Orlandi wants to see Vicente back

Vicente has made one brief Championship appearance this season

Vicente has made one brief Championship appearance this season

First published in Albion by , Chief sports reporter

Andrea Orlandi is desperate for the chance to play alongside Vicente – and give an extra boost to Albion’s Spanish Armada.

The Seagulls had four Spaniards on the pitch together for the first time at Wolves on Saturday when Inigo Calderon replaced the injured Wayne Bridge.

Calderon joined Orlandi, Bruno and David in the 3-3 draw at Molineux but Vicente has only played for eight minutes in the Championship this season due to a thigh tendon injury.

Former Barcelona midfielder Orlandi, signed from Swansea in August, told The Argus: “I said to my missus when I signed here I really wanted to play with him, because he is a big player.

“He was really big in Spain when he was at Valencia, one of the main men. I have always followed him, because I really liked the way he played.

“I haven’t even been able to train with him. To have him here and not be able to play with him is a bit frustrating.

“I really hope he sorts his problems out and he is going to help us soon. If we had him I think the quality of the team would go up a lot and it would definitely help us to try to push for promotion.”

Vicente has not kicked a ball for Albion since appearing as a late substitute in the first home game of the season against Cardiff at The Amex back in August but Orlandi has revealed the ex-Spanish international is still in good spirits.

He said: “We get on really well, the Spanish lads, with everyone. It’s a nice group and he (Vicente) is really humble. It is quite easy to speak to him and I enjoy it, because he is a funny guy.”

Orlandi is hoping to retain his place at Huddersfield on Saturday following his first 90 minutes at Wolves in nearly two years.

Albion are at Worthing tonight in the second round of the Sussex Senior Cup (7.45pm).

Comments (43)

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10:06am Wed 14 Nov 12

Clean Sheet says...

Thought we were due another non story on Vicente. I too want to see him back in a Seagulls shirt, doing the business for the team.
Thought we were due another non story on Vicente. I too want to see him back in a Seagulls shirt, doing the business for the team. Clean Sheet
  • Score: 0

10:29am Wed 14 Nov 12

tug509 says...

If being part of a championship team with 5 Spanish compadre`s on the pitch is`nt enough incentive to play,nothing will be. But would love to see it. UTA
If being part of a championship team with 5 Spanish compadre`s on the pitch is`nt enough incentive to play,nothing will be. But would love to see it. UTA tug509
  • Score: 0

10:33am Wed 14 Nov 12

StevieD says...

He didn't want to come back this season, he obviously doesn't want to play for the seagulls and all the lame(excuse the pun) excuses about injuries are wearing a bit thin. Concentrate on the players that are doing it for the team and get shot of the dead wood however good a player they once were.
He didn't want to come back this season, he obviously doesn't want to play for the seagulls and all the lame(excuse the pun) excuses about injuries are wearing a bit thin. Concentrate on the players that are doing it for the team and get shot of the dead wood however good a player they once were. StevieD
  • Score: 0

10:38am Wed 14 Nov 12

pwlr1966 says...

Argus really!!! the Spanish Armada failed....is that what you are saying about our Albion?
Argus really!!! the Spanish Armada failed....is that what you are saying about our Albion? pwlr1966
  • Score: 0

10:40am Wed 14 Nov 12

GosportGull says...

It would be exciting to see but will it ever happen ...hopefully he will prove us all wrong and be the player he was last season ... I loved watching his passing,forward runs , ball control and his goals too ! He inspired the team ..be good to see more of the same .. Im thinking Christmas at the earliest though ... GG
It would be exciting to see but will it ever happen ...hopefully he will prove us all wrong and be the player he was last season ... I loved watching his passing,forward runs , ball control and his goals too ! He inspired the team ..be good to see more of the same .. Im thinking Christmas at the earliest though ... GG GosportGull
  • Score: 0

10:52am Wed 14 Nov 12

The Real Ryfish says...

