"Cycle train" calls for Brighton (From The Argus)
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"Cycle train" calls for Brighton
1:00pm Monday 14th December 2009 in
A “train of cyclists” could regularly make frequent trips along a busy road.
Campaigners have presented proposals to Brighton and Hove City Council to allow regular mass bike rides on Lewes Road.
Under the plans, the daily scheduled ‘train’ would take over a lane and ferry people between the Level and Falmer.
Lewes Road for Clean Air presented the plans to Brighton and Hove City Council as a way to reduce the 18,000 vehicle movements which the Department of Transport state use the road every day.
Roger French, of Brighton and Hove Bus Company, said: “I think it’s a crazy idea."
Could a “cycle train” work? Tell us what you think below.
Comments(57)
Mike D P
says...
1:29pm Mon 14 Dec 09
RickH
says...
1:29pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Ken dodds dads dog died
says...
1:40pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth
says...
1:42pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Mike D P wrote:average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.
toldsloth
says...
1:48pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth
says...
1:58pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Before you loonies kick off at me, I ride a bike and I drive a car. The only difference is that I get to see both sides of the story not just one through rose tinted cycling specs. If cyclists learned the meaning of a red light and agreed not to ride on the pavement (its meant for pedestrians guys) and perhaps wore some high vis and (God forbid) invested in some lights, any lights they might be treated a little better. I observe all of the above so why can't you? I pulled alongside a cyclist on Preston Road the other night and suggested that he might want to fit some lights as it was only my quick reactions that saved him from serious injury and what did I get back "**** off you moron" was the response. Enough said. The really galling thing is if he'd have hit me - and it would have been his fault as I was pulling out of a junction but he was almost invisible, I wold have got the blame. It would have been up to me to sue him to repair my vehicle yet he could claim off my insurance to fix his bike and head (if he still had it attached). Public liability insurance should be mandatory as should a basic proficiency test but of course that would "be an invasion of your freedom" wouldn't it.
kayotic
says...
2:25pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth wrote:I can't let Mike D P go through life thinking there are two esses in buses.
Mike D P wrote: Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
She-Ra, Princess Of Power
says...
2:41pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Soooo.... they're taking over "one lane" where there is only one lane between The Level and the Vogue Gyratory and then to reduce the rest of the two lanes to one lane.... how does slowing all the car drivers down help decrease emissions? The only thing it will reduce is speed and it will increase journey times and thus the amount of fumes pumped out... surely?
Why do they all need to ride together anyway - is there a problem with the current cycle lanes?
BlackRocker
says...
3:09pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Call me old fashioned, but I find it hard to take seriously the comments of anyone who hasn't yet mastered basic spelling or English grammar. Did they miss out on Tony Bliar's promised "Education, education,education"
? How on earth do they manage to read the Argus?
Andy R
says...
3:13pm Mon 14 Dec 09
kayotic wrote:There ARE two esses in buses........
toldsloth wrote:I can't let Mike D P go through life thinking there are two esses in buses.Mike D P wrote: Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
Acker79
says...
3:16pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth wrote:Cyclists often *can't* use the cycle lane along the lewes road between the level and the gyrotary because cars are always parked there.
on reflection, I'd like to know exactly how many cyclists use Lewes Road compared to cars, buses, trucks etc. I'll bet its an infinitessimal amount yet they already have a cycle lane which half of them don't use.
Before you loonies kick off at me, I ride a bike and I drive a car. The only difference is that I get to see both sides of the story not just one through rose tinted cycling specs. If cyclists learned the meaning of a red light and agreed not to ride on the pavement (its meant for pedestrians guys) and perhaps wore some high vis and (God forbid) invested in some lights, any lights they might be treated a little better. I observe all of the above so why can't you? I pulled alongside a cyclist on Preston Road the other night and suggested that he might want to fit some lights as it was only my quick reactions that saved him from serious injury and what did I get back "**** off you moron" was the response. Enough said. The really galling thing is if he'd have hit me - and it would have been his fault as I was pulling out of a junction but he was almost invisible, I wold have got the blame. It would have been up to me to sue him to repair my vehicle yet he could claim off my insurance to fix his bike and head (if he still had it attached). Public liability insurance should be mandatory as should a basic proficiency test but of course that would "be an invasion of your freedom" wouldn't it.
