Don't be taken in by these idiot crackpots.

A Gold, Brighton says...
8:16pm Sun 1 Apr 07

Andy. Ive had a look at their site. Are these 'idiot crackpots' any worse than those who let yobs run wild in public? Sorry mate but Im just a normal Joe Public type & none of the established political parties are doing what I want them to do in respect to crime & law & order.
I want my kids to be safe, I want my oap mum to be safe, I want visitors to my city to be safe as they go about their business.
If not 'Navigor = BNP' who do you suggest I turn to?
Its easy to name call & be dismissive but much harder to come up with viable solutions.

You're probably one of the good guys Andy & full of good intentions but the mood of law abiding people, the silent majority in this country is changing.

The road to **** is paved with good intentions.

Andy, Bury says...
8:52pm Sun 1 Apr 07

A Gold,

I live in a working class area which has it's fair share of crime. But I do not think the answer is to become a vigilante - to take the law into my own hands. Of course Navigor steers a path which, bizarrely, seems to steer clear of actually telling people to form vigilante groups and go kick in a few "yobs". I say bizarrely but, of course, they have to tread their own fine line regarding the law.

More worryingly is the apparent link to the BNP (have a google). They seem to be preying on the fear of crime and people's frustration to fuel support for that odious bunch. Looks like a front organisation, one of a number used by the BNP.

I have kids. I and they don't live in fear. We don't take the bait from idiots like Navigor who like to raise the fear of crime, rather than quell it. And just what is Navigor advocating? Summary justice? Would want those idiots determining who's innocent and who's guilty.

And I want my kids to grow up in a land free of racist neo-nazis.

I think that's fair enough.

A final point. I don't sit back and just name call. I actually talk with and support the police, lobby my council to get things done - and yes that can be frustrating at times. But it's better than picking up a baseball bat and thinking I'm Dirty Harry.






Albert Hurwood, says...
9:42am Mon 2 Apr 07

Dear Andy,

You obiously have not looked at our website very closely.
At no time does it claim to be linked, and neither does it have any affiliation to the BNP !
And how do you think you will stop crime which is now totally out of control?
Cower in your house and hope the thugs won't attack you ?
"Work" with a police force which daily becomes part of the problem, not the solution ?
Dream On !
The National Vigilante Organisation was set up to bring justice back to this country.
And we are growing every day - as more and more people realise that this country has totally given up on fighting crime.
And if you want proof of that, just read the newspapers !

www.navigor.org.uk



Andy, Bury says...
2:26pm Mon 2 Apr 07

Albert,

Just because you don't mention a link to the BNP, doesn't mean there isn't one does it. For those that doubt the suggestion, have a play with Google. And, of course, the BNP is partial to a front organisation or two.

Crime is totally out of control? No it's not. Blokes like you would like people to believe that because it suits your agenda. Of course newspapers report the more horrific cases - as they have done since the days of the penny dreadful. That does not, however, mean the end of the world is nigh. And you could of course change your newspaper to one that has less of an obssession - I know your favourite national read and it's hysterical and often inaccurate repoorting is not one to lower your blood pressure.


Do I cower at home? No, because I do not live in fear - although I am concerned about the rise of far right idiots and the trouble they might cause. As I should be.

And tell me Albert, just what is the purpose of youyr crackpot outfit? You call yourself a vigilante organisation - so are you actually advocating vigilante action? Or are you just culliung email addresses for other purposes?

Andy, Bury says...
2:42pm Mon 2 Apr 07

Just to avoid confusion, couple of dear old Albert Hurwood's posts which were attached to a story in the SWondon Advertiser:

Voice of Sense (lol) the choice is NOT between Labour and the BNP - the choice is between slavery and freedom - slavery or the BNP !

No I don't come from Swindon - I come from Corby - perhaps you remember Corby?

It was a place slammed by New Labour for being "too white and too British"!

And because of that 70 jobs are being moved to Leicestershire where they are certainly NOT too white!

LET's hope that Swindon is awash with ethnic majorities or your job prospects are zilch!


No BNP sympathies there eh Albert? Do you not think as an alleged seeker of justice you should be a wee bit more honest?