Clean Sheet wrote:
Thought we were due another non story on Vicente. I too want to see him back in a Seagulls shirt, doing the business for the team.
Hardly a 'non-story' - he says that Vicente is in good spirits. That alone is news worth knowing. At least he's not moping around and not interacting with anyone.
[quote][p][bold]Clean Sheet[/bold] wrote: Thought we were due another non story on Vicente. I too want to see him back in a Seagulls shirt, doing the business for the team.[/p][/quote]Hardly a 'non-story' - he says that Vicente is in good spirits. That alone is news worth knowing. At least he's not moping around and not interacting with anyone. The Real Ryfish
  • Score: 0

11:18am Wed 14 Nov 12

JollyRoger says...

Him and several thousand fans!
Him and several thousand fans! JollyRoger
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Wed 14 Nov 12

kentseagull says...

I wonder if he suffers from depression....It doesn't sound physical.
I wonder if he suffers from depression....It doesn't sound physical. kentseagull
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Far gull says...

Ditto jolly roger. Andrea how we all would love him to be playing. Blooming e.u rules on male paternity leave. Etc :-). Perhaps we need to draw chelsea or man u in the cup bet that might light a quicker recovery.
Ditto jolly roger. Andrea how we all would love him to be playing. Blooming e.u rules on male paternity leave. Etc :-). Perhaps we need to draw chelsea or man u in the cup bet that might light a quicker recovery. Far gull
  • Score: 0

12:40pm Wed 14 Nov 12

pjwilk says...

Afraid Vicente is like Owen ,i see he is injured again after his one game.So glad we did not buy him.But you never know miracles do happen.
Afraid Vicente is like Owen ,i see he is injured again after his one game.So glad we did not buy him.But you never know miracles do happen. pjwilk
  • Score: 0

1:13pm Wed 14 Nov 12

the taffster says...

release the guy and use the wages to pay for a player whos going to play more than one game a season.enigma when hes playing.but overall a liablity.
release the guy and use the wages to pay for a player whos going to play more than one game a season.enigma when hes playing.but overall a liablity. the taffster
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Wed 14 Nov 12

pablobrowno says...

StevieD wrote:
He didn't want to come back this season, he obviously doesn't want to play for the seagulls and all the lame(excuse the pun) excuses about injuries are wearing a bit thin. Concentrate on the players that are doing it for the team and get shot of the dead wood however good a player they once were.
What if he's actually injured?
[quote][p][bold]StevieD[/bold] wrote: He didn't want to come back this season, he obviously doesn't want to play for the seagulls and all the lame(excuse the pun) excuses about injuries are wearing a bit thin. Concentrate on the players that are doing it for the team and get shot of the dead wood however good a player they once were.[/p][/quote]What if he's actually injured? pablobrowno
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Wed 14 Nov 12

VegasSeagull says...

I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Poplar Seagull says...

I saw Vicente on Saturday night with most of the other Albion players hitting the bars in Brighton, so he is still around at least!

He still didn't look that happy though!
I saw Vicente on Saturday night with most of the other Albion players hitting the bars in Brighton, so he is still around at least! He still didn't look that happy though! Poplar Seagull
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Wed 14 Nov 12

tug509 says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
PLEASE Vegas,FOOTBALL,The great game,The reason for life,but not soccer!!!!...UTA
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]PLEASE Vegas,FOOTBALL,The great game,The reason for life,but not soccer!!!!...UTA tug509
  • Score: 0

1:55pm Wed 14 Nov 12

VegasSeagull says...

Oooops, sorry Tug.
Oooops, sorry Tug. VegasSeagull
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Seagull83 says...

There's more chance of me coming home to find Shakira tucked up in my bed tonight wearing nothing but a negligee than us seeing Vicente in an Albion shirt again.
There's more chance of me coming home to find Shakira tucked up in my bed tonight wearing nothing but a negligee than us seeing Vicente in an Albion shirt again. Seagull83
  • Score: 0

2:16pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sheil says...

Poplar, were these reserves you saw in bars in Brighton? If not are you a wind up merchant as they were far away from Brighton on their way back from Wolves!
Poplar, were these reserves you saw in bars in Brighton? If not are you a wind up merchant as they were far away from Brighton on their way back from Wolves! Sheil
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Wed 14 Nov 12

seagullsays says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
I'm pretty sure there was a comment from Charlie Oatway recently that he expected Vicente back playing about Christmas time. I won't be holding my breath though. More chance of Shakira coming down my chimney on Christmas morning in a skimpy negligee, after she's got bored of Seagull83!
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]I'm pretty sure there was a comment from Charlie Oatway recently that he expected Vicente back playing about Christmas time. I won't be holding my breath though. More chance of Shakira coming down my chimney on Christmas morning in a skimpy negligee, after she's got bored of Seagull83! seagullsays
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Wed 14 Nov 12

mikeygit says...