Speaking as a cyclist (with lights, high vis clothing, helmet, an inclination to stop at red lights etc) I have to say this is a bad idea. Other than the pedestrians in the cycle lane along the sea front, the thing that annoys me most on the roads is the other cyclists that show no respect for the laws of the road.
Providing these cycle trains won't make them better cyclists, heck, most of those cyclists that cause trouble are the sort that wouldn't be interested in using a cycle train.
Murgatroyd
says...
3:47pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Finally, why whenever the subject of cycling comes up, do the reactionary ol gits on here start banging on about the minority of irresponsible cyclists - as if the problems that they create mean that the rest of us don't deserve to be safe. Get out of your tin boxes, get on 2 wheels and see how you get on on Lewes Road fatties
Mick Hunt
says...
4:47pm Mon 14 Dec 09
kkj
says...
4:52pm Mon 14 Dec 09
freddo
says...
5:15pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Christophe Hawtree
says...
5:24pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Perhaps Mary Mears's policy turns could be called GyraTory
davyboy
says...
6:17pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth
says...
6:56pm Mon 14 Dec 09
As for "a minority of irresponsible cyclists - have you ever stopped and watched the cyclists that use the road? I would say that it is a "responsible minority" that use all of the above and the VAST MAJORITY who behave as if they are immortal. Again on the way home tonight I passed four cyclists between the Patcham mini roundabout and Preston Park that had no lights. One was riding on the pavement and another one decided that he wasn't going to wait for the lights at Preson Drove, rode through the red light and then up across the central reservation and across opposite side Preston Road down the pavement. I didn't see any other cyclists let alone ones dressed and equipped correctly or obeying the Highway Code. Actually to give the other muppet who was riding on the pavement past Kingsmere his due, he did have a flashing rear light.
Perhaps I was just unlucky and all the good ones were tucked up for the night.........
Don't get me going on bus drivers - half of them need prosecuting for shooting red lights, speeding and generally forgetting that they have passengers on board.
Mr Numptyhead
says...
7:02pm Mon 14 Dec 09
I am a cyclist and I treat traffic lights in the same way as when I am on foot.
If there are vehicles (or pedestrians), wait, be careful. If there are not, proceed.
Any cyclist who gets up to speed and stops for no reason, then gets up to speed again is a masochist, fitness freak or idiot. You are wasting time and energy.
Come on, shoot me down if you can but why has no other cyclist pointed out this obvious fact ?
Despite being a "rogue" cyclist and spending many years in London I have never had an accident, nor have I ever injured myself or others.
I attribute a lot of this to staying out the way of idiots in tin boxes, the rest to common sense and awareness.
For more info ask Boris Johnson why he wants cyclists to be able to turn left at red lights.
Or to see what real cyclists think have a read of this: http://www.urban75.n
et/vbulletin/showthr
ead.php?p=10016021
Living in the real world
says...
7:36pm Mon 14 Dec 09
BlackRocker wrote:Call you old fashioned?
I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with kayotic, hove. Call me old fashioned, but I find it hard to take seriously the comments of anyone who hasn't yet mastered basic spelling or English grammar. Did they miss out on Tony Bliar's promised "Education, education,education" ? How on earth do they manage to read the Argus?
Call you stupid: there is normally a space after a comer and why the question mark before your question?
People in "Glass" houses.......
Stu
says...
7:45pm Mon 14 Dec 09
Mrs Newcastle
says...
8:17pm Mon 14 Dec 09
worthinglogic
says...
8:49pm Mon 14 Dec 09
toldsloth wrote:Yesssss and then multiply that by the number of people on the bus, (ie. cars off the road) by an average of say, 40, which equals the equilvalent to all those cars doing 240 mpg. Easy to manipulate figures to further your agenda isn't it?
Mike D P wrote:average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.
voiceofthescoombe
says...
8:50pm Mon 14 Dec 09
on of those expensive nail guns from tool mart on lewis road and 3 hours and I can solve the problem of people parking in the the cycle lane.
please don't park in the cycle lane as being nailed to your steering wheel may hurt
Dee Zelastra
says...
9:28pm Mon 14 Dec 09
tonybee
says...
2:22am Tue 15 Dec 09
what makes u think the ignorant foul mouthed scum would ride on the road anyway ?
Could the Argus publish the names of
the Green woolly pullover no hopers who keep thinking up this****
S.T. Rewth
says...
4:15am Tue 15 Dec 09
DougM
says...