A Gold, Brighton says...
12:31am Tue 3 Apr 07

Andy wrote:
A Gold, I live in a working class area which has it's fair share of crime. But I do not think the answer is to become a vigilante - to take the law into my own hands. Of course Navigor steers a path which, bizarrely, seems to steer clear of actually telling people to form vigilante groups and go kick in a few "yobs". I say bizarrely but, of course, they have to tread their own fine line regarding the law. More worryingly is the apparent link to the BNP (have a google). They seem to be preying on the fear of crime and people's frustration to fuel support for that odious bunch. Looks like a front organisation, one of a number used by the BNP. I have kids. I and they don't live in fear. We don't take the bait from idiots like Navigor who like to raise the fear of crime, rather than quell it. And just what is Navigor advocating? Summary justice? Would want those idiots determining who's innocent and who's guilty. And I want my kids to grow up in a land free of racist neo-nazis. I think that's fair enough. A final point. I don't sit back and just name call. I actually talk with and support the police, lobby my council to get things done - and yes that can be frustrating at times. But it's better than picking up a baseball bat and thinking I'm Dirty Harry.
Andy, You still haven’t given me a viable option for when it comes to polling day.

Alberts organisation may not be perfect but they seem to have the wotsits to be doing something about it.

Over the last 5 years my daughter has been shot by an air rifle, my girlfriends son has been nutted & my nephew set about by a gang of chavs & the police have been able to do very little about any of it.

All the while the politicians stick their heads in the sand & their fat pay cheque in the bank nothing will change.

Every town now has a gang of hoodies exuding an air of menace and people, especially the old are frightened to leave their homes after dark & it aint right mate.

Until recently my politics have been left of centre. John Smith would have made a brilliant leader but the current lot are only interested in league tables & figures. The police now have 2 hands tied behind their backs, the courts are letting them down by dishing out silly sentences & their morale must be at an all time low. When you have your meetings with the police, how many times does the word 'resources' come up? Its funny how I never hear it when we're getting ready to fight a war against a country full of people who aint done me any harm.

I want one of the main parties to say they will be tough on crime & tough on the causes of crime & BLOOMIN WELL MEAN IT. But they wont because sadly in this PC world they aint got the guts.

Andy, Bury says...
9:25am Tue 3 Apr 07

Albert's organisation "may not be perfect"? The BNP is far from perfect. And you say they have the "wotsits". What precisely do you think they're going to do? No doubt paediatricians better watch out for fear of confused atack. Are you really thinking its a good idea to give these nutters the keys to summary justice?

I agree on John Smith - but do you think he'd have given these barmpots the time of day. You think he would have played to a BNP crowd?

I share your frustrations re who to vote for. But people need to get more involved in communities and work with and support the police. Vigilantism only makes the police's job harder 0 and let's be clear, Navigor is anti-police (it's the ploice farce apparently). Bear in mind too the BNP's prediction of civil unrest which it plans to exploit. Could attempts to undermine the criminal justice system be a part of that less than cunning plan?

Please do not be taken in.

A Gold, Brighton says...
12:10pm Tue 3 Apr 07

John Smith wouldn’t have needed to give extremists the time of day. I don’t think we'd have arrived at this crossroads we now face under him.

The balance has gone too far in favour of the bad guys & it needs to be brought back into some kind of balance by the main parties. If they refuse to address the problems we now face, the far right will gather more & more support. Its a fact of life.

If someone comes knocking on my door before the elections & tells me they WILL introduce stiffer penalties for criminals & muggers who are making my life just that little bit harder than it needs to be. If they say they’ll have more police on the streets instead of filling out 30 forms per arrest, if they say my streets will be safer to walk at night, I'll probably vote for them.

The no tolerance stance in New York is paying dividends & they aint an extremist regime so why cant our politicians do similar? It can be done if the will is there.

All I want is safety and a return to the days of respect people had for each other & something done about these jackals (top of the thread) who prey on the vulnerable in society (sorry, I’m starting to sound boring) I no longer care which party it is.

I’ve had a gutful.

Andy, Bury says...
12:23pm Tue 3 Apr 07

We have record prison numbers and yet falling crime (by both accounting methods 0 recorded crime and the British Crime Survey which records people's experience of crime, reported or not). That's not to say there aren't issues. But the the rhetoric espoused by the media is empty; all "the PC brigade this" and "the Human Rights Act that" which is bunkum, but readily seized by the Right to promote ots pernicious agenda.

And if you are frustrated ask yourself if the BNP is really going to ease them? Will self appointed vigilante grous really make the streets safer or, in fact, mean more and more thugs out their seeking their particular form of justice.

Great stor in Manchester about a nbloke called Taff who has helped turn around an estate by getting the whole community behind the residents' association and working with the police and other agencies to tackle anti-social behaviour. I prefer that model to one of far right extremists setting themselves up as vigilantes.