Vegas agree entirely. I do feel that the guy MAY have injury problems---that is why Valencia got fed up with him and it seems ironic that we cannot afford that elusive 'striker' but we are paying--what I assume--is fairly high wages for someone who has only played a few minutes FOOTBALL for us this season. We have a right, as you say, to a full explanation as what is going on. We have had updates on Elphick and Hoskins so why not one of our star players Vicente, by hiding any news it always raises suspicions. Yes it is right, it was said that 'it was hoped' that he would be OK for Christmas--but that is fast approaching and he will have had to play matches in the 'reserves' to get match fitness and then fight for his place in the 'first team'. Hate to say it and I hope I am wrong---but it ain't going to happen!!!
Vegas agree entirely. I do feel that the guy MAY have injury problems---that is why Valencia got fed up with him and it seems ironic that we cannot afford that elusive 'striker' but we are paying--what I assume--is fairly high wages for someone who has only played a few minutes FOOTBALL for us this season. We have a right, as you say, to a full explanation as what is going on. We have had updates on Elphick and Hoskins so why not one of our star players Vicente, by hiding any news it always raises suspicions. Yes it is right, it was said that 'it was hoped' that he would be OK for Christmas--but that is fast approaching and he will have had to play matches in the 'reserves' to get match fitness and then fight for his place in the 'first team'. Hate to say it and I hope I am wrong---but it ain't going to happen!!! mikeygit
  • Score: 0

3:21pm Wed 14 Nov 12

wiseman of hove says...

For whatever reason, the club do not wish to provide a definitive update on the Vicente injury saga. That is clearly very disappointing and also puzzling when fans are so keen to see him in action again. However, I am fairly sanguine with the situation because I am confident that Orlandi will fill the void. He needs full games under his belt to build his stamina etc. Look how Will has benefited from successive full games.
For whatever reason, the club do not wish to provide a definitive update on the Vicente injury saga. That is clearly very disappointing and also puzzling when fans are so keen to see him in action again. However, I am fairly sanguine with the situation because I am confident that Orlandi will fill the void. He needs full games under his belt to build his stamina etc. Look how Will has benefited from successive full games. wiseman of hove
  • Score: 0

3:23pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Freeloaders says...

VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.
[quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again. Freeloaders
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Wed 14 Nov 12

VegasSeagull says...

Mikey, I am not so sure that he wil have to, 'fight for his place,' I would imagine if fit he is a shoe in for selection. I think it certain that he would have some reserve playing time, match fitness being the issue, if thta happens we can only play that he doesn't get chopped down by a ill timed tackle that so often happens with younger players.

We were told of his possible return around Christmas time and if that is correct we can only assume that he should be back in training soon, let's hope so.

We have not seen any direct interviews with Vicente, such as those we got with Elphik, do you think that the club has gagged him for some reason, I can't think why they would.

TO THE ARGUS.

Would you please tell us, have you tried to interview Vicente? If no, why not, if yes, then what happened because we have not seen the article? Please respond Andy.

. .
Mikey, I am not so sure that he wil have to, 'fight for his place,' I would imagine if fit he is a shoe in for selection. I think it certain that he would have some reserve playing time, match fitness being the issue, if thta happens we can only play that he doesn't get chopped down by a ill timed tackle that so often happens with younger players. We were told of his possible return around Christmas time and if that is correct we can only assume that he should be back in training soon, let's hope so. We have not seen any direct interviews with Vicente, such as those we got with Elphik, do you think that the club has gagged him for some reason, I can't think why they would. TO THE ARGUS. Would you please tell us, have you tried to interview Vicente? If no, why not, if yes, then what happened because we have not seen the article? Please respond Andy. . . VegasSeagull
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Wed 14 Nov 12

WisdomSpeaks says...

Freeloaders wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.
Interesting this isn't the first post which talks about his demeanor. I love this guy as a player. Always got me off my seat - but there has always been a 'moody' dark energy about him.