8:01am Tue 15 Dec 09
The biggest problem on the roads is stupid pillocks who fail to understand their responsibility as drivers of what are effectively lethal weapons. How many deaths caused by cyclists in the last 10 years? One. By bad driving? Minimum 15,000.
What we need is not cycle-trains, but re-education of all the useless, gormless, arrogant drivers who think that public roads are a public-funded playground just for them to use and no-one else. These people are costing us, the taxpayer, money, and should be made well aware of the fact that we subsidise their bone-idol and lethal ways.
the V.Large idiot
says...
8:34am Tue 15 Dec 09
kayotic wrote:how many s's ARE there in buses?
toldsloth wrote:I can't let Mike D P go through life thinking there are two esses in buses.Mike D P wrote: Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
kayotic
says...
9:10am Tue 15 Dec 09
lord Donald stokes
says...
10:38am Tue 15 Dec 09
davyboy wrote:Are you Roger Frenchs 'love child' by any chance?
mr french actually rides a bike to work most days, and only occasionally uses his car. he also uses the bus. as long as other road users are not inconvenienced by this idea, then why not? cyclists are an important part of this city, but not enough time is given over to them.
pancaker
says...
10:49am Tue 15 Dec 09
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
11:24am Tue 15 Dec 09
1 - How will a cycle train reduce the number of vehicle movements? It will admittedly reduce the SPEED of vehicle movements and thus will increase emissions. Not sure if that's exactly what the organisers had in mind.
2 - As others have said why ask Roger French? His thought process is understanbly simple: "Can we make money out of this? No. Therefore it is a bad idea." That is NOT a criticism of Mr French BTW, as an employee of a profit-driven private company that's exactly what is bosses want him to be thinking.
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
11:29am Tue 15 Dec 09
Heike
says...
12:35pm Tue 15 Dec 09
rkguarantee.org.uk/c
ycle-to-work-compani
es.php , you'll find Roger French's listed under 'private sector companies'). Brighton Council has also signed up to the same guarantee. Time to put your money where your mouth is! This means all those who think only nutters cycle to work should think again. Welcome to the 21st century. The bottom line is: Cycling needs to be made safer. Let's try the cycle train. What's there to lose? I am in danger of losing life and limb every day on the Lewes Road. Safety in numbers, I reckon.
richhow
says...
10:21pm Tue 15 Dec 09
Clare23
says...
12:16pm Wed 16 Dec 09
yorkie44
says...
2:20pm Wed 16 Dec 09
kayotic wrote:I suggest all these English "experts" consult a dictionary. The plural of bus is either buses or busses!
toldsloth wrote:I can't let Mike D P go through life thinking there are two esses in buses.Mike D P wrote: Its too green for Roger French as his company dosn't get any money from it! Now green busses less cars and more paying customers on busses always gets his backing.average MPG from one of Mr.French's "green" vehicles is 6mpg........
The cycle train is still a crazy idea though.
Variable
says...
6:43pm Wed 16 Dec 09
Andre Spooner
says...
2:25pm Thu 17 Dec 09
I am fully in favour of the cycle train! What is this city coming to? Where is the Real World! I love my horse.
Wow, my security word was "cycle-train". My word.
Andre Spooner
says...
2:25pm Thu 17 Dec 09
I am fully in favour of the cycle train! What is this city coming to? Where is the Real World! I love my horse.
Wow, my security word was "cycle-train". My word.
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
6:53pm Thu 17 Dec 09
richhow wrote:Indeed. However just because an idea is 'alternative' doesn't mean it's 'good'.
Something needs to be done about the city's rampant traffic problems and the mainstream councillors are not showing any vision on this - thank heavens there are some alternative ideas and inspiration aongst the community!
lee paul
says...
12:44pm Fri 18 Dec 09
mockduck
says...
8:02pm Mon 21 Dec 09
CliveA
says...
1:01pm Wed 23 Dec 09
You ask how a scheme like this could decrease emissions levels or traffic volumes.
This wasn't really explained in the original article, so your first question is perhaps a fair one.
While many people are committed cyclists, and many more are committed drivers, there are a significant number of folks in the middle who may be tempted to leave their cars at home and use their bikes, but who have certain doubts or worries about doing so.
If these people's needs can be addressed, and cycling made more feasible or attractive for them, then there is a potential reduction in levels of traffic and emissions. Air quality and road safety stand to improve as a result.
With this in mind, ideas like this 'cycle train' are proposed as things which may encourage more hesitant cyclists to give it a go.