I never give up on people and whether he goes or stays he always takes Vicente with him. That's what I find frustrating. I sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy and if I had such a gifted person in my employ I think I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right - that's where most problems reside. I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions'.

Whatever, I for one wish him every good in his life. He is a true artist.
[quote][p][bold]Freeloaders[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.[/p][/quote]Interesting this isn't the first post which talks about his demeanor. I love this guy as a player. Always got me off my seat - but there has always been a 'moody' dark energy about him. I never give up on people and whether he goes or stays he always takes Vicente with him. That's what I find frustrating. I sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy and if I had such a gifted person in my employ I think I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right - that's where most problems reside. I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions'. Whatever, I for one wish him every good in his life. He is a true artist. WisdomSpeaks
  • Score: 0

3:49pm Wed 14 Nov 12

The Real Ryfish says...

There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate.


Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance.


I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem.
There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate. Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance. I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem. The Real Ryfish
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Wed 14 Nov 12

wiseman of hove says...

The Real Ryfish wrote:
There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate.


Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance.


I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem.
I think you make several valid points. Also, you have provided more of a clear update on Vicente's injury than the club.
[quote][p][bold]The Real Ryfish[/bold] wrote: There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate. Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance. I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem.[/p][/quote]I think you make several valid points. Also, you have provided more of a clear update on Vicente's injury than the club. wiseman of hove
  • Score: 0

4:01pm Wed 14 Nov 12

markymark03 says...

This is all very interesting stuff but who is wearing a shower cap in the back ground? Is it the streamline Cech look?
This is all very interesting stuff but who is wearing a shower cap in the back ground? Is it the streamline Cech look? markymark03
  • Score: 0

4:04pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Hovite says...

WisdomSpeaks wrote:
Freeloaders wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.
Interesting this isn't the first post which talks about his demeanor. I love this guy as a player. Always got me off my seat - but there has always been a 'moody' dark energy about him.

I never give up on people and whether he goes or stays he always takes Vicente with him. That's what I find frustrating. I sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy and if I had such a gifted person in my employ I think I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right - that's where most problems reside. I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions'.

Whatever, I for one wish him every good in his life. He is a true artist.
Good try,

Trying to suggest there is a sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy.

I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right.

I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions.

But I wish the guy the best of luck.

The power of suggestion lol
[quote][p][bold]WisdomSpeaks[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Freeloaders[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.[/p][/quote]Interesting this isn't the first post which talks about his demeanor. I love this guy as a player. Always got me off my seat - but there has always been a 'moody' dark energy about him. I never give up on people and whether he goes or stays he always takes Vicente with him. That's what I find frustrating. I sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy and if I had such a gifted person in my employ I think I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right - that's where most problems reside. I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions'. Whatever, I for one wish him every good in his life. He is a true artist.[/p][/quote]Good try, Trying to suggest there is a sense there is something brewing deep inside this guy. I'd do everything possible to get his MIND right. I wonder if they've tried NLP, EFT, hypnotherapy and all the other modern available skills which have had incredible success in healing all sorts of 'conditions. But I wish the guy the best of luck. The power of suggestion lol Hovite
  • Score: 0

4:10pm Wed 14 Nov 12

The Real Ryfish says...

I'd try proper science first to fix Vicente before using pseudo-scientific NLP and EFT.
I'd try proper science first to fix Vicente before using pseudo-scientific NLP and EFT. The Real Ryfish
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Falmer Wizard says...

As supporters we expect to be advised re team and players and are except for Vicente,he had similar problems at his previous club and no doubt this was the reason we were able to sign him.
As supporters we expect to be advised re team and players and are except for Vicente,he had similar problems at his previous club and no doubt this was the reason we were able to sign him. Falmer Wizard
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Wed 14 Nov 12

The Real Ryfish says...

Falmer Wizard wrote:
As supporters we expect to be advised re team and players and are except for Vicente,he had similar problems at his previous club and no doubt this was the reason we were able to sign him.
You can expect all you like, but that doesn't make it a right.