Will it work? I don't know. One of the great things about riding a bike is the independence, and I don't think the idea of riding as part of a 'cycle train' reflects this. Mockduck makes a good related point.
The more people who are seen to cycle, the more others are encouraged to join them, as the 'safety in numbers' principle takes hold.
In my opinion, things that help are better secure cycle parking, more easily available cycle training, and more thorough enforcement of traffic laws relating to speed and mobile phone use - the safer the roads become, the more people will feel at ease on two wheels.
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
2:57pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Plus my original point still stands: once it sets off the cycle train will reduce traffic speed and will thus increase both fuel consumption and exhaust emissions. I know there's nothing that some cyclists like more than the sight of a load of irate motorists crawling along behind them, but there's a bigger picture that needs looking at here.
Hence on balance I think the scheme is flawed. However start a campaign to get cycles carried on trains again and I'll be right behind you!
CliveA
says...
9:17pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Aren't we missing the point here? Yes, a car may have different levels of efficiency and emissions at 50, 30 or 20 mph, but let's be frank, it's all fairly academic compared to the emissions of a car that's left at home.
Look at the long queues of cars that clog up town centres every day. Crawling slowly along, sometimes barely moving. It's not cyclists up ahead causing this congestion and pollution - it's the sheer volume of cars on the road.
That's why ideas to encourage more people onto bikes deserve to be given a chance.
You and I may have our doubts about whether or not the 'cycle train' is the best way to do this, but we may be wrong. This idea could give more people the confidence to ride their bikes, thereby reducing the numbers of cars clogging up the roads.
And as for trains, yes I agree, the restrictions on bike carriage are a problem. Various bodies are campaigning to get the train companies to change their policies, but this is a difficult task. But I think it's a separate issue. For the three miles between Falmer and central Brighton, a bike is a great way to get around.
New ideas need to be tried. If it doesn't work, it needn't continue.
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
8:50am Thu 24 Dec 09
Another factor why I don't think it's a particularly good idea is that people ('nervous cyclists' I think you called them initially) are still going to have to get from their homes to the 'station' to join the 'train' - that still might put people off. Also where will the 'station' be? You're going to need gathering point(s) for the train to assemble; these musn't block the roads or more importantly (for me) the pavements. (I walk to work and I'm a firm believer that pavements are for pedestrians!)
Anyway, I do agree with your last sentence that new ideas need to be tried and whilst I don't think this is a particularly good one if you can get it off the ground then fair play to you. Happy Christmas!
nodrog
says...
9:01pm Fri 25 Dec 09
Rita Snatch wrote:Completely wrong interpretation of the situation here.
Roger French believes this is a crazy idea....... and so do I.
BUT...... If cyclists are a problem along the Lewes Road up to Falmer, why not operate that Bendy Bus, but modified for bicycle transportation; one part for passengers and the other for the bikes?
It's not the cyclists that are the problem on Lewes Road, it's the cars.
The Lewes Road 'sustainable transport corridor' (Councils title for the Lewes Rd) has one of the highest levels of air pollution anywhere in the country. That is due entirely due to the amount of traffic which uses it.
A large proportion of that traffic originates in Brighton itself, and encouraging people to cycle to work or University (and it's surprising how many skint students seem to be able to run a car!) will obviously reduce the pollution levels.
It would also improve the safety for the cyclists themselves. There's safety in numbers remember.
I think it's a great idea. All I need now is a bike of my own, and a large amount of chain to stop it being pinched!
nodrog
says...
9:21pm Fri 25 Dec 09
Acker79 wrote:Again it's not a proposal aimed at improving the behaviour of a few bad cyclists, but at reducing the amount of cars using the Lewes Rd.
toldsloth wrote:Cyclists often *can't* use the cycle lane along the lewes road between the level and the gyrotary because cars are always parked there.
on reflection, I'd like to know exactly how many cyclists use Lewes Road compared to cars, buses, trucks etc. I'll bet its an infinitessimal amount yet they already have a cycle lane which half of them don't use.