If he was fully fit then (a) no-one would even bother mentioning Zaha as Vicente would be obviously the best player in the division, but also (b) as you rightly say we wouldn't have been blessed with his sporadic appearances in any case.
[quote][p][bold]Falmer Wizard[/bold] wrote: As supporters we expect to be advised re team and players and are except for Vicente,he had similar problems at his previous club and no doubt this was the reason we were able to sign him.[/p][/quote]You can expect all you like, but that doesn't make it a right. If he was fully fit then (a) no-one would even bother mentioning Zaha as Vicente would be obviously the best player in the division, but also (b) as you rightly say we wouldn't have been blessed with his sporadic appearances in any case. The Real Ryfish
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Baldseagull says...

Freeloaders wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.
Was this just after your chat with Craig Noone on the pier?
I would stop stalking the squad before you get to El-Abd if I were you.
[quote][p][bold]Freeloaders[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]The best post in the history of the world.Like i said a few back now i saw him shopping in Sainsburys in west Hove with his wife.They did stop for a chat both very nice people,but his wife said more that he did.All i can say he was walking ok,but he really did not look a happy man,but saying that he did smile when i said how good he was.Lets be honest like Owen if he comes back he will play maybe 2 or 3 games then be out again.[/p][/quote]Was this just after your chat with Craig Noone on the pier? I would stop stalking the squad before you get to El-Abd if I were you. Baldseagull
  • Score: 0

4:41pm Wed 14 Nov 12

dave from bexill says...

The Vicente saga rolls on. I understood that he's expected to be fit around Christmas time. I hope so, but like others, I'm not holding my breath. It's becoming something of a thriller,where different (almost conspiracy) theories abound. We'll have to wait and see and even though I think he's a brilliant player, unlike some I just don't worry about the situation and find it all a bit boring now and surprised that the subject keeps getting brought up by posters and now players, without anything new actually being said.Until some factual statement comes out of the club, why not give it a rest, and even if such news if forthcoming, there is so much near paranoia surrounding this particular player, like I for one have never seen before, then it's unlikely it will be believed anyway.
The Vicente saga rolls on. I understood that he's expected to be fit around Christmas time. I hope so, but like others, I'm not holding my breath. It's becoming something of a thriller,where different (almost conspiracy) theories abound. We'll have to wait and see and even though I think he's a brilliant player, unlike some I just don't worry about the situation and find it all a bit boring now and surprised that the subject keeps getting brought up by posters and now players, without anything new actually being said.Until some factual statement comes out of the club, why not give it a rest, and even if such news if forthcoming, there is so much near paranoia surrounding this particular player, like I for one have never seen before, then it's unlikely it will be believed anyway. dave from bexill
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Ringmer Rich says...

He'll be back.
He'll be back. Ringmer Rich
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Yogi says...

Orlandi says he hasn't trained with him yet so can't see him being available for a month at least.
Orlandi says he hasn't trained with him yet so can't see him being available for a month at least. Yogi
  • Score: 0

4:56pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Hovite says...

One man doesn't make the team, at least it shouldn’t do. Gus is probably more concerned about blending the new players in and giving them match time.

So it is convenient to let him fully recover, there is no rush on the clubs part, no mental illness and no conspiracy.

If I were the manager, I would only want him fully fit.
One man doesn't make the team, at least it shouldn’t do. Gus is probably more concerned about blending the new players in and giving them match time. So it is convenient to let him fully recover, there is no rush on the clubs part, no mental illness and no conspiracy. If I were the manager, I would only want him fully fit. Hovite
  • Score: 0

4:58pm Wed 14 Nov 12

bruce beckett says...

Wasn't the Spanish Armada sunk without trace? A bit like Vicente.

What the Argus need to do is conduct a Spanish Inquisition and find out exactly what is wrong with The Dagger.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Wasn't the Spanish Armada sunk without trace? A bit like Vicente. What the Argus need to do is conduct a Spanish Inquisition and find out exactly what is wrong with The Dagger. NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition. bruce beckett
  • Score: 0

5:01pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Rhodes Seagull says...

We would all like to see him back but we would also like to win the lottery to buy the extra STRIKER that we seem to need or we could cut him loose and spend his wages on the extra STRIKER!!!!
We would all like to see him back but we would also like to win the lottery to buy the extra STRIKER that we seem to need or we could cut him loose and spend his wages on the extra STRIKER!!!! Rhodes Seagull
  • Score: 0

8:42pm Wed 14 Nov 12

BHA Dave says...