Before you loonies kick off at me, I ride a bike and I drive a car. The only difference is that I get to see both sides of the story not just one through rose tinted cycling specs. If cyclists learned the meaning of a red light and agreed not to ride on the pavement (its meant for pedestrians guys) and perhaps wore some high vis and (God forbid) invested in some lights, any lights they might be treated a little better. I observe all of the above so why can't you? I pulled alongside a cyclist on Preston Road the other night and suggested that he might want to fit some lights as it was only my quick reactions that saved him from serious injury and what did I get back "**** off you moron" was the response. Enough said. The really galling thing is if he'd have hit me - and it would have been his fault as I was pulling out of a junction but he was almost invisible, I wold have got the blame. It would have been up to me to sue him to repair my vehicle yet he could claim off my insurance to fix his bike and head (if he still had it attached). Public liability insurance should be mandatory as should a basic proficiency test but of course that would "be an invasion of your freedom" wouldn't it.
Speaking as a cyclist (with lights, high vis clothing, helmet, an inclination to stop at red lights etc) I have to say this is a bad idea. Other than the pedestrians in the cycle lane along the sea front, the thing that annoys me most on the roads is the other cyclists that show no respect for the laws of the road.
Providing these cycle trains won't make them better cyclists, heck, most of those cyclists that cause trouble are the sort that wouldn't be interested in using a cycle train.
The cycle train idea is known to reduce the amount of accidents and injury to cyclists on roads, and it is fear of such accidents which keeps many in their cars, who would prefer (especially in the summer!) to cycle to work.
As the Lewes Road corridor is a known air pollution black-spot and also allowing that the actual average speed of a motor car using the corridor is less than that of a bicycle especially during busier times, it really makes sense to leave the car at home. If only it was safer for the bikes.
As for the insurance thing. It is extremely rare for cyclists to be compensated in a car-bike accident. Not unless the car driver can be shown to have been driving carelessly, and even then that the cyclist was not taking proper care themselves. In the situation you are talking about, it would certainly not apply.
It is much more likely that your insurance company will have to pay compensation if you hit a pedestrian, or are you calling for pedestrians to be forced to pay insurance to use our streets too?
Christmas Elf
says...
1:18pm Sat 26 Dec 09
Murgatroyd wrote:I completely agree. The worst and most dangerous part of the Lewes Road is from the Elm Grove traffic lights to the Vogue. There are ALWAYS cars parked in the cycle path. Morning and evening rush hours are a nightmare. Why don't the parking wardens or CSOs ever patrol this part of the Lewes Road? What are the wardens or CSOs paid for?
Every day I count the number of cars parked in the bike lane between the Level and Gyratory, as I take my life into my own hands cycling north. Every day it is over 10 - and sometimes as many as 20. Taxis, takeaway deliver drivers and lazy b*****ds who can't be bothered to use the loading bays provided and walk a few extra yards to the co-op and the cashpoint. If cyclists aren't using Lewes Road (which they are) it's because it's too bloody dangerous. Having said that, I don't know that this cycle train is the answer. Proper parking enforcement would be a start, followed by training for bus drivers to actually be bike-aware and not clip the corner of the bike lane where the road narrows.
Finally, why whenever the subject of cycling comes up, do the reactionary ol gits on here start banging on about the minority of irresponsible cyclists - as if the problems that they create mean that the rest of us don't deserve to be safe. Get out of your tin boxes, get on 2 wheels and see how you get on on Lewes Road fatties
caeos
says...
2:09pm Sat 26 Dec 09
just as long as duncan blink-something doesnt confuse this bike train with his naked bike ride thing.
as for 2 abreast cycling
http://uk.answers.ya
hoo.com/question/ind
ex?qid=2008071511353
2AAY58e1
http://cyclinginfo.c
o.uk/blog/
and finally read http://www.direct.go
v.uk/en/TravelAndTra
nsport/Highwaycode/D
G_069837 sect 66, 68 in realtion to the actually road traffic act
Mr Lahey
says...
11:54am Wed 30 Dec 09
grabur
says...
2:56pm Wed 6 Jan 10
The narrowing of the Lewes Road has made cycling more dangerous. Why not put in a dedicated cycle lane instead - complete ineptitude. It's obviously the only way out to the universities.
The section of track after Coldean lane could do with a makeover too.
More radically, rip out the Gyratory, or add a cycle lane next to the railway line.
Old Ale Man
says...
8:18pm Thu 7 Jan 10
Any of you that use that excuse may find the opposite is true.
Old Ale Man
says...
8:29pm Thu 7 Jan 10
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Rita Snatch says...
1:25pm Mon 14 Dec 09
BUT...... If cyclists are a problem along the Lewes Road up to Falmer, why not operate that Bendy Bus, but modified for bicycle transportation; one part for passengers and the other for the bikes?