Nothing to add to this really, but was thinking the interview was slightly personal at points. All this talk around wanting to play with Vicente and him being big back in spain. And then comes the frustration.....
Nothing to add to this really, but was thinking the interview was slightly personal at points. All this talk around wanting to play with Vicente and him being big back in spain. And then comes the frustration..... BHA Dave
  • Score: 0

9:37pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Claude Back says...

The Real Ryfish wrote:
There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate.


Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance.


I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem.
Ryfish, you write far too much sense to be posting on here.
[quote][p][bold]The Real Ryfish[/bold] wrote: There is such a sense of entitlement on here! No-one owes us ANYTHING. You pay for your ticket, you watch the game, you come home - that is the transaction over. You have what you paid for and are owed nothing else. You are not 'paying their wages', you are paying a tiny, tiny fraction of one player's hourly rate. Is it not just possible that the reason there is not a lot of proper news coming out about Vicente is that there is not a lot to say? He has a deep-seated groin injury that is taking a long time to clear up. He is not unique in that aspect, and if he was one of our lesser lights then there would be such a conspiracy theory as to his continued non-appearance. I also very much doubt that his salary is the cause of our not purchasing a striker (that we may or may not actually need). The likely reason is that there are very few that will make a decent impression that are not already at either one of our rivals or already in the Prem.[/p][/quote]Ryfish, you write far too much sense to be posting on here. Claude Back
  • Score: 0

10:57pm Wed 14 Nov 12

oksouthstander says...

Vicente will wear an Albion Shirt when fit and able to perform to his own high standards as decreed by Gus in whom we trust.
Vicente will wear an Albion Shirt when fit and able to perform to his own high standards as decreed by Gus in whom we trust. oksouthstander
  • Score: 0

11:14am Thu 15 Nov 12

the taffster says...

seagullsays wrote:
VegasSeagull wrote:
I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation.

The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer.

If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too.

Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when?

If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente.
Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.
I'm pretty sure there was a comment from Charlie Oatway recently that he expected Vicente back playing about Christmas time. I won't be holding my breath though. More chance of Shakira coming down my chimney on Christmas morning in a skimpy negligee, after she's got bored of Seagull83!
shakira is about 6m onths pregnant,not much chance of her fitting down anyones chimney.shakira shakira.
[quote][p][bold]seagullsays[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]VegasSeagull[/bold] wrote: I wonder if the Argus has any investigative reporters if so, why not set them to work on the Vicente situation. The club is telling us nothing, or nothing of note. Vicente is saying nothing. The players are saying nothing, other than things such as what is contained in this article. If the fans are being conned by the club we should know about it. If the club is being conned by Vicente we should know about it. The collective known as th, 'fans,' pay everyone's wages, it is they that pay the Albion's bills, they have a right to be told a difinitive answer. If it is all about a serious injury, if there is light at the end of the tunnel them tell us. If they guy is simply sitting out the term of his contract for what ever reason then tell us that too. Vicente is top class we all know that. Brighton are better with him than without him, we know that too. We know all the positive things about Vicente, now we just need to know the answer to the question and that being, will he or won't he play again for us and if so, when? If you think about it we had more info on Elphik's injury and recovery and Elphik, with all due respect, aint no Vicente. Some might say that we don't have a, 'right,' to know but I would argue that we do. Stars of the stage and screen, music and sport have a right to privacy with regard to their personal lives but their professional lives are public. I have no interest in his private life I just want to know about his soccor life and if it's a private issue keeping him out, then let the guy go and allow him some peace and quiet.[/p][/quote]I'm pretty sure there was a comment from Charlie Oatway recently that he expected Vicente back playing about Christmas time. I won't be holding my breath though. More chance of Shakira coming down my chimney on Christmas morning in a skimpy negligee, after she's got bored of Seagull83![/p][/quote]shakira is about 6m onths pregnant,not much chance of her fitting down anyones chimney.shakira shakira. the taffster
  • Score: 0

11:19am Thu 15 Nov 12

the taffster says...

get rid of vicente and sign shakira,(after shes dropped the kid),at least shes fit.
get rid of vicente and sign shakira,(after shes dropped the kid),at least shes fit. the taffster
  • Score: 0

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